Welcome to Capitol View, where we discuss the lates in state government and politics I'm Hannah Meisel with NPR Illin joining us this week, our David McKinney with Chicago Radio Station WBEZ.

Welcome Dave.

Hannah how are you Also here is Jason Piscia, director of the Public A Reporting Program at the Univers of Illinois, Springfield.

Glad you're here, Jason.

Great to be here, Hannah.

Well, this is a week where we may look in several months as an inflecti in Illinois's approach to the pa We had a major ruling on masks i and then Governor J.B. Pritzker announced his intention to roll back Illinois' broader mask mandate for public indoor s Now, you know, that won't go int until the 28th of February, a little more than two weeks from when this program will air.

But talk about the factors that went into this decision, Da Well, I mean, the main issue, I think, are the the rate of hospitalizations.

I mean, it's pretty clear that t like the rest of the country, is on the downhill slide of the Omicron surge.

The rate of hospitalizations since I think the high point and the second week of January has f by more than 60%.

And so that really became kind of the basis for Pritzker in lis you know, the public health dire and other epidemiologists to say some of these places where people have been having to mask up that can be re I mean, it's not a universal mas of course.

I mean, this is just going to co like restaurants, bars, museums, places that are not cov As you mentioned, schools are no But you know, if you're you're traveling, trav someplace out of state.

I mean, O'Hare Airport and Midwa Airport are not covered because they're federal spaces.

Mass transit is not covered.

And of course, health care facil hospitals, nursing homes, you're still going to have to mask up t But but this was, you know, a si where lots of other states, Democratic led states had begun doing that.

New Jersey, California, New York, to name a And I think really, Illinois and Governor Pritzker, you know, really were kind of in a spot where something needed to be don because, you know, the numbers were justifying it and politically there was increa pressure to do something.

Yeah, I mean, we've definitely s both a tumble in the Omicron sur It's been pretty remarkable.

But that's what happens when you shoot straight up and y going to have to shoot straight But you know, Jason, like Dave m there has been a pretty drastic shift in public opinion, especially in the last few month You know, we are now past our fifth wave of COVID in Illin I think in other states we might have had a sixth wave.

But, you know, tell us about just the shift in public opinion People are just kind of fed up, Yeah, I mean, even Governor Prit in his news conference this week announcing the end of the mask mandate later this month, you kn acknowledged what we already alr which is, you know, we're all tired of wearing masks And, you know, depending on wher in your part of the state, you s I mean, you know, during the hei when we were all going to Walmar or the grocery store, a lot of people wore masks.

I think when the when those mand relaxed in the summertime, very a lot of people just didn't pick it up again when it when it got put back into place at the end of the summer.

Team that with the availability of vaccine I think at this point, a lot of who want vaccines have gotten th We're in the process of getting their Their battery of vaccines and those that don't want them probably aren't going to get the So we've all sort of set in our with that as well.

So with all those factors in pla I think we've come to a point wh we're beginning to realize that how we're living with COVID now is probably how we're going to b with COVID for the foreseeable f if not beyond what we'll talked about, how we need to learn to coexist with And I think people have sort of.

Put their stake in the ground on how they will coexist with CO And that's where we stand today.

I mean, we've all seen these dozens of t pieces that have been written over the last several months, es about how families with young ki under five who can't get vaccina they feel left behind.

They feel forgotten.

Do you think that, you know, the governor's decision will be sort of small backlash from that comm You know, given that vaccines ar not available, even though, you know, they might be on the h in the next couple of months.

Yeah, I agree.

I even saw some of it this week, if you just pay attention to.

I don't know for ready to Segway into the talk about th and everything with the mask man with that and the lawsuit.

But many schools have relaxed th masking policies in light of the court d that happened last week.

And you know, a lot of people ob professing glee over this group who are eager to get the the masks off their kids.

But there are those who are youn who haven't gotten a chance to get those vaccines yet or aren't eligible for them yet because they're under the age of who are still worried about it.

You know sending those under five kids to and then they're sitting in scho all those hours per day, five da and then coming home to possibly you know, immunocompromised pare or grandparents or in passing around the virus t So yes, I do feel there there is some left behind feelin It'll be interesting to see how the politicians and those making these policies will sort of react to that or accommodate those those concerns.

You know, there is no one wants to go back to remot And I know some of the there are few school districts around the state who temporarily went back to remote school this week to deal with as while for the masking issue within schools to get sorted out All right, well, we'll talk abou the legal ruling in just a secon but Dave, I do want to ask you, you know, if we rewind back to J when Governor Pritzker officiall announced his reelection campaig he had staked it on this mission accomplished look at how we hand We handled COVID better than a lot of other, you know, especially Midwestern Do you think the governor is eag to pivot back to that messaging you know, just get beyond COVID in general to talk about his oth proclaimed progressive victories over the last three years?

Well, I think it's I think it's to sort of rally around that mes when the problem hasn't gone awa And that's just the reality of i And on top of that, you know, wh kind of the broad impact of infl and the economy is it's having on people, it's almost sort of like this, this d edged kind of thing that's hitti now, you know, the pandemic.

I think there is some relief in the pandemic that that people generally getting as sick and dy at such high rates as our earlie But the economy is the real thin So you know, to what extent he's eager to go back to I don't know.

I mean, there's a. one data point that I have kind of been paying to over the last year and a half since the start of the pandemic.

There's this thing called the COVID States project, and it's a it's a consortium created by Harvard, Northwestern, Rutgers and Northeastern University in B And they do public opinion polli you know, basically different aspects of the pandemic and one one of their questions every every time they do these p relates to to how how your gover and your respective states is doing handling the pandemic.

And they just posted numbers for the month of January.

But I pulled up the other day and you know, it's one poll, but Pritzker's numbers in January sh 39% of Illinoisans approved of his handling of the And you know, that by far is the of the pandemic and their pollin And you know, again, if it's jus if it's if it's a one off fine, but if there is polling that, that's also showing this is starting to have an impa I think you know that that could That could that could be kind of an underpi of some of their decision making because this is an issue now that unlike back in July, pe when it was mission accomplished like you said, this is an issue now that that probably is beginning you know, public officials who are trying to manage things.

Yeah, yeah.

You can see it.

You can see the stress in a lot But I think that's a this is a g who has definitely paid and touc in at certain times, you know, gone away from what, y maybe the majority has wanted, but drilled down into what he kn his voter base of voters look li But Hannah, another point real q before we move on.

You know, as divisive as things sort of seem to be in the Republican gubernatorial you know, this issue of masks is something that just sort of g Republican voters.

And if these numbers in this polling are right, you know, it seems like there's some Democrats and independents who are kind of starting to begi to swing that direction about, you know, let's let's get this thing behin So it's it's a it's a potent iss It could be hurting him and it's and it's a rallying point for Re Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, you can see that in the this week from the governor's Republican opponents, even after he announced on Wednesday that he would be li the statewide mask mandate.

It wasn't far enough because it doesn't apply to kids in schools, which leads this discussion about late Friday night Judge Raylene in Springfield, issued a temporary restraining o that she thinks should void the mask mandate for schools and the requirement that teacher and other school staff get vacci or alternatively test regularly.

So, Jason, tell us a little bit restraining order.

You know, the background of this lawsuit a what you know, who who does it a Because that seems to be still very confusing.

Yeah, even several days into thi since that ruling came down last week, by last Fri a lot of school still wondering what the legal ramifications are In a nutshell, there were 145 schools who are sued as part of this law saying that the governor didn't the authorization to end the sch This we don't have the authoriza to force their kids to wear mask And Circuit Judge right now from Sacramento right here in Springfield, issued that ruling that said the the mask mandate is null and voi That those school districts are to sort of make their own, you know, release their students from from that ma and that sort of set off a wave of confusion over last we depending on where you were throughout the state.

There were school boards that held emergency meetings on and Sunday and were issuing ruli I know I got an email from the superintendent of my sc on Sunday night indicating that they were going Still highly recommend masks, but but not force kids to wear t And that's the way it was going starting Monday morning.

So we had a talk with the kids a woke up on Monday morning to say some of your friends might not be wearing masks, but some of them might be, and we'd like you to wear masks.

it was hard for them to understa some people have to follow rules and some people don't.

But it's a good conversation to So, and again, a lot of some sch districts went with we, you know if they were part of the hundred schools, they definitely didn't Other school districts felt that they could be legally liable.

Still, even though they weren't specifically named in the lawsui so they went ahead and made masks optional as well.

Others thought that they were still had that power to put those rules in place, so including the Chicago Public Sch So we're waiting for the governo immediately appealed.

The Attorney General's Office im appealed, and we're waiting for that appeal to go through.

We expected in the next week or and we'll see what happens from It's been a confusing time and it might all get switched ag depending on how this appeal com right?

Dave, we've been waiting for thi ruling for a few weeks now since arguments happened earlier in January.

And you know, like Jason mention the appeal was almost immediate.

There was known as appeal you know, Monday morning.

Even before then, there was a re from the Circuit Court to issue a stay on the TRO, which didn't which I think caused a lot of co on Monday morning when schools were kind of caught you know, without a plan.

But was the governor caught flat Why was there no plan?

You know, it was very disruptive especially in several districts who decided among the confusion cancel in-person classes on Mond Well, I mean, it's, you know, there's always unpredictability how a court case is going to go, I don't know.

You know, this this is this is a very strange kind of set of circumstances confronting Pritzker right now b you know, as we were talking abo in the opening segment here, you there seems to be this movement to to ease up on our masking res across the board.

And even he said that, you know, the end of the month rolls aroun a few more weeks, we might see the same thing happening in scho So on one hand, you have the governor acknowledg the time is coming to an end on on the school masking mandate But at the same time, he has this really kind of terri that weakens his authority and really any kind of future go authority when it comes to deali with public health crises.

And so I think that's really kin of the justification for the app I mean, again, what could they have had a plan in place to, you know, in case things went south in a hurr as they did over the weekend to to help school districts kind of understand?

I mean, I suppose the state board of Education could have be a little more aggressive in its to people to make clear what wha But even, you know, even the the governor and Attorney Genera over the weekend weren't entirel if they were going to be, you kn if the circuit judge was going to make her ruling on staying her temporary restraining order, whi that was unlikely in the first p But you know, really the questio of whether or not they could get drawn up and, you know, quickly and sent to the fourth appellate and get some kind of relief imme I think there was just a lot of on all, you know, all around her So I don't know.

I think, you know, they still are proceeding with this legal legal fight in s of the mask mandates seeming to running out of steam.

Yeah, I mean, the governor did s earlier this week that he wanted you know, he wouldn't abide by, you know, the judge taking away his authority to reinstate a mas if, God forbid, there is another that causes yet another surge.

But, you know, I think it's really interesting.

The legal underpinnings of this is that under state law, only the Illinois Department of Public Health and local health departments can put people into quarantine.

The State Board of Education cannot do so, but you know this ruling treats masks and close contact quaranti We didn't mention that earlier.

And, you know, mandatory vaccine or testing protocols for a school staff as a form of quarantine, which, you know, I think some people would say, Y of course, this is, you know, surely the folks who filed the l Tom DeVore become very famous on interesting interpretations of t But also, I think some people would say a form of masks are a form of quarantine.

You know, this is actually.

This is to avoid quarantine, to avoid infection, but, you know, the longer this goes o regardless of how the appeal tur you know, it's kind of a you can't put toothpaste back in because even on that first day, anecdotally, my teacher friend s beginning of the day, maybe they you know, 70 80% of their kids masking by the end of the day, j first day on Monday, maybe 30 20 And you know, that's a matter of and you have some schools treati treating the ruling as you know, we're only going to apply it to who were specifically named in t if they had some of those, as Jason said, some of them are just threw up their Maybe they they got legal counse from their attorneys on call who said, You know, you better not mess with this.

You don't want to be legally lia So you better just say masks opt But it is.

It's going to be very interestin going forward because now the go has, you know, he's kind of modi his message on masks as well.

We want to have the option, even of course we want to see masks g You know, the mechanics of an ap are interesting, too, because li you know, you have to almost sor have this masking mandate still in order to go in front of a judicial panel or Supreme Court asking for relief from the Sangamon county judge's I mean, if there is no mask mandate in schools, I would imagine just about any court is going to say, Well, all what are you here for?

Why?

Why Why do you need relief from some if if there's not, you know, if there's not masks in the schools anymore?

So, you know, it's just it's a i a strange confluence of events h I think it's it's creating a major challenge and headache for all the lawyers that are involved on the state s with the governor and attorney g Definitely a good point.

Not to mention the not to mentio the politicians that we talked about, Pritzker possibly being f when this came out a week ago.

You know, the governor and his p have some time now to sort of prepare for scenario A or scenar whatever comes out of this appea And you have to wonder if you kn how hard they're working at this to come up with some sort of a r or a more orderly response to whatever happens with the appeal So so the.

The confusion and the frustratio that we are all feeling last weekend can be somehow limited after this new decision comes out.

Sure.

Well, with five minutes left, I'd like to pivot to a campaign campaign trail campaign time.

But the governor has just like every governor.

After they give a budget address they usually do a mini tour of the things that they're to build support.

And definitely, you know, get some headlines out I do.

The governor is going around and touting his 1%, you know, is a one year freeze on the 1% grocery and drug tax gas tax, one year freeze.

Other things like that, I mean, is this being received locally?

Well, I think that there needs t some serious money put behind this before it really kind of reaches the ma You know, I don't think that, yo I know he's delivered a budget a I know he's made appearances in the collar counties and in Sp and Bloomington, you know, touting touting the the this nearly billion dollars in tax relief he's he's targetin I mean, the challenge kind of in the messaging of it is like, all This is a this is it's meant as a response to inflation I mean, they've said as much, but at the same time, you know, we're talking about really a pretty kind of minuscul offering to people where I don't that, you know, if you're going into the grocery and buy in $200 worth of groceries for your fami this is going to be a two dollar that you'll see, maybe, and you won't even probably know that you got that savings.

So that's sort of the trick in the messaging to make clear that you know that they want to There's also a bit of, well, there's there's pushback on on t the gas piece of this, and it's to me it's sort of uncl what the status of that is going if you know they're going to be if there's going to be enough legislative support to to get that part through, I mean, the road construction in and the operating engineers local 150 have have both.

You know, they're they're opposed to takin tax off on on fuel because it's used for for bridge repairs and road construction.

I mean, it's about $135 million.

I think that there would be take And so they're they're putting o word among, you know, and anyone who will listen to them that they're agai And so I think, you know, they've got clout.

Local 150 has clout in the General Ass and so it'll be an interesting t to see if that survives almost under state and local 150 is just very power But Jason, you know, the other p that the governor had proposed, but I don't think he's done any sort of big event on it yet is the idea that for a year, you know, you'd be able to doubl your kind of property tax rebate applicable to maybe about 2 million homeown You know, if you file jointly earning up to $500,000 single, obviously half of that.

But I mean, is that going to mak of a difference?

Obviously, property taxes in Ill been a huge issue for years and and years.

Yeah, I am surprised that and maybe it's part of the messa over the next few weeks as he's trying to get his budget passed.

But you know.

I think when it comes to the rea people are dissatisfied with living in Illinois, I don't think the 1% grocery tax came to the top of many people's .

But property taxes do for people who pay property taxe that keep going up and up and up I think there is some political to be made by somehow playing it But you know, as you pointed out just in your description of it, it's a little convoluted, a litt complex, too, to explain in a in TV commercial or a news conferen to try to make it clear on how much the savings are going t and the savings aren't as widesp as they would be for a gas tax or a or or a grocery tax.

So it'll be interesting to see if you know how he sort o that message and and passes alon because it is.

It does mean big bucks and it is profile issue dealing with prope now at the same time, you know, takes about a Billion dollars to offer these three forms of re and some other forms of relief, which we didn't discuss the fee those wanting to enter the medic and for struggling restaurants a But you have progressive interes who are, you know, J.B. Pritzker, his allies who are asking for more money to put in a lot of other things.

But we are out of time for this.

I'd like to thank my guests, Jas Dave McKinney.

I'm Hannah Meisel.

Catch you again next week on Cap