♪♪ LAST SPRING THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S 2021 SESSION ENDED WITH INDIANA IN THE GRIPS OF COVID WITH LAWMAKERS HELL BENT ON CURBING EXECUTIVE BRANCH AUTHORITY AND WITH THE STATE'S TREASURY BULGING FROM PANDEMIC RELATED REVENUE.

SOUND FAMILIAR.

EIGHT MONTHS LATER, AS THE 2022 SESSION BEGINS, IT IS AS YOGA BERRA FAMOUSLY SAID, DEJA VU ALL OVER AGAIN.

I'M JON SCHWANTES, THIS IS INDIANA LAWMAKERS.

WE'LL START THE SEASON AS WE ALWAYS DO, WITH THE ASPIRATIONS, PREDICTIONS AND WARNINGS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S 4 CAUCUS LEADERS.

INDIANA LAWMAKERS FROM THE STATEHOUSE TO YOUR HOUSE.

AS I MENTIONED AT THE OUTSET, THE 2022 SESSION IS PICKING UP PRETTY MUCH WHERE THE 2021 SESSION LEFT OFF.

AND NOT SURPRISINGLY THERE FOR, THE SAME GOES FOR US, AS WE ONCE AGAIN GLEAN THE INSIGHTS OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY FOUR CAUCUS LEADER.

LONG TIME VIEWERS WILL NOTICE A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE, INSTEAD OF SITTING DOWN WITH ME IN STUDIO, MY GUESTS ARE JOINING US VIA ZOOM.

I'M PLEASED TO WELCOME REMOTELY AT LEAST, HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSEN, PHIL -- SENATE PRESIDENT RODRIC BRAY, A MARTINSVILLE REPUBLICAN, AND GREG TAYLOR AND INDIANAPOLIS DEMOCRAT.

I THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US ON WHAT I KNOW IS A BUSY WEEK FOR YOU ALL.

LATE START WITH COVID.

HOW COULD WE NOT START WITH COVID?

THIS STATE IS STILL IN A CRISIS BY ALL MEASURES, THE SAME GOES FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

SO TODD HUSTON, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, HOW DO WE RECONCILE THE FACT THAT HOSPITALS ARE FULL, WE ARE AT SOME RECORD LEVELS, IN FACT, FOR THE MONTH OF DECEMBER AT MANY HOSPITALS ACROSS THE STATE.

I SAW THIS WEEK, THE ASSOCIATED PRESS QUOTED THE HEAD OF THE INDIANA CHAPTER OF THE AMERICAN COLLEGE OF CARDIOLOGY IS SAYING THAT THE UNVACCINATED ARE KILLING US.

WE'RE OVERWHELMED.

HOW DO YOU RECONCILE THAT SITUATION WITH YOUR CAUCUS'S TOP LEGISLATIVE PRIORITY, WHICH SENDING THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY, WHICH HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE MARCH OF 2020?

>> FIRST, GREAT TO BE HERE THIS MORNING.

I WISH WE WERE IN PERSON.

BUT, THIS IS THE STATE OF THE WORLD AS IT IS.

A COUPLE THINGS RELATING TO THAT, FIRST OF ALL, THE PUBLIC HEALTH STATE OF EMERGENCY, IN DOING THAT, IS REALLY ONLY OPPONENTS OF THAT THAT ARE LEFT.

AND WE ADDRESS EACH OF THOSE THREE COMPONENTS IN HOUSE BILL 1001.

SO WHILE IT MAY FEEL IMPORTANT, IT REALLY BECOMES MORE SYMBOLIC TO BE IN THAT STATE OF EMERGENCY.

BECAUSE DOCTORS, NURSES, HOSPITALS, HOOSIERS, IN GOVERNMENT, ALL HAVE THE SAME OPPORTUNITIES, AND TO ADDRESS ISSUES THE SAME WAY THEY'VE ALWAYS DONE.

YOU'LL NOTICE NO DIFFERENCE FROM ONE DAY TO THE NEXT WHEN THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY ENDS.

>> YOU MENTIONED SYMBOLISM AND THE IMPORTANCE OF SYMBOLISM HERE.

>> YEP.

>> THAT BRINGS UP A QUESTION OF OPTICS, WHEN YOU WERE FIRST PUSHING THIS, YOUR CAUCUS RULED THIS AS THE TOP PRIORITY.

WE'VE HAD 160% JUMP OR MORE IN HOSPITALIZATIONS JUST IN THE PAST MONTH.

ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT THE OPTICS?

DO YOU WISH YOU HAD A MULLIGAN AND COULD GO BACK IN THE TIME MACHINE AND SAY IT IS IMPORTANT, BUT MAYBE WE DIDN'T NEED TO MAKE IT SUCH A TOP PRIORITY?

>> NO, JON.

WE'RE IN THE STAGE OF THIS WHERE IT IS ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT GOVERNMENT ACTIONS.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK ACROSS THE COUNTRY, ACROSS THE WORLD, FOR THAT MATTER, I MEAN, DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE TRIED TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS IN REGARDS TO COVID.

AND STOPPING THE SPREAD.

PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN THE MOST DRACONIAN STEPS.

THE SAME AS YOU NOTED EARLIER, THE SAME ISSUES REGARDING HOSPITALIZATION, AND CASES, THAT PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN LESS RESTRICTIVE STEPS HAVE TAKEN.

I THINK WE FELL INTO THIS TRAP OF BELIEVING WE'RE GOING TO CONTROL AND DETERMINE HOW A VIRUS WILL ACT.

AND WE SEE CASE AFTER CASE OF PEOPLE THAT ARE FULLY VACCINATED, WITH BOOSTER SHOTS, WHO HAD COVID, WHO ARE CATCHING IT AGAIN, JON.

THIS IS A TIME, WE ARE GOING TO LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE COVID EXISTS, WE HAVE TO DO IT.

THE GREAT THING IS THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THE VACCINATIONS, AND OTHER TREATMENTS THAT WE NOW HAVE AT OUR DISPOSAL.

BUT WHEN IT GETS DOWN TO IT, WE'RE LONG PAST GOVERNMENT ACTION.

AND PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE THE PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITIES THAT THEY FEEL ARE RIGHT FOR THEM TO ADDRESS THE WORLD LIVING IN COVID.

>> PHIL, THE SPEAKER TALKS ABOUT HOUSE BILL 1001, THE BILL WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE.

AND THE STEPS THAT ARE BEING TAKEN TO INSURE THAT EVEN IN THE ABSENCE OF A GUBERNATORIAL EMERGENCY ORDER THAT FEDERAL DOLLARS FOR INSTANCE FOR MEDICAID OR FOOD ASSISTANCE ARE IN PLACE AND THE KIDS CAN STILL GO TO VACCINE CLINICS EN MASSE AND GET VOLUNTARILY GET SHOTS.

I'M GUESSING, THAT THAT PART MAY BE OKAY, ONE THING WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT THAT'S PROBABLY THE MORE CONTROVERSIAL ASPECT OF HB1001 IS WHAT AMOUNTS TO A PROHIBITION, WE CAN ARGUE ABOUT SEMANTICS ON PRIVATE EMPLOYERS, AND THEIR ABILITY TO MANDATE TESTING.

PHIL, AM I READING THAT RIGHT THAT MAYBE THE FIRST PART OF THE BILL MIGHT BE EASIER FOR YOUR CAUCUS TO SWALLOW INSTEAD OF THE SECOND?

>> I THINK YOU ARE READING IT RIGHT.

WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, I THINK THAT ALSO APPLIES TO EMPLOYEES HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY WHEN THEY ARE WORKING FOR AN EMPLOYER, AND THE EMPLOYER SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO, IN ORDER TO KEEP THIS BUSINESS RUNNING, PARTICULARLY THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY, HOSPITALS, NURSING HOME CARE FACILITIES.

THE FACILITIES THAT ARE CARING FOR ELDERLY AND THE SICK.

THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, TO THEIR EMPLOYEES, WE REALLY NEED YOU TO BE VACCINATED OR WE'RE GOING TO BE IN BIG TROUBLE.

AS YOU STATED EARLIER, THIS IS A PANDEMIC REALLY ABOUT THE UNVACCINATED.

ONE OF THE CONCERNS I'VE HAD ABOUT 1001, AND THE MESSAGE THAT IT SAID, THERE HAS BEEN MORE TALK ABOUT OPTING OUT OF THE VACCINE.

AND THAT'S REALLY I DON'T THINK THE MESSAGE THAT WE WANT TO SEND.

AND IF WE WANT TO KEEP THE ECONOMY MOVING, IF WE WANT TO KEEP FOLKS EMPLOYED AND NOT GOING BACK TO WHERE WE'RE HAVING TO DIP INTO OUR STATE COFFERS AND HELP FOLKS OUT THAT WAY, BECAUSE WE REALLY DO WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO WORK, THE ECONOMY TO MOVE, BE BACK TO NORMAL, FOLKS HAVE TO GET VACCINATED, THAT MAY REQUIRE EMPLOYERS TO SAY YOU NEED TO BE VACCINATED OR ELSE.

>> ROD BRAY, I LOOK AT YOUR CAUCUS'S AGENDA, YOU POINT OUT YOU WANT TO END THE EMERGENCY ORDER, YOU USED THE WORD RESPONSIBLY, BUT THE PLATFORM OR THE AGENDA DOES NOT INCLUDE ANY RENS TO THE OTHER PART OF HB1001, WHAT CRITICS WOULD SAY WOULD BE APPLYING HANDCUFFS TO BUSINESS OWNERS WHO WANT TO OPERATE IN A PARTICULAR MANNER.

INDIANA'S AN AT-WILL STATE, TRADITIONALLY REPUBLICAN CAUCUS HAS, BOTH THE HOUSE AND SENATE, HAVE BEEN SUPPORTIVE OF THAT.

WHAT CAN WE READ INTO THE FACT, ROD BRAY, THAT THE RESPONSIBLE ROLLBACK OF THE RECORD, ORDER -- ORDER, YES, AND THE RESPONSIBLE PART -- THAT WOULD BE A STICKING POINT FOR YOUR CAUCUS?

>> WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION, A VERY SERIOUS CONVERSATION ABOUT THE VACCINE, I EXPECT IT TO COME OVER IN HOUSE BILL 1001, WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.

I'M HAPPY TO TALK MORE IN DETAIL ABOUT THAT.

TO YOUR SPECIFIC QUESTION, THE REASON WE PUT THE BILL SIMPLY ENDING RESPONSIBLY THE EMERGENCY ORDERS, WE FELT WE NEEDED SOME LINE WE COULD MOVE THROUGH RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

WHEN YOU ADD THAT PIECE OF THE VACCINATION MANDATE TO IT, THAT MAKES IT A HEAVIER BILL, IT IS ANOTHER IDEA THAT TAKES A LOT OF DISCUSSION.

AND THERE IS A LOT OF MERIT TO IT, BECAUSE WE NEED TO THREAD THE NEEDLE IN SOME WAY TO -- EMPLOYERS SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO KIND OF CONTROL THEIR ENVIRONMENT.

BUT, THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME OPTIONS FOR THOSE EMPLOYEES WHO FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE A MEDICAL REASON FOR AN EXCEPTION, A RELIGIOUS-BASED REASON FOR THE EXCEPTION, ALL THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE OUT THERE FOR THOSE EMPLOYEES AS WELL.

SO WE'LL TAKE THAT UP AND DISCUSS IT IN EARNEST WHEN IT COMES OVER IN THE HOUSE BILL.

BUT WE WANTED SOMETHING STREAMLINED TO DEAL WITH THE EMERGENCY ORDERS RIGHT NOW.

>> NOT OFTEN YOUR CAUCUS WOULD BE -- WELL, SUPPORTERS OF THE PROHIBITION WOULD BE AT ODDS WITH, FOR INSTANCE, THE STATE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE, WHICH IS, AGAIN, HISTORICALLY TRADITIONALLY -- I WON'T SAY IN LOCK STEP WITH YOUR CAUCUS, BUT CERTAINLY THERE IS SOME ECHOES OF POLICY IN THOSE REGARDS.

IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

GREG TAYLOR, THINGS WE ARE TOLD BY LEADERSHIP ARE BACK TO NORMAL.

THE PLEXIGLASS IS GONE, THE PUBLIC HEARING ROOMS ARE OPEN.

SOME OF THE SENATE, YOUR COLLEAGUES DON'T HAVE TO SIT IN THE BALCONY.

THE HOUSE IS BACK FROM THEIR INDIANA GOVERNORMENT SOUTH LOCATION IN THE CHAMBER.

DOES YOUR CAUCUS FEEL SAFE WITH THE RETURN TO, WELL, LET'S CALL IT NORMAL?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING US AGAIN TODAY.

I FEEL SAFE.

I'VE BEEN VACCINATED.

I'VE BEEN BOOSTED.

I'LL GET A BOOSTER AGAIN IF IT BECOMES NECESSARY, IF RESPONSIBLE HEALTHCARE OFFICIALS TELL ME THAT'S IMPORTANT.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE STILL HAVE SOME PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THAT THIS SITUATION IS NOT WHAT IT IS, WHICH IS, IT'S A CRISIS.

WE HAVE HOSPITALS THAT ARE BUSTING AT THE SEAMS.

AND YOU KNOW, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE UNDERSTAND THAT AS LEGISLATORS, PEOPLE LOOK TO US TO GIVE THEM GUIDANCE IN A LOT OF CASES ON WHAT TO DO.

I THINK THAT IT JUST SENDS THE WRONG MESSAGE, WHAT WE'RE STARTING WITH, INCLUDING OTHER MATTERS THAT WE MAY GET TO IN THIS DISCUSSION, BUT THIS IS A VERY TROUBLING TIME FOR ME, I FEEL SAFE, I JUST HOPE THAT MY COLLEAGUES ARE SAFE, AND WE WON'T HAVE TO SEE A FEW OF MY COLLEAGUES ON THE FLOOR BECAUSE WE'RE SO CLOSE.

AND VERY FEW PEOPLE WEAR MASKS, AND THEY WON'T BE ABLE TO COME BACK.

>> TODD HUSTON, TO THAT POINT, YOU SAID THIS WEEK, THAT WE'RE BACK, BUSINESS AS NORMAL, WE'RE GOING TO WORK HARD, BE AGGRESSIVE.

NO CIRCUMSTANCE WHERE YOU WOULD SEE NOT DOING WHAT YOU ALWAYS DO.

IS THAT REALLY THE CASE, NO CIRCUMSTANCE THAT WOULD CAUSE YOU TO GO BACK TO PLEXIGLASS FIELDS OR A TEMPORARY RETURN TO VIDEO TESTIMONY, THOSE SORTS OF THINGS.

THIS IS A COMMITMENT TO WHAT WE SEE THIS WEEK IS WHAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE FOR THE NEXT NINE PLUS WEEKS?

>> JON, I CAN'T PREDICT A FUTURE PERFECTLY.

AND IF WE CAME IN TO HAVING STAFFING ISSUES, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

JON, FIRST OF ALL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I WANT TO SAY THAT THIS DOES NOT PROHIBIT, HOUSE BILL 1001 DOESN'T PROHIBIT EMPLOYERS FROM REQUIRING A VACCINATION, IT JUST ALLOWS FOR PROPER -- ALLOWS FOR EXEMPTIONS AND GIVES EMPLOYEES RIGHTS.

>> ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO ENFORCE.

>> POTENTIALLY GIVING THE EMPLOYEE RIGHTS.

HERE'S A SECOND THING.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, AT THE END OF THE DAY, I MEAN, JOE BIDEN SAID HE'S GOING TO STOP THE VIRUS, LOOK, THE VIRUS IS GOING TO DO WHAT THE VIRUS DOES.

AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LIVE IN IT.

OUR KIDS HAVE TO GET BACK IN SCHOOLS.

WE'VE SEEN THE DRAMATIC IMPACT FROM A MENTAL HEALTH, EDUCATIONAL STANDPOINT, OF WHAT THESE ACTIONS THAT WE'VE TAKEN, YOU KNOW, AND WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD.

AND IN OUR SMALL PORTION OF THE WORLD, WE CAN CONTROL HOW WE MOVE FORWARD, AND WE HAVE TO DEMONSTRATE THAT.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT, WHEN RESTAURANTS ARE FULL, WHEN THERE IS 68,000 PEOPLE AT THE COLTS GAME, WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH THE MALLS CHRISTMAS HOLIDAYS, THEY WERE FULL.

WHICH IS ALL GREAT TO SEE, AND PEOPLE ARE READY TO GO BACK.

WE NEED TO INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER, WE NEED TO SEE EACH OTHER.

AND I THINK IT'S CRITICAL.

I THINK WE'VE GOT TO MOVE FORWARD, AGAIN, THE GREAT NEWS IS THERE ARE WAYS, IF YOU ARE CONCERNED, YOU CAN PROTECT YOURSELF.

PLEASE, BE VACCINATED, PLEASE, IF YOU FEEL THE NEED, WEAR A MASK.

DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO.

BUT AS A SOCIETY, WE HAVE GOT TO MOVE FORWARD, AND AGAIN, EVERY DAY IN THE PAPER, IN THE NEWS, YOU READ, THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE ACTIONS OF NOT.

>> RIGHT.

I SHOULD POINT OUT, TO YOUR POINT ABOUT IT'S NOT BEING TECHNICALLY PROHIBITION, YOU'RE RIGHT, THERE ARE MEMBERS OF YOUR CAUCUS, FOR INSTANCE, THAT DON'T THINK THE BILL THAT'S BEEN AUTHORED AND I THINK CO-AUTHORED BY 56 MEMBERS OF YOUR CAUCUS, THEY SEE THAT AS TOO MUCH OF A MIDDLE ROAD, THAT THEY WANT TO SEE PERHAPS MAKING WORKERS WHO DON'T WANT TO GET VACCINATED A PROTECTED CLASS UNDER INDIANA -- RIGHT.

>> AND TO SPEAK TO THE ECONOMICS OF IT, JON, I TALK TO EMPLOYERS WHO SAY IF WE HAVE A MANDATE, YOU FORCE US TO HAVE A MANDATE, WE WON'T HAVE A STAFF.

IF WE HAVE ENOUGH SUPPLY CHAIN ISSUES TODAY, THE LAST THING WE NEED TO DO IS PROVIDE MORE CHALLENGES TO THE ECONOMIC SUPPLY CHAIN.

>> SO MUCH TO COVER HERE.

WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT THE BUDGET AND TAXES, AND REVENUE THIS SESSION, IT'S NOT A BUDGET HERE, WERE IT NOT FOR COVID, THIS IS A NATURAL TRANSITION FROM COVID.

BECAUSE OF FEDERAL -- INFUSION OF FEDERAL DOLLARS, BECAUSE OF INFLATION, BECAUSE OF THE SUPPLY CHAIN, WE'VE SEEN MORE TAX REVENUE COME IN.

THE STATE IS AWASH IN CASH.

WE'VE HAD A TRIGGER OF REFUNDS, PERSONAL TAX REFUNDS.

PHIL -- THERE IS SOME PEOPLE WHO SAY WE NEED TO GO FURTHER WITH A PERMANENT TAX CUT BEYOND WHAT IS DONE NOW.

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> I THINK -- AS I SAID THE OTHER DAY, I THINK IT IS A GOOD TIME TO TAKE STOCK OF WHERE WE ARE AS A STATE.

AND I ALWAYS THINK AS LEGISLATORS WE'RE SENT HERE TO SOLVE PROBLEMS, LET'S SEE WHERE ARE WE DEFICIENT AS A STATE?

I THINK ONE OF THOSE ISSUES IS CERTAINLY HEALTHCARE.

WE'RE GOING TO FIND OUT A LOT OF THINGS COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC, THINGS WE NEED TO WORK ON.

WE HAVE UNHEALTHY FOLKS IN THIS STATE.

WHAT CAN WE DO, THAT COST US HEALTHCARE.

THE SPEAKER AND I HAVE TALKED ABOUT THAT A LOT.

HE IS INTERESTED IN THAT, AS WELL.

THE COST OF HEALTHCARE IS VERY HIGH IN THIS STATE.

WITH PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.

THOSE TYPE OF THINGS.

THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS I THINK THAT WE CAN REALLY DO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY INVEST IN THIS STATE, INVEST IN PEOPLE.

WE HAVE A REAL OPPORTUNITY, BAUERS AS YOU MENTIONED -- BECAUSE AS YOU MENTIONED, THE ■FEDERAL DOLLARS UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN.

WE GOT OFF TO A GOOD START, THE BUDGET FROM LAST YEAR.

THERE IS A LOT OF OPPORTUNITIES THERE, THAT WE CAN DO.

I MENTIONED ONE SPECIFICALLY, INCLUDING CHILD TAX CREDIT THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK ABOUT A LITTLE BIT MORE AS SESSION GOES ON.

THERE IS SOME REAL OPPORTUNITIES, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE US INVEST THOSE DOLLARS IN THE STATE, IN PROGRAMS, THAT I THINK CAN REALLY HELP HOOSIERS.

>> ROD BRAY, THIS MAY BE ONE OF THOSE ISSUES, WITH RESTRICTIONS ON EMPLOYEE VACCINATION REQUIREMENTS.

THIS MAY BE ANOTHER AREA WHERE YOU AND YOUR COUNTERPARTS IN THE HOUSE MAY SEE THINGS WITH SUBTLE DIFFERENCES.

FROM WHAT I HEAR, YOUR CAUCUS IS NOT NECESSARILY AS ENTHUSIASTIC AS MOVING FORWARD WITH A TAX -- PERMANENT TAX DECREASE, AS PERHAPS, AGAIN, YOUR HOUSE COUNTERPARTS, IS THAT A FAIR ASSESSMEN?

>> YEAH, THAT'S PROBABLY A FAIR ASSESSMENT.

WE'VE GOT A LOT OF CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE ABOUT THAT.

WE'VE BEEN HAVING THEM NOW NOR SEVERAL WEEKS.

IN FACT, A COUPLE MONTHS.

AND PRETTY HEALTHY CONVERSATION FIGURED OUT.

REPRESENTATIVE MADE A GOOD POINT.

THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT THE STATE CONTINUES TO HAVE, THAT WE ALSO NEED TO ADDRESS.

I THINK THE THING THAT FIRST OCCURS TO ME IS THAT THIS IS OBVIOUSLY NOT A YEAR, WE ARE BLESSED WITH THE FACT OF THE RESILIENCE OF HOOSIERS, AND HOW THEY'VE DONE, AND THAT IS SHOWING UP IN THE REVENUE COMING INTO THE STATE OF INDIANA FROM A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT SOURCES.

BUT, JUST BECAUSE OF THE FACT, BECAUSE OF THAT FACT DOESN'T MEAN WE IMMEDIATELY GO OUT AND SPEND IT.

WE NEED TO DO THAT IN A THOUGHTFUL AND PLANNED WAY.

THIS IS NOT A BUDGET YEAR.

TO DO THAT PIECEMEAL, PERMANENT TAX CUTS, GIVES ME A LITTLE BIT OF PAUSE.

THE OTHER THING WITH REGARD TO THIS, THE NICE THING, WE HAVE THE AUTOMATIC -- PAYING $545 MILLION BACK TO TAXPAYERS.

PLUS ANOTHER 545 MILLION THAT'S GOING TO PAY A PENSION OBLIGATION THAT WE ALREADY HAVE.

BOTH FANTASTIC NEWS.

BUT WHEN IT COMES TO TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO WITH THE REST OF THIS, LET'S BE THOUGHTFUL, WE DO HAVE HEADWINDS IN THE ECONOMY.

WITH ALL THE CAST IN OUR ECONOMY NOW, ONCE THAT BURNS OFF -- I'M NOT NEARLY SMART ENOUGH TO KNOW WHERE THAT WILL BE.

INFLATION IS RARE IN THEIR HEAD, WORKFORCE, SUPPLY CHAIN, ALL OF WHICH ARE GOING TO BE PROTRACTED AND AROUND A LITTLE WHILE, EVEN WHEN THIS CASH BURNS OFF.

I THINK -- WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THOSE -- WHERE THAT MONEY NEEDS TO GO AND IF WE NEED TO DEPLOY IT NOW OR HAVE MORE PERMANENT TAX CUTS.

IT'S A BETTER CONVERSATION IN THE SCHEME OF AN ENTIRE BUDGET, WHICH WE DO NEXT YEAR.

>> THIS IS A TIME NOT TO INSTITUTE A PERMANENT TAX CUT, BUT PERHAPS FURTHER INVEST IN AREAS OF INDIANA THAT NEED SHORING UP BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC OR OTHER AREAS WHERE THERE MIGHT BE OPPORTUNITIES FOR GROWTH.

>> YEAH, I THINK IT'S VERY INDICATIVE OF WHERE WE'VE BEEN IN THE PAST THAT INDIANA HAS BEEN IN A GOOD FINANCIAL POSITION, AND WE'RE ALWAYS DISCUSSING WHAT THE PROBLEMS COULD BE GOING FORWARD, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE, TO ME, THAT EVERY TIME WE HAVE A PROBLEM, THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEBODY WHO COMES TO OUR AID, BEING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, LIKE WAS DONE UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, IF IT WASN'T FOR THE INFLUX OF CASH FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ACTUALLY PUT THE REVENUE BACK INTO THE BUDGET LIKE WE WANTED TO.

S WE DID SOME GOOD THINGS.

BUT I HAVE A DIFFERENT PRIORITY.

MY PRIORITY IS TO GET HOOSIERS MAKING ENOUGH MONEY SO THEY CAN TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILY.

UNDER THE POLICIES THAT WE'VE HAD FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, HOOSIERS HAVE NOT SEEN THE INCREASE IN TAKE HOME PAY LIKE THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

AND HOW DARE WE BE IN A POSITION TO HAVE A $5 BILLION SURPLUS, YET PEOPLE CAN'T WORK ONE JOB TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILY.

>> I WANT TO MOVE ON TO EDUCATION, BEFORE I DO IT WOULD BE UNFAIR NOT TO LET SPEAKER HUSTON WEIGH IN ON THIS ISSUE SINCE IT IS IN FACT YOUR CAUCUS IN THE HOUSE, WAY, AND MEANS COMMITTEE CHAIR THAT SUGGESTED THAT A TAX BREAK, ADDITIONAL TAX BREAK IS APPROPRIATE.

WHY DOES IT MAKE SENSE DESPITE WHAT YOUR COLLEAGUES HAVE SUGGESTED?

>> FIRST OF ALL, YOU KNOW, ANY TIME YOU CAN RETURN MONEY BACK TO HOOSIERS IS THEIR MONEY, AND WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET THAT.

YOU KNOW, WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INVESTING, THAT'S GOVERNMENT INVESTING, I'M A LOT MORE CONFIDENT LETTING HOOSIERS INVEST IN WHAT THEY NEED.

I ALSO THINK, YOU KNOW, AS MENTIONED MULTIPLE TIMES, INFLATION IS REAL, LET'S IMPACT HOOSIER FAMILIES.

IT'S GREAT WE'RE GIVING BACK EVERY SINGLE HOOSIER TAXPAYER $125.

THAT CAN HELP WITH ADDITIONAL INCREASE IN COST AT THE GROCERY STORE, GAS STATION, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS.

LOOK, IT IS NOT UP TO US TO HOARD THE PEOPLE'S MONEY.

IT'S UP TO US TO GIVE IT BACK TO THEM, GIVE IT BACK TO THEM RESPONSIBLY.

$5 BILLION SURPLUS, A $2 BILLION STRUCTURAL SURPLUS, THERE IS MORE THAN ENOUGH DOLLARS AVAILABLE TO GIVE PEOPLE HEALTHY RETURN BACK TO THEM.

AND BE, AS, JON, AS YOU KNOW, I'VE HAD OPPORTUNITY TO AUTHOR A STATE BUDGET, I'M NOT GOING TO CUT OFF OUR NOSE TO SPITE OUR FACE, WE WANT TO THINK LONG-TERM, IT IS NOT ABOUT 2022, IT IS ABOUT LONG-TERM GROWTH, TOO.

I THINK IT'S -- THERE IS A FUNDAMENTAL DIFFERENCE IN OPINION, I THINK, AND DO BELIEVE IT IS THE GOVERNMENT'S MONEY OR THE PEOPLE'S AND WE BELIEVE THE PEOPLE'S.

>> TO TALK ABOUT EDUCATION, BEFORE WE WRAP UP, THAT IS THE BULK OF STATE SPENDING, AS A MATTER OF FACT.

HOW IS THAT FOR A SEGUE.

THERE SEEMS TO BE CONCERN NOT JUST ABOUT DOLLARS GOING INTO EDUCATION, BUT WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT, CRITICAL RACE THEORY, AND WE'VE HEARD SOME STATE OFFICIALS TALK ABOUT MARXIST IDEOLOGIES INTRODUCED IN THE CLASSROOM.

THINGS TAUGHT THAT SHOULDN'T BE OR PEOPLE MAY INTRUDE INTO AN EDUCATIONAL PROCESS THAT DOESN'T NEED INTRUSION?

>> YEAH, NO.

I HEARD YOU, JON, THANK YOU.

I THINK THE ISSUE REALLY BOILS DOWN TO INPUT FROM PARENTS.

AND THEIR ACCESS TO WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS AND HOW CAN PARENTS BE MORE INVOLVED.

WHAT CAN THEY DO.

THERE ARE WAYS OBVIOUSLY FOR PARENTS TO VOICE THEIR OPINIONS, WHETHER IT'S AT SCHOOL BOARD MEETINGS, THEY CAN RUN FOR SCHOOL BOARD.

THERE ARE CURRENTLY AS WE'RE SET UP NOW, I BELIEVE THERE ARE PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT AND CURRICULUM DECISIONS, AS WE SPEAK.

THERE IS A WAY IT IS SET UP CURRENTLY.

I'M CERTAINLY ALL FOR ANYTHING THAT WOULD ALLOW, OBVIOUSLY PARENTS' OPINIONS, THIS TYPE OF MATTER.

I PERSONALLY WILL TELL YOU THAT I'VE NEVER BEEN CONTACTED, OR NEVER BEEN PHONED, EMAILED FROM PARENTS CONCERNED ABOUT ANY PARTICULAR -- TO ME, THAT SIGNALS THAT EITHER THEY'RE WORKING DIRECTLY WITH THEIR SCHOOL BOARD OR THEIR SUPERINTENDENT, OR THEY HAVE THEIR OWN AVENUES IN WHICH TO CONVEY THEIR OPINIONS ON MATTERS, OR DISPLEASURE ON THINGS.

SO I KIND OF FEEL LIKE MAYBE -- AND I THINK -- I DIDN'T SEE ALL THE TESTIMONY THAT TOOK PLACE IN THE SENATE YESTERDAY.

BUT I DO KNOW THERE WERE SOME FOLKS THAT TESTIFIED THAT SAID THE SYSTEM AS WE HAVE NOW IS WORKING, THAT THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO VOICE THEIR OPINIONS ON MATTERS, AND THINGS HAVE CHANGED, AND SO I'M REALLY NOT SURE EXACTLY, ARE WE SEARCHING FOR A PROBLEM HERE?

>> FIRST WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHAT CRTS AND FIGURE OUT IF IT IS BEING TAUGHT.

SENATOR BRAY, YOU MENTIONED BECAUSE OF INTERPRETATIONS, UNFORTUNATELY, WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

I KNOW A LOT HAS GONE UNSAID.

AND WE'LL HAVE YOU BACK, I PROMISE, TO CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US.

AGAIN, MY GUESTS HAVE BEEN HOUSE SPEAKER TODD HUSTON OF FISHERS, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER, PHIL -- RODRIC BRAY OF MARTINSVILLE, AND GREG TAYLOR OF INDIANAPOLIS.

THE OVERALL THEME OF THIS SHOW, THE MORE THINGS CHANGE, THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME, RETURNS WITH INDIANA LAWMAKERS GREATEST EVER, ED FEIGENBAUM.

YOU'RE THE ONLY NEWS ANALYST WE'VE EVER HAD.

THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK FOR ANOTHER SEASON.

THIS SESSION, I THINK WE GOT A FLAVOR OF THIS WITH THE ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION.

THERE IS A LOT OF MOVING PIECES AND PARTS HERE.

TO MIX METAPHORS, THIS JIGSAW PUZZLE IS MORE COMPLICATED.

>> WE'VE BEEN DOING THIS 30 YEARS, EVERY YEAR YOU'VE GOT DIFFERENT KINDS OF ISSUES, DIFFERENT KINDS OF COMPONENTS, DIFFERENT KINDS OF PLAYERS, THIS YEAR WE'VE GOT SOME REALLY INTERESTING ELEMENTS, AN EXECUTIVE VERSUS LEGISLATIVE VIEW THAT'S BEEN SIMMERING FOR ABOUT A YEAR, BASED BACK TO LAST YEAR, DEALING WITH THE EMERGENCY POWERS, BUT REALLY, IT IS EFFECTIVELY INVOLVING ALL POWERS, YOU'VE GOT A LAMED UP GOVERNOR, A LEGISLATURE WITH A LOT OF NEWER MEMBERS THAT'S GOING TO BE FEELING ITS WAY, FEELING ITS OATS, AND IT TRANSFORMS PARTIES, SUPERMAJORITY CONTROL IN BOTH CHAMBERS, AND THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE, THAT THEY WOULD ALL BE ON THE SAME PAGE, BUT CERTAINLY NOT THE CASE.

I THINK PART OF THE REASON IS YOU'VE GOT A MUCH MORE SOCIALLY CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATURE, THAN YOU HAVE A GOVERNOR.

YOU'VE GOT THE DEMOCRATICS TRYING TO DRIVE A WEDGE BETWEEN THE MORE MODERATE GOVERNOR AND THE SOCIALLY CONSERVATIVE LEGISLATORS, AND THOSE SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES IN THE LEGISLATURE, PARTICULARLY IN THE HOUSE, ARE REALLY GAINING INFLUENCE.

YOU'VE GOT A SITUATION ALMOST LIKE WHAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT WITH THE GOVERNOR BEING MORE MODERATE THAN THE LEGISLATURE.

THE LEADERS OF THE LEGISLATURE THAT YOU JUST HAD ON WERE MORE MODERATE THAN THEIR MEMBERS BUT THEY ALSO REALIZE THEY HAVE TO REFLECT THEIR CAUCUS, IN THE PAST, YOU HAD LEADERS STAND UP A LITTLE BIT MORE TO THE MEMBERS.

BUT WITH THE GROWING NUMBERS, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT, AND THEY ARE MUCH MORE REFLECTIVE OF THE CAUCUS THAN THEY WERE IN THE PAST.

>> HOW DOES THIS END?

THAT'S WHY WE PAY YOU BIG BUCKS.

>> YOU'VE GOT TO WATCH FOR THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS ISSUES, AND HOW THAT PLAYS OUT.

YOU'VE GOT THE GUN ISSUE, THE SCHOOL SOCIAL CONSERVATIVE ISSUES.

>> MAYBE ABORTION.

>> YEAH.

AND YOU ALSO HAVE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE LESS ON THE SURFACE, AND THINGS DEALING WITH AGENCY AUTHORITY, AND ALL THAT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO BRING UNDER CONTROL.

SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WATCH TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT.

REMEMBER, THE PRIMARY THIS YEAR IS MUCH EARLIER THAN USUAL, MAY 3rd, LEGISLATORS RUNNING FOR THE FIRST TIME IN NEW DISTRICTS, NEW CHALLENGERS COMING IN, THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE PAYING ATTENTION IN THE LEGISLATURE TO WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE FILING OF NEW CANDIDATES.

>> AND I'LL TELL YOU I'M GLAD WE HAVE YOU AROUND TO HELP MAKE SENSE OF IT ALL.

THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK THIS SEASON, LOOKING FORWARD TO HEARING YOUR INSIGHTS, AS WE PROGRESS, ON THE NEXT INDIANA LAWMAKERS, WE EXAMINE THE 2022 STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS WITH THE MAN WHO DELIVERS IT, GOVERNOR ERIC HOLCOMB.

YOU CAN ACCESS ON THE INTERNET AS WELL, AND REMEMBER, YOU CAN GET OUR SHOW ON DEMAND FROM XFINITY.

THAT CONCLUDES ANOTHER EDITION OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, I'M JON SCHWANTES, ON BEHALF OF WFYI, I THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, I