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♪ ♪ Rowland> Team Making It Grow is on the road as we visit South Carolina's world famous topiary artist.

Hello, everyone.

Thank you for letting us in your homes.

And welcome to Making It Grow .

A common sense approach to gardening in the Carolinas.

I'm Rowland Alston with Clemson University.

Pearl Fryar of Bishopville, South Carolina really needs no introduction in the horticulture world because his work has been displayed all throughout the United States.

And we'll take a look at his garden.

In addition, Pearl is going to teach me how to become a world famous topiary artist.

But right now, let's go ahead and meet the panel that will be taking questions from a live audience.

♪ ♪ ♪ [audience clapping] Well, I can tell you our panel needs no introduction because they are world class horticulturalists.

Amanda McNulty, County Extension Agent in Sumter.

Amanda, welcome to Making It Grow.

Welcome to Bishopville, South Carolina and one of the premier gardens of the South.

Amanda> Maybe of the whole United States, I think, Rowland.

Thank you for those kind words.

And, when you talk about the horticulturists, we're in the garden of "the" horticulturist today.

Rowland> And a little bit later on in the program, the professor is going to be giving the student just some little tips on how to become a topiary artist.

Amanda> Well, I'm going to be interested in seeing your report card after that Rowland.

We couldn't have a Making It Grow show in Bishopville, South Carolina without another artist, Bobbi Adams.

Bobbi is a Master Gardener and also an artist.

And some of your work is going to be shown in New York.

And Bobbi, I know you're quite proud of it.

Very briefly tell us about it.

Bobbi> Well, thank you, Rowland.

Yes, I'm going to have, a show at the Amsterdam Whitney Gallery starting May the 30th, and it will run through the end of June.

Rowland> Very good, very good.

It'll be the first time anybody from Bishopville has shown anything up there, won't it?

Bobbi> That's probably true.

[laughter] Rowland> And we have Trish DeHond, County Extension Agent over in Darlington.

Trish, I know you go way back in time with Pearl and you've really watched this garden evolve over the years hadn't you?

> I sure have.

I helped with some of the landscape design early on, but only had a very small part of the piece of pie.

And it sure is a beautiful day in a beautiful topiary garden.

Rowland> Well, I was talking to Pearl early in the day about, "Where do you take it from here?

I mean, how do you improve on something like this?

What do you add to it that you don't already have?"

And it's really hard to understand.

Trish> Well, it is, but what I've noticed is every time I come out here, there's something new and different that I haven't seen before.

Maybe a new birdhouse, a new sculpture, a new fountain, a plant that's been changed, slightly.

But, I think it's, a garden is always a work in progress.

Rowland> Right.

I think the thing that impresses me more about the garden and the plants and any of the topiary work is the fact that, Pearl is just so unselfish.

And he shares his garden, he shares his talents, he shares his skills with everybody because he recognizes he himself doesn't own it.

Trish> That's right.

Pearl is very generous.

Rowland> Well, we're fortunate to have a big audience here in Bishopville.

A group of Master Gardeners and people from all over South Carolina.

Webby Debby is not in the chat room right now, but she's with the gardeners.

Let's check in with Webby Debby and see what's happening with the audience, Deb.

Debbie> Well, Rowland, I am right here with one of my favorite gardeners, Mr.

Pearl Fryar.

Pearl, did you think ten, fifteen years ago that you'd be right here with a big, you know, TV crew in your yard talking about your beautiful garden?

Pearl> By no means.

How in the world would you think that with no gardening experience and starting out with a corn field and throw away plants.

Unbelievable.

Debbie> Well, for throw away plants, you've really done a wonderful job.

And where do you go from here with this garden?

Pearl> Well, one of the things that happened is the Garden Conservancy has made it one of its preservation projects.

And I'm one of seventeen gardens in the nation.

And we have a foundation.

And the foundation is to preserve the garden and to give scholarships to "C" students.

And I think that's a good purpose for the garden, and that's why I work, and this is what it's all about.

Debbie> And that's a good point, because not everyone is an "A" student.

And it's so thoughtful of you to think about all those "C" students and people that, that may be middle of the road and not have as high ambitions as they could have.

Pearl> Well, I think everyone is not gifted academically, and the only, the only people that we care about that's not gifted academically and could be an average "C" student, is athletes.

And if you are a "C" student and you're an athlete you're going to get a chance to develop your talent.

But if you're a "C" student and creatively, you're on your own.

And I think we have to take a second look at that because we are losing a lot of talented students, that's falling through the cracks and becoming incarcerated.

So we can find the money to incarcerated them but we can't find the money to save those kids when they're in school.

Debbie> And there's no telling how many kids have these talents that are, maybe latent, and someone needs to just pull those out.

And so this is a great program that you have, and we commend you on that as well as your garden.

Pearl> But yeah, not only that you can be talent in an area which you can't even afford your own talent.

So if you would really, if had not been for people that come along... I've put a lot of money into this garden but if it had not been for the people that really cared about it and wanted to make sure it was saved, it wouldn't be here today, anyway.

So people really cared and they donated to help save the garden.

Debbie> Well, a lot of people see what a beautiful place that you've created here, and it doesn't take a trained eye to see that you've captured not only your imagination, but your heart and your will to do good for other people.

Thank you.

Pearl> Thank you, that was so nice.

Debbie> Rowland, we're going to go back to you now.

Rowland> Okay.

Thank you, Deb.

I just wish that, Pearl would have had this program of "C" students 42 years ago when I started at Clemson as a freshman in 1966.

I've been on full scholarship, Amanda.

Amanda> Yeah, from what, from what I've heard some of the comments that you... even your mother had back in those days maybe there was a need for a little remediation.

Rowland> And maybe a little bit more money for the "D" students too.

Okay.

Alrighty, before we take any questions from the audience, we thought it'd be a good idea to show you Pearl's Garden.

Because without being here, you have absolutely no idea of the amount of work, the way the plants look and the effort that Pearl Fryar has put in his garden.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Well, that's just the tip of the iceberg of Pearl Fryar's Garden.

I do hope you get a chance to drop by if you're coming through Bishopville, South Carolina.

Like I said, he shares this garden, Bobbi, with everyone.

And, you know, when you travel downtown Bishopville, right there on Main Street, and Highway 15, you got Pearl Fryar's name written all over it.

Bobbi> You do.

Right in the middle, of the two blocks of the historic district.

Rowland> That's right, that's right.

Okay.

Webby Debby is in the audience right now.

She's got a young lady.

But first, I want Trish DeHond to tell us about this plant.

Because, Trish, you always come to Making It Grow with interesting plants.

And you got one here, that I think a lot of people would be interested in.

Trish> Well, this is a very common plant.

The blue rug juniper.

And I brought this one from Amerson's Nursery in Lamar because I got a call about some dead blue rug junipers or dying blue rug junipers here in Bishopville.

And it's very common for them to get spider mites on them.

This one is nice and healthy, but when we have hot, dry weather they get spider mites on them which are very, very tiny.

So you take a white piece of paper, wrap the branch, a little bit, and then you see if they fall down on the white piece of paper, and then you can see if they're there causing the problem.

Rowland> And sometimes we can control them with insecticidal soaps and not use any harsh pesticides.

Trish> That's right.

And they're... they're related to spiders and ticks.

They're not insects, but they're related to insects.

So there's certain insecticides you can use.

And Pearl has some beautiful junipers in his garden that are not these groundcover type, but, tree form and shrub form junipers that are very related.

Rowland> Okay.

Webby Debby is with us, right now.

Deb, who do you have and what's the question?

Debbie> Rowland, I have Margaret Atkins.

Margaret, what's your question for Rowland today?

Margaret> I would like to know, what is the best time of the year to prune Gardenias, and what is the best soil?

Debbie> Okay, Rowland.

That question is, "What is the best time of the year to prune Gardenias and what type of soil is best for Gardenias?"

Rowland> Well, the first part of that question I know I can answer, you wouldn't want to prune them, right now Webby Debby, because they're in full bloom.

And the Gardenias, especially the Dwarf Gardenias, are absolutely beautiful this year.

I don't know what, what happened this year?

Whether we forgot about April the 8th and didn't have that late frost and freeze.

Amanda> That's true.

Rowland> But, when we talk about pruning plants, Amanda I think it's real important, especially with some of our flowering woodies, because if we don't prune it at the right time, we can affect the blooms for the following year.

Amanda> And they say that a good rule of thumb is to prune after bloom, prune after bloom.

And so, so that's a good way to go about it.

And of course, as soon as these Gardenias start blooming, go out there.

And the one thing that you want is you always, especially a plant that you want to have flower, you want to get some sunlight to it, so you want to open it up some so that the sunlight and the air can get to it.

And then unfortunately with Gardenias, you usually have to do something about those old white flies because they can be such a pest.

Rowland> I tell you the white flies can be tough.

And of course, they're somewhat parasitic on the plant, not only on the Gardenias, but they just about get on any plant and cause that sooty mold.

Amanda> They don't seem picky, do they?

Rowland> No, they don't.

They have a full appetite.

And Trish, when we talk about soil for Gardenias, the Gardenias are fairly adaptable aren't they?

Trish> They are as long as the pH isn't really high or really low.

They're pretty, they're pretty adaptable.

They need a good bit of moisture.

They can't be in a real droughty, dry soil.

But they like a medium moisture level, normal pH level.

And another thing is, you can control the whiteflies by applying an insecticide to the soil.

Rather than spraying the plant.

You can use a tree and shrub insect control that won't harm the bees and butterflies and ladybugs.

Rowland> Well, I think you brought up a good point about the soil pH because I know some of the plantings that are very close to the house where the pH is real high due to some of the mixtures they use in cement.

It can cause an iron deficiency in the top of the plant, especially if that pH gets over about 6.2 to 6.3.

And you'll notice that fluorosis in the top of the plant.

And sometime gardeners think it's some other type of, nutrition deficiency.

But, the pH is important with Gardenias.

Trish> Yeah it is.

And you can get pHs is too high around foundation plantings.

That's very common.

Rowland> All right.

Once again, Webby Debby has a gardener from the audience, Deb.

Debbie> Rowland, I'm now with Kay Farmer, who has a question on one of our favorite South Carolina plants.

Kay> My question is, Hydrangeas, I am envious of those who can grow them.

And my neighbor has them, that does live in her yard.

But she doesn't know when to prune them.

So the question is, how do you plant them and when do you prune them?

Debbie> That's a great question.

And also soil is very important with Hydrangeas, Rowland.

So when do you plant hydrangeas?

When do you prune them?

And we want the prettiest blooms possible right here in Bishopville.

Rowland> Well Deb, I'm kind of envious of people who can grow good Hydrangeas too, because the deer eat all mine.

But Bobbi, the Hydrangea.

There several different types of Hydrangea we grow here in South Carolina.

And of course, the macrophylla's the one, really the dominant one that we have.

And if we do a poor job of, pruning in terms of time of the year, we won't have any blooms.

Bobbi> That's true.

And we always get that question this time of year.

"Why are my Hydrangeas not blooming?"

And it's because the person has already cut the flowers off.

And so with the macrophylla, the large leaf, Hydrangeas whether they're the lace cap or the, you know, big round puffball.

All> Mop-heads.

Bobbi> There you go.

The Mop-heads.

Amanda> If you did more housekeeping like I do, you'd know it.

That's a joke.

Bobbi> Are you telling me I've got a dirty house?

Anyway, you certainly don't want to, want to prune, Hydrangeas this time of year at all, or early spring.

Because you're cutting off the blooms.

In fact, I've heard, and I do this myself.

I leave last year's blooms on the plant.

And if it does get an April, you know, the eighth cold spell that old bloom protects that new little bud there... you know, that's right behind that dead flower.

Rowland> Okay, what do you do if the plant's too big?

Bobbi> Well, you wait, as Amanda said, until after it blooms, and then you can cut the flowers.

Both> Right.

Rowland> And one of the things about the Hydrangea, I think a lot of people don't realize they'll take a lot of shade.

Bobbi> They will.

In fact, for most people, it's better if they do have some shade because they really drink water.

And you put them out in the full sun, you'll be running the hose- No, they're dehydrating us, and they would not like that at all.

Rowland> Well, now, Bobbi, Webby Debby's got another question for us, but tell us about the color of the bloom and the pH because she mentioned about the soil.

Bobbi> Well, I was given a lovely Hydrangea back, early this spring, and it was pink, but I knew that it was in potting soil, which is neutral, pH probably about 6.9 to 7.

And once that's put in good ol' Bishopville soil, next year, it's going to be blue, there's no doubt about it.

Because of the acidity and the pH being lower.

Rowland> So the low pH is blue, the high pH is pink when you get up around 6.8, close to 7- Bobbi> Although there are some that are not affected by pH.

But those macrophyllas that are pink and blue are very definitely, yes.

Rowland> Back to Webby Debby, right now, for another question, Deb.

Debbie> Rowland, I'm with Vickie Moniz from, the Lee County Chamber of Commerce, and she has a question about fig trees.

Vickie> What is the best type soil to plant a fig tree, where it will produce big fruit?

Debbie> Rowland, what is the best place to plant a fig tree, to produce large fruit?

And Maddie had a question for Pearl, if we get him.

About how he gets up in and trims these large trees?

That's what she wants to know.

Thank you, Maddie.

Rowland> Okay, Deb, one of the things about figs, that I really like, it's a lazy man's fruit Trish.

We used to have that old variety called brown turkey, and a lot of people worry about pruning and everything.

But generally, about in February, if we just take out some of the old cane, fertilize according to the soil test results, you're going to pretty well make figs every year.

Figs are just bullet proof.

Trish> That's true.

They don't need a lot of pruning unless you need to control the size.

So the best place to plant a fig tree is look at a mature fig tree and see how big they actually get.

There's a pretty one here in the topiary garden with the bird houses on it.

See how big they get and give it plenty of room to grow.

And it doesn't need much pruning at all.

Just take out the dead and dying- And you know, if you need to control the size a little bit.

But I don't think they're picky as to soil type either.

Rowland> Well, no, they like fairly well-drained soil.

But one thing, the new varieties aren't as big as some of the older varieties.

Like the brown turkey was the dominant variety years ago, and the new varieties are more compact.

But one of the things that homeowners around South Carolina complain about all the time is "how you get rid of the wasps and how do you keep the birds out of them?"

It's almost impossible.

Trish> It is.

And, the birds, especially blue jays, like figs as much as we do.

You wait for them to ripen up, and those birds will come along and peck a hole in every single one.

So it's just a question of timing.

You just have to get to them before the birds do.

Amanda> You have to get up early and get out there and beat the birds.

<Right> Rowland> Well, Dr.

John Nelson, who's Director and Curator of the A.C.

Moore Herbarium in Columbia at the University of South Carolina, has the mystery plant for us every year, or every program.

He's not with us today, but Bobbi Adams brought a mystery plant.

So Bobbi, we're going... act like your Dr.

Nelson.

Bobbi> Oh, well, please don't do that.

Amanda> Ol' PhD.

over here.

Bobbi> PhD.

huh?

Rowland> Yeah, you going to have to give us some good hints, too.

Bobbi> Well, this is a mystery plant, given to me by Ralph Raley here in town.

I've been after him for two or three years for this, because he has a huge one in his yard.

And every spring I go around to that part of Bishopville And there's this gorgeous tree with flowers that range from a very pale pink to a burgundy.

And he calls it a peach plum, Rowland> Peach plum?

Bobbi> A peach plum.

And this is a baby he just dug up for me and, gave to me for the James House Garden.

And I don't know that it's a plum, and I'm not even sure that it's a peach, although the leaf does look like a peach.

What do you think, Trish?

Trish> I think it's something in that family.

It's in, the Rose family with peaches and plums.

And actually, I went on one of those carriage tours in Charleston, and there was a, what they called a "flowering peach."

And it was full of flowers that were different shades of pink.

Bobbi> It's absolutely gorgeous against a bright blue sky when you see this tree in the early spring.

Trish> Might be a type of flowering peach.

And peaches and plums are very closely related.

Bobbi> The fruit is not real edible.

It's a little small... you know, unappetizing looking fruit.

But the thing comes true from that pit.

Amanda> Isn't that something?

Rowland> Well, whoever named it peach plum, they must have been in to their fourth or fifth glass of wine late in the afternoon and they didn't know what to call it.

Bobbi> Well, I, you know, I'm just calling it by the local name, but I'm delighted to have one.

Because I just love all that variation in the flowers.

It's really gorgeous.

Trish> Why don't you let me take that home and I'll see what it does.

Bobbi> I will give it to you.

Trish> Thank you.

Rowland> You can report back to us whether it has peaches or plums, a little bit later on.

Back to Webby Debby right now with another gardener and another question, Deb.

Debbie> I'm with Christine Durden, who has a great question about Daylilies that we get quite often.

Good question.

Christine> I have some large clumps of Daylilies, and of course I know they're going to be blooming soon.

I need to divide them, so I don't know whether I should divide them right after they bloom or wait until the fall.

I have no idea.

Debbie> Okay, Rowland, this question is about when to divide Daylilies.

Now, later... when's the best time?

Rowland> Well, I think, she can take some annual leave and rest right now because I don't believe I'd be dividing any Daylilies.

Would you, Amanda?

Amanda> No, I wouldn't, I would certainly wait and enjoy them this summer.

Rowland> They're just starting to show their color.

Amanda> And it's going to be so tough on them, if this heat that's coming up.

So in the late fall after things have really cooled off, whatever month that is, then get out there with a shovel and bring them up.

And, you know, one of the nice things about Daylilies is they really are tolerant.

You don't have to worry too much about teasing apart if you break a little bit of it when you move them, it's going to be all right.

But remember, they grow quickly and so space them out.

Give them some room to grow.

Just like that fig tree you were talking about, Trish.

And, so I would put them back and I would dig them up in the later fall when things cool off, remembering that they like full sun and usually you've got some to give a neighbor.

Rowland> Well, of course the Daylilies are very tough plant.

And I think we've come to realize in the last 15, 20 years how drought tolerant it is.

Last week, I was going up to Nags Head fishing in North Carolina, and I noticed that the Department of Transportation in North Carolina, right along South Carolina, they use a lot of the Daylilies, in the, clover, four-leafed clovers and everything on the highways and everything.

Trish, it's just a plant that, it offers... really endless beauty in terms of color because people are always hybridizing them.

And at the same time, there are really not many pests bothering it.

Trish> That's true.

There are a few diseases, but usually that's because the plants are stressed for some other reason.

They need that full sun, well-drained soil, but they're a very tough plant and fairly easy to divide.

Amanda> And they grow so thick that usually they'll give you a lot of weed control too, which is always nice.

I don't like having to pull weeds, do you?

Rowland> No I don't like to pull weeds.

I'll tell you.

One thing about those Daylilies is they'll keep a lot of weeds down.

Amanda> They really will.

Rowland> All right, Webby Debby once again with another question from a gardener, Deb.

Debbie> Rowland, this is John McLaurin.

And he has a question about a terrible plant.

Rowland> I have poison ivy creeping into my Daylilies.

What is the best method of ridding this poison ivy?

Rowland> Oh my goodness, you got some problems.

Probably what I would do, is that I would buy some, glyphosate.

You probably know it by the name of Roundup, but it's sold under numerous trade names.

And I would buy the one that has, at least 4 pounds of active ingredient per gallon or preferably higher.

I understand they do make some 6 pound per gallon material now and I would mix a two to one ratio of it, of two parts water and one part, glyphosate.

And then I would get me some painter's gloves and I would stick the painters glove down in the solution, and then I would pull it on the, poison oak, poison ivy vines that you have.

And that way, you will kill the vines and you won't hurt your Daylilies, but you gonna have to really target, the weed itself.

And this is really a question, Amanda, we get quite a bit about weed control around the home landscape.

When you get out of the turf and you start, talking about in your flowerbeds and stuff.

There's just not many things we can do.

Amanda> Well, and you're right, I think what you described as you've got, instead of you doing the thing that we traditionally think of, where you just get your sprayer and spray everything.

You've really got to target it.

And so your idea about using the painter's glove, or sometimes people even get an inexpensive paint brush and they'll cut the stems on some things, and cut those, paint those cut stems.

And then sometimes you'll use a little plastic cover up the good plant.

And you know, as you make the application so that you're not getting any of that, chemical on your, on your prized Daylilies or whatever else you got there in the garden.

Rowland> Well, you have to be careful with it because you don't want it to drip on anything.

But those, the painter gloves really work real good when you can dip them down in there and just pull the plant.

Talking about plants.

My curiosity is about to kill me.

Trish, you've got something, next to you that's gigantic.

What is it?

Trish> This is goldflame Spiraea.

And, we talked about it earlier and referred to it as having sort of an eye popping color combination.

Especially next to the yellow pants.

It's got this chartreuse yellow-green- Rowland> But you calling it gold?

Trish> Goldflame.

<Okay> Because it gets more of a golden color in the fall.

Rowland> Wonder if the same fella that named that peach plum is naming the purple, gold and the gold, purple.

<Probably> Amanda> Drinking out of the same dipper too?

Rowland> Yeah, he's got the same glass of wine.

Trish> That's right.

And it's a hybrid.

And it has these pink, bright pink flowers and, golden yellow-green leaves.

And this is, there are a lot of nice deciduous shrubs.

Usually people like to plant a lot of evergreens.

And certainly if you're going to be doing topiary, the evergreen shrubs are excellent.

But it's always kind of fun to add something like this to your landscape and get a little color.

Right now we're sort of in between, after the azaleas and the Hydrangeas are just coming out.

So this is a nice way to add some color in a sunny spot in the garden.

And it doesn't get very, very tall.

Rowland> Almost looks like a blueberry bush.

If you take the flowers off the leaves are similar to blueberries.

Trish> It's actually in the rose family.

Amanda> But a great plant for people who like to do flower arrangements.

I cut mine a lot and it's very tolerant of being cut a lot too.

I can go out there and whack it and it comes back beautifully.

Trish> They hold up well in a vase.

<Yeah> Rowland> Bobbi, I know that, we did a story on your garden several years ago.

And of course, you had primarily a shade garden.

And this is a question, you know, we always get on Making It Grow .

What grows good in shade?

Almost total shade sometimes because, I don't believe you own a lawn mower, do you?

Bobbi> No.

Well, I own a push mower because a riding mower, my lawn gets smaller and smaller, thankfully, as I- Rowland> At least you're going green.

Bobbi> Yeah, I'm going green.

This is true.

But there is a Spiraea that will grow in and actually there are several Spiraeas that'll grow in really a lot of shade.

I've got a bridal wreath and it comes in both single and double forms, and mine is in full shade.

And then I've got a native Spiraea.

In fact, Austin Jenkins and I had a long conversation about this plant recently, Spiraea tomentosa.

He said, "is it really native?"

And I looked on the USDA site and it's native in five counties in South Carolina, five counties in the Pee Dee and one... up in the mountains somewhere.

But it will grow- In fact, the Spiraea tomentosa I have in my garden too.

Amanda> Does that have the pink flower?

Bobbi> It does have a pink, sort of a plume.

No, not a head like that.

It has a plume.

Amanda> I've seen that one growing by some waterfalls in Saluda, North Carolina.

Bobbi> Well that's probably, that's probably true.

But it's really a very nice plant.

Rowland> Well, you know, when you, talk about Spiraea, it's a plant that goes way back in the history of the Palmetto State.

Because some of our older homes and older plantations all throughout the state, they have some of the older Spiraeas there.

Bobbi> Right.

Especially the bridal wreath ones.

Now, the single and, the double.

And then there's another one that's called a blue Spiraea.

But it's not really Spiraea.

I had an argument with somebody about this.

Amanda> Sounds like, you argue a lot.

Bobbi> Well, you know, you get these names and I say, "well, I don't know if that's a Spiraea or not."

"Oh, yeah, the common name..." well, it is the common name is blue Spiraea.

It is a blue flower.

<Right> But it likes sun and it's caryopteris.

Trish> Blue mist shrub.

It's beautiful.

Rowland> If you don't know what it is, you can always call it a peach plum.

Bobbi> There you go.

[laughter] Alright.

That's enough for the peach plum.

We gonna let that lie for a while.

Right now, we're going back to Webby Debby, Deb.

Debbie> Rowland, I'm with Ed Turner.

And, you know, as long as we've been doing Making It Grow , one question that comes up is about grass, is centipede grass.

And as we look around Pearl's place here, we see so much centipede grass.

It's doing really well in this sandy soil.

But Ed, you have a question about centipede that's not doing well.

Ed> Ms.

Josey has a real lovely centipede yard, but she has dead spots in it.

And she's wondering, what maybe if they know what would cause the dead spots, if it's grubs or whatever, and if it's treatable.

and if it is, will the grass come back, or will it have to be replaced?

Rowland, that age old question.

Brown spots and centipede grass.

What to do, what causes it?

And will the grass need to be replenished, or will it cure itself?

Rowland> Well, Debbie, I'll tell you, dead spots in centipede grass in South Carolina are really about as common as fire ants, gnats and mosquitoes.

And, Amanda, we get this question all the time.

I think the first and foremost about centipede people don't realize it's a poor man's grass.

And when we say it's a poor man's grass, it doesn't require the care that we want to give it.

And the first mistake I think gardeners make is that, they try to change the genetic material of the grass.

They want it a dark green fescue, look.

Amanda> And it's more like this green in your shirt.

It's kind of an apple green.

Rowland> It's a pale green.

It's a pale green.

And so we put out a lot of nitrogen.

We don't recommend any more than about 3 pounds of a 16-4-8, say in the spring.

And another application, no later than July the first.

Just two applications a year.

Unfortunately, we have people that fertilize centipede all the way up into the spring months.

And another thing that concerns me is a lot of these weed and feed materials are very high, very high, in nitrogen.

20 something percent.

And they have a herbicide in it that sometimes can take the dogwood or azalea out or any of these shallow rooted plants.

And so we'll run into problems with that.

And then of course, watering.

Amanda> Oh, gosh, water, water, water, too much water.

Rowland> We try to float it out the ground and make it a Lily pad almost.

Amanda> When really in most soils, during the growing season, you need one inch of water a week.

Now, if it gets real hot, you've got to do more.

If you got a real sandy soil, you might have to split that up.

But, Rowland, we had a report this morning that came back from the plant problem clinic.

Diagnosed large patch on centipede grass, and the people had told them how much they water.

They were watering every day for 15 minutes in the morning.

And they had just, they'd kept that grass wet, they hadn't cut it back in the wintertime.

And the poor grass, that fungal infection just grew and grew and caused all that large patch.

Rowland> I think the best thing that could happen to just about every homeowner in South Carolina is for the timer on their sprinkler to break.

Amanda> To go bad.

Yeah, yeah.

Rowland> Just break.

There's several things that I think, we need to recognize about centipede.

It is a parasitic nematode.

The ring nematode is very parasitic on the centipede.

Amanda> And is that worse in sandy soils, Rowland?

Rowland> Yeah, it is.

They run a little higher in the sandier soil.

And one of the things that we're noticing is some of these centipedes, centipede lawns that are say, 20, 25, 30 years old, and we've had a lot of football games, and the kids have played there and people have parked, and the soil is compacted, we're getting a good response from, core aerification and verticutting, just like they do a golf green.

And Trish, that just opens up the soil so it can breathe.

Trish> Sure it does.

Uncompacting the soil is great for, lawns.

And another thing that people do is they don't mow short enough.

And I really liked, to use this garden as an example.

It has an excellent lawn that doesn't have an irrigation system.

There's not a big input of fertilizer and water and those kind of things.

But it's beautiful and it's cut to a very short height.

Rowland> And to get back to really answering the question rather than doing around the question.

If she's got dead spots, really, all we can do is to take a soil sample and a nematode sample from the marginal area where it's not bad, but it's not growing good.

Send it to Clemson and have it checked for the pH.

Have it checked for potassium.

And also for any parasitic nematodes.

Trish> Right.

And then follow your centipede grass maintenance calendar.

And try to do everything right.

And you'll probably have a beautiful, healthy lawn.

Amanda> And take that, undo that timer.

And just water when you need to.

<Right> Rowland> Right now we need to go back to Webby Debby because she's busy with a lot of gardeners, Deb.

Debbie> Rowland, I'm with Geraldine Strickland.

And Geraldine's not too happy about something that's going on in her garden, because she's trying to grow one of the South's favorite plants, Camellias.

Geraldine> I want to know if there's anything short of sitting up all night with a shotgun to keep the deer out from eating my camellias?

Debbie> You hear that Rowland, the deer, eating all the camellias.

We just can't have that.

Do you have any great ideas?

Rowland> Oh, goodness, I think I heard that one loud and clear.

She's got some hungry deer because generally I don't think Camellias is a preference for the deer.

But we've got to go to our Camellia expert Bobbi Adams, who has renovated more Camellias in Lee County than anybody else, especially around the James House, she's got Camellias going back.

Well, going back to the time of the war between the States.

Bobbi> Well, I don't know if they're that old, but there are some very old varieties in that garden.

I heard one thing recently that is a possibility to keep deer out of any flower bed, and that is to use Milorganite.

And Milorganite is, how would you describe it?

Amanda> Byproduct of the sewer plant.

Bobbi> Byproduct of the sewer plant.

It's perfectly safe to use in a flower bed.

It's not, of high fertility, but evidently the scent that only the deer smell- I mean, if you put it on your garden, you don't smell it, is a deterrent.

And I've heard that recently.

And since I don't have deer in the James House Garden, I'm not sure that it works, but I think it's worth a try.

Rowland> Okay, let me tell you that there's a gardener right between, Rembert and Camden on Highway 521, Rigdon Boykin.

He's a retired lawyer and really came down here from New York.

And, he's out in the country, and he uses the Poconite.

Which is a material- Amanda> Certified South Carolina.

Rowland> What the city of Sumter uses.

They take it from their wastewater plant.

It's a solid material, and it's solidified and it's an organic material.

He swears up and down, by it.

<Right> So, would it work, Amanda?

Amanda> It certainly will.

And, Luther Banks Wannamaker over in St.

Matthews where I go home every night, grows those wonderful lupines that they advertise as ice cream for candy.

And the only way that he can grow them is to put out that Poconite.

And I was kind of joking, but really, it is buying Poconite instead of Milorganite, which is from Milwaukee.

The Poconite is a local product.

And we in Sumter would love to get your money.

[laughter] Trish> So deer don't like the smell of humans.

And, some people put up bags of hair that they've gotten from a barber shop.

Rowland> I couldn't afford much.

Amanda> You better take the Poconite route.

Rowland> Yeah, I better use the Poconite.

All right, let's go back to Webby Debby right now and see if she has another question for us, Deb.

Debbie> Rowland, I'm with Linda Hamm, who's trying to grow Amaryllis, and they have very beautiful blooms, but other problems.

Right, Linda?

Linda> This year, I've had more fronds on it than usual.

I think that's the correct term.

And, someone told me that the bulb is splitting, and I want to know what I should do to be sure that it continues to be healthy and produce blooms?

Thank you, Linda.

Rowland?

Rowland> Well, Amanda, Amaryllis is one of your favorites.

Amanda> It is.

And they do split and I don't worry about it because they're just getting bigger.

They really do wonderfully well in our South Carolina gardens.

And you start off with a little one, and before you know it, it gets bigger and bigger and then whoop, you have two.

And so I think that's probably what's happening.

And that's just a sign that she's doing a great job with them.

One reason that happens more with Amaryllis than with things like Lilies, because when you cut a Lily, you're cutting all the leaves off.

With an Amaryllis, all the leaves are at the bottom.

So when you cut the flower, you're still leaving all that foliage to photosynthesize and build up the bulb and help it get bigger and bigger every year.

Rowland> Well of course, Amaryllis is very popular.

And so many people now are bringing in trying to bring in Tulips and getting Peonies and other things to grow in South Carolina.

And, with this, so-called "climate change" we're having, it's gonna be harder and harder too.

Amanda> But an Amaryllis, deer don't eat them because I have deer all over my yard, and they eat the okra and they eat the Hydrangeas, and they eat everything else, but they leave the Amaryllis alone.

Rowland> Well, you remember one thing.

A deer is kin to a billy goat.

Amanda> He will eat anything if he's hungry enough.

Rowland> If it's green, if it's a John Deere tractor and he gets hungry enough, he's gonna lick it.

Amanda> You're right.

Rowland> Okay, we're going to take some more questions.

But first we had the opportunity to visit with Pearl and it was quite a visit.

You know when you talk about, topiary work you cannot talk about anyone in South Carolina but Pearl Fryar.

Well, I went to Pearl, and I said, "Pearl, I'm the student, and you're the Professor.

We've got to take a plant.

You've got to get out your hedger and you're gonna have to show me how to do it."

I want you to take a look now at how the professor taught the student how to be a topiary artist in a short order period of time.

♪ Pearl, I know you get this question all the time.

How do you do it?

Did you learn how to do it?

Is it just a natural gift?

Pearl> Well, basically I'm, I'm gifted creatively, but a nurseryman gave me a three minute lesson how to cut the two tiers and the two balls.

And I took the three minute lesson turned it into what you see today.

Rowland> Well, you're getting ready to give me a lesson and we will see how good I can do.

But first, do you always use a blue point juniper.

Or do you like other plants?

Pearl> Well, I do like the columnar juniper, blue point juniper is good but the columnar juniper grows fast and it doesn't die as much on the inside.

Rowland> Well, now does it make any difference the time of the year when you prune these evergreens.

Pearl> Not really.

And you also have to take into consideration I don't go by the book.

So I prune 12 months a year and during the winter months are the time I get caught up.

So if I want to prune or cut a plant, I'll cut it in December or January as quickly as I'll cut it in July.

Rowland> Well, since it doesn't make any difference, we've got the professor and now we've got the student.

Let's get started.

<Okay> Tell us what we're going to do first?

Pearl> Okay.

What we're going to do is comb this plant.

And once we get it, combed, we're going to cut a spiral or the corkscrew as people call it.

And, this should take us about five minutes.

So you're going to get a five minute lesson.

The way I got a three minute lesson.

So the end result should be acres and acres of topiary.

[laughter] Rowland> Alright.

Well, let's see what's going on.

♪ Pearl> I'm gonna give it one stroke... ♪ [engine revving] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [engine humming] That's not bad.

You're good.

[engine stopping] Okay.

Rowland> Pearl, how'd I do?

Pearl> Fantastic.

If I could afford you, I'd hire you.

[laughter] Okay, the next thing now, because we've got a nice comb, we have all the excess foliage, the branches that were falling over.

The next thing is now, is to cut this at an angle.

See the main trunk in here?

The idea is eventually to get it, to cut to that trunk with that angle.

And you maintain it all around you.

And as you, as it grows, when you're pruning, you prune into the trunk.

This is the first cut.

Rowland> I may need some help on this one.

Pearl> But you're on your way.

{engine starting} ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Rowland> Pearl this is kind of like a good haircut.

If you got somebody who's got a lot of hair like I do, or you.

If you make a mistake, it'll come back, and this will come back, if we make a mistake.

Pearl> I don't have a lot of hair.

So if I make a mistake, I imagine it won't be back.

Okay.

Here's what we'll do.

I want to really now, we gonna really bring that spiral in there because we got it where we can see.

So now I'll come in here... [engine revving] [engine continuing to rev] You see?

See, now I have separated it.

<Right> As you turn it, now, the next cut will be below here.

And we come right in here and there.

Then we'll have the spiral... go back in and really clean it up.

You want me to do it?

Rowland> Yeah, I rather you go ahead and do it because I want to see if you know what you're doing.

[engine revving] [engine revving] Well, as a student to my professor, what grade did I get?

Pearl> You got an A-plus to be honest.

[laughter] Rowland> I wish I made those good of grades in college.

Pearl you're a real sport.

And I certainly appreciate you showing us this.

You're a very talented individual.

And we all proud of you here in South Carolina.

Pearl> Well, I have enjoyed you over the years, you've helped make me so I really appreciate it.

Come back, anytime.

♪ Rowland> I don't think Pearl Fryar has got to worry about any competition from me do y'all?

[laughter] Amanda> I think he's safe.

Rowland> Okay, before we take another caller.

We've got the Iris Festival coming up in Sumter.

And Bobbi, you have an Iris plant that's not doing too good.

Bobbi> Well, actually, I dug it this morning in the hopes, I could get it here to show this wonderful, purple towards black color, which I think you can still see, even though it's kind of droopy at this point.

But this is a native plant.

This is a Louisiana Iris, and they're using it in South Carolina at waste treatment plants because it removes, heavy metals from, water.

And this happens to be a cultivar called Black Gamecock.

And I brought this for my friend Jennifer McCutchen, who's sitting out there in the audience because she saw it when it looked good and decided she'd like to have a piece.

And I think if she keeps this moist, it'll grow wonderfully well in her garden and bloom next year.

Rowland> Well, very good.

Bobbi> It's about finished for this year.

Rowland> So all Gamecocks ought to have it?

Bobbi> All Gamecocks ought to have it.

And she happens to be one too.

Amanda> Now, the Louisiana Iris even though it's a native is like the Japanese Iris in that it likes a boggy condition is that right?

Bobbi> I actually planted my Louisiana Red out in the dry flower bed and didn't know if it would do.

And it does fine.

And this one's in my front flower bed in the full sun and dry conditions too.

But I think you can also put it in bog.

Amanda> I think it's a good one for those people who have water gardens.

Bobbi> Yes, yes it is.

Amanda> It is a beautiful color.

Rowland> Okay.

Back to our questions, Webby Debby's got a young lady, Deb.

Debbie> Rowland, I'm with Sylvia Davis.

And Sylvia has a visitor in her garden that she just assume not have.

Sylvia> Yes.

I'd like to know what the difference is in moles and voles?

And how do you get rid of either or both?

Debbie> Great question, Sylvia.

And I know Rowland has a good answer for you.

Rowland> Well, moles and voles they travel in the same little old hole or tunnel don't they Trish?

Trish> They do.

Voles eat plants and moles eat insects and worms.

So moles are carnivorous.

And, the vole is actually similar to a mouse.

It has, normal eyes and ears and it runs across the ground.

But generally we have in this area the Pine vole and it tunnels around under the pine straw, which we have plenty of.

And it eats, one of its favorite plants is the Hosta and other ornamental plants.

So there are certain plants that are sort of vole proof that they won't eat, like daffodil bulbs, Amaryllis and, the Lenten rose or Helleborus.

Rowland> So what do we do?

What do we do?

Trish> Well, you get a cat.

[soft laughter] Rowland> Okay.

If you don't like cats, if you have a dog, and the dog doesn't like cats what do you do?

Trish> You can also put out repellents and there are some bait products that you can use for the voles.

Or you can try to use vole proof plants, or try to outsmart the voles and put your Hostas in pots and that kind of thing.

The mole tunnels around in the turf grass and causes the damage to the grass, not by eating the grass, but by pushing the roots up and it dries out.

So they're actually eating grubs, which are not beneficial to the grass, and they're eating earthworms, which are.

So most people, get very frustrated with the mole, which, has, no visible ears, and the eyes are closed and it has paddle like feet, sort of like seal flippers.

They both, both the vole and the mole have soft gray fur, so they're easily confused.

Rowland> Kind of like a peach plum again.

Trish> Right.

[laughter] The mole, unfortunately, the best way, if you really want to control it is to use a harpoon style trap.

Which, you know, will annihilate the mole and, then other moles will move in from the surrounding areas.

So it's very frustrating.

Amanda> Cat sounds better and better.

Rowland> Yeah, cat does.

Get rid of the dog and get a cat.

Alright.

Back to Webby Debby, Deb.

Debbie> And Rowland, You know, going out this spring and seeing lawns, there's been so much mole damage this year.

And you can, if you have erratic patterns that are all looking crazy and your centipede lawn.

Chances are you had a mole there earlier, or you have one now.

And they can be very disruptive to your centipede grass.

I'm with Nancy Thornton, who has an interesting question for us.

Nancy> I have a big, big Peonies plant in my yard.

And when it blooms, it only blooms one bud.

How can I get multiple blooms from it?

Debbie> And this is a Peony plant?

Okay, we want multiple blooms from the Peony plant.

How can we do this?

Amanda, I know with that Maxima Festiva that you grow, you've got some great advice for us.

Rowland> Well, Amanda, one thing... if she doesn't put a bag of ice on it pretty soon, this hot weather is gonna get it.

Amanda> Boy, that's the truth.

It's really amazing that we can grow some Peonies down here.

I don't know what variety Nancy's growing, but, some of them just don't perform well in the South.

But one of the things that you can do and you can't do it now, but if she wanted next November or December, if she wanted to go out there and lift it and be sure the higher it is in the ground.

Those little buds that are little red buds should be right on top of the surface.

And another thing to do is, you know, we say mulch, mulch, mulch, mulch.

Well, don't mulch your Peonies because they want to be cold, cold, cold.

So in the summertime you can have a mulch on them to help conserve the soil moisture.

But then in the winter, take that mulch off and just let them be as cold as they can possibly be.

Bobbi> Another thing, I did this before I knew much about Peonies in the South.

Coming from the North, I knew that you had to double dig.

And so my husband went down two feet, took out all the soil, and we filled it with compost.

And for years, I had 30 or 40 flowers per plant.

Now, of course, the compost is gone and I need to lift those Peonies and do it again.

Or what I've gone to is I've put them in a pot.

Amanda> Which makes them colder in the winter.

Bobbi> Which makes them colder in the winter.

But I also can throw the fertilizer on them and change the soil more easily because I'm beyond the stage of digging holes 24 inches.

Amanda> You need a new husband.

[laughter] <Double digging> [laughter] Rowland> Well, our time is winding down, but, we've got to check in with Webby and Debby right now because she's got a very special guest.

One that, I know she's quite proud of, Deb.

Debbie> I'm here with Whitney Crawford, my granddaughter, and she has a question about ladybugs.

Whitney> Why is there so much ladybugs?

Debbie> Rowland, why are there so many ladybugs around?

Rowland> Well, Whitney that is a very good question.

The ladybugs are our friend, they just they consume a lot of eggs.

Especially those eggs that's laid by the heliothis complex, the worms.

And the ladybugs, Amanda are really our friends, just like the honeybee.

And we need to have as many ladybugs around a garden as we can.

When we see a lot of ladybugs, we don't see a lot of bad bugs, do we?

Amanda> That's true.

And I think Whitney sees a lot of ladybugs because her grandmamma has one of those wonderful gardens where she doesn't go out and put a lot of pesticides out.

And so she relies on the natural balance of life and so, that's just a happy situation for Whitney and for those little ladybugs.

Rowland> Well, Our time is about up.

I certainly appreciate y'all taking the time to be with us here at this fabulous garden.

And we certainly want to thank Pearl, once again for sharing his garden with team Making It Grow , and sharing it with everybody in South Carolina.

Trish, I know you're going to be heading back to Darlington, but every time you come to Sumter and every time you're on Making It Grow , you always make a stop in Bishopville and visit Pearl, don't you?

Trish> Yes I do.

I love the topiary garden and I love Pearl, and we're just really happy to be here.

Bobbi, appreciate you coming once again and taking the time.

We'll be seeing you next week in the studio back in Sumter.

And, we certainly wish you the very best of luck as you show your art and you work up in New York.

and we all proud of you in South Carolina.

<Thank you> And Amanda, I'll see you tomorrow right, in the Sumter County Extension Office.

Amanda> That's right, chief.

Rowland> Alrighty, let's check in with Webby Debby and Deb, we'll tell you good bye too.

Debbie> All right, Rowland, thank you.

And I just wanted to say goodbye to Pearl and thank him as well.

And, we won't have time to ask him that question, but the most common question was, "How does he prune all this?

And how long it takes?"

Pearl> Well, it takes me approximately... six weeks to get over the whole place.

By that time, it's time to start all over again.

Debbie> See, Rowland it never ends.

Thank you Pearl, we appreciate it.

Rowland> Okay, we certainly want to thank our audience for showing up here at Pearl's house in Bishopville, South Carolina.

Always a great group and good to hear from them.

Good to see them, as they travel all around South Carolina.

Want to remind you will be back on the air in the studio next week.

That'll be Tuesday at 7:00.

We'll be coming to you live from the ETV studio.

Will be talking to a gentleman down in Charleston about some hydroponics.

That's a different way of growing some plants.

Also, I want to remind you about The Best of Making It Grow .

It comes on every Friday night at 7:30.

I invite you to join me as we relive some of the colorful video segments of Making It Grow .

It shows the uniqueness and diversity of South Carolina.

It's such a small state, but when it comes to people, when it comes to plants, when it comes to places and things, well, the Palmetto State is certainly second to none.

So don't forget about The Best of Making It Grow on Friday nights at 730.

And we always come to you at 7:00, live from the ETV Studio in Sumter.

We'll see you then.

Happy gardening, everyone.

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