>> Robert Randolph Newlen: Good morning everyone.

[applause] My name is Robert Newlen and I am the acting Librarian of Congress.

Thank you.

Thank you.

And I have to tell you, I am having a great time.

You know, as a librarian, a trained librarian, becoming Librarian of Congress, even acting is as good as it gets.

So it's wonderful.

We have so many incredibly talented staff, many of whom you'll be meeting today, volunteering.

They're just absolutely fantastic.

Yes.

[applause] On behalf of all of us at the Library of Congress, I want to officially welcome you to the Library of Congress National Book Festival.

So yeah.

I can hardly believe it's 25 years.

It's staggering because I remember attending the first one which was down on the mall, and it was always very hot and there weren't many bathrooms.

So I'm happy that we're here in this nice, air-conditioned convention cente Makes it very easy for us to get around.

I don't know if you know this, but First Lady Laura Bush and the Librarian of Congress at the time, Doctor James Billington, were the ones that really came up for the idea of this.

And Mrs.

Bush attended the very, very first one.

So the festival is one day, and it happens just once a year.

But think for a moment about all the stories, the insights and the literary ideas that have happened at this festival for 25 years.

When I look at the author list today, it's absolutely staggering.

I just wish I could chop myself up so I could see all of them.

But good news is, most of them will be available on our website at loc.gov.

after the festival.

Before we get started, we at the Library of Congress think of this festival as a gift to you all and the larger American public.

And we cannot do it without our most generous supporter, who is a staunch advocate for literacy and reading, David M. Rubenstein.

[applause] He has been doing this for over a decade, and we're now very privileged to have him chair our James Madison Council, Madison Council, which is the library's leading philanthropic group since 1990.

And in fact, the Madison Council provided the seed money for the very first year of the festival, and it's been a major sponsor every year since.

So it's my great pleasure and honor to welcome the festival's co-chair, David M. Rubenstein.

[applause] >> David M. Rubenstein: Thank you very much.

[applause] So thank you very much.

How many people here have been at all 25?

Please.

Okay.

How many have never been to one before?

Okay.

How many are excited about the first speaker we're going to have?

Okay.

Just briefly I wanted to thank Robert Newlen.

Robert has been at the Library of Congress for 47 years.

47 years.

[applause] And he was preceded by somebody who served for nine years, Carla Hayden.

And [applause] Carla Hayden was an unusual choice to be Librarian of Congress.

She was a woman, the first woman to be Librarian of Congress.

She was the first African American to be Librarian of Congress.

And she had the distinction of being a librarian.

And she was a gigantic supporter of the National Book Festival.

And as is Robert Newlen, I want to thank Robert for stepping in and doing a terrific job as the acting Librarian of Congress.

And I just want to thank all of you for coming here today, because you're going to be in for a terrific treat.

This is a great gift to the country, reall from the donors, the sponsors and the Library of Congress staff.

So I hope all of you will feel that today was an enriching experience.

You're going to learn a lot.

You're going to have enjoyable time, and then hopefully you'll go back and read.

You can't read too many books.

You can't read too much.

[applause] We have an illiteracy problem in our country.

Roughly 21% of adults are functionally illiterate.

It's not a good situation.

But today we're going to talk about the importance of reading, the pleasure of reading, and why.

I hope all of you will feel that when you leave today, that you have had a great experience, and you'll be determined to either read more books or get your children to read more books and also to learn about the importance of reading, because you can accomplish so much more if you read and read books.

So thank you all for coming.

We'll be back in one moment with our special guest.

[applause] >> Robert Randolph Newlen: I'm back.

Okay, let's get this show on the road.

We're going to start with Justice Amy Coney Barrett, who is an associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States.

Prior to her nomination to the Supreme Court, she served as circuit judge of the U.S.

Court of Appeals for the seventh district.

Justice Barrett received her Juris Doctor from Notre Dame Law, and we'll be talking today about her brand-new book, "Listening to the Law: Reflections on the Court and Constitution."

David is going to be in conversation with Justice Barrett, and there are a few important housekeeping notes, so that we can give you what you most treasure about this festival, which is meaningful, thoughtful conversations about books.

We'll allow photo taking for the first two minutes of the event.

There'll be no video recording from phones or other devices during the event, and there will be no Q&A.

Justice Barrett will be signing her book on the lower level in Hall B from 11:15 to 12:15.

And you'll see me there because I want one.

I hope you have a great day.

And let's please welcome Justice Barrett to the 2025 National Book Festival.

[applause] >> David M. Rubenstein: Well, thank you very much for coming this morning.

You're not busy writing any opinions today or anything like that?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I am not.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, Great.

So let me ask you at the beginning, why you decided to write a book relatively early in your tenure as a justice of the court Is it something you because you're a scholar, you felt you should write books or?

And how long did it take you to write this book?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Well, I started getting questions about the court very early in my career soon after I was confirmed, and I can't talk one on one to everyone who has questions, but I can write a book that allows anyone who's interested to read the answers.

And it was an arduous process writing the book.

To be honest, I'm not sure I would repeat it, just because it did take so long I have seven children and another job, so this was a summer project.

I worked on it over the last few summers when the court was out of session.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

And so when you write, do you write in longhand or you do it on a computer?

How do you actually write a book.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I actually start for judicial opinions as well, with a legal pad and a pen, because I find that it flows better that way.

Sometimes when I'm sitting at a computer screen, I get obsessive about making every sentence perfect, so I just have myself brainstorm and write that way.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now everybody here, no doubt will buy your book, but for those who haven't bought it yet or haven't read it yet, what is the main message that you're trying to convey through the book?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I want people to know how the court works, and I want people to feel pride, especially as our 250th anniversary of America approaches and the court is an institution.

And to understand how the justices do their jobs and how we do close legal analysis in deciding cases.

>> David M. Rubenstein: When justice O'Connor went on the court, she was the first woman in the history of the court to go on.

Now there are four women on the court.

So do the four women kind of ever get together and say, well, these men aren't treating us the right way or doesn't happen that way, or the four women ever talk together or no?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: We certainly talked together, but we're very fortunate that our male colleagues treat us the right way, just the right way.

So I think it would have been hard for justice O'Connor.

There wasn't even a women's bathroom in the robing room when justice O'Connor began, but now it feels all like we just function as one.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so let's go through your background a moment.

Where were you born?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, where my family had lived for generations.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

And were you the only child?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, far from it.

I am the oldest of seven children.

Six girls and then the youngest is a boy.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And did you ever say to your parents, "Well, we don't need that many more children" or they were happy, were happy to keep having more siblings?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: You know, when I was growing up, I felt very self-conscious.

When we went into a restaurant.

It always involved pushing a lot of tables together But then I went and had seven children myself because I loved it so much.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So when you were growing up in New Orleans, what did your parents do?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: My father is a lawyer and my mother was a high school English and French teacher, and then she wound up staying home and raising the children.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And did you realize early on you were a pretty good student, or I assume you were a pretty good student in school?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yeah, I was a good student in school.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Were you an athlete as well?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I was not an athlete.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So you went to college and where?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I went to Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And you picked Rhodes because of what?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I'm sorry I missed that.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Why did you pick Rhodes?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Well, as I said, I was the oldest of seven children, so scholarships were important.

And I had a very good scholarship to go to Rhodes.

And it was close enough to New Orleans that I could get home pretty easily.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And how did you do there?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I did well at Rhodes.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So then you decided to go to law school right after college.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I did, I didn't take a break.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And you went to Notre Dame law school?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I did.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And okay.

Were you attracted to the law school or the football team or what was?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I was attracted to the whole package.

I really I applied to Notre Dame because I loved Notre Dame, Michigan and Notre Dame as a university.

And then much as in college, I got a good scholarship and I didn't want to have debt after law school.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so when you go to law school, I went to law school the first week or so, you wonder whether you're really competitive with the other people.

When did you realize that you were not only competitive, but you were going to be number one in the class?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Well, in law school, you don't get any grades until the end of the class.

So you go through the whole first semester of law school without any tests or knowing if you're good at it.

So after the first set of exams, I got the highest grade in all but one class, and I still remember that class.

And that went great.

And then I figured I was good at it.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so you later became the editor in chief of the Law Review, which is.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No I was second in command in... >> David M. Rubenstein: Second in command.

Okay.

So you did pretty well in law school, and then you decide to get a clerkship.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I did.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And you clerked for which judge?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I was here in D.C.. I clerked for Judge Laurence Silberman on the D.C.

circuit.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And when you clerked for Silberman, did you say, I really want to be a judge myself?

Or do you say, this isn't for me >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No.

I didn't ever think I would be a judge.

It's just not something that I thought would ever happen.

I really admired Judge Silberman I thought the work he did was great.

I just didn't think that was really in my future.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So after you clerked for him and into your clerkship, you interviewed for a Supreme Court clerkship?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Well, back in those days, Supreme Court clerks tended to be hired pretty early.

So Justice Scalia actually hired me when I was a third year law student.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Really?

So he didn't actually need to see whether you did a good job for Judge Silberman?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: It's kind of a leap of faith, I guess.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

Well, he was a big believer in faith, so I guess so.

All right, so you clerked for the very famous Justice Scalia.

What was that like?

Is he fairly intimidating or he was easy to get along with.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Both.

He was certainly intimidating because he was a towering intellect, and he always kept you on your toes.

But he was also a lot of fun and had a big personality.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And did you ever tell him he's wrong about something or?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: That's the job of a clerk.

You sometimes have to tell your judge or your justice that sometimes he's wrong about something.

So yeah, and that's kind of intimidating.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And when your clerks tell you you're wrong, what do you say?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Why?

Why am I wrong?

And then we have a debate about it, and we go back and forth, and sometimes they persuade me and sometimes they don't.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So you clerked for him for a year, and then after that, you went to practice law?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I did, yeah.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And why did you give up the practice of law to go teach.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Gave up the practice of law to go teach because I had always wanted to teach.

And it was very appealing to me and my alma mater, Notre Dame, called to see if I would be interested.

I also thought it would be more compatible with raising a large family, which is what I wanted to do.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so you went there and you've been there.

You were there for quite some seven years, eight years?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: 15.

>> David M. Rubenstein: 15 years, all right.

After 15 years of teaching, did you say, how come nobody has asked me to be a judge yet?

Or you said, I don't really want to be a judge?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No.

You know, I did not ask that.

In fact, my husband and I have plots at Notre Dame in the cemetery there, so I really thought that's where we were going to stay.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Geez.

Okay.

And where did you meet your husband?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I met my husband in law school.

We were in law school at the same time.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And were you a better law school student?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No comment.

[laughing] >> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so you're both in law school and then you're teaching.

Did somebody call you up one day and say, how would you like to be a judge?

And who called you and said, you've been teaching.

You've done a pretty good job.

Would you like to be a judge?

Who was that?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: So the way that the judicial selection process works is it's done out of the White House counsel's office.

And so someone called to see if I would be interested in open.

But I didn't know anybody there at the time.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So you went for an interview, and I guess you passed and they said, we're going to nominate you.

And who was the president that nominated you on the Seventh Circuit?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: President Trump nominated me to the Seventh Circuit.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

And for that, for the Court of Appeals, do you actually meet the president when he nominates you or you don't you meet the attorney general or who do you actually meet or anybody.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I did meet... Oh, goodness.

I did not meet the attorney general.

And gosh, I've talked to the president in the White House a few times.

And as we're standing here, you've caught me.

I can't remember if I met him in that context.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, well, I'm sure the president will call you and tell you that he did meet you.

Okay.

All right, so you've got nominated and the confirmation process, it's more complicated than it used to be in the old days.

Was it fairly easy to get through the court for the confirmation process, or did you have controversy.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: For the Seventh Circuit?

>> David M. Rubenstein: Seventh Circuit?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, it was not uncontroversial.

There was it was rough.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so you got confirmed, and then you go in the court and then you have all these colleagu And did you say I made a mistake I'd rather teach and rather than be on the court.

Or do you like being on the cour >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, I like being on the court.

I had wonderful colleagues on the Seventh Circuit.

It's a very collegial place, and I found the work really interesting.

>> David M. Rubenstein: All right.

So you were on the court for how many years before somebody said, would you be interested in being on the Supreme Court?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Three.

I went on the court in 2017 and was nominated to the Supreme Court in 2020.

>> David M. Rubenstein: All right so how does that work?

Does the president call you or the attorney general call you and say, we have a vacancy on the Supreme Court, would you be interested in it?

Or they just say, we might be interested in having you, and you don't have to really say you want it because we assume you want it.

Well, how did that work?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No.

They ask if you're open to it, because it's the kind of thing where you don't really waste people's time going through the interview process.

If you aren't willing to say yes at the end.

So they first ask if you want to.

And I had to think about it.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Why did you have to think about it?

Why wouldn't you say this is the greatest thing to be on the Supreme Court?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Because it does involve, as you said, the confirmation process can be difficult.

It would require moving our fami We had young children.

That would be a move to Washington.

So I just wanted I needed to think about it, to think about whether we were willing to embark on that public service and a public life and move our family.

>> David M. Rubenstein: All right.

So you ultimately decided that you would be interested and then did you get a meeting with the president?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes.

After I said I would be interested, then I was called to Washington for an interview with the president.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And when you have an interview with the president is at that point where it's yours if you don't blow the interview or he's interviewing several people or you don't really know.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, I mean, I had interviewed with the president in 2018 after Justice Kennedy retired, and I did not get that.

I did not get that nomination.

So you don't know.

It's certainly not a case that if you get it, if you don't blow the interview.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So how was your interview with the president?

I guess it went okay.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I guess so.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So you get a nominated.

And the confirmation process these days is not exactly like the old days where there were unanimous approvals.

Really?

So did you really think in the process that you were going to get confirmed?

And do you have any doubt that you would get confirmed?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: My husband and I had to make a decision when we decided to go through with it.

Jesse said, I'm in on one condition that we burn the boats.

The nomination process and the confirmation process could be very ugly, but we can't second guess and same once we're on the court because we need to just forge ahead.

So yes, it was rough, but I had just resolved not to look back.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so you were confirmed with I guess, only a couple months or two before the president left office or something like that.

Is that right?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So you get on the court, you get confirmed, you get sworn in, and then you're finally on the court.

And did you get there and say, hey, I don't know if I really wanted to do this or are you saying, I can't believe I came back to where I had been a clerk.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: When I came back on my first day, my chambers is laid out very much like Justice Scalias, and when I walked in, I instinctively turned to the left, which is where the law clerk's office is, rather than to the right, where the justice's office is.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so when you go on the court, explain to people how the decision works.

People who go in front of the court.

Does anybody get to be able to get a case in front of the court?

How do you get a case in front of the court?

Can you explain how [inaudible] works?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yeah, we get I mean, I think right now it hovers about 4000 petitions per year of people asking us to take cases.

And the court takes about 55 or 60 of that 4000.

And we take cases in which there's been disagreement among the lower courts that needs to be resolved, so that there's one voice or cases that are of national importance that really require the court to weigh in.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So you take these cases and then do the briefs are filed in the cases that you agree to to listen to.

Do the justices talk about the cases before the oral arguments actually occur?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, there's no formal discussion between justices about cases until after the oral arguments.

Before then, each justice is working in his or her own chambers with her law clerks.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

And so you have the briefs.

Now you have the briefs from the litigants, but you also have these things called amicus brief, where friends of the court, the justices have time to read all these briefs, because sometimes you can have 100 amicus briefs, right?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yeah, there can be a lot of amicus briefs.

And no, I do not read them all, my law clerks screen them, and then they pull out ones that are helpful and actually give some good legal analysis.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So before you actually hear the oral argument, do the justices read the briefs and then they get some notes from their clerks, and then you go and listen to the oral arguments.

Is that right?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Correct.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And does anybody actually do a good job in the oral argument such that they persuade you to change your mind?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes, actually they do.

We've got some very good advocates and I have changed my mind in oral argument.

And even if it doesn't change minds on the bottom vote, it often really affects how we write the opinion and the scope of the opinion.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now, it used to be the case that justices were said to ask questions not so much to get answers, but to influence their colleagues about how they wanted their colleagues to vote.

Is that still the case?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Well, you don't talk to your colleagues in advance.

So when you're in oral argument, that's the first time you're all together.

And I wouldn't say that my own style is to try to persuade them.

But, you know, sometimes your questions do let them know how you're thinking.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now, do you ever have litigants in front of the court?

Do you say, I'm sorry for this person?

He or she doesn't know how to be a litigant in front of the Supreme Court?

You feel bad for them or they're not that bad lawyers in front of the court?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Almost all of the advocates who appear before the court are really first rate.

So it's very rare that I think, wow, that lawyer really could have done a better job.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And does anybody do such a great job that you are so mesmerized by their great legal advocacy?

You kind of want to vote for them just because they're such a great advocate.

Has that ever happened?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: You know, there are some advocates that are so fantastic and so mesmerizing that it's almost like you have to just shake your head so that you just stop being mesmerized and focus on the briefs.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So after the arguments are over, the court then meets was it once a week you meet in a conference to talk about what you're going to do?

Is that how it works?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Depending on how many cases we have, we meet either once or twice a week, and we gather in the conference room, just the nine justices, and talk about the cases.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So the chief runs the meeting, I presum >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: He does.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And does he say here's what I think.

And then you go down in descending order of seniority.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Exactly.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And so when you're the most junior member of the court, you get to talk last, but you get to know what everybody else thinks before.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yep.

>> David M. Rubenstein: All right.

So do you ever listen to the other justices and you change your mind after you hear all the others, or that doesn't happen?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: You know, I try to keep an open mind.

One thing that I try to communicate in this book is that every step of the decision making process is really important, and it matters.

So I go into conference knowing what I think, but I do listen to my colleagues and I will adjust what I think about how we should approach the opinion based on what my colleagues say.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So who decides who writes the opinion?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: The most senior justice in the majority.

If that's the chief justice, he's always the most senior.

And if it's Justice Sotomayor, say she might be the most senior.

I'm never the most senior.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Well, you're not going to be appointing anybody for a while.

Right.

Okay.

So let's suppose that chief says I want you to write the opinion in a case where he's on your side or whoever the lead, majority person is.

How long does it take to write an opinion?

Do you sign it to the clerks first, they give you a draft, and then you edit it, or you write it first and they edit what you write.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: My method is the same method that Judge Silverman and Justice Scalia used.

The clerk writes a draft first, gives it to me, and then I edit it.

Sometimes I rewrite it, sometimes I heavily edit, but I use I work from the clerks draft.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So I was not a Supreme Court clerk.

I wasn't a good enough law school student to do that.

To get a clerkship, how do you decide who picks who are the clerks?

Do you get the best law schools or the best students and the best law schools?

How do you decide who's a clerk?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I have a committee of former clerks of mine who screen all of the applicants, and they do screening interviews, and then they pass along to me the candidates they think I should interview.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And so after you have four clerks, is that right?

And after you pick the clerks and after a couple of weeks of working with them, do you say, oops, I made a mistake?

Has that ever happened?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Fortunately, I have not made a mistake.

My clerks are all excellent people and excellent lawyers.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And do the other clerks sometimes.

Are they so smart and so intimidating that they try to tell you what you should be doing, rather than the other way around?

Or they don't really tell you what to do?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Well, I want clerks to push back.

That's the reason to have law clerks.

If they're just always saying yes justice, yes justice, then they don't serve me well.

So they do debate with me.

But I'm the boss and they know that.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So let's suppose you write an opinion.

You then circulate it to the other justices on your side.

Or did all the justices.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: You circulate it to everybody.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Everybody.

Okay.

And the justices come back with comments and say, well, I could support you if you change it this way or I like what you've done here.

How does it work?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes, justices.

I mean, sometimes people will all just sign on right away, and that's a good day.

More often, justices say, well, if you were willing to make this change or that change, then I would be able to sign on to the opinion.

>> David M. Rubenstein: There was a justice ever like, say, can I come see you in your chambers?

He or she comes in and says, you know, I could support you on this case if you supported me on this other case.

Does that ever happen?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: That does not happen.

Each case is taken on its own terms, and there's no bargaining or cross dealing across cases.

That's just not fair.

And it would not be the way anyone would approach the job.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So the Supreme Court has been pretty good over many years for not having leaks.

There was a leak, famous leak not too long ago.

How have you changed the process to avoid leaks if you need to change the proces Or is it hard to get leaks out now because you've changed it in some way, or you haven't changed the process?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: We have changed our process.

We've had experts come in and tell us ways in which we can tighten things up.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And so when you make a decision, not suppose it's a decision, you're you're writing for the majority.

Do you read your opinion or do you summarize it in front of the public when it's announced that day.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: We do.

We give what are called bench statements And anyone who's in the court, and I encourage you all to come gets to hear the justice who wrote the majority deliver a brief statement of it from the bench to give a sense of the reasoning.

>> David M. Rubenstein: In the old, old days, you point out in your book that justices would read the entire opinion.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Oh, in the old days, I can't imagine how it would have been.

They would read the entire opinion, including footnotes.

That's part of the past.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So in the old, old days, the justices also practiced law on the side.

But that's nobody does that anymore, I assume.

So okay.

So when the court started tradition years ago, you hear cases beginning in October and you try to finish sometime in June.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: We try to finish by the end of June.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So what are the justices do in July and August and September?

Do they just kind of relax or do they go teach or they travel?

What do you do in the summertime?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Oh, everybody does something different.

You know, you're working really hard during the year.

And we continue working over the summer when motions are filed and things come up.

But people have a hard time taking vacations during the year.

So take vacations.

Teach.

I teach at Notre Dame in August.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now, the justices haven't had a salary increase in maybe 25 years or so.

You think that maybe somebody should look at the compensation level for justices or?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Would you like to talk to Congress for us?

>> David M. Rubenstein: If I have that much influence, but okay, I'll try.

So today, so let me ask you today what you are most focused on in terms of what you're doing in the court.

You're focused on on trying to get the opinions out on a timely basis and so forth.

But let's talk about the Constitution.

In your book, you talk about the Constitution, and one of the things you point out in your book is that you had 57 white Christian, property owning men who wrote up a document that is still the document we're living under.

And so there were no women, there were no minorities, and we're still living in.

How is it the case that a document can survive for 200 plus years, when it was written by people who are such a small minority of the country then and even now?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: You know, the drafting of the Constitution and its ratificatio has been called the miracle at Philadelphia.

And I think it really was a miracle, primarily for the reasons you say.

I think it has lasted because each generation has taken it, and making it its own.

We have amendments that have expanded the franchise, including women, including freed African American slaves and Blacks.

So I think equality has evolved over time because the Constitution has itself permitted change.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So today we've had relatively few amendments to the Constitution, but many of the court cases deal with constitutional rights and amendments and so forth.

Is that a 50% of the cases are are relating to Constitution, or that's just the ones that get the attention?

Most of your cases are relatively you point out in your book, most of the cases are a lot of cases are unanimous.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yeah.

Our unanimity rate is hovers just below 50%.

And then in that other 50% there are all kinds of configurations.

Lots of 8/1, lots of 7/2.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So the percentage of cases that are unanimous is roughly almost half the cases are unanimous.

So okay, so today when you have a case in front of the court, can you largely predict how people are going to vote based on their prior decisions or it's very hard for you to predict who's going to vote how?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: You know, people can be very unpredictable.

So no, it's not always easy to predict.

And I think one misconception about the court is that all the highest profile cases break down by the party of appointing president.

That's true of some because of jurisprudential differences and jurisprudential starting points that differ.

But it's not true of all.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So how is your life changed when you were in the Seventh Circuit, probably people weren't coming up to you for autographs all the time.

I assume maybe they were.

But when you're in the Supreme Court, you get a lot of attention.

So can you go to a restaurant without people kind of coming up for a selfie or that does not a problem.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: People are usually very, very polite.

If I am recognized in restaurants, they don't come and ask for selfies.

Sometimes people thank me for my service in the grocery store.

But not largely.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And do you find that your children treat you differently now that you're on the Supreme Court rather than the Seventh Circuit?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: If only they did.

>> David M. Rubenstein: They don't?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, no no, no.

I mean, if you would think that I would get any more respect by virtue of my position with my children.

No, I'm just mom.

And I'm Mrs.

Barrett to their friends.

>> David M. Rubenstein: What about your parents?

Your parents they call you and say we're proud of what you're doing.

And by the way, you should vote this way or that way, or they don't do that.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, they do not.

They're very kind.

They're proud and they're also very supportive through some of the more difficult points in the job.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now, you point out in your book that when you have family get togethers, you have like 50 people showing up at... >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Got a big family.

Yeah.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So you have six siblings?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Six siblings.

My parents have 34 grandchildren.

>> David M. Rubenstein: 34 grandchildren.

So when all 34 get together with your parents, where do you go?

I mean, you have a convention center yourself to have a meeting with them all?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: You know, my parents house, we're just kind of spilling out, fortunately into whether the... When we gather at Christmas time, the weather is warm enough.

We can be outside in the yard, set up tables in the yard.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And do your parents call you Amy or they call you Mr.

or Mrs.

Justice or how do they call you?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: They call me Amy.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Amy.

No deference?

No more deference?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No deference.

When I take vacations with my siblings, I do not get the first choice of the bedroom in the Airbnb.

[laughing] >> David M. Rubenstein: So if somebody is watching this and they are a young student who wants to be go to law school, be on the Supreme Court, what would be your advice about for a law school student how to get on the Supreme Court or be a good law school student?

What does it take?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Oh goodness.

I think that being on the Supreme Court, justice O'Connor once described it as lightning striking.

And I think that's very much true.

So I think it would be a mistake for any law student to adjust and shape their career just with that in mind, because the likelihood of it happening is like lightning striking.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So very famously, Justice Scalia and Justice Ginsburg were friendly, even though they were ideologically very different, but they bonded over opera and other things.

Are there other justices that you're really friendly with?

You go to socialize with or generally justices basically are too busy to be socializing with other justices.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Well, you're assuming that I socialize, period, with all my children.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Well, okay.

So where do your children live?

Now you live... Are you based here?

Are you based back in Indiana?

Where do you really live?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, we're based here.

We moved the family when we moved.

And so I have I like to think of it as four children that I'm still responsible for at home because they're in high school and junior high.

And then we have one college aged daughter who lives at home while she's in nursing school.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now you have seven children, two of whom you adopted from Haiti?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And what propelled you to pick Haiti as a place to adopt children from?

Had any connection to Haiti?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: We did not.

I think we were when we decided that we wanted to adopt.

And Haiti was then the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, and it was also close enough to the states that our family could visit and be involved if we wanted to, as opposed to someplace like China or Russia, which would have been much more inaccessible.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

Your youngest child was born with down syndrome.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And so you have special care, I guess, for that child.

But raising that child is taking a lot more time than raising your other children, I assume.

Or not?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Let's see.

We don't have special care.

We just have babysitting for him.

He's 13, but we can't leave him alone.

But yes, there have been more therapies and that sort of thing.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So what is the greatest part about being a justice on the Supreme Court other than interviews like this you get to do?

What is the greatest part about being justice in the Supreme Court?

You're getting to make decisions for your fellow citizens.

Is it dealing with your eight other colleagues?

Is it having your children respect you more?

What is it that... What is it that's the greatest thrill about being on the court.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I say this towards the end of the book.

I don't think of the court as, wow, am I really enjoying the job?

And what's the greatest thrill?

I mean, I really think of it as public service.

And so it's something that I am privileged to do for the sake of the country.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So when you're doing cases, how many opinions can you write a year on a court you personally would write how many?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Oh, gosh.

Well, we have between 55 and 60 cases a year.

And you usually, you know, just it generally the workload is easy dividing that by nine.

Sometimes justices write separate concurrences and dissents as well.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now, sometimes in recent years, some of the justices have written dissents that are not that favorable about the other justices opinions.

You probably have noticed this.

So does that mean that they don't talk to each other after they write these things, saying the other person didn't know what you were talking about, or they're still friendly, even though they say you don't know what you're talking about in the opinions?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, no, no, no.

One of the things that I try to point out in the book, and I think it's one thing that surprises people, is that the justices get along.

Justice Scalia used to say, I attack ideas, I don't attack people.

And that's how we function.

It's heated and there's a lot of debate on the page, but I think that you can be like Justice Scalia and Justice Ginsburg were, even though they disagreed really vehemently Often in cases you can be friends, you can be colleagues.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So sometimes you have one or two occasions you've written an opinion that some people thought was unlike what they thought you might have decided to write.

So how do you take that when people are criticizing you for what they thought you should have said?

Do you just kind of just say, look, I can't please everybody, or does that get you upset?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yeah.

It's my job to just do what I think the law requires, without respect to what kind of reaction it might elicit from the outside.

To do this job, you have to be willing to be unpopular.

So there's a little bit of an element of loneliness to it, because you never know who is going to criticize you or who is not.

But the job is to tune it out and do the right thing anyway.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So does your husband ever say, I don't want to get in the middle of what you're doing.

But I just read your opinion, and it wasn't so great.

Does he ever?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: He's extremely diplomatic.

I mean, and in fact, he doesn't always read the opinions, which, especially when I first started, was a little bit of a disappointment to me that he didn't read all of my opinions.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Right.

So when you come out with an opinion, do you ever find that later somebody said you made a factual mistake or you avoid factual mistakes by having an umpteen reviews before it was actually issued?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: We do have lots and lots of reviews, both internally with the clerks in my chambers, you know, and with the Courts Publications office.

So there are a lot of checks.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And so today on the court, would you say the collegiality among the justices is reasonably good or spectacularly good or just it's okay?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Oh, I think the collegiality is really good.

And I think at some points in history, you know, during the post-new deal court, it was actually pretty rough.

The justices, many of them weren't speaking to one another, and that is certainly not our position today.

I would describe it as good.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Well, there was a justice once who refused to talk to Justice Brandeis because he was Jewish.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes, there was also justices who refused we do a traditional handshake before we go on the bench for oral argument.

There was once a justice who refused to shake hands with another justice.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now, traditionally, the most junior justice on the court has two responsibilities.

One, when you're in conference, somebody knocks on the door, you're supposed to be the person that answers.

And do you ever get knocks on the door and you kind of wish they weren't knocking all the time?

Or do people really have some important message to give you?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: People rarely knock on the door inside the conference room.

It's only the nine justices.

Knocks do have to be answered by the junior justice, but most of the time it's because someone forgot something in their office notes that they need a sweater if they're cold.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And do the justices when they're in the conference, they ever raise their voice like saying, you know, how could you say something so stupid as that?

They don't do that.

They don't do... >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, that doesn't happen.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So also the other responsibility of junior justice, the most junior is to take care of the food at the court.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Oh, the cafeteria?

>> David M. Rubenstein: The cafeteria?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Yes.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So is that your responsibility to take care of the cafeteria food and people often complain.

It's not so great is that you?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Cafeteria food is pretty good right now because it's not mine right now.

It's Justice Jackson's responsibility right now.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Oh, really?

Okay.

So you had it for a while or.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I had it for a while during the process of a renovation.

And a Starbucks was the thing that I had really wanted.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So now that you've... >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: So we proudly serve Starbucks, obviously.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Now that you've written this book and it's coming out officially very soon, are you planning they're going to write another book or you just wanted one for.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: No, I think this is kind of a one and done.

>> David M. Rubenstein: One and done.

Okay.

And so today as you look at the judicial situation in United States, if you could redo the way our judiciary works, would you change it in any way that is realistic?

Or you think the judiciary system as it operates today is reasonably okay?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Now, the judiciary system as it operates today is essentially the same way that it's operated since the beginning, since the Judiciary Act of 1789, with some adjustments about numbers of courts and numbers of judges.

So I would say if it's not broke, don't fix it.

>> David M. Rubenstein: So if you could meet any justice ever who's ever served on the court, who would you like to meet and what would you like to ask him or her?

Did you ever meet Sandra Day O'Connor?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I did meet Sandra Day O'Connor.

Yes, she was amazing.

I got to meet her as a young law clerk.

And if I were talking to Sandra Day O'Connor, I would want to hear more about what it was like to be the first woman on the court.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Did she say it was easy?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Did she say it was easy?

>> David M. Rubenstein: Did she say it was easy to be the first woman?

Or she said.. >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I didn't get to have that particular conversation with her But if I could talk to her again that's what I would say.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And so today, if somebody is a litigant in the court and they're going to argue in front of you, what advice would you give them if they want to get your vote?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I would say to answer the questions that you're asked rather than following a pre-prepared script, and to be really earnest in wanting to help me and my colleagues get it right.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay.

So when you write a book as you've done, you're going to go talk to people and be interviewed about it.

And does that take a lot of time or it doesn't take away from actually responding to the court's work?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: Our term begins on the first Monday of October, so I'm only doing this for about the next two weeks, and then I'll be done and focused on the term.

>> David M. Rubenstein: You're not going to promote it afterwards?

No.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I think I have maybe like one or two civics podcasts after that in the evenings, but I won't be traveling.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Have you been able to get any of your children to read the book?

[laughing] >> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: My oldest daughter read it in draft because she's not a lawyer, and I wanted to make sure it was accessible to non-lawyers, and the others have not yet read it.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And what did that daughter say?

Said it was great?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: She liked it.

And she also did not hesitate to give me some advice about parts she thought I should redo.

>> David M. Rubenstein: And did your husband read the book?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: My husband did read the book.

Yes he read the book.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Did he liked it.

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: He did like it.

And he gave me good feedback as well.

He's a really good writer.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Okay, so just to summarize, we're out of time.

If somebody wanted to learn about the court, is your book the best book ever written about the court, and would you highly recommend it if they want to learn about the court for that reason?

>> Justice Amy Coney Barrett: I certainly recommend it for those who would like to learn about the court.

I will not call it the best book about the court ever written.

>> David M. Rubenstein: Justice Barrett, thank you very much for an interesting conversation.

Thank you.

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