♪ (heroic music) ♪ ♪ ♪ - Hello and welcome to Comic Culture.

I'm Terence Dollard, a professor in the Department of Mass Communication at the University of North Carolina at Pembroke.

My guest today is writer, Louis Southard.

Louis, welcome to Comic Culture.

- Thank you so much for having me, Professor.

It's a real honor to be on the show.

- Louis, your comic is an interesting one.

It's called Laugh Riot, and it is sort of a cross between V for Vendetta, The Watchmen, and current events.

So could you tell us a little bit about this new idea that you have?

- Well, Laugh Riot is basically the ultimate passion project of mine as of right now.

It's an eight issue mini series.

Basically, I can sum it up as Looney Tunes versus 1984.

I really wanted to just take a lot of my frustrations with real world events and things I genuinely love, like conspiracy theories, history, art history, as well as like pure Americana.

Funnily enough, I consider Looney Tunes to be one of the biggest pieces of Americana, and just put that in a blender of just, just everything I like in comics.

So I've managed to make a really fun book with artist Devlin Baker, and it's just fantastic.

It's one of the biggest thrills of my career so far creatively.

- And that career includes trips to Marvel and DC.

So as somebody who is kind of working on your own project rather than a legacy character that you can't really do much with, because obviously at the end of the day, Daredevil or Batman's gotta go back in the box the way you found them.

So as you're working on your own idea, now this is something you call it a passion project.

So what is it about this concept that really intrigues you?

- A bit of context, I really kind of fell out of love with comics due to events that happened last year.

I've been in the industry for most of my adult life since I was 19, and now I'm 26.

Last year I was 25 and I kind of came to like a weird crossroads with my relationship with the industry.

I realized I was putting a lot of pressure and stress on myself to stay relevant or trying to make projects that I, trying to create almost the perfect pitch as opposed to creating the perfect project.

And it led to me essentially quitting and getting a new career.

I was a lumberjack for a while.

It just went into the woods on sabbatical and then a man came down in a helicopter and told me he needed me for one last job.

But that's just me being silly.

But basically after that, it was that thing of realizing, no, I have this itch, I love making comics, but if I'm going to go back, I have to have a new mindset.

And it was very much, I want to make something that I want, like if I'm the only reader, then that is something I could be proud of.

And the fact that a lot of people have been interested in this project so far has been just the bonus of it.

But in terms of like this being a passion project on its own, it's me kind of adding a lot of things like that I specifically find interesting, like the fictional dystopia that this world's set in is called Usonia.

And that is a word I learned from Frank Lloyd Wright, who is an architect, who coined that term to describe something as like perfectly American.

And I say very brave of him to be like, I'm going to come up with a word and it's going to catch on as long as I keep using it.

But adding stuff like that, like using a lot of comic reference that I love or trying to make a comic inspired by the comics I really love, but give it the only personal twist that I can.

So stuff like that, just really trying to make a Louis Southard hodgepodge of things I really love.

- Now you mentioned that you left comics to become a lumberjack.

And on the surface, it sounds silly, but there's something to be said about a solitary job.

People who are doing something like, my brother would cut grass for a living.

And one of the smartest people you'll ever meet, because I think there's something about doing a job where you are maybe operating a lot of machinery, but you're sort of by yourself that allows your brain to just drift off into these other directions.

You can kind of get into the Zen zone of, I'm just going to do this task, I'm going to make sure I don't get hurt.

But at the same time, your brain kind of travels in all these different directions.

And I'm just wondering if while you were doing that out in the woods, cutting down trees, if your mind is sort of just solving all these problems that you're creating, like story ideas, they're just kind of finding their way as you are doing something that doesn't necessarily take a lot of, I'm not going to say it in the wrong way, mental energy, the same way that being an airline pilot would - I think any manual labor job to a point gets boring, at least in your own head, because it is very routine.

So daydreaming is a necessity.

And I love daydreaming.

When I'm at the gym on the treadmill for an hour, all I do is daydream.

At work, I daydream.

So yeah, no, you're perfectly right.

But I think, I'm a big David Lynch fan.

And he's that kind of, he has that catching the big fish mentality of kind of, as you said, you zone out.

And some of the best ideas you'll ever have will just sort of pop into being 'cause you're too preoccupied with something else.

So you, as I said, you're zoned out.

Like you're kind of, the fish kind of swims into view and then you got to catch that.

So yeah, for this project, it was that kind of thing of like, it all started with the visual, the jester, the main character, Mary Andrew, 'cause in history there is that thing of jester's privilege.

The jester's the only one in a medieval society or like a monarchal society that has open reign or free reign to make fun of the king.

And I really liked that idea as like a anarchist figure.

Like this is the only person that can actually do anything in this sort of Uber, like tight organized society.

Like everything's controlled to a T. So you come up with something that's utterly chaotic.

So that was kind of the idea behind that.

- One of the things that I love about this concept for Laugh Riot is that I could envision this working in just about any time.

This could be something that would go hand in hand with V for Vendetta in the 80s, or it could be something that could happen 10 years from now.

It's sort of an evergreen idea, but it takes on a little bit of extra relevance now.

And I'm just wondering, as you are approaching the idea of an American, I guess, deity leader, cult of personality, is there any reservation that it might be taken the wrong way?

- That was the kind of whole thing from the beginning.

Me realizing, not the risk, 'cause that makes it sound like I'm doing something heroic, but it's just like, I think good art has to provoke in some way, or you're on the right track if it kind of generates a reaction.

- Sometimes when you are provoking the audience to think, especially in this polarized political age, there is that, and you said you don't necessarily feel that risk is a good word for this, but there is a risk, because there seems to be a little bit more my side's right, your side's wrong, that sort of silo thinking that we have in this country.

So again, as you're doing this, this is an idea that you have, you were able to get the first issue out, it's been well-received, the funding's there for issue two.

Have you heard any feedback that maybe somebody was a little upset with this?

- Not so far.

I think my attitude with it is, yeah, it has to provoke, but what started was when I was pitching it around to other editors, the feedback I got from them was that the book was unpublishable, not in terms of quality of the book, but because of subject matter.

And that was kind of the idea in my head of like, oh, I'm on the right track, or at least I'm saying something.

You see, I'm Gen Z, right?

I'm fairly young-ish.

I'm closer to 30 now than 20, though.

But the idea, I think with my generation specifically, and this is just my opinion, I think there's a really big amount of, I think, cynicism.

We have a whole new language of just negative terminology.

We have doom-scrolling and bed-rotting.

And growing up in a post-9/11 world, growing up in school systems, preparing for possibly a school shooter drill and stuff like that, it's a fairly, it can be a very upsetting world if you look into that.

And there are people saying that my generation is like one of the most depressed.

I've been very blessed in a way that I can put all these energies into the arts.

I can put my feelings and frustrations and my hopes in projects.

And "Laugh Riot" is very much that.

I think that's also just me trying to remain optimistic under the circumstances, and hopefully can get other people to make things, or at least channel those energies into something constructive, make something, as opposed to doing anything negative.

Like, actually, this is just me putting a lot of problems I have in day-to-day life, just in a book, in a power fantasy.

Like, I may not be able to do anything, or could do anything, but I can create a character that can in a story that's any direction we can go.

But the best part about this specific project is that each issue we fund, what can I do in this world to actually do something different?

And each issue, we match excess funds or surplus funds to donate to certain charities and causes that we feel are very important in this time.

Issue one, we are doing the Samir Project, which is for Palestinian families who are dislocated, I guess, and then the Trans Lifeline here in the States, which helps trans people in crisis.

- You mentioned that the arts is a way for you to focus, to try and make change.

You know, I think a lot of times we've accepted that the arts have just become a commodity, right?

If we watch a singing show, we wanna make sure that Simon likes us so we can move on to the next round, rather than, I like to sing because it brings me joy.

It's the same way that somebody might say, oh, I like to write, but it's not any good, so I'm not going to.

So as somebody who is writing to make a point, but also to make a buck, what would you say to somebody who's maybe not at your skill level?

I mean, you said you entered comics at the age of 19, which is, I mean, that's golden age sort of career right there, right?

You don't hear that happening in contemporary comics too much.

So as somebody who has been successful in the arts, what would you say to somebody who might say, oh, I would like to do it, but I don't think I'm good enough?

- I'd say it doesn't matter.

You have to try.

Like you should always, if you really want to do something or you feel passionate about something, it's like I said earlier, like this project, I don't actually care if anyone, you said like, oh, you're doing this 'cause you like it and doing it for a buck, but like to be 100% honest, I don't really care about that other stuff.

It's mostly about doing the work, making the work.

And I think that is sort of the attitude that's lost with corporate comics.

Like I said earlier about like creating the perfect pitch.

I think that becomes the strife of any industry professional.

'Cause yeah, you do want to advance in your career, but there comes a bit of a cost of you're no longer making things that are 100% yourself or like from you and your team.

So I think to anyone who is aspiring, like doesn't matter, just do it.

Just let it rip.

Who cares if one person reads it, 100 people, 1,000, as long as you're making art that's true to yourself, about things you care about, then it's a really wonderful thing.

And comics, in this day and age, like it's one of the most social mediums that you could be a part of if you wish to, 'cause you have to learn to be part of a team.

You have to learn to contact people and reach out and befriend people even.

It's led to me meeting a lot of wonderful people.

So if you are passionate or hoping to break into comics, like there's a lot of net gain and the result doesn't really matter.

It's all about being present and just the craft.

- And you mentioned putting together a team.

So how did you put your team together?

- I desperately wanna shout out this team.

I love this team so much.

So the artist is Devlin Baker.

He's a fantastic artist.

I've been describing him as like a young Frank Miller.

He has a very kinetic style.

I did a project in 2024 called "Comics Are Dying, The Comic."

Don't let the title fool you.

It was all about the history of the comic book industry.

And it was told with over 100 artists.

He was one of the artists I met on that project.

So he was like the first guy who came into mind 'cause I saw the talent he had.

I wrote this script with him in mind as the number one choice.

So I reached out to him and I was so lucky that he said yes.

And he did the coloring as well.

The letterer is Buddy Bedoin, who is, I've been working with him since I started in comics.

And I met him on Reddit of all places.

That's the one thing that's great about the internet.

Like if you wanna make a team, like there's plenty of people who need a gig or wanna just work.

It's all about just like taking the time and patience to find them.

But, and then to wrap it all up, the covers are by Julianne Gria.

She's a fantastic illustrator.

I work with her on many projects now.

And she's like a jack of all trades in terms of like just the style.

Like the one of them, talking about passion earlier, one of the best or most fun things about this series, each cover is a beautiful painting that she makes, but we're taking inspiration from American propaganda paintings through history and then supplanting it with the theme or imagery from the issue itself.

So issue one, before Uncle Sam, there was Columbia, the female embodiment of America.

We took one of her paintings and that is issue one.

Issue two is the Manifest Destiny painting.

Issue three, we've got Uncle Sam and then, you know, so on and so forth.

So like, it's just been a real treat to work with these people that I really, really love as creators.

- Working in a collaborative medium like comics means that there's going to be some compromise.

And you said that you had worked on the idea, the concept and the script for this comic before you got in touch with Devlin to kind of become the artistic partner.

When he starts looking at the page, is he saying, I can do something different here?

Is there a back and forth where perhaps there's going to be a little feedback, a little editing on your part to lean into the strength of the art?

Is there something where, you know, you're going to maybe take something out because he can cover it in a way that words would fail?

- I always put on every script that I make, the golden rule, which is, if you have a better idea, go for it, 'cause I don't really believe in, this has been the theme, like, this is a creative industry and I don't believe in restricting the other creatives from like, kind of going hog wild with their own ideas.

So I kind of stole this line from Tony Gilroy, 'cause he said he did this with his seasons of Andor, like, oh, these people are working on these projects because they care, induce mania.

And like, I think that's kind of been the attitude I have with all my projects, 'cause it's like, you know, like the script is, scripts can always be changed, like, but I can't give you an apple and then you're going to give me an orange, but like, I can give, ask for a Honeycrisp and you give me a Granny Smith, still an apple at the end of the day.

Like, I think that's kind of my attitude with anything I make.

I don't believe in being a tyrant over my projects, 'cause then it really becomes more of a job for the others and less of a collaborative experience.

- In comics, it's this partnership, really, between the writer and the artist, and the fact that you have to sort of be able to ask questions and not get defensive with the answer.

You know, why are you doing it this way?

So as you're getting feedback, even throughout your career, has there been an instance where, you know, again, and I mean this in the nicest way, you're a young gentleman getting into an industry filled with veterans who might seem like they know better and they might be saying a question, asking you a question that to them is to clarify, but to you might seem like it's a stark criticism of what you're trying to do.

So how did you sort of learn to roll with what they're giving you in terms of that feedback and understanding perhaps that some of it is going to be really positive and maybe a small amount might be negative and you need to, you know, work with that relationship to smooth it out?

- When I was first starting out, I really struggled with that, with my projects.

They're very much my baby, and at least at that point, like, oh, I have to take care of this thing.

Like, no one can muck with the vision, but it took a pandemic, it took a publisher shutdown, and it took some editors to really beat that out of me and teach me that, like, while this is, like, a creative arts business, business is the key word there.

Like, this is an industry.

So after that, like, I've always kind of looked at it, like, be open to feedback, you know, be open to criticism with all my projects, even if it's kind of me at the lead.

I work with an editor, Kev Kettner is the editor of "Laugh Riot."

They will see the things that I can't.

And I think if you are dead serious about, you know, being a professional comics writer or creator, you need to be open to people taking a second look, people criticizing, and, you know, you can't take it personally, you know?

There's no sense in being, like, we all love what we're making, and it can suck if people don't like it.

Just make it better, or if anything, those restrictions or those criticisms, they force you to climb out of that box that you were originally in.

You can come up with something even better.

May not be the way you originally intended, but, you know, you might be a lot happier with the end result.

- It's one of those tough lessons to learn.

I know in my role here at the university, students tend to be very precious about their work.

They tend to think that if you say something about an issue that you see, that you're really, you know, making a point about their personality because they don't separate the work between, you know, helping somebody, seeing an issue with what you've done rather than a person there.

So it takes a bit of doing to get into that comfortable frame of mind where you can say, okay, I understand I've got a weakness here, and being willing to take that criticism.

I'd like to pivot, if I could, to talk about the unpleasant part of producing comics, crowdfunding.

So let's talk a little bit about how you're able to connect with potential readers, so that way you can get the comics made.

- I am a people person, fortunately.

So the PR bit has been really kind of easy.

In terms of crowdfunding, that is like the most viable sort of thing for any creative of any age at this point, young or old, from anywhere, to actually make comics that you want to make.

That is the Wild West or new frontier of the industry at this moment in time.

So for me, I've done the direct market.

I broke in with the direct market.

I won't name the publishers, but I will say they no longer exist, but I'm sure the people who work there do.

But those were probably some of the most horrendous experiences of my life in terms of comics.

And being beholden to someone else, especially if they are bad faith actors, that can create a whole new set of headaches.

Like, oh, I just want to make a book.

And then now I have to deal with like a legal snafu for like the better part of two years.

So doing crowdfunding, I worked with a publishing partner in 2024 called Zoop.

And they are a crowdfunder that they did the "Comics are Dying" graphic novel, but they handled all fulfillment.

And they connected me with more PR people to add onto the roster.

And that taught me a lot about promotion, taught me a lot about kind of getting an incredibly independent project off the ground.

That instilled me with a lot of confidence to just break out on my own and just go onto Kickstarter and make that.

'Cause it's like, then I'm not, I don't have to wait.

I don't have to wait for the green light.

The green light's there when I decide it is.

And I think that is, and like, I've been in the industry for a while that there are people that will just come to the project simply because I'm there or because Devlin's there.

Like, this is a pretty experienced crew.

So that's really a blessing.

But if you are like just starting out, I think limiting your expectations or being realistic with it is a big thing, I think.

And just putting that effort in.

Like, you have to, you cannot quit in terms of spreading the word.

Like, you have to, like, get every, go to every website and post.

Go to Reddit, go to Facebook, go to Twitter.

Go nutso.

Like, you have to be your own biggest fan and you have to make people care, especially if it's an independent thing.

Like, you have to be your own biggest cheerleader.

- It's not one of those skills that you necessarily equate with being a creative.

You have to be willing to go out there and bang the drum and say, "Here I am.

"I'm doing something interesting to get people involved."

And I was one of those people who just came across your project on Blue Sky.

I just saw that you were promoting and I thought to myself, "This looks pretty interesting."

I did some clicking, I did some checking up on it, and I reached out to you for this conversation.

So again, as you're doing this, are you realizing that there are skills that you have that you didn't necessarily think you would ever be using in terms of administration?

Or is this something where you're saying, "Gosh, I really need to get on top of X, Y, and Z "because I've learned that this is a weakness that I have."

- I would say, based on what you just said, in terms of posting, you never know who's actually paying attention.

I've had meetings with editors that I'd never spoken to before in my life simply because they saw a project from before that I was talking about online.

And then they reach out a year later, like, "Oh, hey, I saw that."

They remember you.

I think you'd be surprised who remembers you.

But in an administrative sense, there's not really much to it.

This is the greatest piece of advice to everyone watching.

If you've been kind of glazing over, this is the best piece of advice I could possibly give to you, the viewer at home.

Google is a thing.

If you want to find someone's email at a certain press, like comicbook.com or CBR or Comic Watch, any of those places, those emails are readily available.

If you have a comic book project on Kickstarter or wherever, you can email any of those people and they'll add you into their list.

They'll add you into their watchdog list of like, "Oh, hey, check out these projects."

If you're so emboldened, there's plenty of places that will do interviews with you.

And you don't have to be like Scott Snyder.

You don't have to be Joshua Williamson.

Yeah, I'm Louis Southard.

Like I'm sure everyone at home, this is the first time you've ever seen me.

But like I managed to like go, like I can do these interviews with certain people because like I simply sent an email.

And that's like for all aspects of comics.

And my first biggest project, I worked with David Hahn.

He worked on Batman.

He worked on Wonder Woman.

He worked on a bunch of stuff.

And he's three, four decades older than me.

But I guess my own naivete, I was just like, "Oh, hey, I'm working on a project.

Would you like to work with me?

It's about goth cowboys."

And he's like, "Hey, I like goth cowboys."

"Yeah, sure."

And like, bam, there you go.

It's just, you know, it's all about finding people who are on that wavelength.

But I think a lot of people are afraid of rejection.

Get that out of your head.

Just send emails to whoever it is you want to work to.

Be polite, be professional, and you know, be cordial.

But you know, and you will maybe get a no.

You may hear from nobody.

But you honestly have no idea who will say yes.

And it can be very surprising who will say yes.

- You know, it's interesting because when I do this show, I spend a lot of time trying to find those guests and sending out emails.

And the amount of times I don't hear something back is pretty close to the amount of times that I do hear something back.

And you know, the fact that we've been doing this for a few years has made a lot easier for us to connect with people.

But it's always tough when you're getting started to hear no because you think, well, that's it.

And it's really tough to be persistent because no matter how many times someone tells you, well, just keep at it, it's a little deflating when you get told no that first couple of dozen times.

So, you know, how did you learn to just keep going at it and not taking no for an answer?

- Well, you just get rejected the first hundred times and then you kind of get desensitized over time.

Like, I don't know.

I think when I was starting out, you will just receive rejections flat out.

Like the day you get a yes will be one of the biggest dreams of your life.

But even that yes can be a nightmare as I alluded to previously.

But yeah, it's just like, what is it?

Exposure therapy.

You just have to keep doing it time and time again.

And I know I kind of joked about it, but you'll just learn that that's just part of the business.

I think that's just part, that's not even business.

That's just part of life.

Like, you know, you can do anything and, you know, or you could want something and if somebody else doesn't want it, well, that's life.

Tough tiddlywinks, you know?

Like, it's just learning to accept that with grace, learning to, it's, I said it kind of earlier, now you have to think outside the box.

Now you have to change, you know?

Don't hold onto any, that's another good piece of advice I've learned.

Don't hold onto any concept or dream so desperately or so much.

Like, learn to give it up and then move on to the next thing or move on to the next project or next idea.

And it can suck if you really cared about it, but, you know, it's, maybe there'll be something a whole lot better after, you know, a little bit more work.

- Louis, they're telling us that we are out of time.

If the folks at home wanted to find out more about you on the web, where can they find you?

- You can Google me @LouisSouthard.

You can find me on social media @LouisSouthard or you can check out my whole career at www.LouisSouthard.com.

- Well, Louis, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule to talk with me today.

It's been a fun conversation.

- No, thank you so much.

This was great.

- I'd like to thank everyone at home for watching Comic Culture.

We will see you again soon.

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