>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Nash: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, NO FEDS, NO PROBLEM?

ALBUQUERQUE POLICE CHIEF HAROLD MEDINA SAYS PEOPLE SHOULD EXPECT COPS TO FOLLOW THE CONSTITUTION, EVEN AFTER AN 11-YEAR U.S. JUSTICE DEPARTMENT MANDATED REFORM PROJECT HAS ENDED.

>> Medina: WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO WHERE WE WERE.

WE'VE BUILT A STRONG DEPARTMENT THAT HAS ACCOUNTABILITY, THAT BELIEVES IN CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING AND THAT IS LOWERING CRIME.

>> Nash: AND A CITY COUNSELOR, A CIVIL RIGHTS LAWYER, AND THE PARENTS OF A MAN WHO APD OFFICERS KILLED DETAIL THE MASSIVE TASK AHEAD TO ENSURE THOSE CHANGES STICK.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

WELCOME TO NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS.

I'M NASH JONES.

THANKS FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK FOR PART TWO AT THE LOOK OF THE END OF MORE THAN A DECADE OF FEDERAL OVERSIGHT OF THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

LAST WEEK, WE HONED IN ON THE QUESTION OF WHETHER THIS EFFORT WORKED AS INTENDED.

WE HEARD ABOUT THE COURT DOCUMENT OF MANY NAMES.

THE COURT APPROVED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT OR CASA, ALSO CALLED THE CONSENT DECREE OR SIMPLY THE SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT.

WE LEARNED WHAT IT REQUIRED OF APD, WHY, AND WHAT CHANGES THE DEPARTMENT MADE WHILE IT WAS IN PLACE.

THIS WEEK, WE LOOK AT A POST-DOJ ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AND ASK, WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

WE WELCOME RENETTA AND STEVE TORRES WHOSE SON CHRISTOPHER APD SHOT AND KILLED IN 2011, AND WHO FOUGHT FOR YEARS TO CHANGE POLICING IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

THEY SHARE THEIR HOPES AND CONCERNS FOR THE FUTURE.

WITH THE FEDS OUT OF THE PICTURE, ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCIL WILL BE A KEY PLAYER IN KEEPING THE DEPARTMENT ACCOUNTABLE.

WE LEARN THE PRIORITIES OF COUNSELOR NICHOLE ROGERS, WHO REPRESENTS THE HEAVILY POLICED INTERNATIONAL DISTRICT NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE ALSO HEAR FROM CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY MARK FINE ABOUT WHAT IT WILL TAKE TO KEEP THE SCAFFOLDING BUILT ON THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S WATCH UPRIGHT AND STURDY.

BUT FIRST, I SIT BACK DOWN WITH ALBUQUERQUE POLICE CHIEF HAROLD MEDINA, TO GET HIS PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT LIES AHEAD FOR HIM, HIS DEPARTMENT, AND THE COMMUNITY IT POLICES.

CHIEF MEDINA, WELCOME BACK.

>> Medina: THANK YOU.

>> Nash: IN A STATEMENT, THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR CIVIL RIGHTS, HARMEET DHILLON, STATED, QUOTE, THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE OPERATES CONSTITUTIONALLY.

IT IS NOW APPROPRIATE TO END FEDERAL OVERSIGHT AND RETURN FULL CONTROL OF LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT TO THE CITY.

WHAT IS STEP ONE FOR YOU AS YOU TAKE BACK FULL CONTROL OF YOUR DEPARTMENT?

>> Medina: YOU KNOW, THE FIRST THING IS TO ASSURE THE PUBLIC WE'RE NOT GOING BACK TO WHERE WE WERE IN 2009, '10, '11, '12, BEFORE THAT.

WE'VE BUILT A STRONG DEPARTMENT THAT HAS ACCOUNTABILITY, THAT BELIEVES IN CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING AND THAT IS LOWERING CRIME.

AND THAT'S THE THING TO REMEMBER IS WE HAVE A GOOD COMBINATION OF SUCCESS RIGHT THERE.

MAY WE MODIFY PROCESSES AND STREAMLINE PROCESSES TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR OUR OFFICERS?

ABSOLUTELY.

MAY WE LOOK AT POLICIES TO SEE HOW THEY MAKE MORE SENSE FOR ALBUQUERQUE?

ABSOLUTELY.

BUT THE CORE FUNDAMENTALS OF US CONSTITUTIONALLY POLICING, USING FORCE ONLY WHEN NECESSARY, AND ENFORCING THAT WHEN-- AND ENSURING THAT WHEN WE USE FORCE WE HAVE A STRONG INVESTIGATION THAT GETS OUT THE FACTS ARE GOING TO BE THE PILLAR OF WHAT WILL KEEP THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT AS WE MOVE FORWARD SUCCESSFULLY.

>> Nash: SO, NO SEISMIC SHIFTS ANTICIPATED?

>> Medina: NO SEISMIC SHIFTS ANTICIPATED.

>> Nash: LOOKING AGAIN AT THE CULTURE OF APD, I WANT TO SHOW VIEWERS A LAPEL CAMERA RECORDING FROM LAST APRIL.

CAPTURED IMMEDIATELY AFTER AN OFFICER SHOT AND KILLED A MAN NAMED MARK BENAVIDEZ OUTSIDE A WALMART.

WE'LL PLAY THAT CLIP.

>> Officer: I LIKE VIOLENT ENCOUNTERS WITH VIOLENT PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHY I BECAME A COP.

I DIDN'T BECOME A COP TO HELP OLD LADIES ACROSS THE [BLEEP] ROAD.

I WANT TO TAKE ACTUAL [BLEEP] THAT ARE ACTUALLY DOING STUFF OFF THE STREETS.

IF THAT MEANS WE SHOOT SOME OF THEM, SO BE IT.

MY ONLY CONCERN COMING OUT OF HERE WAS THAT HE WAS BLACK.

LITERALLY.

JUST BECAUSE THE OPTICS OF IT-- >> Officer: OH, I KNOW.

ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW.

>> Officer: YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

IF IT WASN'T THAT [BLEEP] HONKY OUT HERE SHOOTING PEOPLE -- WITH HIS WEIRD-ASS ACCENT.

THEY NEVER TURNED MY [BLEEP] CAMERA OFF.

>> Nash: CHIEF, THE OFFICERS USED RACIAL SLURS.

THEY INSULT A PERSON THEY JUST KILLED.

THEY SAY THEY LIKE VIOLENT ENCOUNTERS.

WHAT DO YOU SAY TO A PUBLIC WHO SEES THAT AND REMAINS CONCERNED ABOUT APD'S CULTURE?

>> Medina: YOU KNOW, I WOULD LOOK AT HOW THE SITUATION WAS HANDLED, NUMBER ONE.

THEY ALSO MADE DISCOURAGING COMMENTS TOWARDS NATIVE AMERICANS.

AND WE'VE POSITIONED OURSELF AS A POLICE DEPARTMENT THROUGH OUR STRONG LEADERSHIP AND OUR COMMITMENT TO THE COMMUNITY THAT I WAS ABLE TO MAKE PHONE CALLS TO MOST TRIBAL LEADERS AND ENSURE THEM THAT THIS WOULD BE HANDLED.

IN 2014, WHEN WE HAD A HORRIBLE INCIDENT ON THE SIDE OF A MOUNTAIN, WHAT DID WE SEE?

PROTESTS IN THE STREET OF ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Nash: YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE JAMES BOYD CASE?

>> Medina: YES.

PROTESTS IN THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE.

AND MANY TIMES, WE'VE SEEN THOSE SAME PROTESTS.

DO WE SEE ANY PROTESTS OVER THIS INCIDENT?

NO, BECAUSE WE HAD STRONG RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE TRIBAL COMMUNITIES.

BECAUSE EACH MONTH, I BELIEVE IN INCLUDING EVERYBODY FROM THIS STATE IN ALBUQUERQUE'S MISSION AND OFFERING OUR SUPPORT.

AND EACH MONTH, WE HAVE A TRIBAL CHIEF'S MEETING.

AND EACH TRIBAL CHIEF IS INVITED EACH MONTH TO COME TO ALBUQUERQUE, SO WE CAN WORK TOGETHER.

SO, WE HANDLED IT WITH PUBLIC BACKLASH.

WE WERE ABLE TO COMMUNICATE BECAUSE STRONG RELATIONSHIPS.

THAT WAS PART OF THE CONSENT DECREE.

COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT, WE TALKED ABOUT THAT EARLIER.

LET'S BREAK THAT INTO ONE PIECE.

WE HAD A STRONG RELATIONSHIP WITH THE COMMUNITY.

WE WORKED WITH THEM.

WE COMMUNICATED WITH THEM THAT THERE WOULD BE WHAT?

ACCOUNTABILITY.

AND WE DID AN INTERNAL INVESTIGATION.

WE HELD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

THEY WERE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

NOT ONLY THAT, WE TOOK A NEXT STEP.

THAT ENTIRE DIVISION WENT THROUGH A CULTURAL AWARENESS TRAINING THROUGH THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

AND THEY LEARNED IT.

>> Nash: HAVE YOU BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE COALITION TO STOP VIOLENCE AGAINST NATIVE WOMEN?

I KNOW THEY EXPRESSED CONCERN THAT YOU HADN'T CALLED THEM BACK.

>> Medina: WE'VE MET WITH SEVERAL GROUPS.

IF THERE'S ONE GROUP THAT WE HAVEN'T MET WITH SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, SOMEWHERE SOMEBODY MISSED A COMMUNICATION, WE CAN.

BUT I'VE MET WITH COUNTLESS GROUPS.

I'VE SPOKE TO LEADERSHIP FROM THE SPECIFIC TRIBES.

AND OTHER TRIBAL AGENCY.

AND I ASSURED THEM.

AND THERE WILL ALWAYS POSSIBLY BE THAT ONE GROUP THAT IS UPSET WITH US OR WE DIDN'T HANDLE THE SITUATION.

BUT AS A WHOLE, HAS ANYBODY HEARD THE TRIBE ITSELF IN THIS SITUATION?

>> Nash: WHAT YOU WERE TALKING TO THE TRIBES ABOUT WAS HOW THE SITUATION WAS HANDLED.

SO, HOW WAS IT HANDLED?

WHAT DID DISCIPLINE LOOK LIKE FOR THESE OFFICERS?

AND WHO WERE THEY?

>> Medina: OBVIOUSLY, WE CAN'T GO INTO DETAILS OF DISCIPLINE IN THIS MATTER.

AND I DON'T HAVE THE EXACT CASE FILE.

>> Nash: IT'S BEEN THE POLICY OF THE CITY AND APD, SINCE THE BERRY ADMINISTRATION, TO DISCLOSE ISSUES.

>> Medina: YES, THEY WERE DISCIPLINED.

I WASN'T PREPARED TO COME HERE, AND I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT AMOUNT OF DISCIPLINE THEY RECEIVED.

BUT THEY DID RECEIVE SUSPENSIONS.

>> Nash: SUSPENSIONS?

>> Medina: YES.

>> Nash: BUT THEY STILL WORK FOR THE DEPARTMENT?

>> Medina: YES.

BECAUSE AS I EXPLAINED IN THE PAST TO OTHER ENTITIES, WE HAVE A COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT.

PART OF THE DOJ PROCESS THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT SO MUCH EARLIER -- DO YOU REMEMBER WHEN I TALKED ABOUT FAIR, CONSISTENT DISCIPLINE?

>> Nash: MM-HMM.

>> Medina: THESE POLICY VIOLATIONS FELL WITHIN A CERTAIN GUIDELINE.

AND WE MUST FOLLOW OUR GUIDELINES ESTABLISHED AND ENSURE THAT THERE'S FAIR, CONSISTENT DISCIPLINE.

AND ALTHOUGH I'M HEARTBROKEN OVER THE COMMENTS, LET'S NOT FORGET COMMANDER MEDINA RETIRED FROM APD AND HAD A WONDERFUL CAREER AS THE CHIEF OF POLICE AT THE PUEBLO OF LAGUNA.

MET ONE OF THE TRIBAL MEMBERS YESTERDAY EVENING.

WE HAD A CONVERSATION.

I WAS HEARTBROKEN OVER THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE.

I DIDN'T AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE.

BUT WHAT DID WE DO?

WE CONTINUED OUR STRONG RELATIONSHIP AND COMMUNICATION WITH THE NATIVE AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

>> Nash: ABSENT THOSE UNION RESTRICTIONS, WOULD YOU HAVE FIRED THEM THROUGH THE HEARTBREAK THAT YOU FELT AROUND THEIR BEHAVIOR?

>> Medina: QUITE POSSIBLY, YES.

>> Nash: I WANT TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THE FUTURE OF APD POST-CONSENT DECREE.

MANY OF THE REQUIREMENTS ARE NOW CODIFIED IN ALBUQUERQUE CITY ORDINANCE.

A NUMBER OF OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY STRUCTURES WERE BORNE OUT OF THE CASA, INCLUDING STRENGTHENING CIVILIAN POLICE OVERSIGHT, A NEW COMMUNITY POLICING COUNCIL OR SEVERAL, AND A MENTAL HEALTH RESPONSE ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

WHAT WILL CHANGE FOR THESE ACCOUNTABILITY BODIES NOW THAT THE DOJ HAS LEFT TOWN?

>> Medina: THOSE ARE ALL ON THE CITY COUNCIL SIDE, SO MYSELF, THE ADMINISTRATION, WE DO NOT CONTROL.

I RECOMMEND, AND I HOPE, THEY KEEP THEM ALL INTACT.

AND THEY KEEP THEM MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ON THE APD SIDE IS I THOUGHT THROUGH THIS.

AND I WANTED TO ENSURE THAT EVERYTHING WE'VE BUILT HAD A CHANCE OF SURVIVING.

AND THAT WE HAD SOMEBODY STILL LOOKING AT THINGS.

SO, MYSELF AND THE MAYOR HAD A CONVERSATION AND WE CAME UP WITH THE FACT THAT APD SHOULD HAVE INTERNAL MONITORS, SUCH AS THE MONITORS FROM THE MONITORING TEAM.

AND WE DID.

WE CREATED A MONITOR THAT OVERSEES THREE KEY PARTS.

ONE MONITOR OVERSEES OUR TRAINING AND POLICY DEPARTMENT -- FORMER JUDGE SHARON WALTON.

JUDGE VALDEZ OVERSEES DISCIPLINE TO ENSURE THAT IT'S FAIR, CONSISTENT AND THE OUTCOMES ARE WHAT THEY NEED TO BE.

AND WE FOUND A USE OF FORCE EXPERT OUT OF LAS VEGAS, NEVADA.

AND HE OVERSEES OUR USE OF FORCES AND REVIEWS THEM TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE CONTINUING TO REVIEW STUFF AT A HIGH LEVEL.

>> Nash: AND THEY'LL STAY IN PLACE.

HOW ARE THINGS GOING WITH THAT TEAM?

>> Medina: IT'S GREAT.

I SPEAK TO CHRIS DARCY EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE, AND WE'VE ACTUALLY GOTTEN IDEAS ON HOW WE COULD IMPROVE PROCESSES.

AND WE'VE LOOKED AT PROCESSES THEY PUT IN PLACE IN LAS VEGAS METRO.

AND HOW WE CAN INCORPORATE IT.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE BIG SUCCESSES WE HAVE IS WE'VE DEVELOPED A NATIONWIDE NETWORK THAT WE CAN RELY ON OTHER BIG AGENCIES TO HELP US IMPROVE AND LOOK.

AND WE'VE DEVELOPED A STRONG SENSE OF PURE EXCHANGE WHERE WE VISIT SUCCESS.

I HAVE TWO DEPUTY CHIEFS AS WE SPEAK AT LAPD RIGHT NOW REVIEWING THEIR COMPSTAT PROCESS.

WE'VE SENT OFFICERS TO MIAMI TO REVIEW THEIR ROBBERY PROCESSES.

LAS VEGAS METRO HELPS WITH HOMICIDE CLEARANCE RATES.

SO, I THINK AS WE'VE GROWN AS A DEPARTMENT AND AS WE'VE EMBRACED OUR POTENTIAL ROLES IN THIS COUNTRY THROUGH MAJOR CITY CHIEFS, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO DEVELOP PARTNERSHIPS WHERE WE HELP ENSURE THAT WE HAVE BEST PRACTICES ALL ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> Nash: IS THE ROLE OF THIS MONITORING TEAM TO HELP MAINTAIN A STATUS QUO THAT YOU ALL HIT THROUGH THE CONSENT DECREE PROCESS?

OR IS IT TO CONTINUE IMPROVING THROUGH THE YEARS?

>> Medina: I THINK THAT'S WHY IT WAS KEY THAT WE GOT OUTSIDE INDIVIDUALS AND ONE OF THE KEY PIECES IS JUDGE WALTON AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO ADOPT POLICY AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO IMPROVE.

I RECENTLY MET WITH HER.

AND I TOLD HER I WANT HER SEEING POLICIES AT THE FRONT END.

AND I WANT TO ENSURE-- AND SHE HAD THE IDEA WE NEED TO BUILD STRONG REASONS FOR SOP AND EXPLAINING IT RIGHT OFF THE BAT SO WE HAVE A GOOD, STRONG DEFINITION, SO WE CAN APPLY IT PROPERLY.

>> Nash: SO, IT SOUNDS LIKE WHEN THEY'RE FINDING SOME OF THESE THINGS THEY'RE COMING TO YOU WITH THEM.

UNDER THE CONSENT DECREE, THERE WAS AN INDEPENDENT MONITOR WITH REGULAR REPORTS THAT WERE PUBLISHED ONLINE THAT THE PUBLIC COULD ACCESS.

A FEDERAL JUDGE WAS MAKING THE CALL ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE DONE AND WHAT SHOULD BE CHANGED.

WHAT IS A SIMILAR MECHANISM FOR THIS MONITORING TEAM?

HOW DOES THE PUBLIC FIND OUT ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE DISCOVERING, AND WHO MAKES THE CALL ABOUT WHAT TO DO ABOUT ANY KIND OF CHANGES THEY RECOMMEND?

>> Medina: YOU KNOW, I'M GOING TO TAKE BACK-- I LOVE YOUR CONCEPT.

AND IF WE AREN'T PUTTING OUT A GOOD, STRONG REPORT FROM THEM ONCE A YEAR, WE SHOULD.

WE SHOULD PUT OUT A REPORT OF WHAT THEY'RE SEEING.

I COMPLETELY SUPPORT THAT.

AND I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR THE PUBLIC TO KNOW WHAT THEY'RE SEEING.

BUT I THINK THERE'S OTHER PIECES.

WE NOW HAVE A SIX-MONTH REVIEW WHERE I HAVE DEPUTY CHIEFS AND I REVIEW EVERY OFFICER-INVOLVED SHOOTING FROM THE PREVIOUS SIX MONTHS.

AND I WANT A QUICK LIST OF RECOMMENDATIONS OF HOW WE CAN DO THINGS BETTER TO PREVENT THAT.

THAT IS THE CULTURE AND THE MINDSET THAT WE TALK ABOUT BEING PROACTIVE AND CHANGING THINGS.

SO, I KNOW WE HAVE THESE INDIVIDUAL MONITORS, BUT WE ALSO HAVE OTHER MECHANISMS.

EACH WEEK, I GET A LIST OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS CASES AND IT BREAKS DOWN WHAT ARE OUR TRENDS.

AND EACH WEEK I ASK MAJORS AND DEPUTY CHIEFS TO TELL ME WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST TRENDS WE'RE SEEING IN DISCIPLINE?

HOW DO WE START CORRECTING THIS?

>> Nash: HOW DOES THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND WHAT THOSE TRENDS ARE?

UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SEEING?

>> Medina: CONSTANT COMMUNICATION WITH THE PUBLIC.

CONSTANT LEADERSHIP FROM THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT.

IF THERE'S ONE THING THAT I THINK HAS SET US APART AND BUILT PUBLIC TRUST FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER, WE JUST WENT THROUGH DWI SCANDAL AND OUR DATA IS SHOWING OUR PUBLIC TRUST IS BACK UP TO WHERE IT WAS PRIOR.

OR EVEN HIGHER.

>> Nash: BUT GINGER'S REPORTS WERE PUBLISHED ONLINE QUARTERLY.

NOW, IN THIS NEW ERA OF APD, FOR THE PUBLIC WHO IS FOLLOWING ALONG THAT WANTS TO ENGAGE WITH YOUR DEPARTMENT IN THAT WAY, IS THERE A WAY FOR THEM TO REGULARLY GET AN UPDATE?

>> Medina: HOW MANY GINGER REPORTS DID YOU READ?

>> Nash: A NUMBER.

BUT I'M A REPORTER.

SO, I'M INVOLVED IN THIS KIND OF WORK.

YOUR GENERAL PUBLIC MEMBER DOESN'T NECESSARILY ENGAGE.

>> Medina: EXACTLY.

THAT IS MY POINT.

THE GENERAL PUBLIC DID NOT READ THOSE REPORTS.

AND I THINK IT IS IMPERATIVE.

>> Nash: I THINK THERE ARE PROBABLY PBS VIEWERS WHO ARE LISTENING RIGHT NOW WHO ARE WATCHING RIGHT NOW WHO DID READ IT.

AND WERE ENGAGED.

>> Medina: BUT THE GENERAL PUBLIC, AS A WHOLE, DIDN'T READ THE REPORTS.

>> Nash: SO IS THAT A REASON TO NOT HAVE REPORTS AVAILABLE?

>> Medina: NO, I THINK THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO BE BEYOND JUST REPORTS.

>> Nash: SO, WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

>> Medina: I THINK IT'S WHAT WE'VE DONE AS A POLICE DEPARTMENT.

LEADERSHIP THAT IS OUT FRONT TALKING ABOUT THESE TOPICS.

NOT AFRAID TO DISCUSS THESE TOPICS.

NOT AFRAID TO TAKE OWNERSHIP WHEN THE DEPARTMENT DOES WRONG.

NOT AFRAID TO HAVE A PRESS CONFERENCE AFTER EVERY SINGLE OFFER-INVOLVED SHOOTING.

NOT AFRAID TO SAY WE'RE REVIEWING THIS AND SAYING WE'RE CHANGING THINGS.

THE CITY AND THE DEPARTMENT NEED CONSISTENT LEADERSHIP, OVER TIME, THAT HAS THE CULTURE BUILT IN IT THAT IT WILL EXPLAIN, COMMUNICATE AND WORK WITH THE PUBLIC AND TAKE OWNERSHIP WHEN IT NEEDS TO AND MAKE CHANGES WHEN IT NEEDS TO.

>> Nash: IS THAT A MESSAGE OF TRUST US?

YOU KNOW, THIS IS YOUR ACCOUNT RATHER THAN AN INDEPENDENT MONITOR'S ACCOUNT?

>> Medina: OUR SIX-MONTH SHOOTING REVIEWS, WE POST THEM ONLINE.

THIS IS WHAT WE SAW IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS.

I THINK WE'RE BEHIND ONE RIGHT NOW THAT WE NEED TO GET POSTED UP.

BUT WE POST THOSE REPORTS.

WE'RE TRANSPARENT.

WE GIVE A LOT OF INFORMATION SO THAT THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS.

>> Nash: SPEAKING OF ACCOUNTABILITY, YOU HAVE THE PUBLIC THAT CAN BE A PART OF HOLDING THE DEPARTMENT ACCOUNTABLE.

YOU ALSO HAVE THE CITY COUNCIL.

YOU HAVE THE MAYOR'S OFFICE.

WHAT WILL THEIR ROLE BE GOING FORWARD IN TERMS OF APD ACCOUNTABILITY?

>> Medina: WELL, I THINK THAT ONE GOOD THING WITH MAYOR KELLER IS HE IS COMMITTED TO US CONTINUING TO ENSURE THAT WE'RE A CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING POLICE DEPARTMENT.

COMMITTED TO ENSURING THAT LEADERSHIP IS FRONT OF PROBLEMS.

COMMITTED TO ENSURING THAT WE HAVE ACS OUT THERE TO ASSIST US.

SO, CURRENTLY, IF YOU LOOK WHERE WE ARE CURRENTLY IS WE DO HAVE THE ACCOUNTABILITY THERE WITH THE MAYOR'S OFFICE.

YOU LOOK AT CITY COUNCIL, YES, THERE ARE CRITICS OF MINE ON CITY COUNCIL THAT I WILL NEVER GET PAST.

BUT IF YOU LOOK, EVEN CITY COUNCIL AS A WHOLE, THEIR BIGGEST COMPLAINTS ARE AGAINST ME NOT THE OFFICERS.

>> Nash: YOU MENTIONED HAVING YOUR CRITICS ON CITY COUNCIL.

YOU WERE REPRIMANDED RECENTLY FOR NOT OPERATING YOUR VEHICLE SAFELY IN A CAR A CRASH.

IT CRITICALLY INJURED THE OTHER DRIVER, AND FOR NOT TURNING YOUR BODY CAMERA ON.

CITY COUNCIL ALSO MOVED THROUGH A CHARTER AMENDMENT THAT VOTERS APPROVED THAT WILL GO INTO EFFECT NEXT YEAR.

IT BASICALLY ALLOWS CITY COUNCIL TO FIRE A POLICE CHIEF WITH SEVEN OF NINE VOTES.

WHAT SHOULD ACCOUNTABILITY LOOK LIKE FOR YOUR ROLE, FOR THE CHIEF'S ROLE, MOVING FORWARD FROM CITY COUNCIL?

>> Medina: I THINK THAT CITY COUNCIL NEEDS TO REMEMBER THEY'RE AN EMPLOYER.

AND EMPLOYERS HAVE DUTIES THEY NEED TO FOLLOW.

AND THEY'VE TAKEN THIS STEP.

THEY ALREADY HAD SOME AUTHORIZATION.

REMEMBER, THIS INCREASED THE NUMBER OF CITY COUNCILORS WHO HAD TO APPROVE THE TERMINATION OF A CHIEF.

THE PUBLIC APPROVED FOR US TO GO FROM SIX COUNCILORS WHO COULD FIRE A CHIEF.

THEY APPROVED FOR US TO MOVE IT UP TO SEVEN.

SO, IT MADE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO FIRE A CHIEF.

THEY DID PUT A FOR NO CAUSE ASPECT ON THERE.

AND THEY DID GIVE THE MAYOR THE FULL RIGHT TO GET RID OF A CHIEF WITHOUT ANY RAMIFICATIONS.

BUT I THINK THAT ONE THING CITY COUNCIL IS GOING TO HAVE TO LEARN ON THIS IS WHEN YOU'RE AN EMPLOYER, WHAT ARE THE BOUNDARIES YOU HAVE IN HOW YOU TREAT AN EMPLOYEE PUBLICLY?

>> Nash: WHAT DO YOU THINK THOSE BOUNDARIES SHOULD BE?

>> Medina: THOSE BOUNDARIES ARE PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

THEY'RE NOT MY BOUNDARIES.

THOSE BOUNDARIES ARE SET BY STATE LAW AND FEDERAL LAW.

AND THAT'S WHAT CITY COUNCIL IS GOING TO HAVE TO FOLLOW IN THE FUTURE AND SHOULD BE FOLLOWING CURRENTLY ON HOW YOU TREAT AN EMPLOYEE.

>> Nash: YOU FEEL THAT THEY'RE CROSSING THAT BOUNDARY?

>> Medina: WITHOUT A DOUBT.

>> Nash: APD HAS LONG STRUGGLED WITH UNDERSTAFFING ISSUES.

RECRUITMENT HAS BEEN A PART OF YOUR FOCUS AS CHIEF.

MAYOR KELLER TOLD KUNM, MY FORMER EMPLOYER, THAT THE DEPARTMENT'S STAFFING GOALS WERE UNREALISTIC.

NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN.

HOW WILL THE END OF DOJ OVERSIGHT AFFECT YOUR RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION EFFORTS?

>> Medina: WE'VE ALREADY SEEN CHANGES.

WE KNOW NOTICED THAT AS WE GOT CLOSER TO THE FINISH LINE, AS WE TALKED ABOUT THE DEPARTMENT GETTING OUT OF THIS, WE STARTED SEEING AN INCREASE IN RECRUITING.

AND WE ARE REALLY STRONGLY ON PACE TO HAVE A THOUSAND OFFICERS BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

REMEMBER, WE'RE FUNDED ONE THOUSAND OFFICERS.

WE CURRENTLY HAVE 890 SWORN OFFICERS IN THE STREET.

WE HAVE ANOTHER 64 IN TRAINING.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

THAT TAKES US UP TO 954 OF FUNDED POSITIONS WITH TWO MORE ACADEMY CLASSES.

SO, WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF-- BECAUSE WE HAVE TO USE OUR FUNDING FOR OFFICERS FOR THOSE THAT ARE IN TRAINING.

SO, YES, WE HAVE A BIG BULK OF INDIVIDUALS IN TRAINING, WHICH IS A GOOD THING.

>> Nash: DO YOU THINK BEING A DEPARTMENT WITHOUT DOJ OVERSIGHT MAKES A MARKED DIFFERENCE?

>> Medina: I'VE ALREADY HAD TWO RETIRED OFFICERS CALL ME IN THE LAST WEEK SAYING THEY WANT TO RETURN TO APD AS OFFICERS AND CONTINUE THEIR CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Nash: IN RESPONSE TO THE UNDERSTAFFING, YOU ALSO REQUESTED NATIONAL GUARD SUPPORT FOR YOUR OFFICERS.

THE GOVERNOR GRANTED THAT.

DO YOU THINK THAT HAVING SOLDIERS IN ROLES THAT APD OFFICERS ALREADY WOULD BE IN WILL HARM, AT ALL, THE COMMUNITY TRUST THAT YOU'VE WORKED TO BUILD THROUGH THIS PROCESS?

>> Medina: I DON'T VIEW IT AS I HAVE SOLDIERS.

ME AND GENERAL AGUILAR WERE REALLY SPECIFIC WHEN WE HAD CONVERSATIONS.

AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE COMING ARE FROM ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Nash: BUT THEY ARE SOLDIERS.

THEY'RE NATIONAL GUARDSMEN.

>> Medina: THEY'RE NATIONAL GUARDSMEN WHO CARE ABOUT THIS CITY, WHO WANT TO HELP THIS CITY.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE DRESSED AS SOLDIERS.

THEY'RE NOT ARRESTING ANYBODY.

THEY'RE NOT ANTICIPATED TO HAVE TO USE FORCE UNLESS THEY'RE DEFENDING THEIR OWN LIVES BECAUSE THEY HAD AN UNPROVOKED ATTACK.

THEY'RE INDIVIDUALS COMING TO HELP US DO WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS A GREAT PHILOSOPHY, WHICH IS WORK FOR US.

REMEMBER, EARLIER IN THESE CONVERSATIONS, WE TALKED ABOUT WE'RE ONE OF THE UNIQUE DEPARTMENTS WHO WERE UNDER CONSENT DECREE AND HAD CRIME BEING REDUCED.

WE HAVE DONE THAT IN A VARIETY OF WAYS.

AND ENSURING THAT WE SUPPORT OUR OFFICERS AND GET OUR OFFICERS OUT IN THE STREETS AND TAKE THEM AWAY FROM ADMINISTRATIVE TASKS OR DUTIES THAT OTHERS COULD HANDLE HAS BEEN OUR SUCCESS.

AND IF OUR NATIONAL GUARDSMEN, MEMBERS OF THIS COMMUNITY, CAN GO OUT THERE AND BLOCK AN INTERSECTION SO OFFICERS CAN GO OUT TO WORK, IF THEY CAN HELP US TAG EVIDENCE, I'M ALL FOR IT.

WE WERE BOLD EARLY IN THIS PROCESS WHEN I TOOK OVER AS CHIEF.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE CRITICIZED US AND SAID IT WOULD NEVER WORK.

WHEN WE HIRED CIVILIANS TO DO USE OF FORCE INVESTIGATIONS, OH, MY GOD, I THINK THE UNION-- SHAUN WAS ABOUT TO FALL OVER DEAD THAT WE WERE ABOUT TO DO THIS.

IT WAS GOING TO BE AN UTTER FAILURE, I THINK HE SAID AT ONE POINT IN TIME.

IT SUCCEEDED AND IT PUT US IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE DOJ.

AND WE MET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS.

WE GOT OUT OF IT.

WE'VE BEEN BOLD IN THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX.

WE'VE BEEN BOLD IN THINKING OUT OF HOW WE CAN REIMAGINE POLICING TO 2025.

AND IT'S BEEN A SUCCESS FOR US.

YOU KNOW WHAT, IF THIS DOESN'T WORK, WE'LL THANK THE GOVERNOR FOR THE RESOURCES.

THE NATIONAL GUARD CAN GO BACK TO THEIR EVERYDAY DAILY LIVES.

AND WE'LL FIND A NEW WAY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

AND WE'LL TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT TO SEE HOW WE CAN SUPPORT OUR OFFICERS TO GET BACK INTO THE STREETS.

>> Nash: AS WE KIND OF WRAP UP THIS LOOK AT THE FUTURE OF APD POST-DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OVERSIGHT, YOU HAVE MENTIONED THAT YOU MAY RETIRE AT THE END OF THE YEAR.

YOU THEN TOLD THE ALBUQUERQUE JOURNAL, LATE LAST YEAR, MAYBE THAT TIMELINE WASN'T GOING TO WORK BECAUSE YOU HAD A LOT THAT YOU WANTED TO FINISH UP.

WAS A LOT TO FINISH UP -- DID THAT INCLUDE THE CONSENT DECREE BEING DISMISSED?

>> Medina: YES.

IT DID.

>> Nash: SO, HAS YOUR TIMELINE CLARIFIED AT ALL?

>> Medina: NO.

I THINK APD IS IN A GREAT PLACE.

WE HAVE REDUCTIONS IN CRIME.

OUR RECRUITING IS DOING GREAT.

OUR OFFICERS ARE CONSTITUTIONALLY POLICING.

I SEE OUR OFFICERS WORKING WITH COMMUNITY MEMBERS.

I SEE RELATIONSHIPS WITH COMMUNITIES THAT FOR 30 YEARS DIDN'T EXIST.

I SEE THE BUILDING OF TRUST.

THERE'S SO MANY SUCCESSFUL THINGS GOING ON WITH APD.

APD-- >> Nash: SO YOU WANT TO STICK AROUND FOR THAT?

>> Medina: TIME WELL TELL.

>> Nash: OKAY.

I DO WANT TO ASK, WHEN THE TIME DOES COME, WHAT QUALITIES, WHAT VALUES, WHAT COMMITMENTS DOES THE NEXT POLICE CHIEF OF ALBUQUERQUE NEED TO HAVE?

>> Medina: YOU HAVE TO BE PRESENT.

YOU HAVE TO BE THE CHIEF.

YOU HAVE TO BE IN THE COMMUNITY.

YOU HAVE TO BE IN FRONT EXPLAINING WHAT THE ALBUQUERQUE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS DOING, AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THE GOOD AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THE BAD.

AND I THINK THAT A VISIBLE CHIEF IN THE COMMUNITY IS A CHIEF PEOPLE CAN RELATE TO AND THAT THEY KNOW IS WORKING HARD.

I GET STOPPED SEVERAL TIMES A DAY IN THE COMMUNITY.

AND THE NUMBER ONE COMMENT I HEAR IS WE THANK YOU FOR WORKING HARD AND ALWAYS BEING THERE TO EXPLAIN TO THE PUBLIC WHAT'S OCCURRING.

>> Nash: WE THANK YOU FOR SITTING FOR OUR QUESTIONS, CHIEF HAROLD MEDINA.

THANKS.

>> Medina: THANKS.

>> Fine: IT IS A VERY DELICATE THING TO HAVE THIS COMPLIANCE AND TO HAVE THIS SCAFFOLDING, THIS MECHANISM, FOR MONITORING USE OF FORCE IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S GOING TO TOTALLY DEPEND ON WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY CAN CONTINUE TO UPHOLD THESE MEASURES AND UPHOLD THIS TYPE OF OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY PROCESSES.

AND RIGHT NOW WE HAVE NO SENSE OF HOW IT'S GOING TO DO THAT.

>> Nash: THE CONSENT DECREE MIGHT BE OVER, BUT FOR ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS, THE LONG ROAD TO IMPROVING APD STILL NEEDS TO BE PAVED.

IN PART TWO OF OUR CONVERSATION, ROGERS TELLS ME THAT SOME OF THAT BURDEN IS GOING TO FALL ON THE COUNCIL.

AND SHE'S GOT SOME IDEAS OF HOW THAT MIGHT LOOK AND SOME PRIORITIES THAT STRETCH BEYOND THE PROBLEMS THAT FEDERAL OVERSIGHT WAS MEANT TO FIX.

ONE OF THOSE IS TO REALLY LEAN INTO THE IDEA OF SO-CALLED COMMUNITY POLICING.

ANOTHER IS TO GET A BETTER HANDLE ON POLICE DATA, WHICH ROGERS SAID COULD HELP TO SPOT POTENTIALLY PROBLEMATIC TRENDS.

HERE'S COUNCILOR ROGERS LOOKING TOWARDS THE DAYS, MONTHS, AND YEARS AHEAD FOR NEW MEXICO'S LARGEST LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY.

WITH THE DOJ OUT OF THE PICTURE NOW, HOW DOES CITY COUNCIL'S ROLE IN HOLDING APD ACCOUNTABLE CHANGE, IF AT ALL?

>> Rogers: WELL, WE STILL HAVE THE COMMUNITY POLICING OVERSIGHT AGENCY UNDER CITY COUNCIL.

WE STILL APPOINT THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE LOOKING OVER THOSE EXCESSIVE USE OF FORCE CASES.

SO, IT'S UP TO US.

I SEE IT AS UP TO US, IN ADDITION TO THE ADMINISTRATION.

BUT WE DON'T ALWAYS CONTROL THE ADMINISTRATION.

THERE'S DEFINITE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE EXECUTIVE AND LEGISLATIVE BODIES.

BUT WE DO HAVE OVERSIGHT.

SO, IT IS ON US TO MAKE SURE WE'RE PAYING ATTENTION, THAT WE'RE MAKING SURE TO GET REGULAR UPDATES FROM THE CPOA.

FOR ME, LOOKING AT DATA, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT REALLY GREAT AT IN POLICING.

LOOKING AT THE DATA AND MAKING DECISIONS BASED ON THE DATA AND NOT POLITICS.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO BE FOCUSED ON IS THAT WE'RE USING OUR RESOURCES THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITIES.

AND ALSO MAKING SURE WE'RE NOT VIOLATING CIVIL RIGHTS AND WE'RE NOT CONTINUING TO KILL PEOPLE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BOOST UP THE DEPARTMENTS LIKE ACS.

THAT'S WHAT IS REALLY GOING TO HELP US.

>> Nash: AND THAT'S ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SAFETY?

>> Nash: FOR THOSE UNFAMILIAR, DO YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT?

>> Rogers: YES, ALBUQUERQUE COMMUNITY SAFETY WAS REALLY PUT IN PLACE IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO WHAT WE SAW IN THE CONSENT DECREE WITH WHY-- WHAT THE CORRELATIONS WERE WITH WHY APD WAS KILLING SO MANY PEOPLE.

IT WAS CLEAR IT WAS FOLKS SUFFERING FROM MENTAL HEALTH CRISIS.

SO, ACS CAME AROUND TO BE THAT THIRD RESPONSE TO MENTAL A HEALTH CRISES SO THAT WE DON'T DISPATCH POLICE, WHICH HISTORICALLY IF YOU DO IN ALBUQUERQUE-- THAT'S WHAT I HEAR FROM CONSTITUENTS TOO, THEY'RE AFRAID TO CALL APD WHEN IT COMES TO MENTAL HEALTH SITUATIONS.

AND BECAUSE WE HAVE ACS, YOU CAN SEE THE CORRELATION DATA.

AS ACS CALLS VOLUME GOES UP, USE OF FORCE GOES DOWN FOR THESE MENTAL HEALTH CASES.

SO, I THINK THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO BE FOCUSING ON IS BOLSTERING ACS.

>> Nash: WHAT IS THE COUNCIL'S ROLE IN BOLSTERING IT?

>> Rogers: FUNDING.

FUNDING.

THEY NEED TO BE FUNDED AT THE SAME LEVEL AS APD AND THE SAME LEVEL AS AFR.

>> Nash: THE FIRE DEPARTMENT?

>> Rogers: YEAH, OUR FIRE DEPARTMENT.

AND REALLY SEEING THEM, IF THEY ARE TRULY THE THIRD ARM OF PUBLIC SAFETY, WHICH I BELIEVE THEY ARE, THEN WE NEED TO TREAT THEM THAT WAY.

AND BUDGET FOR THEM THAT WAY.

I DEFINITELY WANT TO DO MORE OF THAT ON COUNCIL.

>> Nash: IN YOUR CAMPAIGN IN 2023, YOU TOLD ME YOU WANTED TO CONTINUE AND BUILD ON THE WORK THAT YOU DID IN OFFICE OF EQUITY AND INCLUSION, WHICH IN PART, WAS TO IMPROVE POLICE RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION.

TO WHAT DEGREE DID DOJ OVERSIGHT, THE CONSENT DECREE, DETER PEOPLE FROM WANTING TO WORK FOR APD AND AFFECTED THESE RECRUITMENT NUMBERS?

>> Rogers: YOU KNOW, I DID A LOT OF WORK IN EQUITY AND INCLUSION LOOKING AT THE DATA, AND ASKING OFFICERS WHO TURNED DOWN OFFICERS TO APD WHY THEY DIDN'T COME TO APD OR CHOOSE TO ACCEPT THE OFFER.

AND TO BE FAIR, I TALKED TO ABOUT 20 OFFICERS THAT-- SO NOT A HUGE NUMBER.

BUT NONE OF THEM SAID THE CONSENT DECREE.

NOT ONE.

IT WAS OTHER FACTORS LIKE, YOU KNOW, I CAME FOR MY WEEK VISIT AND I DIDN'T-- I COULDN'T SEE MYSELF LIVING IN THIS COMMUNITY.

I DIDN'T GET TREATED LIKE-- THE CARPET WASN'T ROLLED OUT FOR ME LIKE IN OTHER CITIES.

>> Nash: DO YOU THINK APD DOES NEED MORE OFFICERS STILL?

>> Rogers: OH, YEAH.

I THINK THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT NO-- EVEN THE ADVOCATES WITH WHO- - FOLKS WHO ARE ANTI-POLICE ARE NOT NECESSARILY-- ARE VERY FOCAL ABOUT THE HISTORY OF POLICING IN THIS COUNTRY, THEY STILL WANT POLICE TO GO AFTER VIOLENT CRIMINALS.

THEY STILL-- WHEN THEY GET IN TROUBLE THEY STILL CALL 911 FOR HELP.

THE REALITY IS IN MY DISTRICT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH OFFICERS TO EVEN HANDLE THE 911 CALLS FOR SERVICE.

THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CALLING THE POLICE TO SAY COME AND HELP ME.

I WANT TO SEE US BE ABLE TO ADD TO OUR-- WE NEED ABOUT 300 MORE OFFICERS TO ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO MAKE SURE THE PERCEPTION OF SAFETY, MEANING IF I NEED YOU YOU'RE GOING TO COME AND YOU'RE GOING TO COME QUICK.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT HERE.

AT LEAST FOR THE PEOPLE WHO WANT THEM THERE WHO ARE CALLING 911.

YEAH, WE DO NEED MORE POLICE.

PERIOD.

>> Nash: IS SOME OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHERE THEY'RE ALLOCATED?

WHERE THEY'RE ASSIGNED?

>> Nash: BECAUSE UNDER THE CONSENT DECREE MORE OFFICERS WERE ASSIGNED TO BE REVIEWING INTERNAL AFFAIRS, AND USE OF FORCE AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

SO, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON HOW OFFICERS ARE ASSIGNED?

SHOULD MORE OFFICERS BE THE ONES RESPONDING TO CALLS, BE ON THE GROUND DOING THAT CRIME-FIGHTING WORK?

>> Rogers: JUST LOOKING AT NOW THAT WE JUST FINISHED THE BUDGET, AND DEEP DIVING INTO APD'S BUDGET, THEY HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES, I THINK, TO DO WHAT THEY NEED TO DO ON THE ADMIN SIDE, ON THE INVESTIGATIVE SIDE.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THE OFFICERS THAT ARE BOOTS-ON-THE-GROUND TAKING 911 CALLS.

THEY NEED THE RELIEF.

BECAUSE THERE'S SITUATIONS, FOR INSTANCE, WHEN I DID MY RIDE ALONG WITH APD, I DID IT DURING SWING SHIFT 12:00 P.M. TO 12:00 A.M.

THERE WAS THREE OFFICERS ON SHIFT.

THREE IN THE SOUTHEAST THAT DAY.

ONE OF THEM WAS ACTING SERGEANT, SO HE WASN'T TAKING 911 CALLS.

AND TO WATCH THESE OFFICERS-- THE ONE I WAS ON, WE HAD TO GO TO THE HOSPITAL TO DEAL WITH AN ACCIDENT.

AND WE WERE WAITING FOR A PATIENT TO WAKE UP TO TAKE A STATEMENT.

I'M GOING-- AND HE'S PACING.

LOOKING AT THE CALLS FOR SERVICE FOR 911 THAT HE CAN'T GO TO BECAUSE HE HAS TO SIT HERE AND WAIT.

WE COULDN'T HAVE SENT A DETECTIVE OR SOMEBODY?

THAT'S WHAT I MEAN BY HOW WE USE OUR RESOURCES.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT IN POLICING, BY ANY MEANS.

BUT THAT DAY, IT MADE IT CLEAR TO ME, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO DO WHAT WE NEED TO DO AT ALL.

AND THAT'S SCARY.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY I WANT COMMUNITY POLICING.

WE TALK ABOUT THAT ALL THE TIME.

BUT WE CAN'T DO COMMUNITY POLICING WHEN HALF OF OUR POLICE FORCE DON'T EVEN LIVE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Nash: HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE COMMUNITY POLICING?

>> Rogers: COMMUNITY POLICING IS SIMPLE.

YOU LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY YOU'RE POLICING.

YOU CANNOT HAVE COMMUNITY POLICING WITHOUT IT.

SO, WE CANNOT HAVE IT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE WITHOUT THAT.

SOME OF THE THINGS I WANT TO WORK ON IS DOWN PAYMENT ASSISTANCE FOR FIRST RESPONDERS.

NOT JUST APD, BUT AFR.

SOME OF OUR HARD-TO-FILL POSITIONS.

ONCE YOU'RE WITH THE CITY FOR TWO YEARS, WHY DON'T WE DO A RETENTION?

YOU GET A DOWN PAYMENT ON A HOME, BUT IT HAS TO BE IN ALBUQUERQUE, TO INCENTIVIZE THEM TO LIVE HERE.

THEN WE CAN GET TO COMMUNITY POLICING.

>> Nash: THE COUNCIL HAS ALREADY PUT IN ORDINANCE A NUMBER OF THE PIECES OF THE CONSENT DECREE.

HOW EFFECTIVELY DID THOSE PROTECT THE CITY FROM SEEING APD BACKSLIDE ON ANY OF THE PROGRESS IT'S MADE?

>> Rogers: I THINK THE CPOA, FOR COUNCIL, IS OUR MECHANISM TO DO THAT.

THAT IS IN ORDINANCE.

AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE OUR KEY TO MAKE SURE WE DON'T SEE ANY OF THE THINGS WE'VE PUT IN PLACE GO BACKWARDS.

I THINK IT'S REALLY HINGE ON MAKING SURE OUR INVESTIGATORS THAT-- COUNCIL SUPPORTS THAT OFFICE AND MAKES SURE THEY HAVE WHAT THEY NEED TO GET THROUGH THESE INVESTIGATIONS.

AND IN A TIMELY MANNER.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT WE PAY THE PEOPLE THAT ARE ON THE CPOA.

IT'S A LOT OF LABOR FOR THEM TO GO THROUGH THESE THINGS.

>> Nash: WHAT OTHER CHANGES AT APD FROM HERE ON OUT WOULD RAISE A FLAG FOR YOU?

IF YOU ARE KEEPING AN EYE ON THE DATA, YOU'RE KEEPING AN EYE ON POLICY CHANGES, WHAT WOULD CONCERN YOU IF YOU SAW FROM HERE ON WHAT WITHOUT THE DOJ'S OVERSIGHT?

>> Rogers: YEAH, I THINK IF WE SEE A CHANGE IN OUR USE OF FORCE CASES.

THE AMOUNT OF COMPLAINTS, IF WE SEE THOSE GO UP.

I THINK WE CAN SEE THAT-- WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON COUNCIL THAT THE COMPLAINTS ARE GOING UP.

I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S BECAUSE-- I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE ARE AWARE THAT THEY CAN.

AND WE'VE BEEN DOING A LOT OF EDUCATION AROUND SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING.

HERE'S HOW YOU CAN MAKE SURE YOU CAN KNOW WHAT RIGHTS YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE COMPLAINTS AND WHERE TO MAKE THOSE COMPLAINTS AND WHERE THE APPROPRIATE PLACE IS.

SO, I THINK AS WE'RE DOING THAT COMMUNITY EDUCATION, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IT RISE IN THOSE.

BUT BEING ABLE TO PINPOINT-- AND THAT'S THE THING I WISH WE WERE BETTER AT WITH DATA IS BEING ABLE TO PINPOINT.

WE DID AN INTERVENTION HERE, START ADVERTISING.

WE SAW THOSE COMPLAINTS GO UP, BUT THEY LEVELLED OUT BECAUSE THE EDUCATION WRAPPED UP.

WE CAN'T GET THAT NIMBLE.

>> Nash: THE DIRECT CORRELATION?

>> Rogers: YEAH, THAT DIRECT CORRELATION.

THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO BE WATCHING.

THE DOJ IS OUT.

HERE'S THE BASELINE.

AND LET'S FOLLOW AND MAKE SURE.

THAT'S WHAT I'M ASKING OUR TEAM TO DO IN COUNCIL IS JUST TRACK, SO WE KNOW WHAT THE BASELINE IS NOW THAT THEY'RE GONE, AND LET'S TRACK THAT AND GET REGULAR UPDATES FROM THE CPOA TO COUNCIL IN OUR MEETINGS, PRESENTATIONS IN PUBLIC, SO THAT PUBLIC ALSO SEES THESE THINGS.

>> Nash: SPEAKING OF PUBLIC, I'D LIKE TO ASK YOU WHAT YOU WOULD TELL YOUR CONSTITUENTS ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN EXPECT FROM APD MOVING FORWARD.

WHAT SHOULD THEY EXPECT?

>> Rogers: I THINK THAT'S HARD, NASH.

BECAUSE WHAT I EXPECT AND WHAT I FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD EXPECT FROM APD IS THAT THEY ARE HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE WHO BREAK THE LAW WITHOUT VIOLATING CIVIL RIGHTS.

AND WITHOUT KILLING PEOPLE.

THAT'S WHAT I EXPECT.

I THINK OUR COMMUNITY EXPECTS THE SAME.

I HEAR DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY FROM OUR BUSINESS OWNERS.

COMMUNITY MEMBERS, ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S MY HEART.

BUT OUR BUSINESS OWNERS ARE SUFFERING.

WHEN YOU HEAR BUSINESS OWNERS TELL ME HOW MUCH THEY PAY IN TAXES, AND THEN HOW MANY TIMES THEY'VE CALLED FOR HELP AND HAVEN'T GOTTEN SERVICE, THAT'S A FAILURE OF SERVICES, CITY SERVICES, TO TAXPAYING BUSINESS OWNERS.

NOT JUST THE RESIDENTS WHO PAY TAXES, RIGHT?

I EXPECT THAT AS A REGULAR RESIDENT, IF I NEED 911 I CAN CALL THEM AND THEY'LL BE THERE WITHIN MINUTES.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

I THINK IT'S THE SAME FOR THE BUSINESS OWNERS.

THEY ARE PAYING A LOT FOR SECURITY OUTSIDE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T COUNT ON APD COMING IN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME.

I THINK THAT'S A FAILURE OF CITY SERVICES.

AND I THINK THAT ADDING MORE OFFICERS SO THEY CAN TAKE THOSE 911 CALLS FOR FOLKS WHO WANT THEM THERE IS DEFINITELY SHOULD BE OUR PRIORITY.

AGAIN, NOT VIOLATING PEOPLE'S CIVIL RIGHTS.

>> Nash: CITY COUNCILOR NICHOLE ROGERS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> Rogers: THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE BEING HERE.

>> Renetta: IN THE CASE OF CHRISTOPHER'S SHOOTING, ONE OF THOSE OFFICERS WAS PROMOTED TO LIEUTENANT.

HOW?

HOW?

IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE REWARDING PEOPLE FOR BAD BEHAVIOR.

BUT IS THAT THE CULTURE?

AGAIN, WE GO BACK TO THE CULTURE OF AGGRESSION AND POOR JUDGMENT.

>> Nash: WHEN CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE AND FEDERAL OFFICIALS INKED A SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT IN 2014, THEY CREATED A WEB OF INTERCONNECTED DIVISIONS, POLICIES, AND TRAINING REQUIREMENTS FOR CITY COPS.

THE IDEA WAS TO CUT DOWN ON THE USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE AND TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE WOULD BE ACCOUNTABILITY WHEN OFFICERS WENT TOO FAR.

LONGTIME ALBUQUERQUE-BASED CIVIL RIGHTS MARK FINE CALLS IT SCAFFOLDING.

FINE JOINS EXECUTIVE PRODUCER JEFF PROCTOR AGAIN THIS WEEK TO TALK ABOUT WHAT CITY HALL AND APD BRASS MUST DO TO KEEP IT FROM CRUMBLING, NOW THAT THERE'S NO LONGER A FEDERAL JUDGE OVERSEEING REFORMS.

FINE HAS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CITY'S PLAN TO KEEP THE STRUCTURES INTACT.

AND WHAT HE CONSIDERS A KEY BUT UNDERRATED BENEFIT OF THE FEDS 11 YEARS IN ALBUQUERQUE, TRANSPARENCY.

THAT'S WHERE HIS CONVERSATION WITH JEFF PICKS UP.

>> Jeff: MARK, THANKS SO MARCH FOR BEING BACK FOR A SECOND-STRAIGHT WEEK TO TALK APD WITH ME.

>> Fine: GLAD TO.

>> Jeff: OF COURSE, IN LAST WEEK'S EPISODE WE SPENT A BUNCH OF TIME EXAMINING WHETHER THE CONSENT DECREE PROJECT WAS SUCCESSFUL IN TERMS OF CHANGING POLICE CULTURE.

THIS WEEK, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK A BIT FORWARD.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAD MENTIONED WHEN WE WERE TALKING IN ADVANCE OF THIS CONVERSATION A, PERHAPS, UNDERRATED BENEFIT OF THIS ENTIRE THING WAS INCREASED TRANSPARENCY.

I'M CURIOUS, WHAT MUST THE CITY DO TO ENSURE THAT, IN A NO DOJ WORLD, THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THIS CITY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THEIR POLICE DEPARTMENT?

>> Fine: YEAH, IT'S SOMEWHAT EASY TO OVERLOOK THE IMPACT THAT THE TRANSPARENCY OF THE CONSENT DECREE PROCESS HAD, IN THAT BEFORE THAT-- BEFORE THE DOJ LETTER, 2012, 2013, YOU WOULD BE ESSENTIALLY FACING A BLACK WALL OF INFORMATION INSOFAR AS BETWEEN THE CITY AND THE DEPARTMENT THEY COULD STONEWALL INFORMATION.

YOU COULD HAVE TO BE GUESSING AT EVERYTHING.

AND IT WAS VERY HARD TO GET ANY INFORMATION ABOUT POLICE SHOOTINGS OR OTHER INCIDENTS.

THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THE CONSENT DECREE, YOU HAVE THIS AMAZING WINDOW INTO WHAT'S ACTUALLY HAPPENING BECAUSE NOT ONLY ARE ALL THESE USE OF FORCE EVENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, BEING REVIEWED INTERNALLY, THEY'RE BEING REVIEWED BY THE INDEPENDENT MONITOR.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE PUBLIC KNOWS WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT'S GOING ON WITH SPECIFIC POLICE SHOOTINGS.

>> Jeff: THOSE REPORTS ARE POSTED ONLINE.

ANYBODY CAN GO LOOK AT THEM.

>> Fine: RIGHT.

IT'S AN AMAZING TOOL AND RESOURCE TO HAVE FOR THE COMMUNITY TO BE ABLE TO ASSESS THE WORKINGS OF ITS OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT.

SO, ONE OF THE MAJOR, MAJOR THINGS I THINK I CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WILL BE LOST WITH THE DEPARTURE OF THE INDEPENDENT MONITOR AND THE DOJ FROM THIS PROCESS, IS GOING TO BE THAT WINDOW ON WHAT IS HAPPENING.

AND IT ENABLES, I THINK, ANY POLITICAL-- YOU KNOW, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IS AN ARM OF THE CITY.

AND THE CITY, THROUGH A MAYOR, IS A POLITICAL AGENT.

AND IT HAS TO ACHIEVE POLITICAL ENDS.

SO, THERE IS A RISK WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THAT TRANSPARENCY THAT POLICING IS DRIVEN AND ACCOUNTABILITY IS DRIVEN BY THE POLITICS OF WHATEVER MAYOR MAY BE IN POWER AT THE TIME.

SO, THAT IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE CRUCIAL QUESTIONS MOVING FORWARD IS HOW DOES THE CITY PROVIDE A WINDOW INTO ITS OWN WORKINGS?

OR DOES IT WITHDRAW BACK INTO ITSELF AND MAKE IT MUCH HARDER FOR PEOPLE TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE STREETS OF ALBUQUERQUE WITH THE POLICE?

>> Jeff: YEAH, I HAVE TO SAY THAT I'M OLD ENOUGH AS A JOURNALIST TO REMEMBER THE PRE-DOJ DAYS WHEN TRYING TO GET INFORMATION OUT OF THAT POLICE DEPARTMENT THROUGH THE INSPECTION OF PUBLIC RECORDS ACT WAS A TOTAL NONSTARTER.

ANYWAY, LET'S MOVE ON.

LOOKING FORWARD, THERE'S NO MORE JUDGE TO OVERSEE ANY OF THESE REFORM EFFORTS.

WHO ULTIMATELY IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MITIGATING THE MORE, SORT OF, DELETERIOUS IMPACTS OF THAT DYNAMIC THAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED?

WHAT SHOULD THE PEOPLE OF ALBUQUERQUE EXPECT?

AND WHO SHOULD THEY DEMAND OF THAT THEY GET CONSTITUTIONAL POLICING?

>> Fine: I THINK IT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE CITY.

SO, IT IS A QUESTION OF THE CITY'S MANAGEMENT OF ALBUQUERQUE AND OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE PUBLIC AND THE POLICE.

SO, THAT IS NUMBER ONE.

I THINK THAT THERE HAS TO BE SOME ACCOUNTABILITY ON THE COMMUNITY AS WELL, WHICH ALSO REQUIRES THE WORK OF MEDIA TO REPORT.

SO, WHILE IT IS CERTAINLY THE CASE THAT THE CITY IS ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONDUCT OF ITS POLICE, THERE ARE RESPONSIBILITIES THAT COMMUNITY MEMBERS HAVE, THAT THE MEDIA HAVE, IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT'S HAPPENING SO THAT YOU ARE, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, ACHIEVING THAT TRANSPARENCY AS A COMMUNITY.

KNOWING WHAT YOUR POLICE IS DOING, AND HOW IT MIGHT BE EXCEEDING ITS CONSTITUTIONAL POWERS.

BUT YOU'RE GOING TO NEED BOTH THE MEDIA AND THE COMMUNITY TO BE TOTALLY ENGAGED IN ORDER TO HAVE ANYTHING APPROXIMATING THE OVERSIGHT YOU HAD WITH THE MONITORS.

>> Jeff: LAST WEEK, YOU SORT OF DESCRIBED ONE OF THE REAL BENEFITS OF THE CONSENT DECREE PROJECT WAS THE BUILDING OF THIS SCAFFOLDING.

A MECHANISM OR ALL KINDS OF BUREAUCRATIC WORDS THAT I COULD USE THAT WOULD PUT VIEWERS TO SLEEP.

BUT THOSE PROCESSES THAT WERE PUT IN PLACE, WHAT CONCERNS DO YOU HAVE, IN A POST-DOJ WORLD, ABOUT HOW THOSE ARE MAINTAINED?

BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT'S REALLY THE KEY FOR THE ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE OF ALL OF THIS.

WHAT QUESTIONS DO YOU HAVE ABOUT HOW THAT GOES FORWARD?

>> Fine: RIGHT.

I GUESS I WOULD BEGIN BY SAYING THAT-- MAYBE I MENTIONED IT LAST WEEK AS WELL.

BUT THE SUCCESS OF THOSE PROCESSES AND USE OF ACCOUNTABILITY IS THE EASIEST EXAMPLE.

USE OF FORCE ACCOUNTABILITY.

WHERE YOU HAVE A USE OF FORCE, NOW THAT USE OF FORCE IS VIDEOTAPED AUTOMATICALLY, OR ELSE THAT'S CONSIDERED A VIOLATION.

IT'S GOING TO BE REVIEWED BY SUPERVISORS, LINE SUPERVISORS.

IT'S GOING TO BE REVIEWED BY INTERNAL AFFAIRS, AND IT'S GOING TO BE TAKEN UP AS NEEDED UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND.

THE FIRST THING I'LL SAY ABOUT THAT PROCESS IS THAT, AGAIN, FOR MANY YEARS OF THE APPLICATION OF WHEN THE CONSENT DECREE APPLIED AND WHEN THE MONITORING WAS OCCURRING, THAT WAS NOT FUNCTIONING.

SO, IT'S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER AS WE THINK ABOUT THE CASA IS OVER AND DONE WITH THIS IS THAT IT'S REALLY RECENT, VERY RECENT, THAT WE NOW HAVE A DESCRIPTION BY THE DOJ OF 100% COMPLIANCE WITH THE OPERATIONAL GOALS OF THE CASA.

BUT WITH THAT IN MIND, THE FACT THAT IT'S SUCH A DELICATE-- IT IS A VERY DELICATE THING TO HAVE THIS COMPLIANCE AND TO HAVE THESE SCAFFOLDING AND THIS MECHANISM FOR MONITORING USE OF FORCE IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S GOING TO TOTALLY DEPEND ON WHETHER OR NOT THE CITY CAN CONTINUE TO UPHOLD THESE MEASURES AND UPHOLD THIS TYPE OF OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY PROCESSES.

AND RIGHT NOW, WE HAVE NO SENSE OF HOW IT'S GOING TO DO THAT.

AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT I'D BE LOOKING FOR AND THINKING ABOUT WHAT THE CITY IS SAYING AND DOING IN RESPONSE TO THE END OF THIS ERA.

WHAT IS THE PLAN FOR ENSURING THAT THOSE PROCESSES CONTINUE?

>> Jeff: OTHER THAN THE MAYOR AND CHIEF SAYING THAT THIS ISN'T THE END OF THE ROAD, WHICH IN THEIR DEFENSE, THEY HAVE SAID FROM THE VERY BEGINNING.

I KNOW YOU'RE NOT A POLITICS GUY, MARK, BUT SHOULD THIS BE A CAMPAIGN ISSUE?

THIS IS A MAYORAL ELECTION YEAR.

SHOWING VOTERS, PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE, A PLAN FOR HOW TO CONTINUE THIS WORK, SHOULD THAT BE AN ELECTION ISSUE?

>> Fine: I THINK TO THE EXTENT THAT CRIME HAS BEEN AN ELECTION ISSUE FOR SOME TIME, IT IS ALREADY AN ISSUE.

IT DOES NEED TO BE THE CASE THAT PEOPLE ARE CONSIDERING, NOT ONLY THE QUESTION OF CRIME AND CRIME STATISTICS, BUT THE QUESTION OF IS APD COMPLIANT WITH THE CONSTITUTION AND OTHER STANDARDS FOR MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE POLICING THE PUBLIC IN A WAY THAT'S NOT UNSAFE.

SO, ABSOLUTELY.

I DO THINK IT IS ALREADY, IN SOME WAYS, A CAMPAIGN ISSUE.

BUT I THINK THE ELEMENT OF CONTINUED WORK IN THIS AREA, ABSOLUTELY.

THE MAYORAL CANDIDATES NEED TO BE QUESTIONED ABOUT THAT EXTENSIVELY AND WHAT IS THE PLAN FOR ENSURING SOME OF THESE PROCESSES CONTINUE AFTER CASA.

>> Jeff: MARK, I KNOW YOU WILL CONTINUE TO BE WATCHING ALL OF THIS AS I WILL TOO.

I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING ALL THE TIME WITH ME TO OFFER YOUR PERSPECTIVE ON WHAT IS A REALLY BIG DEAL WITH THE CONSENT DECREE.

I THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Fine: I'M GLAD TO HAVE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS IT.

THANKS.

>> Nash: OVER THE PAST 11 YEARS OF FEDERAL OVERSIGHT AT APD, NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS HAS KEPT AN EYE ON THE DEPARTMENT'S REFORM EFFORTS AND THEIR EFFECTIVENESS.

BACK IN 2015, CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND INTERVIEWED DR. JAMES GINGER, A FORMER POLICE OFFICER WHO AT THE TIME WAS JUST MONTHS INTO HIS CONTRACT GIG AS INDEPENDENT MONITOR FOR THE CONSENT DECREE.

WE KNEW THAT DOJ WOULD BE ACTIVE IN ALBUQUERQUE FOR AT LEAST FOUR YEARS AS THE DEPARTMENT MADE CHANGES TO ITS CULTURE AND PRACTICES.

OVERSIGHT, OF COURSE, ENDED UP LASTING MUCH LONGER THAN THAT.

SOMETHING THAT GINGER PREDICTED AS A POSSIBILITY, LONG BEFORE HE AND HIS FIRM HAD BANKED NORTH OF $13 MILLION TO CALL BALLS AND STRIKES AS REFORMS WENT FORWARD.

>> Ginger: THEY'RE REQUIRED TO DO SPECIFIC THINGS.

RETRAINING, NEW POLICY.

NEW SUPERVISORY PROCESSES.

NEW DISCIPLINARY PROCESSES.

ALL OF THIS TAKES TIME.

THAT'S WHY MOST OF THESE PROJECTS, TO START, ARE FOR A MINIMUM OF FIVE YEARS.

AND MANY OF THEM GO, SEVEN, EIGHT, NINE, TEN YEARS.

>> Nash: YOU CAN WATCH CORRESPONDENT GWYNETH DOLAND'S FULL 2015 INTERVIEW WITH GINGER RIGHT NOW ON THE NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS YOUTUBE PAGE.

WE END THIS WEEK'S SHOW WHERE WE BEGAN PART ONE, WITH A FAMILY WHO FOR 14 YEARS HAS DEALT WITH THE LOSS OF A LOVED ONE AT THE HANDS OF APD OFFICERS.

LAST WEEK, STEVE AND RENETTA TORRES TOLD US ABOUT THAT DAY IN 2011, WHEN TWO PLAIN-CLOTHES APD DETECTIVES FATALLY SHOT THEIR SON IN THEIR BACKYARD.

THIS WEEK, THE COUPLE CONSIDERS WHAT'S AHEAD FOR A POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT STILL KILLS RESIDENTS AT A NATIONALLY HIGH RATE.

AND NO LONGER HAS THE METICULOUS OVERSIGHT THAT ONLY REALLY COMES IN A FEDERAL COURTROOM.

AND THEY HAVE A MESSAGE FOR FAMILIES WHO ARE SUFFERING NOW AND WILL SUFFER IN THE FUTURE THROUGH THE DEVASTATING LOSS THAT'S MARKED THE PAST DECADE AND A HALF FOR THEM.

HERE'S JEFF.

>> Jeff: RENETTA, STEVE, THANKS FOR BEING BACK WITH US FOR ANOTHER WEEK TO TALK APD.

>> Renetta: YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> Jeff: SO, LAST WEEK'S EPISODE WAS KIND OF FOCUSED ON HOW WE GOT HERE.

AND WHETHER WE ALL THINK THAT, SORT OF, THE END OF THIS THING WAS TIMELY AND APPROPRIATE.

I WANT TO ASK, STEVE, NOW THAT THE FEDS HAVE LEFT TOWN, HOW ARE YOU FEELING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF POLICING IN ALBUQUERQUE?

>> Steve: I'M OPTIMISTIC.

I'M HOPING THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME TRAINING, SOME EDUCATION TO ALL THE POLICE OFFICERS, ALL THE RANK-AND-FILE, TO SHOW THEM THE WAY WE USED TO DO THINGS IS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO DO IT.

AND THERE'S A BETTER WAY TO DO IT.

THERE'S A WAY WE CAN DO THIS WITHOUT HAVING TO BEAT PEOPLE UP AND SHOOT THEM.

AGAIN, I'M WORRIED.

EVEN TODAY, ALBUQUERQUE STILL HAS ONE OF THE HIGHEST RATES OF POLICE SHOOTINGS IN THE COUNTRY.

SO, I WONDER, WELL, HOW MUCH PROGRESS HAVE WE REALLY MADE?

IT'S DISHEARTENING, SOMETIMES.

>> Jeff: RENETTA, I WANT TO PROCEED TO YOU A QUOTE FROM MAYOR TIM KELLER FROM THE NEWS RELEASE THAT HE ISSUED ANNOUNCING THAT JUDGE BROWNING HAD SIGNED THE ORDER TO END THE CONSENT DECREE.

THIS IS THE QUOTE, THIS RULING FINALIZES WHAT THE DEPARTMENT AND OUR COMMUNITY HAVE WORKED TIRELESSLY FOR OVER THE LAST DECADE.

WE HAVE EARNED BACK THE RIGHT TO RUN OUR OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT.

I WONDER WHAT YOUR REACTION IS TO THEM CHARACTERIZING THIS AS A VICTORY FOR THE CITY AND FOR THE COMMUNITY?

>> Renetta: WELL, I READ THAT STATEMENT A FEW DAYS AGO.

AND I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?

TO RUN OUR OWN DEPARTMENT, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS.

DOES THAT MEAN WE JUST KIND OF GO BACK TO BUSINESS AS USUAL?

WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

I THOUGHT IT WAS A RATHER NEBULOUS STATEMENT.

BUT I ALSO THOUGHT THAT HIS SUBSEQUENT COMMENT, AS FAR AS BAD ACTORS AND THAT BAD ACTORS WOULD BE DEALT WITH-- ONE OF THE KEY PIECES IN THE AGREEMENT, THERE ARE SEVERAL KEY COMPONENTS, BUT OBVIOUSLY TRAINING.

BUT YOU ALSO HAD THAT ACCOUNTABILITY.

WHERE IS THE ACCOUNTABILITY PIECE?

I THINK IT WOULD BE AN INTERESTING DIVE TO KNOW HOW MANY OF THE OFFICERS, OVER THE LAST 20 YEARS, THAT HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN FATAL SHOOTINGS AND THOSE THAT WERE EXCESSIVE FORCE TO BE PART OF THAT, HOW MANY WERE PROMOTED?

SO, WHAT'S THE MESSAGE?

IF I'M INVOLVED IN AN EXCESSIVE FORCE SHOOTING, FATAL SHOOTING, AND I GET PROMOTED, WHAT'S THE MESSAGE TO THE RANK-AND-FILE?

JUST AS IMPORTANTLY, WHAT IS THE MESSAGE TO THE COMMUNITY?

THERE ARE NO CONSEQUENCES.

THERE IS NO ACCOUNTABILITY.

IF YOUR POLICIES ARE ARE NOW IN PLACE, AND YOU'VE GOT ALL OF THESE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS ON HOW DIFFERENT SITUATIONS ARE TO BE HANDLED, AND YOU DEVIATE FROM THAT BECAUSE I FELT MY LIFE WAS THREATENED, YET THERE'S NOTHING TO SUBSTANTIATE THAT, WHAT DOES THAT INVESTIGATION LOOK LIKE?

WHAT IS THE FINAL OUTCOME?

DOES IT LOOK LIKE THERE WAS A FAIR PROCESS?

I DON'T MEAN JUST FAIR TO THE OFFICER.

I MEAN FAIR TO THE PERSON WHO WAS KILLED.

I DON'T KNOW, BUT I DO THINK THAT STAFF WOULD BE VERY INTERESTING.

AND I THINK, BACK TO THE BAD ACTORS, HOW ARE YOU DEALING WITH BAD ACTORS?

WHO ARE THE BAD ACTORS YOU'VE DEALT WITH?

IN THE CASE OF CHRISTOPHER'S SHOOTING, ONE OF THOSE OFFICERS WAS PROMOTED TO LIEUTENANT.

SO, I'M NOT SURE-- I WILL ARTICULATE MY REACTION TO THAT BY SAYING, HOW?

HOW?

IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE REWARDING PEOPLE FOR BAD BEHAVIOR.

BUT IS THAT THE CULTURE?

AGAIN, WE GO BACK TO THE CULTURE OF AGGRESSION AND POOR JUDGMENT.

YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU CAN'T ALWAYS DICTATE FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE STANDPOINT HOW PEOPLE IN THE FIELD ARE GOING TO RESPOND AND WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO.

YOU HOPE THEY ACT WITH INTEGRITY.

BUT YOU CAN'T DICTATE THAT.

HOWEVER, YOU CAN ADDRESS THE AFTERMATH.

SO, WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THOSE SITUATIONS AFTER THESE KILLINGS HAVE OCCURRED?

>> Jeff: I WANT TO SPEND JUST A MINUTE TALKING ABOUT THE POWER OF VOICES LIKE YOURS.

AS YOU BOTH KNOW, I DID A FAIR BIT OF JOURNALISM MYSELF BACK IN THOSE DAYS IN THE RUN-UP TO THE SENT DECREE AND THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THAT.

THIS WAS KIND OF MY BEAT.

THIS WAS THE THING I SPENT MY CAREER DOING.

BECAUSE OF THAT, I CAN SAY WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINLY THAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT NEVER WOULD HAVE COME HERE TO INVESTIGATE THIS POLICE DEPARTMENT WITHOUT FOLKS LIKE YOU.

THIS CONSENT DECREE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN SIGNED, HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR FOLKS LIKE YOU.

STEVE, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY THAT FAMILIES WHO ARE LIVING NOW AND WILL LIVE IN THE FUTURE THROUGH WHAT Y'ALL LIVED THROUGH SHOULD DO WHEN THEY SEE A POLICE DEPARTMENT THAT IS NOT FOLLOWING THE CONSTITUTION?

>> Steve: QUESTION.

QUESTION.

STAND UP AND SAY, WAIT A SECOND.

WE NEED TO TAKE A BETTER LOOK AT THIS.

FAMILIES NEED TO KNOW THAT THERE IS-- THAT THEY HAVE VOICES.

AND YOU CAN SPEAK UP AND IF YOU GET ENOUGH PEOPLE INVOLVED, YOU CAN AND WILL BE HEARD.

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT WILL LISTEN TO YOU AND WILL LEND THEIR SUPPORT.

I MEAN, I CAN REMEMBER WHEN WE REACHED OUT TO SENATOR JEFF BINGAMAN'S OFFICE FOR ASSISTANCE WITH GETTING THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HERE.

HE WASN'T FULLY ON BOARD, BUT AT LEAST HE GAVE US AN IN.

HE WAS SUPPORTIVE.

WELL, OKAY, LET'S GET THE DOJ TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS THING.

SO, THAT'S POSSIBLE.

AND AND THERE WERE, FINALLY, PEOPLE WHO STARTED GIVING SOME CREDENCE TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT AND QUESTIONING THIS POLICE CULTURE.

I CAN REMEMBER WHEN MAYOR BERRY, FINALLY, AFTER SIX OR SEVEN YEARS-- FINALLY, WE SAT DOWN WITH US IN HIS OFFICE.

AND HE APOLOGIZED TO US.

THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME ANYBODY THERE AT THE CITY HAD GIVEN US AN APOLOGY.

SO, THERE WAS A RECOGNITION OF, HEY, MAYBE WE'RE MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

MAYBE WE'RE CHANGING SOME ATTITUDES, SOME PERCEPTIONS.

MAYBE THE COMMUNITY IS COMING ALONG.

I CAN REMEMBER ARCHBISHOP SHEEHAN.

I HAD REACHED OUT TO ARCHBISHOP SHEEHAN AT THE THE TIME BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS WAS A SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUE.

AND THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS INVOLVED IN SOCIAL JUSTICE.

AND I WAS TRYING TO GET ARCHBISHOP SHEEHAN TO COME ON BOARD AND LEND SOME SUPPORT TO OUR EFFORT.

INITIALLY, HE WAS VERY RELUCTANT.

NO, NO, NO.

THE POLICE, WE HAVE TO SUPPORT THE POLICE.

WE HAVE TO SUPPORT THE POLICE.

BUT AFTER THE FELLOW UP IN THE FOOTHILLS-- >> Jeff: JAMES BOYD.

>> Steve: AFTER THE JAMES BOYD SHOOTING, I CAN REMEMBER THE ARCHBISHOP CAME TO ME AND SAID, YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT.

YOU GUYS WERE RIGHT.

>> Jeff: RENETTA, I WANT TO GIVE YOU THE LAST WORD.

THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, AS FAR AS APD IS CONCERNED, HAS COME AND GONE.

DONALD TRUMP IS PRESIDENT.

HIS JUSTICE DEPARTMENT DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT EFFORTS LIKE THIS ARE WORTHWHILE FOR COMMUNITIES LIKE OURS OR ELSEWHERE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO THE CURRENT AND NEXT GENERATION OF FAMILIES OF VICTIMS OF POLICE VIOLENCE?

>> Renetta: I THINK THE POLITICAL CLIMATE THAT WE'RE IN CURRENTLY IS VERY CHALLENGING.

I THINK THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THAT ARE BEING MADE THAT ARE REALLY NOT FOR THE GOOD OF THE COMMUNITY.

NOT FOR THE GOOD OF THE COUNTRY.

BUT I THINK IF WE KEEP OUR VOICES LOUD, AND WE COME TOGETHER, WE ORGANIZE-- I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE KEYS FOR US WITH THE WHOLE EFFORT.

THERE'S STRENGTH IN NUMBERS.

AND WE HAVE TO BE A VOICE.

AND WE CAN'T JUST SIT BACK AND SAY, WELL, THIS IS THE WAY IT IS, AND WE JUST HAVE TO ACCEPT IT.

WE HAVE TO FIND OUR VOICE AND USE IT.

>> Jeff: THANK YOU, BOTH, SO MUCH FOR COMING.

IT WAS GREAT TO SEE YOU AND TO TALK ABOUT THIS STUFF AGAIN.

THANK YOU.

>> Renetta: NICE TO SEE YOU TOO.

AND THANK YOU.

>> Nash: THANK YOU TO RENETTA AND STEVE TORRES AND TO EVERYONE ELSE WHO CONTRIBUTED TO THIS WEEK'S SHOW.

IF YOU MISSED PART ONE OF THIS SERIES LAST WEEK, YOU CAN FIND IT, ALONG WITH ALL OF THIS WEEK'S INTERVIEWS, ON THE PBS APP.

AND JOIN US NEXT WEEK FOR A LOOK AHEAD AT NEW MEXICO'S WILDFIRE SEASON AND WHAT COULD AFFECT IT.

FOR NEW MEXICO PBS, I'M NASH JONES.

UNTIL NEXT WEEK, STAY FOCUSED.

>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS IS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.