>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, IT IS BACK TO SCHOOL AS THE GOVERNOR TARGETS FEBRUARY 8 TO BRING KIDS BACK.

>> Governor: : BUT DEALING WITH THE VIRUS MUST NOT AND WILL NOT DERAIL OUR FOCUS ON IMPROVING OUTCOMES IN PUBLIC EDUCATION.

>> Gene: WE'LL HAVE REACTION TO THE STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS AND MUCH MORE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOSE, GENE GRANT.

WE'LL HAVE EXTENDED ANALYSIS OF THE GOVERNOR'S STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS WITH OUR SPECIAL LINE OPINION PANEL OF FORMER LAWMAKERS.

WE'LL ALSO TALK ABOUT THE STATE'S TROUBLED VACCINE ROLLOUT AND WHETHER IT IS A SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUE OR LOCAL LOGISTICS NEED RETHINKING.

WE'LL ALSO DISCUSS AN ASSOCIATED PRESS INVESTIGATION SHOWING LEGISLATORS WHO ACCEPTED CORONAVIRUS AID FOR SMALL BUSINESSES AND WE'LL TALK TO THE AUTHOR OF NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH REPORT ON LOBBYISTS WHO FOUND THEMSELVES FROZEN OUT OF THE CAPITOL.

HERE IS THE LINE.

A LITTLE LATER AND A LOT SHORTER, GOVERNOR MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM GAVE LAWMAKERS A WEEK TO SORT OUT THEIR HYBRID SESSION AND GET TO WORK BEFORE DELIVERING HER STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS.

WITHOUT GUESTS AND WITHOUT POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE, THE SPEECH CLOCKED IN AT A HAIR OVER 26 MINUTES.

HERE TO SHARE SOME SHOTS, OUR LINE OPINION PANEL MADE UP OF FORMER LAWMAKERS.

JOINING US THROUGH THE MAGIC OF ZOOM IS FORMER STATE SENATOR AND REGULAR DEDE FELDMAN.

ERIC GRIEGO, A FORMER STATE SENATOR AND HEAD OF THE NEW MEXICO WORKING FAMILIES PARTY.

JUSTINE FOX-YOUNG ALSO WITH US, A FORMER STATE REP AND A LOCAL ATTORNEY.

AND FINALLY WE HAVE FORMER HOUSE MINORITY WHIP AND LINE REGULAR DANIEL FOLEY.

WELCOME ALL.

NOW, SAYING EDUCATORS, STAFF, STUDENTS AND PARENTS HAVE GONE THE EXTRA MILE AND THEN THE EXTRA MILE AFTER THAT, THE GOVERNOR'S BIG NEWS WAS A FEBRUARY 8 TARGET TO BRING STUDENTS OF ALL KINDS BACK TO THE CLASSROOM.

LET'S FIRST START WITH A COUPLE MINUTES OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR SAID ABOUT CLASSROOM EDUCATION AND THE BUDGET.

>> Governor: TEACHERS AND SCHOOL SUPPORT STAFF ALL ACROSS NEW MEXICO WENT THE EXTRA MILE THIS YEAR AND THEN THE EXTRA MILE AFTER THAT TOO.

I AM IN AWE OF YOUR COMMITMENT AND YOUR INTEGRITY AND I WILL SAY CLEARLY, NONE OF YOU, NO EDUCATOR, NO SCHOOL WORKER, SHOULD EVER HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN YOUR HEALTH AND THE STUDENTS YOU SERVE.

AND THAT IS WHY MY ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN THE METHODICAL AND TIRELESS WORKING WITH SUPERINTENDENTS, CHARTER LEADERS, NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT, THE MEDICAL ADVISORY TEAM, NEA AND AFT TO ENHANCE THE SAFETY OF SCHOOL BUILDINGS AND EXPAND SURVEILLANCE TESTING.

THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR IN-PERSON LEARNING.

AND THERE IS NO NEGOTIATING ABOUT THE HEALTH AND SAFETY OF STUDENTS, FAMILIES ANDS EDUCATORS.

AND I BELIEVE THE PLANNING AND HARD WORK HAS PAID OFF.

OUR STATE HAS DEVELOPED A SOLID EPIDEMIOLOGICALLY SOUND PLAN FOR A SAFE EXPANSION OF IN-PERSON LEARNING FOR ALL AGE GROUPS SUPPORTED BY UNION LEADERSHIP.

WE WILL GET THIS RIGHT AND WE WILL MOVE FORWARD AND EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE STATE WILL BE ABLE TO WELCOME ALL AGES OF STUDENTS SAFELY BACK TO THE CLASSROOM ON FEBRUARY 8.

THAT IS NOT ALL.

YES, COVID HAS DISRUPTED CLASSROOMS IN NEW MEXICO.

AND INDEED ACROSS OUR WHOLE COUNTRY BUT DEALING WITH THE VIRUS MUST NOT AND WILL NOT DERAIL OUR FOCUS ON IMPROVING OUTCOMES IN PUBLIC EDUCATION, UNNECESSARY LONG-TERM INVESTMENTS IN FAMILY WELL-BEING AND HEALTH OF SCHOOL COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE.

WE WILL ENACT AND EQUITY FIRST BUDGET FOR PUBLIC EDUCATION, ENSURING MONEY REACHES STUDENTS AND SCHOOLS IN PROPORTION TO THE SOCIOECONOMIC NEEDS OF FAMILIES IN THE COMMUNITY, LAYING THE PATH TO A PUBLIC EDUCATION SYSTEM THAT TRULY DELIVERS FOR STUDENTS NOW AND 100 YEARS FROM NOW, NO MATTER THEIR ZIP CODE, THEIR FAMILY CIRCUMSTANCES OR THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

>> Gene: YOU KNOW FROM A LEARNING STANDPOINT, I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYONE THINKS THIS A BAD IDEA BUT, ERIC, I GOT ASK YOU, WHAT ABOUT LOGISTICS?

SCHOOLS DON'T HAVE TO OPEN.

THEY ARE LEAVING IT UP TO DISTRICTS THEMSELVES.

STUDENT POPULATION SHOULD BE LIMITED AND SMALL IN SOME WAYS.

YOUR FIRST BLUSH.

IS THIS GOING TO WORK?

IS IT TOO EARLY?

IS IT THOUGHT OUT ENOUGH?

>> WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF IT?

>> Eric: I NOTICE APS IS ALREADY RAISING SOME PRETTY MAJOR CONCERNS AND MY SON GOES TO ONE OF THE CHARTERS HERE, SO THEY ARE GOING TO KIND OF MAKE THEIR OWN DECISION.

THEY ARE TRYING TO WIND THEIR WAY THROUGH IT.

SO, I THINK IT IS QUICK, BUT ANYBODY WHO HAS KIDS AT HOME, MY WIFE BEING EDUCATOR, THERE ARE REAL HEALTH CONCERNS BUT AT THE SAME TIME, IF YOU HAVE KIDS AT HOME, I MEAN, EVERYBODY IS EAGER TO GET THEM BACK IN THE CLASSROOM.

I KNOW HE IS READY AND WE HAVE TO DO IT SAFELY BUT I AM HOPEFUL THAT WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT SOONER RATHER THAN LATER.

IF WE NEED A COUPLE WEEKS I GET IT, BUT IF IT IS A COUPLE MORE MONTHS, I AM GOING TO BE REALLY DISAPPOINTED.

>> Gene: IT IS THE PARENTS LAMENT HERE, EXPRESSING THERE.

JUSTINE, WE ARE RELIANT ON WEEKLY TESTING AND VACCINATION.

APS SAYS IT HAD TROUBLE EVEN TESTING 10% OF ITS STAFF, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

THERE IS A LOT OF TEACHERS OUT THERE SAYING THEY ARE VERY RELUCTANT TO GET BACK IN A CLASSROOM UNLESS THERE IS A VACCINATION.

AND, THE GOVERNOR SAYS TWO UNIONS ARE ON BOARD BUT INDIVIDUALLY, THEY ARE NERVOUS ABOUT RETURNING TO THE CLASSROOM.

WHAT SHOULD WE BE SAYING TO TEACHERS ABOUT THIS?

>> Justine: FROM WHAT I HAVE HEARD ANECDOTALLY, TEACHERS, STUDENTS, PARENTS, STUDENTS ARE PRETTY SHOCKED AT THE FEBRUARY 8 DATE.

EVERYTHING THAT THE GOVERNOR DELIVERED IN THE MESSAGE SEEMS PRETTY ABSTRACT TO ME EXCEPT FOR THIS PRECISE DATE.

AND THEN, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE GOT THIS STATEMENT THAT THE UNIONS ARE ON BOARD AND THAT THEY HAVE WORKED EVERYTHING OUT, EPIDEMIOLOGICALLY, BUT THIS IS FOUR DAYS AFTER, YOU KNOW, CANCELING A MASS VACCINATION CLINIC FOR RIO RANCHO TEACHERS.

SO, I GUESS, I AM A LITTLE PERPLEXED.

SEEMS TO ME LIKE THE GOVERNOR IS PUNTING AND GETTING ON THE RIGHT SIDE POLITICALLY OF THE ISSUE AND CERTAINLY TAKING THE TACK THAT I DON'T THINK ANYBODY DISAGREES.

KIDS NEED TO GET BACK FOR SO MANY REASONS, BUT WHERE IS THE DETAILED PLAN AND HOW ARE VACCINATIONS NOT A PART OF THAT PLAN?

SO, IT IS EASY TO KICK IT TO THE LOCALS AND KICK IT TO THE TEACHERS AND SAY ARE THE UNIONS ON BOARD, YOU GUYS FIGURE IT OUT.

I DON'T THINK ULTIMATELY THAT IS GOING TO BE A WINNING POLITICAL POSITION FOR HER.

BECAUSE ALMOST A YEAR INTO THIS, THEY HAVE BEEN MICROMANAGING EVERY ASPECT OF THE RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC AND THERE NEEDS TO BE A DETAILED PLAN.

SO, I AM WONDERING WHY WE ARE NOT HEARING THOSE DETAILS ON EXACTLY THE VACCINATIONS SCHEDULE, WHAT THE TESTING REGIMEN WILL LOOK LIKE AND WHY WE ARE ALL TO UNDERSTAND THAT EVERYBODY IS KEPT SAFE.

>> Gene: SENATOR FELDMAN, PICK UP ON THAT IF YOU WOULD.

IT IS A LEGIT QUESTION.

VACCINATIONS OUT THERE BUT THEY ARE NOT.

THESE TWO THINGS ARE CLASHING, IT SEEMS TO ME.

>> Dede: THIS IS THE CLASSIC CASE OF MIXED MESSAGING AND I THINK THAT IT SURPRISED ME, FRANKLY.

I THINK IT CAN ONLY BE EXPLAINED BY IMMENSE PRESSURE THAT THE GOVERNOR WAS GETTING TO REOPEN THE SCHOOLS AND A RECENT REPORT FROM THE CDC THAT SAID THAT SCHOOLS WERE NOT A MAJOR SOURCE OF COMMUNITY SPREAD.

SO, THAT, PERHAPS, GAVE A GREEN LIGHT BUT, YOU KNOW, THE MAJORITY OF OUR COUNTIES ARE STILL IN THE RED DISTRICT AND WE DO NOT HAVE VACCINATIONS FOR TEACHERS.

I THINK IN SPITE OF THE UNION SUPPORT, TEACHERS HAVE REAL QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER 25 TO 50% OF THE WORKFORCE CAN BE TESTED EVERY WEEK OR EVERY TWO WEEKS.

THAT IS A PRETTY HIGH HURDLE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WHETHER, IF THEY OPT OUT OF THE SYSTEM, THEY WILL BE GUARANTEED A RIGHT TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WHERE THEY WANT TO TEACH.

I THINK THIS WAS ONE OF THE MAJOR DRAWBACKS.

TEACHERS WHO WERE OLDER OR WHO FELT THEIR HEALTH AT ISSUE WERE GIVEN THE RIGHT TO OPT OUT BUT THEN THERE WERE CERTAIN CONSEQUENCES TO THAT.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINTS YOU BROUGHT UP.

DANIEL, START WITH DEDE'S POINT ABOUT TEACHERS CHOOSING NOT TO GET VACCINATED AND THE RIGHT TO DO THAT, BUT I HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT BUDGET FOR YOU SPECIFICALLY.

I WANT TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE ON THE VACCINATION DEAL, AS WELL.

>> Dan: IT IS THE AGE OLD QUESTION, RIGHT?

ANTI-VACCINATION MOVEMENT HAS GROWN IN THE LAST FEW YEARS, BECOME A LOT MORE PUBLIC, BECOME A LOT MORE WITH THE MEDIA ACCESS WITH THE CELEBRITIES THAT HAVE GOTTEN ON BOARD WITH BEING AGAINST VACCINATIONS, SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS A HUGE QUESTION, RIGHT?

THERE ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT WHY DO YOU KEEP MY KID FROM GETTING AN EDUCATION IF I AM OPPOSED TO VACCINATIONS.

NOW THE TABLES ARE TURNED.

NOW YOU GOT TEACHERS SAYING I AM OPPOSED TO TAKING A VACCINATION, WHY ARE YOU GOING TO KEEPING ME FROM DOING MY JOB.

SO IT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

I AM NOT SURE IF IT IS GOING TO BE ADDRESSED BY POLITICIANS OR BY COURTS.

>> Gene: INTERESTING LAST SENTENCE.

I HAVE SOMETHING ABOUT EQUITY-BASED BUDGETING.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT AT THIS TABLE.

YOU HAVE BEEN A PART OF THIS.

IT IS CLEARLY A NOD TO YAZZIE/MARTINEZ, THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT BUT THIS IS SOMETHING YOU LONG PROJECTED MY FRIEND THAT THE STATE WOULD START TO FEEL THE PRICE TAG OF COMPLIANCE AND THEN TRY TO EASE OUT OF THE BURDEN AT SOME POINT.

EVERYBODY BEING STRONG ON THAT, WAY BACK.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF IT NOW THAT WE ARE GETTING A CLEARER PICTURE OF THIS?

>> Dan: I THINK IT IS GOING TO GET WORSE.

ONCE -- YOU KNOW, I HAD SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING, IT WASN'T A PARTISAN ISSUE IN MY OPINION THAT I THINK THE GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE TO BACK OUT OF SUING BEING INVOLVED IN TELLING THAT JUDGE, YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DICTATE HOW WE ARE GOING TO CREATE BUDGETS, IT IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

AND, LOOK, THERE IS NO DOUBT THERE IS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BUDGETING PROCESS, NO ONE IS DENYING THAT.

WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATIONS AND IT GETS TURNED AROUND, IF YOU SAY THIS YOU'RE AUTOMATICALLY AGAINST THAT.

I AM NOT SAYING THERE IS NOT A DISCREPANCY.

I AM SAYING THERE IS A SEPARATION OF POWERS AND WHEN YOU ALLOW A JUDGE TO DECIDE THEY ARE GOING TO TAKE OVER THE BUDGET PROCESS, WHERE DOES IT END?

WE HAVE POLICE SAFETY ISSUES.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH POLICE DEPARTMENTS.

WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH NATIONAL GUARD.

WE HAVE PROBLEM WITH ROADS IN NEW MEXICO.

WHAT IS NEXT?

WHAT JUDGE IS GOING TO COME IN AND SAY, WE ARE GOING TO DECIDE THAT WE ARE GOING TO FIX THIS BRIDGE IN THIS COUNTY OVER THAT BRIDGE IN THAT COUNTY OR WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OVER THE PRIORITIZATION OF THE TRAINING THE POLICE DEPARTMENTS OR WHAT WE PAY POLICE OFFICERS.

IT SEEMS TO BE A SLIPPERY SLOPE AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS FROM THE BEGINNING AND I SEE THAT LAWSUIT TAKING MORE AND MORE OF THE POWER FROM THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH AND CREATING A BUDGET AND FUNDING A BUDGET AND PUTTING IT IN THE HAND OF A SINGLE JUDGE IN COURT.

>> Gene: CHECK OUT THE GOVERNOR ON ANOTHER SITUATION.

GOVERNOR WAS INSISTENT THAT NEW MEXICO HAS MADE PROGRESS TOWARDS DIVERSIFYING ITS ECONOMICALLY DESPITE THE PANDEMIC.

>> Governor: 2020 WAS NOT A LOST YEAR IN OUR ESSENTIAL EFFORTS TO PROTECT OUR NATURAL ENVIRONMENT AND DIVERSIFY OUR ENERGY ECONOMY.

IN TWO YEARS, WE HAVE DOUBLED OUR NEW RENEWABLE RESOURCES OVER THE TWO YEARS BEFORE THAT.

NEW MEXICO WILL BE HOME TO THE LARGEST SINGLE WIND COMPLEX IN THE NATION.

AND I EXPECT WE WILL SOON RANK IN THE TOP FIVE IN THE COUNTRY FOR PER CAPITA WIND ENERGY PRODUCTION.

WE ARE DRIVING DOWN ENERGY COSTS FOR YOU AND REDUCING EMISSIONS.

PROPERTY VALUES ARE RISING.

FOR THE SECOND STRAIGHT YEAR, MORE PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO NEW MEXICO THAN MOVING OUT.

>> Gene: JUSTINE, I GOT A QUESTION.

IS THE GOVERNOR PAINTING TOO ROSY A PICTURE THERE OR ARE WE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AS SHE SAYS?

>> Justine: IT'S THE STATE OF THE STATE AND SHE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BOTTOM FOLLOWING OUT OF THE BUDGET, MORATORIUM ON OIL AND GAS.

YOU HAVE TO PUT A POSITIVE SPIN ON IT AND SHE HAS FOUND ONE, I GUESS.

BUT, I DON'T THINK IT IS AN ACCURATE PICTURE OF THE ECONOMY HERE.

I MEAN, WE HAVE ALL BEEN READING THE REPORTS.

10 TIMES NUMBER OF KIDS ARE IN SHELTERS AS OF THIS TIME LAST YEAR.

ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS DRIVE DOWNTOWN ALBUQUERQUE AND SEE THE PARKS ARE FULL OF FAMILIES AND FULL OF PEOPLE.

PEOPLE ARE FALLING OFF THE BOTTOM AND THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED AND OUR GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO BE REALISTIC AND HONEST ABOUT HOW HARD THIS PANDEMIC HAS BEEN ON SO MANY WORKING PEOPLE, SO MANY PEOPLE.

SO, I UNDERSTAND -- I THINK IT IS A LITTLE TONE DEAF TO TALK ABOUT RENEWABLE ENERGY AND WE ARE PUSHING FORMED AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A NEW PUSH ON WIND ENERGY WHEN IT MAY BE A PRIORITY AND SHE CERTAINLY STUCK TO THAT FROM THE BEGINNING OF HER ADMINISTRATION, BUT WE HAVE VERY SERIOUS ISSUES JUST GETTING FOOD ON PEOPLES' PLATES RIGHT NOW.

AND VERY SERIOUS CONCERNS ABOUT WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO OIL AND GAS IN THIS STATE.

>> Gene: THAT LEADS ME TO A POINT.

SORRY TO CUT YOU OFF, MY FAULT.

SENATOR GRIEGO, THE BIG NEWS, OF COURSE, LAST 10 DAYS WAS NOW PRESIDENT BIDEN'S MORATORIUM ON NEW OIL AND GAS LEASING.

THIS HAS IMPACTS FOR NEW MEXICO.

CAN THE GOVERNOR GET TO WHERE SHE WANTS TO GET LITERALLY WITH THIS MORATORIUM IN PLACE OR IF WE TAKE A HIT ON OIL AND GAS HERE IN OUR STATE.

>> THERE WAS A GREAT PIECE WE SHARED IN THE CAPITOL PIECE ABOUT THIS RESOURCE CURSE THAT A LOT OF COUNTRIES GO THROUGH WHERE YOU ARE HEAVILY DEPENDENT ON NATURAL RESOURCE AND FOSSIL FUELS AND WHAT THAT DOES TO YOUR ECONOMY OR ABILITY TO DO THINGS THAT JUSTINE WAS TALKING ABOUT.

IN THE SHORT TERM, IT FUELS A LOT OF THIS SOCIAL SPENDING, AS A LOT OF DEVELOPING COUNTRIES DO, BUT IN THE LONG TERM IT JUST DOESN'T WORK, RIGHT?

YOU DON'T HAVE A DIVERSE ECONOMY.

YOU DON'T INVEST IN THE KIND OF HUMAN CAPITAL THAT NEEDS TO DEVELOP A LONG-TERM COMPETITIVE ECONOMY.

SO, I THINK IT IS REALLY KIND OF A WAKE-UP CALL THAT WE HAVE EVERY TIME WE HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE SOME OF THE RETURNS FROM THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY AND REALLY DOUBLE DOWN ON WIND OR SOLAR, WE HAVEN'T OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS.

AND ALL OF THOSE WHO FOUGHT THAT, I THINK HAVE SOME CULPABILITY, RIGHT?

OBAMA'S NEW BOOK TALKED ABOUT HOW MUCH HE GOT BEAT UP ON THE WHOLE SYLYNDRA SCANDAL, RIGHT, TRYING TO REALLY INVEST IN THIS TRANSITION AND POLITICALLY IT IS DANGEROUS BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT TO CLING TO THE CURRENT CASH COW, THE GOLDEN GOOSE.

AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU HAVE TO DO IT AND I THINK BIDEN IS SORT OF FORCING THAT DECISION NOW AND I THINK IT IS HARD FOR NEW MEXICANS WHO ARE SO DEPENDENT ON THIS INDUSTRY.

AND WE HAVE TO FIND -- I DO AGREE IT HAS TO BE MORE THAN RENEWABLE ENERGY JOBS.

IT HAS TO BE OTHER INDUSTRIES THAT ARE LOCAL AND THAT PEOPLE CAN FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A PLACE TO LAND IF THEY HAVE BEEN MAKING LIVELIHOOD ANYWHERE NEAR THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY.

>> Gene: SENATOR FELDMAN, PICK UP ON THAT WITH ABOUT A MINUTE LEFT.

CAN THE GOVERNOR GET TO HER GOALS OF BEING FOSSIL FREE WITHOUT USING THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY TO GET THERE?

IT IS THE ULTIMATE DILEMMA.

>> Dede: SHE IS TRYING TO USE THIS CRISIS AS A TURNING POINT AND CHANGE THE NARRATIVE AWAY FROM BOOM AND BUST INTO A DIFFERENT KIND OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT IS NOT JUST ALTERNATIVE ENERGIES BUT SHE ALSO HIGHLIGHTED OUTDOOR RECREATION.

SHE ALSO MENTIONED CANNABIS LEGALIZATION, WHICH IS A SOURCE OF REVENUE.

SHE ALSO MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, NETFLIX AND HIGH TECH KINDS OF ENTERPRISES AND I THINK THE BIG NEWS FOR ME WAS THE EMPHASIS ON BROADBAND, ASKING FOR 200,000 MILLION DOLLAR INVESTMENT IN BROADBAND AND ASKING EACH LEGISLATOR TO DEVOTE 1/2 OF THEIR CAPITAL OUTLAY TO BROADBAND EXPANSION, WHICH IS REALLY THE KEY TO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ESPECIALLY IN RURAL AREAS.

>> Gene: SENATOR, YOUR TIMING IS IMPECCABLE.

LET'S LISTEN TO THE GOVERNOR'S TAKE ON BROADBAND AND THAT ASK THAT DEDE FELDMAN JUST MENTIONED.

>> Governor: AT THE SAME TIME, WE WILL LEARN FROM THE LAST YEAR WHAT WAS TAKEN FROM US AND WHAT WAS EXPOSED.

THE PANDEMIC HAS REMINDED US THAT NEW MEXICO CANNOT WAIT ANY LONGER TO INVEST IN THE RELIABLE HIGH SPEED INTERNET FOR ALL IN OUR STATE.

I CALL ON THE LEGISLATURE TO COMMIT AT LEAST HALF OF THEIR CAPITAL OUTLAY ALLOCATIONS TO NEW BROADBAND INVESTMENTS.

SOME 200 HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS.

THIS IS THE MOST URGENTLY NEEDED INFRASTRUCTURE INVESTMENT WE CAN MAKE AS A STATE.

AND WE MUST MAKE IT.

TOGETHER WE MUST PUT IN PLACE THIS ESSENTIAL BUILDING BLOCK AND AVOW OUR UNEQUIVOCAL FAITH IN NEW MEXICO'S ECONOMIC FUTURE.

>> Gene: DANIEL FOLEY, 200 MILLION THAT IS A BIG CHUNK OF CHANGE AROUND THESE PARTS.

SHE PUSHED IT TO LAWMAKERS SAYING THEY SHOULD COMMIT HALF THEIR CAPITAL TO BROADBAND.

IS SHE PUNTING OR DOES THAT MAKE SENSE THAT EVERYBODY SHARES EQUALLY?

>> Dan: THEY HAVE TRIED TO CHANGE THE WAY CAPITAL OUTLAY IS DONE BUT WHEN WE WERE THERE IT WAS ALWAYS DIVIDED A THIRD, A THIRD, AND A THIRD.

THE GOVERNOR GOT A THIRD.

THE SENATE GOT A THIRD AND THE HOUSE GOT A THIRD.

I'LL DEFER TO MY COLLEAGUES AS WELL.

I KNOW THAT IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT PARTY THE GOVERNOR WAS FROM, WHEN THEY CAME SNIFFING AROUND LEGISLATOR'S CAPITAL OUTLAY, IT WAS ONE WAY TO UNIFY THE LEGISLATURE TO TELL THE GOVERN,OR IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON AND DO SOMETHING ELSE.

I THINK, DO WE HAVE A BROADBAND ISSUE?

IT IS NOT JUST RURAL NEW MEXICO.

WE GOT PROBLEMS RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND RIO RANCHO, BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS GOOD EXAMPLE OF KIND OF THE CONSISTENT THEME WE HAVE HAD A PROBLEM WITH IN NEW MEXICO WHETHER IT IS TALKING ABOUT RENEWABLE ENERGY -- LOOK THERE IS NO DOUBT WE HAVE A BEAUTIFUL STATE.

NOW WE ARE TELECOMMUTING.

MORE PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO MOVE PLACES LIKE THIS.

WE HAVE A TON WIND.

WE GET SUN, BUT THE PROBLEM ISN'T DO WE HAVE THESE RESOURCES, THE PROBLEM IS WE DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE TO DO ANYTHING WITH THESE RESOURCES.

WE HAVE VERY LITTLE CAPABILITY.

WE CAN BUILD ALL THE WIND TURBINES WE WANT BUT WE HAVE VERY LITTLE CAPACITY TO GET THAT ENERGY TO THE MARKET.

SAME WITH SOLAR.

IT IS THE SAME WITH BROADBAND.

WE ARE GOING TO COME UP WITH A 200 MILLION DOLLAR PLAN AND WE GOT PLACES IN THIS STATE THAT DON'T HAVE RUNNING WATER.

WE HAVE GOT PLACES IN THE STATE THAT HAVE NO ELECTRICITY WHATSOEVER.

>> Gene: LET ME GET BACK TO THE QUESTION ABOUT HER ASK AND ASK JUSTINE AS WELL.

THIS IDEA OF ASKING LEGISLATORS TO GIVE UP HALF THEIR CAPITAL OUTLAY, HOW DOES THAT LAND?

I HAVE NEVER BEEN ONE.

YOU ARE THE ELECTED FOLK.

I AM THINKING IT MUST BE A CLUNK OF SOME SORT TO BE ASKED THIS.

MAYBE THAT IS JUST ME, I DON'T KNOW.

>> Justine: I THINK IF IT IS FOR THE RIGHT ASK, THE PROCESS HAS EVOLVED, AS DAN SAYS.

I THINK PEOPLE LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY AND IF SHE CAN MOBILIZE SUPPORT, IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS ENOUGH PUBLIC SUPPORT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE SHE CAN GET THIS.

I AM NOT SURE THIS IS THE THING BUT THEY ARE LOOKING OUT THERE AT ALL THE KIDS WHO CAN'T PARTICIPATE IN REMOTE EDUCATION AND I GUESS MAKING THE JUDGMENT THAT MAYBE THIS IS THE ISSUE THAT GETS THEM THERE.

CAPITAL OUTLAY REFORM HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING.

SO, MAYBE SHE CAN GET IT DONE THIS YEAR.

>> Gene: IS 200 MILLION, JUSTINE, ENOUGH IN YOUR VIEW?

>> Justine: I HAVE NO IDEA.

I HAVEN'T SEEN THEIR CALCULATIONS.

PROBABLY NOT.

ALMOST CERTAINLY NOT, BUT I AM NOT EDUCATED ENOUGH ON IT TO KNOW WHAT THE SYSTEMS REALLY COST.

THAT IS THE OTHER PROBLEM IS YOU TAKE A BIG BITE AND YOU'RE REALLY OBLIGATING YOURSELF FOR HOW MANY MORE YEARS?

WHAT IS THE UPKEEP?

WHAT DOES A FULL ROLLOUT REALLY COST?

>> Gene: ERIC, ANOTHER THING SHE DID NOT MENTION, MEANING OUR GOVERNOR, OVERTURNING THE LAW THAT CRIMINALIZES ABORTION FOR DOCTORS PERFORMING THAT PROCEDURE.

STRATEGY THERE OR IS THAT A FORGONE CONCLUSION THE LEGISLATURE WILL REPEAL THIS LAW ANYWAY?

WHY EVEN BRING IT UP?

>> Eric: IT HAS A GOT TON OF MOMENTUM FROM A LOT OF THE FOLKS WHO GOT ELECTED IN BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE.

THAT WAS A KEY ISSUE IN THE RACE.

SO, I KNOW SHE IS SQUARELY AND STRONGLY BEHIND IT.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS MOMENTUM.

I AM A LITTLE SURPRISED SHE DIDN'T MENTION IT, BUT MAYBE I THINK THE FOCUS OF HER SPEECH WAS REALLY AROUND COVID-19 AND AROUND THE ECONOMY.

SHE STAYED PRETTY MUCH ON MESSAGE TO TALK PRETTY NARROWLY ABOUT THAT.

SHE TALKED ABOUT A COUPLE OTHER ISSUES, A LITTLE BIT OF HEALTHCARE, BUT REALLY IT WAS ALL COVID, ALL JOBS AND ALL ECONOMY.

AND I THINK ANY OF THESE MORE SORT OF CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES DIDN'T MAKE IT IN.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS OVERSIGHT OR STRATEGIC, BUT MAYBE IT IS A FORGONE CONCLUSION THAT IT HAS A LOT OF MOMENTUM IN THE SENATE AND HOUSE.

>> Gene: JUST A COUPLE SECONDS LEFT.

ERIC, GOT ALL LEGISLATORS HERE.

HOW DID THAT STATE OF THE STATE HIT YOU, IN GENERAL.

26 MINUTES, IT SEEMS LIKE IT WAS OVER BEFORE IT STARTED.

I HAVE NEVER SEEN SOMETHING SO SHORT.

HOW DID THAT STRIKE YOU AS HAVING SUCH BREVITY.

>> Eric: I THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT, SHORT AND SWEET.

USUALLY THESE THINGS ARE PAINFUL.

ALL THESE PAUSES, OH MY GOSH.

IT WAS NICE TO SEE HER BE SO FOCUSED.

THERE IS SOMETHING I WISH WAS IN THERE, BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF HIGHLIGHTS AND IT WAS CLEAR SHE WAS TRYING TO BALANCE THIS IDEA OF WE HAVE GOT TO DOUBLE DOWN ON MAKING IT THROUGH THE PANDEMIC, BUT ALSO ALL OF THE AIDE THAT IS GOING TO GO TO SMALL BUSINESSES AND BUSINESSES OF ALL SIZES AND TRYING TO LIKE SORT OF BALANCE THOSE TWO THINGS, WHICH I THINK IS WHERE THIS IS.

A COUPLE SURPRISING ANNOUNCEMENTS AROUND SCHOOLS, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT IT WAS A PRETTY FOCUSED SPEECH, PRETTY NARROW IN SCOPE.

>> Gene: DEDE, DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF THAT?

WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

HOW DID THAT STRIKE YOU, THE BREVITY OF THE SPEECH?

IS THAT A MODEL FOR LATER?

>> Dede: I HOPE SO.

I REALLY HOPE SO.

I THINK USUALLY THERE IS A LOT OF, CHAFF THAT CAN BE CUT OUT OF A STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH AND SHE SET A TONE.

THE TONE WAS ONE OF HEALING, ONE OF SYMPATHY AND ALSO ONE OF HOPE.

AS I SAID EARLIER, I THINK SHE WAS TRYING TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE AND TRY TO PIVOT INTO A MORE HOPEFUL FUTURE WHILE ACKNOWLEDGING HOW VERY DIFFICULT IT HAS BEEN.

>> Gene: GOOD END THERE.

TIME FOR A BREAK.

BACK TO TALK COVID-19 VACCINE EFFORTS HERE AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHEN WE RETURN.

>> Metzger: THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BEING ABLE TO OBSERVE WHAT IS GOING ON VERSUS BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE INPUT.

CERTAINLY LOBBYISTS, THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN WORKING THERE FOR A LONG TIME AND HAVE THOSE RELATIONSHIPS IN PLACE ALREADY ARE GOING TO HAVE AN EASIER TIME PURSUING THEIR AGENDAS THAN REGULAR OLD CITIZENS.

>> Gene: NEW MEXICO'S PANDEMIC RESPONSE LEADERS THIS WEEK BACKED OFF THE TIME LINE FOR VACCINATION, SAYING IT WILL LIKELY TAKE MONTHS TO GET EVERYONE WHO IS OLDER OR HAS AN UNDERLYING CONDITION TO GET THEIR TWO SHOTS, MONTHS.

EVEN AS PRESIDENT BIDEN PROMISED MORE VACCINE FOR THE COUNTRY, LOCAL ROLLOUT HIT STUMBLING BLOCK AFTER STUMBLING BLOCK.

THE GOVERNOR HAS BEEN A CHEERLEADER FOR DISTANCING, MASKING AND HAND WASHING.

LET'S TAKE ANOTHER LOOK BACK TO THE STATE OF THE STATE TO SEE WHAT SHE HAD TO SAY.

>> Governor: THE LEADERSHIP OUR STATE HAS SHOWN IN FIGHTING COVID-19 IS THE EXACT SAME LEADERSHIP THAT WILL GET US BACK ON TRACK.

NEW MEXICO IS THE FIRST STATE IN THE COUNTRY TO ESTABLISH A DRIVE-THROUGH TESTING SITE.

WE HAVE REMAINED STEADILY IN THE TOP 10 NATIONALLY FOR COVID-19 TESTING PER CAPITA.

WE MOBILIZED A TRIBAL RESPONSE AND ASSISTANCE PLAN THAT WAS A MODEL FOR OTHER STATES.

WE ARE USING CUTTING EDGE SCIENCE TO TEST WASTEWATER SAMPLES TO PREVENT OUTBREAKS AT CORRECTIONAL AND JUVENILE JUSTICE FACILITIES.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO RAPIDLY, SAFELY AND EQUITABLY DISTRIBUTE VACCINES TO EVERY CORNER OF OUR STATE.

WE TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT THE PANDEMIC.

EVEN WHEN IT WASN'T WHAT SOME OF US WANTED TO HEAR.

WE PROTECTED OUR HOSPITALS AND HEALTHCARE RESOURCES.

WE GOT MORE THAN 26 MILLION MEALS TO SCHOOL KIDS ALL ACROSS NEW MEXICO.

DOCTORS, NURSES, CAREGIVERS, FIRST RESPONDERS, DAY CARE WORKERS, GROCERY STORE WORKERS, CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS AND SO MANY MORE HAVE ALL SHOWN UP FOR THEIR STATE WITH COURAGE, DEDICATION, AND GRACE.

WE STEPPED UP, ALL OF US AS NEW MEXICANS WHO LOVE OUR STATE AND LOOK OUT FOR YOUR NEIGHBORS.

>> Gene: HEY GUYS, ON ONE HAND NUMBERS ARE BACK DOWN AND THE FEARED HOLIDAY SPIKE WASN'T HUGE, THANK GOODNESS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE LINE JUMPING TO GET VACCINES, A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF PEOPLE STILL FEEL MASKS ARE EITHER UNHEALTHFUL OR AN INFRINGEMENT ON THEIR PERSONAL FREEDOM.

JUSTINE, ARE WE REALLY DOING THE NEIGHBORLY THING HERE?

>> Justine: IS THE GOVERNOR DOING THE NEIGHBORLY THING?

>> Gene: YEAH.

THROUGH THE EXTENSION OF ALL OF US.

>> Justine: WELL, I THINK PEOPLE ARE REALLY DOING THEIR BEST FOR THE MOST PART AND WITH ONE MAJOR CAVEAT I WOULD SAY THAT I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS HANDLED A VERY DIFFICULT COMPLEX PROBLEM WITH LOTS OF LOGISTICAL NUANCES VERY WELL.

THE TREATMENT OF INCARCERATED POPULATIONS AND DISREGARD FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN CUSTODY, AND MORE THAN DISREGARD, ACTUALLY HOUSING SEX OFFENDERS TOGETHER IN BASICALLY A LEPER COLONY OF COVID, I COULD GO ON, THAT TO ME IS THE EXCEPTION BUT IN GENERAL I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE WELL, COMMUNICATING, DEALING WITH ALL THESE BUREAUCRACIES.

GETTING THE VACCINE IN, DEALING WITH DISTRIBUTION, DEALING WITH ALL THESE PHARMACIES AND ALL THE RED TAPE AND THE DIFFICULTIES OF A TWO-SHOT VACCINE AND SO, YOU KNOW, I COMMEND THEM FOR THAT AND THE PUBLIC IS TRYING THEIR BEST TO KEEP GOING.

I SAID BEFORE, I THINK, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITY LEADERS IN SOME CASES CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF MODELING SAFE BEHAVIOR AND, I MEAN THAT IS ALWAYS TRUE.

BUT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO MUDDLE THROUGH.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

SENATOR FELDMAN, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING OUT THERE?

CONCERNING LOGISTICS, LOCAL LOGISTICS, WHAT CONCERNS YOU?

>> Dede: I THINK THAT NEW MEXICO IS DOING A GOOD JOB.

WE ARE THE THIRD BEST IN TERMS OF GETTING SHOTS INTO ARMS AND JUST THIS PAST WEEK WE VACCINATED, I THINK, IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE 64,000 PEOPLE.

THAT IS PRETTY FAST.

HAVING SAID THAT, THOUGH, I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A BETTER JOB DONE WITH COMMUNICATIONS IN TERMS OF EXPLAINING EXACTLY THE STAGES, 1A, 1B.

IT IS A PARTICULARLY FRUSTRATING TIME NOW BECAUSE WE ARE IN A 1B AND, OF COURSE, AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER, THERE ARE SOME HEALTHCARE WORKERS, EVEN, THAT DIDN'T TAKE THE VACCINATION IN 1A AND SO, NOW, THEY ARE SEEING THAT IT WORKS AND IT IS FINE SO THEY ARE COMING UP.

AND 1B, YOU KNOW, WHICH IS PEOPLE OVER 75 AND PEOPLE OVER 16 WHO HAVE UNDERLYING HEALTH ISSUES, THAT IS A BIG GROUP IN NEW MEXICO.

ONE OF OUR BIG PROBLEMS IN NEW MEXICO IS THE INCIDENCE OF CHRONIC DISEASES, ASTHMA, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE AND DIABETES.

THAT PHASE, 1B, IS GOING TO TAKE A LOT LONGER THAN EXPECTED AND THAT FRUSTRATES, FOR EXAMPLE, TEACHERS AND OTHER ESSENTIAL WORKERS.

THAT NEEDS TO BE COMMUNICATED BETTER.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF LINE CUTTING.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE BEING RESPECTFUL AND THE STATE IS BEING AS NIMBLE AS IT CAN BE, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THESE VACCINES HAVE TO BE REFRIGERATED, THERE ARE TWO DOSES.

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF LOGISTICAL HURDLES.

>> Gene: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 700, 800,000 PEOPLE IN THAT CATEGORY YOU RATTLED OFF THERE, TO LET FOLKS KNOW.

THIS IS A HUGE CHALLENGE.

DANIEL, INTERESTING POINT HERE.

THE BIDEN TEAM SAYS THEY FOUND A MESS IN TERMS OF VACCINE DELIVERY, NO SURPRISE THERE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND THEIR PARTNERSHIP ON THIS, WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF HOW THEY ARE DOING?

IS IT TRANSPARENT ENOUGH?

ARE THEY FAIR TO THE STATES ENOUGH.

ARE THEY LETTING THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT ENOUGH?

WHAT IS YOUR GUT TELLING YOU?

>> Dan: THERE IS ZERO CONFIDENCE FROM THE AVERAGE AMERICAN IN STATE AND LOCAL AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WHEN IT COMES TO DEALING WITH THIS PANDEMIC.

I THINK, LISTEN, I HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH JUSTINE THE GOVERNOR HAS DONE AS GOOD A JOB SHE CAN DO WITH INFORMATION SHE HAS BUT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE JUDGED, PER SE, ON THE DEATHS.

THEY ARE GOING TO BE JUDGED ON HOW THEY HANDLE DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION.

AND IT HAS BEEN, FROM THE TOP DOWN AND BOTTOM UP, IT HAS BEEN COMPLETELY CONFUSING.

1A, 1B, MY BRAIN WAS SHUTTING DOWN.

I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT THE AVERAGE PERSON OUT THERE -- I JUST KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HEAR ABOUT HOW EASY IT IS TO GET A TEST.

I HAD COVID.

MY SON HAD COVID.

WE HAD TO GET THE FAMILY TESTED.

YOU KNOW.

MY WIFE SIGNED UP FOR A TEST, GOT A RAPID TEST, FOUND OUT LATER THAT DAY.

THE SAME DAY MY DAUGHTER AND I WENT TO GET TESTED AND IT TOOK FOUR DAYS FOR US TO GET AN ANSWER.

I KNOW THAT WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE IN MY FAMILY TRY TO GET IN TO GET A TEST AND IT HAS TAKEN A WEEK.

OTHER PEOPLE IN MY FAMILY IT HAS TAKEN FIVE MINUTES, LITERALLY.

I THINK THE WHOLE -- WHAT WE HAVE WITNESSED HERE IS, YOU KNOW, LISTENING TO THE FORMER MAYOR AND OBAMA'S CHIEF OF STAFF WHO SAYS NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE.

I THINK THIS WHOLE SITUATION HAS BEEN POLITICIZED FROM THE START BY EVERYBODY.

I AM NOT BLAMING DEMOCRATS ONLY.

BY EVERYBODY.

I THINK THE AVERAGE NEW MEXICAN, THEY ARE OVERWHELMED.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING, I WAS AMAZED BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT EARLY ON WHEN THEY RAN THAT POLL THAT 70% OF NEW MEXICANS WERE SUPPORTING THE GOVERNOR'S HANDLING THE PANDEMIC IN THE JOURNAL POLL.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT THAT NUMBER IS TODAY.

I WOULD THINK THAT NUMBER IS GOING TO BE -- THERE IS A MASSIVE MOVEMENT, I WOULD THINK, FROM THAT 70% NUMBER AND I THINK THAT IS WHY, YOU KNOW, GETTING ALL THIS INFORMATION OUT ABOUT HERE IS WHAT WE ARE DOING, I THINK THEY KNOW THAT NUMBER IS MOVING.

AND THAT IS WHY THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT ADDRESSING COVID, HANDLING COVID, GETTING OUR SHOTS AND GETTING PEOPLE BACK TO SCHOOL.

>> Gene: ERIC.

SENATOR GRIEGO, SORRY.

I KNOW YOU KNOW THE NAME TIM MANNING.

HE USED TO RUN OUR HOMELAND SECURITY DEPARTMENT HERE UNDER GOVERNOR RICHARDSON.

HE IS NOW IN CHARGE OF SUPPLY LINE STRATEGY FOR THE PRESIDENT.

IT IS VERY INTERESTING.

ARE WE GOING TO GET AN INSIDE TRACK HERE OR GET SOMETHING FROM HAVING A NEW MEXICO IN THAT PLACE?

I MEAN, I AM SORT OF HALF JOKING.

WE HAVE DIRECT LINE INTO THE ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF THAT?

>> Eric: THAT WAS THE CONSOLATION PRIZE FOR THE GOVERNOR NOT GETTING IN THE CABINET.

I THINK SHE DID A GOOD JOB OF TRYING TO GET SOME GOOD NEW MEXICANS INTO THE ADMINISTRATION.

I HOPE THAT WILL BENEFIT US.

I WANT TO JUST ADD TO SOMETHING THAT DAN SAID TO YOUR QUESTION.

I THINK THIS IS LIKE A TEXTBOOK FAILURE OF AN IMPORTANT ROLE FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT HAPPENED.

TO SAY THAT BIDEN SHOULD TURN ON A DIME AND HAVE THE STRATEGY AND SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS WHEN THERE WAS NO STRATEGY AND IT WAS -- THIS IS GOING TO BE TAUGHT IN POLITICAL SCIENCE CLASSES FOR THE NEXT GENERATION ABOUT THE UTTER FAILURE OF OUR FEDERAL SYSTEM, FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ABSOLUTELY BEING NEGLECTIVE OF THEIR ROLE.

I AGREE WITH EVERYBODY WHO SAID THAT THE GOVERNOR AND THE STATES HAS DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF -- I HAVE A DIFFERENT -- I GOT ON THE SITE.

I AM NOT ELIGIBLE YET FOR A SHOT FOR VACCINE.

I HAD TESTING DONE A COUPLE OF TIMES.

IT WAS QUICK, IT DRIVE THROUGH.

IT WAS VERY PRECISE AND SO I FEEL LIKE WE ARE DOING AS GOOD A JOB AS WE COULD CONSIDERING THE NEGLECT FROM HAVING FEDERAL STRATEGY IN SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS THIS.

HOPEFULLY NOT JUST MANNING BUT OTHER FOLKS IN IMPORTANT POSITIONS WILL DEMONSTRATE HOW IMPORTANT IT IS TO HAVE COMPETENT PEOPLE IN OUR FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

IT IS IMPORTANT NOT JUST TO BEAT UP ON THEM BUT PEOPLE THAT CAN GET THE JOB DONE WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING AS IMPORTANT AS A CRISIS LIKE THIS.

>> Gene: I APPRECIATE YOU ELEVATING THAT POINT TO THAT PLACE.

WE ARE BACK TO TALK LAWMAKERS AVAILING THEMSELVES OF PANDEMIC AIDE, WHETHER THEY VOTED FOR IT OR NOT.

NEW MEXICO'S CITIZENS LEGISLATURE IS ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S MOST ACCESSIBLE.

THAT GOES FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC AS WELL AS THE PROFESSIONAL INFLUENCERS KNOWN AS LOBBYISTS.

WITH LAWMAKERS HUNKERING DOWN IN OFFICES, OR HOMES, AND COMMITTEE HEARINGS TAKING PLACE ONLINE, THAT ACCESS HAS TAKEN A HIT.

IT HAS ALSO PROVIDED AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXAMINE THE ROLE OF LOBBYISTS AT THE ROUNDHOUSE, THE VERY SUBJECT OF BRYAN METZGER'S RECENT ARTICLE FOR NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH.

NMIF PRODUCER MATT GRUBS HAS THE INTERVIEW.

>> Matt: BRYAN METZGER IS A REPORTING FELLOW WITH NEW MEXICO IN DEPTH.

BRYAN, RECENTLY YOU LOOKED AT THE ROLE OF LOBBYISTS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

THAT IS AN INTERESTING TOPIC NO MATTER WHEN YOU TAKE A LOOK AT IT, BUT RIGHT NOW AT THE PANDEMIC IT IS KIND OF A DIFFERENT STORY.

WHAT DID YOU FIND ABOUT HOW THINGS ARE WORKING AT THE ROUNDHOUSE FOR LOBBYISTS AND FOR SOME OF THE CITIZEN LAWMAKERS AND STAFF WHO RELY ON THAT?

>> Metzger: THANK YOU MATT, VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

WHAT I FOUND OVER THE COURSE OF MY REPORTING, OBVIOUSLY, WE KNOW THAT THE LEGISLATURE IS IN SORT OF A MOSTLY ONLINE FORMAT, RIGHT?

SENATE IS IN SORT OF A HYBRID FORMAT.

THE HOUSE IS GOING TO BE BASICALLY ENTIRELY ONLINE AND WHAT THAT MEANS FOR BOTH LEGISLATORS AND LOBBYISTS IS OVERALL DISRUPTION TO THE WAY THAT BUSINESS IS USUALLY DONE.

FOR LOBBYISTS, IN PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, ONE WAY IN WHICH THEY ARE ABLE TO PURSUE THEIR AGENDAS FOR THEIR CLIENTS IS BY MEETING LAWMAKERS FACE-TO-FACE IN THE HALLWAYS OR ON THE ROUNDHOUSE FLOOR.

AND SO BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A FACTOR THIS YEAR, OBVIOUSLY LOBBYISTS ARE NOT ALLOWED IN THE BUILDING.

MANY LEGISLATORS ARE ACTUALLY AT HOME, LOBBYIST HAVE TOLD ME THAT THEY ARE JUST GOING TO DO THEIR BEST TO RELY ON ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION.

SO, IF IT IS A SHORT MESSAGE, MAYBE THEY SEND A TEXT OR GIVE A QUICK CALL.

IF THERE IS SOME SORT OF LONGER MESSAGE THAT NEEDS TO BE DELIVERED, MAYBE THEY WILL SEND AN EMAIL BUT OVERALL IT IS AN ENVIRONMENT THAT IS CERTAINLY DIFFICULT FROM A LOBBYIST'S PERSPECTIVE AND FROM A LAWMAKER'S PERSPECTIVE.

EVERYONE THAT I HAVE TALKED TO HAS EXPRESSED SOME MEASURE OF DISPLEASURE WITH THE SITUATION.

ONE LEGISLATOR TOLD ME THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AMOUNT OF INFORMATIONAL MATERIALS THAT SHE IS GETTING ARE WAY HIGHER THAN USUAL BECAUSE OF THE ELECTRONIC FORMAT AND THAT, YOU KNOW, SHE IS GETTING CONSTANT INVITES TO ZOOM MEETINGS, AS I AM SURE MANY OF US ARE THESE DAYS.

BUT, THAT, BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS ONLINE, THE VOLUME OF WORK HAS ACTUALLY INCREASED TO A CERTAIN DEGREE.

ALL THESE DIFFERENT FACTORS ARE CONTRIBUTING TO A SESSION THAT IS OBVIOUSLY MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WHAT USUALLY TAKES PLACE.

>> Matt: I AM SURE PEOPLE ARE MUCH LESS LIKELY TO EDIT WHAT THEY SEND WHICH MEANS YOU'RE GETTING MORE THINGS AND THE THINGS YOU'RE GETTING, THERE IS MORE CONTENT.

LET'S DIG IN A LITTLE BIT MORE TO HOW LAWMAKERS RELY ON LOBBYISTS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW WE HAVE A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE.

THEY DON'T GET PAID BUT PERHAPS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT, THEY DON'T HAVE PROFESSIONAL STAFF AROUND THE YEAR.

WHAT DID YOU FIND ABOUT HOW LOBBYISTS STEP IN THERE AND THEN MAYBE WE CAN GET INTO A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS SORT OF A HEALTHY DYNAMIC?

>> Metzger: CERTAINLY, YES.

SO BECAUSE NEW MEXICO HAS A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE, YOU KNOW, IT IS REALLY -- WE HAVE DISTINCTION OF BEING THE ONE STATE IN THE UNION THAT DOES NOT COMPENSATE LEGISLATORS, DOES NOT PAY THEM A SALARY.

LEGISLATORS DO RECEIVE A PER DIEM OF, I THINK, SOMEWHERE ON THE ORDER OF 160, $180 PER DAY.

BUT REALLY THAT IS NOT ENOUGH TO MAKE A LIVING.

AND, SO, BECAUSE OF THAT AND BECAUSE OF THE FACT THERE IS NO PROFESSIONAL STAFF, LEGISLATORS OFTEN HAVE TO TURN TO LOBBYISTS, MANY OF WHICH ARE WELL PAID AND HAVE THE RESOURCES AT THEIR DISPOSAL TO PRESENT INFORMATION TO LEGISLATORS IN A WAY SUCH THAT, YOU KNOW, LEGISLATORS, LIKE I MENTIONED EARLIER, ARE SORT OF UNDER A DELUGE OF DIFFERENT INFORMATION.

IF YOU COUPLE THAT WITH ALL THE EXPENDITURES THAT ARE MADE UP TO LEGISLATORS, AT LEAST IN NORMAL YEARS, YOU KNOW, FOR MEALS, GIFTS AND, OF COURSE, POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS, WHAT THAT LEADS TO IS A KIND OF POWER IMBALANCE WHERE LEGISLATORS THEMSELVES, WITHOUT THE STAFF AND SORT OF AN IN-HOUSE, IF YOU WILL, WAY OF FORMULATING POLICY, OFTEN HAVE TO TURN TO LOBBYISTS TO HELP THEM SORT OF LEARN THE FACTS ON A DIFFERENT ISSUE AND ULTIMATELY TO DECIDE HOW TO VOTE.

THAT IS NOT TO SAY THAT LEGISLATORS ARE COMPLETELY CONTROLLED BY LOBBYISTS OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE LEGISLATOR THAT I TALKED TO SPOKE ABOUT HOW SHE OFTEN SPEAKS TO LOBBYISTS AND THEN WILL ASK, YOU KNOW, WELL, WHO IS ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THIS ISSUE?

WHO ELSE CAN I TALK TO ABOUT THIS.

THAT IS ALL WELL AND GOOD ABOUT TALKING TO LOBBYISTS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ISSUE, BUT IF YOU DO THAT A LITTLE BIT, YOU STILL HAVE THIS ISSUE WHERE LOBBYISTS ARE OFTEN KIND OF SETTING THE AGENDA BY BEING THE KEY SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

>> Matt: THAT CREATES, YEAH, A DYNAMIC WHERE THEY ARE FRAMING THE ISSUE AS WELL AS BRINGING IT UP.

YOU'RE TALKING TO US FROM WASHINGTON D.C. WHERE THINGS WORK DIFFERENTLY IN THAT DYNAMIC.

THAT WASN'T PART OF THE ARTICLE, BUT DC AND CONGRESS, THERE IS FULL-TIME STAFF, COMMITTEE STAFF, THERE IS CERTAINLY LOBBYISTS BUT IT IS A DIFFERENT SYSTEM, IT SOUNDS LIKE.

>> Metzger: YES.

NO, DEFINITELY.

I MEAN, IT IS REALLY -- I THINK IT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT IS QUITE OVERLOOKED ACTUALLY ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S LEGISLATURE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT COMPENSATED.

THEY ARE -- IT IS NOT A FULL-TIME JOB -- IT IS NOT A FULL-TIME JOB ANYWAY, AND SO WHAT THAT LEADS TO IS JUST LEGISLATORS NOT HAVING NEARLY AS MUCH TIME TO THINK ABOUT THE ISSUES AND NOT HAVING THE SAME SUPPORT THAT LEGISLATORS CERTAINLY IN WASHINGTON HAVE.

>> Matt: WITHOUT THIS IN-PERSON BACK AND FORTH, ARE WE AT RISK OF PASSING LAWS THAT ARE FULL OF LOOPHOLES OR DIRECTLY RELATED TO A SPECIAL INTEREST BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE, WHO MAYBE ISN'T A PROFESSIONAL LOBBYIST, AND YOU SORT OF TALKED ABOUT THE TIERS OF LOBBYISTS, BUT THERE ARE SOMETHING LIKE 500 LOBBYISTS AND THE MINORITY OF THEM ARE REALLY KIND OF THE PROS.

HOW DOES THIS ALL WORK TOGETHER IN TERMS OF WHAT WE SEE COMING OUT THE OTHER END?

>> Metzger: WELL, I THINK IT IS A LITTLE BIT EARLY TO SAY, BUT I THINK THAT YOU'RE GETTING AT SOMETHING THAT DEFINITELY CAME UP IN MY REPORTING FOR THIS STORY WHICH WAS THE FACT THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THE LOBBYISTS THAT I SPOKE TO WASN'T THAT CONCERNED ABOUT THE VIRTUAL NATURE OF THE SESSION BECAUSE HE ALREADY KNEW ALL THE LEGISLATORS.

HE HAD RELATIONSHIPS WITH THEM.

HE HAD MOST OF THEIR PHONE NUMBERS.

AND, SO, YOU KNOW, SWITCHING FROM IN-PERSON INTERACTION TO HAVING TO TEXT AND CALL PEOPLE WASN'T GOING TO BE THAT BIG OF A DEAL FOR HIM.

BUT WHEN YOU'RE SPEAKING ABOUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC, ONE -- KIND OF THE FLIP SIDE OF THE FACT THAT LOBBYISTS HAVE A LOT OF ACCESS AT THE ROUNDHOUSE IS THAT THE PUBLIC ALSO HAS A LOT OF ACCESS TO THE ROUNDHOUSE.

AND, I THINK, LIKE I SAID, IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN BECAUSE WE HAVE COMMITTEE MEETINGS GOING ON NOW AND WE HAVE SORT OF VIDEOS OF THE FLOOR SESSIONS HAPPENING WHERE AT LEAST THE PUBLIC IS ABLE TO OBSERVE WHAT IS GOING ON, BUT I THINK IT IS AN OPEN QUESTION AS TO WHETHER THERE IS AN INCREASED PARTICIPATION, RIGHT?

THERE IS SORT OF A DIFFERENCE JUST BEING ABLE TO OBSERVE WHAT IS GOING ON VERSUS BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE INPUT.

AND CERTAINLY LOBBYISTS, THE ONES THAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING THERE FOR A LONG TIME AND HAVE RELATIONSHIPS IN PLACE ALREADY, ARE GOING TO HAVE AN EASIER TIME PURSUING THEIR AGENDAS THAN REGULAR OLD CITIZENS.

IT IS CERTAINLY A CONCERNING DYNAMIC BUT IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE BIT TOO EARLY TO DRAW CONCLUSIONS FROM IT.

>> Matt: ABSOLUTELY.

YOU MADE A GREAT POINT THAT IF I AM A PRO I HAVE THAT ACCESS BUILT IN.

IF I AM REPRESENTING MY LOCAL OUTDOORS GROUP OR MY SCHOOL BOARD, I DON'T HAVE THAT KNOW-HOW NECESSARILY OR EVEN THE PHONE NUMBERS, REALLY, TO KNOW THE ONES TO CALL AND WHETHER YOU'LL ACTUALLY GET AN ANSWER.

WE JUST HAVE ABOUT A COUPLE OF MINUTES LEFT HERE, BUT I WANTED TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT AN ISSUE KICKING AROUND FOR A WHILE WHICH IS DISCLOSURE FROM LOBBYISTS OF WHAT THEY ARE SPENDING.

SOME ADVOCATES WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALSO WHAT THEY ARE BEING PAID, WHAT ISSUES THEY ARE LOBBYING.

THAT SORT OF THING.

>> Metzger: YES, TALKED ABOUT SENATOR STEINBORN WHO IS THE BIG CHAMPION WHEN IT COMES TO DISCLOSURE MEASURES IS GOING TO BE DISCLOSING TWO BILLS.

ONE IS SORT OF OFFERING GREATER SPECIFICITY ON LOBBYISTS' REPORTING, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT WHICH SPECIFIC BILLS ARE BEING LOBBIED ON AND THAT IS HELPFUL IN PARTICULAR FOR, YOU KNOW, INDIVIDUALS LIKE MYSELF, JOURNALISTS, BUT ALSO ACTIVISTS, PEOPLE WHO ARE HIGHLY ENGAGED AND JUST MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC TO ACTUALLY GET A SENSE OF WHICH PARTICULAR PIECES OF LEGISLATION ARE BEING TARGETED BY A LOBBYIST.

BECAUSE IN THE STATUS QUO, WE DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION, RIGHT?

I MEAN, YOU MIGHT SEE EXPENDITURE REPORTS WHERE A LOBBYIST MIGHT LIST THAT THEY WERE DISCUSSING ISSUES WITH A LEGISLATOR BUT THAT IS WHAT LOBBYING IS.

THAT DOESN'T TELL US ANYTHING ABOUT THE SPECIFICS.

SO THAT WOULD BE A HUGE STEP FORWARD, I THINK, IN TERMS OF ALLOWING THE PUBLIC TO SORT OF PEAL BACK THE CURTAIN, IF YOU WILL, AND SEE WHAT DIFFERENT SPECIAL INTERESTS ARE SEEKING TO INFLUENCE IN TERMS OF PUBLIC POLICY.

THE OTHER MEASURE, OF COURSE, AS YOU MENTIONED, IS TO FULLY DISCLOSE ALL THAT LOBBYISTS' EMPLOYERS ARE SPENDING ON LOBBYING INCLUDING MOST CONTROVERSIALLY, AMONG LOBBYISTS ESPECIALLY, THE SALARIES OF LOBBYISTS.

THIS IS A MEASURE THAT AT LEAST BASED ON THE RESEARCH I HAVE DONE EXISTS IN A LOT OF DIFFERENT STATES.

SORT OF IRRESPECTIVE OF GEOGRAPHY OR ANY POLITICAL AFFILIATION.

THEY HAVE THESE SORTS OF MEASURES IN NEW YORK, CALIFORNIA, AND ALSO STATES LIKE TENNESSEE.

WHAT THAT REALLY TELLS US IS THE DEGREE OF INVESTMENT THAT DIFFERENT INTERESTS, SPECIAL INTERESTS, MIGHT HAVE IN A PARTICULAR ISSUE OR IN A PARTICULAR PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

A LOT OF THE REPORTING I DO, ASIDE FROM THIS, IS ON MONEY AND ON POLITICS.

WHEN YOU SEE A PARTICULAR GROUP, BE IT, YOU KNOW, INDUSTRY LINE GROUP, A GROUP LIKE PLANNED PARENTHOOD, SOME SORT OF PAC MAKES A HUGE INVESTMENT IN A PARTICULAR RACE, OBVIOUSLY THE AMOUNT OF MONEY SPENT IS INTERESTING AND WORTH REPORTING ON ITS OWN, BUT IT'S ALSO AN INDICATION OF THE LEVEL OF PRIORITY AND HOW IMPORTANT THIS IS TO THAT PARTICULAR INTEREST.

AND, SO, I THINK THE IDEA IS TO BRING THAT KIND OF CLARITY TO LOBBYING.

>> Matt: WE ARE OUT OF TIME BUT APPRECIATE YOUR REPORTING ON THIS AND WE KNOW THAT YOU ARE KEEPING AN EYE ON THE SESSION.

SO THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> Metzger: THANK YOU.

>> Gene: BY THE END OF LAST YEAR, NEW MEXICO HAD PAID OUT NEARLY 100 MILLION TO SMALL BUSINESSES AND SOME NONPROFITS.

IT IS PART OF THE PANDEMIC ASSISTANCE THAT WAS SUPPORTED BY REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS ALIKE.

MORGAN LEE OF THE ASSOCIATED PRESS LOOKED INTO WHO WAS GETTING THAT MONEY AND HE FOUND FIVE CURRENT OR FORMER LAWMAKERS AS WELL AS INTERESTING OTHER BUSINESSES.

NOW, JUST BEFORE THIS ON THE PROGRAM, WE HEARD ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S CITIZEN LEGISLATURE.

DOES HAVING AN UNPAID CITIZEN LEGISLATURE MEAN WE ARE GOING TO RUN INTO STICKY, ETHICAL ISSUES LIKE THIS?

>> Dede: YES, INDEED.

I THINK THIS IS A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE OF THAT.

WE DO HAVE SOME LAWS ABOUT THAT AND, OF COURSE, OUR FELLOW SENATOR PHIL GRIEGO ACTUALLY SERVED TIME FOR VOTING ON AN ISSUE THAT BENEFITED HIM FINANCIALLY.

SO, I HAVE A REAL QUESTION AS TO WHETHER, IF THE SENATORS THAT WERE MENTIONED HERE, DID VOTE ON THIS BILL AND THEN COLLECTED THE RELIEF FUNDS, WHICH, YOU KNOW, 47% OF THEM, OF THE APPLICANTS, GOT THE MONEY SO THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T GET THE MONEY WHILE THESE GUYS DID.

WAS THAT LEGAL?

IT MAY NOT BE LEGAL.

>> Gene: DAN, I SEE YOUR EYES BLAZING.

DID YOU HAVE A QUICK THOUGHT?

>> Dan: I THINK THIS IS THE PRICE YOU PAY FOR HAVING A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE.

I THINK, DID THEIR BUSINESS APPLY AND APPLY CORRECTLY.

THIS TYPICAL MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING.

IF SOMEBODY PULLED STRINGS AND GOT SOMETHING MORE THAN SOMEONE ELSE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN, OR DONE BY AN INSIDE DEAL, THAT IS A PROBLEM.

BUT I THINK IF YOU FILL OUT THE PAPERWORK, I THINK YOU SHOULDN'T GET ANY SPECIAL TREATMENT BEING A LEGISLATOR, BUT I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD COUNT AGAINST YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE A LEGISLATOR AND YOU OWN A BUSINESS AND YOU'RE TO KEEP PEOPLE EMPLOYED.

>> Gene: THE CURRENT SENATORS THAT GOT GRANTS, JOE CERVANTES, AND CONSTRUCTION COMPANY OWNER GEORGE MUNOS, WHO RECUSED THEMSELVES FROM THE VOTE, AS SENATOR FELDMAN JUST MENTIONED.

AND BILL SHARER WHO VOTED AGAINST THE MEASURE, THEN USED IT TO GET $15,000 FOR HIS DEBT COLLECTION BUSINESS.

ARE THESE PROBLEMATIC OR, AS DAN SAYS, MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING?

>> Eric: RECUSAL IS IMPORTANT, RIGHT?

I DO THINK THE HYPOCRISY IN SOME OF THE FOLKS WHO REALLY GRANDSTANDED ON THIS, RIGHT, ON THIS ISSUE AND WHATEVER THEIR IDEOLOGY WAS FOR FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE, BUT FOR THE SENATORS WHO WORKED AGAINST IT AND HAVE BEEN SUPER CRITICAL OF THE GOVERNOR AND OF THE IDEA THAT WE SHOULD BE HELPING FOLKS THROUGH THIS, AND THEN COLLECTING IT THEMSELVES, WITHOUT MENTIONING NAMES, I THINK THAT IS A TOUGH IRONIC HYPOCRITICAL PLACE TO BE.

THE OTHERS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, CERVANTES AND MUNOS ARE BOTH PRETTY SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSMEN.

SO, I THINK WHETHER OR NOT THEY COULD HAVE ABSORBED THIS IS FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO SAY BUT I DEFINITELY THINK THAT AT LEAST THEY RECUSED THEMSELVES.

AT LEAST THEY WEREN'T AGAINST THE IDEA, RIGHT, TO HELP A LOT OF FOLKS OUT AS OTHERS HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO NEED THIS, NOT JUST TO KEEP THE DOORS OPEN -- >> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

THE AP FOUND SIX BUSINESSES THAT GOT GRANTS AS THEY WERE SUING THE STATE FOR LOST BUSINESS.

HERE IS MY QUESTION.

I HEAR DAN'S POINT LOUD AND CLEAR.

JUST BECAUSE DOESN'T MEAN YOU SHOULD BE SHUT OUT, BUT I THINK THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH BREEDING CYNICISM OUT THERE, WHEN YOU HEAR THESE KIND OF STORIES.

WOULD YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> Justine: I WOULD AND I THINK PERHAPS THERE IS NOT ENOUGH SCRUTINY ON THAT.

THIS REMINDS ME OF THE RETIREMENT DEBATE THAT SO MANY MEMBERS AGREED IT WAS BLATANTLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL, AND THEN THEY TURNED AROUND AND ACCEPTED THE MONEY AND, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF BLUSTER.

IF YOU REALLY TAKE ISSUE WITH THE PROGRAM AND YOU THINK IT IS BAD POLICY, WELL, THEN, MAYBE YOU SHOULD RUN AN AMENDMENT TO EXEMPT LEGISLATORS FROM IT.

LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE, BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, YOU KNOW, THESE BUSINESS OWNERS ARE GOOD AT FEATHERING THEIR OWN NESTS.

AND DAN IS RIGHT, I DON'T THINK WORKERS WHO ARE EMPLOYED BY LEGISLATORS SHOULD BE PENALIZED JUST BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE THEY WORK.

I MEAN, THAT IS WHAT A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE LOOKS LIKE.

BUT I DIDN'T HEAR ANY TALK OF SAYING, YOU KNOW, YOU DEBATED THIS BILL, YOU KNOW THE IN'S AND OUT'S OF IT AND YOU KNOW THE PROGRAM.

MAYBE LEGISLATORS SHOULDN'T PARTICIPATE.

THAT WASN'T ON THE TABLE.

>> Gene: THERE IS AN EXAMPLE IN THE JOURNAL STORY ABOUT HINKLE FAMILY FUN CENTER, WE ALL LOVE THAT PLACE, AND ATTORNEY BLAIR DUNN IS REPRESENTING THEM.

THEY RECEIVED A $50,000 AWARD BUT THEY ARE SUING AT THE SAME TIME.

OR WERE SUING.

I FEEL FOR THE BUSINESSES.

THAT IS DIFFICULT.

THEY ARE INPATIENT, THEY ARE LOSING MONEY, THEY WANT SOMETHING TO HAPPEN BUT AT THE SAME TIME THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO HELP THEM SOMEHOW, SOME WAY.

ARE THOSE TWO THINGS RECONCILABLE?

CAN WE MEET IN THE MIDDLE HERE WHERE EVERYONE SAYS, IT IS A GREAT SYSTEM, I DON'T NEED TO SUE ANYBODY, I CAN JUST WAIT FOR MY MONEY.

HOW CAN WE MAKE THIS WORK FOR EVERYBODY EQUITABLY?

>> Dede: HYPOCRISY IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW, YOU KNOW.

IT MAY NOT BE DESIRABLE BUT IT'S NOT AGAINST THE LAW.

IN A WAY, I DON'T BLAME THE BUSINESS FOR APPLYING FOR THE GRANTS.

AND THEY GOT IT BECAUSE THEY MET THE CRITERIA, I GUESS, BUT, REMEMBER, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, OVER 50% OF THE PEOPLE WHO APPLIED WHO DIDN'T GET THE MONEY.

AND WHO MAY HAVE NEEDED IT JUST AS MUCH.

SO, THAT RAISES A QUESTION IN MY MIND AND I DO THINK THAT THE CITIZENS LEGISLATURE, WE NEED TO REALLY LOOK AT THAT AGAIN.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER THIS KIND OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST ISN'T JUST SO BUILT IN THAT IT JUST REDUCES CREDIBILITY IN THIS INSTITUTION AND THAT WE NEED TO START LOOKING AT REARRANGING THINGS FROM THE WAY THEY WERE SET UP IN 1912.

>> Gene: SOUNDS A LOT LIKE HOW WE ARE DEALING WITH LIQUOR OUT THERE FROM LAWS FROM 40 YEARS AGO, FOR GOSH SAKE.

ONE LAST QUESTION.

THE JOURNAL STORY POINTED OUT ANOTHER INTERESTING POINT HERE.

338,000 DOLLARS WENT TO 14 BUSINESSES ASSOCIATED WITH GERALD PETERS.

GERALD IS AN ART DEALER IN SANTA FE, BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME AND THAT INCLUDED THE RIO CHAMA STEAKHOUSE, WHICH I KNOW EVERY ONE OF YOU ON THIS SCREEN AS FREQUENTED DURING YOUR TIME IN THE LEGISLATURE.

I AM NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT MR. PETERS.

I AM NOT SAYING ANYTHING IS UNDERHANDED HERE, BUT SAME QUESTION, DOES THAT BREED CYNICISM WHEN YOU READ SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> Eric: WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE ASKED VOTERS IN THE STATE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THEY THINK ABOUT LIKE THE POLITICS AROUND SOME OF THESE ISSUES, RIGHT?

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ALWAYS POLLS OFF FROM THAT IS THIS IDEA THERE IS THIS KIND OF WELL-CONNECTED, INSIDER GROUP, POLITICALLY-CONNECTED GROUP WHO TEND TO GET ALL THE SPOILS OF GOVERNMENT.

AND THAT REALLY RESONATES ACROSS PARTISAN LINES, ACROSS REGIONAL LINES IN NEW MEXICO.

AVERAGE NEW MEXICANS WANTS TO FEEL LIKE THEY ARE TREATED FAIRLY AND THEY JUST REALLY DESPISE THIS IDEA THERE IS KIND OF AN IN KIND OF GROUP OF POLITICALLY-CONNECTED FOLKS WHO GET THE SPOILS NOT JUST HERE BUT IN TERMS OF CONTRACTS AND ALL THE OTHER STUFF.

I DO THINK IT REALLY -- IT REALLY SORT OF HIGHLIGHTS THE FACT THAT IT IS JUST DOESN'T LOOK GOOD, WHETHER GERALD PETERS HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT AND IT JUST DOESN'T LOOK GOOD.

>> Gene: WE ARE OUT OF TIME THIS WEEK.

GOOD TO SEE ALL OF YOU.

VERY MUCH SO.

WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK SOON.

>> IT IS HARD TO GET A READ ON WHERE MOST OF US ARE CONCERNING SCHOOLS REOPENING ON FEBRUARY 8.

I SUPPOSE IT IS A LOT LIKE PREGNANCY OR MARRIAGE.

THERE IS NEVER A PERFECT TIME FOR EITHER, AS ANY PARENT OR SPOUSE WILL TELL YOU, BUT YOU DO IT ANYWAY.

NOW, AS YOU HEARD EARLIER FROM OUR PANELISTS, THERE IS MUCH TO CONSIDER BUT FOR ME THE MENTAL HEALTH OF OUR KIDS MUST CARRY SOME WEIGHT IN THIS MATTER.

IT HAS BEEN A TOUGH YEAR ON EVERYONE, BUT FOR SOME OF OUR KIDS, THE STRESS OF IT ALL IS TOO BIG A LOAD TO CARRY FOR LONG.

LET'S KEEP THIS IN MIND.

DURING THE FIRST FEW DAYS AND WEEKS AFTER FEBRUARY 8, UNSEEN BY THE PUBLIC, TV CAMERAS OR ANYTHING ELSE, THERE WILL BE EXTRAORDINARY DISPLAYS OF COMPASSION, UNDERSTANDING AND, YES, GRIEF COUNSELING OF SORTS.

IT HAS BEEN A HARD YEAR FOR KIDS, FILLED WITH UNCERTAINTY AND OUR CHILDREN WILL BE WALKING IN THE DOOR CARRYING ALL OF IT.

THANK GOODNESS FOR TEACHERS.

SOMETIMES IT IS MORE THAN ABC'S.

THANKS FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY THE MCCUNE CHARITABLE FOUNDATION AND VIEWERS LIKE YOU.