♪ MUSIC REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

HELLO, I'M LORENE MILLS, WELCOME TO REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

I'M REALLY DEEPLY HONORED TO HAVE AS OUR GUEST TODAY, NEW MEXICO'S SECRETARY OF STATE, THE CHIEF ELECTION OFFICER FOR THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO, WHICH YOU'VE BEEN DOING SINCE 2016, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

>>MAGGIE: THANK YOU.

>>LORENE: SO WE HAVE A LOT OF DATES TO GO OVER, IT'S VERY TIMELY, THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO GET YOU ON WITH ENOUGH TIME FOR PEOPLE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET AN ABSENTEE BALLOT, HOW TO GET A SAMPLE BALLOT, ALL THE THINGS, BECAUSE YOU OFFER SO MUCH INFORMATION TO THE VOTER.

I MEAN, IT'S REALLY A GIFT AND THE OTHER THING THAT WE IN NEW MEXICO HAVE IS PAPER BALLOTS, AND PAPER BALLOTS CAN'T BE HACKED.

>>MAGGIE: NO, THEY CAN'T.

>>LORENE: THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE'RE KNOWN AS ONE OF THE STATES WITH THE HIGHEST ELECTION INTEGRITY AND THANK YOU FOR THAT.

>>MAGGIE: THAT'S RIGHT.

WELL, THANK YOU, IT'S BEEN A TEAM EFFORT, AND WE'RE REALLY PROUD OF THAT HERE, AND AS WE SHOULD BE.

>>LORENE: ABSOLUTELY.

SO, THE BASIC QUESTION IS, AND IT'S OPEN-ENDED AND LENGTHY, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO ANSWER IT, BUT WHY SHOULD PEOPLE VOTE.

>>MAGGIE: YOU KNOW, I'VE ANSWERED THAT QUESTION A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS OVER THE YEARS.

I THINK DURING COVID TIMES ACTUALLY, I THINK IT WAS THE EASIEST QUESTION TO ANSWER BECAUSE EVERYBODY EXPERIENCED SOMETHING, SOME SORT OF DECISION THAT WAS MADE BY FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT IN THEIR EVERYDAY LIFE.

THEY COULD FEEL IT, THEY COULD TOUCH IT, THEY COULD SEE IT.

BUT THE REALITY IS THAT EVEN THOUGH COVID MAY HAVE BEEN A VERY IN-YOUR-FACE EXPERIENCE FOR PEOPLE WHO, YOU KNOW, MAYBE THINK POLITICS IS NOT IN THEIR INTEREST OR NOT SOMETHING THAT THEY CARE ABOUT, WELL, SURE ENOUGH, WHEN IT'S AFFECTING YOUR ABILITY TO GO TO YOUR JOB AND WHETHER OR NOT YOU HAVE A JOB AND THINGS LIKE WHETHER YOUR KIDS CAN GO TO SCHOOL, THESE THINGS BECOME VERY RELEVANT.

AND SO REALLY, AT THE END OF THE DAY, IN SO MANY DIFFERENT WAYS THAT MAYBE WE DON'T NECESSARILY SEE AND TOUCH EVERY SINGLE DAY, DECISIONS ARE BEING MADE AT ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT EVERY SINGLE DAY THAT IMPACT US IN OUR DAILY LIVES.

I OFTEN HEAR PEOPLE VERY FRUSTRATED, VERY CYNICAL, AND JADED WITH GOVERNMENT, LOOKING TO ELECTED OFFICIALS THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY EITHER DON'T LIKE OR MAYBE THEY ONCE LIKED AND THOUGHT, WELL, THIS PERSON ISN'T DOING WHAT I WANT THEM TO DO AND THE REALITY IS THE ONLY WAY WE TRULY HAVE TO COMMUNICATE A MESSAGE TO OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES IS TO VOTE AND TO SAY WHETHER WE WANT THEM IN OFFICE, DON'T WANT THEM ANYMORE, APPROVE OF THE JOB THEY'RE DOING OR NOT.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, AT ITS VERY CORE IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT WAY WE AS CITIZENS GET TO HAVE A SAY IN OUR OWN GOVERNMENT.

>>LORENE: THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY, YOUR VOTE IS YOUR VOICE.

>>MAGGIE: YOUR VOTE IS YOUR VOICE.

>>LORENE: I'M OFTEN ASTONISHED IN A STATE LIKE NEW MEXICO THAT THE POLITICIANS ARE SO ACCESSIBLE TO THE VOTERS.

SO THAT ONCE YOU VOTED SOMEBODY AND YOU VOTED FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY HAD A PLATFORM OR SOMETHING THAT YOU BELIEVED IN, AND YET THEY WEREN'T IN ACTION IN OFFICE LIVING UP TO THAT PLATFORM, YOU CAN STILL GO IN AND SAY, HEY, BUT YOU WERE GOING TO DO THIS, HOW'S THAT COMING?

THEN IF THEY NEVER DO IT, YOU JUST VOTE AGAINST THEM THE NEXT TIME.

>>MAGGIE: THAT'S RIGHT AND YOU KNOW, YOU JUST POINTED OUT I THINK ONE OF THE MOST SPECIAL THINGS ABOUT GOVERNMENT AND POLITICS IN NEW MEXICO IS HOW INTIMATE IT IS.

YOU KNOW, ANYBODY CAN WALK INTO OUR STATE CAPITOL BUILDING WHERE YOU AND I ARE RIGHT NOW, ANY DAY AND IF THEY'RE IN SESSION OR HAVING COMMITTEES, YOUR STATE REPRESENTATIVES AND SENATORS ARE AVAILABLE TO YOU PHYSICALLY RIGHT THERE TO MEET AND CONVERSE AT ANY POINT.

>>LORENE: AND NOT ONLY THAT ALL THAT STUFF IS ONLINE.

SO, IF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE IS MEETING AND YOU WORK FOR SOMEWHERE THAT DEPENDS ON THE FUNDING, YOU CAN WATCH IT.

>>MAGGIE: YES, EVERYTHING'S WEBCAST NOW.

>>LORENE: YES, EVERYTHING IS WEBCAST EXCEPT THE CLOSED-DOOR SESSIONS, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER SHOW.

>>MAGGIE: MAYBE ONE DAY THOSE TOO WILL BE WEBCAST.

>>LORENE: WELL, THEY SHOULD, BUT ANYWAY, WE TRY TO MAKE IT AS OPEN AS POSSIBLE AND WHAT I LOVE ABOUT YOU AND YOUR OFFICE IS THAT YOU GET SO MUCH INFORMATION OUT.

SO I WANTED TO GO THROUGH A LIST OF SOME OF THE THINGS YOU HAVE, JUST BECAUSE THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WE NEED RIGHT NOW IS THE DATES AND THE DEADLINES.

WHEN IS THE DEADLINE FOR EARLY VOTING, ABSENTEE VOTING, GIVE US YOUR, BECAUSE WE'RE TAPING THIS AT THE BEGINNING OF OCTOBER.

WE'LL HAVE TIME, ONCE VOTERS KNOW WHEN THOSE DEADLINES ARE, THEY WON'T MISS THEM.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

WELL, AS WE SPEAK, YOU AND I ARE RECORDING ON TUESDAY, OCTOBER 6TH, AND THIS IS THE VERY FIRST DAY OF EARLY VOTING STATEWIDE AT COUNTY CLERKS OFFICES AROUND THE STATE.

THEN WE WILL SEE NEXT SATURDAY, THE VOTING LOCATIONS OPEN UP ALL OVER THE COUNTIES AND THEN WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO VOTE BY MAIL GOING ON RIGHT NOW AS WELL.

YOU HAVE UNTIL OCTOBER 20TH TO GET YOUR APPLICATION IN FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT AND OF COURSE YOU CAN DO THAT THROUGH YOUR COUNTY CLERKS OFFICE, BUT YOU CAN ALSO DO IT ONLINE AT NMVOTE.GOV.

TODAY IS TECHNICALLY THE DEADLINE TO REGISTER TO VOTE IN THIS ELECTION, BUT I DO WANT TO REMIND VOTERS THAT HERE IN NEW MEXICO, WE ALSO HAVE SAME-DAY VOTER REGISTRATION AT THE POLLS, SO IF YOU MISS TODAY'S DEADLINE AND YOU NEED TO REGISTER OR YOU NEED TO UPDATE YOUR REGISTRATION, YOU CAN PHYSICALLY GO INTO ANY IN-PERSON POLLING LOCATION AND REGISTER AND GET YOUR BALLOT AT THE SAME TIME.

SO WE DO MAKE THAT OPTION AVAILABLE AS WELL.

>>LORENE: AND WHAT KIND OF DOCUMENTATION DO THEY BRING?

>>MAGGIE: IT'S A GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE GOING TO REGISTER AND BE PROCESSED AND THEN RECEIVE A BALLOT RIGHT AWAY, BASICALLY, WE DO ASK FOR YOU TO BRING A PHYSICAL FORM OF IDENTIFICATION, GENERALLY A GOVERNMENT-ISSUED PHOTO ID LIKE A DRIVER'S LICENSE OR PASSPORT.

WE ALSO ASK YOU TO BRING SOMETHING THAT SHOWS THAT YOU RESIDE IN THE COUNTY WHERE YOU'RE REGISTERING OR UPDATING YOUR VOTER REGISTRATION.

A LOT OF TIMES WITH SAME-DAY REGISTRATION, MAYBE SOMEBODY'S MOVED FROM, LET'S SAY, LAS CRUCES TO ALBUQUERQUE AND THEY WANT TO UPDATE AND VOTE THERE, THEY DO NEED TO SHOW A BANK STATEMENT OR A UTILITY BILL SHOWING THAT THEY LIVE IN ALBUQUERQUE NOW.

BUT WE DO TRY TO MAKE IT PRETTY SIMPLE AND OF COURSE, ALL OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS, WE LIST THEM OUT AT NMVOTE.GOV SO FOLKS CAN KNOW AHEAD OF TIME WHAT THEY NEED TO BRING.

IT'S NOT AS HARD AS GETTING A REAL ID.

YOU KNOW, WE DON'T MAKE YOU BRING YOUR MITOCHONDRIAL DNA WITH YOU OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BUT YOU CAN GET IT DONE FAIRLY EASILY.

>>LORENE: OH, GOOD, GOOD.

THE OTHER THING THAT YOU OFFER SO GENEROUSLY, YOUR VOTER INFORMATION PORTAL, WHICH CAN ALSO BE FOUND AT NMVOTE.GOV.

YOU CAN FIND OUT, WELL, TELL US HOW VOTERS CAN GET THE INFORMATION THEY NEED.

>>MAGGIE: YEAH, NO, IT'S GREAT AND WE'VE REALLY EVOLVED OVER THE YEARS, SO I FEEL LIKE EVERY ELECTION, THERE'S LIKE A NEW BELL OR WHISTLE AT NMVOTE.GOV.

WHAT WE OFFER THERE IS A COMPREHENSIVE VOTER REGISTRATION AND INFORMATION PORTAL.

YOU CAN REGISTER TO VOTE, YOU CAN UPDATE A VOTER REGISTRATION, YOU CAN FIND OUT WHAT DISTRICTS YOU'RE LIVING IN AND VOTING IN.

YOU CAN GET A SAMPLE BALLOT AHEAD OF TIME, A LOT OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING MYSELF, TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT.

>>LORENE: I DO.

>>MAGGIE: BEFORE I VOTE, I HAVE TO, I CAN'T REMEMBER EVERYTHING THAT'S ON EVERY SINGLE BALLOT, SO I DEFINITELY LOOK AND SEE.

YOU CAN APPLY FOR AN ABSENTEE BALLOT, ANOTHER OPTION IS THAT YOU CAN APPLY TO ALWAYS RECEIVE AN ABSENTEE BALLOT THROUGH THE MAIL, THAT'S AN OPTION IN NEW MEXICO NOW.

YOU CAN FIND OUT WHERE TO VOTE IN PERSON, YOU CAN SEE ALL OF OUR EARLY VOTING SITES AND OUR ELECTION DAY LOCATIONS, AND THE DAYS AND HOURS THAT THEY'RE OPEN, AND FIND THE ONE THAT'S CLOSEST TO YOU.

>>LORENE: WELL, YOU'RE OPEN A LOT, I MEAN, IT'S REALLY KIND.

ELECTION DAY, IT'S A WONDERFUL FEELING TO VOTE ON ELECTION DAY, BUT THERE ARE LINES AND ALL THAT AND TO BE ABLE TO JUST GO EITHER BY MAIL AND ABSENTEE BALLOT OR JUST GO EARLY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU HAVE A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

>>MAGGIE: YEAH, SEVERAL WEEKS AND TECHNICALLY, STARTING TODAY, WE HAVE 28 DAYS OF EARLY VOTING FOLKS CAN GO IN UP UNTIL HALLOWEEN.

WE HAVE EARLY VOTING AT THE CLERK'S OFFICE FOR THE FIRST COUPLE OF WEEKS, AND THEN, OF COURSE, AT THE LOCATIONS ACROSS THE COUNTIES.

EVERY EARLY VOTING LOCATION IS ALSO AN ELECTION DAY LOCATION, SO IF YOU'RE DRIVING BY AND YOU KEEP REMINDING YOURSELF, GOSH, I NEED TO GO THERE AND EARLY VOTE, HALLOWEEN COMES AND GOES, YOU FORGOT YOU CAN STILL GO ON TUESDAY THE THIRD TO THAT LOCATION OR ANY POLLING LOCATION AND CAST YOUR BALLOT.

>>LORENE: THANK YOU, YOU DO MAKE IT EASY.

SO NMVOTE.GOV IS THE KEY TO EVERYTHING, EXCEPT THAT YOU DO HAVE A SPECIAL ONE, THE VOTERS GUIDE THAT GIVES INFORMATION ABOUT THE CANDIDATES, THAT'S A LITTLE LONG.

DO YOU WANT TO GIVE IT TO US?

>>MAGGIE: SURE, ACTUALLY, THE VOTERS GUIDE REALLY JUST COVERS THE STATEWIDE QUESTIONS, SUCH AS CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS, BOND ISSUES, IT DOES GIVE YOU A GUIDE AROUND YOUR BALLOT, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO GO INTO EVERY SINGLE DETAILED OFFICE.

THAT'S WHY WE ENCOURAGE FOLKS TO GET THAT SAMPLE BALLOT AT NMVOTE.GOV.

BUT THE VOTERS GUIDE, OFTEN FOLKS ARE LOOKING AT THE LONG, LENGTHY QUESTIONS ON THE BACK OF YOUR BALLOT.

WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS.

>>LORENE: I KNOW, AND I NEED TWO SETS OF READING GLASSES.

>>MAGGIE: YOU DEFINITELY DO, YOU DEFINITELY DO.

BUT IF YOU GET THE VOTERS GUIDE, AGAIN, WE HAVE THAT AVAILABLE ONLINE AS WELL.

YOU'LL KNOW SORT OF WHAT THE POINT OF THE QUESTIONS IS, THERE ARE PRO AND CON ARGUMENTS, AND YOU CAN MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION ABOUT HOW YOU WANT TO VOTE.

>>LORENE: YEAH, THAT'S WONDERFUL.

THE WHOLE ISSUE OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS GOT VERY, I DON'T KNOW, BECAME A BIG ISSUE, AND I FELT, IN A WAY, IT WAS A DISTRACTION, BUT WHAT WAS THE CORE OF THIS?

WHAT WERE THEY TRYING TO DO TO SAY AND THEN THEY WANTED TO, THE ADMINISTRATION WANTED TO GATHER ALL THOSE BALLOTS AND DO AN INVENTORY OF THEM, AND IT JUST SOUNDED LIKE BIG BROTHER TO ME.

SO, A, THE POST OFFICE WOULDN'T GO ALONG WITH IT, AND YOUR OFFICE WOULDN'T GO ALONG WITH IT.

>>MAGGIE: WELL, OUR OFFICE AND PLENTY OF OTHER STATES IS THE GOOD NEWS, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE THE REALITY IS OUR CONSTITUTION SAYS THAT STATES ARE IN CHARGE OF RUNNING ELECTIONS, NOT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

OF COURSE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS PASSED LAWS IN THE PAST THAT PROVIDE SOME REQUIREMENTS THAT ENSURE THAT FOLKS CAN CAST A BALLOT, THAT THERE'S EGALITARIANISM AND EQUALITY IN THE VOTE.

BUT WHAT THIS WAS PROPOSING TO DO WAS, FIRST OF ALL, NOT EVEN A LAW THAT WAS BEING PASSED BY CONGRESS, IT WAS JUST SORT OF A STROKE OF THE PEN BY THE PRESIDENT, SAYING THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE POSTAL SERVICE WOULD CREATE THIS HUGE LIST OF CRITERIA, INCLUDING CREATING A LIST OF AMERICAN CITIZENS TO BE ABLE TO EVALUATE WHETHER BALLOTS WERE CITIZENS OR NOT.

FUNNY THING ABOUT THAT, LORENE, IS THERE IS NO SUCH LIST, IT DOESN'T EXIST.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT SOCIAL SECURITY, YOU HAVE PERMANENT RESIDENTS AND FOLKS THAT HAVE GREEN CARDS THAT ARE PAYING INTO SOCIAL SECURITY, SO YOU CAN'T REALLY BASE IT ON SOCIAL SECURITY.

DRIVER'S LICENSES, IN MANY STATES LIKE NEW MEXICO, NON-CITIZENS CAN GET A DRIVER'S LICENSE, NOT NECESSARILY A REAL ID.

A REAL ID IS PROBABLY THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE LIST, BUT NOT EVERY AMERICAN ELIGIBLE CITIZEN HAS A REAL ID.

SO THERE WAS REALLY NO WAY, IT WAS SORT OF PUTTING THE POSTAL SERVICE IN A LOSE-LOSE SITUATION, WHERE THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BE ABLE TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T EXIST OR THAT THEY CAN'T CREATE EVEN FROM OTHER DATA SETS.

SO THE REALITY IS, YOUR STATE AND LOCAL ELECTION OFFICIALS, ALONG WITH MVD, WHICH MOST OF OUR STATES COORDINATE TOGETHER NOW, HAVE THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE LIST OF WHO'S A CITIZEN AND WHO'S NOT, SO OUR LISTS ARE FAR MORE ACCURATE THAN ANYTHING THE POSTAL SERVICE COULD HAVE POSSIBLY COBBLED TOGETHER IN A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

>>LORENE: AND THE POSTAL SERVICE, WHICH WE DEPEND ON MIGHTILY, DOES HAVE A FEW STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS.

IT MIGHT BE BETTER RUN AT SOME POINT, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO HAND A JOB LIKE THIS TO SOMEBODY WHO'S AN INSTITUTION THAT'S STRUGGLING WITH THEIR REAL JOB.

>>MAGGIE: NO, FOR SURE.

IT'S FAIR AND THE REALITY IS, IT'S NOT THEIR JOB; THAT'S OUR JOB.

IT'S FUNNY TO ME, THIS NOTION OF CREATING THESE ADDITIONAL LAYERS OF BUREAUCRACY FROM THE STANDARD BARRIER OF THE PARTY THAT IS TRYING TO MAKE GOVERNMENT SMALLER; IT SEEMS KIND OF IRONIC TO ME.

>>LORENE: YES, YES.

WELL, WE'RE SPEAKING TODAY WITH MAGGIE TOULOUSE-OLIVER, OUR SECRETARY OF STATE FOR NEW MEXICO SINCE 2016, AND THE CHIEF ELECTIONS OFFICER.

IT IS SO WONDERFUL TO HAVE YOU TELL US ABOUT THESE THINGS AND TO KNOW WHAT RESOURCES ARE AVAILABLE.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME OTHER ISSUES THAT CAME UP.

WE HAD AN ISSUE WHEN IT WAS AT THE 2020 ELECTION WITH FAKE ELECTORS, HAS THAT EVER HAPPENED AGAIN?

>>MAGGIE: FORTUNATELY, IT DID NOT HAPPEN IN 2024.

I THINK RELATEDLY, PRESIDENT TRUMP WON THE ELECTION IN 2024 OUTRIGHT AND IRONICALLY, UNLIKE 2020, THERE WEREN'T TREMENDOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ACCURACY OF THE OUTCOME WHEN HE WON THE ELECTION, UNLIKE WHEN HE LOST THE ELECTION IN 2020.

AND TO YOUR POINT, YEAH, THERE WAS A CONSPIRACY TO CIRCUMVENT FEDERAL LAW AND THE CONSTITUTION AND ESTABLISH THESE SORT OF WHAT THEY REFER TO AS ALTERNATE SETS OF ELECTORS THAT IN THE EVENT CONGRESS WERE TO DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL AND UNPRECEDENTED, WOULD HAVE BEEN THE ELECTORS.

AND AS YOU KNOW, HERE IN NEW MEXICO, UNFORTUNATELY, OUR STATE STATUTES DID NOT ALLOW US TO HOLD THOSE INDIVIDUALS CRIMINALLY LIABLE.

THEY WERE HELD CRIMINALLY LIABLE IN OTHER STATES AND WE DID, I THINK, MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THAT IS NOT A THING IN NEW MEXICO, YOU CAN'T DO IT HERE, AND REGARDLESS OF WHO WINS THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

>>LORENE: NOW, THEY TRIED TO HAVE A LITTLE LOOPHOLE, LIKE HERE WE'LL HAVE THESE ELECTORS HANDY IN CASE THEY ARE NEEDED AND THEY WERE PEOPLE THAT SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.

THEY WERE EXPERIENCED POLITICIANS WHO, I THINK, FOUND A LOOPHOLE AND TRYING TO SEE IF THEY COULD MAKE IT WORK.

WELL, IT DIDN'T WORK.

SO, AND YOU'RE RIGHT, IN OTHER STATES, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED, BUT NOT IN OUR STATE.

>>MAGGIE: RIGHT.

>>LORENE: A LITTLE QUESTION ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT JURISDICTIONS, BECAUSE THERE'S A STATISTIC, TELL ME IF THIS IS RIGHT.

LOCAL ELECTIONS ARE IMPORTANT, BUT ONLY A QUARTER OF ELIGIBLE VOTERS IN THE COUNTY TURNED OUT IN ONE OF THE LAST ELECTIONS.

WHEN CITIES GOT TO CONSOLIDATE MUNICIPAL AND SCHOOL ELECTIONS IN THE COUNTY-RUN ELECTIONS, 17,000 PEOPLE MORE VOTED IN SANTA FE COUNTY AND STILL IT IS ONLY, AT THAT TIME, 17% OF THE ELIGIBLE VOTERS, IT MOVED UP TO 24% IN 2021 BECAUSE IT WAS A MAYORAL RACE.

QUESTION, HOW CAN WE INCREASE TURNOUT, I REMEMBER WHEN TAYLOR SWIFT, THE MUSICIAN, TOLD PEOPLE TO REGISTER TO VOTE, USED HER BULLY PULPIT TO DO SOMETHING REALLY POWERFUL AND 400,000 PEOPLE CLICKED ON TO THE FEDERAL VOTING INFORMATION SITE AND REGISTERED TO VOTE.

THAT'S MAKING A DIFFERENCE.

>>MAGGIE: ABSOLUTELY, AND I THINK IT GOES BACK TO WHAT YOU AND I DISCUSSED AT THE BEGINNING, LORENE, WHICH IS, I THINK WE HAVE THIS PARADOX THAT FOLKS OFTEN VOTE MORE REGULARLY AND IN GREATER NUMBERS FOR THE OFFICE OF PRESIDENT, LET'S SAY, WHICH ARGUABLY HAS THE LEAST DIRECT IMPACT ON MOST PEOPLE'S DAILY LIVES, INSTEAD OF THINGS LIKE SCHOOL BOARD AND CITY COUNCIL, WHICH WE KNOW DOES HAVE A DIRECT IMPACT ON PEOPLE'S DAILY LIVES.

AND WHAT IT IS THAT THE REALITY IS THAT THERE IS SO MUCH MONEY IN POLITICS AND IT'S REGULATED TO A FAIRLY GOOD DEGREE, HOWEVER, THERE IS JUST SO MUCH OF IT THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST SO MUCH MORE AWARE OF A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OR A STATEWIDE ELECTION LIKE A GUBERNATORIAL OR CONGRESS THAN THEY ARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON AT THEIR CITY AND LOCAL LEVEL.

SO UNTIL WE CAN CREATE A WAY TO HAVE SORT OF AN EQUIVALENCE OF INFORMATION, UNFORTUNATELY, THE GOOD NEWS, HOWEVER, IS THAT THOSE SAME KIND OF ELECTIONS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, WELL, NOW WE'RE GETTING ABOUT 25% TURNOUT, LIKE YOU SAID.

WE HAD SCHOOL DISTRICTS HERE IN NEW MEXICO THAT LITERALLY HAD 0% TURNOUT, INDIVIDUALS THAT WERE RUNNING FOR SCHOOL BOARD DIDN'T EVEN VOTE FOR THEMSELVES IN PREVIOUS ELECTIONS.

SO I'LL TAKE 25% OVER ZERO, BUT IT WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF IT WAS SO MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

>>LORENE: WELL, THE STATES, IT TURNS OUT, THAT SEND OUT A MAIL BALLOT TO EVERY VOTER, THEY REALLY DO INCREASE TURNOUT.

>>MAGGIE: THEY DO.

>>LORENE: AND THE OTHER LINE THAT I JUST LOVE, IF YOU DON'T VOTE, THEY SAY, IF YOU'RE NOT AT THE TABLE, YOU'RE PROBABLY ON THE MENU.

>>MAGGIE: ON THE MENU, LOVE THAT QUOTE.

>>LORENE: SO, IT'S A DEFENSIVE ACT.

IT'S AN OFFENSIVE ACT, TOO, YOU GET THE PEOPLE THAT YOU WANT THAT SUPPORT YOUR IDEAS AND YOU SUPPORT THEIR PLATFORM, BUT OTHERWISE, THEY COULD BE LEGISLATING ALL KINDS OF STUFF THAT SAY, WAIT A MINUTE, WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?

>>MAGGIE: WELL, THAT'S WHAT I ALWAYS SAY.

YOU MAKE SUCH A GOOD POINT AND NOT ONLY ARE YOU NOT HAVING A SAY IN THESE DECISIONS, OFTEN THEY'RE BEING MADE SOMEWHAT BEHIND YOUR BACK IF YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

ESPECIALLY GOING BACK TO THE MESSAGE FOR SORT OF YOUNG PEOPLE AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T NECESSARILY ALWAYS PARTICIPATE.

IF YOU KIND OF FRAME IT LIKE THAT, IT'S LIKE DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A SAY IN THESE DECISIONS, BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, AND IT'S NOT RIGHT, BUT A LOT OF MY COLLEAGUES IN POLITICS, ELECTED OFFICIALS, MAYBE WON'T LISTEN TO YOU IF YOU'RE NOT A REGISTERED VOTER WHO'S VOTING IN EVERY ELECTION.

UNFORTUNATELY, DESPITE ALL THE MONEY THERE IS, SOMETIMES THERE'S LIMITED DOLLARS TO SPEND ON A CAMPAIGN AND THEY'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON THE PEOPLE WHO ARE VOTING AND WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR.

>>LORENE: DO YOU REMEMBER, I THINK IT WAS, WAS IT THE 2020 ELECTION, WHERE RUDY GIULIANI LIED ABOUT SOME GEORGIA ELECTION WORKERS.

THEY GOT DEATH THREATS, AND SO HE TRIED TO SPREAD MISINFORMATION ABOUT HOW CORRUPT EVERYTHING WAS.

IT TURNED OUT HE WAS WRONG, AND HE SERIOUSLY DAMAGED THESE PEOPLE, I THINK THEY SUED HIM, DIDN'T THEY?

>>MAGGIE: THEY SURE DID, AND THEY WON A HUGE SETTLEMENT.

YEAH, HE BLATANTLY LIED AND THE THING OF IT IS, IS I'M NOT PUTTING GIULIANI ON ANY SORT OF A PEDESTAL BECAUSE THOSE ACTIONS WERE DESPICABLE, BUT IT WAS AGAIN PART OF THAT LARGER CONSPIRACY BACK IN 2020 TO REALLY OVERTURN THE WILL OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND HE WAS VERY MUCH A KEY LINCHPIN IN ALL OF THAT AND I WAS REALLY HAPPY FOR THOSE ELECTION WORKERS BECAUSE, UNFORTUNATELY, THEY WERE NOT THE ONLY ONES THAT WERE MALIGNED UNFAIRLY AND HAD DEATH THREATS AND OTHER SORTS OF JUST SO MUCH NEGATIVITY.

I MEAN, IT'S HARD TO EVEN FATHOM HOW MUCH NEGATIVITY WENT AT THOSE WOMEN FOR JUST DOING THEIR JOBS.

>>LORENE: OH, AND I THINK THEY HAD TO MOVE AROUND, THEY COULD NEVER STAY IN THE SAME PLACE TWICE, THEY HAD TO HAVE SECURITY.

THEY WERE JUST TERRIFIED ALL THE TIME BECAUSE THERE'S THE CRAZY FACTOR OUT THERE, YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN SOME INDIVIDUAL HAS HAD IT AND IT'S YOUR FAULT.

>>MAGGIE: WELL, THAT'S RIGHT AND I THINK IF YOU'RE A PERSON WHO WAS AROUND DURING 9/11 AND YOU SAW RUDY GIULIANI BEING AMERICA'S MAYOR AND STANDING UP FOR AMERICANS AND BELIEVING THAT THIS IS AN HONORABLE MAN, WHEN HE LIED THE WAY THAT HE DID, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BELIEVE THAT AND THEY'RE GOING TO FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT IT, BUT IT'S WRONG.

>>LORENE: THAT'S WHAT I WORRY ABOUT IS THE FUTURE EFFECTS.

IT'S THE BIG LIE AND VOTERS WILL DOUBT ELECTION RESULTS, VOTERS WILL THINK, WHY BOTHER, THIS OLD LADY HAD SAID ONCE ABOUT VOTING, OH, SHE SAID, I DON'T VOTE, IT ONLY ENCOURAGES THEM.

BUT SO THE REPUTATION OF THE FOUNDATION, THE TOUCHSTONE OF OUR DEMOCRACY, WHICH IS VOTING, THEN SUDDENLY PEOPLE THINK, AH, I WON'T BOTHER AND IT'S SO CRUCIAL.

>>MAGGIE: WELL, AND I THINK EVEN THAT IS INTENTIONAL, THERE'S SO MUCH AROUND THE PSYCHOLOGY OF VOTING AND CAMPAIGNS THAT GOES TO ENCOURAGING CERTAIN FOLKS AND DISCOURAGING OTHERS FROM PARTICIPATING.

AND A LOT OF THE RHETORIC THAT WE HAVE HEARD OVER THE LAST, WELL, REALLY, I MEAN FOREVER, BUT ESPECIALLY SINCE 2016, THE LAST DECADE OR SO, HAS BEEN GEARED TOWARD DISCOURAGING A LOT OF FOLKS FROM VOTING.

IF YOU HAVE SMALLER MARGINS, THEN YOU HAVE A BETTER SHOT AT WINNING YOUR ELECTION AND ALSO MAYBE USING THE COURTS OR SOME OTHER PROCESS TO TRY TO GET A DIFFERENT OUTCOME AND THANKFULLY, OUR LEGAL SYSTEM AND OUR ELECTION CODE FEDERALLY AND AT THE STATE LEVEL HAS HELD UP OVER THE YEARS, BUT IT HAS DEFINITELY BEEN SUBJECTED TO AN ONSLAUGHT OVER THE LAST DECADE.

>>LORENE: RIGHT, AND I MUST SAY, EVEN CURRENTLY ON TELEVISION, THERE ARE SOME ADS RUNNING THAT ARE SO DISTASTEFUL, THERE'S SUCH PERSONAL ATTACKS.

AND I THOUGHT THIS IS NOT FREEDOM OF SPEECH IF YOU'RE LYING, YOU KNOW.

AND ISN'T THERE SOMEBODY, DOES SOMEBODY HAVE TO EVALUATE, BUT NO, THEY JUST WANT THE AD, THE STATIONS WANT THE AD MONEY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A LITTLE MORE CONTROL OVER WHAT COMES OUT OVER THE AIR AND THERE'S GOT TO BE A TRUTH SQUAD SOMEWHERE READY TO POUNCE.

>>MAGGIE: I THINK THERE SHOULD BE.

WELL, AND I THINK MOST IMPORTANTLY, COMING BACK TO A SENSE OF DECORUM, CIVILITY, AND POLITICAL DEBATE AND DISCOURSE.

I GREW UP PRIMARILY IN THE 80S, AND MY GRANDFATHER WAS AN OLD RADIO GUY FROM YEARS AND YEARS AGO AND REALLY HELD THAT CORE VALUE OF EQUAL TIME AND ENSURING FAIRNESS.

MY GRANDFATHER WAS A WORLD WAR II VETERAN, A CARD-CARRYING REPUBLICAN UNTIL HIS DYING DAY, BUT HE BELIEVED SO STRONGLY IN ENSURING FAIRNESS AND ACCURACY BECAUSE THAT IS REALLY, I THINK, WHAT OUR DEMOCRACY WAS BUILT ON.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET BACK TO THAT IN THIS COUNTRY BECAUSE WE ARE VERY FAR FROM THAT RIGHT NOW.

>>LORENE: WELL, WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE, WELL, WE DON'T EVEN HAVE A MINUTE, BUT GETTING CIVICS BACK IN THE SCHOOLS WOULD BE REALLY, REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT.

>>MAGGIE: I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

>>LORENE: SO WE'LL LEAVE IT ON THAT HELPFUL NOTE BECAUSE IT'S MY PLEASURE TO THANK YOU FOR BEING OUT WITH US TODAY, MAGGIE TOULOUSE-OLIVER, OUR CHIEF ELECTIONS OFFICER, OUR SECRETARY OF STATE SINCE 2016.

THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO.

>>MAGGIE: THANK YOU SO MUCH, LORENE.

>>LORENE: YOU BET AND I'M LORENE MILLS.

I'D LIKE TO THANK MY AUDIENCE, YOUR AUDIENCE OUT THERE TODAY, FOR TUNING IN AND REALLY THINK ABOUT, REMEMBER, YOUR VOICE IS YOUR VOTE, SO BE SURE TO VOTE.

I'M LORENE MILLS, REPORT FROM SANTA FE .

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK REPORT FROM SANTA FE IS MADE POSSIBLE, IN PART, BY GRANTS FROM THE NEW MEXICO MUNICIPAL LEAGUE, A BETTER NEW MEXICO THROUGH BETTER CITIES AND FROM THE HEALY FOUNDATION, TAOS, NM.

♪ MUSIC