-Allentown, Bethlehem, Easton and sometimes Emmaus.

Welcome to the "Lehigh Valley with Love" Podcast.

-All right, all right, all right.

Welcome to the "Lehigh Valley with Love" Podcast.

I've told this story before.

My daughter does miss you.

She's 2 1/2.

She's almost 3.

She went to the bathroom in her diaper, and she's... -Okay.

-We try to tell her, explain, you know -- -I like that you associate that with me.

That's good.

No, that's good, makes me feel good.

-Like, we're like, "Everybody poops."

You know, it's normal for potty training, and so she starts going through people.

-Yeah.

-She's like, "Oh, Mommy poops.

Daddy poops.

Tyler poops?"

Then we're like, "Yes, he does."

-Yes, yes, well.

-So you made her... -I like to inspire in any way.

-It was good.

-It's good that I could... Your daughter finds inspiration from me.

-I'm glad you're feeling happy now -- -I am.

I do.

-...because you're not going to be in a few minutes.

-Why?

-Because our next -- Our guest today is Dr.

Katherine Ramsland from DeSales University.

-Right.

-And she's going to talk to us about ghosts and serial killers and all sorts of stuff.

-Oh, heart rate is dropping.

-Now Tyler is terrified -- -My heart rate is going up already.

-...of ghosts, but we want to say, "Welcome."

Thank you for coming on the podcast.

-I'm happy to be here.

I can't wait to scare you.

-Oh, please don't scare -- Be nice.

-Be kind.

-No.

-For people who don't know you.

Like, I've met you.

I used to do ghost tours at the Moravian Book Shop of all things, and the tour was based on a book that you coauthored or authored.

-Yeah, I basically wrote it, and Dana DeVito, who was the Moravian Book Shop supervisor at the time, contributed stories to it, and then between the two of us we put the whole thing together.

-And that's one of 65 books that you've written?

-So far.

-Wow, that's a lot of -- I haven't -- -Tyler hasn't read 65 books.

-Well, it takes a long time to read books.

-Your comic books don't count.

-Yeah, no, I haven't read 65 books.

-Well, what -- because I don't even know this, like, what is your background?

Where did you -- Did you grow up in the area or... -I did not.

I came here in 2001 actually because DeSales University Psychology Program was interested in a forensic track, and I had just graduated from or gotten a Master's at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice.

I was at the time teaching Philosophy at Rutgers University, and I decided to change my life completely and come here and manage this forensic track, and I have loved it ever since because I love teaching these course on serial killers.

-Oh, what -- -Oh, man.

-You've mentioned, what are some of the names of the courses you teach?

-One is called Dangerous Minds -- -Oh, man.

-...which is the psychology of abnormal behavior or, you know, serial killers essentially and mass murderers.

One is the psychology of death investigation, which is called Psychological Sleuthing, and the other is Introduction to Forensic Psychology.

-I feel like Psychological Sleuthing could be... That could trick me if I was signing up for courses.

-Tyler, you sound real crazy, man.

-Like, "Ah, this one looks -- This one looks easy.

I can figure this out," and then I get there, and I'm just like, "I got to go.

I got to leave.

I got to get out.

I'm crying in class right now."

-Well, so most of the people, like, taking your courses are, like, they're going to be detectives or things like that or psychologists?

-Well, criminal justice, so it could be a lot of different things in the psychology students, but also I get Theater majors and some from the forensic science tracks because they're interested in the science aspect of death investigation.

I work a lot with the Northampton County coroner, so I get, you know, stories from that.

Sometimes he comes in and teaches a class, so that's good for the forensic science.

-Is that Lysek?

-Zach Lysek, yeah.

-Because the one in Lehigh County is Scott Grim.

-Not anymore.

-He's gone?

-Yeah, he retired in February, and there's a new one now.

-But his name was Grim.

-Yeah, you've got to be coroner.

That's perfect.

-I know, right.

-He's like, "You know what?

There's nothing else, like, I got to do something."

-Yeah, yeah, that's a perfect name for... -It was very weird, and one of the reasons that I -- because I think this stuff is fascinating, and we were talking about it kind of off-air.

Like, I watch -- Because you've been on -- What are some of the shows?

You've been on like, I don't want to name them, like "48 Hours" and "20/20" and those... -Well, yeah, pretty much all the nighttime ones.

I was just on "20/20."

I've been on "Dr.

Oz."

I've been on several "48 Hours," "Forensic Files," a lot of Investigation Discovery or Oxygen shows.

Pretty much any networks doing true crime, I've probably done a show or two.

One time -- You ever watch ID Discovery?

It's like all murder shows all day, and I lost the -- -I don't love murder.

-I lost the remote -- -It scares me.

-...to my -- I lost the remote to the TV.

I'm like, "Okay, this is the only channel I watch."

BTK, which is Dennis Rader, was a serial killer, and you wrote a book, and it's currently -- It's still out obviously.

Buy it.

-Yeah, and it's different from the other books because this is more or less by him.

It's his autobiography.

-How did you... Like, do you just call the prison, and you're like, "I want to talk to Dennis Rader."

-Hey, yeah, can I get a moment with... -How does that whole process go?

-No, actually how I came aboard is very weird.

There when he first got arrested -- and Dennis Rader killed 10 people in Wichita starting in 1974 and ended in 1991, and he got away with it for 30 years because he was an ordinary person who had a family.

He was president of his church congregation.

Everybody thought he was a great guy.

-Regular guy in Nazareth.

-A regular guy, but, you know, then he made a mistake and got caught, and when he got arrested in 2005 there was a woman who wanted to write his book, and so she befriended him, and she wrote letters to him for five years to collect information, and then she didn't -- She showed up on Facebook, but the book hadn't come out.

I knew who she was, so I said, "Whatever happened to your BTK book?"

And she knew who I was because she was using one of my books as her model, and then she said, "Would you please take it over?

I don't want to finish this.

I don't really want to."

-Why?

-Well, that's sort of her story.

-Okay.

-But then it wasn't just -- -Did it have anything to do with that he was the BTK Killer?

-Well, she wanted to do that.

She wanted to do that, and so... But it wasn't just a matter of me saying, "Okay, I'll take it over."

The victim's family members, surviving family members, had to approve me because other people -- -And they get the money from the book, right?

-They get the money from the book, but other people had approached them, and they had turned them down.

So I had -- My idea was to guide his autobiography in a way that would then yield information for criminal justice psychology and law enforcement so that it wouldn't just be him blabbering on about himself but would be something that would be very useful, and so they thought, "Okay, if there must be a book, "we know it's inevitable.

Then that is the kind of book we would want to have out there."

-Yeah, so... -So was the communication like you were writing letters or... -So then she sort of facilitated me meeting him because he was going to be transferred from her to me, and he had to say, "Okay."

So the first thing he did was ask me to solve a code -- -What?

-...because he wanted to communicate in code and also was -- -You had to audition to the BTK Killer?

-I had to audition.

I definitely had to audition, yes, but I was up for it, and we also started playing chess because he wanted, you know, to see what I would do with that, but the code was interesting because he -- It was very convoluted and weird.

I did figure it out, but I thought, "This is so not going to work for the book."

So I created a code for us to use, and he liked it because I created it off of the things I knew he would enjoy.

Like, for him the number three was very magical, so I used all kinds of three things in this.

-So you're like -- You're messing with the -- Ah, this is crazy.

-So you're going -- You're basically mental warfare with the BTK Killer?

-Yep.

-Like, how do you prepare?

Like, today for work I will go play a mind game with the BTK Killer.

-Like, what are you doing today?

Oh, I don't know, crafting a code for the BTK Killer.

-Ah, I'm going to get some coffee.

I'm going to stop at Wawa, and then later I'll talk to the BTK Killer.

-It is -- Yeah, it's just very -- -Well, we did talk every week on the phone.

-Oh, you talked to him on the phone?

-On the phone all the time.

-Oh, my god.

-So he wrote long, long, long letters in chicken scratch, which was hard.

We talked on the phone, and part of our code was not just the code from the letters, but we watched TV shows, and the TV shows provided metaphors for us to talk through.

He got me to watch "Bates Motel," which I thought was a fabulous show.

-What is he doing?

-What a cosign?

-What a cosign?

-What?

Does have have Netflix in prison?

-No, it's cable.

It's not Netflix.

-Oh, same thing.

-Do they have Netflix in prison, George?

-Well, the thing is I did go to the prison to talk with him, but that was the least productive place because the guards were listening in, so there really wasn't much -- -Well, how close were you -- Okay.

Were you -- Was he behind a thing?

-He's behind a thing, and you have to talk on the phone, and, you know, you don't get to be that close to him.

-Was he -- -But I would not have been afraid had I been.

-Really?

-Yeah.

-It wouldn't have -- -He was very respectful actually to me.

-What if it was, like, in a park?

-I still wouldn't have been afraid.

-You're afraid now.

-I'm afraid talking to the person that talked to the BTK Killer.

I'm afraid right now.

-Have you worked -- Have you -- Are there any other high profile, like, pieces or... -I've communicated with other serial killers if that's what you mean but not for that purpose.

-Have you connected, like, more so or less with one serial killer than the other?

-Are you asking, like, who's your best friend serial killer?

-No, no, I would never ask that, but yes, that's kind of... That's... -I actually had already been writing to a serial killer from my hometown who didn't like the fact that I was going to write Rader's book.

-Can you say who it is?

-No, I can't because he asked me not to.

-Jealous.

-He's a jealous.

-He was like, "I heard you're making codes with BTK.

I'm out."

-I do not like how you're talking to another killer.

-That's right.

-Who would have thought a serial killer had a jealous -- -He's like, "I don't believe you're talking to BTK.

I'm the coolest."

Ah, that's just... Like, I actually have goosebumps, like, thinking about some of that.

-I had an exchange with Ed Kemper, who's famously of the "Mindhunter" -- -Isn't he like 20 feet tall, too?

-He's very tall.

He's huge.

But he had... That was weird, too.

I wrote Dean Koontz's biography, and in that Dean Koontz used him as a model for a psychopathic killer for one of his books.

My biography of him ended up being translated for the blind, and Ed Kemper was the guy doing that work, and he read this.

-What?

-He read this description of him that he didn't like in Koontz' book, so he came after me.

-You probably don't know.

I know this again just because it's weird because I enjoy this stuff.

I've read some books, too, but Ed Kemper, like, killed his mom and, like, put her on a dartboard.

-No, no, no, no, no, killed his father and grand -- Well, the mom was the last.

-Yeah.

-He killed his grandfather and grandmother when he was 15.

Went to prison and learned all kinds of cool stuff.

When he got out at 21, he started picking up young women who were hitchhiking in Santa Cruz -- -He was, like, cutting their heads off and stuff.

Cutting their heads off, eating parts of them, and then finally killed his mother, tore out her larynx because he was tired of her, you know, snarking at him.

-Then he put it in the garbage disposal.

-He put it in the garbage disposal.

It came back, and then he killed a friend of hers, and then he went on the run but then ultimately turned himself in, but he's about 6-foot-9, I believe, huge.

-So this was a man that you figured, "Let me start a correspondence with this guy."

-No, he started one with me.

-No, remember he was -- The serial killer was translating a book that she wrote into braille.

-You know what this makes?

-And he was -- -This makes every girl I've tried to pick up at a bar that's ghosted me and never answered me back, I feel way worse now.

If this guy can get an answer, a serial killer... -Well, he... -And I just can't get one one text back.

-Tyler can't get a date.

-No, no, no, here is how he got the answer.

-He sent -- -What was his pickup line?

-No, no, he sent one of his prison groupies who was a female wrestler to confront me over this.

-What?

He's sending people after -- Like, that's when it gets to be... Because there are people -- -No, but the best thing is she wanted to be a writer, so then she was friends with me.

-So are you still friends with her?

-No, because -- -All right.

-Because she's crazy.

-Well, they had... -No, but it was just an odd way of meeting him, and then he kept saying the stuff that I said in the book about him was not true, and I said, "You said that stuff on tape."

Well, I didn't mean it.

-Well, what do I do?

-I said, "Well, how am I supposed to know that?"

-You said, "What do you want me to do, Ed?"

-That brings up an interesting point, though.

Like, so you're -- You meet with these people.

How do you -- Credibility has to be somewhat of a thing that you have to sift through 'cause you're talking to somebody that's crazy.

-Of course.

-So how do you -- -But they're not crazy.

-They're not crazy, right, okay.

-But you are talking to people who like to play games and manipulate and lie, sure.

-And how do you sift through it?

Well, if you have something on videotape that he said, I'm pretty sure he said that.

-Right.

-This is not the days of digital where you can manipulate all kinds of stuff.

He said it.

-What I mean is if -- What if he, like -- So I'm sure they lie, right?

-Sure.

-They make up other -- How do you find out what's true and what they're just... -You don't necessarily find out.

It's kind of complicated, but there are layers of what they show you that undercut some of the things they say, but the advantage I had with Rader was I had the police interrogation on tape, also the transcripts, also the correspondence with the other woman -- -Right, like, you did your homework.

-...also my correspondence, you know, so I had many different perspectives on him so that when he might say something to me I could say, "Well, you told this police this.

Which one is true?"

-I don't know if you can answer this because I don't know if there's an answer to it, but what's the difference between, like, Dennis Rader and Tyler?

Like, what's -- -Whoa.

Can you not answer this?

-Well, I mean like a guy who doesn't kill people -- -Can I get a lawyer present before this gets answered?

-Why, like... -It's getting hot in here, George.

-Like, does he have a disease?

Not you, but, like, why does that guy go out and kill 10 people?

-I don't know Tyler well enough to know that.

-Well, assume that he's just a regular guy, doesn't kill people.

-Well, that's what they say.

-I'm not a serial killer, but I am a stand-up comedian.

-That's what they said about BTK.

He seemed like a regular guy.

Bundy seemed like a regular guy.

-Yeah.

-Israel Keyes, everybody loved him.

So it's not -- You can't just have me sit next to someone and assume he's not a serial killer.

-Yeah, you could be a serial killer.

-All right.

-I mean, I want to look back on this and say, "I knew it."

-Yeah, you know, extreme crime is very popular, but what is the benefit of, you know, teaching these things to actual students?

-They're understanding what I call the developmental trajectory of various different cases, and they're learning to not stereotype, to not over-simplify these cases, that we're trying to take, you know, an adult murderer back to his or her childhood to try to figure out where did things go wrong, and the more we can do that, the more we might be able to develop programs that could intervene on that.

-George is a fan of true crime.

That doesn't necessarily mean he would be a good detective.

-But there's a great amateur network of people who work very hard at trying to match Jane Does and John Does to homicide victims.

-You ever go on, like, Reddit or anything like that?

They have, like, forums.

-They're all over the place.

-Yeah.

-There's a great book called "Skeleton Crew," which is about all these various networks, and some of them, yes, get in the way.

They're well-meaning, but they are amateurs, but there certainly are amateurs who have helped solve cases and identify victims and rejoin the remains with families looking for them, and so, you know, more power to them, and so I would say people who are very involved in true crime could have the makings of somebody who would have that kind of dedication.

And you have to approach it with knowledge, so people watching these shows have some knowledge.

The only thing I would say about the show is it tends to support more superficial formulaic approaches to crime, and that's really not helpful to anybody.

-Yeah.

So I want to make sure -- Let's lighten the mood a little bit because it got a little scary there.

-Please do.

I think that was fun.

I feel like I just worked out.

-There's something else that you write about.

Yeah, see.

Tyler is getting into it now.

You also have written at least, I mean, at least one book about Lehigh Valley ghosts, right?

-Yes, well, I wrote a book about Lehigh Valley murders and a book about Bethlehem ghosts, which was covered the Lehigh Valley, so the two of those go together.

The ghost tours that go out of the Moravian Book Shop are based on the Bethlehem ghosts book.

-I used to give some of those back in the day.

-Yeah.

-So it's almost like the perfect business model.

You right about the murders and the victim.

-It actually went the other way.

I did the ghost book, and then I said, "You know, there's a lot of murders in the Lehigh Valley that are worth writing about."

-Well, people -- If you don't like, you know, serial killers and murder and all that, totally understandable, but I think there's a lot of people who are into ghosts -- -Oh, ghosts are fun.

-...because it's kind of fun.

-Well, you know what's interesting about Bethlehem though is because of the Moravian influence, you have unusual ghost stories.

-And why is that?

-Because they have a different take on life, and so the Moravians used to have this kind of procession between Nazareth and Bethlehem if you can imagine.

That's a pretty long ways to walk where they would sing the whole way on certain holidays.

-You ever do that?

-I haven't done that.

-Tyler is from Nazareth.

-And then when they stopped, you could still hear the voices during those days.

-Huh.

-So for the record, Tyler is terrified of ghosts.

Tell the -- We were talking about your -- What do you do when you go to a hotel anywhere?

-I am scared of ghosts a lot, and when I go on the road to different hotels, I look up if the hotel is haunted, and if it is -- -Why do you -- Why not do that?

Like, why just... -Because I just then assume it is haunted.

-But then why go to the hotel?

-Because I don't control -- Believe it or not, they pick where I get to stay.

-And the places Tyler is staying at, they're definitely haunted.

-Sometimes I don't even get a hotel, and then I'm like, "Well, my car is not haunted, so I guess that's fine."

-You know, the best thing to do when you're in a situation like that is name the ghost.

A friend of mine bought this old miner's hotel near Johnstown in the Altoona area.

He bought it on eBay sight unseen, and then he went to live in it, and he had a number of things happen, and he started freaking out and telling me, "What should I do?"

And I said, "Put names to them and talk to them," and it actually -- Whether it did anything to them or not, I don't know, but it helped him feel as if they were people who just wanted some attention.

-He bought a hotel on eBay?

-Sight unseen for $10,000.

-That's actually how every horror movie starts so... -What are either your favorite or some really interesting ghost stories from Bethlehem that maybe somebody doesn't know about?

-Or if, like, you were scared and you wanted to avoid them, either way, however you want to word it.

-Right, I go looking for them, but that's another story.

One of my favorites is the one in Hellertown.

It's der Ausleger.

He was a sort of undertaker who ran around the back roads of Hellertown with a horse and, you know, undertaker wagon, and he would be always looking for when somebody -- This is before people had their wakes and stuff in churches.

They had them in the homes, so he would go around looking for funeral feasts and people having wakes in their homes because what he knew was when they washed on the bodies to prepare it for burial they would toss the death water out into the yard.

He liked to go get on his hands and knees and slurp it up.

-What?

-That's... -Unusual.

-You know, I thought Jameson was death water, but I am wrong.

-I did not -- I have never -- That's -- So what does the ghost do?

Does he come to your house and just drink your water?

-No, he does, and he comes to your funeral dinner, and he eats the food.

-What a guest, huh?

What a... -That is the worst ghost ever.

He just comes in and steals your stuff.

-I like it.

I think that's a good story.

-That's really unique.

I had never -- -One glass of death water.

-He drinks the death water.

-I think I need some living water to just make me feel a little, whoo.

-Because, I mean, obviously if you go to Europe, you know, they laugh at us because it's, like, "Oh, your oldest things from the 1700s, big deal, you know."

-Yeah.

-Right.

-But the fact that, you know, Bethlehem is so old, 1740 whatever.

Is that why you think there's so many ghosts in that town?

I mean, you said Easton or... -Well, it's not really about what's older.

You can have ghosts in very modern places.

It has more to do with the earth that it's on.

Like, Gettysburg is a great place if -- That's one of the most haunted places ever, and that has a lot to do with the makeup of the soil.

The granite is a good conductor of energy, supposedly.

-I stayed overnight at a bed and breakfast once on it's called, like, the Double Apple or something.

It's a bed and breakfast on the battlefield.

-Doubleday.

-Doubleday.

The only thing I didn't like about that bed and breakfast is that they didn't have a TV.

I sleep with a TV on most of the time.

I just need some sort of sound, so it's really weird to be in complete silence in a bed and breakfast on the battlefield.

Like, if you fell out the window, you're on the battlefield.

-Do you know how much death water I would have to drink for you to get me on that thing?

I'd have to have a bucket of death water, feeling really... -How could they not -- How can the -- There's a bar in Hellertown who's got to make -- What is he?

The der Auslander?

-Der Ausleger.

-The death water shot.

-The death water shot.

That story, like, I can't even continue.

-I told you it's a good story.

-He slurps up the death water.

-So they finally started taking it to the cemeteries to dump because they don't like him -- -There's this guy wandering around drinking -- -Because his fridge was full of death water.

Oh, my god.

I won't sleep for a week until the next episode tapes.

What's the most haunted city that we have?

-In the country or in the Lehigh Valley?

-In the Lehigh Valley, yeah.

-It's a toss-up between mainstream Bethlehem and Easton has a lot of stories, a lot of stories, and they're in the book as well.

I mean, they were amazing.

-My favorite one is Moravian on south campus there's a story like if you stand at the top of the steps and you say you're for the British Army or whatever, then you'll get a push on the back, and you'll, like, fall down the steps.

That was something that was told to me when I was there.

-No one pushed me.

-I have this story.

-Well, you said because we're -- You said, too.

It gets interesting because you're very interested in the ghosts and stuff, but you haven't ever experienced one, but you want to.

-Well, I've had -- I've gotten voices on tape in haunted places, but I have not been pushed down the steps as I requested or pinched or hit or any of those things that other people get to have.

-Yeah, lucky them, right?

-Tyler, have you ever met a ghost?

-No, I don't think I've had a ghost.

-Where does this come, like, why are you so scared of ghosts?

-I don't know.

I think because they're dead maybe, George.

-They're slurping up the death water.

-Yeah, I don't know why I would be scared of the person that's slurping up death water.

That's crazy to me.

-Well, that guy is, like, on a whole other level.

-He is.

-I think what I've -- I figured it out.

It's the unknown maybe, and I don't know how I would handle... -Well, it's not just the unknown.

They might suck you into it.

-Right.

-And you could bring them home.

-I was with -- I was at this -- doing this show this weekend with this -- The headliner was a -- She was a ghost hunter, and she was telling me these stories and stories and stories, and they just kept making me more scared on how likely things would be, and so I was living by my -- Well, my roommate had moved back home, but we were living in the apartment, and I used to hear noises in his bedroom, and I would always think we were either being robbed or haunted, and I could never figure out which one I wanted it to be.

-I'd probably go with the haunting.

-I'd go haunting.

-You'd rather be haunted?

-I don't want to deal with a human being.

Like, those people are -- They're unpredictable.

-I know how to handle that fear.

You can run.

You can hide.

You can play dead.

-That's a good point.

A ghost knows, like, when you're sleeping.

-Yeah, you can't play dead with a ghost.

-Man.

-But who's going to drink your death water?

-I didn't even know we had death water.

-In telling that story, is that in one of your books?

-Yeah.

Yeah, in fact the cover shot is him.

-Is it?

-Yeah.

-I'm going to go read that.

-And he's just, like, wiping death water off his chin.

-He's like, "Guys, I'm good.

I'm not even thirsty anymore."

-Yeah, but he's like, "Ah."

-I had my fill of death water today.

It's too many.

I'm done.

I've had my -- -Put yourself in my shoes, George.

-...my glass of death water.

-I didn't know that there was death water before today, and I now I found out that there's death water and that there's people drinking it.

-It's like three miles from here.

-You got to put yourself -- I'm having a rough episode.

-That is officially my new favorite ghost story of all time.

-This is a rough episode for me.

-I don't know that he qualifies as a person particularly.

I did write a book called "Haunted Crime Scenes" as well as a book called "Paranormal Forensics" because we put the forensics stuff that I do together with paranormal investigations, and those two books together take the subject seriously but also do, you know, with skepticism and show, you know, you have to not have wish fulfillment, for example.

You have to check things.

You have to question things.

You have to be very careful in how you set things up so that you're not just, you know, doing like what they do on TV shows.

So I think those two books would be fun for someone who likes both true crime and ghosts because that puts both of them together, and I'm actually writing a novel series based on that idea.

-All right, and people can also kind of see you when you pop up on TV, whether it's in "Forensic Files" or whatever.

It's always funny because we'll be watching -- -Or this show.

-Yeah, or this show.

-Or this show.

-...because we'll be watching a show, and I'll, like, I'll turn to my wife.

I'm like, "I know her.

I've met her."

She's like, "Ah, why are you watching these crazy murder shows?"

-What would you do if the worlds collided, where you found a ghost that was killed by a serial killer that you wrote about?

-If a ghost would stick around near me, I would be very happy about that.

-She'd be happy.

-I'm told I actually have the ghosts of murder victims around me because they believe I can hear them, and they're trying to tell me their story.

-So, like, they follow you?

-So, like, right here, right now.

-They're in here.

-This is a small room.

-Right, yeah.

They can fit.

-Who told you this?

-Several people -- -Oh, no.

-...who didn't know each other.

-All right.

-Anyway, on that note, I have to go drink some death water.

-Thank you so much to Dr.

Katherine Ramsland for coming on.

-I'm sweating.

-That was a ton of fun, and I'm slightly terrified now.

-Yeah, I'm not going to sleep, but that'll be more time for me to read your books because I won't sleep again for the rest of my life.

-Oh, that's a good time to read.

-All right.

-Mouth is a little dry, George.

-You need some death water.

-Thank you for watching the "Lehigh Valley with Love" Podcast filmed at the PPL Public Media Center at PBS39.