From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Raquel Stephen.

Today marks a solemn anniversary in Rochester.

One year ago, families gathered for a summer barbecue in Maplewood Park.

What was supposed to be a joyful gathering turned tragic when police say 40 to 50 shots were fired from nine different guns.

Two women were killed.

25 year old Tasia manning and 34 year old Felicia Council.

Five others were wounded.

Earlier this year, police arrested 21 year old Nasir Johnson in connection with the shooting.

Police say he fired a gun during the shooting, though he's not accused of shooting anyone.

No other arrest have been made, though police say the investigation is ongoing.

Maplewood was one of the deadliest shootings in recent Rochester history.

But it wasn't an isolate incident.

Just weeks earlier, another mass shooting at MLK Park left six people injured.

In fact, the Maplewood shooting was one of more than 500 mass shootings in the U.S. in 2024 alone.

So today we mark this anniversary not only to remember the lives lost, but to ask what does this mean?

That's what we're going to talk about this hour, what happened, where we are now, and what still has to change.

We have several guests joining us for this conversation.

Conversation liquid around heart is teargas, mother.

She joins us remotely to remember her daughter and reflect on what this year meant.

Laquita joins so much.

Thank you so much for joining us, Laquita.

Hi.

Thank you liquid I know, I know, today is is very, hard for you and I appreciate you for joining us in this conversation.

Okay.

Laquita.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

And in studio are two folks working in violence prevention in Rochester through a program called Community Engagement to Reduce Victimization or serve a community based violence intervention program that works to reduce retaliatory, retaliatory dispute related violence.

Kiva Owens is serve a coordinator with the nonprofit Rise Up Rochester.

Thank you for joining us, Kevo.

Thank you for having me.

And I have Kierra Smith is a program officer for the Greater Rochester Health Foundation focusing on racial health equity.

And she also works with Serv.

She also recently won the Democratic primary election for Rochester City Council.

But we're going to keep the politics of minimum today.

Okay, Kiki, thank you both for joining us in the studio.

Now, Laquita, we want we want to start with you.

Can you start by telling us about Theresa, who she was?

What does she love to do?

What kind of person was she?

What type of woman was she growing up?

Tyler was a very, lovable young lady.

Fun, goofy, full of life.

Always doing a lot of things with family.

Kaiser was pretty much like the glue to the family when it came to, like, holidays and getting the family together, or to cook food or just sit around and laugh and be goofy, always engaging with her sisters and just pretty much was about family and her friends and the community.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for for describing her.

I know Liquido what can you tell us about, that day at Maplewood Park?

What do you recall, Laura?

Just from Paul getting, phone call from her, godmother.

That day.

I was a little tired.

You know, restless and stuff.

And, she called me and just just streaming on the phone and I heard her say that, Ty was shot and.

I just, at the end, just ran out the house and just went to a family friend, and he got me to the hospital.

Was quickly happy to, you know.

And what do you want?

What do you want people to understand about what happened there that day?

That they took a precious gift.

Two precious gift that that because the council family as well, you know, Felicia and two others wounded like they affected the community, a lot.

And, that's just something that I've never would have thought was, like, been pretty much like my life and what our family is going through.

And how have you as been a year?

How have you made it through this year?

What's helped?

It hasn't helped.

I moved out of Rochester.

You moved.

And this was.

And this was based on, what happened or or.

Yeah.

You had to get it.

Like, I just couldn't be there anymore.

Like, tired.

Is my baby the last?

The four daughters that I have and then that there's just something drastic, like I never thought will ever happen.

Like that's a severe pain because we already lost.

We had a lot of, like, a severe thing with my mother being murdered in 1991 and her case being unsolved, and now, you know, being 13, losing a mom and, and, that's a different type of pain.

But it had losing a child and so young.

And it's never just the beginning of life.

It's just.

Oh.

It's very very very hard.

Like it's hard.

Like it's a day.

Feels like it was that day.

Like.

So we just opened it back up.

But as far as like speaking about her and trying to honor who Ty was and me being her mom, it just just my family going through that ordeal.

You know, her sister was with her and that's that's just something that they're like, you know, like always together, like, anybody know TR and Ty was like tied at the hip and then Ty have that's the, group of friends that just loved love her.

Yeah.

She reminds me so much of my mom.

Like, it's just crazy.

Ty is like, the goofy, like, they're like, oh, you need me to be there?

Like her.

Like I said, her niece.

Is that her nephews and cousins, they missed her tremendously.

Ty was the goofy one to play with them, wrestle with them.

You know, big kid.

Just a big kid.

Yeah.

That's why she got along.

Even with the care.

That kind street.

Like they loved her like Ty.

They go relate.

You know, her being 25 and you know you know our Rochester kids, they had little events, you know.

So they there where they went to times.

And Ty is like right there with them like yeah I mean working with the kids.

And freaking Franklin like just everybody, even the centuries, I used to go up dirty cracking jokes and be like, oh, you brought Ty cupcakes.

Me?

You bring us nine, or Ty could call me.

And below me was the Chinese food I'm bringing in, like, oh my God, Ty.

Yeah, but I'm bringing in.

You had her spoiled.

Yeah.

Yes.

That's like, that's what moms do.

I was spoiled by her guy, mom.

So like I said, it's I, you know, like, she just reminded me.

I just put.

I used to put.

I don't want me to tie the knot, like, clean it up.

And all the other girls will be clean it up and Ty will get on the phone.

It's like saga, mama, ask if she could come over and she would come and pick up Ty.

It's I would get out of and I'd be yelling and she be like, yeah, okay, we do with Ty, come in with me.

And then she just told me she was taking them out to eat food and going to the mall, so.

So she wouldn't clean up.

That was her way of getting out of clean, always getting out of something like, yeah.

Thank you, Liquido for sharing those memories with us.

I also have on the line with me, Alex Council.

He is the father of Felicia Council.

The other young lady who lost her life, due to the mass shooting.

Alex, are you on the line with me?

Yes, ma'am.

Yes.

Thank you so much for joining us.

I know you do.

You know you.

I know you establish some rapport, right?

Due to this.

Yeah.

Okay.

So where I live.

Hey, we, Good.

Yeah, that we have, we have really, really, really bonded.

You know, it's amazing how, we both live in Florida, and both our daughters passed away time and day, and, just.

And we found out, and we both in Rochester, you know, and then we found out that a birthday of out of the same day in the same month.

Is that something.

Yeah.

You posted a birthday last year, I mean this year.

And I said wait a minute now that's not her birthday is not the same day as mine.

Well.

And what, what date is that.

When is your birthday's.

January 29th.

That's her soup.

Yep.

Wow.

So something else you guys can can bond over?

Yeah.

Something happy at least.

I wanted to ask you about Felicia.

We heard a little bit about Theresa.

Can you tell us about Felicia and who she was and what she loved to do?

Just share some memories with us.

Well.

Oh, man, I got so many memories brought by my little baby girl.

Ever since she was a baby, you know, I have moved to, Florida when she was baby.

And then I had to come down.

She was called Debbie every summer, and, she was just, And she was just so, so, so adorable and and so, she was one of the daughters that was like, very protective over her dad.

You know, if you talk too long to her dad, you want to know who you are, where you from, where you come from, what you're doing, you know, stuff like that, you know?

And I remember, one day I was, drawing a lady friend of mine to register, and I can tell her.

And she was on the on the, phone talking to her girlfriend, and he told someone who was this lady?

My dad.

Boyfriend.

He turned back.

Nobody.

He bring in with him.

Why is he bring this lady to my job?

Very.

Protect a daddy's girl.

Yeah, yeah I do.

Girls need a daddy girl.

Man, that my daddy girl, man.

Tell him that I miss him so much because he was that daddy girl.

You know, I would sit with her at a restaurant, remember?

With our cousins are real tight.

She tight with them.

And, she was talking about, one of our cousins.

And, she was saying, because I was talking to the cousins for a while, I was sitting at dinner table, and I moved the girl, the cousin move and went to know their table will move around.

And my daughter came over and my daughter said, dad, you know, you got you got to watch her.

I watch me watch this.

You say I was CBS.

I said, I said, listen, you know, you you know, you talking about your cousin, right?

I know that, but I'm just saying that I. Oh, I hope that cousin is not listening.

That's why I said name.

But but but but if she listened, you know what I was doing.

Some are.

But.

Yeah.

So, see this girl, but over the over over me.

I'm saying she's just really just like.

I mean, just really in my corner, man.

You know, I can tell her a lot.

She done so much for me.

She was always looking out for other people, you know, me and my my daughter, mother, daughter, me, Alex.

You know, we were somewhat not really the same, but some of the strangers she took, a man, she took in, faith time me with my grandson, with my daughter had.

And we started talking.

He kind of bought that bond back together, you know?

Right?

Yes.

I mean, does this type person.

She was at my understanding.

People told me that when she was at the, at the party, he was yelling, tell the other people, get down, get down.

They shoot, they shoot.

You know, or something.

And, she was just protect it.

I mean, when she went to high school to always call me about a cousin that she had, I'm like, how you got a cousin every week?

Oh, that's a Rochester.

Hell, yeah.

That's my cousin.

That, But these were girls who she was like friends with who were being bullied at school, whatever.

Or didn't have no friends.

You know, a few of them.

Yeah.

And so this year, out of my three daughters, she was the least I even worried about.

Yeah.

Because for me to know how to protect herself, she knew place to go.

I did not worry about her at all.

I mean, I could I knew nobody was going to do nothing to harm or hurt her because she was a stand up girl.

She knew place to go.

She, you know, if she see trouble, she would get away from it.

But it's like, the least is the least person I worried about, you know, and my other daughter came down for I was I was worried about her, you know?

Hey, you got to be in houses at time, but at least you just you just know, and I just wouldn't worry about her.

And, I just, it's like.

So when it when it happened, you know, it was so hard to believe.

You know, it's so hard to believe.

And it's still hard to believe.

Yeah.

So hard to believe, you know, so horribly.

And she just was a good.

I mean, you support the autism kids and, you know, and you got to be a special, special person to work with autism kids.

Yeah.

Me.

Me.

You know, so it's a thankless job.

It's not a lot of money, but you but you helping, kids who cannot help themselves.

Yes.

And, you know, and it's just it's just, you know, that's just so you.

Her job tells you you don't know her.

It tells you the kind of heart that she had.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it seems like both both Isaiah and Felicia were the glues to keeping the family together.

Yeah yeah yeah.

Yes yes yes yes yes it was.

Yeah.

So so so I would ask.

Yeah.

Go ahead and do it I'm sorry.

Now you go go go go ahead.

Yeah I just wanted to ask you a year has been a it's been a full year.

How are you feeling today?

And what are we what are we doing to.

To honor Felicia's memory, family?

Well, my, my daughter, Alexander, she had a, get together in Rochester.

On on her sister.

So, you know, I have to, like, I get caught up in missing my baby girl.

Yeah.

And I think about about them as what they've gone through as well, you know, and, and they honor her like they.

I'm at.

I'm out of town on business, but I got her, me and her picture a, a button up button of me and her on there, and, my daughter who sent me some cufflinks with, my, daughter.

Picture on.

I'm wearing those a date, and I'm just honored her, man.

It's like.

It's like, I don't know, I'm like any tween with that.

Took the honor and stuff, right?

Because I'm just doing.

I'm just doing stuff right.

And just doing stuff.

And it's like it's it's a good thing, the bad.

But it's like, you know, I don't really feel the meaning behind it, but I'm just I'm just doing it right.

Because like I said, it's been a year and this thing is still it's still hurting, right?

Yeah.

Well hurry.

You still still mourning, the situation, you know, that doesn't happen.

You know, because my daughter, you know, she bought me this, this big wear hat when my mother passed 2020, and she came up for the flu and everything bought me, and she came up there, and she went around to the stores and found this, the base.

And she put our pictures on it and my, my mom picture and she handwritten.

She had written about 70 or 80 encouraging words from herself and mostly from the Bible.

And she said, dad, whenever you're feeling bad, just pull one out.

And then four years later I will be pulling them out for her.

Yeah, I'll be pull up for her.

So.

Oh, man.

Yeah, it's just hers.

Yeah, her.

It's okay.

I'll explain.

Them.

Okay.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for sharing those memories.

We're going to we're going to switch gears and we're going to talk to, our.

Can I call you activist and advocates here?

In studio with me.

Kiva, I want to start with you.

You work directly with people impacted by violence.

First of all, how did you get involved with this work?

And, you know, the family is still mourning, right?

And what is how what are steps they can take?

Yeah.

To get through.

You will never get over it.

But how how can they get through.

First I'd like to think both of the parents for coming on and sharing the good times.

Those, those things matter.

Being able to celebrate those ones we loss and be able to work through that mourning.

Another thing that I've found useful, having lost two brothers myself, is just support of others.

So it's amazing that, they've built the relationship.

And I would encourage them to keep that relationship together, with each other, keep in contact, keep encouraging each other, as well as other family members and and friends, humans, where we're born to be together in community.

That's how evolution.

That's how we evolved to the point we are, as with each other.

So that's how we get through things thick and thin.

High or low.

So I would encourage them to continue to do that.

In, Kiara, is there anything, any encouraging words you can share with the the family at this moment?

Yeah.

I just want to say thank you so much for coming on today to, share with all of us the happy memories and times, of the two young ladies that we're are gone to soon, I can say that I have also experienced all of us, I'm sure in some way have experienced gun violence.

And it does something for you.

It does something to you.

It changes the way you see the world.

It changes the way you feel the world.

It changes the way you show up in the world.

I want to tell you that it does get I want to say, I don't want to say better, but you learn how to mourn differently.

And my prayer as a parent, I can't say what it feels like as a parent, because when my cousin was murdered, my aunt lived with me at the time.

And so every morning, around 4 or 5:00 in the morning, there is nothing like the wailing of a mother that has lost their child.

I mean, it does something to you.

It changes the way you even respond to the world.

But I want to say that I am a spiritual woman, and I believe that God is merciful and kind, and that he is close to your heart and that he is close to, you know, the closest person you can lean on and call on is your higher power.

So I ask that you lean into that.

I know that I will be praying for you.

I am praying for you through this moment, through this time.

And, my prayer is that you will find comfort, that God will send you comfort, during this time, and I also pray that you continue to show up and smile on their behalf that those loving, kind things that you just said, how they were, you know, tricksters and comedians and that they were the fund individuals that sometimes just for no reason, you may feel their spirit and you do something that would honor them if it's eating their favorite ice cream, listening to their favorite song, hopefully those kind of things will will start to bring you some some peace along the way.

Yes it has.

Alexan in in Lakota.

I just want to thank you again for for joining us today on the on the anniversary.

I know it takes strength and so much resilience.

And I really appreciate, both of you for trusting me, to to share, to share this platform with us and to share your story with us.

Really appreciate you for being here.

I want to talk to our experts about why violence tend to escalate in these situations.

Right.

What do we know about how and why violence escalates?

Yeah.

So for me, I want to say how I think about violence all the time.

Violence in itself is infinite in the sense of we have infinite things and we have finite things, right?

So a finite there's fixed rules, there's fixed players or fixed times.

There's a beginning and end.

Violence is infinite.

Violence has been violent since the beginning of time.

People have been conquering and taking over and colonizing it, just being violent.

There's no fixed players, there's no fixed rules, there's no fixed, ways to win anything.

So it continues to escalate today because today it continues to be infinite.

We can't say who's going to be, a perpetrator of violence.

We can't say who that victim is going to be.

We can't say what time, we can't say where it's going to happen.

But when we try to put it in the box of, institutions and organizations with finite, reasons and ways and solutions to attack and solve those problems, then, it's ahead of us and we're being more reactive than proactive.

So in order for me how I continue to look at the work that I do is how can I continue to be literally like water and infinite like violence is, how can I continue to emerge myself?

My organization, into the community, into, the those marginalized populations who are more susceptible to violence?

Yeah.

And what what do what do people often misunderstand about gun violence in in Rochester?

And I'll answer that question, but I also want to add on to key question, I think that gun violence is a result, is a systemic issue, and I think it's based in poverty.

And I believe that it's a there are lack of and it most often happens in impoverished neighborhoods where individuals, you know, there are conditions like, poor housing, a lack of employment with a livable wage, lack of access to culturally appropriate mental health services and health care services, all of those things.

When people I know, when I'm when I'm broke, when I used to be, you know, my money wasn't right.

I want to talk to nobody.

Right.

And I don't want you pushing no buttons because I'm more likely to get a little bit more enraged and inflamed, I think are people we don't really know how to.

And gun buyers, I say, are people because gun violence in particular, impacts black and brown individuals, 82%, I believe, of the young men.

Well, I'm looking at data from from served from 2020.

There are 8333 shootings and 82% of those individuals were black.

Most of the the victims were young men.

We have to teach our children ways to cope.

They don't have coping skills.

They act out of their emotions.

And again, when you don't have, money and you don't have a safe place to live, and the people outside the US shooting and the people outside of you are involved in all kinds of different things, you're you're less likely to respond in a way that is a, you know, appropriate.

So I think that we have to prepare our children in school, teach them how coping mechanisms, teach them how to regulate themselves and how to regulate their emotions, and how to deal with, themselves when they're when they're in conflict.

Conflict resolution is a big part of that as well.

I want to take you back to Maplewood.

Police have said several people showed up to this gathering with bad intent, right, quote unquote.

Talk us through the idea of retaliatory disputes with bad intent.

And so.

Bad intent is hard to judge for, for anyone if you have not had a direct conversation with them that day or in that moment of what someone's intention was.

So what I would say about that tragic, that tragic day and what took place, is that everyone was or is having a good time, but there were those who were on the outside just looking in, and then people possibly weren't engaging with them, to see what was going on.

A part of that is just being culturally aware and competent of what's going on for me.

When I come in a room or when I come to a place, I can feel the room, you can feel the organism, that what's going on, you can feel the energy, and I can look at their faces and see who's got what, who's doing what, who's grabbing or reaching and and you know.

Yeah.

And so for me and for us, our organizations, we base a lot of that de-escalation on relationships.

So relationships.

So we also, know who are quote unquote shooters in and around the community who have the propensity for that escalated kind of violence.

So it's important to have relationships and connections with these individuals so that when incidents like that, occur or when there's gatherings like that, then they can be talked to, they can be spoken to, they may just need a handshake or a hug or a smile that day.

And it can turn everything around.

Yeah.

From here.

Yeah.

I was going to say that, when you think about retaliation and it's just a never ending cycle of violence until you get an interrupter to come in, and that's what these credible messengers are like.

Kevo project serve a project.

Rochester, the snug program, they provide intervention services that has a mediation portion that can help intercept, violence.

Right.

And and that's where you support violence.

But the problem is that, folks, everybody can't do this work.

Yeah, right.

I think that some people, you know, you're able to write a good grant.

That does not mean that your organization is the best person to do this work.

And so those who need those who can do the work are typically underfunded and not having the resources they need to be effective.

And we know that rise Up Rochester is an effective service.

We know that snug is an effective, service and program.

So we have to make sure that we're investing in those credible messengers, which have been pointed out from community and respected by community.

Kevo is one of those credible messengers, and we need to continue to invest in these individuals.

Yes, because people would more likely take advice from someone that they respect, right?

You know, or that are underground that know what's going on in the community.

Yeah.

And I wanted to touch on that just again and, and answer your question directly, as far as retaliatory violence goes, Rochester is an extremely segregated city in the sense of there's East side, West side note there pockets in the city, but based on, credible messages and our relationships with one another, if you knew someone from the West Side or the do area and there was, a beef going on with someone on the East side, and I knew them, a you and I can use our relationships, the strength and the the currency, our relationship currency to then get those to to sit down or those two groups, an organization to sit down and they have a conversation and a ceasefire and to be able to piece that out essentially all world wars, even in, world wars end in diplomacy.

They end with sit downs.

So.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Well, we're going to take a quick break.

When we get back, we'll talk more about the Maplewood shooting and how things have changed in the years since then and what still needs to happen.

That's coming up on connections right after the break.

Stay with us.

I'm Evan Dawson, coming up.

In our second hour, we bring back a recent conversation about the rise in the number of Americans looking at options to move abroad, often to Europe.

But not always.

They're looking at the different routes to either citizenship, but often just a chance to move to another country.

And if you're wondering how that happens and want to hear from some Americans who have done that, that's coming up next, our.

Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from United Way of Greater Rochester and the Finger Lakes, serving the community for more than 100 years, dedicated to creating a future where everyone's basic needs are met so all can thrive more at United Way rock flex.org, you're listening to connections on WXXI.

I'm Rachel Stephen there.

If you're just joining us, this week is the one year anniversary of the deadly mass shooting at Maplewood Park.

And always we'd like to invite our listeners to join in on the conversation.

You can call us at 1844295 talk.

That's 1-844-295-8255 or at (585) 263-9994 or email us at Connections at Cyborg.

Or you can comment right in our YouTube channel.

Joining me in studio, I have Kiva Owens.

He's a server coordinator with the nonprofit Rise Up Rochester.

I also have Kiara Smith, a program officer for the Greater Rochester Health Foundation focusing on racial health equity.

And on the phone lines with me, I have Alex Council, the father of 34 year old Felicia Council, who passed away that day at Maplewood Park.

Also liquid around heart, the mother of Tisha manning.

Also a victim of the mass shooting.

I want to ask both the Queen and Alex.

What?

What have you heard from law enforcement?

Any updates on the case?

What are you hearing?

No, nothing.

Nothing.

I haven't heard anything since, like, September.

So.

Taser, I think was, recording or something, and I think, like, a bullet went through her phone and, tech had, basically, like, rebuilt her cell phone to say, like, pictures and things of that nature that we could still have and videos that he rebuilt it to another iPhone.

And that was the last I heard.

I haven't heard anything from anybody.

I mean, I did meet with the governor, and I've been down to city council and seeing that they was having, nothing.

And Alex anything.

Yeah.

I haven't heard anything since, they caught the guy.

It really hurt so much for them.

But they had heard anything.

They caught the guy.

He's not even the guy.

The guy.

Right?

Is just a guy.

Just wanted a shooter.

It wasn't like it.

Yeah.

The guy, I mean, they caught one of the guys, which I feel was kind of like, I was.

I met with the, people when I came up there, and I was in disagreement with them.

Because I said to them, right.

I said, they said I didn't like what the captain said on the on the news when it was, first of all, I was very nice lot by the whole whole situation.

And his demeanor was, was not good to me.

And he comes on there and he says that they know he's not the shooter.

And I'm not trying to put blame.

I say he is.

I'm just saying, I think you just to do a little bit more police work before you brought that out.

And the thing is that my thing is ask them and they notice.

So I'm not saying something.

I didn't tell them, I told them, I said, well, where's the ballistic report?

Because you're saying that he was not at the angle.

The what?

The angle he was.

That shows us tells us that he didn't do that.

Well, the only way you can really tell is if you do a blitz report on the bullet.

Right.

And then you could tell what happened, because bullets can leave a gun or they can go with the wind.

You know what I'm saying is somewhat.

So you know, the saying all they said once the bullet leaves the chamber, you know, tell who's going to hear something.

So the thing is that I haven't I heard from the Da, about the, recently, but it was just an update on the trial and stuff like that there.

She called me when, he got a bomb, and he.

But they.

But the bomb was denied something like that there.

And, and they have the actual, trial date, matter of fact, is crazy, right?

They have the trial date today starts today.

Wow.

I was like, wow, out of all the days I have, to date.

So that was kind of kind of messed up.

But, you know, it is what it is.

But, as far as hearing from the detective and the people as opposed to investigating the case, I mean, really, I'm at this point I don't even know who is who is investigating the case because I hadn't heard from them.

I mean, it'd be good to hear something.

It'd be gotten up.

At least I know who the person is, who's running this, who's in charge?

Who's looking out for this?

I to say, hey.

Yeah, I talked to Sergeant So-and-so.

He call me up.

He's all the case about the case.

I, you know, who's even over the case anymore?

Well, yeah, if it's open or if it's closed or if it's being investigated.

And there was it that there was over 40 to 50 rounds, like, you know what I'm saying is.

Yeah.

Number and down to people of guns that was out there.

Okay.

Well to pick up everybody or anybody saying something, I understand people was running.

But you know, and that's the that's a chaotic situation.

And you know what I'm saying.

Yeah.

But it was just crazy just to even see, see that and see you don't see, see it because like I seen it and you know, and just to cut it, yeah.

I'm sure let's agree with me on this one that I don't we don't we both don't understand.

How do you have pictures of all these guys with the guns in their hands, and you can't find them and you can't put on it?

Nobody got any?

Yeah.

How do you how do you how do you have that?

And you can't find guys?

First of all, these guys are young.

They got no money.

They got nowhere to go.

They got no place to stay.

They got no car, they got no job.

So even some of them was even guys from the community like people you seen or what, you know, like they're free.

They're easy prey to be found, the easy prey to be found.

Right.

But it's like nobody's buying them.

And then the same guy that got found.

You won't believe this.

I told Sergeant Joseph this four months ago where he was at.

I told news that his his grandparents house at the same address.

Okay.

No response was to me.

Well, I was, you know, we just can't go with people house.

We just that's what you mean.

You just can't go in the house and knock on door.

It's say, hey, we got we got, word that this person was here.

Then 4 or 5 months later, they find him at the same place I've been told about.

You know, people.

I know people, right?

You know, the guy that they told me, he rolled by there and they had me on the phone, you know, which is very small on the website.

So he.

I'm going to follow him.

He rolled by there and gave me the address of the house because he's got an address on the house.

Yeah.

I like I want more than this.

But they, they didn't do not they move on.

So the same thing where they found a man and that's the thing these kids that they, they're, they're looking for that family member homes.

They that no stranger homes family members are holding them.

Grandmothers, mothers, great grandmothers, grandfathers, uncles, these they're holding these guys.

I don't because it's very hard to run.

Well, you ain't got no money, no job, no car.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm stable, but I can't just say, okay, today I'm leaving and going to another city just like that.

I can't just do that, you know?

Family.

Yeah, I was I want I want to put these guys up.

I want to talk.

I want to talk to our experts.

And I want them to respond to to your feelings, your sentiments.

I know this work can sometimes get challenging for for each of you.

Are there moments when you feel like the system is is working against you and the families that you that you serve?

Do you ask me that?

I'm asking the experts in studio.

I can say that.

I know that, the systems aren't talking the way that they should.

And in order to support one another.

I know that one of the barriers, for some of the programs is housing for individuals who, you know, once they get shot, there isn't a safe house necessarily, like you have DV shelters.

There isn't a place that you can put a gun violence victim for fear that everyone else in that space becomes a victim.

So oftentimes they have to move individuals, into different cities, into different hotels and into different spaces.

And so, you know, having conversations with, you know, doctors who may not understand, having conversations with, shelters of victims who may not understand, and then having conversations with parents who don't understand, what happens after a homicide?

Someone should be talking to these families, keeping them abreast, letting them know what's happening every step, even if it's monthly, if it's if it's every quarter, they shouldn't be finding out things at the same time as the general public.

So I think that everyone has good intentions.

I don't I don't believe that the systems are trying to prevent, you know, families from being well, I just think that we need to do a better job of coordinating our services so that the families, you know, and the victims have access to information and to resources so that we aren't ending up in another retaliatory situation.

Yeah.

And we're hearing that sometimes these these gunmen are young, right?

They're they're young men.

How do you engage with young people who might be involved or surrounded by violence?

Like what's important to understand about tell them about their lives and their decisions?

I think, again, the most important thing is relationship, right?

The most influential group around a person, no matter their age, is their peer group.

So if you have a relationship with, say, a group of young men and or women, just a group of six and you have a relationship with one of the 16 that you're in.

Yeah.

Outsiders can't come from the outside and you have to work your way inside out.

And from that point, that point, then you'll be able to do the work and then begin to, essentially heal these, these, these people that are perpetuating these crimes because they're broken.

They're broken people are broken children.

And I know you mentioned here, the systems, right.

The housing, the health care.

What role should institutions like schools in the health care system and even the media and putting myself on on the chopping block here, playing preventing violence.

What role shall we play?

I think that there are ways that all of these systems can do what they can do.

Right?

So I think City School District is should be providing again, some kind of service that helps children, teaches them how to regulate their emotions, that brings individuals like Kiva and other credible messengers in and say, hey, because this is not a lot of shooters.

I think that's one of the things two people think everybody going around, everybody is a handful of shooters, like literally the percentage.

What would you say Kiva?

I don't know that it's low loan, it's low, but there are just like a handful of people perpetuating a lot of crimes.

Right.

But I think so engaging people into into the system, into these programs, intervening prior to, when we see people, kids on a path, reach out to reach out to serve, reach out to rise up Rochester, reach out to oh, God, Serena Kot and, rock the rock.

The peace.

There are so many ways that we can be getting young people involved.

Reach out to the City of Rochester.

Pathways to peace.

So we have to look look at what's in our hands, look at the resources that are in our hands.

And we need to make do with what we have and what what do you need?

What do programs like these need to really?

I can tell you and I and I'm a funder and I can tell you that more money they they they need they need guidance like this is I don't know like these kids.

They, these kids is different.

Yeah they different.

And y'all know exactly what I'm talking about.

These kids is on these drugs.

They are fentanyl.

They are multi.

They pop out.

They taking codeine sirup.

What they don't.

Hey these kids do not care.

They ain't afraid of no.

My hope is I can't say to other word what.

You know what I'm talking about.

They is not afraid of anything in the parents.

They they stop doing it because guess who come into your house?

CPS.

Oh you don't you don't do a shadow more.

You don't.

They did you you used to get a weapon from your teachers at school when I was going to school.

Popped on the head.

The the the community has lost.

They.

Oh, no, don't do that.

This child abuse.

You need to be knocking them upside their little head.

You want punish me?

You can't do that.

Some kids take it.

I don't care as long as you go to work.

I'm outside.

I'm go running away.

They want to be.

They want death.

My boyfriend.

Oh, I got ownership.

You 15 years old.

You got your whole life.

Why is you shooting at a girl about a boy?

Yeah, yeah.

And.

Okay, well, you wanted to address a parental get to right?

Stephanie, when Stephanie was at Jefferson way back in the day, you.

You killed this young lady about a boy that she didn't even was talking to.

Yeah.

Liquid.

We're crazy.

We're going to, Hopefully our expert can respond to liquids, comments about parents, and I don't know if you.

Yeah, yeah.

So to that, my position on parenting is, is that us is, grassroots as well as larger, larger organizations, academia institutions have to be more inclusive of the parents, right?

Yeah.

It's like having a large farm and then the milling of the soil.

What we're getting is from the parents are traumatized.

The parents are broken.

The parents have no guidance.

It's literally the blind leading the blind care.

And, and and it's essentially because they don't have the support, the supports in place.

They don't even know.

They don't know.

Left for.

Right.

I've had multiple conversations where, we need more.

We need better parenting classes.

We say it takes a village, and in the same time, we live in silos, we work out to science.

If we're going to be the village, we have to come out of villages.

Because I can't do it all.

You can't do it all.

One mom cannot do it all.

We essentially have to surround and support all of our children, in our community.

And everyone grab a side and then lift because it is a heavy lift that we're facing here.

Yeah.

In Rochester, New York.

So part of that, it's just being an ecosystem.

Yeah.

And but there is, you know, there is the fact that gun violence has decreased significantly in Rochester.

Is that is that what you're seeing on the ground as well?

It was just numbers four, six, two, one.

So that's not is that a number system.

Is that the number system deaths.

Because that's what they talk about.

They'd be like, oh, the crime is down 20%.

But who where?

Yeah, that's what I live in.

Are you like oh my god.

All right.

Be every day.

Yeah.

Is that is that what we're seeing?

Is that like they go off they go off of a number system.

Like even Cathy, she was like, oh, crime is down 15%.

I don't you're right Sergeant.

Such as such.

She's like yeah, like where?

Because your caseload is, up there.

Okay.

Like we said, we're okay.

We respond.

Is, is this what we're seeing on the ground or is it just numbers?

So for me, I love to use analogies because it makes it makes sense to me.

And I look at it as like someone saying they're the world's greatest cheeseburger.

Like, what metrics did you use to say that?

Say, that makes sense.

So so essentially these numbers that we're seeing that, people are just using their own metrics and then coming up with, some number and then, using that for whatever purposes they may be using that sound bite for, for that time.

Yeah.

And then it may be something different than that is.

So cover up.

That is a lot of shootings in Rochester and, and in the in the caseload is getting really hectic for our PD.

And yeah yeah I do equate locally to I know they got a whole lot going on within themselves as well.

You know like just look at all this.

Police violence uses racial profiling for shootings.

Yeah it's making it okay.

Liquid.

It needs to be an active is used to show I mean they're really making they're really justifying like okay that cop you he's serving a day one day I want to I want to, lady.

I want to get to a caller before before we wrap up our hour, I want to get to one caller here.

I mean, we have a few on, but I want to get to one caller, and, he is, Will from Victor.

Will, are you on the line?

Yes, I am, yeah.

You're doing.

I'm great.

Thank you for calling.

Well, I know your comment has to do with, I know you teach a course in black culture.

Correct.

And you want to know what role do black churches play in addressing the violence that we do know?

Black churches are kind of the nucleus of the black community.

So, it's my question is my question is, religion, if you take it out of the Greek, the etymology essentially says religion is that which you have an exact attention to.

And ever since, you know, prior to after the American Revolution, black religion has become, pretty much the white man's religion in this country with modifications.

And the next step is black culture and how the culture evolved, into its present form today.

And the black church is the nucleus of the black community, by and large, in my research.

So my question for you and your panel, I'll take my your answer off the air.

Is the black church succeeding or is the black church failing its people, especially the the notion of parents, because there are parents to all these kids that are running around the city with guns and the question is, is the parenting succeeding or is it failing?

Thank you very much.

Thank you, thank you.

Will.

Cairo, I know you wanted to respond.

If you're just tuning in.

Cairo Owens, he is the coordinator with the nonprofit Rise Up.

Rochester.

Cairo.

How do you respond to will is a black church is succeeding in in helping in helping violence.

So I can speak directly to, serve and rise at Rochester.

So rise up.

Rochester is based out of Beirut.

And church itself, and it was originally a support group for families and friends that have lost a loved ones to violence.

So that's essentially how Rise Up Rochester began.

We still do a lot of things at the church.

A lot of our board members are from the church.

Our president is a pastor at the church.

So I can speak to Rise at Rochester and our involvement with the church and Baber AME church.

Yeah.

So your organization stemmed from the church, so you can you would say that the church is doing its part.

The black church is doing its part to prevent violence in the city.

Yes.

I hear any comments.

I don't go to church, so I can't I can't say it.

What I will say is that times are different.

I, I grew up in church.

I don't currently belong to a church.

Times are different though.

I think that after Covid happened, people really lost church to lots, lost touch with the church and so many folks don't go to church as often as they used to.

Generations are different.

You know, the parents now didn't necessarily grow up in church the same way I did.

And at at 46 years old.

Right.

And then there are a lot of people.

Everyone is in Christian, some people are Muslim, and they just have a different way.

And so the founder of serve, Doctor Assad is that imam.

Is that how you say it?

Who who is Muslim?

So they there are I think that religion plays a part in moving this work forward.

And I just think it depends on where you are with that Christian or Muslim.

And as we wrap up this hour.

Thank you.

I want to thank, our guest, this video guest color, I think is the whole thank I want to thank you liquid brown heart and Alex council, the parents of the victims of the mass shooting at Maple Park just a year ago.

I want to thank you for joining us, and sharing your stories and your memories.

Kevo.

Thank you for joining us.

And Kierra, thank you for sharing your expertise.

And thank you for providing this platform any time.

Thank you.

Thank you so much for listening to member supported public radio WXXI.

And.

I.

This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station, its staff management, or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium, without express written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the connections link at WXXI news.org.