(gentle, introductory music) - [Narrator] This is a production of WEDU, PBS, Tampa, St. Petersburg, Sarasota.

- [Rob Lorei] Next, on WEDU, Insurance companies score a big win in the legislature.

Legislature moves towards a massive expansion of school vouchers.

The governor wants to make the "don't say gay law" apply to all grades in Florida.

A mass shooting incident is stopped by unarmed men in Tampa.

And we'll look at part of a new documentary on how Rays baseball came to St. Petersburg.

All this and more, next on Florida This Week.

(energetic music) - Welcome back, joining us on our panel this week, Kathleen Peters is a Pinellas County Commissioner and a Republican.

Joe Henderson is a recently retired political journalist for floridapolitics.com, and a former columnist and reporter for the Tampa Tribune.

Darryl Rouson is a state Senator representing parts of Hillsborough and Pinellas counties and a Democrat, and Janelle Irwin Taylor is a political consultant and the owner of Summit Communications Strategies.

It's nice to see all of you.

Thank you for coming on the show.

The Florida Senate on Thursday gave final passage to a bill that would make it harder to sue insurance companies.

The bill takes away a long standing right to have insurance companies pay legal fees if they lose a case.

Florida already has some of the highest auto and homeowners insurance rates in the nation.

Governor DeSantis and top Republican leaders backed the legislation, saying it's necessary to curb lawsuits, predicting it will drive down the high cost of insurance in the future.

Former President Trump disagreed with the Tallahassee Republicans though saying the bill is a bailout for the insurance industry.

and show- - [Keith Ligori] Nowhere in the bill does it say that they guarantee the reduce the rates by the amount of money that they save by not paying out the claims.

- Janelle, how big of a change is this to Florida insurance and legal law?

- [Janelle] I mean, it's huge, there, This is an omnibus bill with numerous components.

There would be, in my opinion, detrimental effects to all Floridians, to consumers through a variety of different ways.

There, it would be harder to get compensation for negligent acts.

It would, potentially, risk access to healthcare in a case of an accident.

There's a number of problems with this bill.

What I take umbrage with is the fact that it's being called 'tort reform' and that implies that it's a good thing, that it's making it better.

And there's a lot of people who would disagree with that, including a lot of attorneys who are being painted as sort of these ambulance chasers just out to make a bunch of money on fraudulent claims.

And while I'm sure that does happen, it does not happen as often as it is portrayed.

And I think the biggest change that this would make is to how attorneys bill their clients, through the claims process, through, through a lawsuit process.

This bill relies heavily on, well, law now, since the governor has signed it, it relies heavily on what's called the load star method.

And that basically means that attorneys have to bill their clients a reasonable sum for their services on the front ends.

So, it removes what basically allows people to put the risk on their attorneys.

This whole, you don't pay if you don't win mentality.

- [Rob] That you see the mentality all the time.

- Exactly.

Yeah.

It removes that.

And you know, there's a lot of rationale for doing that but, not all Floridians can afford to out of pocket legal expenses for a case that they may or may not win.

And you might be able to make the argument that, well, if you're not gonna win the case, why are you suing?

But any, any legal case no matter how solid of a case you have, is a risk.

And a lot of people can't afford to take that risk.

And so this makes it so that only the affluent and wealthy have access to the justice system when they are wronged.

- [Rob] Kathleen, you served in the legislature.

Did you hear many stories when you were up there in Tallahassee, about frivolous lawsuits or unnecessary lawsuits or just, you know, the, the that maybe the trial lawyers have too much power when it comes to lawsuits?

- So when I was in the legislature, we talked a lot about it was mostly homeowner's insurance, flood insurance and and how people would get a leak but all of a sudden get a brand new house.

You know?

And, and my own personal experience is automobile.

You know, I had an experience with someone and it was to me complete fraud that this gentleman sued and was able to receive a hundred thousand dollars and the insurance company wouldn't even battle it based on fraud because it was just easier and cheaper to settle.

And so when they're paying out these large sums of money without even an effort to prove that there was fraud taking place, I, you know, I, you know I'm not saying it's a perfect bill.

I haven't read the bill so I have a hard time commenting on the bill.

I haven't heard the debate.

Janelle makes great points.

Like I said, I just don't, this bill I'm uncomfortable talking about.

But I will tell you, there's always been talk about the enormous amounts of frizzle, frivolous lawsuits.

And I personally have experienced those myself where I'm confident it was fraud, but they refused to even, you know, the insurance company even said they're confident it's fraud but there's nothing they can do.

They have to pay out a hundred thousand dollars.

- [Rob] Darrell, do you think that rates are gonna come down and, and what do you think about Janelle's point that it's gonna be harder for low and moderate income people to bring a lawsuit if they think they've been injured?

- [Darryl] I don't think rates are gonna come down right away, if at all, but they keep telling us, wait, you'll see.

You know, Janelle makes a good point.

For me the biggest problem with this bill is two things.

One, it reduces the timeframe within which you can file suit from four years to two years.

And then it takes away the big stick: bad faith damages.

We hope that if you need coverage under your policy like a good neighbor, you'll be in good hands.

But what we see is low balls, denials, delays and it forces one, because of complex coverage issues, to be able to to get a lawyer to help them navigate this system.

- [Rob] Okay.

Well, let's move on to our next topic.

The Florida Senate gave final approval this week to a bill creating Universal School vouchers and sent it to Governor DeSantis for his expected approval.

The Senate voted 26 to 12 along party lines to approve the bill.

It's HB1 Republican state lawmakers who hold the super majority in the legislature want to open state voucher programs that currently provide scholarships to about a quarter of a million children to every school age child in the state.

That's 2.9 million kids.

The cost, well, it's uncertain.

At the low end, 210 million, at the high end, 4 billion dollars in the first year.

And Joe, let's talk about school vouchers.

Should they be expanded?

Is it a good idea?

And should everybody in Florida have access to school vouchers?

- [Joe] No, it's not a good idea.

The problem is school choice is a way of life now in Florida, we know that it's been that way for a while, that's never gonna change.

But there were certain levels that vouchers were supposed to address to be able to send your kid to private school or whatever.

Now, it doesn't matter how much money you make you're still eligible for a voucher.

What this does, it creates another drain on the public school funding.

It drives people from the public schools, which, honestly I think is the intent of the Republicans backing this bill.

- [Rob] Darrell, let me ask you, how does this affect the public school system?

What, what can the public school system expect if vouchers are given to everybody in the state?

- It will have a terrible effect.

And you are right.

The cost of this bill has been estimated to be anywhere from 626 million dollars up to 2 billion dollars, depending on who you ask.

If the problem is lack of quality or poor instruction in public schools, why aren't we shoring up public schools?

The intent behind the voucher has expanded.

It was in the beginning to be for low income poor children to have access to high quality private education that other kids were getting.

But as Joe says, when you expand this into middle income and upper income families no matter what the income level is, that's a huge expansion.

And the money has to come from somewhere.

- [Rob] And where's it gonna come from, Darrell?

- Well, they say "General Revenue."

They've created a Florida tax incentive program of a hundred million dollars where corporations can defer their taxes, by paying into this fund.

In fact one of the senators tried to offer an amendment using a Florida tax incentive to fund public schools.

The quest, the the real issue is that you're taking away from public schools.

- [Rob] Hmm, Janelle, a lot of people I think favor vouchers because it gives people freedom to send their kids to the school of choice that the parents have.

So doesn't this enhance freedom, for parents?

- I mean, that's, that is what is so amazing about this issue from a political strategy standpoint.

This is a winning and has been a winning issue for Republicans over and over and over again, for decades.

Going all the way back to Jeb Bush was really kind of the father of all of this.

And you know what it does?

Is it, what parent is going to say, "no, I don't want the option to send my kid to an expensive private school that I wouldn't otherwise be able to afford."

That's everybody that's like free candy when you're running for senate, you know, school president.

So what it ignores, though, is the fact that not everybody can go to a private school.

There just isn't enough infrastructure for that to be the case.

So the people who are stuck still in public schools are operating in a system that, in my opinion, Republicans, through these school choice programs, are actively setting up to fail.

And we see that not just with the school choice programs, but all of these other attacks on public education with restricting books, with telling teachers what they can and cannot teach.

It is all just degrading the access that we should have to a free and quality public education.

- [Rob] Okay.

- [Darryl] And what they gloss over is the word uniform.

I think it's contained in our constitutional mandate.

Well, we don't have uniformity when it comes to public schools that are accepting these vouchers.

- [Rob] Okay.

Well, the DeSantis administration wants to expand the so-called "don't say gay law."

The new rule with bar teachers in grades 4 to 12 from intentionally providing classroom instruction on those topics, unless the lessons are expressly required by the state's academic standards or are part of a reproductive health course.

The proposed rule is scheduled for a vote on April 19th.

And if the state's education board approves, teachers who violate it could be suspended or see their teaching licenses revoked.

And Joe, let me start with you.

Does this, does, is this an expansion of freedom or is this a limit on what can be taught in the classroom?

- Well, it's a total limit and I'm always gonna have the public teachers' backs.

You know, I have teachers in my family, I'm, you know I'm all in on public education.

They are scared to death by these edicts out of Tallahassee about what you can and can't say.

And the problem is, it's so murky about what offends somebody.

so little Johnny hears, goes home and tells his parents, "Oh, my teacher said this" maybe he didn't hear it right.

Or, "oh, he made me feel bad."

So now they sue.

So the teacher is up there going, trying to walk this tightrope every day.

And what this "don't say gay" expansion does, is now it goes all the way through the education system and it is a, going to be a disaster.

- [Rob] Kathleen, what do you think about expanding this limit on talking about gay and lesbian issues for, to fourth through 12th grade?

- So, I, I got a couple issues with it.

Now, first off, I'm okay with not having curriculum through eighth grade.

I don't think we should be teaching about heterosexuality nor homosexuality through eighth grade.

So, the legislation that's in the, you know that's currently in the legislature, I, I would definitely support.

What I have an issue with, the one that's K through 12.

That's the Department of Education.

I think it should go through the legislative process.

I don't think it should be unanimously done through, through that board.

So, I would prefer to see it go through the legislature, just like the first parental rights bill went through.

My other concern is once you get into high school, you have children that are 18 years old when they're sophomores, juniors, and they're not, they're technically adults.

And so, I think when you go into high school, it gets different.

And although the brain doesn't fully develop till you're 25, they're definitely people in high school and in the later teen years, that definitely identify one way or the other.

And youth that identify as LGBTQ+, they there's already a high, higher suicide rate among that population.

Often they can feel like they don't belong, like they're not normal.

And so I, you know, as far as I, I'm concerned I don't think we should be teaching and to the point that it's indoctrination, but I think there should be clubs.

I think there should be definitely counseling and there should be opportunities for these kids to express themselves and know who they are feel good about who they are, and not risk a higher rate of alienation or anything else that could lead to other mental health issues.

And so, so, so I, I do support through K12 or through eighth grade, but you know, again how do you identify in high school, who's 18, who's an adult, who's not an adult?

I think it gets muddy.

But mostly my problem with this process is it's not going through the legislature, and I think it should.

- [Rob] Darrell, what do you think about that?

Should it go through the legislature and is the governor on the right track?

- It should go through the legislature but here's the problem.

We are fostering a culture of fear.

Fear on the part of the teachers and fear on the part of the parents.

Teachers don't, professional teachers don't purpose in their mind to groom a child to be anything, or indoctrinate a child to be anything, but successful, and learning.

The environment should be free to learn.

And teachers should be free to teach.

- [Rob] Okay, well, the Florida House has approved a Bill that would allow untrained people to carry concealed weapons almost anywhere in the state.

Such laws can make things worse.

A study conducted by Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health found that right to carry laws in 34 states were associated with a 24% increase in the rate of assaults with firearms.

The vote came just days after a heavily armed man attempted to enter an adult nightclub in Tampa.

The man was subdued by several unarmed security guards.

- There's no question in my mind, that had it not been for the brave man you see standing next to me, that we could have been here discussing a mass shooting in the city of Tampa.

But thanks to their heroic actions, today, an armed suspect is in custody and no lives were lost.

- Janelle, the argument for permit-less carry is that it takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy.

But here a horrible accident or horrible crime rather, incident, was stopped at Mons Venus in Tampa with two guys that were unarmed.

- Yeah, I, I mean, I, I cannot overstate how sick I am of the good guy with a gun rationale for this gun crazy mentality that we seem to have in the great state of Florida.

I think ,when you're looking at these issues of gun rights, gun control, whatever it is, we're throwing common sense out the window.

And as, as Senator Rouson pointed out on a different topic just a just a moment ago, you know we're operating with this culture of fear, that is what is happening in our, you know, deep red Tallahassee, right?

We are seeing this we have to have a good guy with a gun because otherwise a bad guy with a gun is gonna come and get you instead of saying, well, how do we make sure that bad guys don't have guns in the first place?

So, I'm just really frustrated with with what has become a big giant boogeyman all for the purpose of not making the NRA angry and making sure that those campaign contributions keep on rolling in and that the base is satiated so that they can carry guns whenever, wherever, however they want.

I just think it's gotten absolutely outta control.

- Joe, I think it's clear though and people in Tallahassee say if the more guns we have on the streets in people's hands than when an incident happens, there'll be somebody, a good guy with a gun there to take care of that incident.

- [Joe] Yeah, that's kind of a crazy idea, because that assumes that the good guy with the gun will be cool under pressure and trained and know exactly what he or she is shooting at.

And now you want to add, as we noted permit-less, train-less carry to the mix.

And by the way, it looks like the Senate will not take that bill up, so that's a positive, but - [Janelle] Well, but why?

The reason for them not taking it up, it's not because they're like, well, maybe this isn't a good idea.

It's because the, their base goes, 'you're not going far enough.'

Well, that's what's in, that's what's crazy about it, to me.

- [Joe] You take your wins where you can get them.

- I guess, I'm - [Rob] All right, well, the Tampa Bay Rays are celebrating their 25th anniversary this season, but how did the Bay Area finally become a Major League Baseball community?

Next Thursday, we'll show you the ups and downs of landing a team in our documentary Rise of the Rays: A Devil of a Tale.

Here's a preview.

- George Steinbrenner, living in Tampa at that point, told me in no uncertain terms, and I printed it, "Do not proceed in St. Petersburg with building this stadium.

We're not gonna guarantee you a team out of this and you're gonna be sorry if you do."

- I think it was the quote from Jack Lake, he said "and they told us not to build a stadium" and I kind of, did they really say that?

Don't build it.

He said, "yes, they did.

They said it would be counterproductive if you do."

And, Pinellas County went ahead and built one anyway, ignoring what baseball told them.

- I say, St. Petersburg's future is now, and I vote "yes."

- [Reporter] The council voted six to three to go ahead with the project.

- [Bob Ulrich] There was a lot of dissension, a lot of anger.

- [Reporter] The use of public money angered many - [Bob Ulrich] And anger that was not unjustified.

- [Jim Parker] Our funds, our tourism funds that were of such value to us at the time should not have just been.

without a referendum at least, or something of that nature just siphoned off in that, that magnitude towards a stadium.

- And of course, several of those who supported this stadium fell to the voters' vote in the next election.

- [Peter Golenbock] So they built the Suncoast Dome.

138 millions dollars of bonds.

- [Bob Ulrich] In four years, we raised taxes twice.

Well, isn't anybody happy about that?

- So, Joe, they took a gamble.

They, it was sort of like, like if you build it, they will come, but they had no idea that would really come and they were warn not to do it.

- Yeah.

And it serves as a cautionary tale for any other city that thinks that this would be a good idea.

Yeah.

Finally got a team, but at what cost?

And, as I covered all of that, it took, you know in dog years, it, it aged me beyond belief.

But, I was glad I did because it, it was a gave me great insight that I wouldn't have had just as an quote, 'ordinary sports writer.'

- [Rob] Did you think it was folly to build the stadium?

- Absolutely.

Yeah.

I, that clip you ran of, with George Steinbrenner, to amplify that just a little bit, he said "Don't build it, blah, blah, blah."

And I wrote that, St. Pete Times came back the next day and said, "Well, Mr. Steinbrenner is on Tampa side, so let's ignore him."

(man laughing) "And he's not speaking for the commissioner."

The commissioner then came out and said, "no, he was speaking for me."

And then they said, "Well, we know you gotta say that, but let's build it, anyway" - Darryl, the heart of the black community in a way, was torn out with the building of that stadium.

Has that community ever been made whole and in, in these plans for new development around the stadium?

Could it be made whole?

- The community has never been made whole and it's, it's okay for us to go back and second guess whether it should have been done in the first place.

But the real question, like Joe brings up, at what cost?

Both at the dollar cost, the economic cost to build, and then at the cost to a community of people that were promised jobs, that were promised ancillary economic development, that were pro promised affordable housing, all of those things that never came through fruition, but it's time now that we be paid back.

And I don't mean reparations, I mean business opportunities.

I mean affordable housing.

I mean building up a community that was decimated and has barely recovered since they relocated or closed 65% of the black-owned businesses in the gas plant area.

- [Rob] Well, the Rise of the Rays: A Devil of a Story premiers next Thursday, March 30th at 9:00 PM here on WEDU.

Well, before we go, what other news story should we be paying attention to?

And Kathleen, let's start with you.

Your other big story of the week.

- Well, I, you know, I'm pretty biased in this conversation but after many years of hard work, we will be launching a center receiving system for people that suffer from mental health.

And it'll be launched in about two months.

I'd really love to come back and talk about that.

Also, keep your eye out on the opiate settlements that are coming out.

The state's gonna receive a lot of money.

The county's gonna receive a lot of money.

We have a outstanding program that is happening at Bayfront Medical Center right now.

We're having great results, less recidivism with ambulance rides to the ER, which saves a lot of money in healthcare.

And I would love to come back and talk about both those programs.

It's very exciting and, and I'm hoping that people know that there'll be access to care.

- And I know you're a champion of mental healthcare, Joe, you're all the big story.

- Well, we just talked about the Rise of the Rays and opening day is Thursday, and I will be watching that mostly to see how the new speed up the game rules affect it.

And I'm really excited about that.

I think it's gonna be great.

- All right, Darryl, you're all the big story.

- Well, I think the big story for me for the week is this teacher that was fired by teaching about Michelangelo's statue of David, and how far is this going to go?

- [Rob] Yeah, the, the teacher.

The teacher was fired because it was the statue was anatomically correct.

And, Janelle, your big story - Well, I'll segue into that.

Clearly we're afraid of, you know, human anatomy.

The transgender bill that's currently working its way through the legislative process that would, basically, block in a nutshell, transgender care for, for adolescents.

I think this is another example of a prob, a solution in search of a problem.

And the reason I'm watching it is, is not because of the bill itself, necessarily, but because of this trend.

And I wanna see what the political implications are, not next week, but you know, the week after, the month after, going into 2024, How this plays out on a national stage.

If we're looking at having a governor who's championing these types of pieces of legislation on when, if he runs for governor, I wanna see how that plays out.

- [Rob] Yeah, so many topics this week.

We didn't have enough time, and there's a lot that we left out but thank you for taking part in the show.

Well, thank you for joining us.

Send us your comments@ftwwedu.org.

You can view this and past shows online at wedu.org or on the PBS app (upbeat music) Florida This Week is now available as a podcast.

And from all of us here at WEDU, have a great weekend.

(upbeat, news music) - [Narrator] Florida This Week is a production of WEDU, who is solely responsible for its content.