All right, Denitia, I'm gonna send you something on your phone.

You're about to send me something from a million -years ago, aren't you?

I -can't wait.

Who's that?

Myra -Flynn, Adeswua, which was -!an alias project I was doing at -the time.

Yeah, and our -girl, Janell Kroll, at -Rockwood Music Hall in New -York City, 2016 Wow.

-But then we were on a real -roll, because look at this.

-Wait what this is, all the -way across the country in -LA, -oh, my God, did we play -together at in LA, yeah, at -the hotel Cafe the same -summer.

-Denisha ODE G, aka Odessa, -aka Denisha and scene, aka -these days, just Denisha is -one of those folks I've -literally run into on -stages, as mentioned here, -in big cities like LA and -New York, but also in the -corners of smaller spaces -like my home state, Vermont.

-We've been paired with each -other at open mic nights, -songwriter circles, artist -showcases and the like, all -in venues that are typically -dubbed listening rooms meant -for lyric heads who want to -hear folks in our genre, -which is to say, genreless -is kind of our genre.

We've -been dubbed everything from -neo soul to indie rock to -indie folk.

Soul, in -general, people have not -always known what to do with -these two black girls who -sang shoulder to shoulder -with hundreds of white dudes -who'd played guitar and -waxed Elliot Smith and Ryan -Adams in flannel shirts, but -they knew they liked us -because Dinesh and I always -had A good story to tell.

-Music was just the vehicle.

-Anymore.

So to me, Denisha -isn't as much a homie, -though she is lovely as she -is a colleague.

We're part -of this small circle of -artists in the US who dare -to tour for 300 days out of -the year with our -instruments on our backs or -in our beat up cars to play -to a small room in rural -wherever, and sling our stories.

Some of the threads that you -and I have is that we were -like, being ourselves, and -people were like, wow.

Like, -it's so different.

And it's -like, oh, like, I was just -like, doing what I do.

I was -just being me, you know, -right?

But to certain -listeners, it felt like, -wow, like you really, like -radical our expectations?

-Now I can count on two hands -how many times I've been -asked what kind of R, B Do -you sing?

Sometimes, to mess -with folks, I would answer -was something like, I'm -actually a country singer, -and then watch their faces -kind of crumple with -confusion, a Black Country -singer when I was coming up.

-Besides, I don't know, -Hootie and the Blowfish -maybe wasn't really a thing, -but man, oh man, has that -changed?

Now we have dance -floor.

Oh, my shabu.

-Kane Brown, -Beyonce and Denisha.

[music] -Say, these days, Denisha has -chosen a genre, and she's -hitting the country music -scene full force, which I -thought might just be -another experiment for her -or a project, but little did -I know, in all our days of -city hopping, this isn't -that much of a switch for -Denisha at all.

She's -originally from Texas, -Baytown, Texas, which is a -very specific working class -place off of I 10, right -outside of Houston.

Growing -up listening to 80s and 90s -country, there was something -about the way these songs -and stories were delivered -to me that cut through to -me, and it really stuck with -me.

My dream is to be a part -of the fabric of the country -music canon at large.

Like, -what's it look look like for -me to write and sing country -music from my lens, because -I have such an appreciation -for the country music -tradition and its history -and the people that it comes -from.

It.

And how it is -representative of America in -a way that reminds me how -beautiful it is to be black -American.

-Black Music is American -music, -right?

So, and that's what -it is I -from Vermont public this is -home goings, a show that -invites you to eavesdrop on -candid conversations with -people who will challenge -what you think.

You know, -I'm Myra Flynn today on the -show a conversation with -Denisha odaji about what it -takes to remain -authentically herself in a -genre of music that is just -beginning to more visibly -embrace a wide array of -identities, marking a -notable shift in the genre's -cultural landscape.

This is -home goings.

We're a proud -member of the NPR Network.

-Welcome home.

-So black folks in country -music have really been -popping off right now, -right?

And I'm, I'm thinking -about Beyonce in particular, -and when she did cowboy -Carter, she received quite a -bit of backlash for being -whitewashed.

A lot of -people, a lot of folks who -look like us, were going, -going on the internet and -talking about how she was -not being herself, how she -was, you know, had all of a -sudden slipped into this -white genre, and then she -was like, Hello, I'm from -Houston, Texas.

Like, did -you all forget that I'm from -Houston?

Where do you think -this came from?

The idea -that country music only -belongs to white people, and -that it's like, somehow very -radical, that we somehow now -have slipped in as black -Americans to the more -popular charting billboard -charting genre of country music?

-Well, no for sure, and I -think it has some extremely -tangible ties to the history -of the music industry.

-Country music came out of -this crossroads of blues -music, Appalachian music, -and a little taste of the -rock and roll that black -folks were crafting at the -time as well.

Black folks -were making this music.

It -sounded country, what we -would consider country at -the time, but the people -that were in charge of the -music industry at the time -who were white and had these -record labels decided that -they needed to brand all -black music as race records.

-So those got put into a -different category.

Didn't -matter what you sounded like -you were black, and so you -were making race records, -which later kind of spawned -what is now known as R and -B, and then the white folks -who were making that exact -same sound were called -hillbilly music, and that -turned into what we consider -Country music to be today.

-So I think that -historically, it's -surprising to people to hear -black artists making country -sounds because we were -categorized out of it in the -industry at the beginnings -of country music as a -commercial genre.

Wow.

-So it's all part of the -plan.

It's all been part of the plan to kind of remove us.

-Yeah, part of the plan to -control who was consuming -what kind of music, and who -could benefit the most from -a sound that audiences -really resonated with right?

-I mean, in listening to -Rihanna getting speak about -the banjo, you know, she was -like saying, This was -invented in Africa, and it's -been on front porches in the -south forever, and yet -somehow it is so radical to -begin playing the banjo, for -her to be playing the banjo, -right?

It's just so -interesting to learn, like, -what once was ours and what -no longer is.

And then -returning back to that, I -wonder what else is in our -history that we could all -make a grand movement toward -returning back to and be -super interested in that.

-Like, let me find out that -we, we were the first people -to start country clubs and -golfing, and then all of a -sudden, all of us begin -golfing again, right?

-For sure, and my vibe is -like, I really choose -energetically, not to focus -on what could be holding me -back, because if I did that, -then I would just have to do -something else.

I would have -to make something else my -career.

I really focus on -how the music is connecting -with people, and I'm focused -on getting better at what I -do, and growing and evolving -and all the things that make -me continually fall in love -with.

Music, and that's the -kind of like energy that I'm -constantly focused on, while -I also know what our history -is in this genre, I'm really -just interested in -connecting with my audience -and having people feel seen -and heard from stories that -are in my songs, and if they -have never felt the way that -I'm singing about maybe it -creates some empathy, but -it's really just about -connection -to me.

I've wandered off -from here to Houston, -looking for a place, right?

-City.

-What is something Denisha -that people assume about -you, either about you or you -and your music combined?

-Something that I always find -funny and interesting is -that I do speak in a lower -register, and so when I -start to sing, which is, you -know, up in the soprano -register, it's all just very -light and lilting that, in -and of itself, takes people -aback, in a way that I think -is representative of a lot -of the expectations that -might be placed upon me, -without even hearing me -speak.

I think even just on -site, it's really funny to -me to hear fans that, you -know, people that become -fans and listeners that are -like, Wow.

I really thought -your voice was gonna be, -like, super, like, low and -AC and and, you know, I grew -up in, in Texas, you know, -which is real flat, but I've -been likened to, you know, a -mountain voice, very high, -very lilting, very like, you -know, taking a little bit -from the Appalachian -traditions.

So I think -that's one thing that people -are surprised by.

And I -think that that sort of is -metaphorical for a lot of -expectations that are heaped -upon this book by judging by -its cover.

Yes.

-I mean yes, because you you -have a low voice when you -speak, but also you present, -kind of like, I don't know -whatever the association is -with the with the femme, -like, like, soprano voice, -you don't present as that -either.

So, yeah, do you -think some of it's just like -some coded judgment?

Hello.

-Well, yeah, I think -it's, I think, especially -for folks who haven't been -exposed to a lot of people -that express their gender in -different ways.

It's they -don't know what to do with -me, like, how to categorize -me in their brain before -they hear what I have to -offer, which I kind of take -pride in being someone who -shows up in, you know, these -different towns and these -different communities that I -tour in and like, can be an -example of like, Hey, this -is what it looks like for me -to be authentic to myself.

What does it look like for you?

And that might be just coloring outside of the lines.

-I was signed to my first -record label when I was 16, -and they just automatically -put me in the RMB category.

-They were like, you're going -to be it was like Ashanti at -the time Beyonce was just on -the scene.

They were like, -light skinned black woman.

-You go over here, this is -what you will be.

And I -remember them being really -disappointed in my voice, -because, you know, my father -is Irish, my mother is -black.

I had like, this kind -of unique sound that didn't -sound like the R, B they -wanted.

But then I remember -people like Adele coming -out, and Alicia Keys coming -out, and some people with -some really radical voices.

-And so just like then, so it -is now with black folks in -country music, where I -wonder, like, do you think -that the industry is getting -more accepting of people's -unique identities and how -that shows up in our art.

Or -do you think that there's still a lot of work to do -there?

It's to are they -still trying to stuff us -into some of those same old -boxes?

-I think the industry looks -different depending on what -region you're in of -literally, the world.

But I -think compared to 20 years -ago, the sort of -relationships that I was -trying to foster in the -industry were seemed far -more closed minded than they -do now I feel like I've been -fortunate enough to -experience firsthand much -more support from the -industry, which I think -coincides with me just -Having a more a clearer -mission as an artist, and -like clear songs and getting -better at my craft.

But I do -think that a lot of folks in -the industry at large, -right, major indie, you -know, management, label, -publicist, I think -definitely people are.

-Seeing the fans hungry for -things that aren't just the -status quo, and they're -seeing the value of giving -opportunities and getting -into business with it's really not about giving opportunities but it's like -getting into business with -artists who make distinct -music and have distinct -identities from what we -would consider the status -quo, -yeah, have a point of view.

-Artists who have a point of -view like, yeah, it's a -beautiful thing.

And I love -that you're getting clear on -your mission.

I feel like -that's lifelong work as -well.

-You got to write a book.

-Have you written a book yet?

-Myra, oh, this is my book, -because -I've gone the same way.

-Yeah.

No, that's beautiful.

-I do feel like, just because -the industry has changed so -much in the last 20 years -that I've been kind of -kicking around, and also my -perspective has really -shifted.

It's really just -been when I started to focus -on, okay, well, what do I -want to say?

Let's not think -about who's out there.

Okay, -I love music.

I have a -passion for making songs and -making good work.

What do I -want to say?

And how do I -want to say, and it's then -that I started to really -like feed myself, instead of -waiting for other people To -feed me.

-That's great.

Yes, Denisha -for President, you.

-Morning, I just played -myself, thinking I tried it you're not in Brooklyn anymore, right?

You're you're living.

You moved.

Where are you living now?

-I'm in Nashville, Tennessee, -so, back to the south.

Back -to the south.

Yeah, okay.

-Life is a winding road, you -know?

-Yeah, I do have questions -about the South.

-And let's go, yeah.

I mean, -I -mean a black queer music -making a queer woman making -country music in the south, -even in 2025 I don't know, I've had a couple experiences in the South -that have been amazing.

And -I've had some experiences in the south where wow.

There's -real segregation here, still -in some areas, although -Nashville always feels like -this bubble of like, is it -the South?

Because it's, -it's just feels like, like, -so I don't know, like, -Austin is one of those cities as well where you're just like, Oh, everybody is -like, very much welcome -here.

But outside of that -bubble, you know, it can -sometimes still be -discriminatory.

And I guess -I'm just wondering, like, Do -you worry about that?

Have -you felt any of that?

Or are you just hitting these streets like I don't care.

-I'm from Texas.

I know how -to play this game, and I don't know.

-How's it feeling?

Oh man, -yes.

I moved from New York -back here to Nashville, -because I've lived here -before.

I moved here about -three years ago, and I -really felt the pull to the -artist community here, and -that's in large part due to -the black Opry, which is a -collective of black artists -in country, Americana, -bluegrass, blues.

I toured -with the black Opry when I -still lived in upstate New -York, and I was like, wow, -this is an unbelievable -community, and I knew that -there was some presence here -in Nashville with black Opry -artists.

Now that I'm -shifting back into the -country music that I grew up -on, it makes some sense to -move to Nashville and see -what we can come up with.

-So the capital of the world, -capital, capital of the -world.

-Yeah, yes, exactly.

So I -prepared myself a little bit -for, like, Okay, I've been -in New York at that time for -12 years.

So it's like, as a -black person from.

Texas New -York can feel a little -relieving to live in New -York City and to be sort of -out of the because I'm not -going to say New York's not -segregated, because that's a -whole other issue, but to -kind of like be out of the -immediate face of a specific -type of discrimination.

I -moved to New York, and I -felt really free in a lot of -ways.

And so, you know, in -this conversation with -myself, Okay, I'm gonna move -back down south, like it's -gonna be a little different.

-And I think the thing that -has really saved me, and my -most important bomb, is just -holding on to my community, -holding on to my friendships -and my relationships that -are here that feel safe and -communal and like real deep -connection.

Nashville has -come a really long way since -the first time I lived here -over a decade ago, but when -you look around, it does -kind of seem like there's a -little bit of a segregation -issue lingering in the city.

-What do you mean?

What are -you seeing when you say -that?

-I think you know there are -historically black -neighborhoods in the city -and black areas of the city, -and sometimes it feels a -little siloed from the rest -of Nashville itself, right?

-Like sometimes when I'm -touring around in the south -and I have to drive -somewhere by myself, yeah?

-Like I go.

I've played in -North Carolina a lot, and -I've driven in North -Carolina by myself, and I've -gotten out at the gas -station that is, like, it's -just full of Confederate -flags in there, you know.

-And I feel a little on edge, and I feel like I got to get in and get out of here, and -I know exactly where that -place is, and I know not to -stop there, you know.

And so -there's like, an extra bit -of cautiousness anywhere I -travel, honestly in America, -especially in small rural -areas, I have an extra bit -of vigilance just for my own -safety and for my own body.

-But I think like being back -in the southern region of -the states has been cool for -the music part.

There's a -lot about black music here, -a lot about songwriting -here, and that I really -resonate with and really -vibe With at this point in -My life.

You won't you -image, you know when you -talk about that gas station -with all those Confederate -flags and having to drive through the South, that's part of the gig.

When -you're an independent -musician, you got to get in -your car and and you are -your own marketing -department.

You are your own -tour bus.

You are your own, absolutely everything.

Your gear set -up, everything.

And so you -do have to do a lot of alone -driving, alone time driving.

-And I think what's wild is -that you can have that -experience at the gas station where, oh my gosh, all these -Confederate flags.

I got to -get the heck out of here.

-But then the second you get -to where you need to be, you -pull out your guitar, you -start singing, and you can -disarm an entire room full -of racist people.

Like music -just makes everybody melt -into, I think sometimes the -best, the very best versions -of themselves.

And I guess I -don't know, the question, -but does music save us all -somehow?

Like, how does this -give you hope for America?

-I think that's a great angle -on very important topic.

-Because first of all, I'm -like standing on the -shoulders of generations of -musicians who have driven -through worse conditions to -get to the gig than I have.

-I go through the front door -because they went through -the back door for so many -long, so many years.

You -know, there are black people -in my audiences.

It's not an -all white audience that I'm -allowed to play for.

So I'm -grateful for.

You know, just -to be a little woo, woo.

I'm -grateful for our ancestors -for just chipping away at -those walls in the doors so -that I can, like, roll up to -a place in North Carolina, -which is distinctly a -southern place, you know, -and to like, really succeed -and to do well here as an -artist who's based in -Nashville, the one thing -that is keeping me sort of -buoyed amongst everything -that's going on in our -current events and the -proliferation of divisive -politics, especially as -perceived online, is that I -am literally going on tour -to small towns, rural -communities, mid size -cities, all kinds of places.

-I'm rolling up by myself.

-I'm rolling up with my band.

-I always have black folks in -my band, and the hospitality -in the kindness that I'm -shown by white folks, black -folks, Latino, Asian, -American folks, like all -kinds of people, it is like -a distinctly different -picture than what you might -get on your algorithm on -Instagram or Tiktok just -reading comment sections, if -I only had the opportunity -to perceive humanity from -what's going on online, I -would lose all of my faith, -but because I have the great -fortune of being able to -travel and to pop into -people's communities, and I -see that people crave they -crave connection, community -and safety, and they seek -music out for those things, -and I get to bring songs to -people that make them feel -connected and safe and make -them feel like they're a -part of something.

And -you're right, it disarms -people, and I get to see -that their humanity is -actually doing really well.

-It's the internet that's -making us really feel like -we're doomed.

There's a lot -that needs to happen and a -lot that needs to change in -our society, but I see that -people have have goodness in -them.

-Still.

Speaking of music, I -see a guitar behind you.

Oh, -yeah, you'd be willing to -play, would you be willing to play us something?

That old thing like, -yeah, that lives here.

Would -you be willing to play us a -song?

-Oh, for sure, absolutely, -I'm gonna play all the sweet tea, which is a song that I wrote about being faced with -wanting to be in the moment -and also having this hunger -to see the world and to be -in a bunch of places at -once.

And I don't really -have the answer for how to -reckon with those two, but -this song kind of a -celebration of of life and -all that it has to offer.

Time is taken like it always does, flies right by right -over us.

There is nothing -you can do to quell can do -to quell, to stop that girl -from running like -hell all the sweet tea, -Carolina, oh, the sun that -comes to dry up, all the -rain, all the mountain peaks in Colorado, they're waiting they're calling out our name -What I've been missing is -your tender touch, because -if I've got you, then I have -enough.

I don't want to -waste it all these precious -nights we never know the day when we're Gonna all the sweet -tea, all the sun that comes -to dry up all the rain, all -the mountain peaks, they're -calling out our land.

-You.

Thanks so much for -joining us.

If you want to -continue to be a part of the -home goings family, stay in -touch@homegoings.co and -subscribe to the homegoings -podcast wherever you listen, -take good care -all the sweet tea and -Carolina.

All the sun that -comes to dry up, all the -rain.