>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS LEGISLATING AFTER DINNER AND A SHOW, HOW LOBBYISTS SPENT THEIR MONEY ON LAWMAKERS DURING THIS YEAR'S LEGISLATIVE SESSION AND -- >> Martin: IN WORST CASE  SCENARIO, THERE MAY NOT BE A FOREST DUE TO THE UNHEALTHY  NATURE OF IT RIGHT NOW.

SO IF WE HAD A FIRE WE COULD  LOSE THIS ENTIRE MOUNTAIN.

>> Gene: THE GROWING FIRE  HAZARD EAST OF ALBUQUERQUE.

OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS ASKS  TWO EXPERTS ABOUT THE DANGER LURKING IN THE SANDIA MOUNTAINS.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

AN INDEPENDENT COMMISSION HAS  REACHED AN AGREEMENT ON A PROPOSED SALARY HIKE FOR  ALBUQUERQUE'S MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL.

IN ABOUT 40 MINUTES I ASK THE  PANELISTS IF THE COMMISSION MADE THE CORRECT DECISION.

THIS YEAR'S LEGISLATIVE SESSION WAS CAPPED OFF WITH A  9.6 BILLION-DOLLAR BUDGET BILL, A BALLOONING SPENDING  PLAN, THANKS IN PART TO A GLUT OF OIL AND GAS PRODUCTION.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES I'LL ASK OUR LINE OPINION PANEL TO  CONSIDER THE LEGISLATION'S RELATIONSHIP WITH OIL AND GAS,  AND WHETHER THE STATE CAN HOLD THIS INDUSTRY ACCOUNTABLE.

BUT, FIRST, WE TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE STATE'S MORE  THAN 600 REGISTERED LOBBYISTS AND ASK HOW EFFORTS TO WINE  AND DINE LAWMAKERS SWAYED THIS YEAR'S 60-DAY SESSION AT THE  ROUNDHOUSE.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO THE LINE.

WELCOME TO THE LINE OPINION  PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE ARE HAPPY TO BE JOINED IN  PERSON BY FORMER NEW MEXICO STATE SENATOR DEDE FELDMAN, SHE IS RIGHT THERE.

ANDY LYMAN IS ACROSS THE TABLE.

HE IS STAFF WRITER AT THE SANTA FE REPORTER AND MERRITT ALLEN IS BACK WITH US AT VOX  OPTIMA PUBLIC RELATIONS.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

WE START THIS WEEK WITH THE INFLUENCE OF LOBBYING IN THE  STATE LEGISLATURE.

YOU ALL KNOW THE HISTORIC  RESTAURANT EL FAROL IN SANTA FE.

GREAT PLACE.

HIGH END NEW MEXICO THREE COURSE MEALS PRIVATE FLAMENCO SHOWS.

IT IS AN EXPERIENCE LIKE NO OTHER IN THE STATE'S CAPITOL  CITY AND IF YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE COMMERCE AND  ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE DURING THIS YEAR'S SESSION,  ONE OF THE STATE'S ARMY OF LOBBYISTS WOULD HAVE PICKED UP  THE TAB FOR THE ENTIRE EVENING.

THAT IS ACCORDING TO A STORY PUBLISHED IN THE ALBUQUERQUE  JOURNAL LAST WEEK REVEALING LOBBYISTS AND THEIR EMPLOYERS  SPENT ABOUT $285,000 DURING THIS YEAR'S 66-DAY SESSION.

NOW, THE LIST INCLUDES THE NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION,  PHARMACEUTICAL CARE MANAGEMENT ASSOCIATION, SKI NEW MEXICO AND THE ANIMAL PROTECTION VOTERS LOBBYIST GROUP, AS WELL.

QUITE THE VARIETY THERE.

BUT IT DOESN'T EVEN BEGIN TO PAINT THE FULL PICTURE.

WITH MORE DETAILED FILINGS REQUIRED BY LOBBYISTS IN MAY,  WE WILL FIND OUT.

AND, SENATOR, WHEN YOU  CONSIDER THE GOALS THE GOVERNOR SET AT THE BEGINNING  OF THE SESSION AND LOOK AT WHAT PASSED AND WHAT DIDN'T,  WHAT SWAY DID LOBBYING -- IT'S HARD TO PIN IT DOWN, BUT WHAT  SWAY DID IT HAVE IN THIS YEAR'S SESSION IN YOUR GUT.

WAS IT GREATER THAN YOUR MEMORY?

WAS IT SOMETHING BEYOND THE BEYOND THIS YEAR?

ABOUT NORMAL?

WHAT WAS YOUR SENSE OF IT?

>> Dede: WELL, $285,000 IS A LITTLE BIT LOWER THAN THE  USUAL AMOUNT THAT IS SPENT DURING A LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED WHEN THE MAY REPORT IS IN, IF IT  WILL BE LIKE $400,000, BUT WE ARE JUST COMING OUT OF COVID  AND THE LOBBYISTS ARE JUST GETTING WARMED UP, BUT THAT  SAID, I THINK THEY STILL HAD A LOT OF INFLUENCE, PARTICULARLY  THE OIL AND GAS LOBBYISTS THIS YEAR, THAT ARE OUT IN FORCE  ANY TIME THERE IS A THREATENED REGULATION OR ENFORCEMENT  OR -- AND THERE WAS SEVERAL BILLS THIS YEAR THAT WOULD  HAVE CHANGED THE ANTIQUATED, IN MY POINT OF VIEW, SYSTEM OF  ROYALTIES FOR OIL AND GAS AND ALSO REGULATION FOR AND  ENFORCEMENT OF THE METHANE RULES.

SO THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY, VERY POWERFUL.

THEY FIELD MAYBE 100 LOBBYISTS.

THAT IS ALMOST A ONE TO ONE ON -- IT IS NOT JUST THE BIG  COMPANIES.

IT IS THE DRILLERS.

IT IS THE INDEPENDENTS.

IT IS THE GAS STATIONS.

SO, THEY HAD AN EFFECT ON KILLING A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL  LEGISLATION THIS YEAR.

AND, OF COURSE, YOU HAD THE  ALCOHOL LOBBYISTS THIS YEAR, TOO, WHO WERE VERY EFFECTIVE  IN KILLING A REASONABLE ALCOHOL TAX WHICH IS ALSO LONG OVERDUE.

>> Gene: LET ME TAKE IT ACROSS THE TABLE HERE TO ANDY FOR A QUICK POINT.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FOLKS MIGHT FIND INTERESTING, NEW MEXICO HAS MORE THAN 600 REGISTERED LOBBYISTS, BOUNCING NUMBERS AROUND, BUT ONLY REQUIRES THEM TO REPORT  SPENDING IF IT EXCEEDS $500, WHICH SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN AN  OKAY THRESHOLD THREE OR FOUR, FIVE YEARS AGO, BUT CLEARLY WE  HAVE A LOT MORE MONEY BEING SPENT.

IS OUR LAWS BEHIND THE FINANCES HERE?

>> Andy: I GUESS IT COULD BE.

I GUESS IT DOESN'T REALLY  MATTER WHERE YOU PUT THE THRESHOLD.

THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE -- I MEAN, LOBBYISTS KNOW HOW  TO -- EVERYONE THAT HAS BEEN UP IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR  YEARS KNOWS HOW TO MANEUVER THOSE THINGS.

IT COULD BE LOWER, BUT I AM SURE IF IT IS LOWER AT SOME  POINT WE ARE GOING TO SAY, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE WE ARE  STILL MISSING OUT ON THE OTHER THINGS.

YOU CAN SORT NICKEL AND DIME THINGS AS MUCH AS YOU WANT.

>> Gene: MERRITT, NEW MEXICO HAS A LONG HISTORY, AS YOU KNOW, OF BACK ROOM LOBBYING.

COME ON NOW.

IN 2015 THE CENTER FOR PUBLIC INTEGRITY GAVE THE STATE AN F  GRADE, AS A REMINDER FOLKS, FOR OUR LOBBYING DISCLOSURE AND THIS YEAR TWO BILLS WERE INTRODUCED, AS SENATOR  MENTIONED.

SENATE BILL 218 WOULD HAVE  REQUIRED LOBBYISTS TO DISCLOSE WHAT SPECIFIC PIECES OF  LEGISLATION THEY ARE LOBBYING FOR OR AGAINST.

WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH THAT?

>> Merritt: I HAVE NO PROBLEM  WITH THAT, EXACTLY.

AND I DON'T KNOW THAT  LOBBYISTS ARE PARTICULARLY AGAINST THAT EXCEPT WE ARE  JUST NOT GREAT AT PAPERWORK IN THIS STATE ANYWAY.

THAT IS A LEVEL OF FIDELITY WE ARE NOT INTO.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO NOTE ON A 10 BILLION-DOLLAR BUDGET,  285,000 DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT MUCH.

I MEAN, THAT SEEMS KIND OF LIKE SMALL STEAKS IN WHAT WE  ARE LOOKING AT.

SO, I AM NOT -- I AM NOT  WILDLY UPSET ABOUT THAT AND JUST THE NATURE OF HAVING  LOBBYISTS REGISTER IS A FORM OF REGULATION.

I MEAN IT IS NOT LIKE -- IT IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN THE  CEO OF A COMPANY TAKING SOMEONE OUT.

THAT COULD BE INTERPRETED AS A DIRECT SORT OF BRIBE, PERHAPS.

I MEAN AT LEAST THIS IS SOME WAY OF FORMALIZING THE  PROCESS, AND CERTAINLY ANY CITIZEN CAN GO IN THE  ROUNDHOUSE AND GO TALK TO THE LEGISLATORS.

IT IS JUST THE COMPLEXITY OF LEGISLATION AND PROCESS AND  HOW EVERYTHING WORKS, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A WAY TO GET AN  EXPERT, SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS THE PROCESS,  SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS WHO IS ON WHAT COMMITTEE, HOW THEY  NEED A REAL EXPERT IN THE PROCESS TO GO DO THAT.

I DON'T THINK IT IS WRONG FOR SOMEONE WHO IS AN EXPERT IN  THE PROCESS TO ASK THEM TO PUT MORE DOCUMENTATION INTO WHAT  BILLS THEY ARE SUPPORTING.

AND I THINK THIS IS ALL  ABSOLUTELY FAIR AND REASONABLE AND IN MANY STATES,  PARTICULARLY IN THE MIDWEST, YOU CAN'T EVEN GIVE A GIFT.

YOU CAN'T TAKE SOMEONE OUT FOR DINNER.

THEY HAVE GONE A LOT FURTHER THAN THIS.

SO, I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT AND NOT A  CONTROVERSIAL STEP.

>> Gene: SENATOR, WHAT DID YOU  MAKE OF THE -- NOT TO PICK ON ANY PARTICULAR GROUP.

IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO LOBBY.

IT IS OUR SYSTEM.

SO THIS IS NOT A NEGATIVE WHEN I SAY THESE THINGS, BUT  $28,000 WORTH OF SKI PASSES FROM SKI NEW MEXICO, THAT IS A NONPROFIT TRADE GROUP, GIVEN TO THE GOVERNOR AND ALL 112  LEGISLATORS.

WHAT DOES THAT DO?

DOES SKI NEW MEXICO HAVE A PROBLEM THAT NEEDS SOME KIND OF POLICY FIX THAT I AM UNAWARE OF?

WHY DO WE SET THESE PEOPLE THIS WAY?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND IT.

>> Dede: I WAS ALWAYS PUZZLED BY THAT TOO.

BECAUSE RARELY IS THERE AN ISSUE HAVING TO DO WITH  SKIING THAT COMES BEFORE THE LEGISLATURE, BUT THE LOBBYISTS  FOR THE SKI INDUSTRY ARE ALSO THE LOBBYISTS FOR FIVE OTHER  INDUSTRIES, SO THEY ARE BUYING A RELATIONSHIP, REALLY.

AND THAT IS WHAT THAT IS ABOUT.

I HAVE TO SAY I AGREE THAT 285,000 DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT  MUCH IN EXPENDITURES BUT REMEMBER THAT IS A DROP IN THE  BUCKET COMPARED TO WHAT LOBBYISTS SPEND ON CAMPAIGN  CONTRIBUTIONS.

CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTIONS IS  WHERE THE REAL MONEY IS AND WHERE THE REAL INFLUENCE IS  FOR LOBBYISTS.

WE DO INCIDENTALLY HAVE A GIFT  ACT IN NEW MEXICO.

IT WAS PASSED IN 2007 BUT IT IS STILL PRETTY GENEROUS.

YOU HAVE A LIMIT FOR A  RESTRICTED DONOR, WHAT THEY CALL A RESTRICTED DONOR, CAN  GIVE NO MORE THAN $250 WORTH OF GIFTS TO AN INDIVIDUAL  EMPLOYEE OF THE STATE.

IN ONE YEAR.

BUT IN AGGREGATE THEY CAN GIVE $1000.

$1000 PER PERSON IS THE LIMIT FOR RESTRICTED DONORS.

>> Gene: LET ME MAKE A POINT HERE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND SPOKE WITH A CO-SPONSOR OF THAT MENTIONED SENATE BILL  217, STATE SENATOR GREG SCHMEDES DURING THE SESSION  AND ASKED HIM ABOUT A CONCERN WE HAVE HEARD THAT IT WOULD BE  TOO DIFFICULT TO REPORT THOSE ANSWERS IN A TIMELY AND  EFFICIENT MANNER.

>> Schmedes: IT WOULD HELP  LEGISLATORS KNOW WHERE THE SPECIAL INTEREST IS.

IS IT OUT OF STATE?

IS IT INSTATE?

WHICH INDUSTRIES ARE PUSHING IT?

WHICH INDUSTRIES ARE AGAINST IT AND IT WOULD ALLOW THE  PUBLIC TO KNOW.

IT IS NOT DIFFICULT.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE ALREADY HAS ALL THE  SOFTWARE TO TRACK ALL OF OUR FINANCIAL THINGS AND ALL THOSE  MATTERS, SO IT IS REALLY NOT TOO MUCH OF A LIFT, I DON'T  THINK.

>> Gene: MERRITT, I GOT TO ASK  YOU, AFTER HEARING THAT RESPONSE AND SEEING THE  BIPARTISAN CO-SPONSORS ON THESE BILLS,   WHAT IS DRIVING THE OPPOSITION HERE?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON.

MR. SCHMEDES MAKES A GOOD POINT, IT IS NOT DIFFICULT.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE ALREADY HAS ALL THE  SOFTWARE TO TRACK ALL THESE FINANCES.

HE MAKES THE ULTIMATE POINT.

>> Merritt: AND NO MORE WORK  FOR THE LEGISLATORS SO, OF COURSE, WHY WOULD THEY OPPOSE IT?

>> Gene: EXACTLY.

>> Merritt: I THINK THERE IS NOT A GREAT HISTORY OF  TRANSPARENCY IN OUR LEGISLATURE.

AND JUST TRYING TO GET SOME TRANSPARENCY INTO ETHICS  TRANSACTIONS AS WE SAW LAST YEAR, THE TRANSPARENCY INTO  THE REDISTRICTING PROCESS.

THERE ARE SOME OLD AND WRONG  TRADITIONS IN OUR LEGISLATURE THAT NEED TO CHANGE AND I  THINK IT IS JUST CHANGING THE WAY WE DO BUSINESS AND  BECOMING TRULY TRANSPARENT.

I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE, WHEN  I HEAR OFTENTIMES A NEW MEXICO POLITICIAN TALKING ABOUT TRANSPARENCY, I KNOW IMMEDIATELY WHATEVER THEY ARE  TALKING ABOUT WILL NEVER SEE THE LIGHT OF FREAKING DAY.

>> Gene: EXACTLY RIGHT.

LET ME ASK ANDY ABOUT THIS  HOUSE BILL 5.

I'LL TELL YOU WHAT IT IS.

UPDATED THE STATE'S GOVERNMENTAL FOLKS CONDUCT ACT  SPECIFYING SEXUAL ACTS COULD NOT BE TRADED IN EXCHANGE FOR  A VOTE OR OTHER OFFICIAL FAVORS.

THE HOUSE PASSED THE BILL BUT INTERESTINGLY IT NEVER GOT A  HEARING IN THE SENATE JUDICIARY.

IT IS SO BIZARRE TO ME.

IN THEORY THIS BILL WOULD HAVE  HELPED BOTH LEGISLATORS AND LOBBYISTS FEEL SAFER.

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> Andy: WELL, A COUPLE OF THINGS.

I AM JUST SURPRISED THAT THAT IS A THING THAT WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO LAWMAKERS, WHAT NOT  TO DO, BUT THAT SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE GETS HEAT,  SOMETIMES RIGHTFULLY SO, THAT THINGS GET STALLED THERE.

THERE WAS A NUMBER OF BILLS ON A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT TOPICS  THAT GOT STALLED THERE.

YOU ALSO HAVE TO LOOK AT HOW  LONG IT TOOK TO GET TO THAT JUDICIARY COMMITTEE.

THE CHAIRMAN, JOE CERVANTES, IS ALWAYS PRETTY QUICK TO SAY,  I GOT THIS 10 DAYS BEFORE THE SESSION WAS OVER.

I HAD A LIST OF BILLS THAT CAME IN BEFORE.

HE IS ALSO NOT ONE TO NECESSARILY DO FAVORS FOR THE  GOVERNOR, LET'S SAY.

I THINK THAT YOU COULD  PROBABLY CRITICIZE HIM FOR NOT PICKING THIS UP, BUT IF IT IS  NOT A PRIORITY FOR HIM AND IT CAME IN, I THINK IT WAS 10  DAYS BEFORE THE SESSION WAS OVER, THEN, SOMETIMES THAT IS  THE WAY IT WORKS.

>> Gene: INTERESTING WRINKLE,  SENATOR, IS THAT SENATOR IVEY-SOTO GETS ON THE BOARD OF  THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE WAS ACCUSED LAST YEAR OF  SEXUALLY HARASSING AND ASSAULTING A LOBBYIST.

I GOT TO WONDER IF THIS THING WAS DRUG SLOW SO SENATOR  IVEY-SOTO DIDN'T HAVE TO FACE ALL THIS AGAIN.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THAT.

I AM INTERESTED.

>> Dede: THAT BILL I THINK WAS MISCHARACTERIZED BY THE MEDIA  AND ALSO BY THE SPONSORS TO BE ABOUT SEXUAL HARASSMENT RATHER THAN WHAT IT REALLY WAS, WAS OVERHAUL OF THE GOVERNMENTAL  CONDUCT ACT.

THAT IS NOT QUITE SO SEXY AND  SO MAYBE IT WOULDN'T HAVE GARNERED SO MUCH SUPPORT BUT  IT WAS IMPORTANT IN THE WAKE OF A COURT DECISION THAT CAME  DOWN LAST YEAR WHICH BASICALLY SAID THAT THE GOVERNMENTAL  CONDUCT ACT WAS BASICALLY A SUGGESTION AND COULD NOT BE  ENFORCED WITHOUT CERTAIN CHANGES.

AND SO THESE ARE THE CERTAIN CHANGES AND IT IS REALLY  UNFORTUNATE THAT THEY DID NOT GET PASSED.

AND PERHAPS IT WAS BECAUSE THE BILL HAD BEEN MISCHARACTERIZED  AND THERE WAS A RELUCTANCE ON THE PART OF THE COMMITTEE TO  HEAR IT FOR THAT REASON.

OR PERHAPS IT IS BECAUSE OF  WHAT ANDY IS SAYING, THE GENERAL BACKLOG.

>> Gene: RIGHT.

THAT IS PROBABLY PART OF IT AS WELL.

WE WILL HAVE TO GET TO THAT NEXT TIME AROUND.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL BE BACK IN A LITTLE OVER 10 MINUTES FOR ANOTHER DISCUSSION ON OIL AND GAS  REGULATIONS AS EPA ANNOUNCES MILLIONS IN FINES OVER METHANE  POLLUTION.

>> Ramirez: IF YOUNG PEOPLE HAD ACCESS TO FREE TRANSIT IT WOULD IMPACT ACCESS TO EDUCATION.

I REMEMBER A STORY.

THERE WAS A STORY WE MET A YOUNG PERSON WHO WAS A FRESHMAN AT HIGHLAND HIGH SCHOOL.

100 TARDIES AND HE WAS ON THE VERGE OF BEING SUSPENDED FROM HIGHLAND.

NO ONE AT HIGHLAND HAD EVER  ASKED HIM WHAT IS MAKING YOU TARDY?

AND IT IS BECAUSE HE HAD TO GET TWO BUSES TO GO TO SCHOOL  AND BE IN THE SCHOOL OF CHOICE AND BE AT HIGHLAND.

ACCESS TO EDUCATION, ACCESS TO EMPLOYMENT.

WOULD IT BE EASIER TO FIND AND KEEP A JOB IF YOU HAD FREE  TRANSIT?

97% OF BOYS AND YOUNG MEN OF  COLOR TOLD US ABSOLUTELY YES.

>> Gene: THE SANDIA MOUNTAINS  HAVE BEEN GETTING PLENTY OF RAIN AND SNOW LATELY BUT THE  FORESTS HAVE LONG BEEN VULNERABLE TO DROUGHT AND  INSECT OUTBREAKS.

THAT'S IN PART BECAUSE THE  FORESTS HAVE BECOME TOO CROWDED.

AS WE LEARN ON OUR LAND THIS WEEK, FORESTS AREN'T SUPPOSED  TO BE AS DENSE AS THEY HAVE BECOME OVER THE LAST CENTURY  AND ALL THOSE PLACES COVERED WITH DEAD AND DRIED OUT TREES  PRESENT A HUGE FIRE DANGER FOR THE MOUNTAINS AND EVERYONE WHO  RELIES ON THEM.

>> Laura: IF YOU KNOW  ALBUQUERQUE, YOU KNOW THE SANDIAS.

THEY RISE ABOVE THE EAST SIDE OF THE CITY, GRANITE MOUNTAINS  TOPPED WITH LIMESTONE THAT IGNITE TO PINK EVERY SUNSET.

THE SANDIAS HOLD WILDERNESS, SPRINGS, RECREATION TRAILS,  WILDLIFE.

BUT THE FORESTS HERE ARE INCREASINGLY VULNERABLE TO  DROUGHT, INSECT OUTBREAKS AND FIRE.

IN A WORLD THAT IS WARMING, WARMING ALL THE TIME, THE  SANDIAS ARE DRYING AND THEY ARE TELLING US TO PAY  ATTENTION.

>> Johnson: ON THE EAST SIDE  OF THE SANDIAS AND IN CIBOLA NATIONAL FOREST AND BASICALLY  THE SOUTHWEST IN GENERAL, WE HAVE AREAS OF FOREST THAT  ACTUALLY RESEMBLE HISTORIC CONDITIONS BUT ON A WHOLE, WE  HAVE DENSITY LEVELS OF TREES THAT WE JUST HAVEN'T SEEN AND  SO WITH THAT DENSITY LEVEL, THE FOREST IS REALLY IN AN  UNHEALTHY SPOT.

>> Laura: THESE FORESTS LOOKED  DIFFERENT 150 YEARS AGO.

BEFORE WIDESPREAD GRAZING,  BEFORE A CENTURY OF FIRE SUPPRESSION BY THE FEDERAL  GOVERNMENT AND BEFORE GREEN HOUSE GAS EMISSIONS FIRED UP  OUR PLANET'S ATMOSPHERE.

>> Johnson: IF YOU GO BACK  ALMOST ONLY 150 YEARS, WHAT YOU WOULD HAVE SEEN WAS  VARIABLE TREES AND VARYING DENSITY SO YOU WOULD GET INTO  SOME AREAS THAT WERE REALLY PARK LIKE, BIG OPEN GROWN  TREES WITH SOME UNDERBRUSH AND YOUNGER TREES GOING IN AND YOU  COULD GO JUST OVER THE NEXT RIDGE AND IT COULD BE A REALLY  THICK, DENSE FOREST OF PONDEROSA PINE.

IT WAS MORE VARYING 150 YEARS AGO COMPARED TO WHERE IT IS  NOW WHERE WE ARE JUST SEEING REALLY DENSE FOREST STANDS  ACROSS THE LANDSCAPE.

>> Laura: JOHNSON SAYS TO  THINK OF THE FOREST LIKE A PUNCH BOWL FULL OF STRAWS.

IN THE PAST THERE WERE FEWER TREES, FEWER STRAWS SUCKING UP WATER.

EACH TREE GOT TO TAKE A BIG DRINK.

THEY COULD STRETCH AND GROW STRONG.

IN A DENSE FOREST, THERE ARE MORE STRAWS.

EACH TREE GETS LESS WATER AND THERE IS LESS RESILIENCE AND NOW, OF COURSE, THERE IS  ANOTHER PROBLEM, LESS WATER IN THE BOWL.

>> Martin: THINGS ARE GETTING HOTTER AND DRYER.

YOU KNOW, THE SNOW PACK IS MUCH MORE VARIABLE.

IT IS NOT AS RELIABLE YEAR TO YEAR.

YOU KNOW, WE HAVE BEEN IN DROUGHT CONDITIONS.

YOU KNOW, THESE TYPES OF CONDITIONS REALLY STRESS OUT  TREES AND THAT MAKES THEM, OF COURSE, MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO  INSECTS, DISEASES AND WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THAT HERE IN THE  LAST FIVE, 10 YEARS ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE SANDIA MOUNTAINS.

>> Laura: IN THE LAST DECADE, INSECTS LIKE THE DOUGLAS FIR MOTH AND THE FIR ENGRAVER HAVE  BOOMED IN THE SANDIAS.

AND THEIR SIGNS ARE EVERYWHERE.

>> Martin: THEY HAVE CAUSED A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MORTALITY.

THERE IS THAT ELEVATIONAL BAND OF ABOUT 1 TO 2,000 FEET WHERE  WE HAVE SEEN ALL THAT DAMAGE AND IT HAS PROBABLY COST ABOUT  50% MORTALITY OF THE TREES THERE.

AS YOU ARE DRIVING UP SANDIA CREST HIGHWAY, YOU LOOK AROUND  AND YOU SEE TREES THAT ARE EITHER TURNING BROWN OR ARE  DEAD AND HAVE LOST NEEDLES ALREADY.

THAT IS ALMOST ENTIRELY THE RESULT OF THE DOUGLAS FIR  TUSSOCK MOTH AND THE FIR ENGRAVER WORKING HAND IN HAND,  TAG TEAMING, IF YOU WILL.

COMPOUND THAT WITH DROUGHT  CONDITIONS AND IT IS JUST REALLY NOT A VERY GOOD COMBINATION.

>> Laura: THAT COMBINATION WE KNOW IS EXPLOSIVE FOR FORESTS.

>> Martin: IF THERE WERE A  FIRE TO OCCUR ON THE EAST SIDE OF THE SANDIAS, I WOULD EXPECT  WE COULD SEE SOME PRETTY SEVERE FIRE CONDITIONS,  SIMILAR TO FIRES THAT HAVE HAPPENED TO THE SOUTH OF US IN  THE MANZANO MOUNTAINS ALSO ON THE CIBOLA NATIONAL FOREST.

MOST RECENTLY THE DOG HEAD FIRE IN 2016.

WE HAD THE TRIGO, BIG SPRINGS AND OJO PEAK FIRES.

AND THOSE TEND TO START NEAR THE CREST.

THEY ARE WIND DRIVEN AND THEY WORK THEIR WAY DOWNHILL AT  REAL RAPID PACES AND DID A LOT OF DAMAGE.

I GUESS YOU COULD EXPECT KIND OF THE SAME THING HERE.

IN WORST CASE SCENARIOS, THERE MAY NOT BE A FOREST HERE DUE  TO THE UNHEALTHY NATURE OF IT RIGHT NOW.

SO WITH A FIRE WE COULD LOSE THIS ENTIRE MOUNTAIN.

IF CONDITIONS ARE CONDUCIVE AND PERFECT TO CARRY FIRE, WE  COULD LOSE THIS ENTIRE MOUNTAIN IN A MATTER OF HOURS TO DAYS.

HOWEVER, IF WE CONTINUE TO LOOK FOR FUNDING AND OPPORTUNITIES TO ACTIVELY  MANAGE THE FUEL CONDITIONS ON THIS MOUNTAIN, IN 20 YEARS,  THE FOREST, THERE IS A GOOD CHANCE IT WILL STILL BE HERE.

WE MAY HAVE SMALL PATCHES THAT MAY HAVE BURNED AND AREAS THAT  WE DID PRESCRIBED FIRES IN, BUT IF WE ACTIVELY GO IN AND  REMOVE TREES AND THIN THE FOREST AND IT MORE RESILIENT,  IN 20 YEARS TO 100 YEARS, THIS FOREST COULD BE AS HEALTHY AS EVER.

>> Laura: IN TODAY'S WARMER WORLD, THE CHOICES WE MAKE, THE SIGNS WE PAY ATTENTION TO, THEY MATTER MORE THAN EVER.

FOR OUR LAND AND NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, I AM LAURA PASKUS.

>> Gene: LET'S WELCOME BACK OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR THE WEEK.

ANOTHER LEGISLATIVE SESSION  HAS COME AND GONE AND WITH IT FEW TO ZERO NEW STANDARDS OR  REGULATIONS ON THE FOSSIL FUEL INDUSTRY.

SENATE BILL 418 WHICH WOULD HAVE UPDATED THE STATE'S OIL  AND GAS ACT TO ENSURE PUBLIC SAFETY HEALTH MEASURES FOR  NEARBY COMMUNITIES, THAT DIED IN COMMITTEE.

SENATE BILL 164 MET SIMILAR FATE.

THAT WOULD HAVE INCREASED ROYALTY RATES ON OIL AND GAS  PRODUCED ON STATE LAND FROM 20% TO 25%.

WHILE REQUIRING OPERATORS TO PAY ROYALTIES ON OIL AND GAS  LEASES DURING PRODUCTION.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

MEANWHILE BOTH STATE DEPARTMENTS PASSED WITH  OVERSEEING OIL AND GAS WERE SET TO RECEIVE A FUNDING BOOST  IN THE BUDGET, 21% FOR THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT, AND A  NEAR 15% BUMP FOR THE ENERGY MINERALS AND NATURAL RESOURCES  DEPARTMENT.

NOW, ANDY,   WHEN YOU CONSIDER THE RECORD BREAKING  9.6 BILLION DOLLAR BUDGET BILL SENT TO THE GOVERNOR, IT IS  IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER ACCORDING TO THIS  LEGISLATURE'S WEBSITE, OIL AND GAS, DIRECT AND INDIRECT  REVENUE, MAKE UP 25 TO 30% OF THE STATE'S INCOME.

SIMPLY PUT IT IS A BIT OF A BALANCING ACT.

WITH THE FAILURE OF THOSE REGULATORY BILLS I MENTIONED,  ARE WE KEEPING THAT BALANCE?

HAVE OIL AND GAS FOLKS COME  OUT VERY MUCH AHEAD HERE OR IS OUR ABILITY TO WATCH THEM OKAY?

>> Andy: I GUESS IT DEPENDS ON YOUR PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT?

I AM SURE THE OIL AND GAS  WOULD ARGUE DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS I  SEE IN A LOT OF THE COVERAGE IS LACK OF ENFORCEMENT.

SO YOU CAN ADD THESE REGULATIONS.

WE HAVE REGULATIONS BUT WHAT HAPPENS IF THEY VIOLATE THEM?

APPARENTLY NOTHING OR NOT MUCH.

SO, I MEAN, I GUESS IT IS PROBABLY NOT A FULL WIN FOR  THE OIL AND GAS INDUSTRY WHEN THE BIGGEST WIN IS LACK OF  ENFORCEMENT.

>> Gene: SENATOR, FOR  PERSPECTIVE, YOU HAVE BEEN AT THIS A LONG TIME.

WATCHING THESE PEOPLE AND COMING UP WITH LEGISLATION.

DO THEY GET AWAY WITH ONE THIS SESSION?

THAT MIGHT BE A LITTLE STRONG.

THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS FOLKS  EXPECTED TO HAPPEN WITH ENVIRONMENTAL LEGISLATION,  JUST FLAT OUT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

>> Dede: THAT IS RIGHT AND THE  GOVERNOR IS GOING TO FALL SHORT OF HER GOAL IN TERMS OF  CURTAILING AIR BORN EMISSIONS BY 2030 UNLESS THERE IS SOME  MORE ENFORCEMENT OF THE METHANE RULE AND OTHER RULES  BUT THE ONLY ENFORCEMENT NOW IS THE FEDS.

AND WHEN THE FEDS FIND SOMEBODY LIKE MATADOR OR  SETTLE WITH MATADOR, THEY GET THE MONEY.

WE GET A VERY SMALL PORTION, I THINK, OF THAT 6.5 MILLION  SETTLEMENT THAT HAPPENED THIS WEEK.

NEW MEXICO GOT 1.3.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT WE ARE IN TROUBLE.

THERE WAS A BIG SNAFU IN THOSE  PERCENTAGE INCREASES THAT YOU SAID THAT THE ENVIRONMENT AND  ENERGY AND MINERAL DEPARTMENT WERE GOING TO GET BECAUSE IF  YOU READ THE FINE -- WHEN THEY FINALLY READ THE FINE PRINT,  MOST OF THAT HAD TO GO INTO SALARY INCREASES.

6%, THE 6% INCREASE THAT ALL STATE EMPLOYEES GOT.

SO THAT DID NOT ALLOW THEM TO HIRE THE NUMBER OF REGULATORS,  THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE JUST TO WATCH OVER THESE FOLKS THAT  THEY NEED.

WE HAVE FAR FEWER PEOPLE IN  EITHER OF THOSE DEPARTMENTS THAN OTHER STATES AND IT SHOWS  AND BASICALLY AT THE END OF THE SESSION HERE, THE  ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT HEAD, KENNEY, I THINK HIS NAME IS,  SAID, BASICALLY ANYBODY -- WE ARE GOING TO RELY ON PEOPLE  NOW, ANYBODY THAT CAN FLY OVER AND SEE THESE PLUMES, THEN  THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE THESE FOLKS TO COURT BECAUSE  BASICALLY THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH  PEOPLE AND THAT IS A BAD SITUATION IN NEW MEXICO.

>> Gene: INTERESTING.

MERRITT, ON SENATOR'S POINT,  QUESTIONING HOW THE STATE'S OIL CONSERVATION DIVISION WAS  PROSECUTING VIOLATORS OF THE ACT, CAPITAL AND MAIN WERE  TOLD BY A SPOKESPERSON, "THERE ARE NO OCD EMPLOYEES DEDICATED  EXCLUSIVELY TO WASTE RULE ENFORCEMENT."

TO SENATOR'S POINT AND ANDY'S POINT, IF YOU DON'T HAVE  PEOPLE TO ENFORCE, WHAT IS THE POINT OF RULES AND LAW?

YOU GOT TO -- WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CONVERSATION ABOUT BUDGET  FOR THESE FOLKS?

>> Merritt: I THINK THERE IS A  BALANCING ACT AS YOU ALLUDED TO EARLIER AND I THINK IT IS  GOING TO GET BETTER.

IN JANUARY, EXXONMOBILE  ANNOUNCED IT WILL NOT FLARE NATURAL GAS.

IT IS STOPPING.

THERE WILL ALSO BE A NEW  PIPELINE COMPLETED FOR NATURAL GAS IN NOVEMBER OF THIS YEAR  IN THE PERMIAN AND THAT WILL MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.

ONE OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE IS THERE IS NOT ENOUGH PIPELINE  CAPACITY TO SIPHON OFF ALL THE NATURAL GAS AND SO WHEN YOU'RE  PUMPING FOR CONSUMPTION AND PUMPING OIL FOR CONSUMPTION,  BECAUSE WE WANT GAS PRICES TO GO DOWN, WE WANT TO DO IT WITH  AMERICAN OIL, RIGHT?

WE ARE TIRED OF HIGH GAS  PRICES, RIGHT?

WE WANT THE OIL GAS AND OIL  REVENUES FOR NEW MEXICO, RIGHT?

SO, IT IS A BALANCING ACT.

AND NOT ALL OF THE PRODUCERS  ARE EXXONMOBILE OR A SHELL AND THEY MAY NOT HAVE HAD TIME OR  THE REVENUE TO PUT ON THE COMPRESSORS THEY NEED TO  DIVERT THE GAS TO A PIPELINE.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS  IN PLAY THAT I THINK ALSO REGULATORS HAVE TO CONSIDER  THAT THE SMALLER PRODUCERS MAY NOT BE THERE.

IT SHOULD BE NOTED EXXONMOBILE DOES NOT SUPPORT FINING  PRODUCERS WHO ARE PRODUCING FOR CONSUMPTION AND, YOU KNOW,  I THINK THAT IS FAIR.

IT IS KIND OF LIKE, WHAT DO  YOU WANT?

DO YOU WANT CHEAP GASOLINE OR  DO YOU WANT ZERO METHANE?

WHEN THERE ISN'T ENOUGH  PIPELINE THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH WE CAN DO.

SO THAT IS A FACTOR THAT HAS NOT BEEN REPORTED IN THE  COVERAGE OF THIS STORY.

>> Gene: INTERESTING POINT.

LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THIS, TWO DIFFERENT STORIES BEING TOLD.

COMPANIES HAVE UNTIL 2026 TO REACH 98% CAPTURE RATE FOR ALL  NATURAL FUEL PULLED FROM THE GROUND AS MERRITT WAS TALKING  ABOUT.

OF THE 375 COMPANIES THAT  FILED METHANE WASTE REPORTS WITH OCD IN 2021 AND LAST  YEAR, 262 COMPANIES REPORTED CAPTURE RATE OF 98% OR BETTER.

MEANWHILE EPA RELEASED DATA LAST YEAR FROM INSPECTIONS OF  THE PERMIAN BASIN SHOWING 85% OF LEAKING TANKS OR UNLIT  FLARES SEEN BY THE AGENCY DID NOT FILE REPORTS WITH OCD AS  REQUIRED.

CAN WE TRUST EITHER OF THESE  REPORTS?

>> Andy: IT IS FAIR FOR FOLKS  THAT ARE SORT OF QUESTIONING WHETHER THAT IS ACCURATE OR  NOT AND NOT SO MUCH ENFORCEMENT BUT, AGAIN,  REGULATORS, THE BUDGET TO HAVE PEOPLE GO OUT AND ACTUALLY PUT  THEIR OWN EYES ON THAT, RIGHT.

IT DOES -- I THINK I WOULD  FORGIVE FOLKS WHO WOULD SAY THAT DOESN'T SEEM RIGHT.

HOW DO YOU GO FROM THIS TO THIS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN  EVERYBODY IS IN COMPLIANCE AND  EVERYTHING IS FINE.

SO, YES, PROBABLY NEED PEOPLE  OUT THERE CHECKING THOSE.

>> Dede: WHEN EVERYTHING IS  BASED ON SELF REPORTING.

IT IS ALL SELF REPORTING.

AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANYONE IN THE ENVIRONMENT DEPARTMENT OR  THE ENERGY AND MINERALS DEPARTMENT TO EVEN CHECK TO  SEE WHETHER THIS IS TRUE OR NOT AND THEN WHEN YOU HAVE  ANYONE WHO CAN FLY OVER THERE AND SPOT THE FLARES, THERE IS  SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE.

SOMEBODY IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.

AND SOMEBODY IS NOT DOING THEIR JOB.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT IS GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF WORK IN ORDER TO  GET THEM INTO COMPLIANCE.

>> Gene: WE HAD AN INTERESTING  EXAMPLE JUST THIS WEEK.

EPA ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK, TWO  COMPANIES HAVE RESOLVED CLEAN AIR VIOLATIONS PAYING NEARLY  SEVEN MILLION IN FINES COMBINED.

MEANWHILE THE STATE ESTIMATES PUT OIL AND GAS REVENUE CLOSE  TO 47 BILLION FOR 2022.

IS THIS JUST THE COST OF DOING  BUSINESS, THESE FINES?

>> Merritt: RIGHT, THAT IS  ALSO A WAY TO LOOK AT IT, IF YOU'RE MAKING ENOUGH MONEY  FROM PRODUCTION, THIS IS A MINOR COST AND PERHAPS  CHEAPER.

SO, TO WHAT EVERYONE IS SAYING  ABOUT GOING OUT AND ACTUALLY SEEING IT AS IT HAPPENS AND  MANAGING IT, IF YOU'RE A MIDSIZED PRODUCER AND YOU  CAN'T AFFORD WHAT EXXONMOBILE IS DOING, THIS MAY BE A  CHEAPER WAY FOR YOU TO OPERATE.

BUT AGAIN THERE IS THE ISSUE, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH PIPELINE  CAPACITY RIGHT NOW FOR THE CURRENT PRODUCTION AND SO --  UNTIL THERE IS SUFFICIENT PIPELINE, IT WILL GETTER  BETTER BY THE END OF THIS YEAR AND AS INFRASTRUCTURE GROWS IN  THE PERMIAN BASIN TO MEET THE SURGING DEMAND AND WHILE WE  STILL HAVE THESE HUGE DEMANDS FOR OIL, THIS IS GOING TO  CONTINUE TO BE AN ISSUE.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU GUYS  SOMETHING.

YOU ALL KNOW DAVID ABBEY  RETIRING LEGISLATIVE FINANCE COMMITTEE DIRECTOR,  INTERESTING CAT.

ALWAYS GREAT WITH THE PRESS  OVER THE YEARS.

ANDY, HE TOLD THE SANTA FE NEW  MEXICAN, REVENUE FROM THE STATE OIL AND GAS RESOURCES  WAS A BLESSING BUT HE WAS WORRIED THE STATE RISKED  BECOMING TOO DEPENDENT ON IT.

WE HAVE HEARD THAT FROM OTHERS  BUT COMING FROM HIM THIS HAS A BIT OF A DIFFERENT RING TO IT.

SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

>> Andy: IF YOU LISTEN  CLOSELY, THERE ARE REPUBLICANS IN OIL AND GAS IN THOSE AREAS  OF THE STATE, BILL SCHERER COMES TO MIND.

HE IS A BIG FAN OF THE INDUSTRY BUT ALSO FREE TO SAY  THIS ISN'T GOING TO LAST FOREVER, WE NEED TO FIGURE  SOMETHING ELSE OUT.

THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE THAT  EVEN IF THEY ARE, LIKE DAVID ABBEY SAYS, THIS WAS A  BLESSING, BUT IT IS NOT A FOREVER THING.

>> Gene: SENATOR, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

LOOKING AT FUTURE LEGISLATORS, LEGISLATURE SESSIONS, SORRY,  IF THE STATE'S BUDGET CONTINUES TO BALLOON, THAT IS  ONE THING WITH DEALING WITH THESE PEOPLE, BUT IF,  IRONICALLY, OUR OIL AND GAS REVENUES START TO TAIL OFF,  WHAT DOES THAT DO TO REGULATORY STUFF AT THAT POINT?

YOU SEE THE DILEMMA HERE?

DO WE GET AFTER THEM WHILE THE MONEY IS GOOD OR WHILE THEY  ARE NOT DOING SO GOOD.

>> Dede: WELL, OF COURSE,  THOSE OF COURSE IN THE INDUSTRY WILL SAY, WHEN THERE  IS A BUST PERIOD, HOW COULD YOU POSSIBLY MAKE US PAY  ANYMORE OR OUR JOBS ARE ALREADY DOWN.

SO, THEY HAVE IT BOTH WAYS RIGHT NOW.

AND, DAVID ABBEY IS WELL EXPERIENCED AT THE BOOM AND  BUST CYCLE.

IT'S NOT JUST, NOW WE ARE IN  THE BOOM CYCLE, BUT HE HAS EXPERIENCED THE BUST CYCLE AS  WELL.

SO HAS NEW MEXICO IN THE LATE 2000'S.

AND, SO, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO  INVEST SOME OF THIS MONEY IN ALTERNATIVES AND I AM HOPING  THAT WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB ON THAT.

>> Gene: WATCHDOGGING AND REGULATING THE VERY PEOPLE WHO  SUPPLY YOU THE MOST MONEY.

IT IS FRAUGHT.

HOW DO YOU DO IT, ACTUALLY?

>> Merritt: I WANT TO GO BACK  TO THE SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE.

TAKING THE HOUSE BUDGET AND CUTTING THE MONEY GOING TO THE  RESERVE BY 44% TO SPEND MORE MONEY ON OUR BIGGEST BUDGET EVER.

THAT IS THE TYPE OF BEHAVIOR WE CANNOT HAVE.

>> Gene: GLAD YOU GOT THAT IN  AS A LAST NOTE THERE.

THANK YOU AGAIN TO OUR LINE  OPINION PANELISTS.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE AT THE  TABLE FOR ONE MORE CONVERSATION ON A VOTE TO  INCREASE SALARIES OF THE ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILORS  AND MAYOR.

THAT IS LESS THAN TEN MINUTES,  BUT FIRST A CONVERSATION ABOUT TRANSPORTATION HERE IN  ALBUQUERQUE.

EVERYONE HAS AN OPINION ABOUT  CITY BUSES, EVEN PEOPLE WHO DON'T RIDE THEM.

AND IN RECENT YEARS THEY HAVE DRAWN THE ATTENTION OF OUR  CITY COUNCIL WHICH LAUNCHED A ZERO FARES PILOT PROGRAM.

LOCAL OFFICIALS HAVE GONE BACK AND FORTH OVER THAT PROGRAM AS  YOU KNOW.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT HERE.

LEAVING IT AS AN EXPERIMENT FOR NOW AND ADDING MORE GUARDS  WITH MORE POWER ON CITY BUSES AS A COMPROMISE, TO CONTINUE  EXPLORING THOSE FREE RIDES.

OUR LAND'S LAURA PASKUS SITS  DOWN WITH TWO ADVOCATES FOR ALBUQUERQUE'S BUS SYSTEM AND  FOR FREE TRANSIT FOR EVERYONE IN THE CITY.

CHRISTOPHER RAMIREZ AND ALTHEA ATHERTON ARE WITH TOGETHER FOR  BROTHERS AND YES BOTH RODE CITY BUSES TO OUR STUDIOS HERE  AT NEW MEXICO PBS.

>> Laura: CHRISTOPHER, ALTHEA, THANKS FOR BEING HERE TODAY.

>> Ramirez: THANKS FOR  INVITING US.

>> Laura: I WANT TO START JUST  TALKING ABOUT BUSES IN ALBUQUERQUE.

WHO RIDES THEM?

WHY ARE THEY IMPORTANT?

>> Ramirez: ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK IS GREAT AND I THINK  YOU KNOW THIS, TOGETHER FOR BROTHERS HAS BEEN DOING  COMMUNITY BASED RESEARCH AROUND TRANSPORTATION SINCE 2017.

WE ARE FUNDED BY THE KELLOGG FOUNDATION AND NEW MEXICO HEALTH EQUITY PARTNERSHIP TO REALLY LOOK INTO YOUTH AND TRANSPORTATION AND WE LEARNED  A LOT ABOUT BUS RIDERS.

WHAT IS ALSO GREAT IS EVERY  FIVE YEARS, ALBUQUERQUE IS REQUIRED BY THE FEDERAL  TRANSPORTATION ADMINISTRATION, FTA, TO DO AN ON-BOARD SURVEY  WITH BUS RIDERS SO WE LEARN ABOUT THEM AND ALSO SO WE CAN  VERIFY WE ARE NOT ENGAGING IN ANY CIVIL RIGHTS VIOLATIONS.

FEBRUARY-MARCH OF 2022, AS ZERO FARES WAS LAUNCHING, WE  HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE DATA TOOL OF THE ON-BOARD SURVEY THAT  SAYS SOME IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT BUS RIDERS IN ALBUQUERQUE.

ONE THING, 80% OF BUS RIDERS IDENTIFIED ON AVERAGE AS HAVING A HOUSEHOLD INCOME LESS  THAN $25,000.

SO THAT IS BASICALLY LIVING IN  POVERTY, RIGHT.

A LOT OF OUR BUS RIDERS ARE  ECONOMICALLY IN ONE OF THE LOWEST CATEGORIES IN TERMS OF  HOUSEHOLD INCOME.

THE OTHER THING WE WANT TO  SHARE IS WE LEARNED IN THAT ON-BOARD SURVEY, 60% OF BUS  RIDERS DON'T HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR IDENTIFICATION AND  THAT IS IMPORTANT AS WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT IN A  LITTLE BIT.

ONE OF THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO  ZERO FARES WAS A PASS WHICH WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ZERO FARES  BUT WE HAVE 60% OF BUS RIDERS WHO DON'T HAVE ID TO PROVE  THEY ARE SENIORS, TO PROVE THAT THEY ARE THEIR AGE, TO  PROVE THAT THEY ARE WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE.

SO, THAT IS IMPORTANT TOO.

WE KNOW THAT IT ESPECIALLY  IMPACTS PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS WHO FIND IT HARD  TO HAVE AND KEEP AN ID THAT IS VALID.

>> Atherton: IT IS A WIDER RANGE OF PEOPLE THAN I THINK  PEOPLE GIVE CREDIT FOR.

I THINK PEOPLE LIKE ME WHO  HAVE LIKE A MEDICAL REASON TO NOT WANT TO DRIVE OR EVEN SOME  OF MY FRIENDS JUST HAVE ANXIETY ABOUT THE ROAD  CONDITIONS HERE, PEDESTRIAN FATALITY RATES, THINGS LIKE  THAT, YOU KNOW, END UP DECIDING THAT THE BUS, EVEN IF  THEY ARE ONLY SOMETIMES USING IT, A BETTER WAY TO GO.

AND I SEE A LOT OF STUDENTS AT CNM, UNM, AROUND THE PUBLIC  SCHOOLS, USING IT.

SO, ALSO A LOT OF SENIORS WHO  MAYBE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH DRIVING ANYMORE  WHETHER THEY CAN OR HAVE DECIDED NOT TO FOR MEDICAL  REASONS, AS WELL, IT ENDS UP BEING A PRETTY DIVERSE GROUP  OF PEOPLE ON MY DAILY RIDES.

>> Laura: ZERO FARES, CAN YOU  TALK ABOUT HOW THAT PROGRAM BENEFITS ANYBODY IN  ALBUQUERQUE BUT IN PARTICULAR YOUNG MEN OF COLOR AND THEIR  FAMILIES.

>> Ramirez: ABSOLUTELY.

I AM GOING TO TAKE US BACK ALL THE WAY TO 2018.

WE FINISHED DOING A YEAR OF COMMUNITY BASED RESEARCH, OUR  HEALTH IMPACTS ASSESSMENT.

AND THIS IS WHAT IT TOLD US.

IF YOUNG PEOPLE HAD ACCESS TO FREE TRANSIT, IT WOULD IMPACT  THEIR ACCESS TO EDUCATION AND YOU MIGHT REMEMBER THERE WAS A  STORY WHERE WE MET A YOUNG PERSON WHO WAS A FRESHMAN AT  HIGHLAND HIGH SCHOOL, 100 TARDIES.

AND HE WAS ON THE VERGE OF BEING SUSPENDED FROM HIGHLAND.

NO ONE AT HIGHLAND HAD EVER ASKED HIM, WHAT IS MAKING YOU  TARDY?

IT WAS BECAUSE HE HAD TO GET  TO TWO BUSES AND TO GO TO THE SCHOOL OF HIS CHOICE AND BE A  COHORT AT HIGHLANDS.

ACCESS TO EDUCATION, ACCESS TO  EMPLOYMENT.

WOULD IT BE EASIER TO FIND AND  KEEP A JOB IF YOU HAD FREE TRANSIT?

97% OF BOYS AND YOUNG WOMEN OF COLOR TOLD US ABSOLUTELY YES.

ACCESS TO RECREATION.

WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO GET TO  QUALITY PARKS AND OUTDOOR SPACE?

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT IN THE 90'S AGAIN.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT WAS A SURPRISE BECAUSE AS WE WERE  DOING INTERVIEWS, SURVEYS, FOCUS GROUPS, WE LEARNED SOMETHING.

WE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS HEALTHY GETTING TO EXERCISE, THE OTHER THING A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE,  PROBABLY NO SURPRISE TO YOU BECAUSE OF THE RESEARCH YOU  HAVE DONE ABOUT FOOD SECURITY, IN THE INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT  AND WESTGATE, THE MOST IMPACTED TRANSIT DEPENDENT BY  HOUSEHOLD, ACCESS TO HEALTHY FOODS WAS ANOTHER IMPORTANT  FACTOR, RIGHT.

SO, FREE TRANSIT WOULD DO THAT.

WE LEARNED THAT IN 2018.

WE PUSHED FOR FREE STUDENT PASSES AND SOMETHING GREAT HAPPENED IN 2019.

WE WERE INTRODUCED TO THIS NEW  NATIONAL DAY OF ACTION ON ROSA PARKS BIRTHDAY ON FEBRUARY 4  AND USED THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A CALL FOR  FREE TRANSIT FOR EVERYONE.

WE PASSED OUR FIRST RESOLUTION  WITH THE TRANSIT ADVISORY BOARD IN 2019.

CITY COUNCIL ACTUALLY VOTED IN SUPPORT OF FREE TRANSIT BUT WE  MISSED A REALLY IMPORTANT ELEMENT.

THEY DIDN'T ADD ANYTHING TO THE BUDGET.

SO IN 2021, SOMETHING MAGICAL HAPPENED BECAUSE WE DID IT IN  2020 AGAIN AND IN 2021, THEN COUNCILOR SENA FOUND THE THREE  MILLION DOLLARS FOR THE PILOT PROGRAM FOR ZERO FARES.

SO  THAT IS WHERE WE ARE AT.

>> Laura: I CAN IMAGINE HOW  IMPORTANT BUSES ARE FOR PEOPLE TO ACCESS DIFFERENT SERVICES  AND DIFFERENT PLACES ALL ACROSS THE CITY AND, SO, FOR  THE ZERO FARES PROGRAM, HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IT HAS AFFECTED  PEOPLES' ABILITY TO, YOU KNOW, GET TO DO THINGS OUTSIDE IN  ADDITION TO REACHING YOUR JOB OR YOUR SCHOOL?

>> Atherton: YEAH, I THINK IT HAS HELPED A GREAT AMOUNT  BECAUSE I KNOW I WAS ON THE ART BUS A FEW MONTHS AGO AND  TALKING TO SOMEONE AND SHE SAID SHE TAKES THE BUS TO THE  BOSQUE EVERY SUNSET.

THAT'S HER THING.

EVERY SUNSET SHE LIKES TO CATCH.

AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ZERO FARES AND HOW THAT MAKES THAT  AN AFFORDABLE DECISION FOR HER AND AN AFFORDABLE WAY TO GET  TO A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO WATCH THE SUNSET EVERYDAY.

I THINK ABOUT ONE OF THE HEALTH CLINICS WHERE I ACCESS  MEDICAL CARE, ALAMOSA COMMUNITY CENTER, THAT IS A  GREAT ACCESSIBLE BY BUS LOCATION.

EVEN THOUGH IT IS PRETTY FAR FROM MY HOUSE, I ACTUALLY  CHOOSE TO GO TO THAT ONE BECAUSE I KNOW I CAN GET THERE  PRETTY RELIABLY BY THE BUS.

SO IT OPENS UP DOORS FOR SO  MANY PEOPLE AND EVEN IF PEOPLE COULD AFFORD THE SERVICE  BEFORE, THE SERVICE IS BETTER NOW THAT IT IS ZERO FARE  BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR EVERYBODY COUNTING THEIR  NICKELS, MAKING SURE THEY HAVE THE FARE.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO WITNESS THE FARE CONFLICTS BETWEEN THE  DRIVERS AND RIDERS.

EVERYBODY GETS ON THE BUS AND  GOES AND IT HAS MADE ME WANT TO TAKE THE BUS MORE, YOU  KNOW, AS SOMEONE WHO, YOU KNOW, COULD WALK SOME PLACES  AND TAKE THE BUS SOME PLACES, I AM LIKE, OH NO, IT WILL BE  SO FAST TO GET ON THE BUS AND THERE WILL BE FEWER CONFLICTS  IN GENERAL THAN HOW IT USED TO BE.

>> Laura: I CAN IMAGINE THAT, BECAUSE EVEN THOUGH LIKE I  WOULD BE ABLE TO PAY THE FARE BUT I KNOW, LIKE, AS A RIDER  LIKE, IN A NEW CITY OR SOME PLACE, I GET LIKE FLUSTERED.

LIKE, DO I NEED TO HAVE AN ID?

DO I NEED A PUNCH CARD?

DO I NEED EXACT CHANGE?

I CAN SEE HOW THE ZERO FARES  WOULD HAVE IMPACTS BEYOND.

>> Atherton: HONESTLY, EVEN  NOT TAKING OUT MY PURSE AND DIGGING THROUGH TO FIND MY ID  ANYMORE BECAUSE I HAD FREE FARES BEFORE AS A CNM STUDENT.

LIKE EVEN JUST NOT HAVING TO DIG OUT THROUGH MY PURSE AND  JUST REDUCES STRESS SO I AM WAY LESS FLUSTERED WHEN I AM  ON THE BUS.

I JUST HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT MY  MASK.

>> Ramirez: CAN I ADD, ONE OF  THE THINGS I LOVE ABOUT ZERO FARES TOO IS I LOVE HEARING  FROM SOME MORE COMMUNITY PARTNERS BECAUSE WE HAVE HEARD  FROM OTHER SERVICE PROVIDERS LIKE ALBUQUERQUE HEALTHCARE  FOR THE HOMELESS, THEY SAW A SIGNIFICANT DECREASE IN NO  SHOWS OR LATE SHOWS FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE GETTING SERVICES.

BECAUSE PREVIOUSLY TO GET TO THEIR SERVICE, YOU HAD TO HAVE  A BUS PASS.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST BARRIERS  FOR PEOPLE EXPERIENCING HOMELESSNESS TO ACCESS  HEALTHCARE.

WE ALSO HEARD FROM GENDER  RESOURCE CENTERS THAT CLIENTS THAT GO TO THE RESOURCE CENTER  DIDN'T HAVE AS MANY CONFLICTS WITH DRIVERS ABOUT THEIR ID'S  OR NOT HAVING FARES OR BEING HARASSED.

IT IS LIKE THOSE ARE REALLY POSITIVE OUTCOMES TOO IN ZERO  FARES.

YOU GET ON AND GO, IT THAT IS  EASY, RIGHT.

>> Laura: SO, LASTLY, WHAT IS  THE STATUS OF THE ZERO FARES PROGRAM AND WHAT DO YOU  ANTICIPATE MIGHT HAPPEN IN THE NEXT WEEKS, MONTHS.

>> Atherton: YEAH, SO, RIGHT NOW WE HAVE OUR ZERO FARE  PILOT THAT IS STILL GOING ON AND THEN THEY JUST EXTENDED  TIME FOR A STUDY TO SEPTEMBER TO SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING  WITH THE FIXED ROUTES AND IN ADDITION A NEW BILL WAS  PROPOSED TO CITY COUNCIL, BUT THEY HAVE TO DO AN EQUITY  STUDY ON IT FIRST, THAT WOULD MAKE THE ARTS BUS AND  PARATRANSIT, THE SUN VAN, FREE FOR EVERYBODY PERMANENTLY  WHICH WOULD BE A FANTASTIC PROGRAM THAT I THINK WOULD BE,  YEAH, JUST ONE OF THE BEST THINGS WE CAN DO.

OF COURSE, I WANT IT TO BE THE FIXED ROUTE SERVICES TOO BUT A  GREAT PLACE TO START.

>> Ramirez: WHAT WE ARE  EXCITED FOR IS IMPLEMENTATION PLANS REALLY CALL FOR  COMMUNITY INPUT AND FOR COMMUNITY LED SOLUTIONS TO  TRANSIT SECURITY THAT DON'T RELY JUST ON LAW ENFORCEMENT.

OTHER COMMUNITIES ARE LOOKING TO ALBUQUERQUE.

WE RECENTLY ATTENDED A NATIONAL CONVENTION IN DC.

THIS IS WHERE PEOPLE ARE MOVING TOWARD.

I THINK YOU MIGHT HAVE HEARD DC JUST BEAT US OUT AS THE  LARGEST CITY WITH FREE BUSES IN THE COUNTRY.

THEY ARE ABOUT 100,000 PEOPLE MORE THAN ALBUQUERQUE AND  WE'RE HAPPY TO LET THEM TAKE THAT MONIKER OF BEING THE  LARGEST CITY WITH FREE BUSES BUT WE ARE EXCITED THAT PEOPLE  ARE LOOKING TO ALBUQUERQUE AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT THE FUTURE  LOOKS LIKE FOR PUBLIC TRANSIT.

>> Laura: THANK YOU BOTH.

>> Gene: THANK YOU, LAURA.

I SAT DOWN WITH ABQ RIDE DEPUTY  DIRECTOR BOBBY SISNEROS AND PRINCIPAL PLANNER ANDREW DE  GARMO TO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE CITY'S CHANGES TO THE BUS  SYSTEM.

INCLUDING POSSIBLE ROUTE CHANGES.

YOU CAN WATCH THAT ENTIRE INTERVIEW ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS FACEBOOK PAGE AND WEIGH IN ON THE CHANGES IN A SURVEY LINK IN THOSE COMMENTS.

WELCOME BACK TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL FOR ONE LAST SEGMENT.

ALBUQUERQUE CITIZENS INDEPENDENT SALARY COMMISSION, YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE HEARD OF WHO THEY ARE, WE WILL EXPLAIN THAT, VOTED LAST NIGHT TO  APPROVE -- WEDNESDAY NIGHT -- TO APPROVE SALARY INCREASES  FOR CITY COUNCILORS AND THE MAYOR.

COUNCILORS WILL GET AN 87% PAY HIKE.

INCREASING ANNUAL SALARY FROM 33,660 TO 62,843, INTERESTING  NUMBER THERE, PER YEAR.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT WILL RECEIVE  AN ADDITIONAL EQUIVALENT RAISE FROM 35,860 TO 866,928.

AND THE MAYOR'S SALARY IS GOING UP FROM TODAY'S 132 AND  A HALF TO 146,081.

I LOVE THESE NUMBERS MERRITT.

VERY INTERESTING.

THESE INCREASES WILL KICK IN  FOLLOWING EACH DISTRICT'S NEXT ELECT CYCLE, MEANING 2024 FOR  COUNCILORS IN DISTRICTS 2, 4 AND 6 AND 8, ELECTED THIS FALL.

2026 FOR COUNCILORS IN DISTRICTS 1, 3, 5, 7 AND 9.

A LOT OF JUICE THERE MERRITT.

SIMPLE QUESTION.

ARE THESE FOLKS DESERVING OF A  RAISE OF THIS SCOPE?

87% IS A LOT OF MONEY.

>> Merritt: WHAT ABOUT THE LEGISLATURE?

>> Gene: EVERYONE IN NEW MEXICO IS GETTING A RAISE EXCEPT -- >> Merritt: I AM NOT, I GUESS,  PARTICULARLY UPSET BY THIS BECAUSE I MEAN CITY COUNCIL  THEY HAVE GOT FULL-TIME STAFF, THEY ARE ON CALL.

IT SEEMS LIKE A FULL-TIME JOB.

PROFESSIONALIZING A CITY  COUNCIL SEEMS REASONABLE.

I AM NOT UPSET BY THE MAYOR'S  SALARY.

THAT DOESN'T SEEM INORDINATE  BY ANY MEANS.

TO ME, IT JUST SCREAMS WHY  DON'T WE PROFESSIONALIZE OUR LEGISLATURE.

NOT EVEN CLOSE TO CITY COUNCIL LEVELS BUT WE ARE ASKING  PEOPLE TO RAISE UPWARDS OF 100,000 TO CAMPAIGN FOR AN  UNPAID VOLUNTEER JOB AND WE ARE GETTING WHAT WE ARE GETTING.

>> Gene: THAT IS RIGHT, INTERESTING.

GOT SENSE OF THE SALARY LEVELS.

146 FOR THE MAYOR.

THAT IS NOT UNREASONABLE FOR 2023.

>> Dede: NOT WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR  HIM GETTING 200,000 AND MUCH HIGHER THAN WHAT HE IS GETTING.

>> Gene: A LOT OF DEPUTY DIRECTORS.

>> Dede: CAO, THE FIRE CHIEF.

COUNCIL DIRECTORS.

>> Gene: WHAT IS WRONG WITH  THAT SYSTEM?

WHY ARE ALL THESE OTHER PEOPLE  MAKING SO MUCH MORE MONEY THAN THE PERSON SITTING AT THE TOP?

IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

>> Dede: THE CHARTER LIMITED THE SALARY UNLESS IT IS RAISED  BY THE SALARY COMMISSION AND IT ALSO FORBID THE MAYOR FROM  TAKING ANY OTHER EMPLOYMENT.

YOU KNOW, IN OTHER CITIES,  SOMETIMES THE MAYOR IS SORT OF PART-TIME AND HAS ANOTHER JOB.

IN ALBUQUERQUE, COUNCILORS SOMETIMES HAVE ANOTHER JOB TOO.

THERE IS NO PROHIBITION ON THAT IN THE CHARTER.

BUT THERE IS FOR THE MAYOR.

SO, THE MAYOR, WHOEVER IS MAYOR, NEEDS TO BE ON THE SAME  LEVEL AS MAYORS IN OTHER COMPARABLE SIZED CITIES.

AND THAT IS WHAT THE REPORT THAT THEY DID TO BACK UP THAT  LEVEL SHOWED, WHAT THE LEVELS WERE IN OTHER CITIES.

AND HOW BIG THE BUDGET WAS.

HOW MANY EMPLOYEES THERE WERE.

I THINK THERE ARE 7,000 CITY EMPLOYEES.

>> Gene: ISN'T THAT AMAZING.

>> Dede: AND EACH OF THEM GOT  A COST OF LIVING WAGE INCREASE.

>> Gene: PEOPLE ON THE PRIVATE SIDE, ANDY, WOULD LOOK AT THE MAYOR AND THAT LEVEL OF  EMPLOYEE THAT SENATOR JUST MENTIONED AND SAY REALLY, 146?

EMPLOYEE BASE THIS BIG, THIS COMPLICATED?

BUT THAT IS GOVERNMENT.

YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE  ALL THE MONEY.

>> Andy: YEAH, I THINK IT IS  UNFAIR FOR SOMEBODY FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO SAY -- I  MEAN YOU COULD BE AN ASSOCIATE AT LAW FIRM AND MAKE 146, RIGHT?

HERE IS A POSITION WHERE YOU ESSENTIALLY HAVE TO LIVE AT CITY HALL, YOU KNOW, AND IF  YOU'RE NOT AT CITY HALL, YOU'RE AT AN EVENT.

IT IS SORT OF NOT ONLY A FULL TIME JOB BUT A LIFE-STYLE  ESSENTIALLY.

YOU'RE THE MAYOR AND YOU'RE  REPRESENTING THIS CITY THAT IS NO LONGER A SMALL TOWN.

IT IS ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Gene: YOU ARE NEVER OFF THE  CLOCK WHEN YOU ARE A MAYOR, NEVER EVER.

>> Dede: THE MAYORS THAT I HAVE KNOWN IN THE PAST HAVE  SAID IT IS A GREAT JOB.

IT IS A GREAT JOB BECAUSE WHEN  YOU ARE MAYOR YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET THINGS ACCOMPLISHED AND  GET THINGS DONE.

AND PEOPLE RECOGNIZE IT  BECAUSE IT IS IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, IT IS ON THEIR  STREET, IT IS PEOPLE PICKING UP THEIR GARBAGE, SO --  >> Merritt: IF YOU'RE RUNNING FOR MAYOR FOR THE MONEY, I  QUESTION YOUR MOTIVE.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT.

LET'S START WITH THIS MERRITT ON THIS IDEA, IS THIS PAY  INCREASE GOING TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE WHO NORMALLY MAY NOT  CONSIDER RUNNING FOR COUNCIL, DOES THE MONEY MAKE A  DIFFERENCE?

>> Merritt: ABSOLUTELY, AT  THAT LEVEL, CERTAINLY, BECAUSE YOU COULD DEDICATE --  YOU COULD RAISE A FAMILY.

REALLY AT THE EARLIER LEVEL,  I MEAN, THAT WAS REALLY FOR SOMEONE WHO HAD OTHER INCOME,  HAD ANOTHER JOB, MAYBE WAS RETIRED, WAS INDEPENDENTLY  WEALTHY OR SINGLE.

THIS IS SOMETHING I THINK YOU COULD SUPPORT A FAMILY, OWN YOUR OWN HOME, EDUCATE YOUR  CHILDREN WITH.

>> Gene: DOES THAT TURN  AUTOMATICALLY INTO BETTER WORK, IF YOU'RE GETTING BETTER PAY?

>> Dede: NOT NECESSARILY.

BUT I THINK THERE IS A BETTER CHANCE THAT YOU'LL GET PEOPLE THAT WILL BE OF THE CALIBER  THAT CAN MAKE THESE COMPLEX DECISIONS.

REMEMBER, THESE ARE PRETTY COMPLEX DECISIONS NOW.

AND THEY ARE NOT JUST ANYBODY THAT CAN MAKE THESE DECISIONS  BUT I WILL SAY WITH THE CITY COUNCIL, THEY HAVE STAFF.

UNLIKE LEGISLATORS, THEY HAVE A FULL-TIME STAFF PERSON TO  HELP THEM.

AND USUALLY THESE ARE THE  INSIDERS WHO KNOW THEIR WAY AROUND CITY HALL BUT ALSO CAN  HANDLE CONSTITUENT CONCERNS.

LEGISLATORS HAVE NONE OF THAT.

BUT, CITY COUNCILORS DO.

BUT THEY ALSO HAVE TO KNOW HOW  TO MANAGE TO A CERTAIN DEGREE.

>> Gene: LET'S TALK ABOUT WHAT  YOU JUST MENTIONED, ANDY, THE IDEA THAT FOR STATE  LEGISLATORS, NOTHING PASSED ABOUT MODERNIZATION.

DEDE'S ORGANIZATION, COMMON CAUSE, HAD A POLL OUT THERE,  64 RESPONDERS SUPPORT PAYING LEGISLATORS, STRONGLY SUPPORT,  YOU KNOW.

THE NUMBERS ARE THERE FROM OUR  CITIZENS.

WHAT HAPPENED?

WHY AREN'T WE ABLE TO HEAR ABOUT MONEY FOR LEGISLATORS  VERSUS CITY COUNCILORS AND MAYORS.

IS IT A DISCONNECT?

>> Andy: AT LEAST FROM MY  PERSPECTIVE AND FOLKS THAT I TALK TO, I THINK IT IS HARD TO  GET OUT OF THE MINDSET THAT IT IS A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE.

AND SO I THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT IS WHAT COMES  FIRST IS THAT ANYBODY CAN DO IT BUT THE REALITY IS NOT  EVERYBODY CAN DO IT, BECAUSE NOT EVERYBODY CAN AFFORD TO GO  UP AND SPEND THREE MONTHS ESSENTIALLY NOT MAKING MONEY.

I REALLY THINK THAT IS THE HANGUP IS THAT PEOPLE LIKE TO  HOLD ON TO THE FACT THAT IT IS A CITIZEN LEGISLATURE, IT IS  NOT A FULL-TIME JOB, NOT A PROFESSIONAL LEGISLATURE BUT,  WHAT, I THINK PROBABLY THE  TIME IS COMING.

>> Gene: LET ME BOUNCE TO  SOMETHING ELSE GUYS.

YOU PROBABLY SAW THE STORY IN  THE JOURNAL, THE GOVERNOR IS SIGNALING SHE WILL SIGN A BILL  FOR PAY INCREASES FOR STATE-WIDE OFFICIALS.

IT IS INTERESTING.

INCLUDING THE GOVERNOR'S  POSITION WHICH WOULD BE A 54% INCREASE IN THE GOVERNOR'S  SALARY.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO TAKE  EFFECT UNTIL SHE LEAVES OFFICE.

I'M CURIOUS.

OBVIOUSLY FOR SOME HIGH  PROFILE FOLKS, THEY HAVEN'T SEEN A RAISE IN THAT OFFICE  FOR A LONG TIME, IN 20 YEARS IN SOME CAPACITY.

START WITH THE GOVERNOR'S SALARY.

IS THAT A REASONABLE SALARY TO YOU?

>> Merritt: I HAVE NEVER FELT THAT STATE-WIDE -- OUTSIDE OF  THE JUDICIARY, I HAVEN'T FELT THAT STATE-WIDE OFFICIALS WERE UNDERPAID.

I FELT LIKE THEY WERE DOING OKAY.

I AM SO ADAMANT ABOUT PROFESSIONALIZING OUR LEGISLATURE BECAUSE IF YOU'RE  TRYING TO HEAR 1000 BILLS IN 60 DAYS WITH A BUNCH OF PEOPLE  WHO AREN'T BEING PAID FOR IT, IT JUST BECOMES A HUGE POWER  PLAY.

WE ARE GETTING INTO -- WE ARE  GETTING FROM OUR LEGISLATURE WHAT WE ARE PUTTING INTO IT,  WHICH IS NOTHING.

>> Gene: LET ME TALK WITH  SENATOR FELDMAN.

OF COURSE, WE HAD SENATE BILL  2 WHICH WAS INTERESTING THIS YEAR AS WELL.

JUST FIVE DISSENTING VOTES COMBINED.

IT CALLS FOR A NEARLY 18% INCREASE FOR ALL JUDGES AND  LAST YEAR THE GOVERNOR VETOED A SIMILAR MEASURE.

AS WE TAPE THIS ON THURSDAY, SHE STILL HASN'T SIGNED IT,  BUT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS A CHANCE.

I AM INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION ON THIS IDEA OF WHY WE  HAVEN'T PAID OR COURT PEOPLE, AND ARE WE DOING ENOUGH NOW  WITH THIS BILL.

>> Dede: YES, THIS BILL WILL  HELP.

THIS BILL WILL HELP.

IT IS REALLY SHAMEFUL WHAT WE HAVE DONE WITH OUR JUDICIARY.

WE NEED A REAL PROFESSIONAL -- AND THE JUDICIARY HAS BEEN SO  HARD PRESSED DURING COVID AND HAVE RISEN TO THE OCCASION AND  YET THEY HAVE NOT BEEN REWARDED.

SO, I REALLY HOPE SHE SIGNS  THIS BILL AND DOES NOT POCKET VETO IT AS SHE DID LAST TIME.

BECAUSE IT IS ALL PEGGED REALLY TO WHAT A FEDERAL  JUDGE, FEDERAL MAGISTRATE JUDGE IS PAID.

THAT IS A GOOD BENCHMARK, I THINK.

ON THE OTHER STUFF THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, THE  STATE-WIDE OFFICIALS AND THEIR SALARIES, YOU KNOW, IT IS A  TRICKY BUSINESS.

THE LEGISLATURE IS SETTING  THESE SALARIES.

UNLIKE THE CONSTITUTIONAL  AMENDMENT THAT WAS PROPOSED AND UNLIKE WHAT THE CITY IS  DOING, THEY ARE SAYING, THERE SHOULD BE AN INDEPENDENT GROUP  THAT SHOULD DECIDE WHAT THE SALARY LEVEL IS, NOT THE  PEOPLE THEMSELVES.

OF COURSE, WITH THE  LEGISLATORS IT IS EVEN MORE IMPORTANT BECAUSE IT WOULD  APPEAR THEY WERE GIVING THEMSELVES A SALARY.

BUT IT IS TRUE FOR THE CITY COUNCIL.

THE JUDGES HAVE A REAL NEED THERE AND THEY HAVE BEEN  OVERLOOKED FOR MANY YEARS.

>> Gene: IT IS A TALENT ISSUE  WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.

IN SOME INDUSTRIES WE ARE  PAYING BOTTOM THIRD IN THE COUNTRY NATIONALLY FOR  JUDICIAL SALARIES.

ARE WE ATTRACTING THE BEST AND  BRIGHTEST?

DO WE NEED THE BEST AND BRIGHTEST?

I WOULD ARGUE, WE DO.

>> Andy: I THINK WE DO.

AS A SOCIETY AND STATE, WE PUT  A LOT OF PRESSURE ON JUDGES IN PARTICULAR.

THERE IS A VERY HIGH STANDARD FOR JUST THE WAY YOU PRESENT  YOURSELF IN EVERYDAY LIFE.

YOU'RE LIMITED IN WHAT YOU CAN  SAY AND WHO YOU CAN SAY THINGS TO, YOU KNOW.

ABSOLUTELY WE SHOULD HOLD THEM TO A HIGH STANDARD BUT ALSO  PAY THEM FOR THAT.

>> Gene: GOOD POINT THERE.

HEY GUY, GREAT CONVERSATION, THANKS AGAIN.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT ANY OF THE  TOPICS THE LINE COVERED ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM  PAGES AND CATCH UP ON ANY EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED  ON THE PBS APP WHICH IS REALLY COOL OR YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

>> Laura: HI, I AM LAURA PASKUS, SENIOR PRODUCER OF OUR LAND.

WE WORK HARD TO BRING YOU ENVIRONMENTAL NEWS AS PART OF NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

WE TAKE YOU OUT TO THE MOUNTAINS AND DOWN TO THE RIVER.

WE INVITE TOP NOTCH SOURCES INTO THE STUDIO BUT THERE IS SO MUCH HAPPENING WHEN IT  COMES TO CLIMATE CHANGE, WATER, FIRE, ENVIRONMENTAL  JUSTICE, AND MORE, THAT WE JUST CAN'T FIT IT INTO THE  SHOW EVERY WEEK.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE A  NEWSLETTER, OUR LAND WEEKLY THAT COMES OUT EVERY TUESDAY.

IF YOU WANT TO KEEP UP WITH ENVIRONMENTAL NEWS,  JUST-PUBLISHED PEER REVIEWED STUDIES AND MORE, SIGN UP.

IT IS FREE.

IT IS EASY AND I PROMISE  YOU'LL LEARN A LOT.

>> Gene: I WAS MOST INTERESTED IN THE LINE PANEL'S TAKE ON THE PENDING PAY RAISES FOR SOME OF OUR CABINET  SECRETARIES IN SANTA FE AND EVENTUALLY GOVERNOR, AS YOU  HEARD.

A BIG OLE BUMP FOR CITY  COUNCIL HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND THE MAYOR.

TO ME IT IS NOT ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF THE RAISES.

THAT HAS BEEN SETTLED.

MERRITT MADE A GOOD POINT ON  THAT.

IT IS HOW QUIET THE PUSHBACK  HAS BEEN SO FAR.

INTERESTING.

THINK BACK TO ANY MOMENT IN THE LAST 20 YEARS WHEN THE  IDEA OF RAISES POKED ITS HEAD ABOVE THE BRUSH LINE, IT  DIDN'T TAKE LONG FOR THAT IDEA TO DUCK AND COVER AGAIN.

LOOK HOW MANY YEARS IT TOOK TO GET COUNCIL TO PAY ABOVE THE  $10,000 THRESHOLD.

THAT WAS A HUGE FIGHT.

THE QUESTION OF WHETHER WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO EXPECT MORE  FOR OUR MONEY IS THE BIGGIE, HOWEVER.

POLITICS ISN'T EXACTLY A VALUE DRIVEN BUSINESS, BUT HOW WE  MEASURE PERFORMANCE FOR THE MONEY IS LIKELY AN EXERCISE IN  FUTILITY.

SO, PERHAPS ONE OF THE  UNANTICIPATED CONSEQUENCES IS WE WATCH DECISION MAKERS  CLOSER AND WE LET THEM KNOW IT.

SOME THINGS YOU DO FOR LOVE, OTHERS TRULY FOR THE MONEY AND  IN BETWEEN THERE IS PUBLIC SERVICE.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK IN FOCUS.

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