- Coming up, we've got another great episode of "American Black Journal."

As we get ready to welcome the new year, our Black Church in Detroit series is gonna explore the topics and issues that are gonna be priorities for the church in 2025.

We're gonna talk about the challenges and opportunities that await the African American community in the new year.

Stay where you are, "American Black Journal" starts right now.

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(upbeat mellow music) (upbeat mellow music continues) - Welcome to "American Black Journal."

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

Today, we're continuing our series on the Black Church in Detroit, produced in partnership with the Ecumenical Theological Seminary and the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History.

New Year's Eve Watch Night services are a longtime tradition in the Black church, and it's a time to reflect on the past year, to celebrate community, and launch a call-to-action for the coming year.

I spoke with Reverend Torion Bridges, from the Commonwealth of Faith Church, and Pastor Velma Jean Overman, from Christ Temple City of Refuge, about their priorities and their hopes for 2025.

Pastor Bridges, Pastor Overman, welcome to "American Black Journal."

- Thank you.

- Thanks so much for having me again.

- Yeah, so Watch Night services are a big part of the African American tradition in churches.

I wanna start with just a discussion of what Watch Night is, where it comes from.

There's a very significant history there, and I'm not sure everyone knows exactly what that is.

Pastor Bridges, let's start with you.

- So, from my understanding, Watch Night service was the night before the new year where, if memory serves me correct, that was when the slaves were freed going into the following year.

- Emancipation Proclamation.

- Correct.

- Yeah.

- And so the African American slaves at that time went into church to watch that night through until January 1st of the following year.

- Yeah, yeah, and, Pastor Overman, the idea of anticipation at that moment, the idea of spreading the word, which was one of the real challenges at that time, making sure that everybody knew that President Lincoln had signed the Emancipation Proclamation and that they were free, that carries forward, too, this idea of anticipating the new year, anticipating the things that are coming in the new year, and, of course, spreading the word, spreading the word about what we should all be doing.

That kind of still defines a Watch Night.

- Yes, when I think about it from the chair of the state for NAACP Religious Affairs and the power that that individual night had, where collectively they decided that we're gonna move into a new level of freedom and what that could look like.

And the idea that we can do that this year, right, and we need to do that continuously, as a people, to keep our eyes focused our own future, how collectively we galvanize the strength of us, as people, particularly Black people, and what we can do going forward.

So thank you for allowing me to be a part of this conversation.

I look forward to this.

And thank you for starting with Pastor Bridges with that great explanation, because I was gonna give you the apostolic version, so thank you.

- Oh!

- Thank you, thank you.

- No, let's get that one in here too, go ahead.

- Well, the apostolic version really was the freedom that came in the Spirit of God that told us that no matter how you had been oppressed, that we had already been forged in the power of the Spirit, and that we would be overcomers as we had overcame the ocean to come in here and build and to strengthen.

But that our new level of freedom, with that connection in our spiritual life, was gonna take us into places that we couldn't go without God.

- Yeah, yeah, okay, so let's fast forward to your two congregations right now.

What are some of the things that are on your members' minds, what are some of the things that are coming up in your churches that remind us of the importance of Watch Night?

Pastor Overman, I'll start with you this time.

- So what we're preparing to do in our individual churches, here in the city of Inkster, is to really galvanize our community and our members around the next steps for 2025, because we were very engaged with the political climate here in our community as a result of what has happened to the city of Inkster throughout time, whether you speak of a governor that tore down all the buildings and dissolved our school district, or things that happened on a more personal level in our community, that we had to take a active role in that political climate and make sure that we have a voice there.

So we are looking forward to how to collectively do things for the city of Inkster, whether we talk about our economic strength, or making sure that we have access to healthcare, dealing with even the political bill that's happening right now where we're trying to get transit across Wayne County, and there's two communities that still are saying no to it.

So how do we have access, and how does that become a part of the spiritual life in the body of Christ?

And we believe that Jesus was the very first radical in that, and that he was very social and very politically charged in the work that he did.

So whenever I'm talking to our congregation, and I am the pastor of outreach, so I'm the hand in the community that leads the church in the connectivity, is to make sure that they understand everything we say and do has to have a larger consequence than us, as the individual.

- Yeah, yeah.

Pastor Bridges, let us know what's happening in your neck of the woods.

- So for the past, hmm, 16 months, I've preached community.

Like, that's like, I will hang my hat on the fact that there's not a literal 501c3 organization, whether it's Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, the NAACP, the hope of the world is in the church.

I don't care if it's Little League, if it's whatever it is, the actual vehicle for change happens through, say, organizations like this.

If what we think is gonna happen in the next four years, the next three to four years, if it comes to fruition in eight, to 10, to 12, to 15 range, percent range, churches have to be stronger and have to be engaged in their communities.

What that means is what's gotten us here will no longer get us past there.

And Commonwealth is a 7-year-old church, so we're fresh, and we're young, and we have all these ideas, and we stand on shoulders of churches that are 99 years, 60 years, 70 years, 100 years old, while at the same time saying, "Wait a minute, something has to be done differently."

And whether it's me with my friends, and there's four other pastors that really actually make up this collective that we have going on, and the furthest East church we have is Roseville.

We're the first West.

There's a church in Southwest, there's a church in HP, and there's a church in Southfield.

Like, we are regularly getting together and thinking, "What is it that we can do to help move the community forward via the actual church?"

- Yeah, so, Pastor Bridges, talk a little more about what you mean about the challenges that you think our community could face over the next three or four years.

Of course, Donald Trump was elected president in November.

There is a lot that he has said he wants to do.

There's a lot that I think the people who voted for him expect him to do.

I hear and feel about the trepidation that people are feeling about some of those things.

But I'm curious, in your congregation, what you're anticipating, what you're hearing from people about what worries them.

- Food insecurity is one of the biggest things that absolutely worries us.

The correct access to, say, education, that's something.

When you talk about getting rid of the Department of Education and all of the grant money that that adds to places like these, you know, when you're talking about that, like I said, there's a whole plethora of things that I think scare us, but I think it scares us because, historically, we had to literally fight so long to get some things.

And then, we got just a slither of it, and we've been all right with just the slither of it.

He said the last time that I was on this show, that the Black church mirrors Black actual, Black actual politics, excuse me.

I mean, we could do a deep dive and a deep dig into why Trump won and to why Kamala loss, or et cetera, et cetera, but there's a significant schism between millennial African Americans that are working, that are homeowners, that are renters, that have kids, and what leaderships in the church, and in the unions, and in the political realm tells us, and, I mean, that has to be spoken to.

And the biggest uniter of that in the past was the African American church- - Was the church.

- And we just have to get back to listening to, I'll be 38 next year, listening to those that look like me, those that are around me, you know, while we honor those that have paved the way.

And I'm not trying to step on anybody's toes, I'm just saying that your needs now are actually different than my needs are.

- Hmm, can you elaborate a little bit on that?

What those differences are and those generational differences?

- I mean, there's a generational difference.

So my grandfather came here from Selma, and every time I think about getting a brand new job, and I have a great job, he's like, "Boy, you just need to leave, you just need to leave," what did he say?

"Leave well enough alone," that's one, right?

Well, I was reading in the news the other day, GM emailed someone, that they had been there for 38 years, to tell them that this guy no longer had a job.

So we're asked to be loyal to, say, organizations that can't even call us into an office and say, "You know what, Stephen?"

"You know, what Torion?

Things are rough.

What is it that we can do to help keep you here?"

And so that's one of the biggest schisms is that the rules have changed.

When I was coming up, you would've never thought someone that has been charged and found guilty of not just one indictment, what was it?

34 or 38 indictments?

- 34, yeah.

- Could even run to be, I mean, that was such a faux pas moment.

And now look at us, you know, it's like we have to understand that the rules have changed, and the biggest driving force to the rule, I mean, and one of the reasons that the rules have changed is because life moves on.

- Yeah.

- But the actual church is still in this, "Come to us."

No, we have to go to people.

And if we're not going to people, then places like this are gonna be closed down, you know, soon.

- Yeah.

Yeah, Pastor Overman, are you hearing and seeing these same dynamics in your community?

- Well, absolutely, and I think a big charge, particularly to the Black church, is how we sort of was developed in a division called silo, right?

Everything about the ministry and faith was siloed into sections.

And it was done intentionally, like everything else, to make sure that we never understood the power of who we are together.

So whether you talk about siloing me through age, through finances, through the Divine Nine, through social butterflies, there's a way to make sure that we never come together with that power.

So back to what Pastor Bridges is saying, it has to be intentional, because the way a felon can win and we can have this consistent white-male privilege, is because we will fracture off and allow a Shri Thanedar, we will allow others to come in and separate us, and 12 of us will run understanding that only one of us should so that we all can win.

So until we have conversations and do deep dive into strategies that bring success, we will be working at this level, and each generation will come along and say, "We have to listen to the next."

The whole thing about us is that we must sit in a space collectively and learn to glean the strength and the power from all of us, and that is the big challenge that I have with the state level NAACP.

All of our churchers, churches, correction, are so fractured, right?

- Hmm.

- If we're apostolic, if we're Baptist, if we're CME, if we're this, if we're that, we never bring all of those voices into one space and say, "We believe in what God has said about us," and that is, as Christians, "I can do all things through Christ."

Now how do we do all things?

We know we do it better together.

(Stephen chuckles) Right?

And so as long as you can keep us separated you could give us 50 cent to vote for you, a chicken dinner to get a group of us behind you, right?

We know what's really happening.

There's no sense in us having a conversation about going into 2025 if we have people that thought it was okay to vote for him.

- Yeah, yeah.

- That's just the truth.

- What message do you see the night kind of convening around in your churches?

What is the thing that you need your congregants to understand or think about as we get ready for all of these things?

I mean, I know you're talking about a lot of challenges, but also I think the context here, the greater context of splintered political interests, of generational divides, you know, that makes all of this even harder.

So Pastor Overman, tell me what people will experience, in your opinion.

- I wanna look at it from the state level for the NAACP Religious Affairs Chair as I try to collectively bring us together across the state of Michigan, our Black churches, the people that believe that there's something greater than us, that there was no evolution according to Darwin, but we were created by God was greater.

I begin to think about challenging all of our leaders in faith to get that one page where we're gonna say, "We're gonna look like this."

And, as Pastor Bridges said, it's not just him at 38, because I have a son that's 31 and one that is 50, so their scope is totally different.

I have a son in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, who has a totally different outlook on the total America than some young men living here, right?

So how do we, as people, Black people, come together with one common agenda where our quality of life, whether we talk about healthcare, access to wealth, generational wealth, the understanding and the literacy of wealth, economic political support, what does that look like?

And can we, as a church, come together in a conversation and say, "These are the things that we want"?

Because one person can't define it.

I can't say, as Pastor Overman, "We should do A, B, C, and D," because that may be what I think.

But one of our young people were saying, "The American dream isn't the same dream across the water."

So what is the dream that we share that we must have for the generation to come?

And how do we put that in place where we know what was taken, but how do we leave what we want?

And I think we have that opportunity, because if everyone else's financial sustainability is because of us, then we can do it ourselves, right?

- Yeah, yeah.

- If I'm keeping you rich, I certainly can be rich.

- Right, right.

- It's that part.

So business we know already we can do collectively.

We know, for education, how we have taught one another to do great things right in our own communities, so we don't need you to bring us things.

We just need to galvanize and say what we want as our big picture.

And then, we have to include faith.

And, more importantly, for us, as a people, and I don't know about your ministry, Pastor Bridges, but we've gotta stop the division in the churches.

We've got to honor and believe that God so loved the world that he did what he did, so the world would include those that we wanna exclude.

- Yeah, and so, Pastor Bridges, tell me what December 31st will look like in your religious community.

- So I believe that the "Bible" is correct, but I also believe the hymns help us get over.

And in the hymn, "Great is Thy Faithfulness."

There's a line that says, "Strength for today and a bright hope for tomorrow."

That's one of our themes going into next year, is that God grants us that strength today to fight, to organize, to galvanize as we look forward to a bright hope for tomorrow.

Commonwealth is unique, okay?

We are a Southern Baptist church plan, which comes with its own racial identity, pastored by a 6'1", 300-pound, Black, bearded, bald guy in a old Catholic church in Redford, Michigan.

(Stephen chuckles) So, like, there's so many cultural nuances (audio distorts).

(Stephen laughing) - Yes.

- All in their line there.

Right?

- And we're all in there, and we have Black people, we have white people.

You know, but my message is correct, like, my message is still true.

Like, we have to have strength to fight.

One of my members, they're not Black, but they keep their daughter in online school, homeschool, 'cause they wanna be able to know what is actually being taught to their kids.

Like, this is all stuff that we should be leaning to from a grassroots level, to the halls of Lansing, to D.C., to it all.

Like, they don't get there without us.

Like, we fed 700 families this past Sunday.

We have an event tomorrow with, what's the red dog?

Clifford the Big Red Dog.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And so it's like, you know, we're coming alongside organizations and we're doing this, but I'm shaking every single tree, whether it's representative Tlaib, who actually showed up, who actually served.

Whenever I call her, she actually shows up, she actually serves.

But there's more people that answer to us than actually we answer to them.

- Yeah.

- And actually they need to know that, like, we need to get on one page, we need to get on one accord.

And whether it's the mayor's race, the actual mayor's race next year, whether it's who is gonna run for- - Governor.

- Governor, or anything, like, they don't get there without us.

And, you know, in the past, there has been three, or four, or five, or six that they've been able to splinter off and give this to and give that to, and we just have to say no to that.

Like, they don't get there without us.

And we have to support, we have to galvanize, we have to be engaged with the entire process to make sure that in the words of somebody, "When we fight," right?

- "We win."

- "We win," you know?

And we also have to remember winning is not always just one time.

You're fighting this one battle, like, it's a continuous fight.

- And you have to have that common agenda to win, right?

- Yeah, there we go.

- Yeah, yeah.

- That's our big challenge, the common agenda.

Because as long as we do fragmented work, it doesn't matter, little wins, right?

- Yeah, yeah.

- But for us, as a people, it is time for us to get on one page and to accomplish the tasks that we set out for.

- Yeah, yeah.

- And we can do that.

- Pastor Bridges and Pastor Overman, it was really great to have both of you here- - Thank you.

- To talk about Watch Night and the new year.

Thanks so much for joining us on "American Black Journal."

- You're welcome.

- That is gonna do it for us this week.

You can find out more about our guests at AmericanBlackJournal.org, and you can connect with us anytime on social media.

Take care, and we'll see you in the new year.

♪ He keeps on keeping me ♪ Keeps on keeping me - I need everybody in the building to say that with me, come one.

♪ Said he keeps on keeping me ♪ Keeps on keeping me ♪ How we made it over ♪ How we were set free ♪ Sometimes we were in darkness ♪ ♪ But walked in victory ♪ I'm grateful for your covering ♪ ♪ From dangers unseen ♪ Thank you, Lord, for keeping me ♪ ♪ Thank you, Lord, for keeping ♪ 'Cause he keeps on keeping me ♪ ♪ Keeps on keeping me ♪ Everybody clap your hand right here ♪ ♪ Hey, I said he keeps on keeping me ♪ ♪ Keeps on keeping me ♪ Hey, do-do-do-do, now we made it over, say ♪ ♪ How we made it over ♪ Everybody clap, we made it ♪ How we were set free ♪ Sometimes ♪ Sometimes we were in darkness ♪ ♪ But we walked in ♪ But walked in victory ♪ I'm grateful for your covering, God ♪ ♪ Grateful for your covering ♪ From dangers ♪ From dangers unseen ♪ Oh, yeah ♪ Thank you, Lord ♪ Hey, come on ♪ For keeping me ♪ 'Cause he keeps on keeping me ♪ ♪ Keeps on keeping me ♪ Do I have a witness ♪ Do I have a witness ♪ Say, he keeps on keeping me ♪ Keeps on keeping me ♪ Say it one more time ♪ Say how we made it ♪ How we made it over ♪ Hey, hey, hey, hey ♪ How we were set free ♪ Sometimes ♪ Sometimes we were in darkness ♪ ♪ Da-da-do-do-do ♪ But walked in victory ♪ Grateful for your covering, yeah ♪ - [Announcer] From Delta faucets to Behr paint, Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers, all over the world, experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit PBS.

- [Announcer] DTE Foundation is a proud sponsor of Detroit PBS.

Among the state's largest foundations committed to Michigan-focused giving, we support organizations that are doing exceptional work in our state.

Learn more DTEfoundation.com.

- [Narrator] Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you, thank you.

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