(Music playing) MADELEINE ALBRIGHT IS THE HIGHEST RANKING WOMAN IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT AS SECRETARY OF STATE SHE WORKED TO BRING PEACE TO THE BALKANS TO ASIA AND THE MIDDLE EAST SHE CONFRONTED THE VIOLENCE OF TERRORISM ALONG WITH BITTER PARTISAN STRUGGLES IN WASHINGTON FOR THE NEXT HOUR SECRETARY ALBRIGHT TALKS WITH CNN CORRESPONDENT-- RICHARD ROTH ABOUT HER EVENTFUL LIFE AND CAREER FROM THE KENTUCKY CENTER THE KENTUCKY AUTHOR FORUM PRESENTS A CONVERSATION WITH MADELEINE ALBRIGHT THIS IS THE CLOSEST I'VE GOTTEN TO UH THE SECRETARY OF STATE, THE FORMER UN AMBASSADOR BECAUSE FOR FOUR YEARS AT THE UNITED NATIONS I HAD A FENCE BETWEEN US UH, THIS IS A...

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT SCARES YOU NOW BUT THIS IS AS CLOSE AS I'VE COME, I MEAN FOR YEARS, IT WAS UH, MADAM AMBASSADOR, CAN YOU...?

SO THIS IS A, THIS A NICE UH, ARRANGEMENT HERE OF COURSE, MANY OF THE TIMES I WAS ASKING THERE WAS ONE QUESTION AND IT WAS ABOUT ONE PERSON THAT I WAS ASKING ABOUT IT WAS SADDAM HUSSEIN HOW MANY TIMES DID I ASK YOU úWHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT IRAQ SAYS?'

WHAT, BY THE WAY, WHAT DID THEY SAY ABOUT YOU AT THOSE TIME...

WHEN YOU WERE THE UN AMBASSADOR?

WELL, IT WAS VERY INTERESTING THEY DIDN'T LIKE ME AND SADDAM HUSSEIN ACTUALLY CALLED ME "A SNAKE" AND "A WITCH" UH, AND UH, I DIDN'T MIND THAT, ACTUALLY IT DEPEND... YOU KNOW, YOU UH, CHOOSE YOUR ENEMIES AND UH, ACTUALLY HIS CALLING ME A SNAKE AND I THINK UH, EITHER YOU OR ONE OF YOUR CNN COLLEAGUES ASKING ME THIS QUESTION LED TO THE WHOLE TRADITION OF THE PINS BECAUSE I HAD A SNAKE PIN THAT I DECIDED TO WEAR THE DAY HE CALLED ME A SNAKE AND UH, I UH WAS ASKED WHY I WAS WEARING THE PIN CNN ZEROED IN ON THE SNAKE PIN AND I EXPLAINED IT AND THEN I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE KIND OF INTERESTING THERE I SAT WITH THESE 14 MEN IN SUITS AND I THOUGHT I'D HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF FUN AND PICK DIFFERENT PINS TO DESCRIBE MY MOOD SO WHEN PEOPLE ASKED ME WHAT I WAS THINKING, I'D SAY "READ MY PINS" (Audience laughing) AND UH... (Audience laughing) I HAD A LOT OF FUN SO I HAD SPIDERS UH, AND I HAD BEES AND I HAD BUTTERFLIES WHEN I WAS FEELING GREAT AND BALLOONS WHEN I WAS FEELING UP AND UH, ONE TIME I WAS...

THIS IS WHEN I WAS SECRETARY I WAS NEGOTIATING WITH IGOR IVANOV OVER THE ANTI-BALLISTIC TREATY AND I HAD A LITTLE PIN THAT LOOKED LIKE A MISSILE AND I HAD IT ON AND HE SAID "IS THAT ONE OF YOUR INTERCEPTORS?"

AND I SAID, "YES, IT IS AND WE KNOW HOW TO MAKE THEM REAL SMALL."

(Audience laughing) DARE I ASK NOW WHAT PIN ARE YOU WEARING HERE?

WELL, NOW THIS IS UH, THE GREAT SEAL OF THE UNITED STATES WITH AN EAGLE BEHIND IT AND I HAVE A COLLECTION OF MY PATRIOTIC PINS THAT I LOVE TO WEAR UH, AND UH, I, I WEAR THEM VERY OFTEN AND WHEN I WAS IN NORTH KOREA I WORE THE BIGGEST AMERICAN FLAG PIN YOU'VE EVER SEEN THAT WENT FROM HERE TO HERE UH, JUST TO MAKE VERY CLEAR WHAT I WAS DOING WELL, I DON'T WANT TO KEEP PEOPLE ON PINS AND NEEDLES HERE, BUT BUT A BIG STORY UH, AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE SEEING THIS LATER ON TAPE, IT'S PROBABLY STILL THE BIG STORY IS THE CAPTURE OF SADDAM HUSSEIN HOW DID YOU HEAR OF THE NEWS?

WELL, I HEARD OF IT, ACTUALLY I WAS ON AN AIRPLANE COMING FROM INDIA AND THE PILOT OF THE PLANE WAS KIND ENOUGH TO SEND A MESSAGE BACK SAYING THAT UH, SADDAM HUSSEIN HAD BEEN CAPTURED AND I SAID, "WELL, WE SHOULD ANNOUNCE IT ON THE PLANE" AND HE SAID, "BUT EVERYBODY'S ASLEEP."

THIS WAS COMING BACK FROM INDIA?

COMING BACK FROM INDIA UH, AND I FELT A LITTLE BIT THE WAY I HAD FELT WHEN MILOSEVIC WAS BROUGHT DOWN BECAUSE AT THAT TIME I WAS ON A PLANE ALSO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT PLANE THE ONE I WAS ON THEN SAID UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ON IT THIS ONE HAD AIR INDIA HOW DOES IT FEEL TO RIDE WITH THE REST OF US, UH?

(Audience laughing) UH, IT'S OKAY (Audience laughing) UH, BUT THE PART THAT IS REALLY...

I TRULY AM INTO THE SECURITY SYSTEM BUT ONE OF THE HARD PARTS IS AS I AM BEING WANDED 'CAUSE I ALWAYS AM WITH MY ARMS OUT THEY ASK FOR MY AUTOGRAPH AND I SAY, YOU'VE GOT A CHOICE HERE EITHER I'M A TERRORIST OR YOU'RE GOING TO ASK FOR MY AUTOGRAPH BUT I CAN'T DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEARD THE NEWS?

WELL, FIRST OF ALL UH, I HOPED IT WAS TRUE AND I THOUGHT IT WAS TERRIFIC AND I REALLY, REALLY CONGRATULATE THE AMERICAN TROOPS FOR DOING AN INCREDIBLE JOB AND FINDING HIM AND I CONGRATULATE PRESIDENT BUSH FOR UH, PURSUING THIS UH, UH, CAPTURE OF HIM AND I THINK IT IS VERY IMPORTANT UH, ON THE OTHER HAND, IT WAS TO BE EXPECTED I MEAN, YOU GO TO WAR YOU SAY YOU WANT TO GET RID OF HIM UH, AND EITHER HE WAS GOING TO BE DEAD OR HE WAS GOING TO BE CAPTURED AND SO I THINK THAT IT'S VERY GOOD AND WE HAVE TO SEE WHERE THINGS GO NOW I STILL A THINK A LOT OF THE COUNTRY WAS CERTAINLY SURPRISED I MEAN, IN NEW YORK THE HEADLINES UH úWE BAG THE BUM' UH, EVERY ONE HAS A DIFFERENT VIEW OF THIS, BUT THERE WERE A LOT NAMES OBVIOUSLY AND CONTENTIOUS VITRIOL BETWEEN BAGHDAD AND YOURSELF I MEAN AT ONE POINT YOU WERE THE PRESIDENT OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL ON A ROTATING BASIS AND YOU HAD TO THEN MEET WITH ?

?

?TERRA ?

?

?KAZIZ, RIGHT?

IT WAS IN THAT OTHER CAPACITY THAT'S GOT TO BE A VERY INTERESTING EXPERIENCE WELL, IT, IT IS UH, INTERESTING BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS WE DIDN'T MEET WITH THE IRAQIS VERY OFTEN AND YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE PRESIDENT OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL YOU KIND OF GET AN EXEMPTION TO MEET WITH THE PEOPLE THAT YOU HAVE TO AS THE PRESIDENT AND UH, I WOULD ARGUE A GREAT DEAL WITH ?

?

?TERRA ?

?

?KAZIZ SAYING THAT THEY HAD NOT LIVED UP TO THEIR UH, OBLIGATIONS BUT MY HARDEST MEETING, ACTUALLY ON IRAQ WAS UH, YOU REMEMBER THAT THE IRAQIS UH, WERE... WE ACCUSED AND RIGHTFULLY SO THAT THEY HAD TRIED TO ASSASSINATE FORMER PRESIDENT BUSH AND I HAD A VERY PECULIAR ASSIGNMENT WHICH WAS TO EXPLAIN TO THE AMBASSADOR THERE, UH MR.

?

?

?HAMDUIN THAT UH, WE WERE BOMBING BAGHDAD AND UH, WE DID HAVE CERTAIN MEETINGS WITH THE IRAQIS WHEN WE MEET WITH THEM AND WOULD DEMARSH THEM WHICH IN DIPLOMATIC LANGUAGE IS TELL THEM OFF AND UH, WE WERE ABLE TO DO THAT INSIDE THE UN UH, BUILDINGS BUT THIS WAS HAPPENING OVER THE WEEK-END AND THE UN BUILDINGS WERE CLOSED THIS WAS A SATURDAY NIGHT BECAUSE MY TELEPHONE RANG AND THEY SAID, "THE U.S. IS BOMBING BAGHDAD AND YOU KNOW, WE HAD TO CHASE YOU OR WHAT WAS...

SOMEHOW WORD CAME THAT, úOH, MY GOD ALBRIGHT IS GOING TO MEET WITH ?

?

?HAMDUIN, THE AMBASSADOR' NOW THIS IS A VERY RARE OCCURRENCE WELL, AND I COULDN'T CERTAINLY INVITE HIM TO MY PLACE UH, SO I HAD TO GO... YOU HADN'T CLEANED?

WHAT WAS THE PROBLEM?

WELL, IT WAS KIND OF WEIRD TO INVITE SOMEBODY IN ORDER TO TELL THEM YOU WERE BOMBING, SO... (Audience laughing) I WENT TO HIS UH, UH, RESIDENCE ACTUALLY IT MUST BE THE SAME PLACE WHERE THE SCENE TOOK PLACE WITH YOU... THAT'S RIGHT ON THE UPPER EAST SIDE 80th STREET BETWEEN... WELL, I DON'T WANT TO GIVE OUT THE ADDRESS WHO KNOWS WHO'S OUT IN THE, OUT IN THE AUDIENCE BUT IT'S ON THE UPPER EAST SIDE WELL, SO I WENT THERE AND UH, THE GUARDS THERE SAID "YOU MAY GO IN, BUT LEAVE YOUR SECURITY OUTSIDE."

AND UH, THEY ESCORTED ME INTO A WOOD PANELED LIVING ROOM AND SEATED ME ON A SOFA UNDER A VERY LARGE PORTRAIT OF SADDAM HUSSEIN AND UH, AMBASSADOR ?

?

?HAMDUIN CAME IN AND HE SAID "SO WHAT BRINGS YOU HERE, TODAY?

CAN I OFFER YOU SOME TEA?"

AND I SAID, "WELL, I'M HERE BECAUSE THE MAN IN THE PORTRAIT "ABOVE ME TRIED TO MURDER OUR PRESIDENT AND I'M HERE TO TELL YOU THAT WE ARE BOMBING BAGHDAD."

SO MUCH FOR TEA (Audience laughing) AND THEN I THOUGHT TO MYSELF WHAT MAKES ME THINK I'M GOING TO GET OUT OF HERE UH, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, úTHAT'S AN OUTRAGEOUS LIE' AND I SAID, "NO, ACTUALLY IT'S AN OUTRAGEOUS TRUTH "AND YOU HAVE TO COME TO THE SECURITY COUNCIL WHERE I WILL OFFER THE EVIDENCE OF THIS."

SO THOSE WERE KIND OF MY DEALINGS WITH THE IRAQIS I REMEMBER RACING OVER THERE AND I THINK JUST CATCHING YOU LEAVING WELL, YOU MENTIONED THE FIRST PRESIDENT BUSH UH, I BELIEVE HE COMPARED SADDAM HUSSEIN TO HITLER AT THAT TIME AND YOU OF ALL PEOPLE CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT IT WAS LIKE LIVING UNDER THE SHADOW OF ADOLF HITLER YOU WERE A VERY YOUNG GIRL AT THAT TIME TELL US UH, HOW THIS INCREDIBLE CAREER STARTED AND RELATE PERHAPS TO HOW YOU... WHAT YOU LEARNED THEN INSTILLED IN YOU UH, IN THE WORLD OF DIPLOMACY THINGS WELL, YOU KNOW, I, I WRITE IN MY BOOK THAT I NEVER WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WHAT I BECAME UH, WHO KNOWS WHAT I WOULD HAVE BEEN, BUT UH, I WAS BORN IN CZECHOSLOVAKIA IN 1937 MY UH, PARENTS, MY FATHER WAS A, A YOUNG DIPLOMAT AND UH, WHEN THE NAZIS TOOK OVER... INVADED UH, CZECHOSLOVAKIA IN MARCH, UH, 1939 UH, MY FATHER ESCAPED HE WAS VERY CLOSE TO THE PRESIDENT AND ANYBODY THAT WAS IDENTIFIED WITH THE CZECH THE CZECHOSLOVAK DEMOCRATIC CAUSES WAS UNDER SUSPICION SO WE LEFT AND UH, I SPENT THE WAR IN ENGLAND UH, I THINK THE THING THAT, THAT MAKES ME UH... ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT MAKES ME DIFFERENT FROM AMERICANS THAT WERE BORN HERE IS THAT I ACTUALLY LIVED THROUGH BOMBING AND UH, SPENT TIME IN AIR RAID SHELTERS AND UNDERSTOOD THE HORRORS OF UH WHAT THE GERMAN NAZIS WERE DOING UH, AND I REMEMBER AS A CHILD UH, SEEING THAT THE BEACHES IN ENGLAND HAD BIG BARRICADES ON THEM BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID PEOPLE WOULD INVADE AND UH SO I GREW UP KNOWING ABOUT WAR AND BOMBING AND ATTA- HORRIBLE THINGS WE RETURNED TO CZECHOSLOVAKIA WHEN... WITH THE LIBERATION AND UH, THEN MY FATHER BECAME AMBASSADOR TO YUGOSLAVIA AND THEN THE COMMUNISTS TOOK OVER SO WE HAD TO LEAVE AGAIN AND SO I VERY MUCH GREW UP WITH THE SENSE OF KNOWING AT DICTATORS UH DO TERRIBLE, EVIL THINGS AND THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO STAND UP TO THEM UH, AND THAT APPEASEMENT IS UNACCEPTABLE YOU'RE VERY SIMILAR TO YOUR FATHER I MEAN PEOPLE SAY úMADELEINE ALBRIGHT IS HER FATHER INCARNATE' UH, WHAT... HOW... IS THAT TRUE?

I HOPE SO UH, BECAUSE I THINK MY FATHER WAS A REMARKABLE MAN BECAUSE ONE-- HE WAS A, A DEDICATED PUBLIC SERVANT AND UH, UH, SOMEBODY WHO LOVED HIS COUNTRY AND LOVED DEMOCRACY WORKED VERY HARD FOR IT AND REMARKABLE IN HIS ABILITY I THINK TO COME TO UNITED STATES AND START ALL OVER AND HE BECAME DEAN OF THE GRADUATE SCHOOL OF INTERNATIONAL STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF DENVER UH, AND CONDOLEEZZA RICE WAS ONE OF HIS STUDENTS WHICH IS... YOU NEVER KNOW WHO YOU'RE SITTING OUT THERE NEXT TO YOU NEVER KNOW BUT I THINK THE THING WAS THAT HE REALLY WAS A HUMANIST AND A TEACHER UH, AND SOMEBODY WHO LOVED DIPLOMACY MY MOTHER WAS A LITTLE QUIRKIER UH, SHE WAS ONE OF THESE WONDERFUL PEOPLE WITH WITH GREAT UH, PEOPLE SENSE AND LOVE OF LIFE UH, AND A LITTLE NUTTY 'CAUSE SHE READ PALMS SHE LIKED HOROSCOPES, RIGHT?

SHE LIKED... WELL, SHE MOSTLY LIKED PALMS SHE'D STOPPED READING MINE BECAUSE SHE DISCOVERED I HAD NO BRAIN LINE (Audience laughing) BY THE WAY, YOU'RE A TAURUS, I LOOKED IT UP I AM A TAURUS DO YOU FIND THAT... ARE YOU A BULL?

YEAH (Audience laughing) IN EVERYTHING, IN EVERY AREA?

WELL, NO, I'M, I'M...

I MUST SAY I'M THE LEAST STUBBORN MEMBER OF MY OWN FAMILY BUT I UH, UH, I'M PRETTY DOWN-TO-EARTH AND I PUT MY HEAD DOWN AND DO MY WORK YOUR FATHER UH, IN EFFECT, WHEN YOU WENT BACK TO UH...

HE WENT TO SARAJEVO HE WAS REPRESENTING IN EFFECT THE COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT THERE, RIGHT?

IN CZECHOSLOVAKIA AT THE TIME WHEN HE RETURNED HOW DID...

I MEAN IN EFFECT HE WAS REPRESENTING A GOVERNMENT WHOSE STATEMENTS AND VIEWS HE DIDN'T DIS- HE DIDN'T AGREE WITH HOW DID THAT SHAPE YOUR UH, WORK UH, AS A SECRETARY OF STATE OR UN AMBASSADOR, IF YOU HAD TO CARRY OUT ASSIGNMENTS THAT YOU DIDN'T AGREE WITH WELL, HE HAD A VERY INTERESTING POSITION AND I THINK THAT THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT CZECHOSLOVAKIA BECAUSE IT WAS LIBERATED BY THE SOVIET UNION INSTEAD OF BY DWIGHT EISENHOWER WHO ACTUALLY UH, THE, THE AMERICAN ARMY WAS 45 MILES OUTSIDE OF PRAGUE AND THE DECISION WAS MADE THE SOVIETS WOULD LIBERATE IT CHANGED THE ENTIRE STORY FOR NOT ONLY CZECHOSLOVAKIA BUT CENTRAL AND EASTERN EUROPE AND THE COMMUNISTS WON THE FIRST ELECTION IN CZECHOSLOVAKIA IN 1946 AND SO A COALITION GOVERNMENT WAS FORMED PRESIDENT BENES, THE SECOND PRESIDENT THE DEMOCRAT WAS PRESIDENT BUT UH, THERE WERE COMMUNISTS THROUGHOUT THE GOVERNMENT THE FOREIGN MINISTER WAS A MAN CALLED ?

?

?JAN MASSERICK WHO WAS THE SON OF CZECHOSLOVAKIA'S FIRST PRESIDENT BUT HIS DEPUTY WAS A COMMUNIST SO IT WAS ALL KIND OF LARDED THROUGH I, I THINK ON THE WHOLE UH, IN THE PERIOD BEFORE THE COUP IN FEBRUARY 1948 MY FATHER DIDN'T HAVE TROUBLE REPRESENTING HIS GOVERNMENT WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT HIS NEXT ASSIGNMENT WAS AS THE CZECHOSLOVAK REPRESENTATIVE TO THE UNITED NATIONS ACTUALLY FOR A COMMISSION ON INDIAN PAKISTAN AND THERE HE COULDN'T REPRESENT HIS OWN GOVERNMENT AND SO HE ACTUALLY NEVER REPORTED TO IT AND REPORTED TO THE BRITISH UH, AND THEN WHEN WE CAME TO THE UNITED STATES HE ASKED FOR POLITICAL ASYLUM AND UH, TELL...

THE BOOK DESCRIBES HOW YOU ARRIVED IN THE UNITED STATES A LOT OF PEOPLE TAKE FOR GRANTED NEW YORK HARBOR AND UH NEW YORKERS NEVER GO TO THAT STUFF BUT YOU... WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU ARRIVED?

WELL, I... WE ARRIVED ON NOVEMBER 11, 1948 ON THE SS AMERICA AND SEEING THE STATUE OF LIBERTY AS AN 11-YEAR-OLD UH, GIRL WAS A TRULY MEANINGFUL MOMENT FOR ME AND I... FOR ME, AMERICA DURING THE WAR HAD OBVIOUSLY BEEN THE SAVIOR I FELL IN LOVE WITH AMERICANS IN UNIFORM WHEN I WAS A VERY LITTLE GIRL AND UH, SO COMING TO AMERICA WAS A... A HUGE THING AND I WANTED DESPERATELY TO BE AN AMERICAN AND UH, I STILL, WHENEVER I GO TO NEW YORK I ACTUALLY LOOK OUT THE WINDOW IN THE AIRPLANE AND SEE THE STATUE OF LIBERTY AND WHEN YOU GO UP ON THE TRAIN YOU KNOW IT'S OVER THERE TO THE RIGHT AND IT MEANS A GREAT DEAL TO ME WELL, IT'S A VERY UH, DETAILED STORY AND WE COULD GO ON ABOUT THE HISTORY, WHICH I THINK REALLY LEARNS... YOU CAN LEARN A LOT ABOUT YOU AND THE BACKGROUND THERE ALSO YOU WENT TO DENVER YOU WERE GOING TO DIFFERENT SCHOOLS WHO...

WHICH GROUP IS UH, MORE OF A THREAT TO WORLD SECURITY?

GLOBAL VILLAINS OR HIGH SCHOOL AMERICAN GIRLS?

(Audience laughing) WELL, I THINK UH HIGH SCHOOL AMERICAN GIRLS ARE PRETTY AWFUL AND SO, UH WHEN UH, PEOPLE THINK THE WORLD WOULD BE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT IF IT WERE ALL RUN BY WOMEN THEY JUST NEED TO REMEMBER WHAT HIGH SCHOOL IS LIKE (Audience laughing) WELL, TELL US, UH (Audience laughing) I MEAN, I, I... YOU READ THE BOOK AND THERE ARE SOME MOMENTS EVERYBODY CAN RELATE TO ABOUT, I MEAN I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO TELL THIS IN PUBLIC BUT UH, THE YOUNG MAN WHO ASKED YOU OUT TO DANCE WHO THEN KEEPS GOING OUT WITH YOU AND UH HE WAS A SOPHOMORE UH, WOULD YOU CARE...?

WELL, THE MAIN PROBLEM I HAD WAS MY FATHER UH, BECAUSE UH... AH, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO TELL THAT STORY, OKAY WELL, BUT I MEAN HIS PROBLEM WAS THAT UH, HE HAD TO FOLLOW ME ON DATES SO IT WAS KIND OF MIRACULOUS THAT I EVER HAD A DATE, BUT UH, FINALLY...

HE WAS A STALKER HE WAS... (Audience laughing) WELL, HE CERTAINLY WAS A CHAPERON HE WAS ONE OF THESE PEOPLE WHO WENT FISHING IN A COAT AND TIE I MEAN TRYING TO BE A NORMAL AMERICAN WITH MY PARENTS WAS NOT AN EASY ISSUE BUT UH, ANYWAY, FINALLY SOMEBODY DID ASK ME OUT I WAS A SOPHOMORE IN HIGH SCHOOL THIS YOUNG MAN TURNED OUT TO BE A SOPHOMORE IN COLLEGE AND I COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT HE WAS REALLY SPENDING TIME WITH ME AND UH SURPRISED THAT HE PUT UP WITH THE STUPID CURFEWS THAT I HAD AND ALL OF A SUDDEN HE STOPPED DATING ME AND THE RUMOR AT THE SCHOOL WAS AND IT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE THAT AN UPPER-CLASS GIRL HAD SAID úIF YOU WANT TOO OUT WITH ME YOU HAVE TO GO OUT WITH MADELEINE CORBELLE FOR A WHILE FIRST.'

AND SO THAT WAS PRETTY HURTFUL EVERYBODY DENIES THAT NOW BY THE WAY, I WENT BACK TO DENVER AND MET I WITH SOME OF MY YOU WENT TO LOOK FOR THAT GUY?

NO, NO (Audience laughing) BUT, BUT I WENT THERE AND I MET WITH A LOT OF MY HIGH SCHOOL FRIENDS IT WAS A VERY SMALL SCHOOL AND THEY SAID, "OH, BUT MADELEINE, WE LOVED YOU YOU KNOW, WE JUST THOUGHT YOU WERE WONDERFUL."

(Audience laughing) UH... (Audience laughing) THEN UH, YOU MOVE ON TO COLLEGE AND DIFFERENT SCHOOLS AND WHAT WAS THAT EXPERIENCE AT WELLESLEY WHAT WAS THAT EXPERIENCE LIKE?

WELL, I LOVED WELLESLEY AND FIRST OF ALL IT WAS A REAL OPPORTUNITY TO GO TO A FANTASTIC SCHOOL AND UH, I LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT AND I LOVED THE IDEA, AT THE TIME AND I STILL DO THAT IT WAS A WOMAN'S COLLEGE BECAUSE UH, I THINK IT REALLY GAVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE LEADERSHIP ROLES AND UH AND I LIKED IT AND I ALSO HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO FINALLY BE ON MY OWN UH, AND NOT HAVE MY FATHER FOLLOWING ME AROUND ALL THE TIME UH, BUT I WAS THE CLASS OF 1959 UH, A GROUP OF WOMEN, I THINK THAT WERE REALLY KIND OF TRANSITIONAL BECAUSE ALL OF US WANTED TO GET MARRIED AND I DID, THREE DAYS AFTER GRADUATING T WE ALSO WANTED TO HAVE SOME KIND OF INTERESTING CAREERS AND LIVES AND WERE TRYING TO BALANCE IT HILLARY CLINTON WENT TO WELLESLEY TEN YEARS AFTER ME AND HER CLASS WAS QUITE DIFFERENT BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNEW THAT THEY WANTED TO HAVE INDEPENDENT CAREERS AND THAT TEN-YEAR DIFFERENCE WAS A VERY, VERY BIG DIFFERENCE IN WOMEN'S LIVES IN AMERICA AND UH, BUT WELLESLEY FOR ME GAVE ME THE BEST POSSIBLE EDUCATION AND EQUALLY IMPORTANT THE BEST POSSIBLE FRIENDS I MEAN, YOU WENT ON, UH TO BE INVOLVED IN DIFFERENT GROUPS AND CAUSES, BUT THEN YOU HAD CHILDREN YOU, YOU WERE KIND OF DOING IT ALL UH, YOU WERE... TALK ABOUT IT IN THE BOOK THAT UH TODAY, AND LAST FEW YEARS YOU HEAR WOMEN, ESPECIALLY THEY'RE GUILTY, THEY'RE FEELING GUILTY EITHER WAY THEY PLAY IT REGARDING MOTHERHOOD AND A JOB WELL, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THE WOMEN IN THE AUDIENCE WOULD AGREE WITH ME BUT I ACTUALLY THINK THAT EVERY WOMAN'S MIDDLE NAME IS "GUILT" (Audience laughing) (Audience applauding) YOU KNOW YOU'RE NEVER IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME AND YOU NEVER THINK YOU'VE DONE ENOUGH AND YOU WANT TO BE WITH YOUR FAMILY BUT YOU ALSO WANT TO DO OTHER THINGS WHETHER IT'S TO BE ON BOARDS OR POLITICAL ACTIVITIES OR HAVE A JOB OR JUST HAVE A LIFE AND YOU NEVER THINK YOU'VE DONE ENOUGH AND I'VE FINALLY COME TO THE FOLLOWING UH, REALIZATION IS THAT WOMEN'S LIVES COME IN SEGMENTS DUE TO BIOLOGY AND THAT WE ACTUALLY SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT THAT IT IS... CAN BE A POSITIVE BECAUSE WHEN A MAN CHANGES CAREERS AND JOBS HE'S VIEWED AS KIND OF FLAKY AND WHEN A WOMAN UH, CHANGES, AT VARIOUS TIMES I THINK THAT IT OFFERS GREAT OPPORTUNITIES SO MY THOUGHT IS AND THIS IS WHAT...

I HAVE THREE DAUGHTERS UH, THAT I REALLY THINK THAT WE... WOMEN CAN DO EVERYTHING, BY THE WAY BUT NOT ALL AT THE SAME TIME I'M AFRAID TO ASK WHAT A MAN'S MIDDLE NAME SHOULD BE (Audience laughing) UH, YOU WERE A JOURNALIST AT ONE POINT AT A GOOD COLLEGE, THERE UH, DO YOU UH, MISS THAT OR YOU RATHER HAVE THEM ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE?

UH, WELL, I THINK THE, THE WORLD WAS SAVED...

I MEAN I DID WANT TO BE A JOURNALIST THAT WAS...

I WAS UH, ONE NEWS EDITOR OF MY NEWSPAPER AND THEN I MARRIED A JOURNALIST AND I ACTUALLY DID WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO IS GO AND WORK ON A SMALL NEWSPAPER, I WORKED WHILE JOE WAS IN THE ARMY IN, AT THE ROLLA DAILY NEWS IN ROLLA, MISSOURI AND I LOVED IT, I DID EVERYTHING, I I UH, UH, WROTE THE EDITORIALS, I UH, TOOK ADS UH, I INTERVIEWED PEOPLE WHO'D SEEN UFO's (Audience laughing) UH, I TOOK A, ONE OF THE GREAT ADS OF ALL TIME I TOOK, WHEN SOMEBODY CAME IN I'LL NEVER FORGET IT, I SENT IT IN TO THE NEW YORKER AND IT SAID, úCEMETERY LOT FOR SALE OWNER MUST MOVE, SELL AT SACRIFICE' (Audience laughing) BUT THEN, WE MOVED TO CHICAGO AND UH JOE'S MANAGING EDITOR SAID "SO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO, HONEY?"

AND I SAID, "WELL, I THOUGHT I'D GET A JOB ON A NEWSPAPER" AND HE SAID, "NO" UH, THERE WERE FOUR NEWSPAPERS IN CHICAGO AT THE TIME AND HE SAID, "WELL, YOU CAN'T WORK ON THE SAME PAPER AS YOUR HUSBAND "BECAUSE OF GUILD REGULATIONS "AND IT'S NOT A GOOD IDEA "FOR YOU TO WORK ON A COMPETING PAPER, AFTER ALL SO WHY DON'T YOU THINK ABOUT DOING SOMETHING ELSE."

AND INSTEAD OF SAYING WHAT I MIGHT SAY TODAY I SAID, "SURE" (Audience laughing) UH, AND SO I STARTED OUT ON A DIFFERENT CAREER PATH AND I THINK UH I PROBABLY UH, HAVE SAVED THE WORLD FROM NOT BEING A GREAT JOURNALIST AND...

BUT IT DOES MAKE ME, BELIEVE IT OR NOT I ACTUALLY RESPECT THE JOURNALISTS WHO ASK THE QUESTIONS AND WHO TELL THE STORY STRAIGHT AND DON'T SPIN IT AND UH, AND I SEE A JOURNALIST AS BEING A KEY PART OF HOW OUR DEMOCRACY WORKS IF THEY DO THEIR JOB RIGHT YOU WERE...

BECAME A CAMPAIGN ACTIVIST I MEAN YOU WERE WORKING FOR ADLAI STEVENSON I MAY BE SWITCHING THE YEARS HERE BUT YOU MET UH, PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY WHAT WAS THAT LIKE, BRIEF ME WELL, THAT WAS WHEN I WAS AT WELLESLEY AND HE WAS RUNNING FOR THE SENATE IN 1958 AND UH IN MASSACHUSETTS, UH I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT EVERYBODY WAS COMPLETELY BESOTTED BY HIM UH, AND HE CAME TO THE CAMPUS WE ALL JUST KIND OF SAT THERE I THEN UH, DID INTERVIEW HIM AND THEN I DID SOMETHING VERY UNPROFESSIONAL I ASKED FOR HIS AUTOGRAPH UH, WHICH MY THEN FIANCEE SAID WHO WAS ALSO EDITOR OF HIS PAPER SAID, "MY GOSH, MADELEINE YOU KNOW, THAT'S SO UNPROFESSIONAL OF YOU."

IT WAS UNPROFESSIONAL BUT I HAVE THE AUTOGRAPH (Audience laughing) (Audience applauding) BUT THEN YOU POINTED OUT I ACTUALLY HAVE A GREAT RECORD OF WORKING FOR A SERIES OF LOSING DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES CONGRATULATIONS WHO'S GOING TO BE UH, I SHOULDN'T... DON'T ASK (Audience laughing) WILL HILLARY CLINTON BE PRESIDENT ONE DAY?

I HOPE SO, I THINK THAT SHE'S A REMARKABLE WOMAN (Audience applauding) ALL RIGHT, UH I THINK WE KNOW WHICH WAY THIS AUDIENCE IS UH, GOING I...NO AUTOGRAPHS, PLEASE AFTER THIS, UH ABSOLUTELY, RICHARD ALL RIGHT, SO WHAT WAS IT?

YOU WORKED FOR ED MUSKIE ONE OF THE LOSING UH, CANDIDATES UH, AT ONE POINT HE HAD A TEMPER WHAT ELSE DID YOU LEARN FROM HIM, THOUGH?

WELL, I THINK THAT UH, I LEARNED A LOT FROM HIM HE NOT ONLY IN SIZE, BUT IN, UH CAPACITY WAS A GIANT IN AMERICAN POLITICS AND SOMEBODY WHO LOVED BEING A PUBLIC SERVANT FOR WHOM, WHEN YOU SAID "POLITICIAN" IT WAS NOT AN INSULT UH, HE CARED DEEPLY ABOUT HOW THE SENATE WORKED AND HOW AMERICAN DEMOCRACY WORKED AND I LEARNED THE IMPORTANCE OF UH, PUBLIC SERVICE AND GOOD POLITICAL WORK HE DID HAVE A TEMPER BUT UH, I WAS VERY LUCKY, HE NEVER YELLED AT ME HE YELLED ABOUT THINGS TO ME UH, WHICH IS DIFFERENT UH, AND HE REALLY WAS KIND OF MY POLITICAL PATRON AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU GET TO DO WHEN YOU'RE SECRETARY OF STATE IS MOVE THE PORTRAITS AROUND IN THE UH, MAIN ROOM WHERE YOU HAVE AND YOU CAN BRING IN YOUR FAVORITES AND SO I BROUGHT ED MUSKIE IN TO UH, WATCH OVER ME WHEN I WAS SECRETARY YOU THEN, IN SOME READING I DID ABOUT YOU, PEOPLE IN DIFFERENT BOOKS HAVE SAID THAT YOU, YOU HAD AN INTERESTING STYLE THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO FIT IN TO THIS MALE CLUB IN THE MUSKIE GROUP AND ELSEWHERE AND THAT EVEN IF SOMEONE LIKE MUSKIE WAS UPSET, YOU DIDN'T YOU SOMEHOW WERE ABLE TO... NOW WAS THIS ALL, WAS THIS SKILL, WERE YOU, UH EARLY ON FIGURING OUT HOW THIS, HOW YOU COULD CLIMB THE LADDER?

WHAT WAS IT?

I THINK... MY MAIN INTEREST, UH, WAS TO UH, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, MY MAIN INTEREST IN LIFE, ACTUALLY PROBABLY NOT A TOTALLY GOOD QUALITY IS TO FIT IN AND THAT I THINK COMES FROM HAVING NOT... HAVE...

ALWAYS BEING A FOREIGNER UH, I UH, EVEN BEFORE WE CAME TO THE UNITED STATES WE MOVED AROUND A LOT I HAD TO LEARN A LOT OF DIFFERENT LANGUAGES AND WHEN WE CAME TO THE UNITED STATES AS I SAID, I WANTED TO BE AN AMERICAN AND I HAD A, UH VERY ENGLISH ACCENT WHICH I LOST AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE AND, AND WANTED TO BE UH, A LINE I HAVE IN THE BOOK I WANTED TO BE A "PLAIN VANILLA AMERICAN" AND MY PARENTS CONTINUED TO BE THEIR SPICY SELVES AND IT DROVE ME CRAZY SO UH, SO FITTING IN IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I LIKE TO DO AND UH, I UH, I THINK THAT, THAT WAS MAINLY I WANTED TO HAVE AN INTERESTING JOB AND I UH, AND I WANTED TO BE A PART OF THE AMERICAN POLITICAL PROCESS I KNOW SOME PEOPLE HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT ME THAT I WAS VERY AMBITIOUS AND I HAVE UH, IN MY BOOK SAID THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN QUALITIES WHICH IN WOMEN ARE DESCRIBED AS "AGGRESSIVE" "BITCHY" UH, WHICH IN MEN ARE DESCRIBED AS "BOLD" "COURAGEOUS" UH (Audience applauding) AND WHEN A MAN IS... ARE THERE ANY MEN IN THE AUDIENCE?

I CAN'T SEE, BUT... IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE?

I FEEL LIKE THE SPOTLIGHT IS ON ME I THINK THAT WHEN A MAN IS CALLED "AMBITIOUS" IT IS VIEWED AS A POSITIVE WHEN A WOMAN IS CALLED "AMBITIOUS" IT IS VIEWED AS KIND OF CREEPING, CRAWLING AND I RESENT THAT WE CAN JUMP A LITTLE BIT AHEAD WITH THE CLINTON GROUP YOU RELATE HOW IN A LOT OF MEETINGS YOU FELT MEN WERE ROLLING THEIR EYES AT SOME POINTS IF YOU HAD AN IDEA THAT YOU WERE BEING SILENCED UH, A LITTLE BIT EARLY BY SOME PEOPLE HOW DID YOU UH, DEAL WITH THAT?

WELL, I THINK THE THING IS THAT, UH YOU KNOW THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER A WOMAN COULD BE SECRETARY OF STATE HOW WOULD I DEAL WITH FOREIGN MEN?

ESPECIALLY THE ARAB MEN WELL, I DIDN'T HAVE ANY TROUBLE WITH THEM BECAUSE I ARRIVED IN A VERY LARGE PLANE THAT SAID UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ON IT AND THEY KNEW THAT IF THEY HAD...

WERE GOING TO DEAL WITH THE U.S.

THEY HAD TO DEAL WITH ME, SO I DIDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM I DID HAVE PROBLEM WITH THE MEN IN OUR GOVERNMENT NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE MALE CHAUVINIST PIGS BUT BECAUSE UH, I THINK MANY OF THEM HAD KNOWN ME TOO LONG YOU KNOW, THEY HAD KNOWN ME THROUGH ALL THESE DIFFERENT STAGES WHEN I WAS A CARPOOL MOM OR UH, A FRIEND OF THEIR WIFE'S OR A STAFFER FOR SENATOR MUSKIE OR THESE DIFFERENT THINGS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN I WAS SECRETARY OF STATE AND I THINK THAT THERE ARE PLENTY OF INCIDENCE OF SEXUAL DISCRIMINATION THAT MANY WOMEN KNOW BUT A LOT OF IT IS, IS KIND OF SUBCONSCIOUS AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T KNOW IT SO IF SOMEBODY SITS THERE AND GOES LIKE THIS WHEN YOU'RE TALKING OR LOOKS AT THEIR WATCH UH, IT'S A LITTLE IRRITATING UH, AND DURING THE, THE FIRST TERM, WHEN I WAS UN AMBASSADOR I WOULD KIND OF SHOOT BACK AT IT AND THEN WHEN I BECAME SECRETARY I DECIDED THAT THE BEST THING WAS JUST TO KEEP TALKING, BE CALM AND SAY TO MYSELF, YOU ARE THE SECRETARY OF STATE WHAT ABOUT... WHAT ARE THESE MEN, THESE DIPLOMATS REALLY LIKE LET'S SAY THE UN OR AROUND THE WORLD?

ARE THEY PEOPLE?

I MEAN YOU SEE THE SADDAM HUSSEIN VIDEO OF UH THE DOCTOR INSPECTING HIS MOUTH AND YOU'RE... WHAT ARE THESE PEOPLE REALLY LIKE WHEN THE CAMERAS WHEN THE PEOPLE HERE CAN'T READ ABOUT THEM IN THE NEWSPAPER IS IT A VERY STIFF MEETING?

YOU KNOW, TEN MINUTES, YOU'RE OUT WHAT HAPPENS BEHIND THE CLOSED DOORS?

BY THE WAY, LET ME TELL YOU, RICHARD I AM SO SICK OF LOOKING INTO SADDAM HUSSEIN'S MOUTH (Audience laughing) (Audience applauding) BUT UH, I THINK THAT THE THING THAT I FOUND IS THAT THEY REALLY...

I LOVED THE JOB FOR MANY REASONS ONE IS I AM A PEOPLE PERSON AND I TRY TO FIND OUT WHO, WITH WHOM I'M DEALING I THINK ALSO IT'S GOOD DIPLOMACY TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE OTHER PERSON HAS ON HIS OR HER MIND MOSTLY HIS, AND UH, AND I THINK THAT IT, IT WAS... FOR ME, THEY BECAME VERY UH, INTERESTING PEOPLE THE HARD PART, OFTEN IS, IS IF YOU HAVE A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEBODY THAT YOU'VE DEVELOPED OVER UH, TIME BECAUSE YOU HAVE LUNCH TOGETHER OR UH, SEE YOU PASSING IN THE HALLS THEN YOU HAVE A VERY TOUGH DEBATE UH, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO KEEP UP THAT TOUGH EXTERIOR ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT YOU AND I ACTUALLY WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER IS THE RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UN NOW ?

?

?SERAGAVE ?

?

?LOVRAV WHO IS ONE OF THE SMARTEST PEOPLE, UH THAT I THINK AND I AGREE, WE BOTH KNOW HE CAN BE TOTALLY CHARMING AND YET WE HAD SOME REALLY TOUGH DISCUSSIONS AND YOU KEEP THINKING "OKAY, GET OFF IT, YOU KNOW UH, LET'S DEAL WITH THIS" BUT THEN IN FACT, THERE ARE SOME UH, WONDERFUL MOMENTS WHERE PEOPLE ARE VERY GOOD FRIENDS I MEAN THEY SAY ON A DATE UH, úLET THE MAN TALK' IS THAT WHAT YOU DID WITHIN THESE MEETINGS WITH THESE PEOPLE OR WHAT WAS YOUR STRATEGY?

WELL, I, I USED EVERYTHING I COULD I UH, YOU KNOW, ON UH I, I...

I WAS A LITTLE BAIT AND SWITCH I THINK I WOULD BE VERY CHARMING AND THEN I'D LET THEM HAVE IT UH, AND WHEN I WAS TRAVELING, FOR INSTANCE AND I'D END UP IN SOME COUNTRY I HAD A STANDARD LINE WHICH WAS úI HAVE COME FAR, SO I MUST BE FRANK' UH, AND UH, SO I FELT THAT IT WAS REALLY IMPORTANT TO TELL IT LIKE IT IS AT CERTAIN TIMES UH, I WAS SOMETIMES ACCUSED OF NOT BEING DIPLOMATIC BUT UH, I REALLY LOVED REPRESENTING THE UNITED STATES I HAD A POINT OF VIEW I TRIED TO BE CONCILIATORY I WORKED VERY HARD TO GET VOTES UH, AND, BUT SOMETIMES YOU HAD TO TELL IT STRAIGHT WELL, YOU CERTAINLY DID THAT AT THE UN UH, LET'S...

VARIOUS ISSUES, SOMALIA YOU COULD, WE COULD GO ON ON THIS BUT, UH THE VIDEO OF THE IMAGE OF THE U.S.

SOLDIERS BEING DRAGGED THROUGH THE STREETS I MEAN THAT IN EFFECT CHANGED U.S. FOREIGN POLICY FOR NOW A DECADE IN SOME WAYS AND THE RAMIFICATIONS WERE HUGE I MEAN WHEN I ARRIVED THERE IN '93 RIGHT AS YOU DID, I THOUGHT OH, MY THIS COULD BE A COMBINATION STATE DEPARTMENT/PENTAGON IF THIS OPERATION SUCCEEDS, IT'S GOING TO BE UNBELIEVABLE AND THEN DID THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION QUIT TOO EARLY THERE?

WHAT HAPPENED?

WELL, I THINK SOME CONTEXT HERE IS IMPORTANT WHICH IS THAT UH, WHEN YOU AND I WERE BO- WELL, YOU'RE STILL THERE, BUT WHEN I WAS THERE AT THE UN...

UNFORTUNATELY NO, IT WAS A FASCINATING TIME BECAUSE THE UN WAS COMING ALIVE AFTER THE PARALYSIS OF THE COLD WAR AND THE FIRST PRESIDENT BUSH HAD ACTUALLY BEEN THE PERSON TO REVIVE IT BY GOING TO THE UN IN ORDER TO GET UH, A MANDATE FOR COALITION IN THE FIRST GULF WAR AND UH, ALL OF A SUDDEN, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT WHAT THE UN COULD DO UH, HOW PEACEKEEPING OPERATIONS REALLY COULD GO AND HELP A COUNTRY FIRST, UH A NORMAL KIND OF HUMANITARIAN OPERATION BUT THEN TRYING TO DEAL WITH SOME OF THE INTERNAL CONFLICTS AND WE WERE LOOKING AT WHAT COULD UH, WE FELT MORE SHOULD BE DONE IN BOSNIA THERE WERE A VARIETY OF, OF... WE JUST KEPT... THAT'S WHAT WE DID WE...

THE SECURITY COUNCIL, WHEN I WAS THERE MET CONSTANTLY IT USED TO UH, IN THE OLD DAYS MEET ONCE A MONTH KIND OF IN A PERFUNCTORY WAY TO TAKE A PICTURE OF THE NEW PRESIDENT WHO ROTATED ALPHABETICALLY AND THAT WAS IT AND WE MET ALL THE TIME 'CAUSE WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE THINGS WORK WELL, SOMEHOW IT GOT TO BE THAT GENERAL AIDEED BECAME PERSONALIZED WE CAN SEE THAT SIMILAR WITH OSAMA BIN LADEN ALMOST NOW THEN 24 PAKISTANI PEACEKEEPERS ARE KILLED IN JUNE OF '93 THEN CAME THE AMERICANS IN OCTOBER COULD YOU SEE THIS UNFOLDING?

I MEAN COULDN'T, COULDN'T SOMEONE...

I THINK THAT WE FELT THAT THERE WAS A JOB TO BE DONE THERE AND IT'S A, IT'S A VERY CONFUSING TIME AND I DO TRY TO DESCRIBE THIS IN THE BOOK IN TERMS OF WHO WAS REALLY IN CHARGE WE WANTED THE UNITED NATIONS TO BE IN CHARGE UH, BOUTROS-GHALI SAID THE UN WASN'T READY TO BE IN CHARGE THEN WE, THE UN DID IN FACT UH, TAKE OVER BUT ALL THE PEOPLE THAT WERE THE COMMANDERS WERE AMERICANS AND SO THE WHOLE THING IN TERMS OF THE COMMAND STRUCTURE GOT VERY CONFUSED UH, I THINK THAT UH, WE NEVER COULD PROPERLY EXPLAIN WHAT THE NATIONAL INTEREST WAS AND WHEN THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS WERE DRAGGED THROUGH THE STREETS IT WAS VERY HARD TO EXPLAIN IT AND UH, THE COMBINATION OF WHAT WAS GOING ON IN BOSNIA THE LACK OF COMMAND STRUCTURE AND THE HORRENDOUS PICTURE UH, I THINK MADE IT NECESSARY FOR US TO PULL OUT BUT IT HAD VERY...

I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT IT HAD VERY LONG TERM EFFECTS UH, WE THEN WERE UNCLEAR ABOUT WHAT TO DO IN RWANDA WHICH HAPPENED A FEW MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD WELL, IT WAS ALL KIND OF SIMULTANEOUS AND UH, BUT IN THE END I THINK WE LEARNED A LOT OF LESSONS AND UH WE GOT KOSOVO RIGHT WELL, BUT IT DID HAVE AN IMPACT ON RWANDA WHAT DOES THAT GENOCIDE REPRESENT TO YOU IN YOUR UN TERM AND EXPERIENCES I THINK IT WAS UH, A TRAGEDY AND SOMETHING THAT NEVER SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED AND I HAVE GONE OVER THIS IN MY MIND MANY, MANY TIMES I WAS, AS YOU WELL KNOW, AN INSTRUCTED AMBASSADOR WHICH MEANS YOU GET YOUR INSTRUCTIONS FROM WASHINGTON AND MY INSTRUCTIONS WERE UH, THAT WE SHOULD NOT SUPPORT A FORCE IN UH, RWANDA AND I HATED MY INSTRUCTIONS SCREAMED ABOUT THEM WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING I DID TOO OFTEN I GOT THEM CHANGED BUT NOT ENOUGH IN ORDER TO GET FORCES IN THERE, BUT HAVING SAID ALL THAT IF ONE LOOKS AT THE RECORD OF IT I ACTUALLY THINK THAT WE COULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN FORCES THERE IN TIME TO STOP WHAT WAS A VOLCANIC EXPLOSION OF GENOCIDE BUT I WISH WE'D TRIED HARDER UH, BUT WHEREAS I THINK UH, THE UN GETS BLAMED FOR SOMALIA BUT IN MANY RESPECTS IT WAS A U.S.

PROBLEM UH, THE U.S. GETS BLAMED FOR RWANDA AND IN MANY WAYS, IT WAS A UN PROBLEM BECAUSE UH, THE UN COULD NOT HAVE GOTTEN UH, FORCES THERE IN TIME TO DO SOMETHING AND BOUTROS-GHALI WAS NOT ABLE TO UH PROVIDE THE RIGHT OPTIONS BOSNIA, AS WE TICK OFF THE LIST HERE WITH TIME REMAINING BOSNIA, THIS HAD TO BE PRETTY AMAZING FOR YOU CONSIDERING YOUR HISTORY IN EUROPE BOSNIA, PEOPLE BEING BOMBED IN EUROPE THERE WERE "ETHNIC CLEANSING" GOING ON DID YOU HAVE TO FIGHT...?

YOU DID HAVE TO FIGHT INSTRUCTIONS THEN WHAT WAS THE POLICY?

AGAIN, YOU WERE AT THE UN AND YOU'RE WAITING WHEN ARE THEY GOING TO DO SOMETHING?

PICTURES ARE COMING OUT MARKET BOMBINGS EVERYBODY SAYS YOU'RE LIKE A HAWK AND YOU'RE WONDERING WHAT'S GOING ON WELL, THE PART ABOUT IT I SAID...

I'D GO BACK TO MEETINGS IN WASHINGTON AND SAY YOU KNOW, I SEE MORE...

DIFFERENT FOREIGNERS EVERY HOUR THAN ANYBODY ELSE IN THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT I MEAN THE AMBASSADOR TO FRANCE SEES MORE FRENCH PEOPLE BUT I SAW MORE OF EVERYBODY AND I REALIZED THAT WE WERE IN A UNTENABLE POSITION UH, ESPECIALLY WHEN EVERY DAY THERE WERE REPORTS ABOUT UH, MORE ETHNIC CLEANSING AND PEOPLE WERE WONDERING WHAT THE THE U.S WAS GOING TO DO UH, I THINK THE, THE MAJOR ISSUE AND AND UH, WAS THE WHOLE MASSACRE IN ?

?

?SCHREBENZIA AND I WAS ABLE TO GET DECLASSIFIED PHOTOGRAPHS OF WHAT HAD HAPPENED UH, AND SHOW THAT THERE WERE UH, KILLINGS AND I THINK WE CHANGED THE POLICY DID THE U.S. WINK AND SAY, LOOK, THAT CAN HAPPEN... THAT'S WHAT YOU HEARD IN VARIOUS CIRCLES THAT PEOPLE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN THAT THE SERBS WERE GOING TO TRAMPLE OVER THIS WEAK, UH DUTCH BRIGADE THERE AND JUST... YOU NEEDED A REASON TO GET PEOPLE TOGETHER UNIFIED SO THAT YOU CAN START... NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT I, I... THAT DID NOT HAPPEN UH, BUT I THINK THAT UH, ORIGINALLY THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW, WHY WEREN'T THE EUROPEANS TAKING CARE OF BOSNIA UH, THERE, AGAIN, I THINK THE VERY HARD PART THAT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER IS THAT IT WAS HARD TO PERSUADE THE AMERICAN PEOPLE GENERALLY ABOUT WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE OF AMERICAN INVOLVEMENT WHETHER IT WAS IN SOMALIA OR BOSNIA THEY WERE NOT VIEWED AS DIRECT NATIONAL INTEREST I HAPPENED TO HAVE BELIEVED THAT U.S. NATIONAL INTEREST IS THAT WE DON'T LIKE TO SEE PEOPLE ETHNICALLY CLEANSED OR STARVING OR UH, FIGHTING UH, YOU KNOW, BEING EXTERMINATED FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER AND SO UH, I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS IN OUR NATIONAL INTEREST TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND I...

IN THE END WE DID AND WE WON AT THE UN, WHICH IS A VERY UNIQUE PLACE LET ME UH, TELL YOU I MEAN THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF...

IT'S ONE OF THE IT'S STR- IT'S A VERY INTERESTING PLACE I MEAN PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND THE UN PEOPLE ARE ALSO TRYING TO CHANGE THE UN REFORM THE UN, YOU HEAR THAT FOR YEARS IF YOU HAD TO CHANGE SOMETHING OR MAKE SOME DECISION NOW HOW WOULD YOU IMPROVE THE UNITED NATIONS?

MANY WAYS, I MEAN I AM VERY MUCH PRO UN BUT IT IS A FLAWED ORGANIZATION IN, IN MANY WAYS ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS IS THE SECURITY COUNCIL UH, WHICH DOES NOT PROPERLY REPRESENT UH, THE POWER STRUCTURE OF THE WORLD AND AS YOU KNOW, WE TRIED TO REFORM THE SECURITY COUNCIL EXPAND IT AND GET GERMANY AND JAPAN TO BE PERMANENT MEMBERS NOW, JUST TO SHOW YOU HOW LUDICROUS SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS ARE THE MINUTE WE SUGGESTED THAT THE ITALIAN AMBASSADOR CAME TO ME AND SAID "WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

"YOU CAN'T HAVE GERMANY AND JAPAN ON AS PERMANENT MEMBERS WE LOST THE WAR, TOO."

WHICH IS KIND OF A STRANGE ARGUMENT (Audience laughing) THEN, IF YOU LOOK AT THE COMPOSITION OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL THERE ARE 15 MEMBERS ON IT AT ANY GIVEN TIME, THERE ARE FIVE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ON IT SO UH, I WOULD GO TO ONE OF THE EUROPEAN AMBASSADORS AND SAY I NEED YOUR HELP ON WHATEVER PROBLEM AND UH, HE, IT WAS ALWAYS A HE WOULD SAY "UH, CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE, UH WE DON'T YET HAVE A UH, COMMON EUROPEAN POSITION."

AND I UNDERSTOOD THAT SO TWO DAYS LATER I'D GO BACK AND I'D SAY "SO NOW CAN I HAVE YOUR HELP?"

AND HE'D SAY, "NO, BECAUSE WE HAVE A COMMON EUROPEAN POSITION" SO I THINK THAT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN SHOULD HAPPEN IS IF THEY HAVE A COMMON POSITION THEY SHOULD HAVE ONE SEAT BUT CAN YOU VISUALIZE THE BRITISH AND FRENCH GIVING UP THEIR VETO SO IT'S KIND OF LIKE A RUBICK'S CUBE ISSUE I'VE JUST COME FROM INDIA INDIA SHOULD BE A PERMANENT MEMBER OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL IT'S THE WORLD'S LARGEST DEMOCRACY BUT WHAT WOULD THEY DAY NEXT DOOR IN PAKISTAN?

THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM SO I THINK THAT WHILE I SEE REFORM UH, IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS HARD TO COME ABOUT AND THE U.S. HAS BEEN IN A HARD POSITION BECAUSE WHEN I WAS THERE, AS YOU REMEMBER WE HAD NOT PAID OUR BILLS AND UH, IT'S A LITTLE HARD TO PUSH PEOPLE AROUND WHEN YOU OWE THEM A LOT OF MONEY AND UH, AND IT FINALLY CAME TO THE FACT THAT OUR BEST FRIENDS-- THE BRITISH GOT OFF A LINE THEY HAVE BEEN WAITING 200 YEARS TO SAY WHICH WAS úREPRESENTATION WITHOUT TAXATION' (Audience laughing) (Audience applauding) I SHOULD PAY TRIBUTE NOW BECAUSE I BELIEVE THE UH, SECRETARY OF STATE COINED THE PHRASE, WHEN I FIRST ARRIVED THAT úCNN IS THE 16th MEMBER OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL' CORRECT BUT I HAD A PROBLEM BECAUSE I WOULD CONSTANTLY TRY TO GET INTO THE HALL AND THE AMBASSADOR FROM HONDURAS WOULD NEVER GIVE UP HIS SEAT (Audience laughing) UH, AND THAT CAUSED A LOT OF PROBLEMS UH, THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT TEN OR 11 WOMEN AMBASSADORS AT THE UN UH... LESS WHEN I WAS AROUND OUTRAGEOUS OR...?

WELL, WHAT HAPPENED, IT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE I FELT WHEN I GOT THERE, THERE WERE 183 COUNTRIES AND I THOUGHT I SHOULD GET TOGETHER THE WOMEN AMBASSADORS AND IT BEING ONE OF THE FIRST TIMES THAT I DIDN'T HAVE TO FIX LUNCH MYSELF I ASKED MY ASSISTANT TO PLEASE INVITE THE AMBASSADORS I WENT TO MY APARTMENT THINKING THERE'D BE QUITE A FEW PEOPLE THERE I...

THERE WERE SIX OTHER WOMEN THERE AND THEY REPRESENTED CANADA, THE PHILIPPINES KAZAKHSTAN, TRINIDAD, TOBAGO, JAMAICA AND LIECHTENSTEIN AND ME UH, SO BEING AN AMERICAN, I FORMED A GROUP UH, AND WE CALLED IT... (Audience laughing) WE CALLED OURSELVES THE "G-7" UH (Audience laughing) AND UH, WE WERE VERY POWERFUL, WE HAD SAID TO EACH OTHER THAT WE WOULD ALWAYS TAKE EACH OTHER'S PHONE CALLS NO MATTER WHAT WHICH KIND OF IRRITATED SOME OF THE MALE AMBASSADORS THAT I WOULD TAKE A CALL FROM LIECHTENSTEIN AND I SAID THERE WAS A SIMPLE SOLUTION TO THIS ISSUE UH, THAT HE COULD HAVE HIMSELF REPLACED, UH WHICH DIDN'T RAISE THE DIDN'T RAISE THE QUESTION TOO MUCH MORE AFTER THAT THAT WAS VERY INTERESTING THAT YOU READ THAT LIST OF THOSE ATTENDING BUT I UH, HAVE IT ON GOOD INFORMATION IN YOUR BOOK THAT IN 1955 YOU WERE ABLE TO RECITE THESE 60 UN MEMBER COUNTRIES IN ALPHABETICAL ORDER CAN YOU STILL DO THAT OF THE 191 COUNTRIES THAT ARE...

I ABSOLUTELY CAN NOT UH, AND UH, IT'S A, IT'S... WOULD BE...

GIVEN MY ADVANCED AGE, I COULDN'T DO IT AND UH, I THINK IT WOULD BE HARD, AND UH BUT I USED TO SIT THERE AND WHEN THE NAMES ALL WOULD GO UP ON THE BOARD UH, I WOULD BE CHECK OFF THE COUNTRIES THAT I HAD GONE TO AND I DID, HAVE GONE TO 120 COUNTRIES ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GOING TO GO ALMOST INTO A TELEVISION LIGHTNING ROUND, HERE AS TIME NEARS, UH BOUTROS BOUTROS-GHALI YOU MENTIONED IN THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UN THE ACCUSATION WAS MADE THAT YOU GOT RID OF HIM FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES TO BECOME SECRETARY OF STATE WHICH HAPPENED LATER I HAVE EXTREME DOUBTS ABOUT THAT BUT WHY WAS HE NOT WORTHY OF A SECOND TERM AND WHAT DID YOU SEE IN KOFI ANNAN UH, THE MAN FROM GHANA TO WARRANT BACKING HIM?

WELL, FIRST OF ALL, THE THING THAT HAPPENED WAS BOUTROS-GHALI ORIGINALLY WAS A COMPROMISE CANDIDATE AND AN AGREEMENT THAT HE MADE AT THE TIME WAS THAT HE WOULD SERVE ONE TERM HE UH, AS MANY PEOPLE WE KNOW, DECIDED THAT UH, THE MINUTE HE GOT IN HE WANTED ANOTHER TERM SO UH, HE THEN, UH, IMMEDIATELY STARTED CAMPAIGNING AND I UH, SPENT A LOT OF TIME WITH BOUTROS-GHALI BECAUSE I THOUGHT HE WAS A VERY SMART MAN BUT I THINK HE DID NOT PRESENT A GOOD IMAGE OF THE UNITED NATIONS UH, UH, HE DID NOT COULD NOT EXPLAIN THE UN VERY WELL LIKE I THOUGHT HE UH, WAS UH ELITIST ABOUT A LOT OF ISSUES I THOUGHT HE HAD MISHANDLED A LOT OF ISSUES BESIDES, THIS WAS NOT THE DEAL UH, BUT I SAW HIM ALL THE TIME I HAD SOME PRETTY PECULIAR EXPERIENCES WITH HIM THERE WAS ONE DINNER I WENT TO AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, MADELEINE "I'VE JUST SEEN A NIGERIAN SEER "AND THE SEER SAID THERE IS A WOMAN "SHE WILL BETRAY YOU HE WENT LIKE THIS "THERE IS A WOMAN "SHE WILL BETRAY YOU HER NAME IS MADELEINE."

(Audience laughing) SO I DID (Audience laughing) (Audience applauding) BUT I, I DO THINK THAT KOFI ANNAN IS UH, A TRULY...

I, I KNEW HIM THEN I THOUGHT HE WAS A REMARKABLE PUBLIC SERVANT UH, AND SOMEBODY WHO HAD A DEEP KNOWLEDGE OF HOW THE UN SHOULD WORK AND REFORM I MEAN ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH BOUTROS-GHALI WAS THAT HE DID NOT WANT TO CHANGE THINGS BUT UH, KOFI ANNAN DOES SEE IT AND IF YOU... YOU KNOW, HE GAVE A GREAT SPEECH AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY JUST NOW HAS REALLY PRESENTED A CHALLENGE TO THE COUNTRIES TO REFORM THE UN AND THAT TO ME IS EXACTLY WHY HE'S A GREAT SECRETARY GENERAL A FEW DAYS LATER YOU BECAME SECRETARY OF STATE WAS THIS A SHOCK?

HOW HARD DID YOU WORK IT?

AND HOW DID YOU GET ALONG WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON?

WHICH WE'LL TALK ABOUT IN A MOMENT UH, WELL YOU MEAN HOW HARD DID I WORK TO GET SECRETARY OF STATE?

WELL, UH, LET ME SAY THIS IT NEVER IN MY LIFE OCCURRED TO ME THAT I COULD BE SECRETARY OF STATE UH, I'D NEVER SEEN A SECRETARY OF STATE IN A SKIRT UH, AND I HAD...

I DON'T THINK I WOULD WANT TO IN THE PAST ANY OF THOSE GUYS... CORDELL HALL, I MEAN, NO NO BUT I, I TRULY...

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO THINK I PLANNED IT FROM THE DAY I WAS BORN BUT I REALLY DIDN'T I... DID OBVIOUSLY WANT TO BE IN THE GOVERNMENT AND UH, I HAD ACTUALLY THOUGHT THAT IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE TO BE DEPUTY SECRETARY UH, AND INSTEAD THEY MADE ME AMBASSADOR TO THE UN WHICH ACTUALLY TURNED OUT TO BE A BETTER JOB BUT I... PEOPLE...

THERE WAS A PERIOD, IF YOU'LL REMEMBER THAT WARREN CHRISTOPHER SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO RESIGN HE THEN DIDN'T, BUT IN THAT PERIOD CERTAIN PEOPLE CAME TO ME AND SAID THAT I COULD BE SECRETARY OF STATE I, I DIDN'T THINK, STILL DIDN'T THINK IT WAS POSSIBLE UH, AND UH, THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF COMPETITION I DID NOT BELIEVE IT UNTIL PRESIDENT CLINTON CALLED ME AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT I WAS IN NEW YORK WHEN ERSKINE BOWLES, THE CHIEF OF STAFF CALLED AND HE SAID, úIF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WERE TO CALL YOU TOMORROW MORNING WOULD YOU TAKE THE CALL?

AND IF HE WERE TO ASK YOU TO BE SECRETARY OF STATE WOULD YOU SAY "YES"?

AND I THOUGHT WHO IN GOD'S NAME WOULD SAY "NO" TO EITHER OF THOSE QUESTIONS AND UH, SO I SAID "YES" HE SAID, WELL, GO TO WASHINGTON AND THE PRESIDENT WILL CALL YOU EARLY IN THE MORNING SO I RUSHED TO WASHINGTON AND GOT UP EARLY AND WAS AFRAID TO TAKE A BATH (Audience laughing) FORGETTING THAT I WAS DEALING WITH PRESIDENT CLINTON WHO DIDN'T GET UP EARLY AND SO I SAT AND I WAITED AND WAITED AND AT 9:47 UH, THE PHONE RANG AND THE WHITE HOUSE OPERATOR SAID "HOLD FOR THE PRESIDENT" AND THEN THEY PUT ON SOME HORRIBLE MUSIC AND I... "HAIL TO THE CHIEF"... NO NO AND I THOUGHT, "HE'S CHANGED HIS MIND "HE'S DEFINITELY CHANGED HIS MIND AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET ON THE PHONE TO TELL ME" AND FINALLY HE GETS ON AND HE SAID "I WANT YOU TO BE MY SECRETARY OF STATE" AND THAT'S WHEN I BELIEVED IT YOU NEVER HAVE A ARGUMENT OR DEBATE WITH HIM IN THIS BOOK, WHEN YOU SAY HISTORY IS WRITTEN I MEAN THIS IS YOUR VERSION OF WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU BUT THERE'S NEVER A MOMENT IN HERE WHERE THE PRESIDENT DISAGREES WITH YOU WAS IT ALL THAT SMOOTH AND CLEAR IN ALL OF THESE DEBATES HE ALWAYS...

WHETHER IT'S KOSOVO OR BOSNIA SAID, "MADELEINE, YOU'RE RIGHT I WANT TO FOLLOW MADELEINE'S LINE."

WELL, I WROTE ABOUT THE ISSUES ON WHICH HE AGREED WITH ME (Audience laughing) UH, NO, I THINK ACTUALLY UH, I THINK THE REASON THAT I WAS SECRETARY OF STATE AND ACTUALLY HILLARY WRITES ABOUT THIS IN HER BOOK IS THAT UH, THE PRESIDENT AND I SAW FOREIGN POLICY IN VERY MUCH THE SAME WAY AND HE WANTED TO SEE AMERICA ENGAGED UH, HE BELIEVED IN ALLIANCE STRUCTURES HE BELIEVED IN UH, THE USE OF DIPLOMACY UH, AND THE ABILITY TO SEE UH, A MULTI-DIMENSIONAL FOREIGN POLICY THAT CARED ABOUT HEALTH AND GLOBAL WARMING AND UH, TRADE ISSUES AND WE JUST DID HAPPEN TO AGREE AND UH THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT... AND I DO TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE CABINET MEETINGS THAT WE HAD OVER KOSOVO WHERE THE THING THAT PRESIDENT CLINTON LIKED WAS TO HAVE US...

THE PRINCIPLE'S GROUP THAT WAS SECRETARY OF STATE AND DEFENSE AND CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS AND AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR HAVE ARGUMENTS IN FRONT OF HIM SO THAT HE COULD ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS AND SEE THE DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW AND UH, AS SECRETARY I WOULD ALWAYS PUT SOMETHING ON THE TABLE THEN THE OTHERS WOULD DISAGREE WITH ME AND I'D THINK, "OH, MY GOD, I'VE SCREWED THAT UP" AND THEN IN THE END, THE PRESIDENT WOULD SAY "I AGREE WITH THE WAY MADELEINE HAS STATED IT," SO I THINK WE REALLY DID AGREE ON A LOT OF ISSUES ALL RIGHT, TIME IS RUNNING SHORT BUT THERE'S ONE ISSUE THAT CAME UP MONICA LEWINSKY DON'T HOLD...

I DON'T EVEN THINK THERE'S ONE MAN OUT THERE I GOT TO FIND A... WHAT...

THIS IS A PRESIDENT WHO IN THE CABINET MEETING SAID TO YOU úTHERE'S NOTHING TO THE STORY' AND IT WENT ON AND ON FOR MONTHS AND YOU WENT OUTSIDE TO DOZENS OF CAMERAS WITH DONNA ?

?

?SHALEILAH AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE CABINET BACKING HIM AND SAYING THERE'S NOTHING TO THIS I SECOND THAT, I THIRD THIS HOW LET DOWN, HOW SCORNED DID YOU FEEL THERE DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE MUCH ANGER HERE WOULDN'T...

SOME THOUGHT THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE RESIGNED OR OTHER PEOPLE BASED UPON THE MONTHS THAT THE COUNTRY WENT THROUGH AS YOU NOTE IN THE BOOK, THE COVER-UP IS WORSE THAN THE CRIME WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAID THAT NOTHING HAD HAPPENED IN THE CABINET MEETING, I BELIEVED HIM AND I HAD NO PROBLEM GOING OUT AND SAYING THAT I BELIEVED HIM AND THAT WE HAD ALL BEEN...

HE HAD BEEN ELECTED AND WE HAD BEEN APPOINTED TO DO OUR JOBS UH, AND I PROCEEDED TO DO MY JOB AND I CAN HONESTLY SAY THAT AS FAR AS FOREIGN POLICY WAS CONCERNED UH, MY JOB WAS IN NO WAY AFFECTED BY UH, THE WHOLE EPISODE AND THAT UH, IN FACT THE FOREIGNERS THOUGHT WE WERE CRAZY I THINK YOU WERE PROBABLY THERE WHEN PRESIDENT CLINTON SPOKE TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HE GOT A STANDING OVATION WHICH DOESN'T HAPPEN FOR ANYBODY EXCEPT NELSON MANDELLA THAT WAS ON THE SAME MOMENT THAT HIS VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION WAS PLAYING OUT...

RIGHT AND I, AND SO UH... AND UH WE HAD ALL OF US THAT WERE INVOLVED WITH NATIONAL SECURITY ISSUES WERE ALWAYS ABLE TO HAVE WHATEVER MEETINGS WITH HIM HE WAS COMPLETELY FOCUSED I MEAN, YOU KNOW, HE IS... SOMEBODY...

THE WORD ALWAYS USED ABOUT HIM IS THAT HE'S ABLE TO COMPARTMENTALIZE I WRITE ABOUT THE MIDDLE EAST TALKS THAT WE HAD AT Y WHICH WERE TAKING PLACE IN OCTOBER OF '98 HE SAT THROUGH THE WHOLE THING HAD MORE IDEAS PER MINUTE THAN ANYBODY ELSE ORGANIZED EVERYTHING AND WAS COMPLETELY FOCUSED ON WHAT HE WAS DOING SO I HAD NO COMPLAINTS ABOUT HOW OUR FOREIGN POLICY WAS BEING CARRIED OUT IT WAS...

FRANKLY I DID NOT CONSIDER IT A PERSONAL BETRAYAL I THINK THAT WAS HIS FAMILY'S ISSUE, NOT MINE I WAS SECRETARY OF STATE AND UH, WHILE I THINK, UH I DESCRIBE WHAT WAS A COMPLETELY BIZARRE MEETING WHICH IS WHEN HE SO-CALLED APOLOGIZED TO THE CABINET WHICH I THOUGHT WAS A VERY WEIRD MEETING AND I SPOKE, I HAD WAS THE FIRST ONE TO SPEAK BUT UH, I WAS NOT, I DID NOT FEEL PERSONALLY BETRAYED I THINK HE DID A GENUINELY STUPID THING UH, A WRONG THING BUT I THINK HE WAS A GREAT PRESIDENT WHO SERVED THIS COUNTRY VERY WELL AND WHO HAD A BRILLIANT FOREIGN POLICY (Audience applauding) THERE'S SO MUCH LEFT AND WE HAVE VERY LITTLE TIME, UH (Audience applauding) 9/11 HAS CHANGED SO MUCH, UH AND WE HAVE... SADDAM HUSSEIN NOW IS IN CUSTODY AND OSAMA BIN LADEN IS STILL... WHAT DO YOU... IS THE WORLD HEADED FOR A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS WHAT IS PRESIDENT BUSH DOING RIGHT AND WRONG ON IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN?

AND IN A, IN A MINUTE, PLEASE, THANK YOU (Audience laughing) UH, I ACTUALLY DON'T BELIEVE IN A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS I THINK THAT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT ISLAM HAS BEEN HIJACKED BY UH, SOME EXTREMISTS UH, AND THAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND ISLAM BETTER AND IT'S MOSTLY A CLASH OF THE CIVILIZED AND THE UNCIVILIZED NOT A CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS UH, I UH, AS I SAID, CONGRATULATE PRESIDENT BUSH FOR UH, THE FACT THAT SADDAM HUSSEIN HAS BEEN CAPTURED BUT I DISAGREE WITH HIS FOREIGN POLICY I THINK THAT UH, I AGREED WITH THE WHY OF THE IRAQ WAR 'CAUSE I SAID THE SAME THINGS ABOUT SADDAM HUSSEIN BUT I DID NOT SEE WHY WE HAD TO DO THE WAR NOW WE HAD HIM IN A STRATEGIC BOX AND I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR PLAN WAS AND I THOUGHT THAT WE NEEDED TO CONCENTRATE MORE ON FIGHTING TERRORISM UH, AND I FULLY AGREED WITH THE PRESIDENT IN WHAT HE DID ON AFGHANISTAN I WISH WE HAD SPENT MORE ENERGY ON AFGHANISTAN AND WERE MORE HELPFUL TO PRESIDENT KARZAI UH, AND THAT WE NEED TO FIGHT TERRORISM AND I'M NOT SURE THAT THE SITUATION IN IRAQ IS RESOLVED, I KNOW IT'S NOT RESOLVED AND I'M GLAD THAT SADDAM IS CAPTURED BUT THERE'S STILL AN AWFUL LOT OF QUESTIONS WHEN PRESIDENT BUSH SAYS úYOU'RE EITHER WITH US OR AGAINST US' THAT TYPE OF TALK DOES THAT PLAY WELL WITH YOU AND DO YOU THINK IT HELPS THE CAUSE FOR GLOBAL PEACE?

I, I DON'T THINK IT DOES I MEAN LIFE DOESN'T COME IN WITH YOU AGAINST YOU KIND OF THING AS YOU KNOW IN DIPLOMACY THERE ARE A WHOLE LOT OF GRAY AREAS COUNTRIES DON'T LIKE TO BE LINED UP IN THAT PARTICULAR WAY I THINK THE AXIS OF EVIL WAS A COUNTERPRODUCTIVE STATEMENT ALL THREE OF THOSE COUNTRIES ARE TERRIBLE BUT THEY DON'T NECESSARILY CREATE AN AXIS AND I'VE BEEN ABROAD, I JUST CAME BACK FROM INDIA BUT I'D BEEN TO EUROPE FOR THE LAST, UH IN THE LAST TWO MONTHS AND I THINK THINGS ARE AS BAD AS I'VE SEEN THEM IT'S UNFORTUNATE I THINK THE EUROPEANS ARE AT FAULT, ALSO UH, BUT I BELIEVE, I SO BELIEVE IN THE GOODNESS OF AMERICAN POWER I AM THE PROUDEST AMERICAN THAT YOU'RE GOING TO RUN INTO AND I AM...

MAINLY I THINK 'CAUSE I WASN'T BORN HERE AND I JUST AM SO GRATEFUL TO THIS COUNTRY BUT WE CAN NOT SHOW OUR POWER ONLY THROUGH THE MILITARY PRISM OUR POWER IS IN OUR IDEAS AND OUR IDEALS AND OUR VALUES AND OUR ABILITY TO HELP PEOPLE AND I HATE THE FACT THAT AT THIS MOMENT AMERICA IS FEARED IT IS FINE TO HAVE AMERICA FEARED BY OUR ENEMIES BUT TO BE FEARED BY OUR FRIENDS IS NOT THE WAY THAT I SEE AMERICA ACTING IN THE 21st CENTURY (Audience applauding) MADELEINE ALBRIGHT (Audience applauding) MOTHER, PROFESSOR, ACTIVIST AMBASSADOR SECRETARY OF STATE JEWISH ALSO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE AT THE KENTUCKY AUTHOR'S FORUM THANK YOU (Audience applauding) THANKS, RICHARD (Audience applauding) THANK YOU (Audience applauding) [Closed captioning by the KET Caption Center] [was made possible by a grant] [from the Honorable Order of Kentucky Colonels] [and in part by a grant from The Lexington Lions Club] [and a gift from the Lloyd E. Rigler-Lawrence E. Deutsch Foundation]