- People do not care about crime stats.

How do people feel?

We just had a homeless man stabbed to death on the pedestrian bridge this week.

And so, people, just because crime stats show violent crime is down, it's maybe not how they feel.

- Money only takes you so far.

Smiley has tons and tons more money, so he's, you know, I'm getting a mailer every week, right, from his campaign.

Obviously, he's up on TV, but, you know, dollars don't vote.

- This isn't just about endorsements and all of that.

The question was always what will the labor bring to the table?

Are they going to support the governor in this case?

And it's very clear they're not.

(dramatic music) - I'm Jim Hummel, and welcome to this edition of "Lively."

This week, we are joined by Target 12 investigator Tim White and Boston Globe reporter Steph Machado.

Governor McKee failed on Wednesday to secure an endorsement from the AFL-CIO, which chose to stay on the sidelines in his race against challenger Helena Foulkes.

It's another setback for McKee who has a lot of ground to make up as early voting begins in just five weeks.

Tim, we were talking about this off-camera.

This is big.

McKee did everything he could do to court labor, including the charter school situation, and it didn't pay off for him.

- Yeah, the NEA and AFT, the two powerful teachers unions are under the AFL-CIO umbrella, and he made that play to try and secure this endorsement.

This is a win for Helena Foulkes, and we now have an underdog incumbent in the race for governor, and this isn't just about endorsements and all of that.

Those are important, of course, in the political world.

The question was always, I think, for us, is what will the labor bring to the table?

So it's not just about endorsing them.

Are they going to support the governor in this case?

And it's very clear they're not.

Even if they had endorsed the incumbent governor, which, by the way, in the Democratic primary, I can't remember a time the AFL-CIO didn't do that.

When it was an open seat and I think Gina Raimondo's first run, there was no AFL-CIO endorsement.

They decided to stay on the sidelines.

But to not endorse the incumbent governor is a real headline.

The other question was what kind of money were they gonna bring for- - Right.

- Dan McKee?

And it's clear now the answer is zero.

And so, there's a lot of question about how much runway does Dan McKee have?

How much more spending can he do?

You have Helena Foulkes, who is outspending Dan McKee, I think at last check, three to one in television ads, and you are not going to see the union step up and help him financially at this point- - Right, they have the type of money where they could send out mailers, they could run a TV ad- - That's right.

- Do all kinds of things like that, and that, now, that's not happening.

And to be clear, it was never a question about are they gonna endorse Foulkes or McKee.

We knew they wouldn't endorse Foulkes.

- Agreed.

- It was would they endorse McKee or would they stay out of it?

And they stayed out of it.

And so, the individual unions that are within the umbrella of the AFL-CIO technically could still endorse, I think, one of them- - Firefighters will, I think.

- The Teamsters, yeah.

I don't know if the teachers will as of this taping, but it's a big deal, and it comes, again, it's just bad headline after bad headline after bad headline for the governor from, you know, the party not endorsing him to even his own friends in Cumberland.

- Do you think they smelled blood in the water, and they said, "We're gonna stay on the sidelines, "because if Foulkes looks like she's gonna be governor, "we wanna be, at least have a relationship," or what do you think was behind it?

- I wasn't there for the vote, and Patrick Crowley, the head of the AFL-CIO- - [Jim] Just said, "We couldn't reach consensus."

- "We couldn't reach consensus," but, you know, I think if Patrick Crowley wanted to secure the endorsement for the incumbent governor in that room of, I think it's 15 executive board members that are in there, it would've happened.

- But it's new leadership.

He's new, too.

- Oh, this is a big test, I think, of Patrick Crowley as well, and I think he read the tea leaves, and he looked at it, and he said, "Do we wanna hitch our wagon to someone "who is 20 points behind," or there's a 20 point gap between Helena Foulkes at the top and the incumbent governor, Dan McKee.

"Are we gonna endorse Dan McKee on this one, "and then Helena Foulkes becomes the governor, "and we're sort of on our back foot here," was probably the calculation.

- And by the way, if she wins the primary, they will potentially have to decide whether to endorse her in the general election, which I think is an entirely other question, because she or he, you know, depending on whoever, who wins the primary will be facing Ken Block, the independent candidate.

- And a Republican- - And a Republican- - Either Aaron- - Yeah.

- Guckian or Elaine Pelino- - Or Elaine Pelino.

- I just wasn't considering that the- - They would endorse- - That the union would endorse the Republican- - Yes.

- But yeah.

- You got at the point though.

What does the union bring to the table now?

- Yeah.

- Some money, some members, and it's a Democratic primary.

I've always wondered, too, 'cause you've been in this market a long time now.

How much does it bring in terms of like when the leadership says, "We want this person," how much does that translate to the individual members?

I wonder if there's more of a disconnect in 2026 than there was even five or 10 years ago in terms of the bosses saying, "We need to get behind this guy.

"You go vote, you take your family," and all of that.

- I think it depends on the candidate, and I think Dan McKee would even admit that the support of labor when he won in his first term was critical for him getting to the State House.

And if there is a candidate that the labor and leadership really wants to support, they will absolutely mobilize the union membership to go out and literally knock on doors.

The ground game for the union is very, very strong and can help elevate a candidate, not just for governor, but other offices.

- Yeah, it is true that the rank and file sometimes doesn't agree with the union leadership.

We've seen that on the federal level.

Labor often endorses Democrats, but then so many union members, you know, voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

And so, there's not always, you know, there is often a disconnect.

There can be a disconnect between the rank and file workers and the union leadership- - Do you think it ever crossed Governor McKee's mind like it did with Linc Chafee all those years ago, "Maybe this is not a race I wanna run"?

Did he really, I mean, I think the path is closing now.

Do you think he ever, I mean, it's a speculation question, but did he ever think, "Wow, the writing, "the tea leaves, all of this is not for me.

"Maybe this is not a fight I wanna"- - We can only go off of what he has said, and he has said all along that he's in this race to win it.

He has told us in a recent interview that he is going to win by five to seven points.

I have no idea where that number is coming from.

We are unaware of any internal polling within the McKee administration that has suggested that.

But he has all along said he's in it and there's no indication that at this point he's gonna drop out.

I wanna make one quick side point here.

I also think this was bad news for Ken Block.

Ken Block in, when you look at the polling here, the independent candidate for governor, he has a real shot in the general election against Dan McKee as a Democratic candidate in this case.

He doesn't do as well if Helena Foulkes is the candidate, the Democratic candidate in this race.

So I think Ken Block was probably at home hoping that Dan McKee would get this endorsement.

- It was interesting, though.

So that was the headline.

There were also endorsements down-ballot that Sabina Matos, his, not his running mate, but clearly, LG, they ran as a team- - Right.

- Kind of four years ago.

She got the endorsement.

- Yeah.

- And she, remember, she was his handpicked- - Right.

- Lieutenant governor.

He got to pick.

It was very unusual because of it happening midterm.

He got to pick the lieutenant governor.

She was his teammate, but they have since, I don't wanna say parted ways, because they were never officially- - It's chilly.

- Yes.

They are not running as a ticket.

He didn't endorse her in her congressional, you know, race a few years ago.

So the union is saying, "We still support her "as the incumbent, but not the governor "who installed her in this job."

- And I think that is very meaningful for the incumbent Lieutenant Governor Sabina Matos here to get and secure that endorsement, especially when you compare it to, you know, the sitting governor did not get it, and now the question for Matos is the same one that we posed at the beginning of this conversation.

What will the support actually, the tangible support from labor be for her?

Because that is the type of thing in a four-way race that we have here right now, very packed, you don't need a lot to win that.

I don't know, what, 30% or something like that from the vote, and you can be the Democratic nominee.

Any support that labor provides to Matos will be meaningful.

- And a Democrat- - She's facing a real challenge.

- She really is.

- You know?

- Right.

- We often- - She's still facing that- - We often take it for granted that the incumbent- - That the power of the incumbent's gonna roll right in.

- Yeah.

- But also, so what is it, 70, 100,000 people in the Democratic primary?

- Yeah, it's just low- - The voters, if that, right?

- Yeah, I'd have to tap my inner Joe Fleming to give you those numbers- - Yeah- - I think the governor's race, I'm gonna guess was 113,000- - Wow.

- Last cycle- - If I get that right, we'll check after- - Fact check that.

- Well, we'll do a fact check.

- [Tim] Yeah.

- I think there's such apathy, though.

I wonder if the numbers are gonna be even lower.

- You think there's apathy this year?

- A little bit.

- I don't know.

- You do?

- Yeah, I do.

- I think the opposite, actually- - I do.

- I think there are people, now, primaries are primaries, and I understand that.

But I think just generally because of the national, you know, tenor of right now that there's a lot of interest in politics, and people vote angry, even in the primaries, and I think there are a lot of angry people out there- - Well, and I think that's working against Governor McKee, because it's- - It's a tough year- - And I've said this- - For incumbents all around- - In a weird way, it's almost what happened with Donald Trump in 2016.

They were so tired of the Washington establishment.

Dan McKee's been around six years plus all of his years as lieutenant governor.

It's like, look, we need a change.

I don't care who that is.

Let's just put somebody else in.

- You make a really good point.

This is, of course, Dan McKee is seeking a second term.

Governor of Rhode Island is term limited, but to a lot of people, they might feel- - [Jim] He's had a term and a half.

- He's already had- - Yeah- - In his second term.

- Yeah, 'cause unpopular incumbents win all the time- - Mm-hmm.

- You saw that with Raimondo, with Jorge Elorza.

Unpopular incumbents can easily win all the time, but it does feel like they already gave him that shot, right?

He already got- - Right.

- The benefit of the doubt and won reelection once, even though it was technically his first full term.

- Just briefly, the AG's race, we got another cast of thousands here, Keith Hoffmann, Kim Ahern, Jason Knight, and Joe Solomon.

Do you have any read on this?

I don't know if there's polling, there's- - [Tim] We did a poll on that.

- And- - And they were all in the single digits.

I mean, Kim Ahern was up a little bit- - Oh, I do remember that poll, but it's nothing- - [Jim] But it was within the, it was in- - Yeah.

- Within the margin of error.

I mean, right now, it looks like- - Undecided is winning by a landslide- - I was gonna say that the next attorney general will be a person by the name of undecided- - Undecided, right.

- At this point.

And again, these are where the races where endorsements really matter.

We are moderating a, or hosting a debate in that race at Roger Williams School of Law, primetime debate, August 11th- - Not enough room in the studio?

- On that, well, no.

We can't- - They don't have enough podiums for all these candidates.

- We do have enough podiums, but we thought that was a great setting, and the law school wanted to be a part of it.

So my point is, you know, I think debates always matter.

We do a lot of them at Channel 12, but in a race like that, where no one knows these candidates 'cause Peter Neronha's out the door, those are very meaningful.

- And you have Foulkes in McKee coming up in August too, right before early voting starts.

- That right, August 18th, and early voting starts August 20th- - August 20th, okay.

- Two days later.

- Great.

The race for Providence mayor, a looming change in leadership on the council, and control of the city schools back in local hands, there is a lot to keep track of in Providence these days as the primary election is less than two months away.

So we have Miss Providence here joining us.

She knows all things Providence- - My official title.

- Where's your sash?

- We're gonna put that on your graphic.

So tell me about the mayor's race.

It's getting interesting, because Brett Smiley, you would normally think we've had various polls.

David Morales thinks that he's doing well.

Brett Smiley launches an attack ad.

Did that surprise you?

- It didn't surprise me because I think, well, okay, I'll say this.

The content surprised me a little bit, but it didn't surprise me that he would launch an attack ad, because I think he's vulnerable.

We have no public polling, independent polling in this race.

But all indications are that David Morales is outperforming expectations.

He hasn't raised a ton of money.

I don't think he's gonna go up on TV with ads himself.

But Mayor Smiley needed an attack.

The reason that the content surprised me, if you haven't seen the ad yet, he attacks David Morales for his previously held opinions about defunding the police, and says, you know, "If he's elected mayor, "he is going to defund the police."

A month ago, the two of them were in a studio with me for a debate, where David Morales completely reversed course on that position, and said that he would actually increase funding to the police and hire more.

Now, it's totally fair to go after him for that flip-flop.

- That's consultants talking.

- Right, it's, right, exactly- - Right, when they put the ad together.

- Right, who's watching TV?

Older voters who are extremely concerned about something like defund the police, right?

And they vote a lot.

Now, I saw the ad on Hulu, so it's not like it's just airing on TV, and the younger people, you know, streaming services and everything are playing the ad.

But yes, consult, it was a (mumbles), I'm sure consultants said, "This is a great topic for you to go after."

- I wasn't surprised, but it did indicate to me when I saw it just what Steph said.

Oh, the Smiley campaign's worried, because you're dropping money on statewide television stations, Channel 12, Channel 10, that don't just broadcast, the last time I checked, to the city of Providence.

And so, you have to spend a lot of money to do that and tap into your campaign war chest.

And as Steph said, he's also dropping money- - He's got 10 times the amount of money though, right?

- Yeah, but you know what?

It's not infinite.

And so, for him to do this pretty early on indicated to us that, okay, they think that David Morales has a head of steam here, and you just have to look down to New York City and see the playbook that Morales is trying to tear a sheet from, and that is Mayor Mamdani, who is this socialist, very progressive candidate, and that is the type of candidate that Morales trying to frame himself as.

So what Smiley is doing with the defund the, it is almost a, maybe it's too strong to say a dishonest ad, but as Steph said- - A little disingenuous.

- Disingenuous, that's a much better word, because he has changed his view on all of that.

I questioned him about it on "Newsmakers."

He made those comments in 2021 in the wake of all the protests and everything that was happening there.

What he's trying to do, Brett Smiley, I mean, is go say to voters, "Okay, this is what a socialist mayor would look like," or he's trying to paint it as such, and reach maybe voters primarily on the East Side of Providence and say, "You have to think about "is this the guy that you want in city hall?"

Now, there might be a majority of Providence, Democratic primary voters in Providence who go, "Yeah, actually that is who I want," and that's what Smiley's worried about.

- Yeah, I mean, I think it's a really interesting race.

I think it's not a great year for incumbents.

There is this comparison to Mamdani that I think is yet to be seen if that comparison is gonna bear out.

- Does that play in Providence?

- That's the thing, I think- - And is Morales Mamdani?

- I don't know- - Yeah.

- Who, you know, a very charismatic- - We got a couple of factors going on there, right- - He wants to be.

- Yeah.

- I think Mamdani was a fabulous debater, right?

Regardless of his policy positions, he did, he was quick on his feet.

He performed extremely well in the debates, tons of viral clips on TikTok with his debate performance.

So, I mean, you guys will have a televised mayoral debate- - We're talking on a Thursday- - Tomorrow?

Yeah.

- And this is tomorrow- - [Jim] You know, this is timely, this- - Yes, yes, so we're having them in studio, Channel 12, for a debate, the two of 'em head-to-head.

So we will see that, and as Steph said, Mamdani leaned really into viral videos, TikTok vertical videos, as we like to say in the industry.

Morales is trying to do the same thing.

His response to the attack ad was on social media exclusively.

Of course, he can't spend the money to do it in legacy media platforms.

So he had very, it was a very slick response that looked like he was shooting it himself- - Yeah.

- And all of that, and it was very well produced.

So he is trying to- - And- - Do the same thing.

- Money only takes you so far.

Smiley has tons and tons more money.

So he's, you know, I'm getting a mailer every week, right, from his campaign.

Obviously, he's up on TV, but, you know, dollars don't vote.

- I also thought it was interesting, and signs don't vote either, that they said the (mumbles), I hear consulting, 'cause they said, "We don't wanna go back."

That's the same thing Kamala Harris used.

Remember, it was all, "We don't wanna go back to Trump."

- Oh- - They used that phrase that, "We don't wanna go back," and I don't know if they think that catches people's attention- - Yeah.

- We wanna move forward- - [Steph] And he's referencing we don't wanna go back to- - Crime.

- A time when crime was high.

- Crime, yeah, yeah- - And that is tricky.

I feel like every time a politician brags about the crime rate being down- - I have a thought- - Something bad happens, and it goes up, you know?

Last year, we had a very, very low homicide rate that was being celebrated, and then we had a horrific mass shooting.

You know what I mean, like you can't, like- - Let me put it another way- - Yeah.

- People do not care about crime stats.

So the crime stats can show one thing, and you know, they're tracked by the FBI, and the Rhode Island State Police, by every community, and we looked at them in the press corps all the time.

How do people feel?

We just had a homeless man stabbed to death on the pedestrian bridge this week.

And so, people, just because crime stats show violent crime is down, it's maybe not how they feel.

- And I got a mailer in my mailbox the next day about the crime being down in Providence from the Smiley campaign, and that's 100% true.

This was our fourth homicide of the year.

That is low- - Low- - For Providence.

I've been a reporter here for 11 years, and I've covered years where we had 20 homicides.

- [Tim] Yup.

- So crime is down, but again, if people feel like this family-friendly place where I go, you know, is somewhere you can be killed- - Yeah, the pedestrian bridge- - That's a feeling.

A feeling is, you know, statistics is- - That was my point.

- Right.

- All right, so be sure and watch "Newsmakers" this weekend, and it'll be, you'll post it online too.

- We'll post it online, and Friday at 6:30 is its main, you know, viewing on Fox- - Okay, so by the time you watch this, you'll see it.

All right, Tim, I wanted to stay with you.

The Mount Hope Bridge.

- Yes.

- The gift that keeps on giving.

You've been doing stories- - That's an interesting take.

- About this.

Yeah, well, for those of us who live in the East Bay, it cuts- - Yeah.

- Both ways, right?

And by the way, I drove over it the other day.

I'm like, "Didn't they just pave this recently?"

That's a whole nother story.

Inspection reports that you've been trying to get, well, set the table.

They said, "Oh, classified," you know, "The Feds say we can't release these," and then, this week, the Bridge and Turnpike, Turnpike and Bridge Authority said, "No, that's not true."

- In 2025, Target 12 sought the bridge, the inspection report of the nearly century-old Mount Hope Bridge.

Obviously, heightened concern about the infrastructure in Rhode Island following what happened to the Washington Bridge.

So we wanted to see that document for ourselves and just check it out.

The RITBA, the Rhode Island Turnpike and Bridge Authority, has been saying the bridge is safe.

It was listed in fair condition, though that was a downgrade.

Great.

As we say in journalism, "If your mother says she loves you, check it out," and we wanted to check it out.

But they denied our access to the bridge as well as a citizen in Bristol.

And so, I did a story just on the denial, which, of access to that information.

And they told us that it was because the document is called a Sensitive Security Information document, which is something that the TSA requires on things that could be attacked by terrorists.

Primarily, we're talking airports and train stations, and I just want everyone to understand it is not the TSA that told RITBA, "You have to stamp this report as SSI."

- They interpreted it that way?

- They interpreted it that way.

And so, the town of Bristol, after we had asked for the report, they decided to ask for it as well.

You play to lose, as the saying is.

They were denied.

And so, they filed a federal lawsuit against the Turnpike and Bridge Authority and TSA, and that is what forced RITBA to really get the TSA to review the document.

TSA looked at it and said, "No, it's fine.

"There's nothing sensitive in here," and released it without a single redaction.

- Are we at outrages yet?

'Cause this is mine.

(Tim and Jim laughing) It is ridiculous to me that when every other bridge in the state, you know, that are mostly controlled by RIDOT, we see their inspection reports- - They post them online.

- Routinely.

They post them online, and we just, I mean, look at the Washington Bridge situation, where that bridge failed despite being inspected by dozens of contractors and the reports being released.

Like, it doesn't surprise me that people would wanna know, well, is the Mount Hope Bridge safe?

It is older than the Washington Bridge.

It's, is it longer?

- Oh, yes.

- Yeah.

- I think it is, but, and also- - And if you drive over it- - And if you drive over it- - [Jim] It doesn't inspire confidence.

- It's kind of scary.

- Right?

- When you drive over, and, you know, Tim lives in Bristol, I teach at Roger Williams there.

My students are always asking me about it.

- "Hey, what about that bridge?"

- "The bridge, it's so scary.

"When are they gonna release the," they knew all about the story.

"When are they gonna release the report?"

It boggles the mind that this could've been withheld and then it turns out that TSA didn't even care.

- And the Turnpike and Bridge Authority, Jim, wanted it both ways.

They had filed a grant application several years ago for a dehumidification project, so people who drive over and there's been lane closure, that's what's going on.

They're dehumidifying those cables.

This is a, the bridge has no redundancy.

So if those cables fail, bad things happen.

And in that grant application, it was doomsday.

Cables are snapping.

If we don't get this federal money, the bridge is going to fall into the water- - Right, Mount Hope Bay.

- You know, all of that.

- Right?

- And then when we ask for the inspection report, "No, the bridge is fine."

- Yeah, it's fair, but good.

- Right.

So that's why we took this on.

- Well, it goes to the larger issue.

We could do another half hour on access to public records.

- Yeah.

- It's changed so much.

When I started in this market nearly 45 years ago, you could call up, they give you, if there was something maybe sensitive, they'd run it by a lawyer.

Now, the default is to go to the lawyers.

- Litigate everything.

- Yes.

- Litigate everything, and they wear you out.

Now, "The Journal" back into the day, they had one guy full-time, that's all he did was access the public records, and they knew he was gonna be down their throat.

Now, on the media organizations, it's the burden's on us to try to prove something.

So to me, it's all backwards.

You have asked for, I think rightly so, what's going on with the Newport Bridge, the Jamestown Bridge, and the Sakonnet River Bridge, which is new.

Why should, and then they, so the spokesperson says, "Well, we'll look at that and get back to you"- - Are those SSI too?

- Well, they did tell us that since 2009, all four of the bridges under the umbrella of the Turnpike and Bridge Authority were stamped SSI.

After this came out, and the turn, excuse me, TSA said, "This is fine, "you can release the Mount Hope Bridge report," that's what prompted me- - Nice.

- To ask for all of those- - But another lawyer has to review it?

- But another lawyer- - Oh, please.

- I mean, obviously I view the decision here by the TSA and the victory by the town of Bristol- - As precedent.

- As precedent.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And so, I'm testing that now.

- Yeah, but I mean, I've heard, you've probably gotten the same tips.

We sometimes get the same tips.

"Hey, listen, the Newport Bridge is in bad shape.

"They're trying to cover it up."

You know, whether it's a conspiracy theory or not, that's a bridge you'd wanna know about, wouldn't you?

- Absolutely- - I mean, Jamestown and Sakonnet are newer bridges, but- - And if they're in great shape, let's do that story too- - Let's- - And let's let the- - Yeah, tell us.

- Tell us and then- - Show us.

- And we'll tell the public that, you know what, we looked at the 500 pages of this inspection report, Mount Hope is actually 533, and this is what we found.

And if it's good news, we're gonna say that, too.

- You know, it's interesting that this is how old I am.

We have pictures of little Jimmy on the ferry from Newport to Jamestown- - Aw- - Before they built the bridge.

We moved here in 1965, and we went, it was probably some summer family thing to do, and you realize, so that bridge is relatively new compared to the others.

But Newport, I mean, you think of the traffic that it takes, and the salt, and the wind, and all of that, wouldn't you wanna see that?

And why they weren't posting those already like they do the Washington Bridge?

It's the larger question.

Should it be folded in under DOT?

I think there's probably pros and cons to that.

- Yeah.

- All the bridges.

- That ship probably sailed.

But I will just note, if you wanna look at the integrity of the Brooklyn Bridge down in New York, original reporting on that, you can.

That, you know, the authority, and I forget who it is, it's a New York City authority that handles that bridge, which is very, very old, very, very critical, and obviously a target of terrorist threats.

I mean, I'm not an FBI agent, but you have to think that that bridge would be.

They do post this kind of information online.

- And that project's gonna be going, I think they adjusted it because the traffic was so bad.

They're going to be working on that dehumidification right through the summer.

Is that the- - Yeah, yeah.

They say it's still on track.

What they said was the lane closures which were supposed to end in May are gonna go all the way through the summer, which is a bummer, obviously, especially people trying to head to the beaches, because of safety of workers.

- Great, all right, let's go to outrages and/or kudos.

Steph, what do you have this week?

- Okay, I think that we don't charge enough for out-of-state beachgoers- - Wow.

- To go to the state beaches.

This is the most- - Is that because you can't find any place on the sand?

- This is the most political opinion I've ever shared in public.

- Are you crowded or what?

- When you go to the Rhode Island beaches, they are full by 10 a.m.

and everyone has Connecticut plates.

And I think we, I don't wanna say the number, 'cause now I don't wanna say the number wrong, but we charge, remember we cut the beach fees in half a few years ago?

We charge very little.

I think it's four, I think it's $14, but if it's a little bit more than that, forgive me.

I believe we charge $14 for out-of-state people to go to the beach.

It's $7 for Rhode Islanders.

If I go to Massachusetts to a out-of-state beach and I'm out of state, 'cause I'm Rhode Island, I pay $40 to go to the beach in Massachusetts.

We should increase the beach fees- - So soak the out-of-staters?

- The beaches are full.

I don't know if it's "The Real Housewives."

- Well, no- - But you think increasing the fees are gonna keep the Connecticut people away from the beaches?

They're just gonna pay more, 'cause- - Yeah, but don't- - The beaches are great.

Rhode Island- - That should help the- - They have beaches there, but we have better- - They really don't.

- We have better beaches- - They really don't.

- We have better beaches- - Connecticut, Connecticut's- - And they're cheap.

- All rocky coastline.

- If you have to pay 40 bucks a day to go to the beach, you are not gonna go as many times- - [Jim] Can you name one prominent beach in Connecticut that you would go to?

There are none.

- I can't name- - Why bother?

- One place in Connecticut- - You're lucky she got to the studio today- - Oh, yeah, sorry, I do like Mystic.

- Mystic is a wonderful- - Apologies to the state of Connecticut.

- All right.

Yeah, but I mean, you go to New Haven, there's no beach.

What?

Do you have an outrage or a kudo?

Do you wanna react to Steph?

- Well, I think I already did, but yeah, I have an outrage, and it dampers the beach experience, wildfire smoke.

- Oh, yeah.

- The smoke coming out of Ontario and Minnesota, I believe, fires there have just ruined the week.

It's scary.

At sunset, it looks like we're- - It's apocalyptic, is it?

- In a scene from "Star Wars."

- Yeah.

- Yeah, no, it's awful, and then there's this overarching thing.

I just did a story on the state of Rhode Island's wildfire hoses here, which I didn't realize until I did this reporting that there are specialty hoses for wildfires, and the head of that program said, "We are seeing more and more wildfires here in Rhode Island, "and we're seeing more and more wildfires "across the world now."

And it's a scary time, and this is a really tangible example.

So that's a- - And some coming from Minnesota, but a lot from Canada.

- Yes- - Yeah.

- Ontario, yeah.

- Yeah, it's awful.

All right, Steph and Tim, thank you.

A little Channel 12 reunion going on here.

- Yeah, I loved it.

- We appreciate that.

- Thanks for having us.

- And thank you for joining us.

Be sure and check us out on Facebook, X, Instagram, and on the Ocean State Media YouTube channel, and, once again, wherever you get your favorite podcasts.

We'll see you next time right here on "Lively."

(dramatic music) - [Announcer] "Lively" is generously supported in part by John Hazen White's "Lookout."