(upbeat music) - Welcome to Forum 360, Global Outlook.

Local View.

I'm your host, Pat Simons.

In 2015 and 2018, more than 70% of Ohioans voted Ohio constitutional amendments intended to provide transparency and accountability to drawing Ohio legislative and US congressional districts.

Redistricting takes place every decennial census, but delayed 2020 data release is a challenge to the new legal guidelines.

So far we know for sure, Ohio is losing one congressional seat.

What does this all mean to the average citizen?

How can we participate?

Jen Miller, Executive Director, League of Women Voters, Ohio, and Reverend Brandi Slaughter J. D., Policy Director for Ohio Council of Churches are both here to help guide us through these questions.

Welcome to you both.

We have a lot-- - Thank you.

- Nice to have you here.

We have a lot to cover.

So Jen Miller, I thought I'd start off with you.

You want to give our audience a little idea of the history of League activism and their expertise and redistricting.

- Right.

So really quick, we were formed in 1920.

We were formerly the Ohio Women's Suffrage Association.

When it seemed that the 19th Amendment was going to pass at a convention, the members decided to become the League with the mission of empowering voters and defending democracy.

We've always been a lot of strong community leaders with diverse backgrounds and opinions, actually really working to be a non-partisan force in the democracy space.

So we've had church... We were founded by teachers and nurses and news reporters.

Like you Pat, business women, women of faith, like the Council of Jewish Women, the Federation of Colored Women's clubs and even the DAR.

So I think what you see in League is that lots of people coming together and their north star is voters and democracy.

So thinking about how the maps are drawn and the fact that we have a long history of partisan gerrymandering, in here in Ohio, that creates unresponsive elected legislators and frustrated voters became a priority for us and we've been working on it for about a half a century.

- Long time.

So despite your partisan leanings, I mean, why should we all care about it?

Why partisan leanings would not have a bearing on this, right?

- Right, well, and so for League, just to remind everyone that we were fighting this when the Democrats were the mapmakers and now we're fighting this when the Republicans are.

You know, there's an instinct.

I think a human instinct of using, if you have, your party has more control of the legislature or Congress then use that to create a partisan advantage.

So that human instinct is there, but it distorts all parts of politics.

So if we think about it, someone who knows that they're going to win their seat, then they don't really need to listen to voters.

How many of us have heard, why do I even need to vote because it doesn't matter?

How many of us have heard the real election is in the primary.

Well, and that's true.

And so what happens is we end up having extreme candidates, win these seats.

I think it's interesting about a 3rd of Ohioans, consider themselves Republican, a third consider themselves Democrat, a third consider themselves Independent.

And it's interesting that we don't see any sway.

So for example, the congressional maps of this past decade have consistently performed the same way regardless as to whether Obama won or Trump won the state.

And so what that means to me is that we should be seeing more swing.

We have 12 secure Republican seats that have not moved at all, and we have four secure Democratic seats that don't move at all.

And I think the bottom line is that most of us want to be able to have that choice and we should see maps that are more responsive to the general public.

- Is League part of a collaboration of nonpartisan non-profits who work for the equitable fair maps?

- Yes, absolutely.

So Fair Districts has been around for a long time.

We have had a couple of different names, but the last time you may have seen Fair Districts was with the 2015 or 2018 ballot initiatives, where we had volunteers out in the field, collecting signatures to try to get a different process.

And then we ended up working with both the Republican and Democratic parties to create new rules for creating these maps, both for the state legislature and our congressional delegation.

And so then you may have seen Fair Districts volunteers at a polling location, where they were encouraging either passing out a card in terms of what issue one was and why you should support it.

- So this is much broader than the League of Women Voters of people collaborating.

Reverend Slaughter, you are the policy director at the Ohio Council of Churches.

Could you tell us a little bit about the council and what you do as policy director?

- Sure.

First, just thank you for having me this morning.

The council of churches has been in existence for over 100 years and we are an ecumenical ministry.

Meaning we work across denominations.

We have over 17 different denominations in our membership, which represents 4,000 congregations.

And I don't want to give a number after COVID.

I dunno how many people are in congregations these days, but quite the reach.

And I have been charged with our policy because the church is very concerned about the interest of its parishioners, the communities that they live in.

And we believe it's our job to stand in the gap for some of those who are marginalized and it may not be in a position to lift their voice.

And so that's who the council is and you know what our agenda does cover some democracy items.

So that's why redistricting and voting rights are important to us, but it also consists of environmental issues as well as poverty related issues.

So we will see a breadth of things that we focus on.

We have a focus also in anti-racism.

So we offer some programming and some training to that regard.

And then again, you know, the things that make us different in terms of denominations, we talk about them and we try to build upon the strengths and come together with a common witness for Jesus Christ.

- It sounds like you have a broad reach over a variety of denominations and the religious community.

And would you consider this like a social justice agenda type thing?

- Some of it is very much social justice, but if there were things that the legislature put forth that were related to churches directly, that would impact their operations, or what have you, we would definitely take a position on that as well.

- So are you linked to League of Women Voters in this redistricting effort through Fair Districts?

- We are.

Fair Districts is amazing, and we're just happy to be a part.

We are offering trainings to congregations all across the state, education about why this is important.

Sometimes people hear redistricting and they think, oh, that's political, but this is more than politics.

This is about making sure people have a voice in their process.

And so our process that, policy making process.

And so that's why we're alongside the League and ACLU and many others that are a part of that coalition.

- It sounds like it's a good way to explain to the public who might be puzzled, how religious organizations might also be politically active.

And I think that's a great explanation.

- Yeah, I don't view it as political activism, honestly, 'cause are non-partisan.

I want to be clear about that.

I think it's more of educating people and preserving human dignity for preserving our voice.

Decisions made in the state legislature and Congress impact the everyday person.

And so there's no reason why churches shouldn't ensure that everyone has a say, everyone is represented and everyone participates in a democracy that lifts up everyone.

- Thank you.

Jen Miller, August 16th is the day that I hear we are getting the delayed census data released.

What does this contracted timeline mean to meeting the amendments?

Can the legislature legally mitigate these situations, these conditions and still meet the deadlines?

- Right, so we have a new census deadline, like many other things COVID-19 really changed how the census had to operate and create a new challenges.

And so we support the new census deadline because we think it will be more quality data.

And we have once in a decade where we really try to count every Ohioan.

So it's the best data to use to make new legislative maps.

We think that the good news is that we think that it's, we'll be able to make up that time and we'll be able to really deliver on the promise of these reforms that voters passed in 2015 and 2018.

Let's keep in mind that we also had a deadline in the constitution that we missed in 2011.

So the sky doesn't fall necessarily when we miss a deadline.

But I think it's really important for everyday Ohioans of all stripes to please call their lawmakers and call Governor DeWine and ask them to start having the conversations now.

There's many things we could be doing now that we don't need the data for.

We could be talking about what these reforms are and making sure we're all on the same page in terms of how they should be implemented.

We could be hearing from the public on what they want in terms of their maps and their communities.

And so we could be starting now.

And I think it's also just important throughout the process, just to be making sure you're calling your lawmakers and the Governor and saying, hey, we want fair maps.

Ultimately, at the end of the day, it was the people who changed this process.

As we all got out as volunteers with our clipboards, asking for a new process and really forcing both parties and the legislature to work with us on reforms, it will be the people who demand fair maps now that get that done.

- Thank you.

You've tuned into Forum 360 and the topic is community powered maps for Fair Districts with Jen Miller League of Women Voters, Ohio, and Reverend Brandi Slaughter, Ohio Council of Churches.

So let's jump into the maps, Jen Miller, tell us about community powered fair maps competition.

When can it start, who can participate?

Who receives these maps and how will they be used?

- So, Fair Districts, just like in 2011, we are going to invite everyday Ohioans.

And even someone who doesn't live in Ohio could participate, but to make their own maps, there's lots of free programs online.

And then they can use the same census data that the official map makers will be using to create maps and submit them to our nonpartisan organization.

- All right.

- Why do we do that?

We do that because we want to give the legislature and the redistricting commission ideas as to what the people of Ohio want.

It's very fun.

Last time we submitted eight maps that we thought were really great and made a lot more sense, especially when you see the weird jigsaw puzzles, then what the state actually adopted.

So we want to give options.

We want people to feel as though they can get involved.

This is a great option.

If you're a college student or you teach a high school class, 'cause guess what?

We're not going to make maps again for another 10 years, we need to be having people think about it now who could be in a leadership role later.

- So would groups go to Fair Districts?

And then that would provide information.

And then if I understand correctly, the maps would come to Fair Districts and the Fair Districts carry them to the legislature and the commission.

Is that how the flow is?

- Yep, that's right.

- Yep, so fairdistrictsohio.org.

- Go ahead.

- You can go to fairdistrictsohio.org.

And then you can also ask for other things like a speaker to come to your community event.

- All right, thank you.

Reverend Slaughter, what specifically is Ohio Council of Churches using your communications to promote and support participation and map drawing?

- Sure, I'm just as part of the coalition, we have been offering trainings through our congregations.

We've been offering sessions where people can invest the vision, what their community is, how you can get your lines drawn based on your community assets.

What you personally define as your community versus what some met makers in the basement of a bunker tell you is your community.

So we've been helping the coalition and those issues, but beyond that, the competition, we want far and wide for folks to participate.

And so we just feel that as our responsibility to communicate that out to our jurisdictions, who will then communicate it out to congregations and hopefully get some good feedback about what makes for a meaningful map.

- So far, how are you being received?

- So that's...

Your question earlier about politics or political leaning does have some congregations, a little nervous about participation, because when you hear redistricting, you think, oh, it's the Democrats and the Republicans, and they're fighting for power, but that's not at all the case.

And we have done our best to educate our congregations, share with them what legally they are able to do.

You know, the question I always pose to folks, and I'll just post for folks here, what would America look like if the church decided to just set out of the abolition movement?

Or just set out of the Civil Rights Movement or set out a Black Lives Matter?

I mean, you know, all of those things can be considered political, but at some point there is a place where you have to act and you have to ensure that there's fairness and there's equality, you know, for everybody, whether you have belief or whether you have non belief.

And so the church has a responsibility to be a moral authority, raise its voice on these issues.

And so overcoming the, oh, that's political, we've given some education, this is not political, this is well within your ability to do so as a church.

And, oh my gosh, it's your moral responsibility to also do it.

- It might be a new concept to some people to be able to have that kind of impact, never have thinking they could do that to participate.

- Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, there are some folks that have a faith lane that believe that social justice is not what we should be doing as a church, but for my job, I feel that my job is not necessarily to convince those folks.

My job is to get the folks that know that, that this is something that they can do and get them active in doing it.

You know, there's so many of us that just say, oh, I went to church, I came home, I pray, I read my Bible, that's enough, but we need you to go a little bit further.

It's one of those things where I think some of us have gotten so selfish, we think about our four and no more.

And that is just not what Jesus did.

That's not the example.

And to live out that example, it means you have to roll up your sleeves and you do have to do some things that are uncomfortable.

And so that's part of my job, just being an evangelist of this work as well as the good word.

- You have a big job (laughs) - I believe.

- I know this may be a little touchy subject, Jen, but do you think there's any risk that the legislature will not come through as the amendments intended that they will not?

We could go to a shorter map span then what we wanted the 10 years.

- So, yeah, there's a couple of things.

One is we look, these reforms are compromises and we're glad to get them after failing multiple times to get something across in the ballot.

And so there are compromises.

They're not perfect.

There are certainly ways that one party or the other whoever's in power that moment could use the loopholes to gerrymander to once again, take power away from the people of Ohio.

So that's where there's two things.

One is make sure you are calling your lawmakers and asking them to uphold both the letter and spirit of the law.

But the other thing is the amendments actually state that the Ohio Supreme court is the sole jurisdiction If someone questions the maps for fairness.

And so that's an option that we have that we can protect the people.

So if we see maps that once again are adopted, that are really unfair, that continue to create safe seats for elected officials so they don't have to listen to voters, then we have the option of going to the Ohio Supreme Court.

- And so that would entail legal action through the collaboration?

Okay.

- Yes.

- When people talk about, you would look for cracking and packing (laughs) the formation of-- - Yeah, sure.

I mean, I think that-- - That's a term that comes with gerrymandering.

You mentioned earlier, Jen Miller about contacting our legislators.

I know that League is monitoring redistricting closely, as well as the collaboration and you're in regular contact with the legislature.

But citizens, again, as Reverend Slaughter was saying, you know, we didn't realize that we could have this impact.

So what kind of message would you say would be the context of a message to the legislature and who would they funnel that to?

Who would they direct that to?

- Right, so there are an unfairdistrictsohio.org.

Right now we have one up actually asking Governor DeWine to start having the redistricting commission hearings.

The legislature should also have those hearings.

So really it's pretty easy.

Start this process now, we don't have to wait for the census data and please give us fair maps.

That return power to the people of Ohio rather than to political parties who are trying to game the system for their own advantage.

- So if you would like a sample message, you could go to fairdistricts.org-- - Fairdistrictsohio.org.

- Fairdistrictsohio.org, right?

And then I would probably start with my own representative and make a personal plea.

Would that be most effective?

- That would be great.

Here's the thing at the end of the day, it is the people of Ohio, again, who demanded that we have a more fair democracy.

It'll be the people of Ohio who make all the difference right now.

- Well, I would like to give you each a closing time.

And Reverend Slaughter, I thought I'd start with you.

I think you've been making a very good case for why people of faith should be involved.

Would you like to make a final plea or an understanding about why that is important for people of faith?

- Sure, thank you.

I'd be happy to.

Gerrymandering, it demoralizes, it disenfranchises voters.

It contributes to the hyperpolarization that we now see in our general assembly and in Congress, at least a voter apathy, that whole comment of why should I get engaged?

And we, as a people, as a community, as a faith community, have to do more to ensure that the system doesn't represent political parties, but serves the people.

That's what our government is built on.

And the church is called to protect the right of people, to have a meaningful opportunity to shape our common life and our common destiny.

We all have to insist on a fair system and bring that power back to the people.

This is what this is about, being about the people.

I mean, that's our neighbors, that's the folks in the pews, that's in the communities in which our building set.

And so the church doesn't get the chance to sit on our hands.

Now's the time to move.

Now's the time to activate.

Now's the time to call your elected officials.

Call Governor DeWine and let them know that you want representation that represents you.

And the way to do that is to draw fair maps.

- Thank you very much.

And Jen Miller, I'll let you have some final moments here to reinforce how important the participation is.

- Well, just remember that it was in 2015, that almost 72% of the voters voted for reform.

And then in 2018, almost 75% of the voters passed in all 88 counties, Republican, Democrat, Independent, young, old.

And so look, at what are these reforms there about bipartisanship and transparency and public participation, not splitting communities simply to have secure districts that are actually unfair?

And so the people demanded this, and so the people need to engage now.

And here's the great news, you don't have to be an expert.

You can rely on groups like the Ohio Council of Churches and the League of Women Voters and Fair Districts Ohio, because our north star is voters.

We have no dog in this fight when it comes to Republican or Democrat.

We just want democracy to work better for all.

- If just as a observer from the general public, when do you anticipate this process will be completed?

- Well, it's a little bit hard to tell, Pat, because we do have a new timeline, but it should be done by the end of this year.

- Okay.

- So we will start having hearings no later than the beginning of September.

We'd like to see them start now and the maps will get all wrapped up.

So the fall is going to be a hot time to be paying attention to what's going on at the State House and participating.

- Well, that's great.

So we've got a short timeline to be really drilling down and paying attention.

- Yeah.

- Well, Fair Districts, I want to repeat that website.

It's fairdistrictsohio.org.

And League of Women Voters as lwvohio.org, and Council of Churches is ohcouncilchs.org.

And I thank you both for coming today, and it's really helped a lot to get this information.

I'd like to thank Jen Miller, Executive Director, League of Women Voters, Ohio, and Reverend Brandi Slaughter, Policy Director for Ohio Council of Churches.

They have underscored the importance of our participation in redistricting in the process.

You are invited to join in the map drawing competition.

This is Pat Simons for Forum 360.

To find out more about us, go to forum360.org.

Thank you for joining me and have a great day.

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