- When there's a crime, and, God forbid, it's you, you want every potential resource at your fingertips to help solve that crime.

The good far outweighs the bad.

- The world has changed and the way you reach people has changed.

- There's so much variety in terms of where you can spend your money and so much specific targeting as to who you want to get your message.

- The Governor started out really going after Helena Foulkes, which tells you he needed to find a way to bring her numbers down.

This most recent poll suggests it hasn't worked.

- Rhode Island is a very weird place, and especially when it comes to primaries.

(dramatic lively music) - Welcome me to this episode of "Lively."

I'm Jim Hummel.

We're joined this week by Rhode Island filmmaker, Dante Bellini Jr.

and the Former Mayor of Providence Angel Taveras.

A new poll by Salve Regina University shows that not much has changed as we head into the homestretch to primary day.

Helena Faulkes still has a 20 point lead in the governor's race and undecided holds a commanding lead in the race for Attorney General.

Let's start with the governor's race.

Angel, you've been here with polls heading into the the home stretch.

20 points is really hard to overcome at this point.

- Well, I think it's extremely hard to overcome.

And the reason I tend to believe this poll is when you look at the advertisements and the governor started out really going after Helena Faulkes.

That was his first ad which tells you that they had data to show that he needed to find a way to bring her numbers down.

This most recent poll doesn't suggests it hasn't worked.

He's got a couple of weeks.

In fact, I've already completed my mail ballot.

- [Jim] Really?

- And early voting I think starts today- - Today, yeah.

We're taping it on a Thursday.

- as we tape.

And I think it's a tremendously difficult task there.

It's been a tough race, I think, for the governor.

I think that last time he benefited from a multiple field or multiple candidate field.

Now it's one-on-one.

And Helena Faulkes looks pretty good going into the home stretch.

- Listen, polls have been notoriously inaccurate over the years.

And you know, I think it's gonna be a lot closer than people think.

And when you think about polls, you know, people who answer polls are predisposed to answer polls.

And it doesn't really account for the vast majority who don't.

So I think that, you know, if there's 650 or 700,000 registered voters, and we're gonna get optimistically 20%, the next governor's gonna be, you know, the next governor's gonna need 70,000 votes or 75,000 votes.

I think that, you know, given those, that data, that there is a good shot that this race will be a lot closer than the poll suggests.

- You know, it's interesting that this poll was taken right before the governor made the decision to not pick Joseph Shekarchi, and instead Judge Matos for the Supreme Court and before both debates.

And I don't know how much that moves the needle.

I don't know whether people are watching or not, but the governor has really, all of a sudden, somebody lit a fire on him under these debates, probably because he knows he needs to make an impression.

- I think that's right.

And I would just say to Dante, I think the people who answer polls are the ones who are most likely to vote in primaries, right?

The small sector of the society, only 10%.

- [Jim] And that' where you want a poll, right?

- That's exactly... - They're also the ones that want to answer a poll.

- Well, like I said, they're the ones who are gonna go out and vote in primaries.

I actually predict that I don't think it'll be quite as close as Dante thinks, but we'll find out in a couple of weeks.

- Recent data suggests that, you know, that one in nine people respond to polls.

So I just think that in a state like Rhode Island that has a lot of little nuances, that it's not gonna be a 20 point margin of victory.

It's gonna be much, much closer.

I would say under 10.

- And I would just say that one in nine response to poll, two in 10 vote in a primary, so.

- So you ran for mayor and for governor.

How did you use the polling data in your campaign?

I understand what you're saying that... And more recently, polls are difficult to... - Look at Michigan and Wisconsin.

Look what happened there.

- Exactly.

But what did you do?

I mean, did you... - We did use it.

We did use it.

I'll give you a very specific example.

Our polling data showed that Clay Pell was going up and really increasing because he was on the air without any, basically any opposition.

And we made sure we did an ad with respect to him, him having nine jobs in eight years.

And using his own language as well.

And we did that.

But at the same time, I will say this, that's when I knew I was not gonna be successful for a very simple reason.

- Really?

- I couldn't fight a two-front war, right?

So I had Governor Raimondo on one side, Clay Pell on another, and both of whom had more money than I did.

But I thought that Governor Raimondo had really, would be a better governor.

I did.

And I didn't think Mr.

Pell was ready.

So you asked me a specific question of a little bit inside baseball.

We had a great pollster.

Fred Yang, who does the NBC Wall Street Journal poll, let us know what was going on.

And I felt like we would be better off with Raimondo being governor than than Mr.

Pell.

And so that's what we did.

- I voted for Angel.

- Oh, that's good.

12 years later, you can tell him now, right?

No regrets at all.

- No regrets.

I just think you know, Rhode Island is a very weird place, and especially when it comes to primaries.

So we'll see what happens.

- The Attorney General's race, you know, you've been close with Peter Neronha over the years, seen the work that he's done, big shoes to fill.

But I think with four people relatively unknown, as I had said in the open, undecided has the commanding lead.

How do you break out on that?

I mean, it's get out the vote, right?

- I know we're gonna talk about advertising in a little bit, but I do think that it is, that is a toss up right now because people don't know who they are.

And if you're really interested in that race, you have to do some research.

So does it come down to, you know, TV?

Does it come down to just exposure?

We don't know.

But I think that race is going to be at least a three-way horse race.

- Yeah.

Listen, I think you're right.

The undecided right now has the lead.

People are focusing more on the governor's race.

I'm a Neronha fan, and I think he's done an outstanding job as an attorney general.

He has endorsed Keith Hoffman.

So it'll be interesting to see how much help that endorsement is.

I know that Kim Ahern shows that she's the only woman in the race.

She has experience and right now is leading the poll, well, leading after undecided.

So I think these last couple of weeks really mean a lot.

And especially in those downballot races.

So it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens and also see what type of influence Attorney General Neronha may have on that race.

- Yeah, and, you know, we've talked about this, Hummel, that it's about get out the vote.

You know, at the end of the day, it's about get out the vote.

And if you're successful in doing that and depending on the nature of the day, the kind of weather, the kind of, you know, so many factors.

Anybody can win.

- But as you said, in a Democratic primary, I mean, the Republicans would probably be lucky to have 20, 30,000 people.

70, 80 would probably be a good turnout, you think, in a Democratic primary?

- I think if, optimistically, 20% are gonna vote, that's like 70,000.

- Yeah.

Lieutenant Governor likewise is a crowded field.

- I'm sorry, 20% would be like- - Of the registered.

Right.

- Would like 130.

The winner would only need, you know.

- Right.

To be able to emerge from the primary.

Lieutenant Governor, four people on the Democratic side.

That sets up interestingly that whoever emerges from that.

I think John Loughlin, one, because he's been in the General Assembly, two, because he's had a radio show.

That's probably gonna be the most competitive Republican in years on a statewide ballot.

- Well, I agree with you on that.

I think that John Laughlin is gonna be a formidable candidate in the general election.

And also in terms of the Lieutenant Governor's race, I think that there Lieutenant Governor Matos obviously has faced some challenges in some of which I think have actually been unfairly.

But the crowded field may actually help her.

- Work in her favor.

- Yes, it may work in her favor because it's a race that still people don't know as much about as the governor's race and the crowded field makes the win number a lower number.

So it may help.

- I agree with the mayor on the Matos race.

The more people in the race, the better it is for her.

Laughlin has mic skills.

So when you have Laughlin on stage with anyone he's gonna compete.

So it's gonna be a really interesting general election.

- What about the former mayor of Newport, Xay Khamsyvoravong, who's been, you know, he ran Frank Caprio's campaign back in the day, almost 16 years ago, and now all of a sudden he's becoming middle-aged.

But he's in Newport.

- I think he's a formidable candidate, but he also looks like he's 14.

- Yeah.

- You know, I don't know- - Which in some cases- - The mayor does too.

- Although he had a big birthday this year, so we will try not to remind him of that.

And sometimes that works in your favor, but in this case, people like, - I don't know.

- he's at the middle school's town council, right?

- Yeah.

Yeah.

That's gonna be very interesting.

- I agree.

It's gonna be very interesting.

Xay's a great candidate.

I know him as well.

Great person.

- Smart.

- Very smart.

Has a record to run on... And so certainly very formidable as well.

I just think that in a crowded race we have four different candidates, right?

So we have also the councilwoman from Providence.

- AnderBois.

- Also from a state senator as well.

- Cindy Coyne.

- So there are four candidates.

I think that that works in the incumbent's favor in the situation.

But I think it will be close.

- Just last point on these races before we move on to our next topic.

Whoever emerges from the Republicans, you have Aaron Guckian and Elaine Pelino.

And weirdly, Elaine Pelino is, she's not the endorsed candidate.

She's ahead by 20 points.

And it's kind of a dumpster fire on the Republican side.

But it's interesting with Ken Block now in the race.

And I think whoever emerges, what do you see?

I mean, it probably won't be almost better for him if the Republican dropped out and you go head-to-head with whoever the Democrat is.

But I wonder what you see beyond that.

Ken has kind of sat back as he should before the primary.

Whoever emerges from the Democratic primary, what do you see?

- I think Ken would be better off if there were not a Republican opponent.

I think that the Democrat's gonna have a huge advantage going forward.

And I respect Ken.

We've been on the show with Ken here.

- Sure.

- And respect Ken.

I think he's very thoughtful.

I may not agree on everything with him, but he's thoughtful.

People know him.

But I think that a three-person race does not help Ken.

I think it helps the Democrat.

- Absolutely agree with the mayor.

It would be better for him to be in a head-to-head.

- Yeah, we shall see.

Okay.

Running a campaign in 2026 looks a lot different than it did even a few election cycles ago.

As social media has become a real factor, candidates still advertise on TV, but not as much.

So Dante, most people who are watching this know you.

You're a Rhode Island filmmaker now, but you spent a long time in public relations with RDW.

You've seen campaign cycles come and go.

How have things changed over the last five to 10 years?

- Well, obviously there... It was all about television advertising.

And specifically in local races, it was all about affiliate television advertising.

And, you know, the general managers of stations were like, "We can't wait for the next election cycle."

- A lot of money.

Yeah.

- Right?

It's a ton of money.

And it still is in some ways.

But it's broken down by demography now, right?

So if you're gonna buy the six o'clock news on Channel 12 or Channel 10, right, you're gearing toward a very specific audience.

It's not a wide audience anymore because a lot of people are getting their news from the after effects, the residuals of the news, the clips that they're seeing on social media.

And then the other thing is, when you talk about demography, is connected TV.

And, you know, if you're watching various cable, various streamer systems, you know, there are commercials like on Hulu or Amazon.

Those are almost served to you by your predisposed inclinations.

- Is it an algorithm?

- It's an algorithm.

- They see what you see.

- And then there's social media.

Then there's Instagram and Facebook and X and all of that.

So there's so much variety in terms of where you can spend your money, and so much specific targeting as to who you want to get your message so that you're minimizing waste to the degree possible.

- Yeah, no, I think that's right.

I think there are two things on that.

And one is, I can't get certain candidates off of my social media feeds.

And they're advertisements.

So they clearly are targeting me.

I want people to know I've already voted.

I've done the mail ballot.

- Yeah.

Stay out of my stream, right?

- You don't need to do that.

But the other thing that's changed has been early voting.

- Right.

- Right?

So you now have early voting that starts today.

And also the mail ballot when you have no excuse mail balloting.

I don't even remember the last time I voted at the polls.

Because I get my mail ballot for this primary and for the general and send my mail ballot in.

So a lot of more people are voting by mail.

A lot of people are voting early.

And that means that you have to reach them early.

Yesterday I got about six pieces of mail in my mailbox.

- Physically in the mail.

- Six pieces.

- For local races?

- For local races, but for statewide races as well.

- Okay.

- And the thing about that is, again remember, I mean, part of that, I'm sure it's time for early voting, but if you've gotten your mail ballot and you've decided to fill it in, you know, that may be too late.

So you have to change the focus versus in the last, in the past, it'd be the last couple of weeks, basically.

Now the last couple weeks, there's a lot of voting going on, so you really want to try to start even before then.

And that benefits people that have more money.

But the targeting piece, as Dante said, is key.

I don't know how the algorithm works, but it works with me because I don't get very much from Republicans, but I get a lot of Democratic.

- So another thing that's important to remember is how the media reports debates, right?

So that has a filtering effect onto, you know, the voting populace, that's number one.

The second thing is earned media or PR, you know, what the campaigns themselves are doing to get free media.

- And that's why in the governor's race, he's doing all these, Governor McKee is doing all these ceremonial signings of bills that he had signed for real a couple of months ago because he knows somebody's gonna show up and ask him a question.

- And the third thing is how polls are reported.

So the more emphasis media put on polls, you know, whether it's the Quinnipiac or the- - Salve.

- Salve.

You know, the more they're talking about it, the more nuances they're giving it.

Joe Fleming on Channel 12 gets a lot of visibility now.

That all factors into, ultimately, who are you gonna vote for, right?

Or it becomes important within the, you know, ingredient mix of how you're gonna make that decision.

- I think the polling also helps in terms of raising money.

I think when you show that you are viable and show that you're doing well that's a good way to help raise money.

And I also think, and I don't know how this works.

I've not seen a study, but I do believe that the polling can also influence undecided voters.

And that is, I think, people want to vote for a winner.

But I haven't seen a study on that, but that's just kind of a belief that I have that it can have an impact on people who might be undecided in a race and looking to support a candidate.

- The Mayor is not always right.

(panel members laugh) - His kids will tell him that.

But to your point about social media, when you ran in 2014, really nobody was pumping out clips afterwards.

It was what was reported in the paper and maybe some clips and maybe a little bit of talk radio.

But now you're inundated and that can, if you're not watching the full debate and not a lot of people are, you are influenced by that snapshot in time.

- And then you have this whole other specter, which is annoying and aggravating of all the journalists out there who aren't journalists, just people, regular people who have phones- - Yeah.

wanna-bes.

- who have an opinion, right?

And that's tens of thousands of people who are constantly, constantly adding commentary to feeds, threads, whatever.

And, you know, whether it's go red or whether it's, you know, go blue, they're continuing to put a lot of stuff into the ecosystem of politics.

- I find it interesting with the providence - - That never happened before.

- Yeah, exactly.

We didn't talk about the providence mayor's race earlier in the polling, but I think partially because David Morales doesn't have the money to do it, but he was adamant.

I'm not advertising on TV, because that's not his demographic, right?

- Well, it's not only just that it's not his demographic.

I mean, the money is very expensive.

But I'll tell you, I went on TV the last week before the campaign.

- For mayor or for governor?

- For mayor.

For mayor.

- Okay.

- No, for governor, I had a lot more money, but we went the last week, and something you'll enjoy, we had to redo our ad because someone told me that my first ad looks like a hostage video.

(Jim laughs) So we did an ad, we did an ad which- - Was that me?

Did I say that?

(panel members laughing) - Was not in there giving you coaching or what?

- So we had to redo that.

But I don't think television is as important in the Providence mayor's race.

I mean, it's helpful, don't get me wrong.

And the other thing about television that I learned from going on, it's a magic box.

It's a magic box.

And when you go out, and after you've been on TV and you meet folks, especially the senior high rises and other places, people have seen you, it's just a little bit different.

I mean, the reaction that they have.

I've been out of office almost 12 years, and I'm amazed at the number of people who still recognize me and say hello.

So it's amazing to me because it's been almost 12 years next year.

- Let me tell you, if David Morales had the money to be on Channel 10 and Channel 12, - He'd be on TV.

- he'd be on TV.

- It's not a, oh, it's a dirty medium or whatever.

- Right.

So let's be honest here.

- But it's a lot of money for a small audience.

I mean, you're right.

You have to pay Channel 12 and 10 prices for the guy watching in Richmond or Cumberland or Newport- - And you're paying top of the card.

- Right.

To try to get to the Providence voters.

- Yeah, no, I would just say, I think Dante's right.

I mean, if you had the money, I think you want to do some of it, for sure.

But Providence is a little bit different.

And also now with the level of social media that you have and the ability to reach people you can reach a lot of folks.

I mean, it made me nervous when I was running because I didn't have the money to do it, and that's why we waited till the very end to do it.

But it was just a week of TV.

And it worked out.

- And he's using, you know, David is using his wrestling mic skills beautifully.

I mean whether that is resonating with people beyond that specific demography is another issue.

- [Jim] You know what I miss- - Although I see a lot of signs for him.

- But signs don't vote as we all know.

- That's right.

- What I miss is that, it began to change when you ran both times... There would be the balloons, you would have your supporters, it would make the six o'clock news.

Now it's these kind of soft openings.

I remember when Gina Raimondo ran the second time, she basically released the video.

And a lot of people don't do that.

There were some people who didn't want to take your one time to make a splash on the front page of the papers and six o'clock news and say, "We don't want to answer questions.

We're just gonna announce."

And I think, we've lost something in the process with that.

- Well, it's different.

Certainly the world has changed and the way you reach people has changed.

And I think that it's certainly different.

I wouldn't use Governor Raimondo as an example only because she's extraordinary in the sense of when you have several million dollars, you can kind of do anything that you want to do.

- But I thought she was perfect.

Look, I was going hammer and tongue with her during all those COVID press conferences.

She handled herself great.

I though it was a mistake not to stand there with the big announcement and to do a soft opening.

- Yeah.

Well, by the way, I mean, 30 seconds of a good TV news report is equal to a thousand television commercials.

- Yeah.

- You know.

So you've really got to balance where you want to put your effort, and you have to be strategic about it.

- Governor McKee this week put a pause on new installation of increasingly controversial Flock surveillance cameras as a growing number of communities have expressed concern about the guardrails surrounding use of the information these cameras gather.

Angel, law enforcement in most communities love these, but I think it's the rules around the information getting out.

Now we find some rogue cops or maybe stalking their ex-partners and that type of thing.

They need to get a handle on the guardrails, I think.

- Well, I think getting a handle on the guardrails is certainly important.

But I have to say, I mean, there's nothing more important than keeping the community safe.

And we saw with the tragic Brown University shooting, you know, people wanted more cameras, right?

Why didn't they have a camera here or there?

And so it's kind of both sides there in that sense.

And I really tend to support the law enforcement on this.

And that is, I don't like to see that it's been canceled everywhere.

I respect the ACLU.

They're doing great work around the country, really necessary.

But there has to be a way that we can keep these cameras to help keep communities safe.

- Listen, there are bad apples and bad actors everywhere, including the ACLU.

And, you know, the fact of the matter is that, exactly as the mayor said, when there's a crime, and, God forbid it's you, right, you want every potential resource at your fingertips to help solve that crime.

And I just read something, and I wish I had it with me, but there were like 700 reporting agencies, and this is a Flock, this is a Flock reported item.

They helped solve like a million different crimes in 2025.

They helped locate 10,000 missing people.

They recovered 20% of lost, stolen cars.

So I think we have to balance certainly personal privacy and obviously, you know, make sure that there are consequences for rogue behavior.

But the good far outweighs the bad.

And this whole argument is just, makes my head want to explode.

- I find it interesting that, and I don't know why it is.

A lot of communities have had this.

And like you'll talk to Colonel Winquist, an a former state cop who's now the chief in Cranston, They've been doing it for years, doing all of what you just said.

But like town's not like South Kingstown, Gloucester, Narragansett.

Why is it happening now?

- Sure.

Because no one goes to City Hall to say that they're happy.

And so what you have- - You know that firsthand, right?

- I wish they did.

- Hey Mayor, we have 10 people waiting for you.

They want to tell you what a great job you're doing.

- No one goes to City Hall.

And so, you know, the loudest, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

And I think what you have is probably a lot of these council meetings overrun by 30, 40, 50 people.

I don't know the numbers, but I'm just guessing that most of the folks are there and there's a silent majority at home that's not talking about it and they're paying attention to the people who show up.

- So what needs to be done to allay the fears of maybe people who are on the fence?

Some communities have canceled it altogether.

Others are like, "We need to set up a bigger, you know, a bigger fence around what we're doing."

- Yeah.

I don't know.

I think oftentimes we're legislating for the minority or for the loudest voices, and it's just so outrageous.

I don't know what needs to be done.

You know, I think the company is doing all the right things.

I mean, they're very talking points oriented but- - And they're not the only company to have these.

They're the main one, right?

- I think they're the main one.

I don't know that there are any others that are as ubiquitous as Flock.

But I do know that the numbers are the numbers, and they need to put those numbers out there.

And again, it comes down to, when the inevitable happens and you need those tools, like at Brown, where everyone is saying, "Why didn't this camera work?

How come this is not?"

And, you know, the fact of the matter is every restaurant we go into, every drug store we go into, every speed bump we go over near a school, you know, there's so much surveillance of us already.

This is not like new to us.

- And if you watch any of the dramas that are set in Europe, they always talk about CCTV.

- Yeah.

- They have every... They can piece it together there because they go, "Oh, go to the CCTV."

- Right.

I would rather have that than not have it.

- All right.

All right.

Let's go to outrages and/or kudos.

Mayor, let's begin with you this week.

- [Angel] Well, my kudos is to you.

- Oh, come on.

- The last time I was here- - That's why I invited Angel on, because he is giving kudos to me.

- The last time I was here, you were surprised as was I with the announcement that you were gonna to be inducted into the Rhode Island TV and Radio Hall of Fame.

So kudos to you for your outstanding career and the recognition from your peers.

It's exceptional.

And so I just want to congratulate you, and really kudos.

- I appreciate that.

So they did it.

They surprise you now when they come in.

And so Angel was on with Sue Cienki, and I saw people kind of coming in the studio.

So if their goal was to surprise me, mission accomplished, - It was great to see you surprised because usually you're in control.

- You knew I was at a loss for words.

I'm like, I don't want you to- - He was just afraid it was a subpoena.

- Yeah, exactly.

Dante, outrage or kudo?

- I have two, I have both.

- All right.

- And I have multiples.

- Try to contain yourself.

- Okay, so the kudos, first and foremost, one of the best lawyers in America.

- [Jim] Oh, there we go.

It's a love fest here today.

- Just happened today, right?

- Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank You.

- That.

The other is the New Bedford Whaling Museum coming out with the very best PR campaign I've seen in a while.

They got a bad review calling them the worst aquarium ever.

They're not an aquarium.

So they've been using that and selling thousands and thousands of t-shirts and sweatshirts.

And I forgot what the third one was.

- Well, as you're thinking about that, when I was at ABC 6, we covered a lot of Fall River in New Bedford.

I remember when they built the new one and it was a huge deal for the city, and drew people from all over the place.

Outrage.

- My Outrage is that, it has to do with the Flock cameras.

The speeders on the highways right now, I've never seen it so bad.

So, you know, we talk about impairment and we talk about distraction, but those are only compounded by the fact that people are going fast, like really stupidly fast.

I think we should take those Flock cameras, put them on the overpasses.

Anyone going over 80, they get napped.

- They get a little cattle prod?

- Yep.

- Would you go for punishment.

- I am all for it.

- Would you think?

All right.

- There's never been a more dangerous time on the highways, and even if we had a thousand troopers, it wouldn't help.

- I'm not sure what the ACLU would be happy with that.

- Oh, they're never happy with me.

- We'll see.

All right.

Angel and Dante, thank you both.

We appreciate it.

And thank you for joining us.

Be sure and check us out on Facebook, X, Instagram, and on the Ocean State Media YouTube channel and wherever you get your favorite podcast.

Take us along with you.

We'll see you next time right here on "Lively."

(upbeat music) (upbeat music) - [Narrator] "Lively" is generously supported in part by John Hazen White's "Lookout."