I'm so glad you're with us on LIFE Ahead here tonight.

I'm Sadie Thompson, the host but the real star of the show is my guest this evening.

>> You have seen him before on LIFE Ahead and here is your opportunity tonight to listen to his sage advice.

We're going to be talking about law in terms especially of asset protection.

Something in a lot of you are probably wondering for yourself or your parents or your grandparents can you protect your assets?

Well, Brian Nugent is here this evening to give us some advice on that.

>> Brian, welcome back again.

Thank you, Sanjay.

I appreciate it.

This is such a timely topic because things are changing so much and they're changing not only in employment as we've been discussing but in the medical field and in the field of law.

>> It's become very complicated.

That's right.

Well, currently we have ten thousand seniors a day turning age 65 or older.

>> So these ten thousand a day ten thousand a day.

So we haven't hit our peak yet.

But so this topic of protecting assets and concern over preserving money that you've earned during your lifetime is very, very apropos for as you mentioned before, children, parents, grandparents, anyone that you're helping out with their finances and helping them to plan for retirement and even significantly into retirement and everything is costing so much more including health care for long term care.

So all the more important reason to try to find a way to protect what you worked for and what you've earned.

When we talk about assets, Brian, what do you include in that folder?

>> So an asset is anything that has a value so saving an asset could be a life insurance policy that has a cash value underlying that it could be real estate.

So when we talk about real estate, it could be your primary residence, a farm in this area of northeastern Indiana, northwestern Ohio Lake cottages, country homes, those types of things.

So anything that's real estate that has a value in income property it could be an IRA, any type of qualified funds like an IRA for O3b 401k brokerage account.

So anything that has a value that could be exchanged or used for something those are the assets that we're talking about that's contrasted with income.

So income would be something like Social Security income or income from a pension could be distributions from your IRA, your required minimum distributions from an IRA.

>> So we're looking at both assets and income.

But when we talk about assets it's anything that has a cash value that you would be able to use in your retirement or something that you're wanting to protect something that wouldn't be have a cash value for example, is term life insurance term life insurance has a value when you pass away but you couldn't cash that term value that term life insurance policy and for cash.

So that's not an asset in relationship to asset protection and elder law.

>> What about material things?

You know the car, the boat, the motorcycle but I don't know whatever material things that you have furniture even I don't know.

>> Right.

So personal property personal the examples you gave typically are looked at when we're looking at someone if they have assets, if they're needing to leave the home or have care in their home, we would be looking at title assets such as you are mentioning motorcycles or your your car van things that wouldn't necessarily be looked at when we're trying to protect assets would be personal property.

So rather household goods.

>> So furnishings, clothing, those types of things we really aren't normally trying to protect those assets and they aren't necessarily looked at when we are trying to get payment for our care either in the home or in a nursing home if we have a nursing home placement or a memory care unit placement or even some assisted living facility placements.

So we're looking for payment pay or sources like a Medicaid or a VA to pay for your stay in long term care facility or a nursing home.

We aren't necessarily looking at the value of your household furnishings but we would look at value of vehicles and motorcycles, those types of things.

>> OK, all right.

We've got a call coming in here from Katie.

We'll take that in just a minute.

While we're waiting here, let's talk about whether or not it makes a difference whether you're married or single when it comes to protecting your assets, does it?

>> It does matter.

It's actually easier if I have clients come in or other elder law attorneys have clients that come into their offices when we have a married couple if the person is eminently going into a nursing home or leaving the home, we actually can protect a lot more assets than if there are a single person.

When we're talking about asset protection it's typically in two halves that we're looking at.

It is elder law attorneys preplanning normally that's five years or more before we need that type of care or crisis planning which is someone's going in to a facility or they're leaving home or they're needing home and the care needing care in the home immediately and they haven't done that preplanning so it is easier to protect more assets for a married couple in my experience for at crisis planning stage for the pre planning stage five years or more SINGLER or coupled it really is not relevant.

OK, good answer.

All right, here's what Katie wants to know and thank you for watching.

If I had Katie she says my parents are nervous to talk about retirement.

>> How can I start that conversation?

I bet you get this a lot from clients.

Yeah, that's great question.

Katie, thanks so much for asking that.

So for me I'd look at retirement as an exciting time of life.

I I don't see it as something to be nervous about whatsoever.

We were just talking before we went on the air someone that Sandy worked with years ago that in this person's retirement there were still within their field but not taking on the managerial position that they had had in the press in the past or the pressure of that managerial position, they were still able to be involved in the business that they enjoyed but maybe not taking on that leadership mantle.

I'd like to call it rewiring instead of retiring.

>> Oh, I like that rewiring.

That's good.

Thank you.

So to begin the conversation, I think that as a child of a parent that starting to think about retirement, maybe doing their estate planning for retirement have a very gently talk about the conversation the beginning.

Have you thought about what's going to be happening in the future?

Make that conversation one that's comfortable.

I know that there are certain generations that really don't like to talk about their savings or their wealth, the debt that they may have but I find it's really helpful if the children can purposely become involved and not in an overbearing way but gently talk about it in a comfortable situation where that's not necessarily the immediate topic that you're talking about and over time you might have that conversation with your parents gradually so that they're more comfortable discussing with you retirement what their plans are.

Are they going to be downsizing or are they looking to protect assets so that when they are actually retired those assets are protected so that in retirement they don't lose those assets should one parent or the other parent become ill need to leave the home or acquire to require assistance in the home?

So those conversations are very healthy.

I would encourage you to begin talking and a very comfortable setting about that bring it up as a natural part of your conversation and I have a feeling that over time your parent or parents will become more comfortable talking to you about that for you to be of assistance to them and be a resource to them as opposed to being nosy or or asking bluntly what do you have in savings?

What are you planning on doing?

>> I don't think that's the approach to take exactly.

And I think you said it depends on generations.

I think a generation like above you for example, that generation is very private and they don't want to disclose maybe even to their children what their finances are or specifically.

So it's a different way to talk to them.

>> Just say hey, we don't have to you don't have to tell me how much.

But here's what we need to do to protect you and I think to when I know that I in my practice encourage my clients that may be using their children as part of that asset protection process to include the children at some point during that discussion because we oftentimes are relying on children as part of the asset protection process.

So I would encourage my clients at some point during that discussion process to include our children, bring them into a meeting.

I will tell you Sandy was talking about things were changing of course because of it and that pandemic has changed a lot of the way the way that all of us have interacted.

And so I engaged in some conferences with children that are local and children that are far and I'm sure that other estate planning to do this planning attorneys do the same thing.

This has become a part of our practice now so that we can accommodate engaging those children in the conversation and bringing parents into the conversation as well.

>> Yeah, Brian, I know with your your many years of experience and different types of clients you probably see a lot of different problems.

What are a couple of the things that people seem to hesitate the most in terms of talking about planning their estate or protecting their assets?

>> I think the most difficult thing about protecting assets for clients is what the caller was asking about that's having the discussion with your children, having that discussion early enough and also how can you sometimes protecting assets requires giving up control of those assets like what with so and so we I talked earlier about preplanning.

>> Sure.

And crisis planning.

>> So oftentimes with preplanning it involves using a very unique type of a trust and asset protection trust and those trusts require that someone else is in charge typically a child the money is there, it's protected but it does require a very healthy relationship between the parent and the child or the grandparent and and the grandchild.

So that's the the loss of control over management of some of those assets.

That's a very difficult thing to get your head around.

But I think what folks should remember is that it isn't necessarily an all or nothing thing.

>> So for example, I have a lot of clients that are farmers so they have a great deal of real estate and they want to make sure that real estate is protected to pass onto the next generation, the generation after that.

>> So that's very important to them that that's who they are, that that's part of their identity.

>> So perhaps we can give away and put into trust some of that farm ground or even all the farm grown but possibly not the house.

What is it that we want to protect?

I referenced earlier a real estate like a lake cottage being an asset that families wanted to protect.

>> So it may be that we're able to put that lake cottage into a trust so that we know we'll never lose that lake cottage.

It will always be protected but it does require the person that owns that home to give up some level of control over that on the other spectrum outside of preplanning is the crisis planning and normally in a time of crisis planning somebody is going into the nursing home tomorrow and it's not as much of a concern giving up control at that point they thought that this situation would never happen.

It's all of a sudden happening now we're into a crisis mode of how much can I protect?

I've worked a lifetime for this.

I maybe talked to Brian or some other elder law attorney five years ago.

Ten years ago I said that crisis planning is too much for me.

I don't want to do that.

But now we're in the throes of actually going into a facility and so we're in a crisis mode trying to protect those assets, save as much as you can while getting the same level of care so that that loss of control at that point maybe isn't as significant to the person.

>> Well, it sounds complicated but it doesn't have to be if you've got good advice and seeking an attorney's advice is certainly something that you no one should do.

What can the family do, Brian, to help this person that's facing long term care going into a nursing home or regular home health care situations?

>> What can the rest of the family do?

>> Well, from my field from an elder law attorney standpoint, I think there are some basic things that need to be in place for everyone actually regardless of age.

But a durable power of attorney.

>> It sounds so, so basic.

But I'll tell you what having that financial that durable power of attorney in place can help you avoid guardianship number one.

>> And number two , very rarely when we need to use those is it an event that we were planning for an emergency happens and you have that document in place health care power of attorney so that you have in place someone that's your health care proxy they can make decisions about your health care if you're unable to tell the doctor what it is that you want to have done.

We want those things done well in advance when you're speaking with an elder law or estate planning attorney, you'll want to make sure that you've clarified where you want your money to go at the time of your passing and if you want to protect some of those assets which I think most people do, how do we protect those assets ?

So those conversations are healthy conversations to have with an elder lawyer maybe beginning with your children but then evolving into using and bringing professionals into that discussion which would include elder law attorney could include your CPA, your financial advisor, any of those folks would be in that circle.

So in addition to that health care power of attorney and and financial power of attorney, of course you would want a last will and testament in place if we can avoid intestate succession we'd like to do that.

Intestate succession is where the the state determines how the money goes.

It's not an awful thing.

But if you can be in charge of where those assets go that you've garnered over your lifetime, that's a very positive thing that you would want to be involved with.

And then finally perhaps we need a trust trusts generally permit us to avoid probate among other things, I'd like to tell people think of trust as a giant umbrella.

>> There isn't just one type of trust there dozens of different types of trusts.

I spoke earlier about an asset protection trust that could help you with pre planning should you go into a nursing home.

There are also trusts that are very they're called living trusts.

They're used very commonly.

Those are revocable trusts that help us avoid a statement and probate at the time of our passing.

So any of those documents should be talked about both with your children and your elder law or estate planning attorney.

>> You mentioned, Brian, the importance of selecting someone and having a legal document, the person that would be your power of attorney as well as a health care representative.

What would be some recommendations?

Let's say you don't have any children or you don't have anybody in your family that you feel could could really do this.

>> What are some choices?

>> So I have clients regularly in my office that will come in and they're not quite sure who they're going to appoint.

Yeah, sometimes I think the natural go to as a child sometimes the child is the appropriate choice and sometimes they're not for any number of reasons and and it could be because they don't of individual doesn't have children or it could be that the children just isn't the right person.

They're not a great fit for serving in a financial position or making health care decisions for you.

So I challenge my clients to really think about who it is that might serve on your behalf who you have a lot of faith in a significant amount of confidence in it could be a sibling, it could be a lifelong friend.

It could sometimes rarely it could be professionals that are involved in your life on rare occasions I'll see that.

But I would say that most professionals probably try and stay out of that that role.

So I would encourage the people and encourage my clients and I'm assuming other elder law and estate planning attorneys do the same thing.

Encourage them to think about who is it that's really in your life that is financially sound, makes wise decisions and realize we have to capacities that we can fill one deals with health care and the other deals with finances.

>> So the person that are for your health care decisions may not be the person that you're appointing for your financial decisions sometimes the person that's really I always chuckle a client will pick someone that's very decisive for their health care decision maker.

They have somebody else that maybe is a nurturer and and is very kind hearted but they could never make tough decisions when it's time to make a really tough decision about health care so they might pick somebody in their life that's a real strong decision maker.

So when they're called upon in those tough instances they can actually make the decision and that's important because it could be, you know, life or death for this person.

>> And if they're not, you know, real decisive as you said it may be yes.

No yes no.

>> It makes them more challenging and it's better if you have a living will you know exactly what this person wanted and if you have the conversation with them, how much should you converse with this person that you're selecting is a health care or power of attorney or trustee of your estate?

>> Well, those are all different capacities.

Sure.

So as far as health care is concerned, I think that well in Indiana as of July one of last year we now have to send a copy of a health care appointment copy of the document where you're appointing someone to make health care decisions for you to the person that is that you've appointed but should all always have been in place now it's something that's in statutes that we need to do that as attorneys in Indiana.

>> But I think that although the living wills importance of the living will do you have the will to live if the effort to sustain life is futile and you get three choices in that instance one keeping alive at all costs I want to receive artificial hydration and nutrition.

Number two , I don't want to receive artificial hydration nutrition.

Let me go or number three I intentionally don't make a decision.

I want my health care representative to make the decision for me.

But what's most important is that you have a discussion with the individual that you've appointed your health care decision about what you want in those instances there was a lot of guilt that's going on at that time and it's it's very stressful for everyone.

>> We know that someone may be passing away.

We know that grandma has been ill or mom or dad had been ill.

But all of a sudden when you're in the middle of that you're brain kind of freezes.

>> So if I think it's such a positive thing if the person that's ill or the person that's appointing someone else can have the conversation with those they've appointed to let them know their expectations so that when decisions are being made the guilt isn't as strong or or oppressive.

>> You know what they wanted you're making the decision in keeping with what they've let you know.

That goes back to the question we got the front of the conversation tonight.

What what should I talk to my parents about in retirement this is one of those topics you don't want children to be put in a position where they're not quite sure what you want so I strongly encourage that conversation to take place.

>> Like you said, it does relieve you of any guilt because you know, Mom told us this is what she wants and then there's no question about for sure I want to talk a little bit about long term care or going into nursing homes.

That's one of the key things we wanted to address for you here this evening.

Now we have a legal person that can address that.

What are some things that are myths about going into nursing homes?

You know, you've heard people talk about they're afraid they're going to lose this or that or whatever.

>> What how does that all out play, Brian?

I think one the biggest myths is that if someone is receiving benefits from something like Medicaid or the VA to pay for your stay and long term care facility, the myth is that you'll be in a substandard facility or that you'll receive substandard care.

>> Absolutely not true.

The individuals that are providing that physical care to residents of nursing homes memory care units have no idea how that stay is being paid for .

>> There's no difference from room to room in that facility.

So I think that's a very large myth.

I think there's also a large myth that if I go into a nursing home and I haven't done that preplanning, I can't protect any of my money and that is not true whatsoever typically to your question earlier, Sandy as a single person elder law attorneys can normally protect a minimum of 50 percent if not more if the person is a single person and they're going into a nursing home and if there are a couple typically all assets can be protected if you're working with an elder law attorney.

>> So the two biggest myths are if you have some type of a power source other than privately paying from your own checkbook, you're going to get substandard care.

>> Not true.

And secondly, that if I've gone into a nursing home and I didn't do that preplanning it's too late and I'm going to lose the farm or the house that simply isn't true.

It doesn't have to be true when you're working with an elder law attorney in order to protect those assets.

>> I mean maybe it did in another generation for years and years ago but things certainly have changed a lot now we have about one minute left the show here, Brian.

I'm going to give you that opportunity to tell people the most important thing that you need to do to protect your assets and what can you do for your family?

>> Sure.

I think that when we're looking at protecting assets again you're looking at that preplanning or crisis planning .

What I would encourage is speaking with an elder law attorney that is going to be able to advise you how to protect your unique assets.

Don't speak to a neighbor.

Your neighbor has had one experience.

They are very differently situated than you are.

Be careful about what you're reading on the Internet left and right.

I would encourage folks that are looking to protect assets in advance to work with an elder law attorney that knows what's going on.

I can understand your situation and concussed to make a situation to your to your to your assets and what you're wanting to a good accomplish for yourself and your children.

>> The second thing that folks need to be aware of is that if in fact they are going into a nursing home and it was unexpected or there was no preplanning that took place in advance, that is does not necessarily mean that you're going to lose the home, you're going to lose the farm, you're going to lose the money in your IRA or your brokerage account.

That's not going to be lost.

And if I could finally say, Sandy , that the amount of money that one has is not relevant your money what you have is what you want to protect and what's a lot or a little is different to each person.

>> Of course it is and certainly we we've addressed a lot of things that might help you with your preplanning if you well, great advice and certainly as we always do here on PBS we try to give you good information and good education.

Thank you, Brian Dugin.

Thank you so doing that for us tonight.

Pleasure.

And we're going to see you back here Wednesday night next Wednesday night every Wednesday night at seven thirty four more shows here on LIFE Ahead.

>> Good night.

Stay healthy and stay safe