Laura: I'M LAURA PASKUS.

ON THIS MONTH'S "OUR LAND," WE TALK ABOUT THE CREATURES WE INHABIT OUR CITIES WITH.

I SPOKE WITH UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO GRADUATE STUDENT ZOE ROSSMAN.

SHE'S AN URBAN WILDLIFE ECOLOGIST AND SHE SHARES SOME OF HER RESEARCH.

WE TALK ABOUT WHO IS LIVING HERE AND WHY THEY MATTER.

AND WE'RE REALLY HAPPY THAT IN THIS SHOW, WE FEATURE VIDEO AND IMAGES FROM AROUND NEW MEXICO SHARED BY OUR FRIENDS AND VIEWERS.

Laura: WELCOME, ZOE.

YOU'RE A GRADUATE STUDENT IN THE BIOLOGY DEPARTMENT AT UNM?

Zoe: YES, I AM.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

Laura: THANKS FOR JOINING ME.

SO YOU STUDY CARNIVORES, OR URBAN WILDLIFE.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT YOUR RESEARCH IS ABOUT.

Zoe: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

SO I'M AN URBAN WILDLIFE ECOLOGIST.

A LOT OF MY PREVIOUS WORK WAS ACTUALLY UP IN CHICAGO, BUT LATELY I'VE MOVED BACK TO FOCUS ON ALBUQUERQUE.

BASICALLY, MY RESEARCH IS ABOUT HOW AND WHY THE URBAN MAMMALS THAT WE SEE IN OUR CITY ARE EXISTING HERE AND DOING SO WELL HERE.

AND WE KNOW THAT THERE'S A LOT OF URBAN WILDLIFE ALL ACROSS THE CITY, WHICH I'M SURE WE'LL GET INTO, BUT WE DON'T REALLY HAVE MANY ANSWERS ABOUT WHERE THOSE ANIMALS ARE ACTUALLY OCCURRING OR WHY THEY ARE WHERE THEY ARE.

Laura: AS HUMANS, I FEEL LIKE WE OFTEN THINK OF OURSELVES AS SEPARATE FROM NATURE.

LIKE, I LIVE HERE, YOU ANIMALS LIVE OVER THERE.

BUT IN ALBUQUERQUE, WHICH IS CRAZY, BECAUSE WE'RE THE LARGEST CITY IN NEW MEXICO, THERE IS WILDLIFE ALL OVER THE PLACE.

LIKE FOR INSTANCE, I WAS SUPER SURPRISED TO HEAR THAT THERE ARE FOXES IN NOB HILL.

Zoe: OH, YEAH.

Laura: CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHAT'S OUT THERE AND WHAT YOU HEAR FROM PEOPLE IS OUT THERE?

Zoe: YES, OF COURSE.

AND FIRST, I THINK THAT'S AN EXCELLENT POINT, BECAUSE THE IDEA THAT CITIES ARE SEPARATE FROM NATURE AND THAT ONLY ANIMALS THAT WE'VE BROUGHT IN OR CULTIVATED ARE ALLOWED TO BE HERE OR SHOULD BE HERE IS JUST SO BIZARRE, BECAUSE THERE'S BEEN URBAN WILDLIFE FOR AS LONG AS THERE'S BEEN URBAN, YOU KNOW, FOR AS LONG AS THERE HAVE BEEN CITIES.

AND WE HAD URBAN ANIMALS IN AZTEC CITIES AND IN CHACO CANYON LIKE A THOUSAND YEARS AGO, RIGHT, AND SO THIS IS NOT NEW BY ANY MEANS TO THIS AREA.

BUT AS FAR AS WHAT'S HERE, YEAH, THERE'S FOXES IN NOB HILL.

I KNOW YOU MENTIONED THAT TO ME.

I HAD A FRIEND A FEW MONTHS BACK WHO SAW ONE IN NOB HILL, ALSO.

I RAN INTO A WOMAN WHOSE FRIEND HAD A FAMILY OF GRAY FOXES ON THEIR RING CAMERA ON LIKE EUBANK AND JUAN TABO.

DEFINITELY FOXES.

COYOTES.

RACCOONS AND SKUNKS, WHICH YOU MIGHT EXPECT.

YOU HEAR ABOUT THOSE KIND OF ANIMALS IN CITIES A LOT.

IN THE BOSQUE, WE'VE GOT PORCUPINES AND BEAVERS AND MUSKRAT AND ALL SORTS OF OTHER LITTLE CRITTERS.

LET'S SEE.

MOUNTAIN LIONS AND BEARS OCCASIONALLY WILL COME INTO THE CITY, ALTHOUGH THEY PROBABLY -- WELL, THEY OBVIOUSLY DON'T LIVE HERE ALL THE TIME.

THERE'S NOT REALLY ENOUGH HABITAT TO SUPPORT THEM.

AND YOU DO OCCASIONALLY GET LIKE THE RARE ANIMALS, LIKE A RINGTAIL BEING SIGHTED.

BOBCATS ARE PRETTY COMMON.

SO WE'VE GOT THE WHOLE SPECTRUM.

I KNOW THAT YOU'RE ONE OF THE LUCKY FEW PEOPLE WHO HAVE SEEN JAVELINA IN ALBUQUERQUE, WHICH IS REALLY EXCITING, BECAUSE THEIR RANGE IS MOVING NORTH.

I MEAN, I'VE ONLY EVER SEEN THEM SOUTH OF ALBUQUERQUE.

BUT LATELY, I THINK THERE HAVE BEEN THREE OR FOUR SIGHTINGS IN TOWN, WHICH WILL BE REALLY INTERESTING TO SEE IF THAT CONTINUES AND HOW THAT IMPACTS THINGS.

BUT WE HAVE THE WHOLE SPECTRUM.

AND I'M A MAMMALOGIST, SO OF COURSE I'M LIKE FOCUSING ON THESE MEDIUM TO LARGE-SIZED URBAN MAMMALS, BUT OF COURSE WE'VE GOT TONS OF BIRDS AND REPTILES AND AMPHIBIANS AND INSECTS ALL THROUGHOUT THE CITY, TOO.

Laura: SO WHAT IS THEIR PRESENCE?

LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE FOXES OR COYOTES OR BOBCATS, WHAT DOES THEIR PRESENCE IN THE CITY SAY ABOUT US AND MAYBE WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THEM?

Zoe: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

SO, YES, NOT ALL ANIMALS DO WELL IN CITIES, AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF ANIMALS THAT HAVE BEEN HARMED BY URBANIZATION, PARTICULARLY LARGE CARNIVORES, SPECIES LIKE WOLVES AND BEARS AND MOUNTAIN LIONS, EVEN, ALTHOUGH WE DO HAVE -- THERE ARE MOUNTAIN LIONS LIVING RIGHT IN THE L.A.

SUBURBS.

BUT THERE ARE PLENTY OF SPECIES THAT COULD NEVER LIVE FULL-TIME IN A CITY, AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHAT DRAWS ME SO MUCH TO THE ANIMALS WHO CAN, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY COOL THAT THERE ARE FUNCTIONING ANIMAL COMMUNITIES ALL AROUND US.

SO AS TO WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT THEM, THERE ARE CHARACTERISTICS THAT MAKE CERTAIN URBAN ANIMALS SUCCESSFUL.

SO FOR MAMMALS, IT'S THINGS LIKE HAVING A REALLY GENERAL DIET.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE A COYOTE -- IF YOU'RE A WOLF, YOU HAVE TO EAT MEAT, RIGHT.

YOU CAN'T GO AROUND JUST EATING WHATEVER YOU WANT.

IF YOU'RE A COYOTE, YOU CAN EAT -- SURE, YOU CAN EAT RODENTS, BUT YOU CAN ALSO EAT BERRIES, OR CAT FOOD, OR PEOPLE'S TRASH.

I MEAN, RIGHT NOW ALL THE COYOTE SCAT I SEE IS JUST FULL OF PRICKLY PEAR FRUIT.

JUST LIKE CHOCK FULL OF PRICKLY PEAR.

SO THERE ARE THINGS LIKE BEING FLEXIBLE, BEING ABLE TO SHIFT YOUR ACTIVITY PATTERNS.

SO COYOTES, IF YOU GO DOWN TO BOSQUE DEL APACHE OR UP TO VALLES CALDERA, YOU CAN SEE COYOTES OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, AND THAT DOESN'T REALLY HAPPEN IN CITIES.

AND SO THERE ARE SORT OF DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS THAT MAKE THESE URBAN MAMMALS SUCCESSFUL.

IN TERMS OF WHAT IT SAYS ABOUT US, IT'S HARD TO SAY, BECAUSE YOU FIND URBAN MAMMALS IN CITIES ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

THEY'RE IN THE BIGGEST METROPOLITAN AREAS IN THE U.S., AND DOWN TO SMALLER CITIES.

OBVIOUSLY I THINK IT'S REALLY COOL THAT WE HAVE THESE URBAN MAMMALS HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE, BUT IT'S NOT A SURPRISE, BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN HERE FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GO ANYWHERE.

SO I THINK THE KEY IS REALLY SORT OF LEARNING ABOUT THEM, BECAUSE NOT ALL PEOPLE KNOW, YOU KNOW.

IT'S REALLY, REALLY COMMON NOT TO KNOW THAT WE HAVE COYOTES OR FOXES IN NOB HILL, BECAUSE YOU DON'T SEE THEM, AND THAT'S LARGELY BECAUSE THEY DON'T REALLY WANT TOO MUCH TO DO WITH US MOST OF THE TIME, WHICH IS A GOOD THING, PROBABLY, FOR US AND FOR THEM.

BUT I THINK IT'S COOL THAT WE DO HAVE THEM.

Laura: ONE OF THE THINGS, LIKE, IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD IS I SEE COYOTES, AND MY DOG GOT SPRAYED BY A SKUNK IN THE BACKYARD, SO CLEARLY WE HAVE SKUNKS.

I'VE SEEN RACCOONS LIKE PEEKING OUT OF THE DRAINAGE GUTTERS ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD.

AND I'M ALWAYS -- LIKE, I ALWAYS WANT TO FIND THEM.

LIKE, WHERE DO THEY SLEEP?

LIKE, WHERE DO THEY MAKE THEIR HOMES?

Zoe: YES, SO IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE ANIMAL.

IF YOU TAKE A PORCUPINE, FOR INSTANCE, WHICH I CAN SEE -- YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE PRETTY COMMONLY IF YOU'RE WALKING IN THE BOSQUE AND LOOKING UP, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT THE COTTONWOODS ARE STARTING TO LOSE THEIR LEAVES.

BUT AN ANIMAL LIKE A PORCUPINE, IT NEEDS THAT HABITAT, RIGHT.

THEY SLEEP IN THE COTTONWOODS DURING THE DAY, AND THEY EAT THE VEGETATION THAT'S IN THE BOSQUE AT NIGHT.

BUT IT MIGHT NOT DO SO WELL IF YOU DROPPED IT IN THE MIDDLE OF NOB HILL.

WHEREAS AN ANIMAL LIKE A COYOTE OR A FOX OR A SKUNK OR A RACCOON, THEY CAN OFTEN EITHER EXIST ENTIRELY IN SMALLER AREAS OF HABITAT OR SORT OF PIECE THAT HABITAT TOGETHER, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH, YOU KNOW, DRAINAGE DITCHES OR LITTLE PIECES OF UNDEVELOPED LOTS OR, YOU KNOW, PARKS, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THEY KIND OF FIND THEIR NOOKS AND CRANNIES DURING THE DAYTIME, MOSTLY.

AND THEN AT NIGHT, YOU CAN BE DRIVING IN NOB HILL AND SEE A COUPLE OF COYOTES PLAYING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STREET, AND THEY'RE LIKE, WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?

SO IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE ANIMAL, FOR SURE.

Laura: ARE THERE THINGS THAT CITIES CAN DO TO MAKE MORE HABITAT FOR PARTICULAR WILDLIFE, OR TO REDUCE CONFLICTS BETWEEN HUMANS AND WILDLIFE, WHETHER THAT'S KEEPING YOUR CHICKEN COOP MORE FORTIFIED OR REDUCING THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR DRIVERS TO HIT WILDLIFE?

Zoe: YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

SO I THINK AT THE CITY LEVEL, THERE'S A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT'S SORT OF THIS NEW FIELD OF WILDLIFE INCLUSIVE DESIGN.

SO AS CITIES ARE GROWING AND EXPANDING, OR MAYBE BEING REDESIGNED TO MITIGATE CLIMATE CHANGE THREATS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, HOW CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE FACTORING WILDLIFE AND THEIR NEEDS INTO OUR DESIGN.

BUT A BIG PART OF THAT IS UNDERSTANDING WHAT THEY NEED.

AND SOME OF IT -- YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT THINK, WELL, ADDING GREEN SPACES, THINGS LIKE THAT.

WELL, WHAT KIND OF GREEN SPACES, RIGHT, AND WHAT PLANTS SHOULD BE THERE, AND SHOULD THEY BE NATIVE PLANTS OR NONNATIVE PLANTS.

AND FOR LARGER MAMMALS, THERE'S STILL A LOT THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT WHAT MAKES THEM SUCCESSFUL IN CITIES.

AND THAT'S LUCKY FOR ME, BECAUSE THAT'S SORT OF WHAT I'M USING MY RESEARCH TO TRY TO FIND OUT.

BUT I THINK, YEAH, AT THE CITY LEVEL, TRYING TO INCORPORATE WILDLIFE NEEDS INTO FUTURE DESIGN IS A BIG THING.

EDUCATING THE COMMUNITY, I KNOW THAT -- I THINK OUR CITY DOES A GREAT JOB OF THAT.

IF YOU GO ON THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH'S WILDLIFE PAGE, THEY HAVE ALMOST EVERY SPECIES THAT YOU CAN FIND IN ALBUQUERQUE, AND WHAT TO DO AND WHAT'S NORMAL AND WHEN TO BE CONCERNED, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO I THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY FANTASTIC AT A CITY LEVEL.

AS FAR AS THE INDIVIDUAL LEVEL, DEFINITELY THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAKING SURE THAT YOUR PETS ARE SUPERVISED, MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE NOT -- THE BIG ONE IS NOT FEEDING ANIMALS.

AND THAT'S SUCH A TOUGH ONE, BECAUSE NOBODY -- I MEAN, AT LEAST I HOPE THAT NOBODY IS FEEDING A COYOTE BECAUSE THEY'RE LIKE, OH, I HATE COYOTES SO MUCH, SO I'M GOING TO GO OUT OF MY WAY TO FEED THEM, RIGHT.

AND I THINK A BIG PART OF THAT COMES FROM THIS IDEA THAT CITIES AND NATURE MIGHT BE SEPARATE AND THAT WILDLIFE DON'T BELONG HERE.

SO IF I SEE A COYOTE, IT MUST NEED HELP.

LIKE I BETTER FEED IT, BECAUSE I LIKE COYOTES, I WANT THEM TO BE HERE, I SHOULD FEED THEM.

AND IN REALITY, IT DOES A LOT MORE HARM THAN GOOD, BECAUSE THESE ANIMALS ARE TOTALLY FINE WITHOUT OUR INTERVENTION.

THEY'RE GOING TO FIND ENOUGH, NO PROBLEM.

BUT WHAT FEEDING DOES IS, IT HABITUATES THOSE ANIMALS TO US IN A NEGATIVE WAY.

SO ALTHOUGH THINGS LIKE ANIMAL ATTACKS, WILD ANIMAL ATTACKS ON HUMANS ARE REALLY, REALLY RARE, ALMOST 100 PERCENT OF THE TIME THEY'RE DUE TO HUMANS FEEDING WILD ANIMALS.

Laura: SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT A CITY OF THE FUTURE, LIKE ALBUQUERQUE OF THE FUTURE, ARE THERE, LIKE, BEARS WALKING THROUGH TOWN?

WHAT'S A GOOD WILDLIFE FUTURE FOR OUR CITY?

Zoe: I THINK A GOOD WILDLIFE FUTURE IN ALBUQUERQUE LOOKS A LOT LIKE THE WILDLIFE WE HAVE HERE RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE REALLY FASCINATING THINGS ABOUT URBAN ECOLOGY TO ME -- AND I'M ABSOLUTELY ON BOARD WITH PRESERVING NATURAL HABITAT AND TRYING TO MAINTAIN THE SPECIES THAT WE HAVE, ONES THAT ARE THREATENED OR ENDANGERED.

BUT I THINK THE REALLY COOL THING ABOUT URBAN ECOLOGY IS, YOU GET TO LET SOME OF THAT GO AND YOU GET TO FOCUS ON, LIKE, WE'VE TAKEN A PIECE OF LAND, THE LAND THAT ALBUQUERQUE SITS ON, AND MODIFIED IT BEYOND RECOGNITION, AND THERE ARE STILL ANIMALS THAT MOVED IN AND SAID, YEAH, HEY, THIS IS COOL, THIS IS HOME, I'M GOING TO START MY FAMILY HERE.

AND I THINK THAT'S AMAZING.

AND SO I THINK URBAN WILDLIFE COMMUNITIES, OR MAMMAL COMMUNITIES ARE SO INTERESTING AND DYNAMIC, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, AS LONG AS THERE ARE CITIES, THERE WILL BE URBAN WILDLIFE, AND THERE ARE DEFINITELY THINGS THAT WE CAN DO AT MULTIPLE LEVELS TO ENCOURAGE THAT.

BUT THE COYOTES THAT I SEE IN ALBUQUERQUE LOOK PRETTY HEALTHY.

THE PORCUPINES THAT I'VE SEEN IN ALBUQUERQUE LOOK PRETTY HEALTHY.

PEOPLE'S PHOTOS OF FOXES AND BOBCATS AND RACCOONS AND SKUNKS, THE ANIMALS THAT WE HAVE HERE ARE REALLY SPECIAL, AND I THINK THAT IF WE CAN -- YOU KNOW, AS WE MOVE FORWARD INTO THE FUTURE, YOU KNOW, IT'LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW MUCH OF THAT IS MAINTAINED AND HOW MUCH OF THAT CHANGES.

BUT THE ANIMALS THAT END UP IN CITIES ARE FLEXIBLE AND RESILIENT, AND SO I THINK THOSE COMMUNITIES ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE JUST REALLY FASCINATING.

Laura: AWESOME.

THANK YOU SO MUCH, ZOE.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

Zoe: YES, OF COURSE.

THANK YOU.