WHAT CAN'T YOU TALK ABOUT IN SCHOOLS?

SURPRISING STRENGTH FROM A SURPRISE GOVERNOR, AND MORE WORKERS WANT TO WEAR THE UNION LABEL.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED THIS WEEK BY KRISTI ANDERSEN FROM THE MAXWELL SCHOOL AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

THE FLORIDA LEGISLATURE THIS WEEK PASSED A BILL THAT PROHIBITS DISCUSSION OF SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND GENDER IDENTITY IN SCHOOLS.

THE BILL BANS TALKING ABOUT THESE ISSUES PRIOR TO 4TH GRADE, AND LIMITS IT TO AGE-APPROPRIATE DISCUSSIONS FOR OLDER STUDENTS.

IT ALSO ALLOWS PARENTS TO SUE SCHOOLS DISTRICTS AND TEACHERS FOR DAMAGES IF THE LAW IS BROKEN.

OTHER STATES ARE NOW CONSIDERING SIMILAR BILLS.

LUKE, THIS IS A REASONABLE APPROACH TO A DIFFICULT TOPIC?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK THERE ARE TWO ISSUES TO CONSIDER IN MAKING SENSE OF THIS.

THE FIRST ONE IS CIVIL RIGHTS.

SO TITLE IX CURRENTLY DOES PROTECT STUDENTS IN REGARD TO SEXUAL ORIENTATION AND GENDER IDENTITY.

THIS STATE LAW MAY RUN AFOUL OF THAT.

THE SECOND CONSIDERATION IS EDUCATION.

WHO SHOULD MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT CURRICULUM AND WHAT SHOULD THOSE DECISIONS BE?

AND THAT ISSUE IS A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT.

I THINK THAT TRANS GENDER CHILDREN ARE IN A VERY CHALLENGING SPOT AS ARE THEIR PARENTS TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF THE VARIETY OF SOCIAL STIGMA, PERSONAL JOURNEY AND NOW LEGAL CHALLENGES THAT THEY FACE.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S BEST IF STATE GOVERNMENT TO PROHIBIT CERTAIN TYPES OF DISCUSSION.

I THINK IT'S BETTER FOR LOCALITIES TO SORT OUT.

; PARTICULARLY IF THE STATE LAWS ARE COMING IN A DISCRIMINATORY FASHION.

>> I THINK THIS IS REALLY ALSO JUST PART OF THIS ANTI-TEACHER OR DISTRUST OF TEACHERS THAT I FIND REALLY DISTURBING.

I WOULD THINK THAT MOST PARENTS WOULD-- I WOULD HOPE MOST PARENTS WOULD TRUST THEIR K-3 TEACHERS TO TALK APPROPRIATELY TO THE STUDENTS ABOUT WHATEVER COMES UP: THERE ARE WONDERFUL BOOKS, FOR EXAMPLE, NOW, MANY MORE THAN THEY USED TO BE.

I SEE MY GRANDCHILDREN READING LIBRARY BOOKS ONE CONVENTIONAL FAMILIES OF VARIOUS SORTS AND THAT ALLOWS THEM TO ASK QUESTIONS AND ALLOWS THEIR PARENTS TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT THE RANGE OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE THAT ARE OUT THERE AND I WOULD TRUST TEACHERS-- ONE THING THIS MIGHT MEAN THAT THOSE KINDS OF BOOKS WOULD BE BASICALLY BANNED IN FLORIDA SCHOOLS.

>> FOR REALLY YOUNG CHILDREN, I MEAN DOO DO THEY-- >> NO.

MY GRANDCHILDREN KNOW THAT GOOD FRIEND OF THEIR PARENTS ARE A GAY TWO GAY WOMEN.

THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THEY'RE LIVING IN A WAY THAT-- THEY'RE MARRIED.

MY GRANDCHILDREN WERE IN THEIR WEDDING, IN FACT.

THEY UNDERSTAND THAT.

THAT'S FINE AND THEY ARE GROWING UP WITH THAT AND I DON'T SEE ANY REASON THEY SHOULDN'T GROW UP WITH THAT.

CERTAINLY FINDING THIS OUT LATER WHEN YOU DIDN'T KNOW THIS OR THESE THINGS WERE SUPPRESSED IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.

>> PART OF MY CONCERN IS AND I THINK IT'S WONDERFUL THAT YOU AND YOUR FAMILY ARE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

BUT MANY PEOPLE COME AT THIS FROM A RELIGIOUS PERSPECTIVE AND PART OF THEIR CONCERN IS THAT YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THEIR CHILDREN GETTING A PERSPECTIVE THAT IS VERY SECULAR IN NATURE, THAT MAY RUN COUNTER TO WHAT THEY WANT THEIR CHILDREN TO LEARN AND SO THEN YOU HAVE A CHILD, UNDER, BASICALLY THE AGE OF WHAT WOULD THAT BE, 10, TRYING ON FIGURE OUT, OKAY.

WHO IS RIGHT?

ARE MOM AND DAD RIGHT?

IS THE BIBLE RIGHT OR IS THE SCHOOL RIGHT?

AND MANY TIMES WHEN THESE THINGS ARE BEING CAUGHT WE KNOW THAT WHAT IS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN MOST SCHOOLS IS THAT A NOTE IS SUPPOSED TO BE SENT HOME EXPLAINING THAT THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO BE CAUGHT, BUT OFTEN, YOU KNOW, KIDS BEING KIDS, DO THE PARENTS SEE IT IN TIME ENOUGH TO REACT TO IT.

YOU KNOW, IS IT SET UP IN SUCH A WAY THAT A PARENT WHO DOES OPPOSE IT HAS ANOTHER OPTION OTHER THAN THEIR CHILD BEING TAUGHT IT.

SO IN THAT SENSE, I DO UNDERSTAND THE PARENTAL CONCERNS.

SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT PARENTS WANT TO SOMEHOW SUPPRESS INFORMATION.

THEY WANT TO HAVE CONTROL OVER THE INFORMATION, AND THEY WANT TO BE PREPARED FOR WHAT ARE OFTEN VERY DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS WITH ABOUT THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE, THIS IS WHAT, FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, THE BIBLE SAYS.

THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE LEARNING IN SCHOOL.

I THINK THE OTHER THING HERE IS THE NOTION THAT WE CAN ALWAYS TRUST TEACHERS TO PREVENT SOMETHING IN A WAY THAT IS NEUTRAL.

I LO I WOULD LOVE TO SAY THAT ALWAYS HAPPENS BUT IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY.

THAT'S ALSO THE OTHER CONCERN HERE.

NOW ON THE FLIP SIDE OF IT, THIS IS CLEARLY A VERY POLITICAL MOVE.

AND THIS IS DESIGNED TO SPEAK TO A VERY CLEAR REPUBLICAN BASE.

>> WELL, DeSANTIS, FOR EXAMPLE, OR HIS PRESS SECRETARY, ACCUSED DEMOCRATS OF BEING OPPOSED TO THIS BECAUSE THEY'RE GROOMING CHILDREN TO BE GAY.

>> SO THAT'S REALLY OVER THE TOP.

>> I WOULD SAY.

>> THIS DISCUSSION WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT VERY YOUNG CHILDREN BUT THIS ALSO APPLIES TO NOT A TOTAL BAN BUT OLDER CHILDREN, LIMITING THOSE DISCUSSIONS AND INFORM IS PARENTS.

WHAT ABOUT THAT IDEA?

IF THE KID IS A TEENAGER OR 16 YEARS OLD AND THEIR PARENTS MAY NOT KNOW WHAT THEY'RE EXPERIENCING OR THINKING ABOUT.

SHOULD THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE INFORMED?

>> I THINK SO.

I THINK TARA'S POINT IS A GOOD ONE IN TERMS OF WHERE PARENTS ARE COMING FROM AND THERE IS A LOT OF DISTRUST FOR ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE THESE DAYS, INCLUDING TEACHERS, SOME OF WHICH IS MERIT AND I BELIEVE.

I THINK IT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CONVERSATIONS THAT'S HAPPEN TO COME UP AND WHAT IS IN THE CURRICULUM.

I AGREE WITH YOU IN TERMS OF WHAT IS IN THE CURRICULUM BUT I KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE CHILDREN THAT ARE FIVE, SIX YEARS OLD THEY WANT TO DRESS DIFFERENTLY.

THEY WANT TO CUT THEIR HAIR DIFFERENTLY.

THEY WANT TO BE CALLED BY A DIFFERENT NAME THAT'S NOT THEIR BIRTH NAME.

AND WHEN A CHILD LIKE THAT ENTERS A CLASSROOM AND YOU ARE A TEACHER AND STATE LAW SAYS I'M SORRY, I CAN'T LEGALLY TALK ABOUT THIS OR A DISTRICT MIGHT GET SUED, I DON'T THINK THAT SERVES THE TEACHERS WELL OR THE CHILD WELL AND THAT'S A MAJOR CONCERN I HAVE.

>> YOU PUT THAT VERY WELL.

I THINK THAT'S A GOOD WAY TO THINK ABOUT HOW MUCH CONTROL THE TEACHERS HAVE AND HOW MUCH CONTROL THE STATE SHOULD HAVE OVER WHAT GOES ON.

>> YOU BROUGHT UP THE POSSIBILITY OF BEING SUED.

SO WHAT ABOUT THAT?

WHAT IS THE IMPLICATION FOR TEACHING IN GENERAL IF A TEACHER IN A DISTRICT CAN BE IN A DISTRICT BUT A TEACHER CAN BE SUED FOR DAMAGES?

THAT MAY APPLY AND HERE IT IS THAT PARTICULAR LAW BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT MIGHT OPEN UP ADDITIONAL PROBLEMS.

>> THAT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM WITH THIS LAW IS THAT IF A TEACHER IS FOLLOWING THE STATE CURRICULUM, THEN THE TEACHER SHOULD NOT BE SUED FOR DOING THEIR JOB.

IT PUTS THE TEACHER SQUARELY IN THE MIDDLE.

THE SCHOOL BOARD SAYS TEACH THIS.

THE EACH DOES THAT AND THEN IS SUED.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IF THIS IS A CASE WHERE YOU HAVE A TEACHER, THERE IS A LOCAL CURRICULUM THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE THE TEACHER TEACHES THIS BUT THE TEACHER MAKES THE DECISION WELL I NEED TO RESPOND TO THE SITUATION AT HAND, THAT BECOMES A LITTLE DICIER BECAUSE THEN THE TEACHER IS GOING BEYOND WHAT THE CURRICULUM REQUIRES AND/OR WHAT THE STATE REQUIRES.

>> AND YOUR EARLIER POINT ABOUT WHAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE FOR YOUNGER CHILDREN TO BE CAUGHT IN SCHOOL, K-3.

I HAVE A THIRD GRADER, I DON'T WANT THEM TO BE TAUGHT ABOUT SEXUALITY IN THAT GRADE LEVEL.

AND INTERESTINGLY IN FLORIDA, THAT WAS ONE OF THE PROPOSALS DOO UNDERGRADUATE THIS DEBATE.

LET'S REFRAME THE LANGUAGE AWAY FROM TARGETING SPECIFIC SEXUAL MINORITIES AND GENDER MINORITIES AND INSTEAD SAY THAT HUMAN SEXUALITY GENERALLY WILL NOT BE TAUGHT IN THE CURRICULUM THERE.

WAS SUPPORT ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE BUT NOT ENOUGH PARTICULARLY ON THE CONSERVATIVE SIDE FOR THAT LANGUAGE TO BE ADOPTED.

THAT MIGHT BE A COMPROMISE APPROACH IF WE WANT TO FIND ONE.

>> BUT THERE IS STILL THE ISSUE OF WHAT CHILDREN SEE IN THE WORLD AND HAVING NOTHING TO DO IN THEIR MIND WITH SEXUALITY NECESSARILY BUT THE PEOPLE NEXT DOOR ARE TWO WOMEN OR TWO MEN RAISING LITTLE KIDS, WHY IS THAT DIFFERENT?

WHY IS THAT-- YOU KNOW, THEY'RE CURIOUS ABOUT THAT AND I THINK THEY SHOULD BE... >> WHY NOT JUST ASK THEIR PARENTS.

THEY'RE NEIGHBORS.

>> MAYBE IT COMES UP IN SCHOOL AND MAYBE THEY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO ASK THE TEACHER.

>> NOW WE HAVEN'T EVEN TEACHED UPON ANOTHER LAW AND WE WILL HAVE TO SAVE THAT FOR ANOTHER WEEK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON IN TEXAS.

RELATED TO A SIMILAR ISSUE.

WE WANT TO MOVE AHEAD NOW TO TALKING ABOUT OUR OWN GOVERNOR HERE.

KATHY HOCHUL HAS GONE FROM A LITTLE-KNOWN LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR A YEAR AGO, TO THE CLEAR FRONT RUNNER FOR THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION IN THIS FALL'S ELECTION.

HER STYLE COULD NOT BE MORE DIFFERENT FROM HER PREDECESSOR, ANDREW CUOMO, WHO HAD PLANNED TO KICK HER OFF THE TICKET IN HIS CAMPAIGN.

HAD HE RUN FOR REELECTION.

SO AS THIS RACE KICKS OFF, LET'S ASSESS HER TENURE SO FAR-IT'S ONLY BEEN SIX MONTHS BUT IT HAS BEEN CONSEQUENTIAL.

TARA?

WHAT IS YOUR REPORT CARD FOR GOVERNOR HOCHUL?

>> OVERALL I WOULD GIVE HER AN A.

SHE DID PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT SHE HAD TO DO.

SHE MADE IT VERY CLEAR FAIRLY EARLY ON, THAT SHE WAS-- AND I'M USING THIS PHRASE PURPOSELY.

SHE WAS NOT CUOMO'S GIRL, WHICH IS WHAT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE EXPECTED SHE WOULD BE.

AND THAT THERE WASN'T MUCH SUBSTANCE TO HER.

AND I THINK SHE SHOWED VERY QUICKLY THAT NO, I'M NOT SIMPLY A YES PERSON FOR CUOMO.

I'M NOT SIMPLY GOING TO CONTINUE EVERY LITTLE POLICY HE HAD.

THAT I AM MY OWN PERSON AND THAT I WILL MAKE MY OWN DECISIONS.

AND THAT WAS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT SHE NEEDED TO DO.

THE SECOND THING SHE NEEDED TO DO WAS TO MAKE IT VERY CLEAR MY STYLE IS DIFFERENT FROM CUOMO'S.

SO IN THAT SENSE SHE ABSOLUTELY GETS AN A.

SHE HAS WORKED WELL WITH THE DEMOCRATS.

SHE HASN'T, YOU KNOW, SENT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY SORT OF OVER THE EDGE, GIVING THEM SOMETHING THAT THEY COULD REALLY USE AGAINST HER IN THIS FIRST SIX MONTHS.

PROBABLY THE BIGGEST EXAMPLE IS HOW SHE HAS HANDLED THE COVID-19 MANDATES BEING VERY PURPOSEFUL IN GIVING UPDATES BUT ALSO MAKING IT VERY CLEAR, AS THE RATES WENT DOWN, THAT SHE WOULD RETHINK THINGS AND ONE OF THE BIG THINGS WAS ELIMINATING THE MASK MANDATE BEFORE THE CAMPAIGN.

BECAUSE CERTAINLY REPUBLICANS WERE VERY CLEARLY POISED TO REALLY GO AFTER HER ON THE MASK MANDATE.

>> SHE WAS BEGINNING TO TAKE A LITTLE HEAT ON THAT AS THE NUMBERS DROPPED.

SHE DID HOLD OFF A BIT.

>> EXACTLY.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE IDEA OF BEING CUOMO'S GIRL.

SHE MOVED VERY QUICKLY TO PUT HER PEOPLE INTO POSITION.

>> YEAH, AND SHE HAS HIRED, I THINK, GOOD PEOPLE AND MADE GOOD STAFFING DECISIONS.

SHE TEAMS SEEMS TO HAVE GOOD POLITICAL OPERATIVES HELPING WITH THE CAMPAIGN AND I THINK IN TERMS OF THE PROBABILITY OF HER SUCCESS AS RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR, WHICH IS HIGH.

I WOULD GIVE IT, YOU KNOW, BASICALLY THE PEOPLE RUNNING AGAINST HER IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, ONE MORE CONSERVATIVE AND ONE MORE PROGRESSIVE, I DON'T THINK HAVE MUCH OF A CHANCE.

AND I ANY WE NEED TO REMEMBER ABOUT HER THAT SHE IS ONE OF THE FEWER ONLY GOVERNORS WHO CAME UP THROUGH LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

SHE HAD A LOT OF EXPERIENCE AT THE TOWN AND COUNTY LEVEL.

IN ADDITION, WHAT CUOMO, BECAUSE HE DIDN'T REALLY TRUST HER, I THINK, DID OR HAD HER DO WAS TO TRAVEL ALL OVER THE STATE AND KIND OF SELL CUOMO'S POLICY BUT WHEN SHE WAS DOING THAT, SHE WAS MAKING FRIENDS AND ALLIES ALL OVER THE STATE, SO SHE REALLY-- SHE IS A VERY FRIENDLY, YOU KNOW, OPEN PERSON IN THAT REGARD.

I THINK PEOPLE LIKE HER AND RESPECT HER.

THEY TEND TO SAY WHEN THEY SPEAK WITH HER, THAT SHE, AT LEAST APPEARS TO REALLY BE LISTENING TO THEM WHICH IS NOT THE CASE WITH HER PREDECESSOR.

>> I THINK SOFT SKILLS ARE IMPORTANT AND SHE HAS EXCELLED IN THAT.

I THINK THE ANSWER TO MANY OF OUR QUESTIONS IS MONEY.

SHE HAS BEEN ABLE TO RAISE OVER 20 MILLION WHICH IS A STRONG DETERRENT IN PRIMARY CHALLENGES AND SPEAKS TO HER BE AFRAID AGO BUILT AND THE STRONG POSITION SHE IS IN TERMS OF THE CAMPAIGN.

THE OTHER MONEY CONSIDERATION IS THE BUDGET.

A FEW YEARS AGO WHEN COVID HIT, NEW YORK WAS IN A VERY DIFFICULT SITUATION IN TERMS OF BUDGETS.

HUGE SHORTFALLS.

ED IF RELIEF HAS TAKEN CARE OF ALL THAT SO THAT'S HELPFUL FOR NEW YORKERS AND IT'S HELPFUL FOR HER IN BEING ABLE TO GIVE A LITTLE SOMETHING TO EVERYTHING AS SHE DOES TRAVEL AROUND THE STATE AND SAY LOOK AT THIS, LOOK AT THAT.

THIS IS THE RESULT OF OUR WORK.

>> EVERYBODY LOVES YOU WHEN YOU ARE HANDING OUT MONEY.

NOW WHAT HAS BEEN HER-- YOU MENTIONED TARA YOU THOUGHT HER BIGGEST SUCCESS HAS BEEN DEALING WITH THE PANDEMIC AND THE MASKING AND ALL THAT.

HAS THERE BEEN ANY DOWNSIDES?

HAS SHE HAD ANY NOTABLE FAILURES?

>> NOT THAT I CAN THINK OF IN TERMS OF NOTABLE FAILURES.

I WILL SAY THOUGH ONE THING THAT I DON'T THINK SHE HAS HAD THE OPPORTUNITY YET TO REALLY SHOW IS HOW WELL IS SHE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BALANCE THE NEEDS OF UPSTATE AND DOWNSTATE?

AND SHE IS RECEIVING QUITE A BIT OF PRESSURE FROM ASSEMBLY PERSONS, FROM NEW YORK CITY.

ONE EXAMPLE IS THERE IS A MOVE RIGHT NOW TO LEGALIZE PROSTITUTION.

ONE OF THE BIG ADVOCATES FOR THAT HAS JUST BEEN GIVEN A STATE POSITION AND THAT MAY PLAY REALLY WELL DOWNSTATE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WELL THAT IS GOING TO PLAY UPSTATE.

I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD CALL THAT A FAILURE BUT CERTAINLY IT IS GOING TO BE A CHALLENGE, A CHALLENGE SHE HASN'T REALLY HAD TO MEET YET.

>> SHE HAS THIS COLLABORATIVE AND CONCILIATORY STYLE AND MAYBE THAT DOESN'T WORK IN NEW YORK STATE.

WE ARE A FRACTIOUS STATE.

CAN NEW YORK BE GOVERNED IN THIS SORT OF FRIENDLY MANNER?

>> I THINK THE POINT ABOUT THE MONEY IS HELPFUL BECAUSE IT CAN MAYBE BE GOVERNED IN WHAT WOULD BE A FRACTIOUS MANNER, TONED DOWN, IF EVERYBODY IS GETTING RESOURCES.

>> AND WHAT YOU SEE PUBLICLY IS NOT NECESSARILY HOW PEOPLE BEHAVE BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

JUST BECAUSE SHE HAS A FRIENDLY DEMEANOR PUBLICLY DOESN'T MEAN SHE IS NOT SUFFICIENTLY TOUGH BEHIND THE SCENES.

>> I CAN IMAGINE HER BEING SUFFICIENTLY TOUGH, FRANKLY.

>> NOW PROGRESSIVES HAVE NOT BEEN ENTIRELY HAPPY WITH HER ON A NUMBER OF-- WELL YOU MENTIONED SOME ALREADY.

SHE HAS AVOIDED TABLING POSITIONS ON SOME PRETTY CONTENTIOUS ISSUES LIKE SCALING BACK BAIL REFORM FOR INSTANCE, OR CAPPING RENT INCREASES WHICH HAS BEEN A BIG ISSUE COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC.

DOES SHE HAVE A PROBLEM ON HER LEFT?

I THINK THIS GETS TO WHAT TARA WAS SAYING.

WHERE CAN CONSERVATIVES MAYBE HAVE TRACTION ON?

IT WILL BE CRIMINAL JUSTICE ISSUES, IMMIGRANT RIGHTS ISSUES.

THINGS THEY'RE PASSIONATE IN NEW YORK CITY.

LESS SO UPSTATE.

I THINK SHE IS GOING TRY TO WALK A FINE LINE BETWEEN THOSE TWO AT LEAST UNTIL THE CAMPAIGN IS OVER AND SHE IS ELECTED ON HER OWN TERMS.

>> NOW THE LABOR MOVEMENT IS HAVING A MOMENT.

A NUMBER OF ORGANIZING EFFORTS HAVE SUCCEEDED OF LATE IN NEW YORK, BARISTAS, JOURNALISTS AND EVEN SOME FARMWORKERS HAVE ORGANIZED.

CONGRESSIONAL AIDES ARE EXPLORING THE IDEA.

68% OF AMERICANS NOW APPROVE OF LABOR UNIONS, ACCORDING TO GALLUP.

BUT OVERALL, UNION MEMBERSHIP IS STILL DECLINING.

SHOULD LABOR LAW MAKE IT EASIER TO ORGANIZE A UNION?

KRISTI KRISTI, AS UNIONS ARE COMING BACK, DO THEY HELP OR HURT THE ECONOMY?

>> I THINK THEY HELP THE ECONOMY.

I THINK WE WRONGLY AND BY THAT I MEAN THE MEDIA, THE MEASURE OF A GOOD ECONOMY IS THE STOCK MARKET, FOR EXAMPLE WHICH ALWAYS ANNOYS ME.

THE STOCK MARKET IS NOT THE MEASURE OF A GOOD ECONOMY.

IT'S THE MEASURE OF A GOOD SITUATION FOR THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HEAVILY INVESTED IN THE STOCK MARKET.

IT'S ONE INDICATOR BUT BY OTHER INDICATORS, FOR EXAMPLE, HOW MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES HAVE TO RELY ON FOOD STAMPS TO GET BY.

OR MEASURES OF INTERGENERATIONAL MOBILITY, UPWARD INEQUALITY IN VARIOUS SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY, VARIOUS SECTORS OF THE POPULATION.

THOSE THINGS ARE MUCH BETTER INDICATORS OF A HEALTHY ECONOMY.

THE UNITED STATES IS MISERABLE ON MANY OF THOSE VERSUS OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRIES AND A LOT OF THOSE MEASURES AND UNIONS, STRONG UNIONS WHICH HAVE SOME POWER TO NEGOTIATE WITH HUGELY POWERFUL COMPANIES, MORE POWERFUL THAN THE COMPANIES TENDED TO BE 50 YEARS AGO, ARE A WAY FOR THOSE MEASURES TO BE HELPED; THAT IS, THINGS TO BE MORE EGALITARIAN, INTERGENERATIONAL MOBILITY TO BE GREATER.

PEOPLE TO HAVE MORE RESOURCES TO RAISE THEIR FAMILIES.

SO, YES.

STRONGER UNIONS, IN MY VIEW, WOULD PUT US IN A SITUATION THAT'S MORE LIKE THE ADVANCED COUNTRIES OF EUROPE, THE NORDIC COUNTRIES AND WESTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WHICH HAVE QUITE STRONG UNIONS, WITH A VERY ESTABLISHED PLACE IN NATIONAL NEGOTIATIONS.

>> YOU ARE DEFINITELY ON BOARD WITH THE UNIONS.

TARA CAN YOU JUST BE AS EFFECTIVE DO YOU THINK IN THE KNOWLEDGE ECONOMY WE HAVE TODAY.

WE HAVE UNIONS, THE UAW, RIGHT AND BLUE COLLAR WORKERS IN A FACTORY ORGANIZING.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S ONE THING TO ORGANIZE BARISTAS AT STARBUCKS, A LITTLE DIFFERENT-- CAN IT BE AS EFFECTIVE IN TODAY'S ECONOMY?

>> I THINK UNIONS CAN BE EFFECTIVE.

ONE OF THE BIG THINGS THAT UNIONS DO IS EACH UNION'S SUCCESS PUTS PRESSURE ON THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO MATCH THAT SUCCESS, ESPECIALLY RIGHTED NOW WE ARE IN A VERY STRONG ECONOMY IN TERMS OF THERE ARE PLENTIFUL JOBS BUT WHEN JOBS ARE NOT PLENTIFUL OR YOU NEED CERTAIN SKILLS, UNIONS HAVE MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR PEOPLE WITH THOSE SKILLS TO REACH A CERTAIN SALARY.

IF THE PRIVATE SECTOR WANTS THE BEST PEOPLE, THEY HAVE TO MATCH THE SALARIES SO IN THAT SENSE, I THINK UNIONS CAN BE EFFECTIVE.

PART OF THE INTERESTING THING WITH THIS THOUGH IS THAT IF YOU LOOK AT WHERE THE UNIONIZATION IS OCCURRING, IT'S OCCURRING IN EARS, WHICH AS YOU SAY, ARE VERY MUCH KNOWLEDGE SECTORS AND/OR SERVICE SECTORS AND I THINK INITIALLY, ONCE UNIONS GET ESTABLISHED IN THOSE SECTORS, THE FIRST CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, ET CETERA, SECOND CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS, THEY CAN BE EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE.

BUT PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THAT BUSINESSES TYPICALLY WORK VERY HARD TO BEGIN TO COUNTER THE SUCCESSES OF THOSE UNIONS.

SO I THINK UNIONS TYPICALLY TEND TO BE MOST EFFECTIVE IF THEIR EARLY YEARS AS BUSINESSES BECOME MORE COMFORTABLE WITH HAVING TO NEGOTIATE WITH THEM.

THEY ALSO BECOME MORE EFFECTIVE AT FINDING WAYS TO GET AROUND WHAT THEY HAVE NEGOTIATEDDED.

>> TARA MENTIONED PRIVATE SECTOR , BUT PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS ARE AN AREA THAT'S BEEN, IN RECENT YEARS, HAS BEEN STRONGER FOR UNIONS THAN PRIVATE SECTOR.

>> IT HAS.

AND I THINK IN A POST INDUSTRIAL ECONOMY, UNIONS ARE MOST HELPFUL.

NOT SO MUCH INDUSTRIAL WORKPLACE CONCERNS.

IT'S WOMEN IN THE WORKFORCE LIKE NEVER BEFORE AND HAVING UNIONS HELP THEM ADVOCATE FOR WORK-LIFE BALANCE RIGHTS AND BENEFITS THAT DISPROPORTIONATELY HURT WORKING MOTHERS AND THESE TYPES OF THINGS.

SO I SEE THE NATURE OF THE UNIONS IN THE POST INDUSTRIAL ECONOMY CHANGING IN THAT REGARD.

I THINK UNIONS ARE EXCELLENT FOR HELPING WORKERS TO ORGANIZE AND HAVE BETTER PAY AND BETTER BENEFITS.

I ALSO THINK IT'S WORTH POINTING OUT THOUGH THAT A UNION IS ONLY AS EFFECTIVE AS ITS LEADERSHIP.

SO IT'S NOT A ONE SIZE FITS ALL, UNIONS ARE ALWAYS GOING TO MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR WORKERS IN EVERY SITUATION.

I THINK IT'S WORTH NOTING.

>> AND ONE ADDITION IS TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, AND IS THAT MANY MORE UNION LEADERS ARE WOMEN NOW.

MUCH HIGHER PROPORTION OF THE PEOPLE ORGANIZING THE PEOPLE RUNNING THOSE UNIONS ARE WOMEN, WHICH REFLECTS THE DIFFERENT SECTORS THAT UNIONS ARE MOVING INTO, AS YOU SAID.

>> THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS RELEASED A REPORT ON PROMOTING UNIONS.

SO WITH THAT ADMINISTRATION BEHIND IT, DO YOU EXPECT WE WILL SEE MORE GROWTH?

I CAN'T SAY CONTINUED GROWTH.

>> SADLY I THINK EXACTLY THERE WILL BE MORE DESIRE FOR UNIONS ON THE PART OF WORKERS BUT I ALSO THINK YOU ARE GOING TO IT MUCH MORE PUSH BACK AGAINST UNIONS OR THE EFFORT TO UNIONIZE BECAUSE IN A SENSE, THIS HAS BECOME MUCH MORE OF A POLITICAL ISSUE THAN IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN PRIOR TO THE REPORT BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

>> WE WANT TO GO TO THE As AND FS AND BEGIN KRISTI WITH YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO MARK MEADOWS, DONALD TRUMP'S CHIEF OF STAFF.

IN 2020, HE REGISTERED TO VOTE AS A RESIDENT OF A RENTAL HOME IN NORTH CAROLINA.

HE SUBMITTED A BALLOT BY MAIL IN THE 2020 ELECTION.

OF COURSE Mr. MEADOWS HAS BEEN A PROMINENT CRITIC OF MAIL-IN VOTING AS WELL AS SUPPORTING TRUMP'S FALSE ELECTION CLAIMS BUT HERE'S THE THING.

IT TURNS OUT THAT Mr. MEADOWS HAD NEVER LIVED IN THE PLACE IN NORTH CAROLINA FROM WHICH HE CLAIMED TO BE VOTING AND THAT IN NORTH CAROLINA, IS ELECTION FRAUD.

>> SO WE WILL HAVE A CASE COMING UP SOON NO DOUBT.

TARA, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO SPECTRUM COMMUNICATIONS.

SOMETIME OVER THE PAST NINE MONTHS, SPECTRUM CHANGED ITS IN-PERSON CUSTOMER CENTERS TO COMMUNICATION CENTERS WITH THE FOCUS OF SELLING PRODUCTS AND SERVICES INSTEAD OF MEETING THE NEEDS OF ITS CUSTOMERS.

NOW BEFORE A CUSTOMER CAN GET ASSISTANCE WITH AN EQUIPMENT ISSUE OR PAY A BILL, THE CUSTOMER MUST FIRST GO THROUGH AN ACCOUNT REVIEW AND DISCUSSION OF ALL POTENTIAL FS ISES WHETHER THAT CUSTOMER WANTS TO OR NOT SOMETHING OR SOMEONE IS BEING SERVED BUT NOT THE CONSUMER.

>> GREAT POINT.

>> A NEW REPORT ABOUT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT THAT THEY PROSECUTED OVER $8 BILLION IN COVID FRAUD BY BUSINESS GROUPS AND CRIMINAL ORGANIZATIONS WITH BILLIONS MORE UNDER REVIEW.

THIS IS SHAMEFUL, LET'S GO TO OUR AS.

>> ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY TIGHTENING EMISSION STANDARDS FOR LARGE TRUCKS AND OTHER HEAVY DUTY VEHICLES.

STANDARD FOR NITROGEN OXIDE EMISSIONS FROM THESE TRUCKS HAVE NOT BEEN UPDATED IN MORE THAN 20 YEARS.

THE E.P.A.

ALSO ANNOUNCED MORE THAN $3 BILLION IN FUNDING TO GET MORE LOW AND ZERO EMISSION SCHOOL BUSES ON THE ROAD.

>> AND TARA, YOUR A.

>> MY A IS IN HONOR OF WOMEN'S HISTORY MONTH AND IT GOES TO CHICAGO PRINCIPAL DANIELLE WOODS.

AFTER TEACHING IN THE CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOLS FOR 20 YEARS, WOODS AND HER HUSBAND FOUND THAT THE HERITAGE LEADERSHIP ACADEMY ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF CHICAGO.

THIS PAST YEAR, AFTER THE SCHOOL BEGAN TO LOSE MEMBERSHIP BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC, SHE AND HER HUSBAND GAVE UP THEIR SALARIES IN ORDER TO PAY THEIR STAFF AND KEEP THE SCHOOL OPEN.

>> THANK YOU.

AND LUKE YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO THE END OF THE LONGEST LOCKOUT IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL HISTORY AND THE ADOPTION OF THE FULL REGULAR SEASON.

HUM BABE AS MY OLD BASEBALL COACH WOULD SAY.

HERE WE GO.

>> I WAS GOING TO SLIP IN A MENTION OF THE LOCKOUT IN THE UNION DISCUSSION SO I'M GLAD YOU GOT TO IT AND WE'RE ALWAYS HAPPY FOR THE BASEBALL SEASON.

AT LEAST I AM.

NOW THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

FOR COMMENTS, YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY AND FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER" AND FOR BASEBALL FANS EVERYWHERE, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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