- I don't think that local control is more important than the fact that 40% of our people cannot afford to live.

- We're seeing Portsmouth come up with this legal challenge and not actually talk about the actual issue, which is more affordable housing for residents.

Is local control spurring affordable housing?

It's just not.

- Providence, Central Falls, Woonsocket, the places where people can afford to at least rent an apartment are just flooding the school systems, costing millions and millions of dollars.

Losing these two hospitals could be a serious, serious blow to healthcare in Rhode Island.

- What's scary is six months from now, these hospitals could be completely insolvent.

(lively music) - I'm Jim Hummel, and welcome into this episode of "Lively."

We're joined this week by our two political contributors, Don Roach and Pablo Rodriguez.

The General Assembly has passed more than 60 bills over the past several years aimed at making it easier for developers to build housing, specifically affordable housing.

This week, one community is pushing back saying the state is steamrolling local control and it filed a lawsuit to back up its allegation that it is unconstitutional.

Don, we were talking before air.

I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier.

- Yeah, I think I agree with the towns- - And this is Portsmouth.

- Right, in theory.

However, if you look at the numbers from like last year, we had over almost 3,800 new units, which was I think the most new units in a year for, I went back 10 years and couldn't find a year that was higher than last year.

And the number of five units or more, where the permits were requested, was over double what it was in 2024.

So- - So it's working.

- It is working, but logically speaking, or I can't even say, maybe legally speaking, it may not pass the sniff test so that the cities and towns may have a leg to stand on, but then we could go back to not having, seeing development and not having the affordable housing that we need.

- So Portsmouth files a lawsuit this week.

They've asked other communities to join and I think they need some money to also help them.

But they've said, "Look, you're really kind of, you're taking away our control of zoning board, planning board, all that master development.

We're missing some steps."

- Yeah, I think that of all the counts that they are suing for, the strongest one is about the comprehensive plan, you know, where the state tells you that you have to have a comprehensive plan and then they pass a law that goes against your comprehensive plan.

So which one is it?

I think that's the one that is the most likely to succeed or be able to be changed.

But all 60 bills are not going to be taken back.

The problem with Portsmouth is that it's the most expensive community in the state.

You know, it takes $2,612 a month for housing costs for anyone trying to live there.

The housing wage is $46 an hour.

So if you are a minimum wage person or a minimum wage couple, you cannot afford to live there.

And there are consequences for communities when the workers cannot live in the communities that they serve, especially if they have to drive with the cost of gas.

It increases the costs for everyone.

So people need to understand that housing is not just where people live, it is actually economic development for a community.

- Yeah.

And also the question we have to ask, is local control kind of spurring affordable housing?

It's just not.

And we don't have a lot of history with kind of like our new post 60 bills legislation era, but we do have at least a couple of years and we are seeing increases in housing.

And so, do we want to go back?

Do the cities and towns want to say, "Hey, give us back control so we can not produce- - And we can muddy up the waters, right?

- New units, right.

- Yeah, go ahead.

- No, no.

I was going to say that, you know, when you look at the whole state, the Standard of Need, which was published this week by the Economic Progress Institute shows that 40% of households in our state cannot afford minimum basic needs.

So that's a lot of people that cannot afford to buy a house, to even rent an apartment or a house.

So we do have a problem that needs to be solved.

And I don't think that local control is more important than the fact that 40% of our people cannot afford to live.

- There's generations though, you know, this is so typical in Rhode Island, things that have been building up over decades that you're trying to solve in a relatively short period of time.

The cost of doing business for developers.

Now, I understand this is supposed to streamline the process, but Rhode Island has been pretty unfriendly in terms of, well, prevailing wage, and you can argue whether you need that or not, but also just the red tape and everything that developers, they're not lining up because it's easy to build housing in Rhode Island.

- Right.

And I've said on this program for many a years, if we can find a way to do it wrong in Rhode Island, we'll do that.

(Pablo and Jim laughing) And anytime- - Should be our motto.

- Right.

And anytime we do something maybe even, I can't even say it's right, but it's better than wrong, we'll find a way to try to do it wrong again.

And so, I feel like, again, legally speaking, the cities and towns probably have a leg to stand on, but can we take a step back and kind of look at more of the macro level and say, "We need affordable housing in this state.

And so, if these bills or this legislation is helping us do that, why don't we try to continue that versus kind of like move backwards?"

- No, we need to.

We need to.

And I've always said it in the show.

In this state, we have a long-term vision with a one-year budget.

(laughs) - Yeah, you got to look at the larger issue of where it's going.

I also, you had touched on something that I think is gonna be a problem.

You look at Narragansett, you look at Little Compton, and you look at how relatively small school systems to begin with, who with young kids can afford a house unless they're inheriting one?

And so, the ripple effect on the school department, you think about down there, the high school was 10 years ago was only 400 kids.

So, what is that going to mean for education in towns where people can't afford to buy houses?

- Well, what's happening, what's happening right now, which is that, you know, school districts that can least afford an increase of poor students are getting those students.

So, you know, Providence, Central Falls, Woonsocket, the places where people can afford to at least rent an apartment, you know, are just flooding the school systems, costing millions and millions of dollars.

- I guess it comes down to the question, can we get more of a housing stock without the state putting its foot on the proverbial neck of the local?

Is it gonna happen without that?

- I don't think so.

Like, if it was gonna happen, it would have already happened.

- Yes.

- And with the state kind of now more in control, what are we seeing?

We're seeing Portsmouth come up with this legal challenge and not actually talk about the actual issue, which is more affordable housing for residents.

So it feels like people who have a modicum of power are like, "Ooh, you took some of our power away.

We want it back.

Not necessarily to solve the problem, but because we want the power."

- Yeah, Ray-Pec did that study a while back, maybe within the last year about how much we're spending.

And we got to get to that too, because a lot of these units, what are we, under Joe Shekarchi, the speaker, $250 million of the ARPA money and then another $100 and $120 million for affordable housing.

And I guess the stats that you talked about are helpful, but I think a lot of people are thinking, "We're putting in a lot of money.

Where are the results here?"

- Yeah, where's the money going?

The accessory dwellings has been very popular.

- The granny flats, right?

- The granny flats are very popular.

I would, if I was, you know, Portsmouth or any of these communities, I would actually push for that.

I would actually just say, "You know what?

We're gonna have a comprehensive plan that is going to give tax incentive to people to build, you know, granny flats."

- I was joking with my wife.

So our son and daughter-in-law, they live in North Carolina.

At some point, they may come back, but I mean, you know, where are they gonna live?

And I said, "Oh, maybe we can build an accessory dwelling unit."

And she goes, "Hummel, you know who's gonna be living in that?"

I said, "Yeah, yeah, Cam and Emily."

She goes, "No, we're gonna be in that."

And I said, "That is not an option right now.

I'm staying in the main house."

- That is coming.

- So we'll see.

So we'll see where this lawsuit goes.

So you think maybe potential to succeed or?

- I do.

And I just feel like we, again, in Rhode Island, we just don't try to actually solve the problem, when we actually do that, we do everything to roll it back.

- Okay.

Six months after Roger Williams Medical Center and Our Lady of Fatima were finally purchased by a national company, Attorney General Peter Neronha is raising red flags saying the Centurion Foundation's long-term plans are lacking.

Now, I have a memory of somebody on this set six months ago with a prediction about this, Dr.

Rodriguez.

- That's absolutely correct.

At a time when everybody was celebrating that we saved the two hospitals with the injection of $85 million plus- - Of state money.

- Of state money plus the 14 million backstop for the bonds, I said it here.

I said, "There's no way that money is gonna be enough, you know, for these hospitals."

I am a cynic, but I never expect it to be this quick.

- You thought two years, right?

- I thought a couple of years, you know, they'll come back.

But six months later, and having 40 days of cash on hand is really, really bad for an organization that spends so much money and that needs to spend even more to bring their facilities up to snuff because it's really, you know, for the last five years, you know, Prospect was not investing in their facilities.

They don't have a contract right now with the nurses still.

They're still fighting for salaries.

So I don't know what's gonna happen, but this is a very, very serious situation, especially with what's coming down the pike with the cuts in Medicaid that began October 1st of this year.

And the fact that the other hospitals, you know, we always talk about, you know, Roger Williams and Fatima, but listen, Brown University Health and Care New England are not in good shape either.

So losing these two hospitals could be a serious, serious blow to healthcare in Rhode Island.

- Yeah, and it seems like there, I would say there's no solution.

And what's scary is six months from now, these hospitals could be completely insolvent or less.

And what do we do?

Because these hospitals serve, you know, mostly people who are not necessarily commercially insured.

And so, as Dr.

Rodriguez was saying, what do we do then?

And that's scary.

- Yeah.

We've talked about that when Memorial closed, right?

All those emergency room visits had to go somewhere.

- That's right.

There are 50,000 ER visits at Roger Williams and Fatima.

So those have to go to where?

To Rhode Island Hospital.

There's no other alternative, or to Miriam.

And look at the numbers, Care New England is operating on a $20 million deficit this year.

They're already cutting jobs, cutting administration in order to be able to cut the deficit.

Brown University Health had $36 million loss in the first six months of this year.

So they are all just holding by a thread.

And with the cut in Medicaid, what are we gonna have?

More people uninsured.

We lost 10,000 people- - From the ACA.

- From the ACA, from HealthSource RI.

And we projected to lose another 30,000 from Medicaid once the work rules are established and once the cut in the Big Beautiful Bill come to effect.

- And so, then they're gonna come back to the state and say, "We need more money.

You gave us 85 million," but so is it good money after bad?

Is it good money?

Is it just money they have to put in because of what you said?

- Yeah.

- You can't, it's almost, they're almost too big to fail.

- It feels like definitely good money after bad.

And there's not a lot of times where I feel like I have no idea what the solution could be.

I'm not a cynic, but in this scenario, I'm scared.

I don't know what we're going to do because anything that we do, it feels like it's just a Band-Aid, you know?

I've thought about, well, maybe, you know, between Roger Williams and Fatima, you consolidate, you don't provide the same services at both hospitals, like you have one service in one hospital, one service in a different hospital.

Okay, that's an idea, but that's not gonna solve the systemic problem that some of our larger hospitals are also facing.

So I don't know.

We need a plan, but I just don't know what that is.

- And in the absence of a plan, what do we have?

You know, Brown University Health purchasing hospitals in Massachusetts.

- [Jim] What was the thought behind that?

- Okay, I don't know what the thought was because I wasn't involved in the decisions, but- - [Jim] John Fernandez didn't come for you.

- They didn't ask me.

- He was the consultant.

- You would have said run the other way.

- Exactly!

If people from Massachusetts cannot make those hospitals work, what makes us believe that we can do that?

They're losing $89 million this year on the hospitals in Massachusetts, and that was approved by the Attorney General.

- Do you think they thought that it's gonna be higher reimbursement rates, so that's gonna help the bottom line?

- That was the argument.

- And so, did that not help?

- Obviously not because they're losing $89 million.

- Well, and they're asking, you know, they're putting out another round for early retirements and they're trying to nibble around the edges, but it's systematic.

And I look at you, you always usually have a solution and you're like, "I don't know," right?

- I have nothing, which makes it just very scary because if I don't, can't even conceive of a solution, I know a lot of our politicians and administrators are not, and it's just gonna be a lot of finger pointing.

It's like, who's on first?

And so, we're just gonna have rounds and rounds of that.

And who suffers?

People who need medical care.

And that is really scary.

- You know, you hear about the, well, news deserts we've talked about with, of course, with media, but also hospital deserts that a lot of the rural, under the big federal bill that a lot of the rural communities have stopped.

So if you're living in Montana or Wyoming, you got to be concerned.

You never thought in the Northeast that you would be worried about, am I gonna be able to get a doctor or how long am I gonna have to wait in the ER?

- And let's not forget that both Care New England and University Health have debt that needs to be paid, have bonds that need to be supported.

Care New England does not have investment grade bonds right now.

It's double B, I think it is.

And university is triple B. And you're the accountant here.

That's not something that you're gonna recommend to your clients.

- No.

- At this point, especially at a time when interest rates are going up.

So we have all these forces that are acting against the health of our healthcare system.

Less reimbursement, more people uninsured.

Emergency Medicaid which was killed by the Big Beautiful Bill is going to add a boatload of costs.

- Last thought on this.

The Attorney General has said, "I think your plan is lacking.

Come back to me."

But I'm not sure what they can do.

They're not gonna come up with some magic plan in the next 60 days, right?

- They have to close half of the hospital.

I mean, that's the only way.

They have to fire half of the workforce.

That's where the money, you know, usually is invested in personnel.

They have to have drastic cuts in personnel, drastic cuts in services.

They may even need to close, you know, the emergency room.

Who knows?

They can't do it.

It's just not enough time.

40 days of cash on hand is not a healthy situation.

- Don't get sick.

(Pablo laughs) - Yeah.

- That's kind of the message going out.

Let's shift gears just a little bit.

You know, of course, we're five weeks out from the elections.

A lot of the action happened during the primary.

The governor's race has become interesting this week.

Ken Block was the independent, the main independent.

Aaron Guckian, the Republican, and Helena Foulkes, the Democrat.

Ken Block commissioned a poll that said, "Look, if Guquian's out of the race, I have a fighting chance against her."

Guquian seems to be going nowhere.

It's a big mess.

- You know, hearing Block say that, I had a flashback to 2010.

I'm seeing John Robitaille, you know?

And I'm saying to myself, back in 2010, I was like, "Man, if Block hadn't been in this race."

- John Robitaille was the governor.

- John Robitaille would've won.

- So just to set the table for those that don't remember, it was Frank Caprio was the Democrat.

John Robitaille was the Republican, closing quickly.

Link Chafee- - Lincoln Chafee, the independent.

- Independent and Ken Block.

And Link Chafee squeezed it out, but you're right.

If those, because they said, remember the Republican Governors Association threw in a bunch of money and they said, "Well, if he had two more weeks, Robitaille could have taken it."

- Right.

And so, it's so ironic that Ken Block, in his own commission study, asked people this question, you know?

So that's one thing.

Second thing is, you know, I've been a Republican up until a few months ago for my entire life.

Seeing the Republican candidate trailing by as much as they're trailing is just another sad statement of the Republican party.

- [Jim] On par for an historic loss, in terms of percentage.

- It's been, what, 20 years since Carcieri won the last- - Carcieri in 2006.

- You know.

So the Republican Party continues to move backwards.

- Have you officially just affiliated with- - I have officially.

- Wow, we're losing him.

We're losing him in droves here.

- I'm telling you.

- Yeah, yeah.

- So there are lies, damn lies, and numbers, statistics.

Okay?

And you can commission any plan you want, but really, come on.

The ballots are already printed.

They already have been sent overseas.

So this is- - [Jim] You pull a little sticky note that says, "By the way."

- "By the way, you can't vote for this one because he already retired."

- Yeah, yeah.

- It's completely meaningless.

It's just a way of getting some kind of headlines on the newspaper because it really is completely meaningless at this point.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I don't even know why Block is trying to do it.

Maybe he just wants to feel better like, "Ooh, there is a way for me to win."

You know, if we do put the sticky notes on all of the ballots and people will just, you know- - You don't know?

You don't know?

It's about raising money.

Come on, guys!

What do you think polls are for?

They're not to sway anybody, except the people that give the money to the campaign.

- His best path would've been had McKee won, I think he would've had a much better shot.

But it's an uphill slog against Helena Foulkes.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And full disclosure, you are supporting her.

- Absolutely.

- What do you think the path is in the next five weeks?

She's been a little, maybe smartly so, let them duke it out, but we haven't heard a lot from her over the last two weeks.

- Oh, absolutely.

And why should she?

- Right.

- At this point, you know, she's a shoe-in, you know, with all the polls showing and in a democratic state.

Like you said, I mean, the Republicans are just disappearing.

- In disarray.

- In disarray.

- The one shot that they might have is John Loughlin.

People are talking about how good a shot that would be against the incumbent, Sabina Matos.

Were you surprised that she prevailed in that primary for lieutenant governor out of the four?

Xay Khamsyvoravong, Cindy Coyne, and Sue AnderBois.

- The answer is yes.

No, I've known Sabina for 22 years or more, and what surprises me about her is her ability to achieve what she has achieved over and over again.

And I just think she's got a, she connects with people in a way that I think people don't truly appreciate.

And so, yes, it's surprising, but to me, I've seen her do a lot of different things that I never thought she probably could do.

And I think she continues to surprise people.

- She had the City Council in Providence.

I mean, she's got a lot of experience.

She's been, you know, eight years in the job.

So I think the problem with Sabina is her accent.

You know, people use the accent as, "Oh, well, you know-" - "She's just arrived."

- "She's just arrived.

She's not confident," whatever.

But she really is a good politician.

She connects with people, like you said.

And she connects with people that you wouldn't expect, you know, in communities that never heard of her before.

- I will say this.

A couple years ago, I asked Sabina for help with an issue that I had, and she was right on it.

And I hadn't talked to her for a few years.

And, you know, we were different parties.

Well, still we are different parties.

- Right.

- But I just think that just speaks to a lot of her character that I think people in Rhode Island respect character, regardless if, you know, and we had Buddy Cianci for many years- - Of course.

- People also respect results, even if they're- - Consider join service.

- That's right.

- Yeah, exactly.

So I'm not shocked.

- Yeah, I think John Loughlin's problem is gonna be he has an R next to his name in this election.

I think anybody with an R. And it's like you, I mean, look, you've been in the political arena for so long.

We saw the Fungs disaffiliate.

Now they're independent.

And I think the Republican Party of John Chafee and others have left a lot of Republicans behind.

- Listen, I supported Chafee.

And, you know, I have voted for Republicans in the past.

But I couldn't do it now.

I mean, there's no one- - But I mean, Link Almond, Don Carcieri, Jeff Pine, all solid, but just not where the party is now.

What about midterms coming up?

I think people are increasingly thinking the House is probably a foregone conclusion, although the leaders would tell you, don't take anything for granted.

The Senate's now in play in a lot of places that you wouldn't have expected, Texas, North Carolina, maybe Maine.

What do you see on the national map?

- Well, it's pretty clear, you know, Donald Trump is trying to do anything possible to make the Republicans to lose.

I mean... - [Jim] It seems that way, doesn't it?

- Oh my God.

It's absolutely crazy, you know?

And until the Republican Party says, "No, enough.

Let's get back to the things that people care about.

We don't care about ballrooms.

We don't care about arches.

We don't care about pools.

We don't care about loving you."

You know, it's not gonna happen.

And it's really, really sad because, you know, some good people are being thrown by the wayside.

- Yeah.

I mean, the Democrats have to, in general, get their act together, but what's hurting Trump is more of the promises that he made in this campaign, he's not delivering on those.

You know, the economy is not this well-oiled machine.

Gas prices, you know, I think- - The golden age.

- The other week it was like $4.70 a gallon, and it's been over four for a long time.

So for all of his bombast and rhetoric, you know, the results just aren't there.

- It didn't solve the Ukraine-Russia war.

I mean, that was the one thing we'll get it done tomorrow.

It is interesting.

Now the reporting's coming out.

They had that midterm convention, whatever it was, in Texas, and Ken Paxton, who's in a fight of his life against James Talarico for the Senate, the Republican said, you know, he got caught on some tape and a fundraiser.

That hurt us.

I mean, no kidding to the rest of us.

But Trump going to Texas actually was the worst thing.

So he's not getting a lot of invitations on the campaign circuit, right?

- No.

And that's the special trick that some Republicans are trying to play.

Let me just distance myself from Trump enough that he doesn't trash me.

(laughs) - I think a lot of people are frustrated though because they see, look, the Republicans are looking toward '28 when Trump is definitely gone, but also that nothing's gonna get done.

So if the Democrats take over, then you have gridlock again.

And I think a lot of people, you see a lot of people retiring from Congress because they're just, it's a miserable place to be.

At the end of the day, you're like, what have we gotten done?

- Right.

And who wants that?

But I feel like I'm hopeful.

I really feel like Trump was a response to Obama, and I'm hoping that there is a reaction.

- [Jim] Course correction.

- The other way as well.

That's what I can hope.

I don't care what party it comes from, but just somebody who's just a little bit more moderate and will try to bring people together.

- But you know who wants gridlock?

The stock market.

- Yeah, exactly.

All right.

Let's do outrageous or kudos.

What do you have this week?

- Well, the public service announcements by the President where he- - [Jim] Paid for by us.

- Paid for by us, where he asked 10 times in 30 seconds, "Love me, love me, love me."

It's absolutely an outrage.

You know, it's a political ad- - Set the table on that.

It's an ad that was recycled from two years ago and- - Recycled from a political ad.

- [Jim] Yeah.

And instead of paid for by Donald Trump, paid for... - Paid for the American people.

- [Jim] By the US government.

- By the US governor.

- I mean, this is kind of where we're going because, you know, if we had more oversight, the Republicans don't want to say anything.

If it was the Democratic, but oversight, what's that really gonna do?

I think people are so disillusioned that Trump's doing whatever he wants to do with no guardrails.

- Absolutely, especially the Republicans.

- Yeah.

Well, you know what?

The piper's gonna have to be paid because a lot of people are gonna go to the polls and say, "What did you do to stop him?"

And the answer is- - Nothing.

- Right.

- What do you have?

- So this is a kudo.

Want to shout out Ed Brady for his 2028 run for mayor of Cranston.

Ed's a really good guy.

- Tell us about Ed Brady.

I don't know much about him.

- You know, he's a born and bred Cranstonian.

He was in the city council for a few years, and he just helps people.

He I think he is part owner of the Park Theatre on Pontiac Avenue.

He owns a couple of other different pubs, but he's just out and about the community trying to do solid community work.

- [Jim] Maybe we'll be talking about him more two years from now.

- We will.

- You heard it here first from Don Roach.

Either way, constituent service, right?

- That's right.

- Yeah, that's good.

All right.

Pablo and Don, thank you.

We appreciate your analysis this week.

Thank you for joining us.

Be sure and check us out on Facebook, X, Instagram, and on the Ocean State Media YouTube channel and wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

We'll see you next time right here on "Lively."

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