From a small farm in northwest Arkansas to the 2024 presidential campaign.

Asa Hutchinson political journey has led him and Arkansas through several eras, serving as one of the early appointees to the Department of Homeland Security, then coming home to be the Arkansas governor for two terms.

Hutchinson has led a life steeped in the political arena.

Join us as we sit down with Governor Hutchinson to learn more about his journey and what his home has meant to him.

On living history.

My dad was a farmer, had 280 acre farm on the creek, cattle and poultry, and we lived three and a half miles out in the country, half a mile down a dirt road.

And I walked to school because I could walk faster than the bus could get me home.

I was the youngest of six children, and people asked me if all of them were in politics.

My brother Tim and I, of course were, and I my response is no.

The others were normal.

My parents were not particularly political.

They voted and they were independent, and sometimes they would cancel out each other's vote.

But they were not consumed with politics by any means.

They're working hard for a living and making ends meet.

Well learned values.

Value of hard work.

Responsibility.

Helping your neighbor whenever they, you know, had a cow that needed some assistance.

And being part of your community and church.

I mean, that's how I grew up.

And those are values that are are lasting and are important in Arkansas.

And then I actually moved to Springdale whenever I was in the eighth grade.

Whenever President Kennedy challenged Americans to get into shape, and he challenged us to make the 50 mile marine walk.

Now I'm just 13, but the president said this is important.

And so me and my brother raised foot, raised from Springdale to grab it and then hitchhiked back when you're 13.

And so that was a different day and time when you had that freedom of movement.

You could, you know, parents let you be challenged and go out and explore.

And from that exploration comes discovery, discovery about your community and the world around, and also discovery about yourself.

I think it's it goes back to your faith.

It goes back to what you learn as values in life, that you're here to make a difference and that you shouldn't be isolated, but you should look for ways to help others and to help freedom and help society.

And politics is a powerful avenue to do all of that.

When you look at what the Hutchinson name has, has brought to Arkansas politics, and then through marriages and in-laws, you've got hindrances and you've got nephews and you've got you've had a lot of that name, has had a lot of influence in our state.

How do you balance that at the Thanksgiving table?

It makes it fun and very, very lively.

And my son Asa, he was asked once, well, what did you think about, you know, your dad campaigning across Arkansas and running for office and talking politics to the table.

And his response was, I thought it was just normal.

And, you know, that's a that's a good answer.

We had a normal life, but it was very, very politically engaged.

What kind of guidance would you give for people who need to be civically involved and educated on the issues, but don't want to bring in some of the contention that seems to follow politics today?

Well, I think the answer is that it's family.

And if there's areas of disagreement, sometimes you stay away from them or you give a lot of grace and, you know, you can't help but disagree from time to time.

But family is more important and the American family is more important.

And I'm talking about the whole body politic that, you know, we can't let our disagreements divide us culturally, permanently and and to create anger.

So, you know, that's easy, easier for us in a family environment because you greatly loved each other.

But you're always going to have those disagreements.

But you have to show a lot of grace.

You have to listen, and you have to recognize there's a, you know, a lot more important even than what happens in little Rock or in Washington, D.C.

this is at my mom and dad's 50th wedding anniversary.

And so you've got our for young children here Sarah, Asa, John, Paul, and Seth.

And of course, I'm very proud of my mom and dad, the role they played, they they campaigned for me and winning elections and losing elections.

I'm glad that mom was alive.

When my brother and I both got elected to the United States Senate simultaneously, the only brother combination elected simultaneously to the Senate.

To the House.

In the history of America, atop this foundation of community service and mutual respect, Hutchinson left home for college.

However, even then, the road to the governor's mansion and the presidential campaign trail wasn't a clear one.

My life was not planned.

I didn't think I'd ever be a candidate for president of the United States, or ever be governor, or even congressman.

It never even entered my mind.

I got an accounting degree in undergraduate, and I had a debate topic that took me to Clemson University Law School, and I started reading cases, and I fell in love with the law.

And so I said, I'm going to go to law school, so forget accounting, I'm going to law school.

Well, I was going to be a country lawyer and small town Bentonville at the time, and I was.

And so politics only developed over time.

And again, it was an outgrowth of saying, I have a real responsibility.

I've got a law degree, I've got an education, I've got good values.

How can I help, you know, our community and our state.

And that led me into politics.

But also there is a lot of pressure, enormous pressure, because particularly if it's a criminal case, a very serious case or a lot of money at stake, you know, the client is there depending upon you to make the case for justice.

And there's nothing like the experience of waiting there while the jury is deliberating and waiting for the jury to come back with a verdict.

And you hear the knock on the door and all of a sudden the bailiff says, the jury has a verdict, and you stand there with your client as the four person of the jury reads the verdict.

That is pressure.

And once you handle that moment in time, you can handle just about anything.

I wanted that exhilaration of of fighting for somebody and, and what was important in their life and seeing the justice system at work.

And those are pressure, precious moments for me.

I like the truth seeking part of it.

I like the persuasive part of it being a good trial lawyer in front of a jury.

Help me in politics and speaking to constituents and speaking on the campaign trail made me more effective in the courtroom.

When I ran for prosecuting attorney in 1978, no Republican won that year.

In fact, I was the only Republican candidate for prosecuting attorney over the statewide.

I wanted to build a competitive two party system in Arkansas.

I had more with the conservative principles of Ronald Reagan than I did otherwise.

And so all of that motivated me to change things and to give Arkansas real competition and to give a more of a voice for a more conservative approach.

You know, it was a Democratic area, even in northwest Arkansas at that time.

But then sometimes losing pays off, commitment pays off.

People get to know you.

And so whenever Ronald Reagan got elected, I was the city coordinator for Ronald Reagan in Bentonville.

And I'm coming out of the courthouse after the election.

And Joe Mixon, an attorney friend of mine, he said, Asa Republicans just want have you ever thought about being the United States Attorney?

And I wasn't even sure what a United States attorney did at that time, but it was a presidential appointment and it made sense.

It was exciting and opportunity.

And so President Reagan appointed me as the youngest U.S.

attorney in the nation at the age of 31.

How intimidating was that to know that you're the youngest attorney in the federal attorney in the country that's appointed by Reagan.

And and then you get thrust into some pretty high profile cases.

At the same time, you have to be a risk taker, and you don't run for the U.S.

Senate against an incumbent unless you're a risk taker.

You know, you don't go after, you know, a sheriff of a county for selling marijuana unless you're a risk taker, because he's pretty popular in the county.

And the same thing with the CSA.

That was not an easy investigation.

There was a lot at risk there, a lot of lives at risk.

And but it was an incredible time of change for Arkansas, for our nation.

We enhanced our fight against illegal drugs with President Reagan's leadership.

I was in the forefront of that.

And all of a sudden, our state gets hit with a terrorist group in northern Arkansas.

High national publicity.

As a young man who was had this task placed upon him, what principles did you rely on as you were going into uncertain talks?

The principle involved was freedom of speech, and I literally disagreed with what the white supremacist group was advocating.

But I also recognized that you don't go after them until if unless they violate the law and commit acts of violence.

And so that was an important principle.

And we made it clear that they're not being prosecuted for their beliefs that I personally consider very abhorrent.

And I think society did.

But they're being prosecuted because they killed people.

So that was one principle.

The second one was that you listen to really smart people around you.

And so we had the hostage rescue team who were skilled negotiators, and I learned a lot from them.

And, you know, I was one vehicle to calm things down and to make decisions.

But I listen to people.

I listen to people a lot wiser, with more experience with me on very difficult things.

And then finally, you do a lot personally.

You know, a lot of U.S.

attorneys would sit back in their office and say, I'll just manage this from here.

I was on the front line.

I was needed there.

And that's been a you know, to me, it goes back to Sam Walton's principles of management.

You manage by wandering around, you know, what is happening in the field.

You know what the challenges are.

You know what the agents are going through, and you're there to support them.

And I follow those principles.

You know, whether I was governor or in Congress or head of the DEA, the agents knew that I'd be out in the field with them.

I went on search warrants being executed in Compton, California.

And so that's been part of my leadership style.

And as you go forward in life, you have more and more confidence in your own decision making, your own values.

And so I want to make sure I'm there and can affect those in the operation.

That's going to determine any impact on a lot of people's lives, including yourself.

And so I do believe in that personal responsibility and engagement.

You know, I found myself four years later being in a position to run for statewide office.

And here again, Senator Bumpers, Senator Dale bumpers, a long time governor, United States senator, impossible to beat, but he was opposing President Reagan on a number of key issues on national defense and others.

And so I said, look, Arkansas deserves a choice, and I'm running.

And so I ran for the United States Senate in 1986.

Incredible opportunity.

And guess what?

I lost Dale Bumpers beat me.

But the highlight was the debate that we had statewide television articulating my values, what I stand for, giving people an alternative.

And here again, even losing that race in 86, which is a terrible year for Republicans, it advanced my opportunities in life and people got to know you better.

One of the things you've been known for is your ability to reach out to all people, on all sides of an issue, cross party lines.

How do you maintain that demeanor that you have, and the ability to continue to reach out to people along different lines?

Well, partly because you love people and love the engagement discussion on ideas, learning from each other.

But then secondly, you know, it is the desire to make your arguments better and to and to engage in a conversation.

When I was in Congress, I was on the Judiciary Committee in the House.

And the ACLU always like to come by and talk to me because I would listen to them and they knew we disagreed.

I was pro-life, they were advocating for pro-choice position, and we had disagreements there.

But, you know, we found a few other areas maybe on tort reform, we could talk about it.

I've always listened to the other side.

And sometimes you find common ground, sometimes you don't find areas of agreement.

But regardless, you learn more about their positions and it makes you a better defender of your position.

The adversary system of justice is that truth will come out whenever you have two different adversaries that are fighting hard for their point of view.

And truth is, is will come out and justice will come out.

But if you you have somebody that's not armed properly, you know, then you could have a lopsided truth or untruth that comes out.

But this is Oxford Union at Oxford University.

I was asked last year to go to Bate.

Of course, the history of debating for over 100 years at Oxford Union.

I wanted to do it and we won the debate 140 to 70.

As they left the chambers, they voted by going out the door or the Nader.

And that's how you found out.

And that's exactly that's how they counted the votes.

Still being an attorney and debate and use those old skills.

That's right.

Whenever I got elected to Congress, my predecessor, John Paul Hammerschmidt, he was a long time serving the third Congressional District.

My brother Tim was served in it for a while, but I visited with John Paul Hammerschmidt, and I asked him, you know, what committees should I get on?

And of course, he's very thoughtful.

And he said, well, Asa, you're a lawyer, you've been a prosecutor.

They're going to try to get you on Judiciary Committee.

Don't do it.

He said.

Nothing ever exciting happens on Judiciary Committee.

Well, sure enough, they put me on Judiciary Committee.

And and of course, that's whenever the Star report hit Congress.

The Whitewater investigations of President Clinton from Arkansas hit Congress, and they wind up in Judiciary Committee.

And it winds up in my lap.

And so it was a difficult time politically.

But it's also something that was critically important, because here again, you're talking about, you know, the legal system.

You're talking about the justice system and obstruction of justice and perjury allegations.

And then I wound up having to be a prosecutor that tried that case in the Senate.

So it was an extraordinary time.

It's the first time we'd gone through that in our country in over 100 years.

And the case actually went to trial in the Senate.

And the longest trial I've had, it lasted about 30 days in the United States Senate.

Well, I saw my duty as following the constitutional order that whenever you believe you have a president that engages in wrongdoing or impeachable offenses, then the remedy is, you know, to pursue impeachment under the Constitution.

But I also believe that, you know, the Senate is going to have a verdict on this, and it was doubtful that they were going to convict, even though we believe we had a good case to present.

And and in the end, whenever the Senate gave a verdict that I was not my position, they actually did not find enough votes to impeach the president of the United States and to convict him.

I felt very strongly about our position, and I presented it very aggressively in the Senate.

But you can do it aggressively, but also professionally and with respect for both sides.

Then I said, just as I always did when a jury came back with a verdict that I accept the verdict of the Senate, our constitutional process worked.

Now we all move on as a country and get back to business.

So after the impeachment trial, I was reelected to Congress and I was in my third term.

President Bush got elected and my name was under consideration for an appointment in, in the Justice Department.

And he called me and asked me to head up the DEA, which I agreed to.

And people asked, why did you leave Congress to go ahead of the day?

I could not see myself in Congress for 18 years.

I just wanted to have a change from that but continue in public service.

And secondly, I wanted to have that executive experience leading a large department and challenge me in that way.

We had 9000 employees at the time, about 5000 agents across the globe.

I went to Colombia in South America.

I went to the cocaine fields there, meeting in Mexico on cartels and with President Fox and and helped dismantle the Arizona Felix Cartel, but also here in the United States, engaging in in drug education and trying to combine law enforcement with treatment for first time offenders.

The challenge is that I got appointed and was sworn in as head of the DEA one month before the nine over 11 attack.

I was actually in New Mexico, Albuquerque, debating Governor Gary Johnson on drug policy, and the next morning the attack occurred.

Department of justice, Attorney general wanted me back to Washington.

So they said a military aircraft for me.

I flew back with no other planes in the sky, landed there.

And of course, the DEA is right across the street from the Pentagon.

And it was that climate that things changed and the Department of Justice changed, and the emphasis changed, and we continued our work and realized, really, the first to make the connection between drug trafficking and proceeds from drug trafficking, supporting terrorism and from Osama bin laden and the Taliban that was supported by drug proceeds out of their heroin production.

They're in Afghanistan to South America, where the cocaine was fueling the FARC and other terrorist organizations there.

And so while we didn't have a direct lead on terrorism, our enforcement of of the drug laws and trying to prohibit those transshipment of drugs to the United States hopefully helped us to defund terrorism.

You had a very unique view and perspective on nine over 11.

What had happened because of your background, because of your position then and then what was to come?

But how did you how were you able to process the horrific event in real time and still carry out the necessary duties of government?

Well, you had to put the priority on protecting America from another terrorist attack.

And I'm called in to the Justice Department by the attorney general on a Sunday afternoon after the nine over 11 attack.

He had all the senior leadership of the Department of Justice there, from the Criminal Division to INS, who was part of justice, then to the Solicitor General, Ted Olson.

All of us were there.

And and Attorney General Ashcroft looked at us and he said, the president of the United States just tapped me, thumped me in the chest, is actually what he said.

And President Bush said, John, do not let this happen to America again.

And he and Attorney General Ashcroft shared with us that information.

He said, I wanted you to know that, and I want you to resign.

If you cannot give 100% to protecting America.

And of course, we all were equally committed at that time.

And that's exactly when we shifted from just simply prosecuting to prevention.

And it was not just a middle shift in priorities, but it was actually a constitutional shift to a certain extent, because then you get into the constitutional issues as to what how far can you go in preventing and how far can you go in surveillance and how far can you go in bringing in people that you might be concerned about?

Well, the Department of Homeland Security was created two years after I was at the DEA, and I was asked to be the undersecretary, which is overseeing immigration, border security and transportation security, all 110,000 employees at that time, agents and personnel reporting through four different departments up to me.

And that's when CBP was created.

Ice as difficult of a mission as they had.

I was the one that created the name Ice submitted it to the president.

He accepted that name, and we had to manage all of that.

And, you know, our focus is different than it is today.

Then we had border security, but we still had the highest priority on making sure terrorists didn't get through.

And we we tried to, you know, protect our borders.

But also it was our TSA reported to me and changing our transportation systems from simply flying people to actually flying people without being used as a weapon or subject to a terrorist attack or apprehension.

So it was a historic time.

And, you know, the DEA had an important mission.

All of a sudden I go over to Homeland Security, and I'm in the Situation Room with the president of the United States.

I am making decisions with Condoleezza Rice and others as how we go after terrorism and what we tell the American people, whether we raise the threat level, what we do operationally.

If you ask Americans, do you believe there's going to be another terrorist attack?

There's actually polls on this.

And two thirds of Americans was totally confident there was going to be another attack.

And then they would ask the same Americans, well, what are what are you doing?

What are you changing?

And they said nothing.

We're trusting law enforcement.

And that's really America.

They know the reality of the risk, but we're not going to compromise our freedom in order to give that victory to the terrorist.

So I love America's approach on that.

We just try to emulate that in our carrying out our duties.

This is day one.

Patriot is whenever you were at the Department of Homeland Security on day one, on my first day there, my operations chief comes to me and he says, Mr.

Secretary, we have a plane that's been hijacked in Cuba.

It is headed toward the airspace.

The United States.

We don't know whether it has hostile intention or not.

What action do you want us to take?

Wow.

Day one.

That's when I look around and say what prepared me for this moment.

That's whenever you learn very quickly to ask people around you what are the protocols?

You make a decision.

But day one patriot, that means something.

That day.

Susan, my wife looked at me after two years at Homeland Security and said, you're getting worn out and we need to go back home to Arkansas.

I didn't resigned to run for governor, but it quickly came up.

And while I was still practicing law, the 2006 race for governor presented itself very quickly.

We still had a very young Republican Party.

At that time, it was still clearly dominated by the Democrat side, and I won the nomination for on the Republican side, I was a nominee for governor, and I lost to Mike Beebe that year.

In 2006, Mike Beebe was a great candidate.

He was a general.

He had led well, people liked him.

Secondly, it was a bad year for Republicans in 2006 and seemed like I had a habit of picking bad years to run.

But also part of it was that I had just spent some really tough years in Washington, D.C., and I think it took me a little while to get back to the Arkansas spirit of of the importance of running for governor, but also the fun side of life.

And so I think I was a more balanced candidate eight years later and a better candidate, more relaxed candidate.

I had lost three statewide races.

I lost the race for United States Senate in 86.

I lost the race for attorney general in 1990, and I lost a race for governor in 2006.

It's rare in American politics that someone can recover from three statewide defeats.

In fact, my opponent in that race during the debate said he's had three statewide losses and he's headed for his fourth.

I felt like I was a good position and and I prayed about it, and I felt like that was something that God wanted me to do.

So I talked to Susan about it and she said, you're really thinking about doing it?

And she tells me that she actually went into the other room and had a little cry and a little talk with the Lord, and said that she couldn't stand for me to lose.

And all of a sudden it came over her that this was what I was supposed to do, and that she had the peace about it.

And she came in and said, I'm all with you.

Let me tell you, there's not many political wives that could do that.

And I just have the greatest respect and appreciation for Susan for even allowing me to run in 2014.

It's a sacrifice for the family.

She's a part of that, and it was just a miraculous race.

We were outraised.

In fact, people need to know that two of my key races for Congress when I got elected and for governor when I got elected, we were outraised and outspent by the opposition.

And then secondly, in 2014, he was still a Democratic state in 2010, four years earlier, it was totally dominated.

All the constitutional officers were Democrat.

The federal officers were all except for one or third district Democrat.

And between 2010 and 2014 it changed.

And in 2014, when I got elected, it was the first time in history, modern history that we had a Republican governor.

All state constitutional officers were Republican and a Republican legislature.

And it was then the time to make a difference to the people of the state and show that we could govern election night.

You always want the, you know, like they show in the movies you're watching.

The election returns come in gradually.

You're nervous.

You know what?

This counties do it and that county is doing.

And in 2006, I was informed very early that I had lost.

They had called it and it takes away the drama.

And so on 2014, when I won, the polls, closed at 730 at seven 30.5.

And 30s later, I get a call from an unknown number on my cell phone and I went ahead and took the phone call.

And as President Obama, President Obama says, Asa, congratulations on being elected governor of Arkansas.

And so it was a Democrat president that informed me at 731 that I was elected, and I didn't know it at that time.

And I said, Mr.

President, you have they called my race.

And so there's there's no drama through the night.

You know, I knew it at that moment.

But governing is not about which political party is in the majority.

Governing is about setting aside differences and searching for common ground.

And as we search for the common ground, we realize that our differences are smaller than we thought and our hearts are larger than we imagined.

People were looking to Republican leadership as to one, can you really governance?

And then and secondly, what changes are you going to make?

One of them is on tax cuts.

And, you know, we had a Department of Finance that for, you know, all of their existence since income taxes came into existence, they had never cut the income tax for 100 years.

They would forecast the revenue and they would spend every dime of it put in a hiring freeze.

We reduced state government employment by 3000 workers, which is 14%.

These are all the changes that I tried to bring in.

We did bring in with the support of the legislature, and all of a sudden we started growing our economy quickly.

We lowering taxes and, and, and we're bringing capital back to this state.

So everybody was worried about education that we're going to have to, you know, cut services and education.

We're not going to be able to fund essential services of state government.

But we gradually did it, and we put efficiencies along the way.

And all of a sudden surpluses started growing as tax cuts went down and we created more jobs.

And the legislature knew that we had to do it slowly, methodically, but also with confidence.

And we lowered it from 7% when I was elected, down to 4.9% when I left.

And so for six years, Governor Hutchinson worked to reward the faith the people of Arkansas had placed on his administration.

But in March of 2020, Arkansas and every other government around the world faced a crisis.

No one could have prepared for.

I've talked earlier today with Doctor Smith, and the Department of Health have confirmed Arkansas's first presumptive case of the coronavirus in Arkansas, the Department of Health has dispatched a team to the hospital where the patient is in isolation, but the Department of Health team will be taking the proper precautions there as the patient is in isolation.

But this is again our first case in Arkansas.

It was the most challenging crisis management experience I've had.

And so the first thing I did actually was studied what happened in the Spanish flu and how we respond and what we learned from that.

And it was helpful, but it was a new world.

We didn't know anything about Covid.

No one wanted to go to school.

Parents were afraid.

Students are afraid.

Teachers are afraid.

And so that spring of 2020, the schools sort of closed because there was no other option.

And then we quickly realized this is a bad idea.

We got to get back to school, and we did the following fall.

And then there was the pressure of shutting everything down.

And people think of Republicans keeping things open.

But I'll never forget President Trump pushing governors to close things down.

And and some of us refuse to do so.

So it was a very difficult time.

But what was important, I think, in my leadership was, first of all, communicating to Arkansans, as you know, every day I held a news conference and I didn't intend to do it for 200 news conferences or 200 days.

But it started letting them know what's happening and what we're learning and sharing that information with them.

And people just were glued to those daily briefings during the pandemic.

And that level of communication built trust and confidence and reduced fear rather than relying upon mandates.

We tried to lead by example.

And so when it came to vaccines, my wife and I took the Covid vaccine in front of everybody saying, we believe this is right and important.

And it was it a mandate.

But we knew it was important.

And then we had enormous pressure from the national news media, from all of the medical community saying, you got to shut everything down.

And most of the states entered executive orders to shelter in place.

And if you didn't have an essential job, you had to stay in your home and you couldn't go out of your home.

And we refused to do it.

I said, no, it doesn't make sense.

It's not government's job to say you're an essential business.

And this this business is not essential.

So you can provide for your family, but you can't.

And I had to go on the national media and explain why we're not doing it, because not everybody sheltering in place.

And so you're not stopping the spread in that way.

If you've got a business that provides for a family, you're essential, in my judgment.

And so we kept it moving in that way on the schools.

We everybody shut down that spring of 2020.

It slowed down our agenda on other things, which as a governor is frustrating.

I think about our reading initiative for two years.

We really set back on that.

Some of our educational achievements were slowed down because of of Covid for two years, on and on.

You could describe that, but that's what you deal with in positions of leadership.

I didn't expect that when I ran for governor or got elected, but it was there.

I always remember one volleyball player, a female volleyball player in high school, and wrote and said, don't shut down our schools this year.

I'm a senior, and if you don't have school, we're not going to have sports.

And if we don't have sports, I have no chance for a scholarship.

And that just touched me.

And of course, we realized that it was the social engagement and the isolation.

When you didn't have school that had an increase in all kinds of bad outcomes, health outcomes, mental mental depression, some child abuse and neglect.

And so we needed our schools to be in operation.

And we did that that fall when most of the country still shut down.

What were some of the principles that helped guide you through that uncertain time?

Always tell the truth because the public can handle the truth, even if it's bad news.

And I had to go in there day after day and talking about the number of lost lives and cases that we have at hospital shortages.

But you tell them the truth.

You share the information, they can handle it.

Secondly, you don't want to destroy trust.

You always want to keep trust.

And part of that is you never make a requirement more than your culture, or your people, or your or the love of freedom can handle.

And so, you know, some states, blue states, you know, they were heavy handed because, you know, their public could support that.

But you've got to balance science with your culture.

And in Arkansas, you know, we have a rural culture.

We have a freedom loving culture.

And and we don't like the mandates it.

And so there's just you've got to balance what the scientific community is telling you and your health community with reality.

And that's balance is what we try to maintain with the legislature as we went through it.

But the governor gets the heat, and those are tough calls.

To paraphrase what former President Ronald Reagan said as he left office, we have made a difference.

We worked together and we made Arkansas stronger, freer and with hope for the future.

All in all, not bad.

Not bad at all.

You have expressed an interest in the presidency, so everyone assumes that you're running until you declare that you are not running.

So what is the path forward that you see?

You know, in terms of 2024?

That's one of the biggest leaps than anybody can can make.

I have been pleased with response, but it's not only practical politics and impacts on family, but it's also involves a lot of money that you have to raise.

And and so we've got to make some tough decisions that will come up in January or beyond.

But we're we're looking at and we'll see where it leads.

Eight years as governor.

What was it like walking out of the governor's mansion for the last time?

Well, you know, eight years is a good length of time, and I was happy with that.

But I was ready for new challenges in life and seeing what opportunities were ahead.

You saw an opportunity to raise your hand and run for president of the United States.

What was that conversation like with Susan?

You.

Susan, you know, felt comfortable with my leadership, and I think she certainly understood how big a challenge it was.

Also.

No one really understands the depth of the challenge until you jump in there.

There's no race like it.

She always just said, if you're doing what God wants you to do, then I'm I'm right with you.

But then I also believe that we needed to have an option.

And it's you know, I've said that after January 6th, Donald Trump should not be our candidate for president again.

And I'm talking about the attack on the Capitol and what I believe was his moral responsibility.

And also I had policy disagreements with him.

So once again, you know, it's a Dale bumpers type race.

You know, I knew there was probably a minimal chance.

But, you know, as Chris Christie told me once, that running for president, I can't tell you I'm going to win, but I've got just as good as chance as anybody else out there.

Everything from my announcement on the courthouse steps in Bentonville, where I announced for the United States Senate 40 years previous to that, to the debate in Milwaukee, where I was on the debate stage debating for the presidency of the United States to being in New Hampshire and at Exeter Town Hall, where I was on the same stage that Abraham Lincoln stood on in 1866.

Those moments are priceless.

And and I learned one thing that the people of America, no matter how divided we are, people of America, care about America and our future.

My life is defined by my love of the rule of law and ordered liberty.

And I think people, whenever they look at my life, whether it's in public service or as a practicing lawyer, I think they will see that that is the biggest pattern.

I like the motto of Arkansas that the people rule and they do, but they rule under a system of law that we agree upon.

So the role of the legislature and the tension between the executive branch of the legislative branch is real, but it's healthy and it's necessary.

And all of that's a part of our water liberty.

And and it's not to be taken for granted.

And every generation must be able to support the rule of law, ordered liberty, because otherwise our democracy is just not going to work.

Let your dreams grow because we all are somewhat limited in our exposure and what we see and the opportunities that are in front of us.

And so our dreams are limited.

And as life goes on, those dreams grow.

Life is not always planned, but it unfolds in very mysterious and exciting ways.

So let your life unfold and the preparation is important.

The values are important.

Once you get those set, let those opportunities unfold and pursue them.

You have opportunity to make a difference in people's lives and and impact history and be a part of history.

And you have to put up with a lot.

Sometimes you think, but it's minimal compared to what you can do.

And, you know, you got to have a thick skin.

You got to be tough.

What troubles you the most is the impact on the family.

And it's hard.

They have a lot more scrutiny that they never asked for.

And and we have a what appears to me to be a very coarse society today that does not show respect or civility to the extent that we need in society today.

So I hope we can improve and and set an environment that does attract people into public service, that that allows that young boy on the creek and grab it to see his dreams and not be discouraged from pursuing us.

It's thinking about the best of America, and it is it's individual responsibility.

What are you doing to bring out the best of America and not appeal to our worst instincts?

And I said that as a candidate for governor, but it applies to every individual in our communication, in our in our voting, in our daily conversations.

You know, how could we appeal to the best of America and bring out those best qualities that are important to us?

You've got to set your principles.

And I always try to define it that, you know, you can set a contrast out there, what you believe, what they believe.

Try to not go after somebody's character or go after you know their values or go after them personally.

There might be an opportunity for grace or mercy in there and balance as you make your decision.

And so it's all about the voters, what they respond to, and I hope that they can think it through more and expect more from their candidates.

Well, this really reflects what campaigning means for families.

And so in 2006, my granddaughter Ella Beth campaigned for me.

You can see her holding the sign on election day as they go to vote.

And how old is she?

Right there.

Well, she's probably about five there because eight years later, this is Ella Bath, and she's in my campaign commercials where I was promoting computer coding in every high school.

It means a lot to me showing the highs and lows of campaigning, but the consistency of family.

Yeah.

Then you think about all the titles that you've had over the years.

Papa has to be among the top.

Oh, no doubt about it.

I've been blessed in life, continue to be blessed and I just wish everybody had the same type of opportunities.

And they were hard fought.

I mean, the ups and downs of life.

But wow, the excitement of it.

And I didn't want to lead a boring life.

I like the excitement of it.

And and as you get older in life, then you start measuring things, not necessarily by their excitement, but does this help people?

Does this make a difference?

Is this have eternal value?

And so, you know, you try to measure things in your investment of time.

More crucially in terms of, of its value.

And, and so your perspective changes a little bit.

But every step of the way, I'm grateful for the journey we've been on.