REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM >>LORENE: HELLO, I AM LORENE MILLS AND WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE DO HAVE A FREQUENT FLYER AS OUR GUEST TODAY, MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER, OUR WONDERFUL SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>MAGGIE: THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>LORENE: YOU ARE BACK BECAUSE YOU ARE IN THE NEWS AGAIN.

YOU HAVE BEEN SECRETARY OF STATE SINCE 2016, YOU ARE THE CHIEF ELECTIONS OFFICER FOR THE STATE AND NEW MEXICO IS SO WELL KNOWN FOR ITS ELECTION INTEGRITY, ITS UN-HACKABLE PAPER BALLOTS AND ALL THESE THINGS, BUT, IN THE RECENT PRIMARY, THERE WAS AN EPISODE THAT CAME OUT OF OTERO COUNTY THAT CATAPULTED YOU BACK INTO THE NATIONAL NEWS ON EVERY CHANNEL, ON EVERYTHING.

BUT AS WE KNOW FROM WATCHING THE JANUARY 6 HEARINGS, SO MANY CIVIL SERVANTS AND SO MANY ELECTION OFFICIALS WHO HAVE BEEN HASSLED AND HARASSED SO MUCH HAVE JUST STUCK TO THEIR OATH, DONE THEIR JOB, FOLLOWED THE LAW, ALTHOUGH THERE HAS BEEN EXTREME PRESSURE FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND HIS PEOPLE TO JUST SAY, OH, WE WEREN'T GOING TO REPORT THESE RESULTS.

SO, I WAS GOING TO GO TO YOUR RUMOR VS REALITY, WE WON'T SEE THAT RIGHT NOW.

>>MAGGIE: OKAY.

>>LORENE: ONE THING THAT YOU HAVE ADDED TO YOUR WEBSITE IS A PAGE CALLED "RUMOR VS REALITY" AND IT IS A MISINFORMATION FACT PAGE.

I LOVE IT.

>>MAGGIE: THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: SO, ELECTION MISINFORMATION THREATENS THE VERY FOUNDATIONS OF THE REPUBLIC AND, YOU KNOW, RUMORS FLY REALLY FAST AND HERE IS A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN CHECK IT.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE A SHORT VERSION OF THE WEBSITE, WE CAN PUT THE VERY LONG ONE.

BUT GIVE ME SOME EXAMPLES OF SOME RUMORS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REPEATING WITHOUT CHECKING THAT ARE REALLY DISTURBING.

>>MAGGIE: SURE, WELL I MEAN I THINK THE BIG ONE, AND WE WILL PROBABLY TALK MORE ABOUT THIS TODAY, IS THAT SOMEHOW DOMINION VOTING MACHINES ARE HACKABLE, THEY ARE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET.

WE USE DOMINION MACHINES HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WE HAVE SINCE 2012.

I WILL NOTE THAT FORMER GOVERNOR, SUSANNA MARTINEZ, WAS RE-ELECTED ON THOSE SYSTEMS, A NUMBER OF REPUBLICAN OFFICIALS THROUGHOUT THE STATE, BUT IT JUST IGNORES THE CONTEXT AND THE REALITY UNDER WHICH WE ACTUALLY CONDUCT ELECTIONS, AND WE NEVER TAKE ANY SYSTEM ON ITS FACE VALUE.

WE ALWAYS BUILD PROCESSES AND PROCEDURES TO ENSURE ACCURACY AND INTEGRITY BEYOND JUST, YOU KNOW, A COMPUTER THAT COUNTS VOTES.

SO THAT IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE, ANOTHER EXAMPLE IS ABOUT THE NEED FOR THE SO-CALLED FORENSIC AUDITS THAT ARE BEING PUSHED, FOR EXAMPLE IN OTERO COUNTY, SEVERAL MONTHS AGO.

WE ALREADY CONDUCT POST ELECTIONS AUDITS HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

WE HAVE BEEN DOING THAT SINCE 2008, WE DO THEM IN A VERY SCIENTIFIC, AND IMPORTANTLY, LEGAL AND PROCEDURE INTENSE WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT ACCURACY IS THE FOCUS.

SO, IT GETS INTO A LOT OF THESE DIFFERENT RUMORS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING AROUND SINCE 2020 AND THAT ARE PART OF THE BIG LIE THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE, UNFORTUNATELY, HAVE BOUGHT INTO ABOUT THE ACCURACY AND INTEGRITY OF OUR ELECTIONS.

>>LORENE: SO YOU WILL GIVE ME THE SHORT VERSION OF THE WEBSITE AND WE WILL PUT IT UP THERE BECAUSE I THINK PEOPLE WILL BE GLAD TO HAVE A PLACE TO CHECK RUMOR VS REALITY.

>>MAGGIE: SURE.

>>LORENE: ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS, WE ARE NOW GOING TO MOVE INTO WHAT CATAPULTED YOU INTO NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT WHICH WAS WHAT HAPPENED IN OTERO COUNTY.

SO YOU PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE SEVERAL DAYS IN JUNE ABOUT EACH LITTLE STEP.

SO, TELL US, WHAT HAPPENED, WHY OTERO COUNTY, WHO IS COUY GRIFFIN, AND WHAT HAPPENED THAT WAS SO CONTROVERSIAL?

>>MAGGIE: SURE.

WELL, THE FIRST THING TO KNOW IS THAT EVERY COUNTY AFTER AN ELECTION, STATE, LOCAL, FEDERAL ELECTION CONDUCTS WHAT IS CALLED A CANVASS OF THE ELECTION RESULTS AND THAT'S REALLY THE FIRST PASS OF AN AUDIT THAT IS DONE AFTER AN ELECTION TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NUMBER OF VOTES CAST EQUALS THE NUMBER OF VOTES COUNTED OR BALLOTS SPOILED OR PROVISIONAL BALLOTS, TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYTHING ADDS UP, MAKE SURE THAT THE TOTALS ARE CORRECT FOR EACH RACE IN EACH PRECINCT AND THEN HAVE THAT RESULT CERTIFIED SO THAT THEN, AT THE STATE LEVEL, WE CAN CONDUCT OUR CANVASS, WHICH IS THE NEXT LEVEL OF THE DOUBLE CHECK AND BALANCE OF THE ELECTION PROCESS.

AND THEN WE HAVE AN INDEPENDENT AUDITOR THAT WILL COME IN AND TRIPLE CHECK ALL OF THAT WORK.

SO, WHAT THE COUNTY COMMISSION'S ROLE IS IN EACH COUNTY IS TO JUST SIMPLY MAKE SURE THAT THE COUNTY CLERK DID THAT JOB.

THIS IS WHY WE HAVE CHECKS AND BALANCES IN OUR ELECTION PROCESS SO THAT NO ONE PERSON OR ENTITY CAN UPEND THE ELECTION PROCESS.

SO THE COUNTY COMMISSION'S ROLE WAS REALLY TO JUST SIGN OFF SAYING, YES, OUR COUNTY CLERK DID HER JOB, SHE COUNTED ALL THE RESULTS AFTER THE ELECTION AND MADE SURE EVERYTHING ADDED UP CORRECTLY.

THE UNFORTUNATE THING IS THAT THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IN OTERO COUNTY HAD FRANKLY BEEN TOLD BY PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ELECTION EXPERTS THAT THEY HAVE SOME SORT OF A POLICY ROLE IN THE ELECTION PROCESS, WHICH THEY DON'T, THAT IS UP TO THE LEGISLATURE AND THAT BY VOTING NOT TO CERTIFY THEY COULD SOMEHOW CAUSE A HAND RECOUNT OF THE VOTE, THEY COULD GET RID OF VOTING MACHINES.

YOU KNOW, NONE OF THESE ARE WITHIN THE AUTHORITY OF THE COMMISSION.

SO IF THEY HAD NOT CERTIFIED THEIR ELECTION RESULTS, WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IS THE VOTES OF 7300 VOTERS IN OTERO COUNTY WOULD HAVE BEEN THROWN IN THE TRASH AND EVERY SINGLE OFFICE ON THAT BALLOT ENTIRELY WITHIN OTERO COUNTY, WE WOULD HAVE NOT SEEN ANY OF THOSE CANDIDATES ON THE GENERAL ELECTION BALLOT.

THE RINGLEADER OF THIS WITHIN THE COMMISSION IS COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN, WHO IS RENOWNED FOR BEING THE COWBOY FOR TRUMP, HE IS A BIG SUPPORTER OF PRESIDENT TRUMP AND ALL OF THIS IS SORT OF PART OF THE BIG LIE THAT HAS BEEN PROPAGATED SINCE 2020.

>>LORENE: AND WHEN THEY QUESTIONED THE ELECTIONS IN OTERO COUNTY, THEY HAD A FEELING.

THEY HAD NO FACTS, THEY HAD NO DATA, THEY JUST HAD A FEELING THAT THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE VOTING MACHINES.

THAT IS NOT A LEGAL POSTURE AT ALL AND IS INDEFENSIBLE.

AND YOU ACTUALLY, THEN TELL ME HOW THE SUPREME COURT GOT INVOLVED AND WHAT YOUR FINAL BACKUP WOULD HAVE BEEN, I THINK THEY KIND OF INTIMIDATED THEM INTO DOING THEIR JOB.

>>MAGGIE: WELL, YOU KNOW HAD THEY NOT, YOU KNOW, AGAIN WE WERE GOING TO LOSE THE VOTES OF 7300 OTERO COUNTY VOTERS FOR VERY IMPORTANT OFFICES.

YOU KNOW, THESE CANDIDATES, MANY OF WHOM WON THE PRIMARY ELECTION AND WHO HAVE NO GENERAL ELECTION OPPONENT, THOSE WOULD HAVE ALL BEEN POSITIONS THAT WOULD BE APPOINTED BY THE COUNTY COMMISSION EVENTUALLY, BUT HAD THESE INDIVIDUALS ON THE COMMISSION NOT PERFORMED THEIR STATUTORY NON-DISCRETIONARY DUTY, THEY COULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM OFFICE FOR FAILURE TO CARRY OUT THE LAW AND THE OATH THAT THEY ALL SWORE TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS OF THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO.

AND IN FACT, HAD THEY HAD BEEN REMOVED, GOVERNOR LUJAN-GRISHAM COULD HAVE APPOINTED A WHOLE NEW COUNTY COMMISSION TO CARRY OUT THE ELECTION.

>>LORENE: AND THEY MIGHT NOT HAVE REFLECTED THE TEMPERATURE OF OTERO COUNTY, WHICH VOTED FOR FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP BY 62 PERCENT.

>>MAGGIE: WELL, THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT AND SO THAT WHY IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT YOU KNOW, NOT EVERYBODY CAN BE AN ELECTION OFFICIAL IN CHARGE OF RUNNING ELECTIONS.

THAT IS NOT THE JOB OF THE COUNTY COMMISSIONS.

SO, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND THEIR ROLE AND RESPONSIBILITY WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF THE ELECTION PROCESS.

>>LORENE: AND THERE IS A MOVEMENT, NATIONALLY, IN THE RIGHT WING TO DO WHATEVER THEY CAN TO DISRUPT THIS AND THIS WAS LIKE THE DREAM SCENARIO.

THEY FINALLY HAD A COUNTY COMMISSION THAT WAS GOING TO BUCK THE SYSTEM AND NOT FOLLOW THE LAW AND SO THE SUPREME COURT ORDERED THEM AND THEN YOU COULD HAVE CALLED THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND TAKEN LEGAL ACTION AGAINST THEM.

I AM GRATEFUL THAT THEY STEPPED UP AND DID THE RIGHT THING AND FOLLOWED THE LETTER OF THE LAW.

BUT THE FACT THAT WE ARE SO VULNERABLE BY SOME ECCENTRIC AND PERHAPS MEDIA ATTENTION SEEKING PEOPLE TO GET THEIR NAME IN THE SPOTLIGHT AND TO HAVE THE WHOLE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT KIND OF ROOTING FOR THEM, MAYBE WE CAN DO IT BUT THEY DIDN'T MESS WITH OUR SECRETARY OF STATE.

SO I AM VERY, VERY GRATEFUL AND THAT IS WHY I BROUGHT YOU HERE.

AND AGAIN I HAVE MENTIONED THE JANUARY 6 HEARINGS WHERE SO MANY ELECTION WORKERS, BUT OTHER CIVIL SERVANTS JUST SAID, NO, REMEMBER WHEN FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP CALLED THE SECRETARY OF STATE OF GEORGIA AND SAID, "I NEED, FIND ME 11,700 SOME ODD VOTES."

IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: IT DOES IF YOU ARE CORRUPT BUT IT DOESN'T WORK IF YOU ARE A LEGAL PERSON.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO ARE WE PROTECTED FROM THIS HAPPENING AGAIN?

>>MAGGIE: I HOPE SO, I HOPE THE MESSAGE THAT WAS SENT TO THE OTERO COUNTY COMMISSION, YOU KNOW, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT WE HAD AT LEAST TWO OTHER COUNTY COMMISSIONS IN THE STATE THAT WERE, YOU KNOW, WAITING TO SEE I THINK WHAT HAPPENED IN OTERO COUNTY BEFORE THEY DECIDED IF THEY WERE GOING TO FOLLOW SUIT OR NOT, SANDOVAL COUNTY AND TORRANCE COUNTY.

THEY COMPLIED WITH THE LAW, THERE WERE A LOT OF QUESTIONS, A LOT OF CONCERNS AND HERE IS THE THING.

I THINK COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ARE ABSOLUTELY ENTITLED TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>MAGGIE: THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY ENTITLED TO RAISE POLITICAL ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A RIGHT AND A RESPONSIBILITY BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY STILL HAVE THEIR DUTY UNDER THE LAW AND AS LONG AS THEY FOLLOW THEIR DUTY UNDER THE LAW, YOU CAN ASK ALL THE QUESTIONS YOU WANT.

NOW MY ONLY CONCERN AT THIS POINT IS THAT IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF THESE INDIVIDUALS HAVE ONLY BEEN GETTING ONE SIDE OF THE STORY AND THE SIDE OF THE STORY THEY HAVE BEEN GETTING IS FROM INDIVIDUALS WHO BELIEVE THE BIG LIE, WHO ARE CONTINUING TO PERPETUATE THE BIG LIE AND QUITE FRANKLY ARE NOT ELECTION EXPERTS, THEY DON'T ACTUALLY KNOW THE ELECTION LAW IN THE STATE OR HOW ELECTIONS ARE RUN.

>>LORENE: THEY ALSO DON'T KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINNING AND LOSING.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT, RIGHT.

AND YOU KNOW, LORENE, THIS IS MY 16TH YEAR OF EITHER OVERSEEING OR RUNNING ELECTIONS IN NEW MEXICO.

AND I WILL TELL YOU I HAVE SPENT PERSONALLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN I TAKE MY ELECTION OFFICIAL HAT OFF AND AS A PERSON, AS A MEMBER OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, I HAVE SPENT MANY OF THOSE NIGHTS CELEBRATING AND MANY OF THOSE NIGHTS BEING REALLY DISAPPOINTED IN ELECTION OUTCOMES, BUT THE OUTCOME IS THE OUTCOME AND THE RESULTS ARE THE RESULTS AND WE MOVE FORWARD.

>>LORENE: WELL, IT HAS BEEN DISTURBING TO ME THE NATIONAL HARASSMENT OF EVERY LEVEL OF ELECTION OFFICIALS.

EVEN POLL WATCHERS AND THE DISRUPTION AND THE THREATS AND THE IMPLIED VIOLENCE.

YOU ARE NO STRANGER TO HARASSMENT BECAUSE YOU WENT THROUGH WHEN YOU WERE PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF SECRETARIES OF STATE, FOR A WHILE THERE WAS A HIT ON YOU.

YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT THAT AND HOW THAT AFFECTED YOU, SO YOU HAVE MUCH COMPASSION FOR ALL THESE GOOD ELECTION WORKERS WHO WERE JUST TRYING TO FOLLOW THE LAW AND DO THEIR JOB.

>>MAGGIE: I DO, I HAVE A LOT OF COMPASSION AND I OFTEN SAY THAT MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WASN'T ANYTHING COMPARED TO WHAT A LOT OF THESE FOLKS WENT THROUGH, BUT IT WAS HARD ENOUGH.

I WAS DOXED, MY PERSONAL INFORMATION, MY HOME, MY ADDRESS, MY PHONE NUMBER, MY EMAIL WERE POSTED ON THE INTERNET, I WAS CALLED AN ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE, THERE WAS A COUNTDOWN CLOCK.

A BITCON WALLET WAS BEING COLLECTED FOR A BOUNTIES FOR MYSELF AND ABOUT 40 OTHER ELECTION OFFICIALS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I DID HAVE TO LEAVE HOME FOR SEVERAL WEEKS RIGHT AROUND THE HOLIDAY PERIOD IN 2020 AND EARLY 2021 FOR MY SAFETY AND FOR 12-YEAR-OLD SON'S SAFETY.

A HORRIBLE TIME TO BE DISPLACED FROM HOME AND WHILE I FELT RELATIVELY SAFE, TAKING THE PRECAUTIONS THAT I WAS ABLE TO TAKE, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY WHO HAS A KIDDO AND HAS TO BE AWAY FROM THEM AROUND THE HOLIDAYS IT IS REALLY EMOTIONALLY PAINFUL.

SO I DO HAVE NOTHING BUT EMPATHY FOR EVERYBODY WHO HAS BEEN GOING THROUGH THIS SORT OF THING, CONTINUES TO GO THROUGH IT JUST FOR DOING THEIR JOBS.

>>LORENE: I AM SO GRATEFUL THAT YOU ARE SAFE AND IT WAS THE FBI AND HOMELAND SECURITY WHO PRETTY MUCH PROTECTED YOU.

WE ARE SPEAKING TODAY WITH NEW MEXICO'S SECRETARY OF STATE, MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER.

AND I JUST WANT PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE BECAUSE HERE WE ARE, WE THINK NOTHING LIKE THIS IS EVER GOING TO HAPPEN IN NEW MEXICO AND IT WASN'T ACTUALLY A DOMESTIC RIGHT-WING/LEFT-WING, IT WAS FROM THE COUNTRY OF IRAN.

>>MAGGIE: THAT'S RIGHT.

WELL AND SEE, WHAT THESE FOREIGN ENTITIES, WHAT THESE FOREIGN NATIONS DO IS THEY DON'T ACTUALLY MAKE THE THREATS THEMSELVES, THEY ARE INTERESTED IN PERPETUATING MISINFORMATION SO THAT AMERICANS WILL RISE UP AND TAKE ISSUE WITH OTHER AMERICANS.

IT IS ABOUT DRIVING A WEDGE IN OUR SOCIETY.

SO IF THEY CAN FIND AN ISSUE LIKE A QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE 2020 ELECTION WAS RUN LEGALLY AND FAIRLY, THEY WILL DRIVE THAT WEDGE AS HARD AS THEY CAN TO TRY TO UPROOT AND UPEND OUR DEMOCRACY.

>>LORENE: SO, I AM THINKING A LITTLE BIT.

SEAN PENN WAS IN UKRAINE, THE MOVIE STAR, AND THEY WANTED HIM TO COME BACK TO AMERICA, HE SAID, "YOU KNOW I AM HAPPY IN UKRAINE BECAUSE EVERYONE HERE IS FOR UKRAINE.

EVERYONE IS UNITED, PASSIONATELY FOR THEIR COUNTRY."

HE SAID, "AMERICA IS TRAGICALLY, TOXICALLY DIVIDED."

HOW ARE WE GOING TO GET BACK THAT EROSION OF FAITH IN ELECTIONS AND THE BIG LIE AND ALL OF THAT HAS HAD SUCH A LONG-TERM POISONOUS EFFECT AND WHAT KIND OF LEADERSHIP IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET US BACK TOGETHER?

IN THE CASE OF SEVERE THREAT, WE DON'T WANT TO GO THAT WAY, WE WANT A VISIONARY LEADER TO STEP UP AND SAY WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER, WE ARE WONDERFUL, LET'S MOVE FORWARD UNITED.

>>MAGGIE: FRANKLY IT IS GOING TO TAKE PARTISANS ON BOTH SIDES WHO VERY MUCH BELIEVE IN THEIR OWN POLITICAL PARTY'S AGENDA BUT WHO ARE WILLING TO COME TOGETHER AND SAY, WE CAN DISAGREE ALL DAY LONG ABOUT THE RIGHT TO ABORTION OR THE ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WE ARE ALL AGREEING ABOUT THE FACTS AROUND HOW OUR ELECTIONS ARE RUN.

WHAT IS TRUE AND WHAT IS NOT TRUE, HOW WE SHOULD CONTINUE TO RUN OUR ELECTIONS, I FEEL LIKE BEING ABLE TO JUST AGREE ON THE FUNDAMENTAL RULES OF THE GAME.

IT IS SO CRITICAL TO OUR FUTURE HEALTH OF THE NATION AND THE FUTURE HEALTH OF OUR DEMOCRACY, AND IT WILL TAKE PEOPLE OF BOTH PARTIES TO STAND UP AGAINST THOSE WHO WOULD RATHER NOT SEE THEM WORK ACROSS THE AISLES.

WE NEED THAT BIPARTISAN COLLABORATION NOW MORE THAN EVER AT THIS TIME WHEN WE ARE DRIVEN MORE FURTHER APART THAN EVER.

>>LORENE: AND WE HAVE THAT PATTERN IN OUR NEW MEXICO HISTORY.

THE LEGISLATURE IN THE SENATE THE DEMOCRATS VERSES REPUBLICANS, WILL HAVE A KNOCK DOWN DRAG OUT FIGHTS ON THE FLOOR AND THEN GO TO DINNER AND NAME THE OTHER GUY AS HIS GODCHILD'S, GOD-PARENT.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN IT WAS JUST A LOVELY UNIFIED, EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE POLICY DIFFERENCES AND THEY KEPT THAT, ONE OF THE ELEMENTS THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT IS REEDUCATING THE ELECTORATE BECAUSE IF THE ELECTORATE BELIEVES THE BIG LIE, THEN, WE'RE LOSING.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO IN YOUR RUMOR VS REALITY WEBSITE IS SUCH A STEP TOWARDS THAT.

PEOPLE CAN SAY, YOU TOLD ME THAT, OH GOSH 2020 NOW JUST LOOKING LIKE ANCIENT HISTORY, BUT PEOPLE ARE NOT GIVING UP, THEY THINK YEAH, THEY DISPUTE THE OUTCOME.

SO HOW CAN WE ENCOURAGE THE ELECTORATE TO TAKE OWNERSHIP OF THIS WONDERFUL SYSTEM OF ELECTIONS THAT WE HAVE AND NOT TO ERODE IT AND UNDERMINE IT?

>>MAGGIE: WELL ONE THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT ELECTION LAW AND THE ELECTION PROCESS, THEY ARE VERY COMPLEX AND THEY ARE COMPLICATED AND THAT IS INTENTIONAL BECAUSE WE BUILT SO MANY CHECKS AND BALANCES INTO OUR ELECTION PROCESS TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS FAIR, TO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS ACCURATE.

BUT IF YOU HAVE SORT OF A SIMPLE ARGUMENT THAT, OH ELECTIONS ARE RIGGED, ELECTIONS ARE STOLEN, THERE IS A VERY SIMPLISTIC EXPLANATION OF WHY THAT IS, VERSES WELL NO ACTUALLY THIS IS THE TRUTH, AND LET ME GET INTO THESE 15 DIFFERENT DETAILS ABOUT WHY THE TRUTH IS THE ACCURATE POINT OF VIEW.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT'S HARD, IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION TO DIGEST.

THAT BEING SAID, MY JOB AND I THINK THE JOB OF CIVIC-MINDED INDIVIDUALS, IS TO FIRST AND FOREMOST DO A BETTER JOB AT COMMUNICATING EVERYTHING THAT WE DO DO IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE FAIR AND ACCURATE ELECTIONS.

I THINK THAT WE NEED TO HAVE THAT INFORMATION VERY EASILY AVAILABLE AND DIGESTIBLE.

AND THEN LASTLY, I REALLY WANT TO ENCOURAGE MORE FOLKS AND I KNOW THIS SOUNDS KIND OF IRONIC, BUT PARTICULARLY THOSE WHO ARE QUESTIONING THE ACCURACY AND INTEGRITY OF OUR ELECTIONS, I INVITE THEM TO COME BE A PART OF THE ELECTION PROCESS, TO WORK THE POLLS, TO SEE FOR THEMSELVES WITH THEIR OWN TWO EYES AND THEIR OWN EXPERIENCE, HOW MUCH GOES INTO INSURING ACCURACY AND FAIRNESS.

AND THEN POTENTIALLY THEY CAN HAVE THEIR MIND CHANGED, BUT AT A MINIMUM, THEY CAN HAVE A ROLE IN MAKING SURE OUR ELECTIONS ARE CONDUCTED FAIRLY.

>>LORENE: THAT IS LOVELY, MAYBE YOU CAN TRY IN THE NEXT ELECTION TO INVITE PEOPLE WITH CONCERNS TO PARTICIPATE.

>>MAGGIE: SURE.

>>LORENE: IT'S VERY MOVING TO ME.

I STILL VOTE IN PERSON BECAUSE I JUST GET A LUMP IN MY THROAT AND IT IS VERY SENTIMENTAL.

SO THE BIG LIE, ELECTION DISINFORMATION, INTIMIDATION AND THREATS, WHICH YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH SO MUCH, LET'S LOOK AT THE ISSUE OF THE FAKE ELECTORS.

SO, IN 2020, BIDEN HAD WON.

HOWEVER, SEVERAL STATES AND WE WERE AMONG THEM, PRESENTED A SLATE OF FIVE ELECTORS TO GO IN AND VOTE FOR THE LOSER AND I WAS SURPRISED BECAUSE I KNOW THE NAMES OF THOSE ELECTORS, THEY ARE EXPERIENCED POLITICAL PEOPLE AND THEY HAD TO KNOW THAT THIS WAS ILLEGAL.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: THAT THIS WAS ATTEMPTING ELECTION FRAUD.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: IS THAT ALL OVER, YEAH WE HAD FAKE ELECTORS, IT'S STILL COMING UP IN THE JANUARY 6 HEARING.

>>MAGGIE: I DON'T THINK THAT IT IS OVER YET.

YOU KNOW, I THINK IF WE LEARNED ANYTHING FROM LAST WEEK, LATE LAST WEEK'S HEARING, THIS WAS STILL A VERY MUCH ACTIVE INVESTIGATION BOTH AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AND I KNOW AT THE STATE LEVEL, I HAVE HAD RECENT CONVERSATIONS WITH OUR ATTORNEY GENERAL TRYING TO DECIPHER AND DECODE THIS ELECTORAL COUNT ACT AND WHAT THE REAL RAMIFICATIONS ARE IF YOU ARE A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE ATTEMPTING TO DEFRAUD THE GOVERNMENT BY SENDING IN A FALSE SLATE OF ELECTORS.

I THINK WE CAN ALL SAY FOR SURE WE ARE VERY THANKFUL THAT, THAT PLOY DID NOT WORK.

THERE IS A VERY, SHALL WE SAY, A SPECIOUS LEGAL ARGUMENT THAT WAS PUT FORTH BY, AS WE LEARNED IN THE HEARINGS LAST WEEK, JOHN EASTMAN, WHO HAPPENS TO BE A RESIDENT OF SANTA FE AND A VOTER HERE IN NEW MEXICO.

>>LORENE: I WAS SHOCKED, I WILL TELL YOU.

>>MAGGIE: AND I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY THE REASON WHY THAT AFTER IT WAS ATTEMPTED HERE.

>>LORENE: HERE BECAUSE HE LIVES HERE.

>>MAGGIE: IN A STATE WHERE PRESIDENT BIDEN WON BY A 100,000 VOTES.

>>LORENE: YEAH, I THINK THEY GOT HIM AT A RESTAURANT IN SANTA FE AND THE FBI CONFISCATED HIS PHONE.

>>MAGGIE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: SO WE WILL SEE HOW THE WORM TURNS ON THE THAT ISSUE.

I NEVER HEARD ANYTHING, THE FAKE ELECTORS NEVER SAID, I DIDN'T HEAR A PEEP OUT OF ANY OF THEM.

THEY WERE PROBABLY PROUD TO BE INCLUDED BUT IT IS ELECTION FRAUD.

WE WILL SEE HOW THAT GOES.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: I AM ALWAYS CONCERNED ABOUT THE ELECTORATE BECAUSE AS YOU SAY, THE WHOLE ELECTION PROCESS IS SO COMPLICATED, AND THEY ARE SO SWAYED BY OH, THE DOMINION MACHINES ARE NO GOOD AND THIS AND THAT.

CIVICS IN THE SCHOOLS, IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK?

>>MAGGIE: NO, IT IS NOT TOO MUCH TO ASK.

WE NEED MUCH BROADER AND MORE DETAILED CIVICS, WELL CIVIC ENGAGEMENT, IN GENERAL, BUT CIVIC EDUCATION IN THE CLASS AND WE TALKED ONE TIME ABOUT HOW I GOT A SEMESTER OF GOVERNMENT CLASS WHEN I WAS A SENIOR IN HIGH SCHOOL AND THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF THE CIVIC EDUCATION I GOT, OTHER THAN SAYING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE EVERY DAY.

>>LORENE: OH YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

>>MAGGIE: AH YOU KNOW, BUT WE DO NEED MORE AND I THINK IT IS NOT JUST CIVIC EDUCATION, IT IS CRITICAL THINKING.

SO THINKING ABOUT ALL OF THE MIS AND DISINFORMATION SO BEING MORE MEDIA LITERATE AND KNOWING HOW TO SORT OF PROCESS WHAT YOU ARE READING IN SOCIAL MEDIA AND IN MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND ON BLOGS MORE CRITICALLY.

AND THEN LASTLY, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE TODAY, SO WHEN YOU MAKE A BROAD ACCUSATION ABOUT ELECTION INTEGRITY, CALLING IT INTO QUESTION, SAYING THE ELECTION WAS RIGGED, SAYING DOMINION MACHINES ARE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET OR WHATEVER.

THEN WHAT I AM BEING ASKED TO DO AND WHAT OTHER ELECTION OFFICIALS ARE BEING ASKED TO DO IS RATHER THAN THESE INDIVIDUALS BEING FORCED TO SHOW EVIDENCE THAT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IS TRUE, WE ARE BEING ASKED TO SHOW EVIDENCE THAT WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IS FALSE.

IN OTHER WORDS, WE ARE BEING ASKED TO PROVE A NEGATIVE.

>>LORENE: YES.

>>MAGGIE: HOW CAN I PROVE SOMETHING DIDN'T HAPPEN IF IT DIDN'T HAPPEN?

AND I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR INDIVIDUALS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THAT'S THE CHALLENGE AND THAT'S DELIBERATE.

THEY ARE SETTING THAT UP DELIBERATELY BECAUSE I CANNOT PROVIDE YOU WITH EVIDENCE OF SOMETHING THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IF IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

RIGHT?

>>LORENE: YEAH.

WHOA.

>>MAGGIE: THAT'S THE CHALLENGE.

>>LORENE: THAT IS THE CHALLENGE.

BUT MEANWHILE TO GET THE ELECTORATE ENGAGED AND CRITICAL THINKING IS SO IMPORTANT AS THEY SAY THAT ALL THE DIFFERENT PARTISAN TELEVISION CHANNELS ARE LIKE ECHO CHAMBERS, YOU LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT YOU ALREADY BELIEVE.

>>MAGGIE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: I WATCH A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL NEWS JUST FOR THE FACTS.

>>MAGGIE: YES.

>>LORENE: YOU KNOW.

>>MAGGIE: AN OUTSIDE PERSPECTIVE.

>>LORENE: AN OUTSIDE PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND WHAT IT IS JUST LIKE HAIR ON FIRE.

AND THAT'S THE OTHER THING BESIDES CIVICS IN SCHOOL, WE NEED MEDIA LITERACY AND CRITICAL THINKING.

>>MAGGIE: THAT'S RIGHT.

>>LORENE: YEAH.

SO YOU DID SAVE THE DAY AND YOU WERE ON EVERY CHANNEL, YOU WERE ON CNN, WERE YOU ON FOX?

>>MAGGIE: I WASN'T ON FOX, NO.

>>LORENE: MSNBC, EVERY TIME I TURNED IT ON, THERE YOU WERE.

>>MAGGIE: PBS.

>>LORENE: YES, PBS.

THAT WAS A REALLY GOOD.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU HAVE DONE TO STAND UP FOR OUR ELECTION INTEGRITY AND FOR OUR REPUTATION AS A STATE.

THERE WAS NO QUESTION, YOU KNOW, THEY BROKE THE LAW, THEY WERE GOING TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: AND WE HAVE MISSED ACCOUNTABILITY ON SO MANY LEVELS.

SO THERE IT WAS, THE BUCK STOPS HERE.

>>MAGGIE: YEAH.

>>LORENE: OUR LAST WORD FOR OUR PEOPLE.

>>MAGGIE: YOU KNOW WHAT I REALLY WANT FOLKS IN OUR STATE TO KNOW IS WHETHER IT IS ME OR ANYONE OF OUR 33 COUNTY CLERKS OR THE THOUSANDS OF VOLUNTEERS THAT WE HAVE ACROSS THE STATE AND MIND YOU WE ARE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE FROM ALL POLITICAL PARTIES, IT IS NOT JUST DEMOCRATS.

WE CARE DEEPLY ABOUT EVERY NEW MEXICAN'S RIGHT TO VOTE AND MAKING SURE THAT THAT VOTE IS COUNTED AND COUNTED ACCURATELY.

OUR PERSONAL INTEGRITY IS INVESTED IN THAT, OUR PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY AND WE BELIEVE HERE IN NEW MEXICO THAT WE HAVE SET UP A REALLY GREAT SYSTEM THAT IS A MODEL FOR THE REST OF THE COUNTRY ON THIS FRONT.

AND AGAIN, IF FOLKS HAVE QUESTIONS OR IF THEY ARE IN DOUBT, RATHER THAN THROWING IN WITH THOSE WHO ARE NOT ELECTION EXPERTS AND BELIEVING THE BIG LIE, ASK QUESTIONS, PARTICIPATE IN THE ELECTION PROCESS, SERVE AS A POLL WORKER, AVAIL YOURSELF, IF YOU CAN, OF WHATEVER OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE TO GAIN MORE INFORMATION ABOUT HOW THE PROCESS ACTUALLY WORKS.

AND I THINK YOU WILL COME AWAY WITH MORE CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTIONS.

>>LORENE: AND I WANT TO, AGAIN, WE WILL PUT THE WEBSITE FOR THE RUMOR VS REALITY THAT'S ONE WAY TO STAMP OUT MISINFORMATION.

>>MAGGIE: YES.

>>LORENE: AND I AM JUST SO GRATEFUL TO YOU.

THANK YOU FOR COMING BACK ON, WE HOPE YOU STAY OUT OF THE NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT FOR A LITTLE WHILE.

BUT YOU SERVE NEW MEXICO REALLY I THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>MAGGIE: THANK YOU, LORENE.

>>LORENE: AND OUR GUEST TODAY IS MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER, NEW MEXICO SECRETARY OF STATE, AM LORENE MILLS, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU OUR AUDIENCE FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM