>> GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S PLAN TO KEEP PEOPLE FROM LEAVING NEW YORK.

CONGRESS THREATENS THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES, AND BIDEN'S ATTEMPT AT BORDER CONTROL.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED THIS EVENING BY NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, SARAH PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, AND LUKE PERRY AND RICK FENNER, BOTH FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

GOVERNOR KATHY HOCHUL GAVE HER STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH LAST WEEK, AND ONE OF HER BIG PROPOSALS WAS A PLAN TO STEM POPULATION LOSS BY BUILDING MORE, AND MORE AFFORDABLE, HOUSING.

HOCHUL'S “NEW YORK HOUSING COMPACT ” CALLS FOR UPSTATE CITIES, TOWNS AND VILLAGES TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF HOMES BY 1% EVERY THREE YEARS.

DOWNSTATE, THE TARGET IS MORE AGGRESSIVE-- 3% MORE HOUSING UNITS EVERY THREE YEARS.

IF TOWNS DON'T MEET THE TARGETS DEVELOPERS CAN GO TO A NEW STATE HOUSING BOARD TO GET APPROVAL FOR PROJECTS.

SARAH, THIS IS A PLAN THAT SHOULD BE IMPLEMENTED?

>> WELL, I'M NOT SURE IT IS GOING TO MEANINGFULLY REDUCE POPULATION LOSS IN THE STATE BECAUSE PEOPLE LEAVE THE STATE FOR A VARIETY OF REASONS AND HOUSING COSTS ARE JUST ONE FACTOR OUT OF MANY.

THAT SAID, BUILDING MORE HOUSING AND ESPECIALLY BILLING MORE AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS A REALLY IMPORTANT GOAL IN AND OF ITSELF.

AND THE HOUSING SHORTAGE ITSELF IS NOT CONFINED TO NEW YORK STATE.

THIS IS A NATIONAL CRISIS.

IN THE PLACES WE NEED HOUSING THE MOST, THE PEOPLE OFTEN DON'T WANT IT AND THE TOWNS WON'T ALLOW IT.

AND SO THIS SORT OF A COMBINATION OF NIMBYISM AND RESTRICTIVE ZONING ORDINANCES THAT HAVE REALLY PREVENTED MORE HOUSING.

I WOULD JUST GIVE AN ANECDOTAL EXAMPLE FROM MY OWN VILLAGE IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

THERE HAVE BEEN TWO PROPOSALS THAT HAVE BEEN REJECTED TO BUILD MULTIFAMILY HOUSING ON REALLY BLIGHTED COMMERCIAL PLOTS THAT ARE REAL EYE SORES IN THE COMMUNITY.

BUT THAT ARE LOCATED RIGHT IN THE HEART OF THE VILLAGE WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE OF PARKS AND RESTAURANTS AND BARS.

AND THE PROCESS WAS SO LONG AND DRAWN OUT, ONE OF THOSE LOTS IS STILL EMPTY.

THE OTHER IS GOING TO BE A GROCERY STORE.

>> WOULDN'T THE PLAN-- HOCHUL SPOKE OF NIMBYISM ON STEROIDS AT ONE POINT.

WOULDN'T THE PLAN GET AROUND SOME OF THAT?

SOME OF THAT LOCAL ZONING?

>> IT COULD.

AT FIRST I WAS SOMEWHAT SKEPTICAL FOR THE SAME REASON THAT PEOPLE LEAVE THE STATE FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS BUT GETTING AT THE ZONING ORDINANCE YOU MENTIONED.

RIGHT NOW NEW HARTFORD HAS THE SITUATION WHERE SANGERTOWN MALL IS DYING.

IT LOST ITS TOO MAIN ANCHORS, BOTH PENNEY'S AND MACY'S IS GONE.

THERE WAS A PROPOSAL PUT FORWARD TO TAKE PART OF THE PARKING LOT AND TURN IT INTO 187 UNITS.

THE IDEA WAS TO DEAL WITH AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WAS TO REDUCE STORMWATER PROBLEMS THAT THEY HAVE AND TO PROVIDE SOME REVENUE FOR PYRAMID TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN THE REST OF THE MALL BECAUSE WE'VE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN MALLS BECOME DECREPIT AND RUN DOWN.

THEY NEEDED A ZONING ORDINANCE CHANGED AND IT LOST.

3-2.

THE ARGUMENTS GIVEN...

THEY HADN'T SEEN THE WHOLE PLAN.

AND 2: OVERALL, THIS WASN'T THE RIGHT PLACE FOR HOUSING.

NO ONE IS ASKING THOSE PEOPLE TO LIVE THERE.

THAT'S NOT THEIR CALL.

BUT THE MAIN THING, ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED AGAINST IT SAID THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE TRAFFIC AND CONGESTION.

THIS WAS A MALL AND THOUSANDS OF CARS USED TO COME IN EVERY DAY AND 187 UNITS NOW IS GOING TO CREATE A TRAFFIC AND CONGESTION PROBLEM.

THIS MAY GO THROUGH LATER BUT THIS IS THE TYPE OF THING THAT MAKES ME QUESTION WHAT IS REALLY BEHIND THIS.

>> YEAH, BUT BEFORE I GET INTO THE WEEDS OF IT, AND I DON'T DISAGREE WITH IT, BUT I DO WANT TO PART WITH WHERE SARAH STARTED AND THAT'S THE QUESTION OF WHAT CAUSES THE POPULATION LOSSES BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR HAS PITCHED THIS, PUSHED FOR EXPANDING HOUSING ON THIS IDEA THAT THAT IS A DRIVING FORCE BEHIND THE POPULATION LOSS.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, FOR SOMETIME, NEW YORK HAS LOST MORE POPULATION, AND IN FACT IT'S LEADING THE COUNTRY IN THAT REGARD, WHEREAS OTHER STATES LIKE FLORIDA, LIKE TEXAS, LIKE IDAHO, ARE EXPERIENCING POPULATION GROWTH.

IT'S NOT THAT FOLKS IN NEW YORK ARE MOVING THERE, BUT THERE IS SOMETHING THAT THEY'RE DOING.

NOW WITH WE DIG INTO THE CAUSES OF WHY THIS IS THE CASE, WHAT WE FIND FROM REPUBLICANS IS AN EMPHASIS ON MAKING NEW YORK SAFER, REDUCING TAXES AND MAKING IT MORE BUSINESS FRIENDLY.

SO I THINK WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK CLOSELY AT WHETHER OR NOT HOUSING AVAILABILITY OR THE LACK THEREOF IS DRIVING THIS BECAUSE THEN THE SOLUTION CAN BE CAREFULLY CALIBRATED TO ADDRESS THAT.

CERTAINLY WE ARE GOING TO NEED MORE HOUSING IF THE MICRON PLANT COMES THROUGH, BUT HOUSING AIN'T GOING TO DO THE WHOLE THING FOR MICRON.

WE ALSO HAVE TO IMPROVE THE AVAILABILITY OF A STRONG FORCE, WHICH MEANS IMPROVING EDUCATION.

SO IT'S WHAT ARE THE CAUSES, WHAT IS THIS FIXING?

>> I WOULD TAKE A STEP BACK FURTHER.

NEW YORK STATE IS NOT LOSING POPULATION.

OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS, WE'VE GAINED OVER 4% IN POPULATION.

YOU LOOK AT THE CENSUS DATA AND WHY WE ARE LOSING CONGRESSIONAL SEATS BECAUSE WE ARE NOT GROWING AS FAST AS SOME OF THE OTHER PLACES.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT POPULATION TRENDS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, OBVIOUSLY THEY DIFFER DEPENDING WHERE YOU ARE.

THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN UPSTATE AND DOWNSTATE.

UPSTATE THERE ARE DIFFERENCES ACROSS REGIONS AND WITHIN REGIONS.

THE CAPITOL DISTRICT HAS BEEN GAINING POPULATION OVER THE LAST 10 YEARS AND THE MOHAWK VALLEY HAS LOST 2% POPULATION BUT UTICA IS ONE OF THE FASTEST GROWING CITIES IN THE STATE, SECOND ONLY TO BUFFALO.

SO I THINK THE GOAL OF INCREASING HOUSING, PARTICULARLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS WISE.

BUT REQUIRING ALL MUNICIPALITIES TO REACH CERTAIN THRESHOLDS ISN'T SUFFICIENTLY NUANCED TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENT TRENDS BETWEEN REGIONS AND WITHIN REGIONS AND I THINK AS THIS GOES TO THE LEGISLATURE AND NEGOTIATIONS CONTINUE, THAT WOULD BE WHAT I WOULD FOCUS ON IN TRYING TO IMPROVE THIS PROPOSAL.

>> AND UPSTATE, MANY OF THE MUNICIPALITIES ALREADY MEET THAT THRESHOLD.

IN UPSTATE NEW YORK, I THINK I READ THAT MAYBE 80% ALREADY DO.

SO REALLY THIS SEEMS LIKE IT'S TARGETED PERHAPS AT THE DOWNSTATE SUBURBS.

>> LONG ISLAND IS ONE OF THE BIG BIGGEST IMPEDIMENTS AND SLOWEST GROWTH OF HOUSING.

>> SYRACUSE HAS A HUGE SUPPLY OF HOMES WAITING TO BE BOUGHT OUT OF THE LAND BANK AND SO-- I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO MENTION ONE OTHER THING THAT I THINK YOU TOUCHED ON, SARAH OR MAYBE IT WAS RICK, THAT HAS DO WITH THIS QUESTION OF HOW MUCH CONTROL LOCAL COMMUNITIES COULD HAVE OR SHOULD HAVE OVER THIS.

I THINK THAT LOCAL COMMUNITIES SHOULD HAVE A SIGNIFICANT SAY IN WHAT THEIR COMMUNITIES LOOK LIKE, HOW THEY EXPAND AND IN WHICH WAY BECAUSE THEY KNOW BEST BEYOND ANECDOTES AS TO WHY THE POPULATION CHANGES ARE HAPPENING.

BUT I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

A LOT OF THIS IS ABOUT DOWNSTATE BUT COUCHED IN TERMS OF AFFECTING UPSTATE AS WELL.

>> I DON'T THINK THE LOCAL CITIZENS AND GOVERNMENTS WOULD OR WOULD GIVE UP ENTIRELY CONTROL.

I MEAN THAT'S WHY WE HAVE PLANS THAT ARE FORMED AT THE LOCAL LEVEL SO YOU CAN HAVE OPEN SPACE AND SO YOU CAN HAVE PUBLIC PLACES.

BUT IN REALITY, THEY'RE JUST WAY TOO MUCH VETO POWER ON THE PART OF VERY SMALL MINORITIES OF NEIGHBORS THAT DON'T WANT A PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT AND THAT IS REALLY HINDERING, I THINK... >> I THINK NEW YORK STATE'S FRAGMENTED SYSTEM OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS REALLY HAS WORKED AGAINST IT IN COMPARISON TO OTHER STATES.

CONSOLIDATION IS NOT WORKED HERE AND SO I WOULD DISAGREE A LITTLE BIT, NINA I THINK LOCAL GOVERNMENTS SOMETIMES GET INTO THIS NIMBY THING, NOT IN MY BACKYARD AND THEY DON'T TAKE THE BIGGER PICTURE IN MIND.

>> TO CLARIFY I WAS TALKING REALLY ABOUT LOCAL COMMUNITIES AND WHAT ARE NOT, AS YOU SAID, INDIVIDUAL HOMEOWNERS, VERSUS COMMUNITIES.

LIKE COMSTOCK IN NEW YORK.

>> THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT BEGAN THIS WEEK TO TAKE WHAT IT CALLED EXTRAORDINARY MEASURES TO KEEP THE NATION FROM BREACHING ITS DEBT LIMIT THAT'S THE AMOUNT OF MONEY THE GOVERNMENT CAN BORROW TO PAY ITS BILLS.

WITHIN MONTHS THOSE MEASURES WOULD NO LONGER WORK AND THE UNITED STATES WOULD DEFAULT.

ECONOMISTS SAY THAT'S UNTHINKABLE.

THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL SYSTEM RESTS ON THE FULL FAITH AND CREDIT OF THE UNITED STATES.

THE NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE WANTS TO USE THE DEBT CEILING TO FORCE BIG BUDGET CUTS.

SHOULD THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION GO ALONG?

AND SAY OKAY, LET'S CUT THE BUDGET BECAUSE BEE CAN'T DEFAULT?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE EXTRAORDINARY METHODS THAT ARE BEING USED RIGHT NOW ARE SIMPLY POSTPONING REGULARLY SCHEDULED CONTRIBUTIONS TO RETIREMENT FUNDS FOR CIVIL SERVANTS AND FOR POSTAL WORKERS.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT ARE AIMED AT PAYING BENEFITS INTO THE FUTURE.

TO THE EXTENT THAT THESE PROGRAMS HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO MEET CURRENT OBLIGATIONS, THIS ISN'T A BIG DEAL.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT.

BY JUNE, THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE ENOUGH AND WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO SEE OTHER SPENDING CUTS.

AND SO THAT'S LED TO THE DISCUSSION OF WHAT IS CALLED PAYMENT PRIORITIZATION AND WHO IS GOING TO GET MONEY IF THERE ISN'T ENOUGH MORE EVERYONE.

MOST ECONOMISTS SEE THAT THIS IS GOING TO CREATE A HUGE PROBLEM FOR THE ECONOMY IN TERMS OF NOT ONLY LEADING TO HIGHER INTEREST RATES IN A RECESSION BUT IT'S ALSO GOING TO DO GREAT DAMAGE TO THE REPUTATION OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

I FIND IT, YOU KNOW, HYPOCRITICAL THAT REPUBLICANS ARE NOT SUPPORTING THE DEBT CEILING WHEN DONALD TRUMP BECAME PRESIDENT, THE DEBT WAS ABOUT $20 TRILLION.

WHEN HE LEFT OFFICE IT WAS $27 TRILLION.

MOST OF THE REPUBLICANS THAT ARE RATTLE SABERING RIGHT NOW PASSED HIS TAX CUT BILL, PASSED THE METROPOLITAN RELIEF AND SO PASSESSED THE PANDEMIC RELIEF AND SO THEY'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS RIGHT NOW AT THEY SAY IS THEY'RE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO MEET.

SO I THINK IT'S SOMEWHAT RECKLESS OF THEM TO BE MAKING THESE CLAIMS.

>> NINA, YOU ARE CHOMPING AT THE BIT TO GET IN THERE.

>> YEAH, I AGREE WITH YOU THERE, RICK.

THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF HYPOCRISY THERE.

IF YOU LOOK OVER THE YEARS WHETHER YOU MARK IT AT 1917 OR 1939 WHEN WE FIRST PUT IN PLACE LEGISLATION CONCERNING THE DEBT LIMIT, REPUBLICANS HAVE RAISED IT MORE THAN DEMOCRATS.

REPUBLICANS 54 TIMES COMPARED TO 40 TIMES FOR DEMOCRATS AND THE PRESIDENT THAT SCREAMED MOST ABOUT CONTROLLING SPENDING, RONALD REAGAN, DID IT FULLY 18 TIMES.

SO THERE IS SOME HYPOCRISY HERE.

BUT I THINK THE OTHER THING IS, ON THIS PAYMENT PRIORITIZATION PLAN THAT THIS VERY SMALL RIGHT WING PART OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS TALKING ABOUT, I MEAN SO FAR THEY FLOATED THE IDEA OF, OKAY, LET'S PAY FOR MEDICARE, LET'S PAY FOR SOCIAL SECURITY, LET'S PAY FOR SPENDING.

BUT WE ARE NOT REALLY SURE WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH MEDICAID OR, MORE IMPORTANTLY, TO BORDER CONTROL, WHICH IS ONE OF THE SIGNATURE ISSUES OF REPUBLICANS, ESPECIALLY PROBLEMATIC.

I'M LAYING OUT THE PROBLEMS, ANOTHER ONE THAT IS JUST THIS FACT THAT YOU'VE GOT THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS THAT HAS BECOME BEHOLDEN.

THERE IS NO DISCUSSION.

RIGHT?

THEY'RE DICTATING AND KEVIN McCARTHY SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF THE FACT THAT HE SOLD THE FARM IN ORDER TO GET THE HOUSE SPEAKERSHIP.

WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THIS PLAN WAS BEING WORKED OUT BEHIND THE SCENES.

>> OKAY SO ON THE DEBT ITSELF, AND THE DEBT CEILING, WE HAVE BEEN DOWN THIS ROAD BEFORE, RIGHT?

AND THE LAST TIME DURING THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IT WAS THE SEQUESTRATION PLAN AND THAT DID HOLD COSTS DOWN.

SO MAYBE THAT'S NOT SO BAD.

>> WELL, I THINK THE OUTCOME WAS NOT GOOD, RIGHT?

IT ACTUALLY, ACCORDING TO A LOT OF ECONOMISTS, IT REALLY SLOWED DOWN THE RECOVERY.

SO I THINK IN ANSWER TO YOUR ORIGINAL QUESTION, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION DEMOCRATS SHOULD SAY NO AND NOT NEGOTIATE WITH THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS ON THIS AT ALL.

THIS IS A WHOLLY AVOIDABLE CRISIS AND YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULD NOT BE-- WE SHOULDN'T ENCOURAGE FURTHER BRINKSMANSHIP ON THE PART OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

AND YOU KNOW ONE THING THAT SORT OF DISMAYS ME ABOUT THE CONVERSATION IN THE MEDIA ABOUT THIS IS THE HEADLINES ARE ABOUT, YOU KNOW, CONGRESS HAS TO NEGOTIATE.

WASHINGTON NEEDS TO SAVE US FROM THIS CRISIS.

AND TREATING IT AS THOUGH IT IS A BIPARTISAN PROBLEM WHEN IN REALITY, AS NINA WAS SUGGESTING, IT IS REALLY A PROBLEM OF A VERY MINORITY WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OF LIKE REALLY EXTREME REPUBLICANS WHO ARE PUSHING SPENDING CUTS THAT ARE WILDLY UNPOPULAR WITH THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> I HAVE A LITTLE DIFFERENT TAKE ON IT IN THE SENSE THAT YES I THINK THE REPUBLICANS DESERVE BLAME FOR BEING HYPOCRITICAL.

I ENVISION PRESIDENT BIDEN BEING ON THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN SAYING LIKE CLINT EASTWOOD IN GRANDTARINO SAYING GET OFF MY LAWN.

BUT I THINK IT EXTENDS BEYOND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND REPUBLICANS.

IF THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE AMERICANS DON'T WANT TO CUT ANYTHING IN THE FEDERAL BUDGET EXCEPT FOREIGN AID AND THAT'S A TRACTION OF 1%, WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SPEND RELATIVELY HIGH LEVELS, ACCUMULATING DEFICITS, ACCUMULATING DEBT.

AND WHEN I LOOK AT THE FEDERAL BUDGET NOW, 8% OF IT IS PAYING OFF OUR DEBT.

THAT'S FOUR TIMES WHAT WE SPEND ON TRANSPORTATION.

SO I DO THINK IT'S THE PEOPLE IN POWER.

BUT IT'S ALSO THEY'RE REFLECTING WHAT PEOPLE WANT AND PEOPLE HAVE UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS.

THEY WANT LOWER TAXES AND THE SAME OR MORE SERVICES AND UNTIL THAT CHANGES, WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GROW THE DEBT.

GROW THE DEBT FOR LEVELS THAT HAVE OTHER PROBLEMS OF WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO FUND.

>> I WOULD JUST JUMP IN AND SAY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ACTUALLY WANT HIGHER TAXES FOR WEALTHY TAXPAYERS.

SO IT'S NOT TRUE THAT ACROSS THE BOARD PEOPLE ARE ASKING FOR LOWER TAXES.

AND THIS IS WHY, YOU KNOW, REVENUE IS ANOTHER WAY.

INCREASING REVENUE IS ANOTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH THE DEBT, WHICH, OF COURSE, THE REPUBLICANS DON'T TALK ABOUT, RIGHT?

SO IF THEY WERE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS ISSUE, THEY WOULD HAVE ON THE TABLE THE TRUMP TAX CUTS WHICH HAVE COST THE ECONOMY BILLIONS AND THE GOVERNMENT BILLIONS AND SOMETIMES SOME ESTIMATE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN REVENUE.

>> SO MY FEAR IS THAT YOU ARE RIGHT, IT'S A NUMBER OF RIGHT WING FOLKS THAT ARE HOLDING THIS HOSTAGE, BUT TO GET OUT OF THIS DEAL, WE NEED FIVE OR SIX MODERATE REPUBLICANS TO CROSS OVER, AND I'VE SEEN NO SIGN YET SINCE McCARTHY WAS NAMED, THAT THERE ARE ANY REPUBLICANS THAT ARE WILLING TO DEAL WITH THE DEMOCRATS ON ANY ISSUE AND SO THAT COULD BECOME A PROBLEM.

>> MAYBE MITCH McCONNELL CAN CONVINCE A FEW WHEN PUSH COMES TO SHOVE.

>> YEAH, AND I THINK AS THEY START TO REALIZE THAT THERE REALLY IS NO AGREEMENT WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS, AND IF THIS GOES TO THE FLOOR, IT'S REALLY GOING TO EXPOSE HOW ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUSLY THEY HAVE CARRIED OUT WHEN IT COMES TO THE CONCERNS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

>> OKAY.

THE SOUTHERN BORDER IS GETTING CROWDED WITH POLITICIANS.

NEW YORK CITY MAYOR ERIC ADAMS IS THE LATEST TO VISIT •AFTER PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS THERE LAST WEEK.

ADAMS WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THE DIFFICULTY NEW YORK IS HAVING AS MIGRANTS ARE BUSSED THERE.

BIDEN WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT PLANS TO EXPAND THE “PAROLE ” PROGRAM-- 30,000 MIGRANTS A MONTH WILL BE ALLOWED TO ENTER THE U.S. FROM CUBA, HAITI, VENEZUELA AND NICARAGUA, IF THEY HAVE A SPONSOR.

IF THEY DON'T, THEY RISK BEING QUICKLY EXPELLED.

HOW DO YOU ASSESS THE PROPOSAL?

DUGS THIS HAVE ANY CHANCE OF ACTUALLY CHANGING THE DYNAMIC DOWN THERE?

>> I ASSESS THIS LIKE MOST OF THE BIDEN PRESIDENCY, MEH.

I THINK THE PRESIDENT DESERVES CREDIT FOR TRYING TO BE INNOVATIVE.

OBVIOUSLY THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM, IMMIGRATION AND BORDER CONTROL.

IT HAS BEEN FOR YEARS DUE TO CONGRESSIONAL INACTION.

I THINK PRESIDENT OBAMA DID VERY LITTLE AND MAINTAINED THE STATUS QUO.

I THINK BOTH PRESIDENTS TRUMP AND BIDEN HAVE BEEN INNOVATIVE.

TRUMP WAS INNOVATIVE IN A VERY IDEOLOGICAL WAY WHICH WAS AN INCREDIBLE WASTE OF MONEY AND I THINK BIDEN IS TRYING TO BE INNOVATIVE IN A MORE MODERATE WAY THAT NEITHER SIDE IS PARTICULARLY HAPPY ABOUT.

SO FOR PART WHAT HAVE HE IS TRYING TO DO IS CONTINUE SOME OF TRUMP'S POLICY AND QUICKLY DEPORT PEOPLE FOR SUPPOSED HEALTH REASONS SUPPORTED BY THE PANDEMIC IF THEY'RE NOT DOCUMENTED AND THAT MAKES THE LEFT UNHAPPY AND MAKING THE RIGHT UNHAPPY BY MAKING IT EASIER FOR FAIRLY LARGE NUMBERS OF UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE TO COME AND WORK IN THE U.S., PROVIDED THAT CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES ARE MET.

TO ME HE IS INNOVATIVE IN A MODERATE WAY.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT WILL WITH STAND LEGAL CHALLENGES BECAUSE IT IS A UNIQUE USE OF THE PRESIDENTIAL POWER BUT IF I WAS IN THE POSITION HE WAS, I UNDERSTAND WHY HE WOULD GO THAT ROUTE BECAUSE CONGRESS IS DOING NOTHING.

SO THE PEN AND THE PHONE TO QUOTE OBAMA.

NINA.

>>I THINK THAT WHAT IS EXTRAORDINARY HERE IS THAT BIDEN HAS PIVOTED TO USING THIS PAROLE PROCESS, WHICH HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR SOMETIME.

BUT ORDINARILY, IT IS USED ON AN INDIVIDUAL CASE BY CASE BASIS FOR THOSE WHO NEED TO COME TO THE U.S. TO TESTIFY IN COURT HEARINGS FOR SPECIFIC NATIONAL SECURITY-RELATED CONCERNS.

AND SO TO DO THIS IN ONE FELL SWOOP, INVOLVING 30,000 PEOPLE, MAKES ME CAUTIOUS OR WORRIED AS TO WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN DO THOSE CASE BY CASE REVIEWS AND CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS OF THE SUPREME COURT, WHEN THEY WERE LOOKING AT LIFTING OF TITLE 42, RAISED CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS FEASIBLE.

WHAT I WONDER IS WHY NOT JUST FIX THE PROBLEM?

WHY ALL OF THESE STOP GAP MEASURES, AND DO IT IN A WAY THAT WILL WITH STAND LEGAL SCRUTINY?

I SEE THIS AS JUST ANOTHER WAY OF KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

AND IN A WAY THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

I'LL JUST MAKE THIS FINAL COMMENT.

SO LET'S SAY YOU SET IT AT 30,000.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO, SEND OUT BULLETINS TO ALL OF THE COUNTRIES WHERE PEOPLE ARE COMING FROM AND SAY, OKAY, ONLY 30,000 AND THAT'S WHERE IT STOPS?

>> THE LAW HAD BEEN INSTITUTED ON VENEZUELANS AND THEY SAY IT HELD IT DOWN TO 24,000 AND REDUCED THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE COMING.

>> FOR VENEZUELANS BUT IN DECEMBER, OVER A QUARTER MILLION FOLKS CROSSED THE BORDER ILLEGALLY.

>> I THINK PICKING UP ON ONE OF THE THINGS NINA IS SAYING THAT WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE BIGGER PICTURE HERE AND HAVE BIGGER IDEAS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, PART OF THE PROBLEM IS ANTI-IMMIGRANT POLITICIANS HAVE REALLY HIJACKED THE DEBATE ABOUT IMMIGRATION IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND YOU KNOW, MOST AMERICANS IN PUBLIC OPINION POLLS ARE BROADLY PRO IMMIGRATION BUT THE PUBLIC CONVERSATION THESE DAYS SEEMS VERY NARROWLY FOCUSED ON THE BORDER AND ON SECURITY.

AND YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS AND POLITICIANS HAVE FALLEN PREY TO THIS AS WELL BECAUSE THEY THINK IF THEY FOCUS ON THE BORDER, THE REPUBLICANS WON'T USE IT AS A WEDGE ISSUE AGAINST THEM.

BUT THE RHETORIC IS REALLY DANGEROUS.

IT PAINTS PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING ASYLUM AND ENTRY INTO THIS COUNTRY AS THE PROBLEM, WHEN ACTUALLY THE IMMIGRATION PROCESS IS THE PROBLEM THAT WE REALLY NEED TO SOLVE.

AND, YOU KNOW, NEARLY ALL OF THE PATHWAYS INTO THIS COUNTRY ARE DYSFUNCTIONAL AND BACKLOGGED AND MOST PEOPLE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT LARGER ISSUE.

>> I AGREE TOTALLY WITH WHAT YOU SAY, SARAH.

MOST ECONOMISTS AGREE IMMIGRATION IS A PLUS FOR THE UNITED STATES BOTH AT THE HIGH END AND LOW END IN TERMS OF SKILLS.

BUT AS LUKE SAID, CONGRESS HAS NOT PROVIDED THE RESOURCES NECESSARY TO PROCESS, TO COORDINATE, AND SO WE HAVE A SYSTEM THAT IS DYSFUNCTIONAL.

AND WHAT IS OUR CAPACITY TO BRING PEOPLE INTO THE UNITED STATES AND TREAT THEM IN A HUMANE WAY?

AND FACT IS THAT WE HAVE NOT DONE A GOOD JOB OF PROVIDING THOSE RESOURCES.

>> I THINK WE CAN SAY SAFELY THAT THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM IS BROKEN AND HAS BEEN BROKEN FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS AT THIS POINT.

WE NEED TO GO TO As AND Fs.

NINA, YOUR F. >> MY THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILY OF BREXIALEE TORRES-ORTIZ KILLED THIS WEEK IN A DRIVEBY SHOOTING AS SHE WALKED HOME FROM THE CONVENIENT STORE NEAR HER HOME.

BREXI WAS CLASS PRESIDENT OF HER CLASS, AN HONOR STUDENT AND SHE LOVED TO DANCE.

AS WE ARE MINDFUL OF THE OF THE HOLE THAT THIS DEATH WILL LEAVE IN HER FAMILY, I PRAY THAT WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THE LIFE LONG EFFECTS THAT LOSING HER WILL HAVE ON FRIENDS, CLASSMATES AND THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY.

>> AND THAT WAS RIGHT HERE IN SYRACUSE.

BREXI WAS A RESIDENT HERE IN SYRACUSE.

>> AT BLODGETT MIDDLE SCHOOL.

>> SARAH, YOUR F. >> MY F THIS WEEK GOES TO GOVERNOR DeSANTIS AND THE STATE OF FLORIDA FOR NOT ALLOWING AN ADVANCED PLACEMENT COURSE ON AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIES TO BE OFFERED IN HIGH SCHOOLS.

IN THEIR STATEMENT EXPLAINING THEIR DECISION, THE FLORIDA EDUCATION DEPARTMENT SAID THE COURSE CONTENT WAS INEXPLICABLY CONTRARY TO FLORIDA LAW.

IN OTHER WORDS, THEY'RE ADMITTING THEY CAN'T EXPLAIN HOW OR WHY IT IS CONTRARY TO FLORIDA LAW.

AND THEY'RE UNABLE TO SPECIFY WHAT IN THE CURRICULUM WAS OBJECTIONABLE.

THESE ARE NOT THE PEOPLE I WOULD WANT DETERMINING WHAT MY CHILD CAN AND CANNOT LEARN.

>> LUKE.

>> MY F ALSO DEALS WITH STATE LAW.

MY F GOES TO THE STATE OF OHIO FOR LEGALLY DEFINING NATURAL GAS AS GREEN ENERGY.

THIS FOLLOWED A LONG LOBBYING CAMPAIGN BY THE NATURAL GAS INDUSTRY AS CHRONICLED THIS WOKE IN THE WASHINGTON POST.

>> TOXIC SLUDGE IS GOOD FOR YOU, RIGHT?

RICK, YOUR F. >> MY F GOES TO THE SUPREME COURT MARSHAL'S REPORT ON THE INVESTIGATION AS TO WHO LEAKED THE DRAFT OF THE OPINION OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE.

THE INVESTIGATION WAS UNABLE TO IDENTIFY WHO LEAKED IT DESPITE INTERVIEWS OF 97 EMPLOYEES.

WHAT IS NOT CLEAR, AND HAS NOT BEEN CLARIFIED IS WHETHER OR NOT THE JUSTICES, THEIR ELECTRONIC DEVICES AND THEIR SPOUSES WERE INCLUDED.

KNOWING THIS IS CRUCIAL, GIVEN THE SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS THAT JUDGE ALITO LEAKED THE HOBBY LOBBY DECISION IN 2014.

>> OUR As.

NINA, YOUR A.

>> A BUSINESSMAN BY RORY McCARDY WAS MOVED BY THE FACT THAT AN 82-YEAR-OLD NAVY VETERAN AND WIDOWER WAS STILL GRINDING EIGHT TO NINE-HOUR SHIFTS AT WAL-MART AT THE CASH REGISTER.

SO THE BUSINESS OWNER USED HIS SOCIAL MEDIA POWERS FOR GOOD CAUSE.

HE HELPED TO RAISE $108,000 FOR THE WORKER, WHO WAS ABLE TO GIVE HIS TWO WEEK NOTICE TO WAL-MART AND FINALLY RETIRE AT 82 YEARS OLD.

>> SARAH, YOUR A.

>> MY A THIS WEEK GOES TO A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION CALLED PARENTS AS TEACHERS.

BASED IN ST. LOUIS WHICH PROVIDES DOULAS TO BLACK LOW INCOME EXPECTANT MOTHERS, DOULAS PROVIDE NON-MEDICAL SUPPORT FOR MOTHERS TO BE AND THE CARE IS CITED AS ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE INTERVENTIONS IN EASING PREGNANCY AND IMPROVING OUTCOMES.

BLACK MOTHERS ARE UNDERSERVED BY OUR MEDICAL SYSTEM AND PROGRAMS LIKE THIS MIGHT HELP TO CLOSE THE GAP IN MATERNAL DEATH RATES BETWEEN WHITE AND BLACK WOMEN.

>> LUKE.

>> MY A TO THE ONEIDA INDIAN NATION CREATING 500 NEW JOBS THIS YEAR.

THEY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ANNUALLY FOR SOMETIME NOW FOR THE BENEFIT OF OUR LOCAL COMMUNITIES.

>> RICK.

>> AN A TO DAVID CROSBY, HE PASSED AWAY WEDNESDAY AT THE AGE OF 81.

HE LIVED A COLORFUL AND OFTEN TROUBLED LIFE BUT HE IS GOING TO BE BEST KNOWN FOR CONTRIBUTING TO THE BEAUTIFUL HARMONIES-OF-THE-BIRDS AND CROSBY, STILLS, NASH AND YOUNG.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

DAVID CROSBY WITH THAT TENOR THAT ONCE YOU HEAR IT, THE HARMONIES OF THE BIRDS, RIGHT?

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.