today we have Doctor Petty, the, professor and Rockwell Endowment chair from Texas Tech University.

Joining us for the lecture series in College Station.

Doctor petty has over 35 years of experience in research, teaching and practice across the US, Canada and India.

And he's focusing on how the built environment impacts people, processes and organization.

A widely published author is, two time honoree among the 25 most influential people in healthcare design and has received multiple awards for research excellence.

He has served as the director of the USA chapter for the International Academy for Design and Health, and sits on the Her Journal Editorial board and actively advances evidence based design in health care and justice architecture.

Doctor Pati is currently serving on the international advisory Board of Swiss Center for Design and Health, and he's also serving on the Distinguished Experts Panel, Global Education Policy Network in Saudi Arabia, among others.

So please help me welcome doctor Patty to the podium.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

It's happening right.

And, I up to you from architecture or we have anyone thought that the might.

Alright.

Okay.

So, as the title says, Lost in Translation with us and our design and values.

Other.

But in the overall number.

Oh oh.

And this is actually all is part of my life story in, 2005, I tried it.

Yes.

I'm a data scientist.

And with the intent of creating an in-house research unit that has.

And that was, I believe, and I thought it was very thought that the first time any anywhere that you know, of professional architects or not, for me, actually started the impulse research unit for time.

They used to do research in small groups for the purpose of a more formal announcement or conducting research on many healthcare, because our clients are demanding that, a lot of healthcare construction was going on at that period.

And as I was going to my role as a person who is in charge of research on the entire, and I think, you know, experience and data and so all of that sort of automation.

But most of this was happening at a certain distance.

Early on.

I did research, but creating decisions that can be implemented and, and professional project in response to our client needs.

And I was going to that.

So I started thinking and to answer some of the questions that I have on my mind, because these sorts of architecture was not in it was going on for a long time before.

The question was that there was very limited penetration of involvement, design knowledge in to design practice.

Until that time.

And then, to my surprise, pleasant surprise, I saw that there's a huge amount of penetration that happened in the context of that design.

And so that person was involved in an intellectual question.

And a lot of things I would say today are my personal sort of experience underpinning.

And so the grand challenge, because I will be making some assumptions.

So as I looked at and I began to ask myself, what is it about healthcare design that research is penetrating so much that people said before that research was happening in architecture, in academia, practice was happening in the real world, and there was no competition in between.

They were on their separate tracks.

And I came to the conclusion that maybe what we need to rethink is that valuable proportion.

And we'll talk about what value proposition is, in brief.

And at the end of the, we met briefly talk about what does it mean for designing for people.

And that is where we expanded beyond healthcare into general, so just a few things to note, so that all of us are on the same page, that when we make some decisions, some predictions, about ourselves, I want to share what kind of I want to learn and what kind of clothes I want to wear.

What should I want to buy, what kind of thought I want to try college.

That's a different set of decision involving different sets of values and proportions compared to when we are making decisions on other people.

And those other people would be different for the organizations would be, let's say organizations, educational organizations, doesn't matter.

But essentially you are making decisions or proposing decisions through other people to make the final decision.

Because we had architects don't make the final decisions all the time.

In fact, most of the time we make a proposal that the client decides.

So there is a difference between making your own decision for your yourself, as opposed to influencing other people's decision.

The second thing I wanted to clarify is that there is a difference between creativity and innovation.

Both of them are thinking we are going.

I mean, the US is the strongest economy in the world.

Maybe because of innovation.

Everything in this country versus in its economy and its currency and its military and in science, technology, all of that is because of knowledge.

We as a society are rich because of knowledge.

So and a lot of time we talk about and notice they're the same concept and they are not.

And then security, which of course, the importance to one's own sort of innate ability to think new.

And it relates to venture until you add something which is value added.

Do we have a no.

So when you have something, something necessarily it has value.

Then you end up in a time where you have a creative thought about or idea, and that could be about a new product, service, technology or design.

But then as soon as it becomes reality and it creates an innovative sort of order process.

So with that, let's talk about some of the fundamental problems that occurred in industry.

So the question was has an overarching design that's been able to articulate its truth and substance, value and proposition.

And again, a lot of times we confuse between those two.

Now when we talk about substance, if we take the example of iPad, the the substance and that's the object.

I don't think we are in some sense of the pack.

But then when we talk about value, the value of that pen may be different for me than it is different for you.

Are you right?

So the same thing, the same proportion or same concept can have different value depending on who you're talking.

And we may feel at some point that it's very valuable for me, but I mean that it's very valuable to you.

And we need to understand what is value for you when we take decisions or make suggestions to other people as opposed to ourself.

And then the whole thing is about proportion is how do you, get that?

It's about communication.

And what I feel, again, based on my own experience, is that we had a lot of options there outstanding research, researchers, thinkers, volumes of or in the field even before that design came up as a result of sort of what the main.

And my sort of argument is perhaps we have to give them the thought about value and proportion to the extent we should, as.

And when we these are some of the projects that have I have worked on the bridge sort of knowledge base idea.

Sorry.

National Institute of Building Sciences, the center for how to Design database.

Academy of Architecture for justice education for by where I have essentially take summaries of research and put it on a website.

And that is the extent we have tried to I don't know, I mean go beyond the substance because that is a substance.

And we want to bring that substance through a decision making process.

And the most we have done is put it on a website or send it to, in the case of education providers, send it in small startups that sound bites and insert forms of other people and and arrangements.

So the question again of that model is uncertain from the normative design is translated to the extent we expect or expected.

And we can talk about research, inform design.

I don't say even if it is not in form, if it is a new design concept, we thought, it's great, hasn't really been involved in real products.

My answer would be perhaps no, except that we have seen a lot of penetration in the design.

And then the question is, why is it?

Is it because we found the wrong audience for to.

Is it because of ineffective communication of value, or is it lack of explicit sort of articulation of ideas?

And all three are worth sort of examining.

And we talk about each one of these.

I will give an example of the research work that I was involved in, to sort of make my point here.

So first of all, the audience, traditionally, if you think about I come from the American psychology background and you look at the early 1960s, when and of the psychology became a field and a lot of researchers started producing research.

And if you go back and check those literature and see that their intent was to inform the design, so the designer working in the design office, and they were producing knowledge that would inform the designer in creating the right design decisions.

So that was originally in terms of informing designers as they got here, as in this new role, which I had not played before in my life.

I was in the profession, I was the design, professional, architectural.

So I would never touch original design fun.

I came up with that original sort of notion that I had to inform the designers.

So we started creating all of this education and other kinds of things, thinking that we, as a community of architects need to know so that we can take the right decisions.

And then I had the legal after, not in 2005, but after several years of doing this and part of my role, as you know, I was a researcher, but I was drawing my salary from the marketing department.

Think about that.

So the so I had to get into a role where I was actually making clients, and sometimes I was meeting I was among the first people who were meeting with the working with the class.

I was part of a team called Clinical Solutions that research.

So we were the advance team going and talking about high level stuff.

What could happen in the hospital.

Because once you don't have a lot of funding, like now in hospital products takes about four, five, six years to build.

You know, a sizable project, sometimes even longer than the eight.

So the hospital organization extending what came in five years, what would you like to change in an organization in your way, you will deliver patient care in five years or ten years.

So that ending of that.

That's right.

So that was part of my job.

The clients and see what were changing and what kind of new concepts and bringing.

And how much of those concepts thanks to work, the whole evidence based design, sort of, field came up during that time.

So everyone was talking about for evidence.

Note let's say you have come up with a new concept.

What is the evidence that it's going to work and or what, five, six years from now?

So as I was going through that experience, through multiple clients, maybe across the US, a few in UK, but mostly across the US.

And I think all of you know, the background when I talk about evidence based design in terms of the 1999 Institute of Medicine report that came up saying that a lot of people in the US hospitals are dying, not like that, but because of things that happened that there were that not related to the illness.

And the center for Health Design also came up with a huge number view at that point.

I think rather was a professor did something that was leading that at for, presenting.

I thought I was he was one of the sort of examiners.

And then as I was going through my own experience of looking at or informing clients, walking with clients at a very high rate of as to which direction of your organization walking.

I was also doing my own sort of unscientific research as to what is happening here, because that's happening phenomena for all of us, for instance, for the architects involved in the project, for me, as part of the accident.

And then I was part of this meeting with the physicians and a lot of, nurses and other friends of clinicians as part of the team.

And they began to realize that, okay, you know, it's not really the environmental design for the designers involved.

And we are supposed to be informing.

And then there should be.

But the main people who are making the change or the difference are the clients.

So any change in acceptance of a big concept idea driven by research and all of it define them apart, is not the design of the design.

It is.

Yes, it is the clients who are making that change and they want understanding us.

When we ask designers, architects, look at evidence based design we don't see, and then we look at the robustness of the research.

And as long as it's a robust research, we don't distinguish between the pieces of research as to which is more or less not so, you got to do it.

And I came to mind because I was looking at it across multiple products, across different health systems, and you see that some of the concepts are getting accepted, being accepted by the client, some are not, even though all of those are based on a robust body of evidence.

And the question is, what?

So to get on that, let's say we have ten different concepts across ten different systems, or know how many number of systems, all robustly sort of well founded on robust research.

Some of those are getting very accepted by triangulation and adopted in the project, and some.

And I came to a conclusion about possible reasons.

Now, this is not scientific.

So this is my own sort of experience and observation.

And I have to work through all kind of resistance.

I would people about administrations sometimes this university policy and others, you know, sometimes involve physicians and nurses and so on.

I began to get the habit of asking them, what is it that keeps you awake at night?

Because my job was to come up with evidence that's going to help our entire organizations.

Now, if I did not understand what is the motive that might I might be able to design research that that.

So I began to ask questions.

They didn't give us different kinds of answers from different organizations.

As slowly as the clusters of responses.

And also what is happening that that's eating them away.

That might not know that directly related to building or can't.

But a lot of those are.

And I put them under three buckets.

One is game producing issues.

And it was an issue that came.

And it's just one example of each.

So again reducing is thinking how do I bring in more patients to my hospital so that we can generate more revenue.

Allocating it and having it easy to master so that I can generate more as an example.

So that's again producing one handed use that.

How can you make my operations workers have because inefficient operations equals to your building on reducing the cost.

So if you can reduce make it more efficient.

We are reducing the game of losing money in our hospital operations and killing.

There are some things no one benefits from all the number effects hospital acquired infections, medical care or mitigation of all of nobody benefits.

Let's talk about this involves so you know how much the healthcare industry loses on the patient every year.

The losses estimate was $15 billion a year.

Because now for some time now, I believe since 2000 and onwards, if a patient falls in the hospital, they don't get reimbursed for the treatment.

So the hospital has to pay that.

Before they walk off.

So that that's a loss.

Right.

And if you think of a patient who has a an event where it is an instance of their family, the nurses, physicians, I mean, who is gaining in the process now, if you will follow up, that's one of the pain to think that they need hospital industry in the hospital industry will invest one half billion dollars a year extra.

You can buy the idea that you can get more bonus money by and not all of a second.

All right.

At least someone benefited in that process.

Right now, the biggest benefit.

So what I is for us as we are making new design concepts based on research, those are for concepts that fit into one of these buckets.

By the facts, you know, they understood that.

When we're talking about their concepts, they're thinking about is it game producing quality?

Is the game reducing funding or is it going to end if one of these 3 or 1, one of these three were offering those sort of concepts are getting lot.

There was a high probability that many operations available for those that were not directly related to any of this buckets, because they are healthcare administrators, doctors, nurses.

They are thinking in different terms than looking at a design.

And if we see the input on the same design on a poster or projector, you might have seen it.

I have here, when we have nurses and physicians in the same room, they look at different things, even the same, and so.

That was the moment for that.

When people see the creative hey, and everybody's in the concert, whether that concept is back, that is something we did not think about that at this point.

If it isn't reducing, then reducing our pain, killing, we see a higher rate of adoption.

No, actually I have a very high probability of production.

I have a post right now.

Let me give an example of what that means for value and problems.

And this is as part of my research work when I was in the profession.

Like I said, falls is a huge issue.

And you go to the idea of declining ratings comes up most of the time.

The one thing you is also in our hospital, typically we have solutions based on our best judgment.

Because it's very difficult to do one study when you are in the profession and you are walking along with the product, are not.

And the most challenging part of doing that fall study is we take when I move to the next step, I got two months of that from the National Patient safety on this.

And I look at this, and that was when I started this.

In the literature, most of the literature is all about interest, facts.

So that could affect practice.

And in effect this involves what is intrinsic, which is inside the patient, what kind of disease you have or where you are, what medication you are on, what of the talents of the you have that need to evolve.

And the bulk of the literature was in that area.

So the rest of you worry about what is happening inside the patient body.

That might be a good one.

And there are extrinsic factors, which is an enormous part of it.

That is, we do that and zero literature on that.

I will say zero.

There are a few if you have a conflict and how slippery and the notion of friction and if you experience they sort of come in about hamburgers and rap and so on.

Other than that, we do not see anything good.

Tell us, how do you redesign a patient room to reduce false and eliminate possibly that $50 billion a year?

So what we did was we the the other challenge was software that specifically market is concerned honestly that you witness if all your data to know how do we redesign right.

And most of the faults happen when patients are alone.

Patients are told when they go to the hospital, do not do anything about call someone when they want to go to the restaurant.

Also, and when you want to search on the bed to check.

And a lot of times you have patients who would say, well, I'm a big man, you know, I'm 65, I can have a name.

But then personally, people, sometimes people are overconfident.

Sometimes we press for the nose to come and then understand better.

In three minutes, five minutes, you know, please, patients wait till the last moment to go to the bathroom because it's a painful journey.

So then hold on.

Whether it is number one or number two, hold it on and on and on and on until they cannot hold it any longer than that for the last event.

And if they're not getting there in 1 or 2 minutes, there's lots of material.

And that's the authors, right?

So basically the bottom line is we don't see it.

So how do we have a situation where you can actually see the order that is the exact and of course go to the hospital and ask.

And I have the to say we want to follow a similar to the bathroom, but maybe I will say no.

The patient themselves will say, all right, because of.

So we decided to create a simulation model at Texas Tech and bring in sort of subjects to the model.

We had that hospital system and therefore somebody on board, we had said yes as part of the team.

So we redid the scenarios.

I want to get into better to this scenario.

The bottom.

And they were all harnessed to a system in the ceiling.

None of them are falling.

But then we using sort of walls, we were using motion capture technology in real life, monitor the change in real life, the relation of the center of mass, which is that's before the mobility model.

And so using that technology and understanding the problem by year and uses a camera from multiple angles, we could narrow down to the exact sort of second, when if all was being said.

And what I did was for the second there.

Exactly.

And then the new system was there.

All the people on the spinning bolero harness, and we put in a second before second off to stretch it out there.

That is slow motion.

Get the people on faults can really design a plan on the center in front, and we would begin rolling those groups, those segments before and a one second people set up and we began to see how the physical environment is affected us.

The remarkable things we found.

Now, for example, if you are a patient, most of the time patients are booked up.

When I people in the hospital, not all patient, but most of them most of the time.

In fact, if they, you know, I think, well, that's the day when they are discharged to go on.

Now, if you have seen a lot of people, it has a big base.

Will base.

And then once you put the patient in there to be those units that you long, so they kind of are sliding on the floor.

So when they walk they try to stretch their hands as far away as possible because of two things they don't want within the base of the eyelid or with their foot.

And they don't want to get entangled in their human.

Basically, they're trying to avoid falling for the living arm, stretching their hand as far as possible so that they don't hit the base.

And that's the way they're getting into the bathroom every time, no matter how big or small they're imagining is this is really wider than the opening of the bathroom?

No.

So imagine having to go along with this and with the other hand, fiber upon the doorknob, open it and go inside the whole thing.

But no violent orgasm.

What it does is pretty much in every case, it creates a force posture and you know what?

Not an actual positive attitude.

It's not a change in motion because you want to.

It's a posture.

Posture until you go to the interaction between the physical design that we have, the equipment and the patient.

And every form we saw was associated with a different kind of of oscillation.

And we came over numerous areas and the bottom that was affecting for all the different proportions.

But I wanted to, you know, that's a different story going in a different direction.

I want to talk to the second story that originated from this.

That happened all the beautiful kids again.

And looking here, we discovered one thing that all of us in 60 to 70% of all the people was either directly or indirectly inducing the fall.

And then the in fact, it false comprehended it and resorted to them a certain by what we have been working on false since the whole for the last 20 years.

Have you ever realize that it's a faulty design?

And so I put together my hope.

Okay, guys, one is from you today and one of the initial ideas and we started thinking about since we now know the problem and in fact, not only we know the problem, we have a distinctive problem missing the exact moment, what is falling off and why it is it that it is between us and what the did was.

So basically, I am not redesigning and I report by reimagining what it should.

So we got funded by the National Science Foundation to look at how to reimagine something.

And that's the lot of the world overnight.

So we're going to stumble.

We're ready for the change.

But it wasn't very innovation direction where you are taking a concept and preparing a solution and to see how far it is marketed.

Then you think that product, a brilliant robot.

I think it was a model.

And what of the think that yet another simple task, and for that money is to make him go and the confident and do a customer segments are and that starts here.

This is if you are starting a business you meet all my goals.

This is not just for the innovation.

Well.

So you will start filling of this.

And there are two things I want to highlight.

Here is the right hand side.

You begin to see who are the customer segments and the customer value proportion.

I think the key thing for that.

So we are back with an almost no value proposition.

When we started with this, and the National Science Foundation started saying that bill and started looking at customer segments to see if we have a market about and see what kind of value we are proposing to that we really thought that we had it all in our bag because we are not salespeople getting the results or award for being very important about performing them.

Understand that what that what else can be money that they love.

So as we began to look at it, getting to interviews, we went to 100 different systems across the country and different kind of rules.

Any type of system we saw that is not just one customer.

We really went in thinking that it's just one person after one customer.

We saw the different kinds of customers there who had the same.

Thing you have the end users were the staff nurses, patient transporters, patients.

You have influencers like nursing directors, nurse managers, jobs managers, or child nurses, rather than people like nursing directors and final decision makers.

Were the CEOs overseeing those.

And then someone else is.

They the first thing that other great doctors are doing?

And then we looked at what kind of the picking up are they ordering interested in saving money for the hospital or is there something else going on now?

We did not have that question.

We actually found out through a lot of experience that is not the same value everyone is looking at.

So what they had is a staff nurses, patient transport.

They're looking at the stock list to say, oh my God, this is working with such a great solution because I want to decrease my documentation time, maybe pushing that.

Whereas when I talk about nursing directors, nurse managers, they're saying improving staffing efficiency is the best thing that can happen to saving 1 to 3 hours of nursing time.

In response to a found that would be great if we can increase our efficiency metric.

And that was some.

And then we go to the nursing director there also talking about improving staffing efficiency.

Once to the CEO, CFO level, they started talking to work.

Yeah, that's a great thing for us.

And it was the reducing of violence.

It was no one else for no one else before that money.

They whereas we wanted them to think that that's the biggest thing we have to offer.

We thought that's the value they will understand.

And other than the CFO, CFO or CEO, you know, no one else thought that was valuable to that.

There were different things that we needed to solve.

And then we are the one thing we had never thought about it.

Improving hospital safety made do not apply to our life.

That came up as something you.

So the bottom line is that you know our value.

As I started talking about it, it's not the same for all customer segments, and proportion cannot be the same for all customer segments.

And again, when we talk about the hospital organization, we think of it as one customer a lot of time.

And maybe sometimes implicitly, we know that they not just one customer.

But we know for when you make an attempt to identify who are the different segments.

So like selling a product, is this complex, this is the heart of the product.

The idea from selling a design that we have seen same.

But we think hear substance.

And I think what we need to do is we are half, in my opinion, putting enough emphasis on understanding how what value it has, all the different customer segments in the organization that we're going to and articulate the value.

And then the problem that so back to the question what needs to be done to witness greater the acceptance of research based decision making?

All of the other concept, I would say no, talk about any of these.

We should be asking what's the value, what our customer segments pick, and the concept that we're dealing with in the customer segment above, and they have some value.

And we need to understand that there's student itself okay.

And so what about if I have got sort of diagram here.

So and we're sitting there in the back.

So this is my power.

What about if research informed robotic design strategies.

Or is this have you could have a product where you make multiple customer segments and value propositions and do it.

This is not something.

Be out of every.

We can do it.

If you want.

And perhaps if you have a model that needs regards model of design and identify which buckets, identify the buckets and the customer segments potential value propositions and common examples to multiple customer segments in a more systematic way.

And that was the end of the design.

Be passionate about evidence supporting your argument that you have made some very, very traditional elements.

So let me stop here.

I have run out of time, but my sort of only one 10s thing would be the you from healthcare, which is a very arrogant of nicotine, a much more complex than where this, you know, this is just a stakeholder from the where we have social, economical, genetic, material, health behavior.

We have so many more players in that been compared to this particular design and has, as you to say, that has been kind of long and physical.

And his role in how to manage things.

We you to say, well, I didn't like what the customer segments work and very few at some.

And that becomes a much more daunting task compared to what we needed to get at that.

So with that, let me stop here and open up for questions.

And thank you so much, Doctor Patti, very informative presentation.

And actually, very, very directly connected, connected to the theme of our lecture series to identify potential gaps between the research that we do in academia, the research that we do in industry, and the clients and users needs.

Thank you so much.

So questions from our audience, George.

Thank you for your presentation.

Sorry about my voice.

I forgot to bring water and, in light of, the president cutting back on funding for universities, if you were a faculty member in architecture and you are an architect.

What what would you do to keep your research moving forward in spite of, the lack of funding from the federal government?

Right.

So, I, I mean, this is something happened.

This is very fresh in terms of the kind of events, right?

And I had been thinking of the same thing over the past 2 to 3 days.

Columbia funding was after, and my immediate reaction would be that a lot of, you know, fundamental research happening in the industry happens in the university as and then with all the applications that you go ahead and, and everybody's money in the industry, they do a lot of fun.

It's not difficult to study.

There's a lot of funding in the second that has gone on.

So there are other forces that we need to be more creative in tackling.

But the question of of that was what is the value?

So we have to think about that in proportion to get to the bottom.

And and I think, you know, make more sense to that sense before it makes more sense to, to play this game so that you have the right people from different disciplines.

And I don't see that question that have that impact.

And the.

Oh, you know, are limited number of funds available, more and more people for more practical for me, it makes more sense to get it back on my attention in more on what value added proposing and who who are going.

So we played this game, and I personally came to the conclusion, after I spent four years on a proposal and, had and we were going to have a federal health research center that a person I worked with, I flew out there, had left or was fired.

I don't know what happened, and they didn't even contact me.

So I said to myself, in my own mind, I don't want to work with these people again, this huge bureaucracy.

So we sort of set up our own research and working with undergraduates who, are not yet clones of us.

They're still fresh, the graduate students.

And I hope I'm not harming you by saying that they have figured out our system, and the undergraduates had not yet figured out the system.

And so, I find them fresher with ideas, and which is pretty cool.

If you could have a think tank right there in the research and design studio practice, you and other people later on and figure out the funding and the university, they can tell us which research and what they're interested in is the dollar sign.

How many dollars did you bring in?

Because they know that you spent on campus.

And then you think about funding for operational cost.

So the buildings were built under review and now they have to operate and operating costs of, the original construction.

All right.

So anyhow, I just I wanted to let you know, I'm still thinking about the science, as as the world is changing around us, and you people can come up with an idea published on social media in your webpage.

And don't go to much reduced because of the establishment is becoming that this.

At least under this machine now.

So let me let me add a couple of parts to that.

Educator success has great stories as people stand that we have multiple audiences here.

Again, going back to who is the audience?

The university, as an employee at the state university is only one of my audience.

And to satisfy the university can bring in pots of money.

And there are examples of this that I know often not many people where people bring in tons of money.

So the university is happy.

But that's not the outcome, right?

The output is scholarly publication, so if no publication comes out, no knowledge comes out, is donated because of the money you brought in.

You may have brought in the matter.

Or obviously you go against the society that the enlisted is happy because they got some money and not to blame it, but it has absolutely no impact on people in the society that that is the ultimate audience as faculty, as graduate students, or as professionals who walk out of here and work in some corporations, the real actions of the society in general.

So it's not any less important because what an employee that they are important, but they have to keep in mind that we have multiple sort of audience here.

So I am not going to see from one not bringing in any money but auction as opposed to bringing in money and not others.

But that is my mind.

Thank you.

And give another party.

Yeah, it's not my first time.

Be in your lecture each time, just in the lightning.

And so thank you so much for a wonderful lecture.

And then I noticed that you are, a faculty member in the Department of Interior Design, right?

I am a faculty member in Department of Design.

Design?

We have the undergraduate program that I to teach that is integrated.

Okay, so I noticed you for the college of Health and Human Sciences is under the health and human side.

That's amazing.

Yeah.

Your, Texas Tech to put, you know, the right context of between that is no.

Yeah.

That is good.

Yeah.

I was telling Alexandra that I feel so lucky to be the new consensus because I walk over to my office, my next door neighbor is a mental health professional.

The other one is a neuroscientist.

At the time you get into the lab and then family studies, I go to the hallway and and that makes the atmosphere so exciting for me.

Yeah, that a lot of time I don't have to go outside the other school for expert.

I but a lot of expert is in house studying angles architecture, going hand and all over.

I know all over the site and other people and all this and they do that and we go, we are architects, we monitor that.

That's amazing.

Because, you know, that makes the multidisciplinary collaboration so naturally happen.

They produce a great model.

That's right.

And also, I'm just, you know, I, I was very confusing in the past several months thinking about, you know, the research.

What was that about?

So that I, you mentioned the value and the position.

I think that part of is soft.

My confusion.

Thank you.

Because because I think you know what we are deciding what we are researching about is for home.

For what?

Right.

That's the right thing we are going to.

So, you know, we researchers talking about the research results as evidence and design and talking about science as evidence, but are we doing the right thing?

Are we teaching the student doing the right thing?

I think that's the main question we need to answer.

And also also I do research, industrial design.

And you want to talk about another thing is are you getting it's valuable that are getting as much as someone from medicine or nursing telling me what do following in the activity with glass.

Right.

So we we must never forget that our real audience is not enough.

I mean, we can still go to architectural conferences and conferences and so on and and on.

People talk in front of people and they what they how what a great researcher you are.

That is.

No that's good.

You know, your peer has to sort of recognize your work.

And not saying that it's, you know, less valuable.

But the real value is when people, the real audience, you know, what we have done is very close.

So we need to always think about if it is okay, is and who is the ultimate audience and what kind of value can be generated for them, as opposed to how can I publish for papers so that I can get my opinion?

I mean, I'm not saying that's not important, but there are two different categories of that.

Yeah, that that's amazing.

I think, you know, when we talk about, you know, research besides that evidence and, but a lot of research having the limitations and we talk about design as the evidence.

But until you prove that right, that decides, you know, the right way to improve the quality of life, to improve human health, you cannot prove that, you know, until you do your research on that.

To your point.

So, yeah, thank you for that.

Thank question is where the impact should be and what impact we're making.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for raising that question.

This is such an important gap that we need to address and work on.

Thank you so much again for your house.

Thank you.

It was a pleasure meeting all of you.

Absolutely.

Thank you.