>> Just ahead on Black Issues Forum, reading isn't just a skill, it's a lifeline.

And in North Carolina, one child's zip code can shape their literacy level.

We're exploring what it really takes to give every student the power to read and the power to rise.

Coming up next, stay with us.

>> Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBSNC.

(upbeat music) ♪ >> Welcome to Black Issues Forum.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

Today, we're exploring how literacy shapes the trajectory of our children, not just in school, but in life.

With recent debates about book bans, cultural representation, and funding cuts, we're asking the question, are we giving every child the right to read and to be seen in the stories they encounter?

Joining me are two women who are on the front line of this work.

Nicole Fenner is a best-selling author and founder of the Sister Girl Collection, which inspires girls of color through positive, empowering stories.

And next to her is Rhonda Houston, a veteran educator and literacy advocate dedicated to equity in North Carolina's classrooms.

Welcome.

>> Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

>> Of course.

This is such an important conversation.

We're all educators in some way, and I think we've seen kind of just a little bit of a decline when it comes to literacy agility among our students across the state.

Nicole, when we look at research, it shares that up until third grade, children are learning to read.

But after third grade, they're learning-- they're reading to learn, right?

And so, if a child has that foundational ability to read effectively and have those literacy skills, it takes them far beyond the classroom.

When we look at numbers from the pandemic, here in North Carolina, reading proficiencies in some counties are around 80%.

That's Chapel Hill, Carrboro, Camden.

But there are some counties that are reaching barely 35%, counties like Bertie and Edgecombe.

That's a really big gap.

>> Big gap.

>> Talk to us about what's happened since the pandemic to cause this gap.

>> Well, since the pandemic, a lot of children have not had the fundamentals.

So when it comes to the things where when they was at home with their parents or the things they need the help with, they didn't receive it.

So now, they're in third, fourth grade, and they're having issues with reading because they didn't learn the fundamentals when it comes to comprehension, sight words, and those different skills.

>> Rhonda, as a long-time educator, you've seen almost from every facet how reading impacts or lack of ability to read impacts a child.

How does it hinder a child in and outside of the classroom?

>> Well, what we're seeing now is, because of the pandemic, kids were at home, Zoom, and other issues.

But they did not get that one-on-one with the teacher in the classroom.

And if the parent was not able at that point to actually pitch in and help with those reading skills, our kids were with a deficit.

And because of that, I think that and other factors truly impacted our youngsters, losing that time within the classroom with a skilled reading teacher to help them at home.

Parents may not have been successful.

And because parents were not successful in some situations, that flowed into their children not having good opportunities also.

They didn't have the role models at home to help them continue that.

>> So talk a little bit about that.

So I know that you educate educators.

So what are the tools to make an effective teacher effective in literacy, but then at home as parents?

Not every student is lucky enough to have an educator as a parent.

>> Well, that can create many other issues because we have opportunities for our parents to come into programs if they did not graduate opportunities.

However, sometimes that will carry over for our youngsters.

But because we are teaching youngsters, we've got to find ways for them to compensate in the classrooms.

But the parents being the issue and the parents not being successful, maybe there was not a great desire for school.

Maybe they were not successful in their years.

That truly plays into how well our kids and the role models they have at home.

>> Yeah.

What are some solutions at home that you've seen that are effective?

>> I would say solutions having reading room, reading time, times when you just pick up a book.

I remember when I was a kid, it wasn't always that we had to read a book.

We may read the newspaper.

But now we have all the technology.

So everybody's on their iPad or they're just not paying attention.

So I would say just incentivize the children to read as well.

So if you do a book report, it don't have to be something long, but just say, "What did you learn?

What was the main idea?"

And then make it a family component.

Like say maybe we sit around after dinner and we read a magazine together as well.

So just kind of implement.

And then also I would say, say we're driving down the road, look at the signs, talk about it.

When you're cooking, look at the ingredients and make it fun.

Don't make it a chore.

Because that's what happens with reading as well.

The children feel like it's a chore and then they don't want to read.

>> I hear that a lot.

>> So you have to incorporate it in.

>> Yeah.

A lot of-- even again, I teach in the college classroom.

Sometimes you see that there's this hesitance to even read out loud a passage of a textbook, but it's because those fundamentals weren't taught or maybe reading just always seemed like it wasn't fun.

>> It's not fun and then sometimes it's a stigma.

Say if someone feel like they're not a good reader, then they shy away from reading.

So that's the thing to build stamina.

Take the kids to the library still.

It's still free.

>> It's still there.

>> It's still there.

>> Libraries do still exist, right?

Well, in June of this year, EdNC reported that North Carolina ranks 34th in the nation on youth well-being across education.

So these are factors like health, economic indicators, and across four domains, the state's best ranking was 23rd.

So the worst was in health outcomes, which was 36%.

So when we look at the intersection between health, economic stability, and then you look at literacy and education, how do those factors impact learning?

Rhonda?

>> I definitely see a huge integration with their success in the classroom, their health, their employment.

If parents were not successful in that setting, it flows into the perception that they give to their children.

It was not important to the parents.

Maybe I shouldn't say not important, but was not at the top of the list.

Parents parrot that, and kids see what's important.

I see mom reading the newspaper.

I see mom pulling out a book.

I see mom coming to the table to help me with my homework.

Those opportunities aren't seen in the home.

So since our children do not see that in the home, they take it, "Well, it's not as serious as it should be, "and why should I put more time into it, "and why is it important?"

But it is hugely important.

>> Right.

When we think about community impact on reading and the importance behind literacy, how you are both part of a church that has a literacy program.

So talk about how that plays a large role in faith-based communities.

>> That's a great question.

Our church, we actually did a two-week jumpstart for the summertime for the children.

I like that question because it brings the community in.

And it's not just the family, it's the community, it's just everybody knowing that someone actually cares.

So we implemented where the children came in, looked at the grade levels, and then if they need help with reading, if they need help with math, and then it's something that we're gonna continue to do, mentor, throughout the year as well.

>> And I don't want to ignore what's on the table here.

Your Sister Girl collection has become a staple, right, in the classrooms, in some homes.

And it's because-- can I pick one up?

>> Yes!

>> It's because our kids see themselves in the pages, on the cover, and it's beautifully done, right?

We see people of color represented in our text.

And talk about the importance of creating imagery that our students can connect to.

>> Exactly, well, one thing I can remember just going out and talking to families, right, and when they see a little girl that say to me, "Oh, my God, that's me in the book."

And that encourages children to read as well because they feel like they are part of the story.

And that's the main reason for the Sister Girl collection, to empower children so they know that they're valuable, and know that wherever they go, they can see a book that looks like them.

And in the classroom, well, I know right now, we have book bans and different things like that, and what's happening is different stories are getting taken out.

And it's not even just my stories like mine or anything, it's historical stories as well.

And stuff like Maya Angelou and Langston Hughes, and how are we gonna make sure that children continue to see themselves, because that's what inspired me.

But how are we gonna continue to inspire them, so that's one of my goals.

>> Rhonda, how have you seen representation impact students in the classroom?

>> Hugely, but I first wanna share one incident with my daughter, I have a daughter.

And pretty good student.

But for years, she would come to me and say, "I don't see myself in our books."

And to me, I know if my child was saying that, other parents heard that as well.

That, I believe, hugely negatively impacted her, especially our young girls.

Wanna see someone that looks just like me.

So, at a young age, I'll be honest and tell you, I took coloring pencils and I created a situation that was comfortable for her to see herself in the books.

So that's very, very important.

>> So, in a classroom where, I don't know that a teacher can do that, how do we combat that?

How do teachers, how do the school systems combat those book bans and the taking away of representation?

>> Well, it's difficult to color in the book, but you find other opportunities like scientists and other opportunities where there are people of color that our children can see and use as those role models.

That's hugely important that they see that.

But that's what I've done in classroom.

Or on special days, you just talk about that ethnicity and reading and how others who don't look like you still, but you have to create opportunities in other ways.

>> And also just implement into the curriculum.

That's one of the main things because it's different opportunities.

If you're talking about social studies or talking about science, or implement the books into the curriculum.

So we have to kind of work on, I've had a couple of county schools purchase the books.

We have to work on implementing to the communities and implement to the curriculum.

>> I think that's important, key.

Yes, you are mandated by the state of North Carolina to implement a specific curriculum.

However, that curriculum can be tailored to the students' needs.

And I think that enabling or empowering teachers to have that flexibility is also important too.

Now, what age group is this targeted to?

>> Five to eight years old.

>> Five to eight.

So when we talk about middle school and high school and even going into the college classroom, is it, I don't want to say too late, but how do we help them understand that representation does matter when they may have already formulated an idea that, "Hey, I don't see myself."

>> Well, it's about just trying.

At the end of the day, we have to keep just putting the books out there.

Like now, I'm trying to work on writing books for higher grade levels and more age groups and then having more cultural events where it may not just be a book, but it may just be an event.

And then maybe they can have the authors come to the school.

I was working with one professor where I was talking to the master's program for the library science.

So it's about how we can diversify the public library as well.

And then the classroom libraries and then the school libraries.

So we have to implement the books into the schools.

>> Go ahead.

>> I want to interject something.

Years ago, we started Black History Month.

And I think the purpose of that was for our youngsters to see people who look just like them.

But I think as years progressed, we've integrated more and more of that.

So it's just not a month, February as that month.

We integrate totally all the time.

>> And that's so important.

>> Yes.

>> Because we do realize that so much around us has been created by black inventors, black creators, and one month isn't enough for that.

>> Right.

>> So, yeah.

Many people don't, Rhonda, connect literacy with workforce development, with how far literacy agility impacts our ability to effectively hold a job, hold a conversation.

Share a little bit about that impact.

If we don't invest in literacy at a young age, how does that trickle down later on?

>> Well, if the background is not there for reading, which is the focus for almost anything that we do in this world, it's truly going to negatively impact the family, the youngsters throughout their life.

If they aren't seeing that role model in their parents being able to read and succeed, it flows into them.

It impacts their health.

Knowing what symptoms to look for, knowing, being able to read and communicate with others about what's happening in my world.

It truly impacts their employment.

The income that comes into the family, that's hugely determined by the reading level, the success rate in high school, or if there was college afterwards.

So, I would say it plays a huge factor in almost any aspect of a family or a race or group of people being successful.

>> Are there programs to help-- so let's say we are at a space where we didn't have that literacy foundation.

It is what it is, right?

We can't go back and change the hands of time.

However, are there programs to help maybe high school kids, young adults in college, to be able to acquire some of those skills to solidify, I guess, a more fruitful future?

>> It's primarily the community.

We're going to have to come together as a community and start implementing workshops and trainings, going to our local churches, going to the barber shops, going to the families.

So, that is something that I am thinking about.

And I know we have different non-profits that do reading that distribute books throughout the state, but we do have to work on programs to implement and mentor.

And I know with our church, we are currently doing that where we're mentoring families and helping them with, like, if the children need help with a community advocate, if they have an issue in school.

So, yeah.

>> That was the primary purpose our minister created, an education ministry.

This is the very first year for it.

>> And what church are the two of you members in?

>> New Hope Baptist Church in Charlotte.

>> Okay.

>> And it's an outgrowth of much thought and his vision, knowing the reading scores, knowing where our youngsters are, that he felt that we needed some source so that our youngsters could move forward within our church.

And we have embraced so many young people and helping with the reading.

They came into the church two weeks.

And this is something we're continuing the tutoring, working with them with math.

I had a parent within my church family yesterday call me, "My child is struggling in math.

How can we help?"

I quickly got on the phone, started calling my folks who are on my team.

This is who we need to reach out to.

And we're going to have to embrace that more.

>> Yeah.

And we see the links between literacy and, let's say, math, doing word problems, being able to articulate the answer.

Rhonda, talk about-- so you teach educators now.

What are some of those tactics that you're teaching them?

What are they having to relearn when it comes to literacy?

>> Most of the teaching comes within talking to teachers about how to ask questions.

Our youngsters don't like answering questions.

And sometimes, I believe there's a stigma because of how we ask the question and our kids feel put upon.

"Uh-oh, here, this question's coming to me," and they aren't quite able to answer it.

We've got to continue to come up with ways to meet kids where they are.

>> Right.

>> And move them forward.

If a child's sitting in front of you and you know that child has difficulty with decoding, why ask that child a comprehension question right then?

But being aware of the child's ability at that time because if we put them on the spot, they shut down.

>> You know, one thing I've noticed in the classroom, though, and I don't say this in a way that I'm not willing to help, however, sometimes the burden can be overwhelming as a professor because the skill sets that should have been learned in elementary school or in middle school, I'm now having to teach in college.

So that takes away from learning days, from group project days, takes away from a lot.

How does the system-- 'cause this is not necessarily-- yeah, I can take the time, I can sit down with the student after class, I can find hours to do the work, but this is a systemic issue now that we're seeing within the systems.

Are the schools or the community college systems doing anything?

Are the counties doing anything that you are aware of to help kind of combat what's happened since the pandemic?

>> Well, I know they have additional work they do with students, but like you said, sometimes it gets so far along that where do we get the help at?

And it kind of happened with just different legislation that came down that we kind of-- the kids kind of pass along.

And that's where we're at, and that's what we have to really focus on.

I'm glad we're having this conversation because now, we have to really be mindful 'cause how can a child get to eighth grade and do not have the basic comprehension skills that they need and did in college now?

So we're working on community programs and that's why I wanted to really speak about this.

>> Yeah, yeah.

I wanna share-- PBS North Carolina has many tools.

So when we look at what the mission is for this station, it's education.

That's our primary mission, even in this conversation.

And so, one of the tools that we have is Read-A-Roo Zoo.

So this is a PBS creation that's in partnership with Filament Games and Keen Research.

It's an online literacy game that teaches young learners to identify sounds in words.

Players explore different zoo habitats with their friendly guide, Read-A-Roo, and each habitat, they're asked to match words with similar sounds.

It's great for the classroom or at home and it can be played on most devices with internet connection.

You can always go to pbsnc.org and search for "Read-A-Roo" or use the URL that's at the bottom of your screen.

But how important are programs like this and organizations like-- not to honk our horn here at PBS, but how important is it for us to do this kind of work?

>> It's so important.

When I grew up in the eastern North Carolina and we had PBS, "Reading Rainbow," "Where in the World is Carmen San Diego," everything, "Mr.

Rogers," all of that impacted our lives positively.

And if we didn't have "Reading Rainbow," I don't know what we would've had.

And I remember the summertime just watching LeVar Burton and then just going to the library.

So we have to really make sure that we keep programs like that on the air for children.

>> Well, speaking of that, we know that there have been many cuts, large federal cuts, that have impacted our reach, especially to rural areas.

Rhonda, when we think about rural areas and access, already access to healthcare, access to clean water, now access to educational resources.

>> No child left behind.

>> Well, where'd that go?

So how far does this dig deep into rural communities and our black communities?

>> Well, the negative effect is much greater in the rural communities and people of color.

Because systemically, those two areas are usually at the back of the line when there are other cuts that in the beginning were positive cuts for them.

But with so many cuts and impacting that segment of people all the time, most of the time, eventually that catches up with the youngsters because they see the field and the home.

No child left behind.

>> No child left behind.

>> Yeah, and I grew up in rural eastern North Carolina, so I've seen firsthand the effects of living in a small school system and seeing other resources not being there.

But I would say that made us resilient because we pushed harder.

>> What resources were you lacking?

>> I would say since we had a smaller school system, sometimes it may have just been resources with different things to have that we didn't have at the time.

But sometimes we had lack of teachers.

And that was a major thing.

And we don't talk about it, but yeah, we had lack of teachers sometimes.

We had substitutes for maybe three to six months at one point in different grades.

So that would-- >> And that's been occurring more.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we're seeing more substitute teachers in the classroom, meaning more instability in the classroom.

Is there a solution to getting teachers better pay?

Because I know that that's the biggest issue.

>> I was about to say that.

>> Right, to have them consistently in the classroom.

>> That's the issue, the pay.

Until we make some adjustments with our teacher salary, we're going to always have those issues.

I don't know a way around it because it's financially based.

It's just-- >> And teachers of color, too.

>> Yeah, and teachers of color.

>> Yeah.

Are either of you working on the policy side, advocacy side to help change some of the laws, some of the decisions that are being made?

Or is that something you should be doing?

>> I should be.

I was working just trying to share more books.

And I want children to really see themselves because that's the goal.

>> That's the goal.

>> That's the goal.

>> So let's talk a little bit about these books before we end.

Tell us about each one.

>> Okay, so the first one, "Sister Girl and the Training Wheels," this is the first book I wrote.

And it inspires children to believe in themselves and believe in their creative abilities.

And I wanted to show positive family dynamics.

So like, I wanted to show a girl with her father because my father was very-- >> Who did the illustration?

>> I have an illustrator.

Her name is Abira Das.

>> Okay.

>> So this came out in 2016.

So next year will be the 10th year.

>> Yay, congratulations!

>> So I'm excited.

And then, the second book in the collection, "Sister Girl and the New Dress."

And this is with Sister Girl and her mom.

And she's learning how to sew.

So I want children to see themselves and use their creative abilities and know that whatever they want to do, they can-- if they have a vision, if they have a thought, they can bring it to life.

>> And where can we buy them?

>> Oh, at my website, sistergirlcollection.com.

It is available on Amazon, but I need you to go on sistergirlcollection.com.

>> Okay.

>> And also with "Sister Girl and the Family Dinner."

This is where I brought the mom and dad together as well.

And in the book-- >> The family dynamic, the unit.

>> Yes, we have to have the family dynamic.

And with that, you know, growing up in eastern North Carolina, my dad used to grow vegetables.

So Sister Girl learns how to grow vegetables, flowers, and at the end of the book, they have a dinner.

>> Nice, I love it, I love it.

>> Thank you.

>> And Rhonda, I know you're a big advocate for this.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Any lasting thoughts?

>> I'll just pick that up.

That's just something that's awesome.

>> Yeah.

>> To see them, to see little girls, even little boys, like them, themselves.

>> I love it.

Rhonda Houston, Nicole Fenner, I appreciate your work, your creativity, and for the conversation today.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> Thank you.

And I thank you for watching.

If you want more content like this, we invite you to engage with us on Instagram using the hashtag #BlackIssuesForum.

You can also find our full episodes on pbsnc.org/blackissuesforum and on the PBS Video app.

I'm Kenia Thompson.

I'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBSNC.