- Hi, I am Hermene Hartman with N'digo Studio.

Today we've got a very special conversation.

It's exclusive.

We're going to be talking about the rich living legacy of the Reverend Jesse Jackson.

Bill Keys, he's the producer, he's with us and we're going to be talking to Yusef Jackson, the youngest son of Reverend Jackson and he is the executive producer of a documentary.

Reverend Jackson's career actually began as a student.

He was trying to check out a book from the library, and because of segregation, he wasn't allowed to check out that book.

He came to Chicago Theological Seminary to study the ministry.

Dr.

Martin Luther King recruited him to join him in Selma and the rest, well, it did become history.

Reverend Jackson became the executive director of Operation Breadbasket.

That was the economic arm of the Southern Christian Leadership and then that turned into The People United To Serve Humanity and then after two historic presidential runs in '84 and '88, it became Rainbow Push.

- I think this country is deeply indebted to Reverend Jackson for what he did.

His audacity to say, "you know, yeah, I'm Black.

I came from a poor family in South Carolina and I'm running for President of the United States."

If you run a campaign, a successful campaign, you get millions of votes, you don't have any money, that's a huge accomplishment, but if you are able to do something unique, bring Blacks and whites and Latinos and young people and their enthusiasm together in a campaign, that is unprecedented.

- What time is it?

- [Audience] Nation time.

- When we come together, what time is it?

- [Audience] Nation time.

- When we respect each other, what time is it?

- [Audience] Nation time.

- So today we're gonna talk about that documentary, how it came about, and what they did and who they interviewed, but most of all what they learned about leadership.

Thank you for being with us and welcome.

"Music Playing" N'digo Studio, N'digo Studio Funding for this program has been provided by Illinois student assistance Commission Community Trust CineCity Studios Lamborghini Chicago Gold Coast and Downers Grove Commonwealth Edison and Broadway Chicago N'digo Studio - Yusef Jackson, hi there.

- It's an honor to be with you.

- [Hermene] Welcome.

- It's good to see you.

- I'm glad you're in my living room.

- You know, I'm a little nervous because you know, you knew my parents before I knew my parents.

- Is that right?

- And you... (laughs) I hate to tell everybody that.

- Is that really right?

- That story.

You met them when they came here and did lots of work with them.

It's beautiful because that God has blessed you with longevity and with vision to be able to tell another story through another generation.

So I thank you for allowing us to be here and I'm also honored to be with my friend Bill Keith.

Bill and I met when I was 13 years old in Washington DC, We were in school together, in high school, and then we went to the University of Virginia together and there was something we did to get ourselves all warmed up when we played football.

Bodini, what we going to do?

- Float like a butterfly and sting like a bead.

Ah.

- Ah.

- Rumble, young man rumble.

Ah.

- Ah.

- Can I ask you a question?

- Yes, of course you can.

- How did this documentary come about?

(Yusef laughs) - The documentary came about because it's a story that Reverend Jackson lived.

He's one of the most influential figures in our lifetime, in history, in American history, in world history, especially at a time of independence movements and freedom movements.

A hundred years after the Emancipation Proclamation, you have Reverend Jesse Jackson on the scene working with Dr.

King and the movements of Black Americans from slavery to freedom, from Jim Crow to equal access inspired movements around the world.

So the freedom movement of African American people at one level inspired freedom movements of all people all around the world and there was some play because obviously Dr.

King was inspired by Gandhi and so his trips to India, actually- - Continuum of generations - Was a continued generation, so we had him there.

- Mandela.

- So it was a story that had to be told, because he's among the central figures in that movement and so the honor has been, has not just been mine, but it's been my mothers and my brothers and sisters.

It's been a family of us and a lot of people who helped support the movement that my father was honored to lead and so to try to tell that story, 60 years of his work has been an honor, it's been an emotional journey, It's been a longer one than we thought it was gonna be.

We thought we'd get there in 18 months.

It's been three years and we're almost finished now.

- So you know what I call these kinds of stories?

We talk about Dr.

King, we talked about Reverend Jackson, we talk about Rosa Parks, we talk about... These are not Black stories, these are Americana stories, because America changed.

America changed in a big way.

And these became models, for others as you just as you just pointed out.

Around the world.

- As my father would say, one of us can't be free until all of us are free.

- That's right.

- So when Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation and when the Civil War ended, all of America became free.

- That's right.

- And my father would say that you couldn't have the Atlanta Olympics behind the cotton curtain.

- That's right.

- You couldn't have the development that we've had post-Industrial revolution in a slave country, half slave, half free.

So the work we've done has really been to open up equal protection under the laws to give meaning to, to give meaning to our constitution.

You know, the Constitution was first written, the Declaration of Independence and all stuff, when those documents were first written, beautiful documents, they only had application to a small part of America and Reverend Jackson and through these movements, opened up the application of those principles to all of Americans and gave an example to the world for freedom and liberty.

- As the Four Fathers where also Slave owners... All of them.

- All of them.

- What was the task What was the most encouraging thing?

What was the most difficult thing?

What was the thing in telling this story of Reverend Jackson?

- The most difficult thing was how deep and how wide and how layered the story is.

As Yusef said, he's worked for so long and accomplished so much.

How can you get that into, in this case, what we're making is a single documentary film, that is really difficult.

So what we've set out to do is capture the man, Ah, everyone will not be satisfied with the parts of the story that are included or excluded we believe we've done justice to Reverend Jackson and to Jacqueline Jackson.

- And we did a really good job, in my opinion, on describing the impact he's had on American life and world life.

So it's absolutely a worldwide story.

The wonderful thing about Rev.

Jesse Jackson He always said, you know your not going to put my six foot three frame in a five foot box.

And so he's always expanded, expanded the opportunity I think the beautiful thing about his story is, it can be your story too.

I mean, this is a man who was born, abject and poor, Ah...adopted, raised primarily by his grandmother, Jesse Jackson is his third name.

He was born Jesse Burns, and then he wanted to be Jesse Robinson and then his mother married Charles Jackson.

So he essentially adopted the name himself, Jesse Jackson.

So Jesse Jackson is his third and adopted name.

So there's so many kids today, so many African American, so many Black kids, and so many poor white kids who've had these kinds of stories raised by their grandmother, because their mother was less available to them than their grandmother was and he's made it, so he can make it, you can absolutely make it, cause he made it from a Jim Crow South, raised by his grandmother, but he wouldn't let things hold him back.

- [Hermene] So it's an inspirational story, it's an aspirational story, it's a true story.

- What did you learn about leadership as you did the story of Reverend Jackson?

The story is really about leadership also in various phases from community organizing to presidential run that change the rules of the Democratic Party.

So there have been elements of leadership, as leadership has evolved and grown.

What you learn about leadership?

- I would say the first thing before the Jesse Jackson everyone knows, who was famous is how a man from the circumstances that Yusef described, could have such faith and strength in self to propel him out of his circumstances.

So we tried to find out the origins of that.

So we tried to find out the origins of that.

We believe it's in the documentary, - The Good of our nation is at stake.

Its commitment to working men and women, to the poor and the vulnerable, to the many in the world, with so many guided missiles and so much misguided leadership, the stakes are exceedingly high.

- He is owed a tremendous amount of acknowledgement of how we all have benefited.

Till this day, he's still a very dear friend.

My mother died, I don't know how he got the word, but he showed up at my mother's funeral.

That's really who Jesse is.

All the other things that people say about him, they don't really understand that he's a decent human being.

- For everyone to see that story and again, to take from that and apply it to their own life, I think is amazing and I think everyone will pick that up when they see the documentary.

- [Narrator] Roughly 10,000 people have congregated here in Gary this weekend of weekends.

(attendees cheering) - I am a Black man, I want a Black party.

I do not trust white Republicans or white Democrats.

(attendees cheering) When we come together, what time is it?

- [Audience] Nation time.

- When we respect each other, what time is it?

- [Audience] Nation time.

- What um.. What do you think that one gut thing is, you've seen him move about, but what's that one thing?

What's that one element in the gut that propels him?

- I believe he drew from his community, not only his mother, grandmother, stepfather, but he says in the documentary, he was always told, "go forward."

If he was in a bad place, Jesse, you get out of here.

He was really buoyed forth by his community, by his faith and by his church and somehow he, unlike a lot of us, really absorbed that and his strength of, his fortitude and his strength propelled him to heights no one could have imagined.

Education.

Let me, let me.

This important can offer this, though.

Yes, you can keep your good.

He's a beautiful man.

He's a beautiful man.

He's a beautiful man.

- And I think when you talk about leadership and what has made him so unique, is his power to forgive and move on.

He doesn't hold on to things, you know.

He doesn't hold on.

He can.

He keeps his he keeps his eyes on the prize.

Keeps his mind stayed on freedom, he knows where the end zone is and he lets none of the obstacles stop him from going to the end zone.

The other thing about his leadership, in addition to the power to, so that, in other words, the power to forgive allows him allows him to continue to build coalition.

It allows you to grow from your small space to meet him where he is in the larger space of forgiveness.

I think that's the first thing.

I think the other thing he has, he's grounded in faith.

This is a church.

He, I mean from the time he came out of the womb from my grandparents, from our uncles and great uncles and great aunts.

He's a churchgoing man.

So he's so grounded in his Bible, in his religion, in his faith.

And so he just ultimately believes basically in the power of God and the power of Jesus to make things right now he believes that God works much better when you have lots of little legs, and lots and lots of little aren't pulling things down for him, and he wants to be one of those workers on behalf of people doing God's work.

And so I think the combination of those things and preparation, he's a prepared man, scholarly, well read, was able to take information and, and, and distill it so this understandable to people.

Analyze it, break it down, talk about it, make sure that it becomes, understood by the common man, not just the scholars, but take the scholarly and make it a common thought.

He doesn't use big words a lot because you can't understand them.

Doesn't mean he doesn't know what they mean.

He can, but that's not part of his diction, because that doesn't that doesn't resonate with people.

So they understand things.

And then he he's available.

Jesse Lewis Jackson senior is available.

He's usually the first person you hear from the morning.

He's a last words you hear from at night.

And in times of tragedy when you are personally confronted with something, it's the time when you think, I'm not going to call that person, because any time Jesse Jackson is there knocking on your door saying, hey, let's be there together.

So he's been available to people for a long, long time.

And I think that's a big component of his leadership.

- One of the things I wanna recognize is education.

Reverend is very geared towards education and encouraging.

So I've been around your dad since I was a college student, at about 17 years old and I would leave school and go to Red Basket and if there was a lull in working, a lull in doing something, he would always say, "you got your books with you?"

"Yes," "Okay, go read and then we'll resume in 30 minutes or so" and then it was like, "so what are you reading?

You know, let's talk about it."

Let's talk about Locke, let's talk about the Federalist Papers.

Always a discussion to make sure that the meaning was understood.

- These theories that a lot of the social workers come up with, and they say, now, the reason the Negro can't learn, says his daddy is gone and his mama is pitiful and he doesn't understand anything about education and not much food in his refrigerator and is rats all in the house and that's the reason he can't learn (attendees laughing) (attendees chattering) and so we read all that mess and then we come to school and the group of Black folk come to the classroom and the teacher stand there feeling the guilty, say, "well, these poor pitiful Negros," (attendees laughing) (attendees clapping) and say, "they got all these heartaches and trials and tribulations and they're so pitiful and now I gotta stand up here and try to teach 'em how to read and write and count."

(attendees laughing) (attendees clapping) If we can run faster and jump higher and jump higher and shoot a basketball straight off of inadequate diets, then we can read and write and count and think of those same diets, all that can happen.

- You know, that's one of the most, I think one of the most important things I've taken from this documentary experience, is how philosophical the leaders of the movement were.

They studied, my father included, everybody.

I mean, they really understand the principles of non-violence, the principles of Republican government more than most and they had to determine how they were gonna approach the movement from freedom to equal protection under the law.

He is, I think he got the education thing from my grandparents.

- I think so too.

- Yeah.

You know, they were, - I think (indistinct), your grandmother.

- My grandma- - Absolutely pushed that, all the time.

- And she was not educated woman.

She was born in the 1900s.

- Always, did she- - And she insisted that education was good.

My grandmother, Gertrude too.

- [Narrator] His message so impressed the Los Angeles Board of Education, that they ask him to supervise a $400,000 self-help program for Black school children and Jackson hopes the concept will spread to other cities.

The idea is to build confidence, starting with even the smallest children.

- I am.

- [Children] I am!

- Somebody.

- [Children] Somebody.

- [Jesse] My mind.

- [Children] My mind.

- [Jesse] Is a pearl.

- [Children] Is a pearl.

- [Jesse] I can learn anything.

- [Children] I can learn anything.

So I think he and my mother together, they said, "if we can give you one thing, we can't give you money necessarily, young Jackson boys and girls.

We wanna give you a good name and an education."

- [Hermene] An education.

- And from that, you take it forward.

- So let's go into politics.

Let's go into '84 and '88, running for president of the United States.

That took a lot of guts, that was bold, that was research that was studied.

That was, if the vote did this, if the vote did that, if we register this, if we register that, that was probably, I think in history of politics, that will be considered as one of the boldest movements ever.

So what did you learn about '84 and '88 political campaigns?

and 88 political campaigns?

United States of America running for president.

You learn anything.

You know.

You know what the crazy thing is like.

So when I when I lived through the campaigns as a son of Reverend Jesse Jackson, I was not a staffer.

I was some at some level, a surrogate speaker, when I was 13 for the first campaign and 17 for the next campaign.

- It was just awesome in terms of, it was an exciting campaign.

- And it was perpetual, it never stopped.

- I mean, he just kept running and breaking down barriers and busting odds.

He just kept going, so what I loved about him was his tenacity.

- When we're talking together, I always call him Jesse, we'd been friends for so long now and I never thought we could win then and so we argued and fought and argued and fought, and he put me in a box or two, a time or two, but I almost felt like we were members of a rock band singing two different lines in the, I just, you know, I thought he was great.

He never gave up trying to convince people that they could bend the arc of history.

- My dad would not stop and he was so bold.

I remember once, when he was in New York, he went to a park where a number of AIDS victims were recuperating from their infections and one wanted to go into the space where they were.

Jesse Jackson opened that door, walked right in and touched people and hugged people and gave them confidence.

He just he's a fearless fellow.

He prayed with them.

He just doesn't see people that way, you know?

- He sees the human spirit.

- [Yusef] Yeah.

- That's his indoctrination for real, honest to goodness, it is.

- Yeah.

- What'd you learn from the presidential campaign?

- Well, from the storytelling perspective, we learned that it was not a trick.

He did not pull a rabbit out of a hat and he was prepared and studied as you and Yusef just mentioned.

He had offices, the Rainbow Coalition had offices, well that was Operation Push, but they had offices around the country, I believe somewhere between 30 and 50 satellite offices.

He had worked for so long and in so many communities that he could actually pull it off.

So it wasn't, I don't believe, as we watched the story, third person, that it was a brash, it was brash, but it was not unstudied and it was very analytical move based on facts and a platform that he had created prior to that.

He had asked and tried to pull in other candidates to encourage other African American candidates to run.

They declined.

He started a voter registration drive around the country, particularly in the south, registering voters to change and sway elect, you know, forthcoming elections.

So when he ran, he stepped out on faith, but he also stepped out on his good works from decades prior.

- So, I wanna tell you a story.

I don't think you know this.

So of course, money was an issue and a problem in the campaign.

We didn't have PACs, we didn't have all of that.

So it was a real, - He raised money as he goes.

- it grassroots, it was like, let's go in this church and raise some money, okay.

So bags, there used to be mail bags, bags were coming into Push, bags, and they were just thrown up on, you know, just put that over there, put that over there.

Leon Finney and I were sitting and Leon said, "boy, these bags, they just keep coming in.

We gotta open up that mail."

He gave me a bag and he said, "go in there and start opening that up.

We need to know what's in these bags."

I start opening up the bags and it was $25.

"I am the so and so of church, so and so, I want you to run, here's $50, here's $25, here's $5."

"I'm the deacon of, here's a hundred dollars."

So when we realized it was money, checks, they locked me up in the room and said, just keep opening up the bags.

You know how much money was in those?

It was six bags.

You know how much money was in those bags?

- No.

- $6 million, 20, fives, fifties, a hundreds, maybe every now and then a thousand might be from a businessman with $6 million.

I proudly walked into the room two or three days later as the money was being discussed with what we did not have to say, I have $6 million, $6 million, and each bag represented about a million dollars.

- You know, he was a beginning, I believe of the low dollar, - [Hermene] Low dollar.

- Low dollar donor - Donation.

- Yeah, beginning of all that, - GoFundMe.

- We raised money.

- The original GoFundMe.

- Everywhere he went, he raised money, he didn't really have a great financial strategy, he didn't have a great financial plan, but he had a, they called it "A poor campaign with a rich message."

- That's right.

- And so his message was rich and it resonated with people.

The other thing I think is interesting about his campaigns is he created a way, he didn't go to the party head, didn't go to the head of the Senate, the head of the Congress, he created a path and said, "listen, it's the people that we're gonna be accountable to."

- It was the people's campaign - And so we're gonna raise, we're gonna register voters.

And even today, when you think about, the 70 some million votes to Donald Trump, God, last election, 70 some low 70s that Kamala Harris got, 89 people, 89 million eligible voters did not vote.

Jesse Jackson's coalition is still the majority coalition today.

Once you realize your power.

But when you don't realize your power, then you don't vote.

When you're disaffected by fear and frustration, you're not going forward by hope, he would say, well, then you drop your rod and you don't part the Red sea.

If it were not for Reverend Jackson, and it's not simply in finance or sports or fast food, across industries, he challenged boards and corporations to open their doors to allow minorities, women and people who were locked out, who were qualified to participate to make money for the corporation, but also that there were markets, that they were either ignoring or taking advantage of and so he was really a leader in opening doors for so many different people and so many industries that he fought for and that he made that difference in.

- Jesse Jackson said, "African American markets represent money, market and opportunity."

- [Hermene] That's right.

- He said, "You don't have to invest in a foreign land.

You can invest right across the railroad tracks where we are, we have now, I think, approaching a $2 trillion consumer market for African American people right now, which is a big part of the US economy."

You're not gonna believe me if I say it, you might believe me, but I think we're in a very narrow lane.

I mean, for the young people today, the concept of an African American quarterback, at one level was made popular and introduced by Reverend Jesse Jackson, the concept that African American, 'cause they used to say that our brains weren't developed enough to be able to call plays or to play quarterback, just couldn't do it - On football field.

- On football field.

Black coaches in the NBA and the NFL, general managers in baseball, all of those are, it's difficult to find one today where Reverend Jackson's work didn't impact the decision making of the change in the culture where it made sense to even be considered.

Reverend Jackson challenged that entire system.

- He's the beginning of the reason why you have any level of African American, Hispanic, and almost women participation.

- So what do you want a 20-year-old that's looking at this documentary?

What do you want them to get out of it?

- They have to understand that we live in a participatory democracy and that culture doesn't change by itself, you have to change it, and you can't wait on someone else to change it.

If Jesse Jackson can do it from the means from which he came, you can too.

In fact, it is your obligation to do so.

Not just to ride on this train, but to also help direct this bus.

- [Hermene] I wanna thank both of you and congratulate you both.

- It's good to be here.

- For the documentary, can't wait to see it, in its entirety.

Bill and I've been talking for months now, but no, for years now, and I can't wait to see the whole thing and congratulations.

This is Jesse's book.

Thank you so much.

Thank you for joining us today with N'digo Studio.

My guest, Mr.

Yusef Jackson and Bill Keys on a documentary of Reverend Jesse Jackson.

For more information about this show, follow us on social media Funding for this program was provided by Illinois Student Assistance Commission, Community Trust, CineCity Studios Lamborghini Chicago, Gold Coast and Downers Grove Commonwealth Edison and Broadway in Chicago " MUSIC " N'digo Studio.