>> Sarah Mak is the master of reinvention, a calculated risk taker.

Social entrepreneur, civic engagement later from running a nonprofit to serving up meals that feed the soul to real estate and helping refugees and immigrants.

Sarah met gives us a masterclass and creating and recreating our next chapter will talk to her right now on connections.

♪ ♪ ♪ Thank you so much for joining me for connections today.

I'm Renee Shaw.

As we close out this conversation series that I started back in 20, 0, 5, I'm dedicating the last couple of episodes to women who've appeared a few times and become more than guests to be interviewed, but they have become friends who inspire me.

Sarah Mak as one of them in the last few years.

She's talked with us about her work combating sexual assault, becoming a social entrepreneur and restaurateur and racial violence against Asian Americans.

It's what we talk about off camera, though, that personally fortifies me and I'm glad to get some screen time with her as she has new ventures to share in the space of civic engagement.

>> And maybe even a resurrection of her noodle It's so good to see a high.

Rene, thank you so much for having me.

Good to see you, too.

Yeah, it's it's you are just like and >> you have done all kinds of things.

And and and just off topic, you're good.

At the time we recorded the conversation, you're sharing with me that you're going to be giving a keynote address at your alma mater, the head at a function there.

And the interesting thing is that, you know, yeah, I think you think that perhaps when they ask you do this, why would they have you who's kind of gone off on divergent past?

Talk about career opportunities.

When you've always looked for new ventures right?

So I mean, as we are starting this and have become really entrenched in our work on the next chapter as we age like.

How do we get to where you are and being such a risk taker when some of us may be risk averse.

Renee, the funny thing is I have always been risk averse.

I've always played by the rules.

Yeah.

I've learned sometimes, you know, when I was in my early 20's, I.

>> I was married by my first marriage.

I was like I'm going to play by the rules meant to get married.

My house and I have kids.

Yeah.

And it didn't work out.

Have like a 10 year plan, you know?

And it didn't work out.

And then if it occurred to me that some things are out of our control that I just have to do the best that we can.

And we really have to look for silver linings opportunities situations where we can see yourselves moving forward and that might not fit the image that we had over selves higher.

Yeah, but I really was risk averse and I I do not feel risky at all.

Now it's just like I'm just going full fledged living basically what it is.

I do feel like when I'm doing something that it's so scary and risky, although so many things like starting a business.

Yeah, really is.

But I just do it because it's the opportunity that's in front of me that I have see that it could be a good thing.

>> But she I remember when you open Uber, Nevada and you and Adam, you're has been like you are making furniture and you could gotten a different vehicle like a truck.

Rosie the Riveter.

what you are really?

We re modifying.

Yeah, your lifestyle because you're starting this new venture.

A lot of people.

And, you know, when you were at that time, you're wet.

Late 30's early for 9 was already known.

I was in my 40 win.

Yeah.

For the same base times was.

Yeah, yeah.

But you know, I mean, a lot of people would be like, what like?

I've got my retirement account.

Where make in a good solid living?

Listen.

Don't ask Adam about that.

Haha.

>> And I mean, mistakes were made, but that truly at the time and Stilton extent.

Now, though, I'm a little bit more careful.

>> Because I am nearing the yeah.

But at the time truly, I was like, you know, we have one life.

We have these skills or whatever gifts that were given to us.

And it is my I really believe Renee, that is just my duty to be able to use those and make an impact in whatever way, you know.

And that's at the time.

I really didn't think much about my family in college for my kid all the time.

And I'm just like this is what needs to happen.

Yeah, I'm a little bit more thoughtful now.

>> Yeah, but it was successful.

It was.

It was while while while it was there, what we we're and in honor of honor for 7 and prior to COVID for 5, it was it was really lovely day at heart after and you have given more than $200,000 to $4 off its seen, right?

Not just me is made the customer.

That's right.

The workers that the fact that that was the part of the business model.

Yeah.

Like when you walked in and it was like the story of Noodle Nirvana, that was central to what social entrepreneur really did.

Define what you were trying to do.

Not just I mean, recording a running a restaurant.

I don't think our wide profit margins anyway and less on major scale.

You know, franchisee kind of thing.

But I was really hoping to like show small business owners that it was possible.

Yeah, to be able to take care of your family and also significantly contribute to your community.

And for a while it works.

But COVID changed everything.

You know, the cost of goods cost of labor or just the culture of eating out.

>> But that's what I was hoping is to say, look, I could do it.

Let me open my books and show you and let's all do our little part so that we can make nonprofits more sustained.

All right.

>> Is there a resurgence of middle Nirvana and some way?

>> I don't know.

Restaurant life is hard.

I have such admiration for anybody that that that does that.

So I don't I think that that is going to happen.

However, so many customers have been asking for my mom's recipes and we were trying to find good, respectable way to honor her and the recipes in the story of non Alana.

So we did do a kick starter for a and it is in the midst of it being complete right now are getting ready to send it to publishers.

We had 500 preorders.

>> That's awesome.

That was amazing.

Yeah.

And these are all mama matters is what we call our Most of them are but all of them aren't in honor of honor.

Like if you be there, every recipe that we've ever tried their every drink and appetizer.

It's in that book.

Interesting.

So, you know, recently I talked to Crystal Wilkinson, who's you're a song for the kitchen goes, but which is really like a family memoir.

I mean, it's more than just about food, pathways foodways.

It's really >> about the bonding that food creates for a Is that what we can expect from you?

Some of that kind of Diana Dole storyteller not know.

This is a straight up recipe However, I have been talking a publisher.

>> Who is really interested in exactly what you're saying more about the relationship that food has played in my family and my relationship with my mother and my culture and how my grandmother sort of inspired us ball.

>> And more along that storytelling.

So I'm not sure that I can pull that off or if I have it in me for But it might be an interesting project and was on a mas to your mother.

You know, I mean, talk about family legacy and >> for your children do for your child to, you know, important to us to have for your own heirloom.

That's right.

Yes, yeah.

You can see that.

I just remember reading and talking to you after, you know, when you close it on our van alike and even on your Facebook post, he would share not the relief, but like I have a life again, bang, right?

Like you're able to do 3, staying Abby's and who you are.

And so that made me think about when you get to a certain age and we are women of a certain age where you think about what am I spending my time doing and how do I create the life?

I want to live and do we even know what that is?

do we give ourselves enough time?

>> To reflect on that.

We were just talking about that earlier.

Like enough stillness to even reflect on that as well as going.

Yeah.

>> And so now you're doing the New Americans initiative.

Yes, right.

And and I know this is very dear to you.

Tell us about that and how that came to be.

Yes, it's very new still.

when I closed down in honor of Ana and I made a Facebook post that said, you know, we're closing down and my dear friend and a mentor to me, Representative Nima Kulkarni.

>> help me campaign whenever I ran for office before in the past, she called me and she said, listen, I have this nonprofit is on the verge of getting off the ground.

Will you come and be my operations director friend and I was like, do you even have to ask Yeah.

And I just have so much respect for this woman and her contributions to our state.

And this is a nonprofit that she has kind of been working on for a while now, but it than formalizes.

It had paid staff.

And what New Americans initiative does is it empowers civic engagement and refugee and immigrant communities in Kentucky and basically what that means we want to engage that community in the political process I'm being more aware of the issues that impact them and having them be involved in like driving those issues, right was kind of like a 3 program where the first step is if we want people to be engaged politically, they need to have the right to vote.

So we're going to be having naturalization that we're going to be sponsoring in the state.

And then the second things is voter empowerment, voter registration and then the 3rd phase, we hope to, you know, actually support provide tools and chaining for candidates who want to run for office such name herself and like we Vice-mayor Lexington, Dan as well as an immigrant who holds a political office.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah.

We're super excited.

>> Well, in a time when sometimes the conversations around refugees and immigrants can be very polarizing.

You how do you see this institute fitting into that conversation?

I haven't you know, again, it's fairly new.

I've been on board just since October in full-time since January.

>> I haven't met any of that any time.

I've talked about the across political lines, people have been have have expressed enthusiasm about it and like it was a positive thing.

Of course, we want people to be engaged with the pollen, right?

A political process, right?

And even the Republican secretary of state Michael Adams and we when he's been on this program and other times, we talked about the naturalization services.

>> Right?

They secretaries of state do and they are wide and they are so moving and so emotional which you don't go into it, thinking that you're just an observer and that even a journalistic lane, you're trying to a different perspective, but you can't help but just be overcome by the the joy of that.

These people are experiencing to in the hard work to get there.

And I think it reminds us that we take things for granted.

You know, I like my parents are immigrants and they went through that process.

>> Like to witness it, I'm like, oh, my gosh, I'm just like living it up here because I was, you know, born and raised here and just take it for granted to see what people go through to to, to cherish this, to belong to this.

It does do something.

It really does.

It really does.

Well, this is is also Asian American Pacific Islander Month and a member a few years ago.

>> There were some tragic incidents where they're worse.

Just a spate of during the month of April and May right.

And you're on a was it was Yeah, the first I think you brought us together had not matter >> What?

You're very welcome.

And and Lou had, you know, who's now the vice mayor in that time, he was saying, I think I'm going to run, as you and starling Buckles.

Yeah.

Stand to talk about like these issues.

>> You know why?

It's almost like the UN for its like the forgotten minority rights.

And and so when you think about this month and how fortunately we're not dealing with those incidents or maybe where they haven't been reported as they have been a few years ago.

What does this month mean to you and symbolize for you?

>> I and Charlene is also involved with the Americans and Ohio.

She's she's part of our committee here.

I think it it.

It gives them an opportunity to pause and reflect.

Sometimes I forget I'm you know, I've had conversations about this lot of times.

We go into rooms and we're like the only person of color.

And we're playing a even though everybody else sees that we're different.

We're just trying really hard to fit in and not stand out and just get the job done.

So what this month us for me is it gives me an opportunity to take sort of reflect on.

How special it is and how much I carry from my heritage and my family background and the ancestors with me.

Every time I walk into that room as the only one to celebrate the stories and journeys of other people and to just like share with people who might not have a lot of knowledge Asian Americans.

And it just right here in Kentucky that we mention as well that are working hard every day to make our communities better.

And a lot of times you're doing it behind the scenes.

So it gives me opportune to push the pause button to celebrate.

That's right.

And I remember I think it damaged and maybe doesn't.

It is now that he's vice mayor is got a lot on his plate.

And Charlie were doing a podcast.

Yes, it was the 4 of yes.

And and so is that still going on?

It we finish the season and we haven't.

>> Recorded another season.

It will.

It will pick up.

But again, we have like a state wrapped in a vice mayor.

Write your lane is raising money for so yeah, a lot of time to do so of the conversation that you did have for the podcast.

What sticks out to you as the most resonating?

We had some amazing guest on the show, but one that's but that sticks out like in my head tremendously.

And I don't even know if that made it on air.

To be honest with you because a lot of times and push the button and we just talk your last night.

One of the most amazing ones is when we talk about our mothers.

>> the journeys that they took to get here.

And of the relationships we have and how every mom is here.

Every mom is in this country try and sort our relationship and how it's evolved.

A lot of times and some of the complexities of our relationships and those >> rolls.

And a mother daughter, mother, son, roles, traditional roles, cultural values.

But it was it was really fun and interesting.

>> I bet it didn't make it to >> because you know those a very personal thing.

Yeah.

One of the first podcast was like where you from?

Yes, right.

And so talk to us about why that question is and that you get asked why he's crazy.

Like 2 things that are asked of us all the time.

That's the first question.

Where are you from?

And it is never sufficient to say.

>> Well, I've lived in Kentucky for 30 years or was born in Chicago.

They will.

They will come back with no now where you really from.

>> And then or like what you mean by that?

And then it depends on the situation.

And if you're in the mood and if you're tired and exhausted from hearing that question a million times or if you just want to help educate somebody.

Yeah, that depends on how we're going to answer it.

Usually I'm, you know, respectful and I'm like, well, I think what you're asking is where my family is from and where, you know, culturally what my heritage is prominent.

I'll tell them families in town from Thailand, but I was born in Chicago so that that is I think that satisfies them.

You typically, yeah, they don't KET Roman.

But another funny question, important comment that I get.

I have a T-shirt.

Haha.

That is I just randomly working in the noodle shop are walking in them are meeting somebody.

>> And they see me and they're like all I have an avid Vietnamese wife.

>> OK?

Yeah, I'm a white husband, Ahmed.

That is so calm and I don't think people know.

And I think they just see you.

And they're like, I really don't know what's going through that as well.

And do you think so?

You know, you are very good in extending grace.

And I think sometimes when you are a minority, you get tired of always trying to go in with your defensive defenses up that you do want to just say, OK?

>> I'm not going mess with with grace with an abundance of grace and and signed a mood.

Yeah.

Well, I hired you are for that's doing it of doing it all day.

But you know, to I think maybe perhaps they're trying to connect connection Texans right there.

You know, yes, and it's really out of ignorance that, you know, that's not the appropriate thing to say.

>> Off the bad.

>> you try to just give them some great.

Do I do try?

Yeah, I or sometimes I just change the topic because I don't really know what to say to that.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Do you think we have?

Are we getting better or worse and conversations like this just like, you know, sometimes you're just annoying me personally or the world a little, you know, both.

>> I thing I see in me.

I think that my threshold.

I think I've reached a point where I sometimes don't feel like it and I don't put myself through it.

I feel like I've reached a point where we're nowadays I choose me over.

Satisfying them are making them comfort, comfortable shoes me more times than not.

Now.

And I'm not mean about it.

I'm just like, you know, I'm just not going to go through this now.

5 2024.

Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I didn't used to be like that before.

If you asked me 10 years ago, but you probably did ask me 10 years ago.

I would be like every opportunity as a learning opportunity to help educate to help make connections.

And I really was there.

But as I get older, I'm like, you know, I just have to protect my own psyche here.

Yeah, a little bit more because as you know, it can be exhausting.

>> Well, and you have a background in psychology and counseling, right?

And so when you think about all the stresses of the world dealing with a child who was preparing to go off to college, which is hard to believe, you know, thinking about your retirement next chapter and just watching the news, like, you know, how how would you advise someone?

Because you are always very thoughtful when you communicate in the social media space is about taking care of yourself and guarding yourself against toxicity in and all of that.

I mean, like how do you but would you say to people who are like, I need a reset on need something?

I feel like it's gotten easier because over the years I've surrounded myself with amazing women like you.

>> And a lot of them are younger than me.

So it's been really great who if somebody asked me to speak about something or 2, be a part of a panel or to serve on a board.

And I know I'm just like early 50's, but I really do feel like I've just done so much of that.

And it's time for certainly younger generation to step in this really not hard now for you to be so hard for me to say, know, like if I don't do it, someone else can take that spot.

And this moisture really needs to be represented by overthink it.

But now, like, you know, thank you so much for asking.

But I met a phase in my life where I really am not in a position to take that on right now.

But let me give you the names of some younger women of color who would be perfect for this role.

And so that makes it easier.

And it's sort if that not only does it make it easier, it's like a gift to be able to do because somebody did that for me before.

That's right.

You know, yeah, that's right.

He did them.

Here's Masr next thing when I was yes, 20 years old.

And so it's it's a gift to be able to do that.

Yeah.

And then when you get to a certain point, you're glad to just kind of give that off.

And, you know, we learned that from another good friend of ours calling Elrich who would say no is a complete said, yes, no, no, thank.

She did.

She did teach me that like I really.

>> You know, we always have carried so much guilt around letting people down and now it's just it feels good to be able to establish a boundary for yourself.

And do you think that COVID also kind of exacerbate ID that like it?

Really?

That was the big reset to say, okay, I don't have to be everywhere all the time.

Even though it still feels like maybe you are.

You are choosing where you want to be and and how you want to represent yourself and your people, cetera.

I had no idea like before COVID that Renee, that like I was just doing all the things I I was you know, all these social things.

And I would never say no to a friends, 40th birthday party or this fundraiser for another friend is a nonprofit director.

And I was just enjoying and doing it.

But then I remember COVID hitting.

I remember feeling relief we can't do.

And I don't have to say no, I don't have to turn people die.

Don't have to let people down.

This is so nice.

And so like you said, I think it was a recent like, you know what?

I think we can be thoughtful a little bit more thoughtful.

About how we want to spend our time.

And of course, if there are friends, they are going to understand that's right now and asked them to.

Well, that's the thing.

I think the jury that your girlfriends and we're all on a chat.

You know, it's like.

>> Sometimes you're just not failed.

That I know, you know, and it's and it's okay that the okay, I can't make this gathering, but I'm going to be in this space at a different time.

>> You know, as you think this chapter of you doing New Americans Institute like what else is there?

Because I you are our multitasker and you really are kind a masterclass of.

Feeding your soul, right?

And being there when it counts.

Yeah.

>> I don't know, Renee, I do.

I do have I no longer have 10 year plans because like they never work out, it feels like, yeah.

but at the speech them giving tomorrow's to a group of career counselors and college and it talks about how to change the mindset of having a set career path to always be looking for opportunities where you can serve or fill in or fill a gap or fix a problem.

And you know where I learned this from most recently, it or not most recently, when my son Jack was and 3rd grade, he was 9 years old.

I was asked to go speak to his class and career day and I sat and they put us in little groups of like 10, 9 year-olds.

And instead of asking them what they want to be when they grow up.

These are 9 year-old Rene, not scripted, not prompted.

I asked them what problems you want to solve in the world.

And Renee, like I get chills reciting this.

You might have seen my person.

It was an amazing like 9 year old.

Yeah.

I want to build about that.

Will never sink.

I want to be able to make our glasses and braces.

I'm gonna cry talking about it.

Yeah.

That don't cost a lot of money.

I want to build homes that cost people $100.

>> Like how do they know and their 9 years old or not?

And and again, not not scripted, not prompted The gap, they saw an opportunity but more importantly, this is what gives me chills at 9 years old.

They saw themselves as the people who could and we can barely do that right now at 50, right?

You know, we don't think it's us, right, right, right.

We don't think we're where they are.

We capable or it's somebody else's.

Yeah.

>> Or our life experience has or enjoy says or whatever life has thrown at us is taking away the passion brokenness to hear that say I love the fact of reframing the crash.

The question, which is something you do very well as that of what do you want to be when you grow up too, what problems do you want to solve this?

Leave them.

They're amazing.

Yeah.

He said I know where it along the way we lose that fire in the belly.

Some somewhere.

You know, I think that having gone to so many graduations, we've had a good friend has gotten her doctorate at drying and.

>> And you think, gosh, in you're in those arenas and you see these young people with just all of this brimming bright future ahead, thinking that's what I would have done differently.

30, 40 years ago, right?

It's hard to tell.

It's hard to tell, but I hope that they're carrying with them.

This is the change I want to may not necessarily the money I want to make right or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

How does your son, how do you see your son?

Is he as he adopting some of your philosophy on this?

Absolutely not.

Renee.

>> he is a very computers.

Probably going to be computer engineer.

Yeah, very risk-averse.

Probably because of what I put.

I think they're right.

But he he he doesn't I really honor this in value.

This he doesn't.

>> The Kuwait, his identity around a career.

Yeah, his future is going to be a job that's going to pay the bills so he can go out live life.

Yeah, that's very respectable to.

>> Yeah.

Where we are, not what we do.

And I heard someone say that our purpose is not connected to what we do.

Our purpose is how we navigate in the world and interact with people and love people.

And so it took me 51 years.

The learned >> I meet him well and I and it's a gift to be able to continuously learn from us.

Manuel and I I'm glad you're my circle.

I'm Andrea and developers, right?

Thank you've inspired me and helped me in so many ways as he.

>> You've been my good thank you for watching.

One of the last episodes of connections.

I will see you next time and we will have Colin L ridge with us here.

Then connect with us.

All the ways you see on your screen until then, take good care.

♪ ♪ ♪