>> Tim: WELCOME BACK TO THE SPECIAL CORRESPONDENTS EDITION OF THE RECORD AS WE LOOK AT THE GUN ISSUE VOTE IN THE STATE SENATE.

AROUND THE OTR PANEL, JONATHAN OOSTING, CLARA HENDRICKSON, ZOE CLARK AND RICK PLUTA.

SIT IN WITH US AS WE GET THE INSIDE OUT..OFF THE RECORD PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD" IS MADE IN PART BY MARTIN WAY MEYER, A FULL SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION AGENCIES PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS RELATIONS AND PUBLIC POLICY.

NOW, THIS EDITION OF "OFF THE RECORD" WITH TIM SKUBICK.

>> Tim: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WELCOME TO "OFF THE RECORD."

GUN ISSUE GETTING THROUGH THE STATE SENATE.

WHAT DID THEY DO YESTERDAY?

>> YESTERDAY, THEY VOTED ON 11 BILLS TO MOVE FORWARD ON THIS TRIO OF GUN SAFETY MEASURES.

UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS, SAFE STORAGE REQUIREMENTS AND THIRD IS RED FLAG LAWS.

IT'S BIG STEP FORWARD FOR DEMOCRATS, STATE SENATOR ROSEMARY WHO ADVANCED THIS LEGISLATION, MOVING FORWARD AGAIN IN THE WAKE OF THE MASS SHOOTING.

>> Tim: NO SURPRISE THAT REPUBLICANS VOTED NO?

>> THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN SIGNALING THIS FOR MONTHS.

GOVERNOR WHITMER SAID LAST FALL, SENDING ME THE BILLS, I'LL SIGN THEM.

IT'S THE SAME BUCKETS AS CLARA MENTIONED.

THESE ARE THE ACTION IS COME IN THE WAY OF THE MSU SHOOTING.

THESE ARE POLICIES DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN DEVELOPING FOR YEARS.

NO REAL SURPRISES.

THERE WERE COUPLE OF MODIFICATIONS HERE AND THERE.

WHICH DEMOCRATS ACTUALLY ENDING UP TAKING OUT OF THE BILL.

THERE WERE SOME LANGUAGE IN THERE THAT WOULD HAVE REMOVED BLANKET LEGAL LIABILITY FOR GUN MANUFACTURES AND SELLERS IF THEY DID SOMETHING WRONG IN SELLING A GUN THAT WAS THEN USED IN A CRIME.

THERE IS ALREADY A FEDERAL LEGAL IMMUNITY FOR THESE MANUFACTURES.

IT'S UNCLEAR HOW BIG IMPACT THE STATE CHANGE WOULD HAVE.

IT RAISED LOT EYEBROWS.

>> Tim: IT'S SYMBOLIC.

IF YOU CAN SUE A CAR MANUFACTURE, WHY CAN'T YOU SUE A GUN OWNER MANUFACTURE?

>> THESE ARE NOT GOING TO BE THE ONLY -- IT'S SORT OF THREE MAJOR ISSUES.

11 PIECES OF LEGISLATION.

THIS ISN'T GOING TO BE THE END OF THIS.

THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

THIS IS SOME LEGISLATION THAT I THINK WAS ALREADY PUT TOGETHER.

WHICH IS WHY THEY WERE ABLE TO BRING IT TO THE FLOOR SO QUICKLY.

AFTER WHAT HAPPENED AT MSU.

AS I WAS TALKING TO SENATOR BARRIS, MAJOR FIGURE OVER GUN SAFETY FOR YEARS.

THIS IS NOT GOING TO BE THE END.

WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IS PASS THESE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT'S NEXT.

>> THE LEGAL IMMUNITY QUESTION STILL COME UP IN LEGISLATION.

THE DECISION WAS MADE TO PULL THAT OUT, THEY HAD THE SUPPORT FOR THE SAFE STORAGE POLICY.

>> Tim: SHE SAID IT NEEDED MORE WORK.

WHICH IS CODE I DON'T HAVE THE VOTES >> THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF IMMUNITY, LOOK AT TOBACCO LEGISLATION.

WHICH IS THE TEMPLATE THAT REPUBLICANS ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT STATES WILL DOING THIS AND MAY BE THERE WILL BE SOME SORT OF NATIONAL TEMPLATE.

THERE'S THE CULTURE QUESTION THAT THE MORE YOU PUSH THESE -- THIS SORT OF SETS THE TABLE FOR MORE ACTION ON GUNNEL SAFETY LATER ON.

THAT INCLUDES MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES THAT INCLUDES MAY BE SOME MORE SPECIFIC RESTRICTIONS THAT INCLUDES LIABILITY QUESTIONS.

THEY ARE GOING IT START PICKING AT THESE ONE-BY-ONE IN A MUCH MORE NARROW WAY THAN WHAT WE SAW THIS WEEK.

>> TO YOUR POINT ABOUT THEM HAVING THE VOTES AND GETTING IT DONE.

ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS THAT SENATOR BARRIS TALKS ABOUT, IT DOESN'T HAPPEN WITH LAWMAKERS.

SHE'S VOCAL ABOUT THE POLLING.

IT'S NOT ALWAYS THAT WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A POLICY ISSUE THAT LAWMAKER IS LIKE, WE'RE DOING THIS BASICALLY BECAUSE WE SEE THE POLLING, THIS IS A POPULAR ISSUE.

SHE CONTINUES TO TALK ABOUT THAT ALL THREE PIECE OF LEGISLATION RED FLAG LAWS, UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECK, SAFE STORAGE HAVE A MAJORITY OF MICHIGAN VOTERS IN FAVOR, MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS IN FAVOR.

THEY WILL CONTINUE TO DO POLLING.

JUST LAST WEEK WITH THE DETROIT NEWS AND WDIV, LOOKING AT THIS NEXT ITERATION OF BILLS AND WHERE PEOPLE MIGHT BE IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO SEE HAPPEN.

>> Tim: IT PUTS THE GUN RIGHTS FOLKS INTO A NARROW CORNER.

IT SAYS THAT ISN'T THE POPULOUS ISSUE THAT IT'S OFTEN PORTRAYED AS.

>> REMOVING IMMUNITY LANGUAGE FROM THE LEGISLATION, WAS KEY TO THAT.

DEMOCRATS REALLY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO SAY, WE ARE TRYING TO RESPECT CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS.

WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GRAB YOUR GUNS.

THESE ARE WIDELY EMBRACED POPULAR IDEAS THAT REPUBLICAN STATES HAVE DONE THAT IMMUNITY QUESTION THREW THINGS FOR A LOOP.

THAT OPENED UP A NEW DISCUSSION ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT ALL DEMOCRATS WEREN'T ABLE TO WALK THROUGH THAT.

>> Tim: REPUBLICANS TRYING TO GAIN THE MORAL HIGH GROUND BY OFFERING BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO DO THE MENTAL HEALTH, TO DO THE HARD YOHARDENING OFTHE SCHOOLS.

THE FLOOR LEADER SAID, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THIS IN A BUDGET.

STOP IT.

KNOCK IT OFF.

WHAT WERE THEY DOING BY PROPOSING THOSE BUDGET BILLS TO HELP THE PROBLEM?

>> THEY WERE BASICALLY TRYING TO SAY, LOOK, WE CARE ABOUT SCHOOL SAFETY.

IT'S A PRIORITY FOR US TOO.

THIS ISN'T A PARTISAN ISSUE.

LET'S FUND IT TO TRY TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM.

DEMOCRATS WERE BASICALLY SAY, WELL THAT'S JUST AN EXCUSE.

WE ARE GOING TO ADDRESS THIS FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD.

THEN, AT THE SAME TIME, YOU HAVE OTHER REPUBLICANS REALLY DRILLING DOWN ON THE SPECIFIC DETAILS OF THE MSU SHOOTING.

>> THE MORE NUANCE ARGUMENT THAT DEMOCRATS ARE MAKING THAT YOU CAN TAKE ANY ONE OF THESE AND SAY THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE STOPPED X SITUATION FROM HAPPENING.

THIS IS A START AND THIS IS THE BEGINNING OF GOING DOWN A ROAD OF CREATING A SAFER GUN CULTURE.

>> Tim: YOU BASICALLY THOUGH, THE REPUBLICANS NOW HAVE EVERY DEMOCRAT IN THE SENATE ON THE RECORD VOTING AGAINST PUTTING MONEY IN SCHOOLS TO MAKE THEM SAFE.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT'S ACTUALLY -- OF COURSE, JUST LIKE WHAT WE'VE SEEN THE PAST TWO WEEKS.

>> Tim: IT'S ONE OF THE POLITICAL FALLOUTS.

>> THAT'S WHY THEY DID IT.

[ LAUGHTER ] >> YOU DON'T ADD A BILLION DOLLARS TO POLICY BILL WITH A FLOOR AMENDMENT.

THAT'SING IN-- THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WILL TAKE MONTHS.

>> Tim: THIS IS LANSING, JONATHAN.

I THOUGHT ONE OF THE MOST FASCINATING EXCHANGE ON THE FLOOR YESTERDAY WAS BETWEEN TWO LAWMAKER.

DO YOU KNOW WHICH TWO I'M REFERRING TO?

THAT GOT INTO ISSUE WHAT THIS MEANS PROTECTING WOMEN?

OH, YEAH.

YOU REMEMBER THAT.

WHAT DID I GUYS MAKE OF THAT?

>> THAT WAS INTERESTING.

IT GETS AT THIS IDEA OF TRYING TO PREVENT GUN VIOLENCE BUT ACKNOWLEDGING THAT WE CAN PASS ALL THE BILLS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO ERADICATE GUN VIOLENCE.

PEOPLE WILL PROBABLY BUY FIREARMS AND KEEP FIREARMS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.

>> IT GOES BACK TO SAYING, ME NOT HAVING A GUN, MEANS I CAN'T PROTECT MYSELF.

THIS LEGISLATION IS NOT GETTING RID OF GUN.

THIS LEGISLATION IS NOT SAYING A WOMAN CANNOT GO AND BUY A GUN.

IT'S JUST NOT.

>> THE MICHIGAN CONSTITUTION HAS MORE EXPANSIVE GUN RIGHTS.

IT SAYS ONE OF THE REASONS THERE ARE FIREARM RIGHTS IN MICHIGAN IS THE RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE.

YOU COULDN'T GO DOWN THAT ROAD ALL THE WAY WITHOUT CHANGING THE MICHIGAN CONSTITUTION.

>> Tim: LAST TIME YOU WERE ON THE PROGRAM, YOU REFUSE TO TELL ME YOUR SURVEY RESULTS.

NOW IT'S GOOD EVENING TIME.

YOU HAD PEOPLE TELL YOU THAT THEY WERE GOING TO VOTE YES ON THAT STUFF YESTERDAY.

THEY DIDN'T.

>> THEY DIDN'T SAY THEY WOULD VOTE YES.

THEY SAID THEY SUPPORT THE THE CONCEPT OF RED FLAG LAW SAFE STORAGE.

NO LAWMAKER SAYING, WE WILL VOTE ON A BILL THAT HAVEN'T BEEN INTRODUCED YET.

WE FOUND THAT THERE WAS REPUBLICAN SUPPORT, AT LEAST SOME REPUBLICAN SUPPORT FOR THESE MEASURES.

THAT HAS NOT MATERIALIZED AT% ALL.

WE'VE ONLY SEEN PARTY LINE VOTES WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SALES TAX EXEMPTION.

TWO REPUBLICAN VOTES ON THAT.

DEMOCRATS SHOWN THEY WILL GET THIS ALL DONE CROSS THE FINISH LINE.

>> Tim: HOW CAN REPUBLICANS GO HOME AND SAY, 80% OF WANT THIS AND I VOTED NO?

>> REPUBLICAN PRIMARY.

>> THEY CAN DO SO BY SAYING WE PROPOSEDDAL BILLION DOLLARS TO MAKE IT BETTER, DEMOCRATS DIDN'T DO IT.

THAT'S THE POLITICKING.

WE'VE SEEN DEMOCRATS WHEN THEY WERE OUT OF POWER, AMENDMENTS ARE A CHANCE TO MAKE A STATEMENT.

THEY'RE NOT LEGITIMATELY GOING TO BECOME POLICY.

REPUBLICANS DID THAT.

>> DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE HAVE DIFFERENT VIEWS WHAT OUGHT TO BE DONE.

>> THERE'S ALSO THE ISSUE OF LOOK, REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES.

IF YOU CAN HAVE ONE TOPIC OR ONE VOTE THAT YOU CAN COME ON, WE HAVE SEEN THIS HAPPEN WHERE THERE'S ONE THING IN A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY THAT IS WHAT YOU MAKE THAT ONE VOTE ABOUT.

>> Tim: LET'S TALK ABOUT UTILITIES.

ANYBODY REMEMBER BRENDA LEE IN THE SONG "I'M SORRY"?

>> YOU'RE SHOWING YOUR AGE?

>> Tim: THAT COULD HAVE BEEN THE THEME SONG UNDERNEATH THE TESTIMONY ABOUT THE UTILITIES.

HERE'S WHAT THEY WERE TELLING THE COMMITTEE.

>> IT ENGULFED LARGE PORTION OF LOWER MICHIGAN WILL NOT BE FORGOTTEN.

ESPECIALLY BY THE MORE THAN 600,000 UTILITY CUSTOMERS WHO LOST POWER.

AND WAITED AND WAITED FOR THE JUICE TO COME BACK.

THE EVENT WILL ALSO NOT BE FORGOTTEN BY THESE LEGISLATORS.

AFTER CONSTITUENTS B BOMBARDED WITH THEM WITH COMPLAINTS.

THE HEARING BEGAN WITH AN APOLOGY.

>> I DO WANT TO APOLOGIZE ON BEHALF OF MYSELF AND ALL OF OUR CUSTOMERS AND ALL OF OUR EMPLOYEES TO THE CUSTOMERS AND COMMUNITIES THAT LOST POWER.

WE RECOGNIZE THAT ANY TIME WITHOUT POWER IS A HARDSHIP.

WE DO HAVE TO GO DAYS WITHOUT POWER, IT'S HARDER ON OUR CUSTOMERS.

THIS IS NOT THE SERVICE WE EXPECT TO CUSTOMER.

>> HIS COMPANY DID RESTORE SERVICE TO 95% OF CUSTOMERS.

IT'S THAT 5% THAT DREW LOTS OF CRITICISM.

>> THEY CUT JOB AND SERVICES ON THE BACKS OF OVERCHARGED CUSTOMERS.

THE CUSTOMERS GET AN UNRELIABLE PRODUCT.

>> HE EXPLAINED HE DID NOT CUT THE POWER RETURNING BUDGET IN ORDER TO FATTEN DIVIDEND FOR INVESTORS.

MOTHE COMMISSION IS PROPOSING A REBATE $35 A DAY.

THE CONSUMER ENERGY CEO WAS NOT AT TABLE.

THEY SUMMED UP THE PROBLEM.

MORE MONEY.

THIS DP DID NOT USE UTILITY RATE INCREASE ON YOU.

BUT PREFERRED TERM INSTEAD PROPER INVESTMENT.

>> WE ALL WANT A RELIABLE GRID.

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US.

I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE ALL CAN AGREE ON.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS WORK TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE WE'RE SUPPORTING THE PROPER INVESTMENTS THAT NEED TO HAPPEN SO THAT WE CAN HAVE THE RELIABLE GRID.

>> THIS MEMBER REPORTS THAT THE PANEL CANNOT MAKE MANAGEMENT DECISIONS FOR THE UTILITIES.

IT WILL LAUNCH A FIRST-TIME INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF THOSE DECISIONS WITH AN EYE TOWARD IMPROVING OUTAGE SERVICE THE NEXT TIME THIS HAPPENS.

WE WERE REALLY TALKING WITHOUT TALKING ABOUT RATE INCREASES ON CUSTOMERS TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, UTILITIES IN MICHIGAN ARE IN AN INTERESTING PLACE.

THEY ARE REGULATED INDUSTRIES.

THEY ARE PUBLICLY TRADED.

THEY HAVE COMPETING RESPONSIBILITIES AS FAR AS PROVIDING RELIABLE SERVICE A AT AN AFFORDABLE COST AND PROVIDING GREATEST RATE OF RETURN FOR INVESTINVESTORS.

THAT'S THE NEEDLE THEY ARE THREADING.

GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY, I SUSPECT THAT INVESTOR RETURN IS PROBABLY THE PRIORITY.

>> I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO WAIT TO SEE IF THERE'S ANY FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE HERE.

WHAT WE KEEP HEARING IS, THESE ARE THE 50-YEAR, 100-YEAR STORMS.

AS URAL PIECE -- AS YOUR COMPETE NOTED, CLIMATE CHANGE IS HAPPENING.

SOMETHING IS GOING TO CHANGE.

I DON'T KNOW THAT THIS IS THE MOMENT THAT WILL HAPPEN.

>> Tim: IF NOT THIS, WHAT?

>> THAT'S THE QUESTION.

IS THERE ENOUGH ATTENTION.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IT WHEN THE WEATHER GETS REALLY BAD IN THESE MOMENTS.

WE KNOW THIS IS COMING.

I DON'T KNOW ONCE THE WEATHER SPRING UP, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT GETTING THE BUDGET POSSIBLY DONE BY JULY 1, AND WHAT'S NEXT FOR DEMOCRATS ON THEIR AGENDA COMING BACK FROM SPRAIN BREAK.

MAY BE I'M BEING A LITTLE PESSIMISTIC HERE AND BEING A DEBBIE DOWNER.

I DON'T KNOW THAT IF FOLKS WATCHING -- THIS WASN'T LIKE REMEMBER THE AUTOS WERE HAULED IN FRONT OF CONGRESS BACK DURING THE BAILOUT DAYS.

IT WAS ALL THIS ATTENTION.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE WATCHED IN HEARING.

FOLKS WERE ANGRY AND FRUSTRATED AND MAD.

>> I'M WITH YOU IN CYNICISM.

WE'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE BEFORE.

THE UTILITIES ARE UNABLE TO RESTORE POWER QUICKLY.

LAWMAKERS DRAG THEM IN FOR A HEARING.

WHAT THEY SAID AT THE HEARING IS PROBABLY ISN'T IMPORTANT.

ARE THOSE LAWMAKERS TAKE CONCRETE STEPS TO CHANGE LAWS.

>> WILL UTILITIES TAKE THE DRAMATIC ACTION THAT'S PROMISED IN HEARING?

IF YOU'RE A SCORE VICE PRESIDENT OF A UTILITY, PART OF THE JOB INTERVIEW IS GOING TO INCLUDE, BY THE WAY, PART OF THE JOB IS YOU'RE GOING TO APPEAR BEFORE LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEES AND ENDURE A THRASHING.

>> Tim: EXCEPT THE CONSUMER ENERGY PERSON IS NOT THERE.

SENT TWO VPs.

>> THIS IS WHAT YOU DO IN CRISES COMMUNICATION.

PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU, YOU GO AND YOU DO IT AND YOU APOLOGIZE.

YOU DON'T GET TESTY.

YOU SAY IT IS OUR FAULT.

WE'RE SORRY.

I'M GETTING AT WHAT IS THAT GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND IS THERE A SOLUTION.

IT'S HARD WORK.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE MONEY.

>> I SHOULD HAVE COUNTED HOW MANY APOLOGIES WERE ISSUED DURING THAT COMMITTEE HEARING.

SHE SAID THAT PROFITS OVER PEOPLE.

SHE PROMISED TO CREATE A WORK GROUP TO SEE WHERE THAT GOES.

I THOUGHT ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING PARTS, HEARING FROM THE MAYOR OF HIGHLAND PARK.

WE KNOW THE IMPACT THESE OUTAGES HAVE ON PEOPLE SUCH AS SPOILED FOOD, MEDICINE AND BREAST MILK.

TO HEAR FROM THE MAYOR WHO SAID THE LAST POWER OUTAGES I LOST MY CITY HALL, FIRE DEPARTMENT, POLICE DEPARTMENT, TWO SENIOR CENTERS ALL WENT DARK.

>> Tim: IN THE DI DEFENSE OF UTILITIES, THEY DID HAVE A PRIORITY LIST.

THE NURSING HOMES HOSPITALS.

THEY HAD 90 GENERATORS.

PEOPLE SHARED WITH THEM.

WE GOT PROBLEMS.

THEY ARE DOING THE BEST THEY CAN.

YOU KNOW WHAT, THEY WOULD ARGUE THAT IF WE DON'T HAVE INVESTORS, WE DON'T GOT NOTHING.

>> THIS IS WHAT RICK WAS SAYING.

HOW DO YOU DO BOTH?

CAN YOU DO BOTH?

WE'VE SEEN THIS MOVIE BEFORE.

>> INVESTORS ARE ALSO PENSION FUNDS, RETIREMENT FUNDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> RESTORING POWER, BRINGING OUT GENERATORS AND CREWS FROM OTHER STATES, THAT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD.

THE ISSUE THERE NEEDS TO BE PREPARATION.

THE UTILITIES KNOW THIS.

THEY ARE ALREADY STARTING AGGRESSIVE TREE TRIMMING PROGRAM.

THAT'S REALLY THE SIMPLEST SOLUTION.

WE'VE SEEN IN LANSING, THERE WAS MAJOR ICE STORM HERE.

BWL MUNICIPALLY OWNED UTILITY HAS BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE.

DONE SOME REALLY UGLY WORK ON TREES IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> BRING IN THE GENERATOR TO RESTORE POWER IS A FAILURE.

THAT MEANS THAT YOU'VE TURNED TO THE BACKUP TO THE BACKUP SYSTEM BECAUSE THE NORMAL SYSTEM AND NORMAL SERVICE THAT YOU SUPPOSED TO BE PROVIDING THAT SYSTEM IS FALLING APART.

WE ARE GOING TO, IF THE UTILITIES DON'T STEP UP AND TAKE CARE OF THIS, I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DO IT IN SHORT ORDER.

THERE IS DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT UTILITY SERVICE IN MICHIGAN SHOULD BE MORE CENTRALIZED ON MUNICIPAL OR GOVERNMENT OWNED SERVICE AS OPPOSED TO INVESTOR OWNED UTILITIES.

>> YOU GOT THE FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE WHO'S NOW WASHENTAW COUNTY COMMISSIONER TALKING ABOUT THAT.

>> Tim: THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE WAS.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS AN ABSENCE THAT WAS NOTABLE.

AM I RIGHT OR WRONG?

>> I'M NOT SURE.

>> Tim: SOMETHING LIKE THIS, THE TOP PERSON WHOMEVER HE OR SHE IS, SHOULD BE IN THAT CHAIR.

>> WELL, I ASSUME THAT AT SOME POINT.

THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION WILL BE CALLED IN.

>> Tim: THEY WERE INVITED TO THIS HEARING.

RICK, WERE YOU THERE?

>> WE'LL SEE A SENATE HEARING.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

>> Tim: LET TALK ABOUT THE CURRENT CHAIRPERSON OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHO BASICALLY PUTTING A FOR RENT SIGHT ON REPUBLICAN HEADQUARTERS.

>> THE NEW CHAIR OF THE MICHIGAN GOP TOLD FELLOW REPUBLICANS LAST WEEK THAT SHE WILL NOT BE USING THE TRADITIONAL PARTY HEADQUARTERS IN LANSING.

WHICH IS OWNED BY A TRUST OF FORMER MICHIGAN GOP CHAIRS.

SHE SAYS THE RENT IS TOO HIGH.

TO USE PG VERSION OF THAT SAYING.

INSTEAD, SHE'S GOING TO SET UP SOME REGIONAL OFFICES IN THE STATE WHERE THOSE ARE GOING TO BE, WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS WHICH P.O.

BOX.

IT'S A P.O.

BOX IN GRAND RAPIDS.

IT GETS TO THIS QUESTION WHAT THE PARTY WILL LOOK LIKE INSTITUTIONALLY MOVING FORWARD.

>> Tim: DOES ANYBODY CARE?

>> WE DON'T HAVE A FUNCTIONING REPUBLICAN PARTY IN THAT THE STATE.

>> Tim: YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE A HEADQUARTERS TO PLAY POLITICS.

>> YOU NEED TO HAVE A HEADQUARTERS FOR PEOPLE TO MEET.

YOU NEED TO HAVE A HEADQUARTERS WHERE YOU GOT THE PEOPLE MANAGING THE BANK ACCOUNTS AND THE CAMPAIGN FUNDS.

THEORETICALLY, YOU CAN DO IT FROM REMOTE LOCATIONS.

LOT OF US HAVE LEARNED TO REMOTE WORK.

THAT'S ONLY A PARTIAL SOLUTION.

NOT TO MENTION, IT'S JUST AN EMBARRASSMENT THAT NEW GROUP OF PEOPLE TAKES OVER THE PARTY AND THE FIRST THING YOU DO, YOU PUT A FOR RENT SIGN UP AT THE REPUBLICAN HEADQUARTERS BECAUSE YOUR DONORS BAILED.

>> THE PHYSICAL LOCATION I DON'T THINK MATTERS A TON.

LANSING IS AN OBVIOUS SPOT FOR A STATE PARTY HEADQUARTERS.

BECAUSE YOU'RE CLOSE TO THE CAPITOL FOR PRESS CONFERENCES TO RESPOND TO HAPPENINGS AT THE CAPITOL TO LOGICAL GATHERING SPACE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STATE.

THAT SAID, IT'S 2023.

YOU DON'T NECESSARILY NEED A BRICK AND MORTAR OPERATION FOR ALL OF THESE FUNCTIONS.

IT GETS TO THE POINT THAT HOW FUNCTIONAL IS A PARTY GOING TO BE MOVING FORWARD.

DONORS, FORMER GOP CHAIRS WHO OWN THAT BUILDING ARE VERY CONNECTED TO THE D DONOR CLASS.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT SHE HAS STRUGGLED TO GET E-MAIL LISTS OF REPUBLICAN MEMBERS FROM SIMPLE THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Tim: A DEAL WAS APPARENTLY REACHED WHEN THE FORMER REPUBLICAN CHAIR -- >> IT'S TWO MONTHS IN HER TENURE.

>> SO MUCH OF THIS IS ABOUT THE OPTICS.

WHEN YOU SAY IS IT A STORY OR NOT.

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE THIS CONVENTION RIGHT.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH TIME.

THEY HAVEN'T RENTED THE FACILITY FOR LONG ENOUGH.

THERE WERE FOLKS THERE HANDING OUT GARBAGE BAGS TO PICK UP GARBAGE.

IT GOES BACK TO FEELING LIKE IT'S NOT ORGANIZED.

WHEN FUNDERS ARE LOOKING AT THAT, WHERE DO YOU WANT TO PUT YOUR MONEY?

>> Tim: WHAT IS THERE TO THE STORY THAT A SHADOW PARTY IS BEING FORM BEHIND THE SCENES WHICH WILL GO AROUND THE HIERARCHY AND PICK CANDIDATES FOR SENATE AND U.S. HOUSE.

>> YOU SEEN SORT OF EFFORTS LIKE THIS IN THE PAST.

I THINK THE CHALLENGE IS THAT YOU CAN PICK CANDIDATES THAT YOU WANT AND FUND THEM.

YOU HAVE A DELICATE PROBLEM IF YOU WANT OREPUBLICAN CANDIDATES TO CHANGE.

YOU GOT TO CHANGE THE MAKE-UP OF THE DELEGATES WHO PICK SECRETARY OF STATE CANDIDATES, ATTORNEY GENERAL CANDIDATES MICHIGAN SUPREME COURT CANDIDATES AT CONVENTIONS.

>> Tim: YOU CAN GO OUT AND PICK PEOPLE A ARE RUNNING FOR THE HOUSE AND FUND THEM?

YOU CAN PICK A CANDIDATE FOR THE U.S. SENATE AND GIVE THEM MONEY.

>> LOT OF THESE REPUBLICANS SAYING, THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO START PUTTING OUR MONEY AND INTEREST.

>> Tim: WHICH SETTINGS UP A BEAUTIFUL INTRAPARTY CIVIL WAR.

>> IT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

>> THIS WORK AROUND SYSTEM IS A BREAK GLASS IN CASE OF A EMERGENCY SOLUTION.

WE'RE SEEING THE BIG DONORS AND CHRISTINE W CAN TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE -- >> THIS IS NOT TOTALLY NEW PHENOMENON.

THE MICHIGAN GOP STRUGGLED TO RAISE FUNDS LAST TERM AS WELL.

THE FORMER CHAIR FUNDED THE PARTY BY HIMSELF.

>> Tim: BECAUSE THE BIG FUNDERS SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY.

>> THEY ALSO FUNDING THEIR OWN CANDIDATES ON THE OUTSIDE ALREADY THROUGH BOTH DIRECT CONTRIBUTIONS AND INDEPENDENT EXPENDITURE GROUPS.

IT'S NOT ENTIRELY NEW PHENOMENO PHENOMENON.

>> Tim: I THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO FIELD THEIR CANDIDATES.

WE'LL HAVE A DONNY BROOK OVER THIS.

>> WE GOT A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY HAPPENING IN THE STATE NEXT YEAR.

>> Tim: GOODNESS GRACIOUS, THAT WENT BY FAST.

>> LANSING WAS BUSY THIS WEEK.

>> Tim: IT WAS.

YOU WERE ALL BUSY PROVIDING INSIGHTFUL COMMENTARY AND.

MORE NEXT WEEK ON "OFF THE RECORD."

>> PRODUCTION OF "OFF THE RECORD" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MARTIN WAYMEYER, A FULL SERVICE STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION AGENCY, PARTNERING WITH CLIENTS THROUGH PUBLIC RELATIONINGS AND DIGITAL MARKETING.

FOR MORE "OFF THE RECORD" VISIT WKAR.ORG.

MICHIGAN PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO THE PRODUCTION COST OF "OFF THE RECORD."