- Can she get over the finish line as what she is?

She is the corporate candidate in this race.

- The only issue, I think, that I see him running on is the rent stabilization.

I'd like to introduce him to New York City to show him how badly that works.

- Many of the people supporting Brett Smiley the fiercest aren't necessarily the people you wanna put on a commercial or you wanna put on a mailer.

(bright theme music) - And welcome into our latest episode of "Lively."

I'm Jim Hummel, joined this week by Boston Globe columnist Dan McGowan and Sue Cienki, national committeewoman for the Rhode Island Republican Party.

Well, the gloves finally came off.

Governor McKee and Helena Foulkes squared off in a radio debate this week that at times got personal.

With less than a month until the primary, will it move the needle for a race that has consistently had Foulkes in the lead?

Dan, it was nice to see them one-on-one.

- Yes.

- They did it with Bill Bartholomew, who of course you see here on "Lively" also.

And I think when they get to go after each other, it's a window into the campaign.

- Yeah, I mean, it's the best look at sort of what these two actually think of one another, I think, is one way of looking at it too.

It also, you know, for Governor McKee, I think a lot of the reaction has been, "Wow, Governor McKee, you know, kind of showed up for the first time in this campaign."

And you know, I think that's the challenge that Helena Foulkes is gonna have as she, you know, tries to finish this race off is, remember, last time the whole narrative was Helena Foulkes came on strong, she won the debates, and that's why she was so close to winning the race.

You know, this time Governor McKee goes in pretty low expectations, right?

Everybody thinks Helena Foulkes is up 20 points.

She's gonna win this race pretty easily.

Governor McKee exceeded expectations in that debate.

Will it matter?

I think it's more difficult to say if it actually can close the gap.

I mean, if it's 15, 20 points, it's very hard- - With five weeks left.

- Very hard to come back from that.

- Yeah, it was interesting, you're right.

I think that Helena, last time during the election, she started too late.

Here, I think she came out gangbusters, and she was 20 points up.

She didn't come across as authentic to me, whereas McKee came across as he's one of us.

He's one of us.

So I think he did himself a lot of favor in this debate, and she did not.

- I'll tell you the word that he, the phrase that he kept using.

He kept talking about working families, and she's not like us and working families.

And that's an interesting conversa- - Well, that's a page out of Myrth York, isn't it?

"I'm here for working families."

- And it's certainly a page out of, you know, consultant- - 101.

- Democratic Playbook for sure, but you know what?

To the point, you know, he came out, I think, stronger on kind of issues.

He knows how to be the governor, whether he's good at it or not, he knows how to be the governor.

So he kinda was able to be successful there and then try to tie it back to, yeah, I'm like you guys.

Now, again, I'm still very doubtful that it actually closes the gap, but I think this was a winning week for Governor McKee.

- Yeah, 20 points down in the polls is a lot of ground to cover.

A lot of ground to cover.

He's still gotta keep hitting hard on her.

He's gotta come out.

I am sick and tired of seeing her commercials on TV.

Oh, Helena, she's wonderful.

She's this.

She does not come across that way.

She comes across as an elitist.

And is that what the people in Rhode Island want?

- You know, the one rub on Governor McKee has been this, what I call the Cumberland Cabal that he's had.

You know, Gina Raimondo brought in a lot of pretty heavy hitters from around the country.

Her original chief of staff had worked for the governor of Maryland, Steve Newman.

And I wonder, that really kind of struck a nerve with him.

That was the one point during the debate.

And if you haven't watched the debate, go to ripodcast.com.

That's where the whole thing is housed, that he said, "State government's being run by your high school buddies."

- Yeah.

- Boy, he really took issue with that.

- He was very upset about that.

And by the way, appropriately so.

I think that's the way you defend, you know.

There is some truth, by the way, to like, maybe not your high school buddies, but sort of the Cumberland Cabal.

It's not untrue.

It's just that in Governor McKee's take, and I think Governor McKee handles it pretty well, is, look, I put people around me who I trust.

Joe Almond is not a Cumberland guy.

He's somebody who's been truly- - [Jim] But he's Blackstone Valley.

- And he's part of that kind- - The mayoral.

- The mayoral chief executive kinda crowd.

So yeah, I thought he handled that really well.

I think Helena Foulkes maybe thought she was gonna get one over on him there, because there is a perception.

I think she thought that might, uh, I score a point there.

And actually, he was able to volley it back and probably win the point on that one.

- You're right, and of course, when you're governor, you wanna be surrounded by people that you trust.

So he was the mayor.

He was a successful mayor in Cumberland.

He wants to bring that success to the state.

Has he done that?

I don't think so.

I think there's a huge leap from being mayor to running the state as, as governor.

And there's a bit of, I guess, stink on him that he's incompetent.

So did he bring the right people to surround him?

She should have hit more on that.

I'm surprised when the whole Washington Bridge disaster happened that he didn't point to his predecessor.

"Hey, I came in and this had already happened.

This was because of Gina Raimondo.

She was a former governor.

I took care of it.

It's gonna be taken care of.

We're gonna have a new bridge."

- But you know why that didn't happen?

She was the sitting commerce.

- Right, right.

- But you know there had to be some Washington bite your tongue because that's gonna look bad.

- To Sue's point, you know, you could do, now she's not the commerce secretary, right?

And you could say- - Still throwing her boss.

- You could kind of push back and say your friends are the ones that broke the bridge 'cause Helena Foulkes kind of has this a little bit of a- - 2.0 Gina.

- 2.0 thing.

- I wonder too though, look, it's a Democratic primary in a kind of a year.

I'm not sure how people are that much energized.

And the AFL-CIO chose to sit out, but the governor in the last couple of weeks has been racking up other union endorsements, including NEA.

So when Bill Bartholomew said you think it's 20 points, I don't think anybody thinks it's 20 points.

And it works.

Is that gonna close the gap?

I don't know, but there's a lot of power in incumbency.

- Well, there's a huge amount of power in incumbency, because you get to be on TV, you get to be on radio all the time.

People are talking about- - [Jim] The ceremonial signing of the bill.

- Right.

You have a huge, huge advantage.

The unions are huge in Rhode Island.

You have people that are door knocking.

You have thinking, I think the AFL-CIO, I think that was a huge mistake, because as a Democratic governor, why do you care now about them so much when they didn't support you when you gave them everything that they wanted?

That was a huge mistake, I think.

- The challenge that Governor McKee has is 'cause he's done a good job of combating this in the public of, you know, he's rolled out a bunch of these other endorsements.

But what I'll remind everybody is that all of those or many of those union leaders were at the table for the discussion with the AFL-CIO.

They had a choice.

They could have voted to endorse him.

I think what they're doing a little bit is hedging their bets, right?

We're not as a group gonna endorse, probably not gonna spend as much money into the expenditure.

- But if the rank and file wanna go vote for- - Have at it, right?

- You know, I wonder too, the rub I've heard, and I don't know whether you've heard this in, Dan, you're out and about talking to people, that Helena Foulkes' command of some of the complex issues is, let's just say, not what some people think it should be for a governor.

I've heard some meetings she's had with people where she's just not up on the issues.

Now, I'm not there.

I'm not saying this is, but I've heard this as a rub.

And I wonder the consultants, the out-of-towners, you wonder, it's almost what they did with Sheldon Whitehouse and Link Chafee all those years ago.

Let's just get across the finish line and keep her.

Let's not make a mistake.

Let's play defense rather than offense.

- I think it's clear that's the race that she's running.

Now, if she wins, whether it's by one point or by 20 points, then she'll get to say, "Look, I ran a great campaign and I won the race."

It definitely feels as though she's a little more guarded than she was four years ago when she kind of was able to take the gloves off and just go about it and win.

That being said, you know, when I go back to can she, you know, who's gonna win this race or can that gap get closed?

I just look at the bigger communities.

Is she gonna win Providence?

I think yes.

Is she gonna win Cranston?

I think yes.

Is she gonna win Warwick?

I think yes.

- That's a lot of places.

- It's hard to come back from that.

It's hard to counteract winning the three biggest places.

- That's the trifecta.

- Right.

- Providence, Cranston, and Warwick.

If you win those in any race that's statewide, you've got a lock on it.

I'm surprised after four years that, you know, she ran four years ago, that she doesn't have a good handle on the issues.

She should be right on top of it.

She should be aggressive.

She could go after him.

He's made a lot of mistakes in the four years.

But he is a nice guy.

He comes across as a nice guy, and she is just, the likability factor is not there.

- Yeah, look, I think it's certainly the thing that she's contending with.

You know, I'm always hesitant on likability because I never wanna say a woman is unlikable, right?

And Sue, you're lovely.

- I can say that.

(all laughing) - But no.

- You said it, yeah.

- I think it is- - She's won a couple elections over the years.

- I think it is her that is definitely gonna be the Helena Foulkes challenge is, can she get over the finish line as what she is?

She is the corporate candidate in this race.

She is kind of the favorite of the elites.

There just happens to be a lot of elites in the Democratic Party, right?

- Which is amazing how the parties have split.

- Switched over, right?

- How parties have flipped.

- You used to be the country club party, right?

- Yeah.

The Republicans were considered the corporatists, and not anymore.

- Let's go to the Republican side.

It's a bit of a dumpster fire with the primary between Aaron Guckian, who's the endorsed candidate, and Elaine Pelino.

And look, Pelino's always difficult, but there are polls that show that she's up significantly.

Where do you see this side going?

- Where do I see the side going?

It's who gets their people out to vote.

This is a mid-year election.

It is not a presidential year.

So you always see- - And it's a primary.

- And it's a primary, which is unusual on the Republican side, we typically don't have the primary.

Aaron ran a race against the lieutenant governor.

This is a completely different race when you're running for governor of Rhode Island.

He's got to get out there.

Elaine is a newcomer.

She's not a politician.

Does she have a good handle on the issues?

They're both very nice people.

It is an uphill battle for both of them.

- Yeah, just before I got on the show today, I looked up, go back to 2002 when you had Governor Carcieri or candidate Carcieri versus Jim Bennett in primary.

- That was the last Republican primary.

- Well, you had Allan Fung and Ken Block.

- Oh, that's right.

- But if you go back '02, by this point, right now in that race, Governor Carcieri had already loaned his campaign a million dollars and had spent half a million already, right?

Just to get up his name recognition, to be able to get himself over the top against Jim Bennett in that primary.

I think this is the challenge.

The truth is, it doesn't really matter who's gonna come out of that primary because the other side, the Democrats and Ken Block are just, they're gonna be better funded.

They're gonna be more equipped and more ready to go when it comes to interviews and debates and things like that.

I feel for the Republicans, but I don't think it matters who comes out of that primary.

- Yeah, it's media, money, message.

You need the money to buy the media to get your message out.

And if you can't, you have to have that name recognition.

You know, when candidates come before us and maybe they get insulted when I say to them, "You need 3 to $5 million.

You just need that here."

And this isn't- - Well, that's why Ashley Kalus, plug and play, right?

- Yeah.

- 'Cause she came in funding.

- She came in and she said, "I can self-fund."

Which is great.

You still need to get people invested in your campaign, I think.

And you see Ken Block doing that.

He's going out and getting people invested in his campaign.

He's gonna be better funded than a lot of the Republicans.

- Do you think there's any chance either Guckian or Pelino win that they would drop out, or you think they're in it for the long run?

- I don't know.

That's something you'd have to ask them.

I mean, you have to start looking at the polls.

You have to start being realistic.

I think- - If the goal is to knock off the Democrat.

- If the goal is to knock off the Democrat, what do you do?

Do you have a serious conversation with these people and say, "Hey, listen, a three-way race, you know, who's gonna win?"

Start saying Governor Foulkes.

- All right, less than a month until the primary, and then we will keep an eye on it.

Campaign for Providence mayor may be the undercard to the governor's race, but State Representative David Morales and Mayor Brett Smiley provide starkly different visions for the city and have been taking their show on the road a lot the past few weeks.

We always joke they do so many of these forums that they could probably each do each other's speeches.

It's like the presidential race.

What do you see in this race?

- What do I see in this race?

That Mayor Smiley's in trouble.

But I'm a political.

So I always say, am I in a political bubble thinking that Morales can actually win?

I don't know.

He's young.

He's a socialist.

Is that where the city of Providence wants to go?

I think Brett Smiley has done a really good job in Providence.

I think he's been a good mayor.

Has he made missteps along the way?

Yeah, I mean, he should have cleaned up, you know, the snowstorm.

He could have done a better job.

And those are essential services that people vote.

- He was a meat and potatoes guy.

That was, you know- - Yes, that was his thing.

I'm gonna clean up the garbage.

I'm gonna get the garbage.

He actually did a great job.

I think the police and the fire have a lot of respect for him.

I know the police do really think very highly of him.

I think they're worried about David Morales becoming the mayor of Providence.

You know, his whole big stick, I mean, the only issue I think that I see him running on is the rent stabilization.

I'd like to introduce him to New York City to show him how badly that works.

Socialism just doesn't work.

It's a failed policy.

It's failed over and over and over again.

So I wanna say to the people in Providence, "What a fabulous city you have.

What a fabulous city that it can be.

It's got a long way to go.

Don't screw it up."

- One of the challenges that Mayor Smiley has is if you've watched any of these early presidential candidates for 2028, Rahm Emanuel has been getting a lot of praise, but he even jokes himself.

He says, "My problem is that all the Republicans like me, but none of the Democrats like me."

And I think I would introduce Mayor Smiley to the Sue problem, right?

You love him, you'll vote for him.

You don't have a choice, right?

- I can't vote for him.

- And so I think Mayor Smiley does have a little bit of that problem.

It's easy to say just a Republican, but Mayor Smiley has this reputation of it's a little bit of, whether it's more moderate people, you know, in most elections, it's nice to have police union endorsement or a fire union endorsement.

Except that the police union in Providence tends to be, you know, a little bit vulgar, a little bit, you know, not necessarily- - Rough around the edges.

- Yeah, not necessarily, you know, in touch with the community of voters that David Morales has.

And so all the people, or many of the people supporting Brett Smiley, the fiercest, aren't necessarily the people you wanna put on a commercial or you wanna put on a mailer.

And I think what David Morales has done really well is, you know, looks like the community.

He talks like the community.

He speaks Spanish pretty well.

Mayor Smiley does too, but, you know, he's captured this affordability issue.

Is it enough?

I think it's really hard to be an, it's never happened, an incumbent mayor's never lost a primary.

- Well, to get- - I think it's gonna be close though.

- Yeah, I do too.

- I think it's gonna be close.

- Why do you think he's in trouble?

- Because I think that the essential services piece, you know, is he taking care of essential services?

And of course, everybody loves free stuff.

Who doesn't love to get free swag?

And people are like, "Yes, I want rent stabilization."

They don't see the other side of that.

They don't see the side of landlords going, "Uh, we're not gonna rent to people.

You are gonna create a bigger housing crisis problem than now."

- Or we're not gonna do construction because- - We're not gonna do construction, and you have developers that say, "Uh-uh.

We're not going to do this."

- But hasn't the rub always been getting that generation?

It sounds great, getting them to the polls.

Now, Mamdani figured that out in New York, but actually, you know, they always say, "We're the ones who are the reliable ones to get out there."

Can you get an 18, 20, 25-year-old to the polls?

Does it translate, or are they apathetic?

- Well, it's that this is the test of this race, right?

- You no longer in that, I'm looking at you, but- - Yeah, I used to be a young person, right?

I mean, I think they say half or more of the Democratic primary in Providence tends to be people over the age of 60 and homeowners.

That's not a great look for David Morales as he tries to do this.

That being said, yeah, I mean, the test here is, can you do a Mamdani thing where you get out new voters?

Obama obviously did in a presidential campaign in '08.

The thing with, when you have no money, and Dave Morales is at an 11-to-1 financial disadvantage, he's doing all the things that good candidates do.

He's knocking on a lot of doors.

His people are everywhere.

Signs don't fall, but they are everywhere.

All that being said, what I know is I'm being inundated with Brett Smiley mailers.

I'm being inundated with the TV, with the commercials from Mayor Smiley.

And so it's really hard to rebut.

You know, one of the things Mayor Smiley's done really well with his commercials and kinda going after the public safety issue is he's kind of taken away that rent control argument.

So if you're really excited about rent control, you have to remember that David Morales is that guy, because right now, everybody's kind of talking about, is it fair that Brett Smiley's going after him?

But even if that's the conversation, it's still more about public safety than it is about the issue.

- It is about public safety.

And people remember what it was like with Mayor Elorza.

So I think that endorsement may hurt Morales.

- Yeah, does that help him or hurt Morales?

- Yeah, 'cause people go, "Oh, the ATVs were running wild.

Nobody wanted to go into the city.

You had people coming-" - Giving meters and the washing machines.

- Yeah.

- The one thing I will say about this though, that where I come down on where that endorsement potentially helps Morales, and it may be small and narrow, but what David Morales, one of his biggest challenges is he's 27 years old.

He doesn't look like a mayor.

He looks like a young person.

And what Mayor Elorza, for many of his flaws, I wrote about him a lot.

One of the things he had really well was that he had kind of, let's say, the Ivy League kind of wealthy liberals who are intellectual.

They think through who they're gonna vote for, but they kind of liked him and they weren't worried about like giving meters or silly things like that.

And so I think he does offer a little bit of credibility to David Morales.

- Briefly, you walk in- - Yeah, but I think Smiley's got those people locked.

- Well, he's gonna win the East Side Providence for sure.

- He's got them locked in.

- You walk in national circles, and I know the Senate primary in Michigan this week, you know, Democratic socialists and Donald Trump said that's a win for the Republican Party.

I wonder as the Democrats try to get their footing for '28, and even in these midterms, is the socialist movement on the left-hand side gonna damage the Democratic Party?

- It should, it should damage them, and it should frighten every American.

We are not a socialist country.

It has failed everywhere.

These young people, I don't- - [Jim] You think they're not taking civics?

- Yeah, they're not being educated.

- You and I were taught socialism, communism.

No way.

- They had a pandemic.

Come on.

- Yeah.

- Well, yeah, that's true.

They missed social studies.

- They missed.

You're right, and that hurt students all across the country.

And, you know, when you're young, you're idealistic, you think things are supposed to go a certain way, and then reality hits you in the face.

This does not work.

- You know, I think one of the things that works when it comes to the candidates who have been successful, Abdul El-Sayed, Mamdani, these are like really talented speakers.

They're pretty good-looking guys.

I think those kind of, they're handsome-ish.

You can do push (indistinct).

- Romance.

- You know, they have unique charisma.

David Morales, not quite like that, but he has a level of charisma.

The challenge is that when you put this together, for every Mamdani that you get, you get 10 people who, you know, show up on the doors and can't have a conversation with you.

And that's why it's hard to imagine this kind of taking over the Democratic party.

- Final though on that?

- He is a car salesman.

That's what Mamdani is.

He sold a bill of goods.

Also, there were only 21% of the electorate that actually showed up.

- Yeah, very small.

- And now you go into New York City and people complain about him.

I mean, the, the families from 9/11, they don't want him at the event.

They feel very taken back by some of the statements that he's made.

And I think people really have to educate themselves on the issue, but it is gonna come down to who shows up.

Who gets their people to the vote?

- Of course.

- If Morales get his people to vote, if he gets his WWE fans to show up, 'cause go do that, 'cause I think he might be successful at that.

Not as mayor of Providence.

- Let me shift gears.

You had an interesting column, Christina Paxson, Brown University president, and has been there for a long time for, I mean, college administration in this day and age is tough.

Almost 15 years.

You suggested a potential replacement in your column.

Tell us about that.

- Yeah, I mean, there's nothing that says elitism like the Boston Globe thinking Gina Raimondo should be the replacement.

(all laughing) But I'll take that heat.

Yeah, you know, to me, Gina Raimondo wants to be president of something.

It's probably not gonna be the United States.

So how about Brown University?

- Well, she's made it clear for '28, she's out.

- She's out for 2028.

She's a fabulous fundraiser.

You know, has, I think, the gravitas as a former cabinet secretary to come into a place like Brown and really, I think, make a bit of a splash.

She's very close with the chancellor, Brian Moynihan, you know, from Bank of America.

So I think it's a realistic option.

But is it definitely gonna happen?

I mean, there's certainly feedback that I've gotten.

You know, she's not an academic.

She'd probably clash with the students.

She'd clash with the faculty.

She is not, despite what we think, what maybe some people think of her, she's not far to the left the way the traditional Brown University student is.

- Right, it's interesting.

She's a great fundraiser, and that's something that Christina Paxson did.

She could raise a lot of money.

She transformed Brown University.

There was a lot of building going on.

So Gina brings that.

But what is she missing?

Probably several other things.

The other thing that she brings is, if you look at the past presidents, you know, you look at people that were very invested in Rhode Island.

I don't think Christina Paxson really was invested in Rhode Island.

She wasn't good community outreach.

You think of Gregorian who was there, people loved him.

- And even Ruth Simmons.

- Ruth Simmons.

- Right, Ruth Simmons and Gordon G probably wasn't here enough, but really invested himself in the community.

- But Gregorian was.

- Oh, he was there.

- And that's why they named the Fox Point Elementary.

- Yeah.

- How often would they do that?

- Yeah.

- Right, people loved him.

So that's something I think Gina knows the state.

She could get very invested in Providence.

And that's what you kind of want somebody from Brown to really reach out to the community and say, "Hey, we're here for you.

You're here for us."

It's a symbiotic relationship.

- If I'm the mayor of Providence, whether it's Smiley or Morales, if I'm the governor, whether it's McKee or Foulkes or Guckian or Pelino or Block, having a president of Brown who does know the place, who you could actually get on the phone and have a serious conversation with, "Hey, I wanna develop the 195 land this way.

What do you think about this?"

It is so much more meaningful 'cause it is true.

Christina Paxson, while she, I think fundraising-wise, did a great job, you know, she was definitely somebody who maybe until after the Brown shooting, 'cause she's been pretty good lately as a community person.

For the most part, Brown's been a little bit out of touch with the community.

She's not the kind of person that the governor calls and says, "Hey, I need a meeting right now."

- [Jim] Did you ever see her drink at Dell's with a straw?

- Well- - Oh, that would be?

- That would be a sin.

That would be her out of there.

- I think after 15 years, she- - Well, it became an ivory tower.

Right, it was an ivory tower separate from the state.

And I think if you get invested in it, I think PC does a good job of that.

They bring people in.

It becomes part of Rhode Island.

- Just last point.

Do you think the shooting hurt her or put her over the edge?

What role did the shooting take in this?

Was she ready to go?

Do you think this gave her a little nudge?

- I think it exhausted her.

And look, she did not handle certainly, you know, public-facing part of this.

She did not handle that especially well.

That being said, she was ready to go a couple of different times over the last couple of years.

She had a pandemic.

She had the shooting.

She had the, you know, Israel situation.

So, you know, she had to deal with a lot, and I think that was probably what put her over the top to, you know, "I'm ready to call it quits."

- Okay, let's go to outrageous and/or kudos.

Sue, let's begin with you this week.

- So I'm gonna give a kudos to Sophie Cunningham that she is standing up for women's sports.

- [Jim] And tell us who she is.

- Sophie Cunningham is a basketball player in the Women's National Basketball Association.

And she's basically come out and said that men have no right, or they shouldn't be in women's sports.

And she's followed up with Sabalenka, who's a tennis player, Martina Navratilova.

They've also come out and said, you know, women's sports are for women.

And being a previous college soccer player, I appreciate everything they've done.

Title IX was supposed to be there for us to give women an opportunity.

You've seen a rise in women and young girls participating in sports, so I wanna give a shout-out to Sophie.

- And now she has people cheering her on and protesting her.

I mean, she's divided.

- Yeah, but divided, I mean, just come on, there's a biology in place here.

So, good.

I'd also like to give a shout-out to the City of Providence and the World Cup, how they handled it.

The excitement in the city was just unbelievable.

I think that the World Cup really showcased America, how fabulous we are.

- You get the last minute, Mr.

McGowan.

- Couldn't agree more on the World Cup.

Was fabulous, had a great time.

My outrage of the week is just this week, just a couple of days ago, this Sergeant Hanley in Providence was, you know, allowed once again to have his job restored.

Of course, he was the one that pleaded no contest to assaulting a person that they had in custody.

You know, I think what is so outrageous about this, and you have a mayor in Providence who's a pro-police mayor.

He's certainly, you know, standing by his law enforcement officers, but the mayor wants this guy gone.

The number two of the department was on this panel said, "This is outrageous.

This was, you know, an egregious act by this person."

He pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor on the job.

- Assault.

- I think it's outrageous that he's allowed to stay on.

- The saving grace is it's the old system, which is now gone.

- That's right.

- It's the only one left.

This has been going on six years.

But I agree with you.

Sue?

- It was a two to one, right?

- It was two to one.

- Two to one.

- Two-one, yeah.

- Sue and Dan, nice to see you, always a great time.

Thank you for joining us.

Be sure and check us out on Facebook, X, Instagram, and the Ocean State Media YouTube channel.

And once again, wherever you get your favorite podcast.

We'll see you next time right here on "Lively."

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