>> MILLIONS POURING INTO GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN COFFERS.

MIKE PENCE STRUGGLING TO MAKE THE DEBATE STAGE.

PLUS, A FIGHT OVER A PROPOSED MEDICAL PRIVACY RULE AND MORE.

FROM THE TELEVISION STUDIOS AT WFYI, IT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THE WEEK ENDING JULY 21st, 2023.

>> INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE SUPPORTERS OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

>> THIS WEEK MORE THAN NINE MONTHS AWAY FROM THE GOP PRIMARY FOR INDIANA'S OPEN GOVERNOR'S SEAT, THE RACE IS SHAPING UP TO BE ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE IN STATE HISTORY.

MORE THAN $5 MILLION FLOWED INTO CAMPAIGN COFFERS IN THE FIRST HALF OF THIS YEAR ALONE.

>> U.S.

SENATOR MIKE BRAUN TOOK IN THE BIGGEST HAUL.

MORE THAN $2 MILLION.

THAT'S DOUBLE WHAT LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SUZANNE CROUCH BROUGHT IN OVER THE FIRST HALF OF 2023.

FORT WAYNE BUSINESSMAN ERIC DODEN WASN'T FAR BEHIND BRAUN, ADDING $1.8 MILLION TO HIS CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT.

BUT ONE-THIRD OF DODEN'S FUNDRAISING TOTAL WAS A CONTRIBUTION FROM HIS FATHER, AND ONLY ABOUT 150 INDIVIDUALS, BUSINESSES, AND ORGANIZATIONS DONATED TO HIS CAMPAIGN SO FAR THIS YEAR, COMPARED TO MORE THAN DOUBLE THAT FOR CROUCH AND MORE THAN TRIPLE THAT FOR BRAUN.

THE SPENDING HASN'T TRULY BEGUN IN EARNEST YET.

DODEN HAS SPENT THE MOST THIS YEAR SO FAR, AND ALL THREE CAMPAIGNS HAVE DIRECTED MUCH OF THEIR SPENDING TOWARDS CONSULTING AND RESEARCH.

>> WHAT DO THESE FUNDRAISING NUMBERS TELL US ABOUT THE STATE OF THE RACE?

IT'S THE FIRST QUESTION FOR OUR INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW PANEL.

DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY.

REPUBLICAN CHRIS MITCHEM.

JOHN SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS, AND NIKI KELLY, EDITOR IN CHIEF OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

I'M INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATEHOUSE BUREAU CHIEF, BRANDON SMITH.

ANN DELANEY, WHAT STANDS OUT TO YOU ABOUT THESE NUMBERS?

>> THE FIRST THING THAT STANDS OUT IS WHAT A JOKE INDIANA STATE CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAWS.

ANYBODY, EVEN THE FATHER OF A CANDIDATE, CAN DONATE $600,000 TO A CAMPAIGN, THAT'S RIDICULOUS.

WHEN YOU TAKE THESE NUMBERS, AND THEY'RE IMPRESSIVE, BUT WHEN YOU DIVIDE THEM UP BY THE NUMBER OF CONTRIBUTEORS OR PEOPLE PUTTING MONEY INTO THIS RACE, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN AVERAGE CAMPAIGN DONATION OF BETWEEN $3,000 AND $4,000 APIECE.

THIS ISN'T BEING DRIVEN BY WHAT THE VOTERS WANT.

THIS IS AN INVESTMENT BY THE MONEYED CLASS IN WHO IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT GOVERNOR, THEY THINK.

I BET YOU YOU WILL FIND OVERLAP IN CONTRIBUTIONS TO CROUCH AND TO BRAUN FROM THE SAME KIND OF PEOPLE WHO ARE -- THEY'RE INVESTING IN IT.

THEY'RE BEEG STOCK IN WHO THE NEXT GOVERNOR IS TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR PHONE CALLS GET RETURNED OR WHAT THEY THINK IS IMPORTANT GETS EMPHASIZED.

THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH OUR FINANCE LAWS.

THERE ARE NO LIMITS.

I MEAN, NO EFFECTIVE LIMITS IN INDIANA AT ALL.

DISCLOSURE IS VIRTUALLY MEANINGLESS AS WELL.

IT IS A JOKE.

IT'S SOMETHING WE OUGHT TO DEAL WITH, AND I DON'T SEE A WIT'S DIFFERENCE IN ISSUES BETWEEN THESE THREE CAMPAIGNS.

OKAY?

>> WE DON'T KNOW A LOT OF THE ISSUES OF THE THREE CAMPAIGNS.

>> THEY'RE OUT THERE.

>> IT'S STILL EARLY.

>> I DON'T SEE THE AVERAGE VOTER GETTING VERY EXCITED ABOUT ANY ONE OF THE THREE OF THEM.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT ERIC DODEN BECAUSE WE EXPECTED BRAUN TO HAVE MONEY, SOME OF WHICH IS HIS OWN, ALTHOUGH NOT THIS PARTICULAR REPORTING PERIOD.

WE EXPECTED CROUCH TO HAVE MONEY BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN RAISING MONEY WITH ERIC HOLCOMB FOR EIGHT YEARS.

A LOT OF EYES I THINK WERE ON DODEN FOR CAN YOU KEEP UP?

HE IS MORE THAN KEEPING UP.

HE IS SECOND THIS CYCLE.

ONLY $400,000 BEHIND BRAUN.

COMING FROM A VERY -- A MUCH SMALLER POOL OF DONORS.

IS THAT A WORRYING SIGN?

>> I THINK TO ANN'S POINT, I THINK YOU WILL SEE A LOT OF OVERLAP WITH THE BRAUN AND CROUCH.

DO THEY SPILL OVER TO DODEN?

YOU MIGHT SEE THAT MORE AS THE CAMPAIGN PROGRESSES.

IF HE JUST HANGS AROUND, CONTINUES TO HANG AROUND, CONTINUES TO ACTUALLY PREACH THE I'M THE OUTSIDER MESSAGE THAT WAS SO EFFECTIVE FOR BRAUN LAST YEAR, WHICH AT THIS POINT IN THE RACE HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN TRULY HAVE THAT MESSAGE.

I THINK THAT WOULD BE NOTABLE.

I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO THE HEDGE CONTINUALLY BEING RAISED TO IF YOU WANT TO JUMP INTO THIS RACE, THIS IS THE KIND OF MONEY YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE PLAYING WITH.

I LOOKED, AND I KNOW IT WAS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT OPPONENTS, BUT AROUND THIS TIME IN THE LAST ELECTION CYCLE I THINK GOVERNOR HOLCOMB HAD $6 MILLION.

YOU HAVE THREE SEPARATE ONES THAT COMBINED HAVE ALMOST DOUBLED THAT AND THAT MAKES YOU REALIZE JUST HOW MUCH MONEY AND INVESTMENT IS GOING INTO THIS RACE.

IF THEY CONTINUE TO BE ON THE SAME LEVEL, I THINK THAT CONTINUES TO TELL PEOPLE THAT THIS IS A WIDE-OPEN RACE BETWEEN AT LEAST THOSE THREE.

>> OBVIOUSLY MONEY GOES UP, SO OBVIOUSLY THIS IS GOING TO BE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN MOST RACES.

EVEN ADJUSTING FOR THE USUAL INFLATION, THIS IS A REALLY EXPENSIVE RACE.

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

>> IF YOU ARE MIKE BRAUN OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE PRETTY HAPPY.

YOU HAVE THE MOST DONORS AND THE MOST MONEY AT THIS STAGE BOTH RAISED IN THIS PERIOD AS WELL AS CASH ON HAND.

IF YOU ARE SUZANNE CROUCH, YOU RAISED HALF OF WHAT MIKE BRAUN DID.

ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THOSE NUMBERS?

>> THE PUBLIC PRONOUNCEMENT OR THE PRIVATE PRONOUNCEMENT BECAUSE THEY'RE PROBABLY DIFFERENT.

NOBODY WANTS TO BE TRAILING IN THE MONEY RACE.

IT'S NOT AS IMPORTANT AS THE ELECTION THAT TAKE PLACE WHEN VOTERS GO TO THE POLLING PLACE, BUT IT'S PRETTY DARN IMPORTANT.

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE A RACE WITH HIGH-PROFILE CANDIDATES WHO ARE ALL WELL-FUNDED AND ALL HAVE IOUs THAT THEY CAN COLLECT FROM PARTY MEMBERS ACROSS THE STATE.

SO EVERYBODY IS TRYING TO READ THE TEA LEAVES, AND MONEY RAISED IS CERTAINLY AN INDICATOR.

THE MITIGATOR HERE IS THIS IS NOT A SITUATION WHERE SOMEONE IS STRUGGLING TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT, IS TRYING TO GET -- WE'VE SEEN THAT IN A LOT OF ELECTIONS WHERE IF I COULD GET ON THE AIR, IF I COULD SUSTAIN CARPET BOMBING IN TERMS OF MESSAGING IN ALL THE MAJOR MARKETS FROM NOW TO ELECTION DAY, I COULD DO SOMETHING.

WELL, THEY CAN'T.

THEY CAN ALL ESSENTIALLY DO THAT.

>> NO, THEY CAN'T.

NOT YET.

NOT IN CHICAGO.

>> YEAH, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO -- AT SOME POINT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO -- >> THEY'RE WELL-POSITIONED.

>> THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT MORE THAN $2 MILLION TO DO THAT.

>> I'M TALKING IN THIS FINAL STRETCH RUN.

AS WE GET FURTHER ALONG, PEOPLE, PRESUMABLY, SOME PEOPLE ARE HOLDING BACK BECAUSE THEY WANT TO SEE HOW -- >> BUT THEY'RE ALSO SPENDING IT TOO.

>> TO THAT EXTENT DON'T FORGET THAT -- WHAT IS THE TERM USED?

NOT DOUBLE DIPPING.

PLAYING BOTH SIDES OR THREE SIDES.

>> INVESTING.

BUYING STOCK.

HOW ABOUT THAT?

>> THIS IS IN THE PRIMARY STABLE, BUT WAIT UNTIL THE GENERAL, AND YOU'LL SEE THE SAME THING.

NOTHING NEW.

YOU HAVE COMPANIES.

YOU HAVE PROMINENT BUSINESS PEOPLE FROM BOTH PARTIES WHO HEDGE THEIR BETS AND WILL GIVE SIMILAR AMOUNTS IT ON BOTH CANDIDATES.

>> I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE SPENDING.

YEAH, WE'RE NOT SEEING THE SORT OF SPENDING NECESSARILY IN BIG NUMBERS YET THAT THE PUBLIC SEES CERTAINLY.

SOME ADVERTISING CERTAINLY FROM EACH CAMPAIGN.

PARTICULARLY DODEN, I NOTICED, BUT -- AND THAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE BECAUSE HE IS THE LOWEST NAME RECOGNITION OF THE FIELD AT THIS POINT, BUT SO MUCH MONEY BEING SPENT ON CONSULTANTS.

WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?

>> I DECIDED I NEED TO CHANGE MY PROFESSION AND BE A CONSULTANT BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY IT'S $5 MILLION SO FAR THIS YEAR.

I WENT BACK AND LOOKED GOING BACK TO WHEN DODEN STARTED AND ADDED UP ALL OF THEM.

WE'RE AT, LIKE, $12.8 MILLION ALREADY FOR THIS RACE.

THEY ARE SPENDING IT.

IT'S A LOT OF POLLING.

IT'S A LOT OF CONSULTING.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CONSULTANTS ARE TELLING THEM.

I HOPE SOME OF THE CONSULTANTS ARE SAYING YOU NEED TO GET OUT BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MANY PEOPLE, AND YOU'RE SPLITTING THE VOTE.

YOU NEED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND WE MIGHT GET A NEW CANDIDATE SOON.

>> WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT IN A LITTLE WHILE.

>> NO CONSULTANT THAT'S BEING PAID IS ADVISING HIS CANDIDATE TO GET OUT OF THE RACE.

I CAN TELL YOU THAT.

>> THAT'S PROBABLY -- I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A SAFE BET.

>> HAS ANYONE TOLD THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FOLKS THAT THIS IS INDIANA'S FASTEST GROWING INDUSTRY.

FORGET ABOUT BIOTECH.

FORGET ABOUT DIESEL -- NOT DIESEL.

BATTERY MANUFACTURING.

>> MAYBE THE LEAP DISTRICT WILL FILL UP WITH CONSULTING FIRMS.

>> POLITICO, SPEAKING OF MONEY AND POLITICS, REPORTED THIS WEEK THAT WHILE SIX OF THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ARE ONE SMALL STEP AWAY FROM QUALIFYING FOR THEIR PARTY'S DEBATE NEXT MONTH, FORMER INDIANA CANDIDATE AND VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE ISN'T ONE OF THEM.

>> THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE DEBATE QUALIFICATIONS ARE NOT AN EASY BAR TO CLEAR.

CANDIDATES MUST HAVE AT LEAST 40,000 UNIQUE DONORS WITH 200 COMING FROM AT LEAST 20 DIFFERENT STATES OR TERRITORIES, AND THEY MUST POLL AT AT LEAST 1% IN THREE RNC-APPROVED NATIONAL POLLS OR IN TWO SUCH POLLS PLUS TWO POLLS IN EARLY PRIMARY STATES.

DONALD TRUMP, RON DESANTIS, CHRIS CHRISTIE, NIKKI HALEY, VIVEK RAMASWAMY AND TIM SCOTT ARE ALL WITHIN ONE STATE-LEVEL POLL FROM QUALIFYING FOR THE AUGUST DEBATE AND APPEAR ALMOST CERTAIN TO DO SO.

WHILE MIKE PENCE NEEDS ONE MORE STATE-LEVEL POLL, HE ALSO APPEARS NOT TO HAVE REACHED THE 40,000 DONOR THRESHOLD YET EITHER.

>> CHRIS MITCHEM, I THINK I PROBABLY EXPECT BETWEEN NOW AND I THINK WHAT IS IT LATE AUGUST THAT THE DEBATE ACTUALLY IS, I EXPECT MIKE PENCE TO REACH THE THRESHOLD HE NEEDS TO REACH, BUT IS IT A BAD SIGN THAT HE IS RIGHT NOW FAILING ON THE DONOR FRONT?

>> IT'S NOT THE GREATEST.

REALLY I THINK A LOT OF IT CAN BE PUT ON TO HIM FOR EVEN ANNOUNCING SO LATE WHEN MOST EVERYBODY IN AMERICA KNEW HE WAS GOING TO THROW HIS HAT IN THE RING.

WHY DID YOU WAIT SO LONG?

I'M NOT SO SURE.

I DO THINK TIME IS A FACTOR.

IF HE WOULD HAVE ANNOUNCED A MONTH OR TWO EARLIER, WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

I THINK THE INITIAL PUSH OF DONORS YOU GET WHEN YOU ANNOUNCE AND THEN THE TRICKLE THAT YOU GET AFTER THAT KNOWING THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS YOU'RE NOW A HORSE IN THE RACE PROBABLY WOULD HAVE PUT HIM AT THE POSITION WHERE WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

EVEN THEN, DON'T GET ME WRONG, I THINK IF HE -- IF THINGS FALL OUT AND HE IS NOT A MEMBER OF THIS LATEST DEBATE, THAT WILL CERTAINLY HURT HIS CHANCES, BUT I'M NOT SO SURE THAT WOULD COMPLETELY ELIMINATE HIM FROM THE RACE SIMPLY FROM THE FACT THAT IF YOU LOOK AT EVERY NATIONAL AVERAGE POLL, HE IS RUNNING THIRD BEHIND OBVIOUSLY TRUMP AND DESANTIS.

THESE ELECTIONS NOW, THEY'RE NO LONGER THE LET ME TAKE MY FIVE MINUTES TO SHARE MY VIEW TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

IT'S NOW A SMACKDOWN, DRAG 'EM OUT SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST OF MAKE SURE YOU DON'T SAY ANYTHING THAT ENDS YOUR CAMPAIGN RIGHT THEN.

>> HECK, THAT'S IF TRUMP EVEN SHOWS UP TO THAT FIRST DEBATE,.

>> WHICH IS TRUE.

>> WHICH IS UP IN THE AIR.

>> YOU SAW HIM MISS ONE, AND OBVIOUSLY HE IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL.

>> WITH MIKE PENCE IF YOU ARE ADVISING HIM, WHICH I DON'T THINK WOULD EVER BE SOMETHING -- >> I'VE DONE THAT, ACTUALLY.

>> OPPOSITION RESEARCH IS NEEDED.

>> YOU READ THE BOOK, RIGHT?

>> IF YOU ARE ADVISING MIKE PENCE, ARE YOU TELLING HIM TO BE A LITTLE CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE HE IS AT RIGHT NOW?

>> I DON'T THINK MIKE PENCE CAN GET THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION UNDER ANY SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES.

HE HAD THE CHANCE.

HE DID THE RIGHT THING ON JANUARY 6th, OKAY?

HE DID THE RIGHT THING, BUT HE OBVIOUSLY NEVER READ PROFILES IN COURAGE BECAUSE WHEN YOU DO THE RIGHT THING AND YOU CARRY IT THROUGH, YOU'RE SAYING POLITICS IS NOT AS IMPORTANT.

HE TRIED TO STRADDLE IT.

HE TRIED TO DO WHAT HE NOO HE WAS LEGALLY OBLIGATED BY THE LAW TO DO, AND THAT WAS TO CERTIFY JOE BIDEN AS PRESIDENT.

THEN HE TRIED TO BACKTRACK AND SAY HE WASN'T WILLING TO CRITICIZE TRUMP.

HE WASN'T WILLING.

HE TRIED TO HAVE A FOOT IN EACH KIND OF CAMP, AND THAT MAKES HIM UNAPPEALING TO TOO MANY PEOPLE.

I MEAN, I KNOW HE IS APPEALING TO THE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIANS, OKAY.

ALL RIGHT.

BUT THAT'S NOT A LARGE ENOUGH GROUP EVEN IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO GET THE NOMINATION.

HE HAS MANAGED TO IRRITATE THOSE WHO WANTED HIM TO STAND UP AS A BADGE OF COURAGE AND SAY THIS ISN'T OUR PARTY, THIS ISN'T WHAT WE STAND FOR, AND HE WOULDN'T DO THAT.

HE HAD A CHANCE TO GO DOWN IN HISTORY, AND HE GAVE IT UP.

I DON'T THINK HE CAN GET THE NOMINATION.

>> IN TERMS OF GETTING TO THE DEBATE, I AGREE WITH CHRIS THAT THE DEBATES ARE NOT ONCE THEY ONCE WERE, AND I THINK A LOT OF THAT CHANGED WITH TRUMP.

REALISTICALLY THEY CAN MAKE OR MORE LIKELY BREAK A CAMPAIGN.

WE'VE SEEN THAT.

WE SAW THAT WITH TRUMP IN 2016.

IN THE SORT OF DEBATE WE EXPECT, WHETHER TRUMP IS INVOLVED OR NOT, IS THAT A GREAT VENUE FOR MIKE PENCE TO BE IN?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY I THINK HE WOULD DO FINE IN A DEBATE, BUT I THINK THAT PEOPLE LIKE CHRIS CHRISTIE OR RON DESANTIS, I MEAN, THEY ARE SO MUCH MORE FORCEFUL AND -- >> AND WILLING TO GO DOWN TO THE LEVEL THAT TRUMP SORT OF HAS ESTABLISHED.

>> I THINK THEY'LL STEAL THE SHOW NO MATTER WHAT IF THEY GET ON A STAGE WITH TRUMP, WHICH I'M NOT SURE WILL EVER OCCUR.

I'M NOT SURE I'M CONVINCED THAT IF HE HAD GOTTEN IN A MONTH BEFORE, HE WOULD BE FINE.

HE GOT IN ABOUT THE SAME TIME AS CHRIS CHRISTIE DID.

NOT TOO FAR AFTER A COUPLE OF OTHERS.

>> TIM SCOTT AROUND THE SAME TIME.

>> THEY GOT IN AROUND A COUPLE OF WEEKS OF EACH OTHER, AND THEY HAVE MANAGED TO HIT THE NUMBERS THAT THEY NEED TO.

SO >> I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT CHRIS CHRISTIE.

EVEN IF TRUMP IS ON THE STAGE, I THINK HE IS GOING TO DOMINATE.

MIKE PENCE IS GOING TO BE -- IF HE MAKES IT, WOULD BE AN ALSO-RAN.

SO IS SCOTT FOR THAT MATTER.

>> HERE'S THE PROBLEM FOR MIKE PENCE TOO, BRINGING UP CHRIS CHRISTIE, DESANTIS IS NOT PLAYING THE TRUMP WAS WRONG, I AM -- HE IS NOT PLAYING THAT.

HE IS I'M A BETTER VERSION OF DONALD TRUMP.

>> YOU'RE NOT GETTING THAT FROM CHRIS CHRISTIE.

>> CHRIS CHRISTIE IS TRUMP WAS YONK, I AM STANDING IN OPPOSITION TO THAT.

>> WHICH IS WHAT PENCE SHOULD HAVE DONE.

>> PENCE KIND OF LEANS IN THAT DIRECTION.

HE KIND OF LEANS.

HE GOES BACK AND FORTH, BUT ISN'T THAT A PROBLEM FOR PENCE?

HE IS NOT GOING TO WIN THE TRUMP WING, AND HE ISN'T FIRMLY ON THE SIDE THAT'S GOING TO WIN THE ANTI-TRUMP WING THAT CHRISTIE IS NOW OCCUPYING.

WE HAVE TALKED A LOT IN THE RECENT WEEKS ABOUT WHAT'S THE LANE, WHAT'S THE PATH?

WHAT IS MIKE PENCE'S LANE HERE?

>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

IT IS MUDDLED BECAUSE HE IS TRYING TO STRADDLE SEVERAL LANES AND SWIM OR RUN, USE YOUR SPORTS METAPHOR, IN SEVERAL LANES HOPING THAT HE COULD WINNOW HIS CHOICES AND PICK ONE WHEN THE TIME CAME.

MODERN DAY POLITICS ARE NOT KIND TO CANDIDATES LIKE MIKE PENCE.

I THINK A DEBATE MAYBE THREE, FOUR, FIVE CYCLES AGO HE IS A GREAT DEBATER.

HE IS A GOOD COMMUNICATOR.

>> HE WAS A RADIO HOST, AND THAT'S WHAT HE IS.

>> HE WAS A TELEVISION HOST, THE WHOLE THING.

IT'S NOT AS IF HE IS INADEQUATE IN THAT AREA, AND HE CAN DEBATE IN SORT OF THE LINCOLN-DOUGLAS STYLE.

WHAT THESE DEBATES HAVE EVOLVED INTO IS MORE POLITICAL THEATER.

YOU USE THE TERM, I THINK, ABOUT THE SLAPDOWN.

IT'S MORE >> MACDOWN.

>> IT'S MORE PROFESSIONAL WREST LING, AND WITH THE CROWD EVEN THOUGH I CAN HEAR IT NOW, THE MODERATOR SAYING, PLEASE, WE'VE ASKED THAT THERE BE -- NO.

EVERYBODY IS GOING TO TRY TO STACK THE ROOM AS WE SAW WITH CNN'S TOWN HALL MEETING, AND YOU CAN BARELY HEAR THE QUESTIONS BECAUSE OF THE CAT CALLS AND SO FORTH.

THAT DOESN'T PLAY TO MIKE PENCE'S STRENGTHS.

>> OR TO THE TV AUDIENCE FOR THAT MATTER.

>> IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT POLITICAL LANDSCAPE, AND THAT'S JUST -- I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A GOOD THING, BAD THING.

IT'S JUST DIFFERENT.

>> IT IS WHAT IT IS.

>> THE GOAL IN THE DEBATE AND IN THIS RACE SHOULD BE I'M THE COOL, CALM, COLLECTED ONE THAT'S GOING TO TALK ABOUT POLICY AND NOT RILE YOU UP ABOUT ALL THESE CULTURAL ISSUES BECAUSE IT'S NOT EFFECTIVE.

>> THAT'S PROBABLY THE LANE, SCARE AND INTIMIDATE.

>> CURRENT FEDERAL MEDICAL PRIVACY RULES ALLOW PRIVATE INFORMATION TO BE SHARED WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT AND GOVERNMENT AGENCIES FOR INVESTIGATING POSSIBLE VIOLATIONS OF STATE LAWS OR FOR THE PROTECTION OF PUBLIC HEALTH.

A PROPOSED CHANGE BY THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WOULD SHIELD PATIENTS' INFORMATION EVEN FROM LAW ENFORCEMENT WHEN IT RELATES TO REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH CARE IN STATES WHERE ABORTION IS LEGAL.

19 ATTORNEYS GENERAL SAY THAT PROPOSAL IS BASED ON FEARMONGERING, SINCE NO STATES THAT OUTLAW OR HEAVILY RESTRICT ABORTION ACCESS PENALIZE PEOPLE WHO SEEK ABORTIONS.

BT ABORTION RIGHTS ADVOCATES QUESTION WHY STATE ATTORNEYS GENERAL WOULD WANT ACCESS TO PATIENTS' PRIVATE HEALTH INFORMATION IF THEY WEREN'T PLANNING ON PROSECUTING THEM.

THEY ARGUE THE GOAL IS TO SCARE PARENTS FROM SEEKING ABORTIONS, EVEN WHEN LEGAL.

>> JON SCHWANTES WHY WOULD TODD ROKITA WANT ACCESS TO THIS PARTICULAR PRIVATE HEALTH INFORMATION?

>> WILD GUESS.

I MEAN, HERE'S A MAN WHO HAS SHOWN TIME AND AGAIN THAT HE IS OPPOSED TO ABORTION ALMOST UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

HE HAS DRAWN THAT LINE IN THE SAND.

THAT'S BEEN ONE OF HIS CALLING CARDS AS AN OFFICE HOLDER.

OF COURSE, YOU WANT ACCESS TO THAT INFORMATION MAYBE TO IDENTIFY, MAYBE TO MAKE SURE IT'S -- >> HOW ABOUT TO INTIMIDATE?

>> I WAS GOING TO SAY, TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE AWARE THAT OTHERS ARE WATCHING.

YOU KNOW, WE JUST TALKED ABOUT HOW THE RULES HAVE CHANGED.

ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF HOW EVERYTHING HAS CHANGED.

THERE WAS A TIME WHEN REPUBLICANS ESPECIALLY WERE SAYING, YOU KNOW, DON'T GET ANYBODY BETWEEN THE DOCTOR AND PATIENT.

>> MORE THAN THAT.

HOW ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT WANTING MY PRIVATE INFORMATION IS NOT OKAY WITH ME HERE.

>> THE TWO THINGS COME TOGETHER HERE IN THE NOTION THAT BIG BROTHER, STAY AWAY.

NOW THIS IS APPARENTLY FLIPPED TO THE POINT THAT BIG BROTHER IS BAD ON FINANCIAL MATTERS, ON RELEASING TOXINS, ANY NUMBER OF THINGS THAT YOU MIGHT DO AS A COMPANY OR BUSINESS, BUT IF IT'S ABOUT YOUR PRIVATE MEDICAL, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, THEN WE NEED TO HAVE BIG BROTHER THERE FRONT AND CENTER.

>> HERE'S MY PROBLEM WITH THIS.

IF A PERSON IN INDIANA WERE TO COME TWO WEEKS FROM NOW ABORTION IS LARGELY ILLEGAL.

IF A PERSON FROM INI UNDERSTAND GOES TO ILLINOI WHERE ABORTION IS LARGELY LEGAL, RECEIVES ABORTION CARE AND COMES BACK INTO INDIANA, THEY HAVE BROKEN NO STATE LAWS, SO WHY DOES TODD ROKITA THINK HE CAN INVESTIGATE THAT?

>> THE OUT OF STATE THING IS OBVIOUSLY THE PROBLEM.

THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO HIPPA IN WHICH PROSECUTORS, POLICE, ATTORNEY GENERALS CAN GET ACCESS TO RECORDS.

I DO WANT TO POINT OUT, A JUDGE HAS TO APPROVE OF THAT SUBPOENA FOR THOSE RECORDS.

WHETHER A JUDGE WOULD, LIKE YOU JUST SAY, WELL, WHAT LAW ARE YOU INVESTIGATING IN ILLINOIS?

BUT THE FACT THAT -- IT'S LIKE BOTH SIDES ARE PREPOSITIONING TO GET THIS.

OBVIOUSLY IN-STATE I FEEL LIKE HE AND OTHER ATTORNEYS GENERAL HAVE THAT RIGHT TO GO THROUGH THE PROCESS AND TRY TO PROVE THEY ARE CASE.

>> BUT THE RULE WOULDN'T AFFECT THAT.

THE RULES ONLY ACCESS ACCESSING HEALTH INFORMATION FROM STATES WHERE ABORTION IS LARGELY LEGAL.

>> THERE'S ONLY ONE REASON TO DO IT, OKAY, AND THAT'S TO TRY TO INTEM DATE BOTH THE WOMEN SEEKING ABORTIONS AND THE DOCTORS PERFORMING THEM.

THAT'S ALL IT IS.

HE HAS VERY WEAK PROSECUTORIAL POWERS IN THIS STATE.

>> AS MOST.

>> AS MOST DO.

WHAT HE DOES IS USE THE POWER OF HIS OFFICE TO SCARE AND INTIMIDATE PEOPLE.

HE DOES IT WITH DOCTORS.

HE IS NOW DOING IT WITH BUSINESSES.

NOW HE WANTS TO GET -- THE SAME GUY WHO WAS ALL WORKED UP ABOUT A 10-YEAR-OLD'S IDENTITY, WHICH WAS NEVER REVEALED, OKAY, NOW WANTS TO KNOW THE NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LEGALLY GETTING THE SAME KIND OF LEGAL PROTECTION -- THE SAME KIND OF LEGAL MEDICAL ATTENTION THAT THAT 10-YEAR-OLD GOT.

IT IS A COMPLETE FLIP-FLOP, AND IT'S DONE AGAIN TO SCARE AND INTIMIDATE.

HE ABUSES THAT OFFICE, AND I HOPE THE SUPREME COURT TAKES HIS LICENSE AWAY.

>> WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO THE POINT I ASKED JON ABOUT, WHICH IS THE IDEA OF IT FELT LIKE THERE WAS A TIME WHEN REPUBLICANS WOULD HAVE BEEN PRETTY ANGRY AT THE IDEA OF A STATE ELECTED OFFICIAL WANTING ACCESS TO PRIVATE HEALTH INFORMATION WHEN IT DIDN'T SEEM OBVIOUS THAT THAT OFFICIAL WOULD NEED IT.

BUT BECAUSE THIS IS ABORTION, DO REPUBLICANS JUST NOT CARE?

>> I THINK ABORTION KIND OF FORCES A LOT OF PEOPLE TO COME OUT OF THE WOOD WORK EITHER ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WHETHER YOU ARE ON THE REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT SIDE.

I THINK GOING BACK TO ROKITA IN PARTICULAR, YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY A CHARGE LED BY HIM.

HE HAS SIGNED ON WITH I THINK 14 OTHER ATTORNEY GENERALS.

>> 18.

>> 18 ATTORNEY GENERALS.

I THINK MAINLY IN MISSISSIPPI.

I THINK THE QUESTION THEY'RE ASKING NOW IS IT'S NOTHING NEW THAT ABORTION REGULATIONS, RESTRICTIONS ARE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

OBVIOUSLY WITH DOBBS IT CHANGES A LOT OF IT.

I THINK A LOT OF THEIR QUESTION IS WHY NOW?

I UNDERSTAND THE NEW OVERSCAPING LANDSCAPE OF ABORTION REGULATIONS IN THE COUNTRY, BUT YOU'RE ALSO TALKING ABOUT A LOT OF REALLY BROAD DEFINITIONS IN THAT RULE.

I THINK A LOT OF IT IS, YES, THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT THE ABORTION IN PARTICULAR, BUT A LOT OF THE REQUESTS IN THE LETTER AS WELL WAS LET'S REEL IT IN, AND ARE WE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT ABORTION SPECIFICALLY OR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

>> THAT'S A VERY BROAD DEFINITION.

SURE.

>> YOU WANT TO COMPARE, JUST SUBSTITUTE COVID VACCINE FOR ABORTION.

NO.

>> YOU'RE RIGHT.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

>> CAN YOU IMAGINE IF SOMEBODY SAID WE WANT EVERYBODY IN THE STATE BECAUSE IT'S IN THE PUBLIC INTEREST TO KNOW WHO HAS SOUGHT TREATMENT, WHO HAS BEEN HOSPITALIZED?

CAN YOU IMAGINE?

WE DID SEE WHAT HAPPENED WHEN PUBLIC HEALTH TRIED TO PUSH THE ISSUE OF ACCOUNTABILITY ON THE PART OF INDIVIDUALS.

>> YEAH.

>> ALL RIGHT.

SPEAKING OF THE GOVERNOR'S RACE AND NIKI MENTIONED THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER CANDIDATE SOON.

INDIANA SECRETARY OF COMMERCE BRAD CHAMBERS ANNOUNCE HE WILL PSOON STEP DOWN AFTER TWO YEARS OF LEADING THE STATE'S ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ARM.

HE OVERSAW A MAJOR SHIFT IN HOW THE STATE PURSUES SIGNIFICANT BUSINESS INVESTMENTS.

>> CHAMBERS SIGNED A TWO-YEAR CONTRACT IN 2021 TO LEAD THE INDIANA ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION AFTER THREE DECADES RUNNING A REAL ESTATE FIRM.

DURING HIS TIME IN IEDC, THE AGENCY BEGAN PURSUING ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DEALS BY SPENDING HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ONSITE READINESS.

BASICALLY, BUYING UP LAND AND HELPING PREP IT FOR NEW COMPANIES TO MOVE IN AND BUILD MORE QUICKLY.

THAT POLICY HAS MET WITH SOME MIXED REACTION, BUT OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS THE STATE HAS ALSO SECURED SOME OF THE LARGEST, MOST ADVANCED ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITMENTS IN ITS HISTORY.

CHAMBERS' DEPARTURE FUELS GROWING SPECULATION THAT HE WILL RUN IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY FOR THE OPEN GOVERNOR'S SEAT.

THAT PRIMARY ALREADY INCLUDES A FORMER IEDC LEADER, ERIC DODEN, AS WELL AS U.S.

SENATOR MIKE BRAUN, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SUZANNE CROUCH, AND FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL CURTIS HILL.

>> NIKI KELLY, WE KNOW WHO ANN IS SUPPORTING FOR THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION.

NIKI, DOES A BRAD CHAMBERS RUN FOR GOVERNOR MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

>> I'M REALLY TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

HE AND DODEN ARE ESSENTIALLY KIND OF THE SAME PERSON WITH THE SAME -- >> POLICY.

>> YEAH, EXACTLY.

I DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT BRAD CHAMBERS.

HE HAS BEEN HESITANT TO BE OPEN WITH THE MEDIA, WITH INTERVIEWS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO MAYBE HE HAS A LANE I'M UNAWARE OF.

MAYBE HE HAS IDEAS AND PROPOSALS I DON'T KNOW ABOUT.

I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING THEM.

ON PAPER I DON'T GET IT.

>> IF YOU'RE BRAD CHAMBERS -- NOW, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF MAYBE PERSONAL WEALTH HE MIGHT HAVE, WHICH CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN A CAMPAIGN, BUT IF YOU'RE BRAD CHAMBERS, AND YOU JUST LOOKED AT THE NUMBERS WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW, WHAT ABOUT GETTING INTO THAT RACE AT THIS STAGE IS APPEALING TO YOU?

>> WELL, IT WOULDN'T BE A SHOVEL-READY CAMPAIGN, LET'S PUT IT THAT WAY.

AN ILLUSION, OF COURSE, TO WHAT HE HAS DONE IN CREATING SORT OF A LANDSCAPE FIGURATIVELY AND LITERALLY WHERE COMPANIES CAN COME IN AND HAVE PRESUMABLY A LOT OF THE RED TAPE TAKEN CARE OF AND A LOT OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE TAKEN CARE OF.

FROM THAT STANDPOINT ONE WOULD QUESTION.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT KIND OF PERSONAL WHEREWITHAL HE HAS.

HE CERTAINLY HAS BEEN AT THE LEVERS OF BIG DECISION-MAKING AND POWER, WHICH I PRESUME HAS PUT HIM -- MADE HIM VISIBLE WITH IMPORTANT CONSTITUENCY, BUT TO NIKI'S POINT, THAT OPERATING SORT OF BEHIND THE SCENES -- BEHIND THE CURTAIN MOVING THE LEVERS ISN'T NECESSARILY THE SAME SKILL SET AS BEING POUNDED BY OPPOSITION RESEARCH, BY YOED QUESTIONS.

IT MAY NOT BE FRIENDLY, ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

>> VERY BRIEFLY, IS IT SAFE TO SAY, THOUGH, THAT BRAD CHAMBERS HAS HAD THE MOST IMPACTFUL TENURE AS A SECRETARY OF COMMERCE IN AT LEAST RECENT HISTORY IN THE STATE OF I UNDERSTAND?

>> HE CERTAINLY ROCKED THE BOAT.

I TALKED TO A COUPLE OF LEGISLATORS LAST WEEK ABOUT HOW DID THIS $20 MILLION INCREASE TO THE IEDC BUDGET HAPPEN IN THE LAST SESSION.

THEY SAID CHAMBERS WAS THE HEAD OF IT, BUT THEY WENT AND TALKED TO EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL LEGISLATOR.

THEY HAD PAPERWORK AND THEIR PAMPHLETS AND LAID OUT EVIDENCE OF WHY THEY NEEDED THIS.

THAT'S A GOOD AMOUNT OF WORK FOR ME.

>> IT WOULD BE GOOD TO HEAR HOW THAT MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT AND WHY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

THAT'S INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW FOR THIS WEEK.

OUR PANEL IS DEMOCRAT ANN DELANEY, REPUBLICAN CHRIS MITCHEM, JOHN SCHWANTES, HOST OF INDIANA LAWMAKERS AND NIKI KELLY OF THE INDIANA CAPITAL CHRONICLE.

YOU CAN FIND I UNDERSTAND END WEEK IN REVIEW'S PODCAST AND EPISODES AT WFYI.ORG/IWIR OR ON THE PBS APP.

I'M BRANDON SMITH OF INDIANA PUBLIC BROADCASTING.

JOIN US NEXT TIME BECAUSE A LOT CAN HAPPEN IN AN INDIANA WEEK.

♪ >> THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE SOLELY THOSE OF THE PANELISTS.

INDIANA WEEK IN REVIEW WAS A WFYI.ORG/IWIR PRODUCTION IN ASSOCIATION WITH INDIANA'S PUBLIC BROADCASTING STATIONS.

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