♪♪ Man... I mean, look, I've been watching you for such a long time.

And every time I see you, it's a new revelation.

Because you stay with shreddin I mean.

And I try to keep it, Keep it going, and, keep people around me that that, inspire m and try to push me to to grow.

And that's what you do.

But it's like, what's so interesting about you is not only do you have obviously this mastery of playing live, but you're able to continue to reimagine even like previous recordings, like, I mean, we're talking about like a lot of your work has that sort of DNA.

This new album, Off the Record has four different sessions.

Well, actually, multiple sessions with four different configurations of people that you've taken the tapes.

Am I getting this right?

Kind of like, molded them into some of the stuff hadn't been released before.

Most of it hadn't been released before.

But molded it into like new reimaginings of those moments in time, like one of them I was at, which was the Public Records concert.

Right?

What was that, January of 2025?

That that was I mean, to hear that moment.

I was at that moment and to hear that moment is crazy.

But then it's a performance of music from in the moment.

Right?

I mean, the process kind of all came about, in, in the moment, when I, when I made that record came out in 2015, I believe and, and, through that wanted to continue.

It's just kind of a process of collective composition through improvization with, with a group of people and, and then bringing that those special moments from like a small, intimate space that's kind of can be vulnerable and, and, special and off the record and then bringing that to th studio as kind of fodder for the like the production, where I can represent that in the dream world or virtual space.

That is the recorded, recorded sound.

Because and as I found that it's, you know, something that's inspired me is, is the idea of, of the record and making a record and how that is somethin that exists outside of, of live music in some ways and, and can embody more with overdubs and studio magic or sampling or whatever the different types of processes are.

But then we can use that to be a tool to make composition, and then we can perform live and still have the freedom to create.

Right.

So I'm thinking I'm extending the idea out.

You also have these projects, such as Deciphering the Message where you're taking other recorded material that you didn't record and reimagining that differently.

Are you using a different part of your brain for that, or is it really a similar type of idea of just kind o imagining that space and time?

Sometimes I do feel like I'm using a I mean, I think I participate in the same thing because I'm using similar production techniques and, and I'm trying out things like in the technical matter that could be, similar.

But I think from my feeling, I often feel like if I'm working with finished material, it feels a little different reimagining it, because then I'm really reimagining it.

I'm not necessarily looking for a nugget of in that what happened and being like, let's accentuate that and turn this into a composition like that happened.

Versus I have a recording that is finished and sounds great and is done, and it's in a different state than just an idea.

Right?

The idea is still like an solidified composition.

And so when we're working with somebody else's work particularly, and having to reimagine that, I know there' a different weight that I feel where I'm like, oh man this already sounds good, right?

Why am I changes again?

And so I got to think about it in a different way.

It makes a lot more sense to me to be finishing a work or something that's undone, reimagining something completely for me requires a little bit of a of another, another element to be like, okay, I'm going to change.

I'm, I'm going to change this.

Not that I'm not changing the improvizations, but I maybe I don't have to, you know but if I'm going to do a remix, if I don't change anything, then I didn't do anything.

So back to this new project.

That is is by the time folk hear this, it will have already dropped completely.

Although you, made it available via vinyl before it was available digital, which is the inverse of what normally happens.

So what was the decision behind that.

Conceptually with this record?

Off the record and talking about these liv spaces and and intimate spaces, really wanting to emphasize the importance I feel of us coming together in real space in the time where everything is digitalized and there's fake bands and fake videos and it's becoming difficult to sometimes tell the difference between what's real and what's not.

And there's fake albums going out and all this and no help from the, streaming platforms like Spotify that are also investing money to a lot of things that I do not agree with, you know, and, not wanting to participate, you know, fully there and not always, you know, you know, a lot of the onu is put on the artist to be like, I'm going to change the way I'm going to, I'm going to Deplatform and this, you know, and this is where we make our are living.

And so, you know, sometimes I think i should be also on the consumer.

But really, but in, in this the spirit of it, it's like here's something physical.

This is, this is the record.

If you want to support.

Go to your local record store We're going to we're going to put this out.

We're going to put this out first.

We're not we're not completely deplatforming, but it's it's part of this thing.

And come to the show experiences come to the thin where, you know, you were there, you're on the record.

Yeah, you were on Off the Record you know And you know, that's part of it.

You know, and, and and it's not just for me like, come see your local artists go to the gigs at the, at the cafes and the things and support people because lik when I first started doing this, you know, we were struggling to get people to come in for the sessions that made In the Moment.

Right.

And now it's like, oh, I was there, you know, and it's like I'm trying to also highlight that there's this stuff is happening and it's important for us to support each other.

Both the artists and whatnot take it in our hands, come to the show, be take, take, come to my show.

So go to somebody else's show support.

Don't let it the venues close.

And don't let the robots dictate our ability to, have control over our destiny.

Oh, wow.

That's heavy.

But you just remind me.

I was at the original.

One of the original sessions, for In the Moment I was there, I was in the, Bank Vault.

[Makaya] Your on both records on both records.

Thats crazy.

Okay, no, but I think that I love hearing you say that because I think so much about that.

I have a lot of friends who you know, were signed to record labels way back when and, you know when the whole thing imploded.

Right?

A lot of record labels dropped their black music divisions or divisions that wer doing anything outside of pop, and they were really struggling.

And I have so many friends who were like, oh yeah, I downloaded bit torrents of their music.

I'm big fans.

I'm like, you're part of the problem, and I don't want to put blame out there.

But what I say is there's a certain form of activism with the supporting of the artist, sometimes just that little thing of showing up at a show of, to your point, like, you know, telling somebody about the thing, like, you know, buying the thing, that little bit of thing between all of us, we can make a difference in making it livable for an artist.

Yeah.

And and even just aside from the artists are supporting me particularly are us, but just recognizing I mean, I've had a few people in this in last weeks, a couple weeks may come to me and be like, wow, like that was really great here.

And, and, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And like, I never really been to a jazz show.

These are live.

I don't see that much live music.

And this is really special or whatever.

And I'm, I'm like, yeah.

Like things outside in the real world are, are lush and deep and and and real and, and sometimes when we are stuck in the virtual world, were, we're missing, we can be missing that, you know, and so part of that is like we put out the physical first is to encourage people who to, to buy that to, to to experienc that and also to step away from the only the streaming platforms that don't even like to play your musi in the album format or in order, and this is the work and, and this is for people who want it and, and will still make it available on all platforms, even though, you know, I may encourage people to you go to one direction or another.

And so it's a challenging out here with multinational tech and corporations that have so much control, you know, and it can feel entirely helpless.

And what what do you do.

But you do the best you can to, say something and, and do something or put yourself out there a little bit.

Just creating the music, I think helps push everything forward because it inspires people.

And I think inspiration is the first step to action.

So whether I mean, like, you know, we're not here to put up somebody, I'm not here to tell anybody what to do.

But I will say that listening to music over the years has inspired a lot of action.

And I'll tell people what to do.

Be nice to each other, take care of your neighbors, show compassion, and be the antithesi to the cruelty that's all around us, coming from the highest levels.

I heard that, that's on the record.

On the record.

Well, thank you, Makaya, I really appreciate you.

I appreciate your band.

I appreciate everythin that you're giving to the world.

Thank you.

[Makaya] Thank you.