>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER A PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS RAISE CONCERNS OVER GOVERNOR BAKERY'S PLAN ON REOPENING I'M JOINED BY MAYORS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUES BOXER BOB HEDLUND AND JOE CURTATONE WHO ALSO JUST ANNOUNCED AFTER NEARLY 18 YEARS IN OFFICE HE WON'T BE RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION THIS FALL.

AND LATER DONALD TRUMP'S RETURN TO THE SPOTLIGHT AT CPAC LAST NIGHT FEATURED ALL THE GREATEST HITS, ELECTION LYINGS, POLITICAL VENDETTAS AND PLENT HE OOF QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISOR DAVID GERGEN JOINS ME ON THAT, AND WHETHER BIDEN PUSHING THROUGH A DEMOCRATS-ONLY COVIDxD RELIEF BILL IS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.

AND FINALLY OF WHAT YOU SENT IN.

ANOTHER MAJOR WEAPON IN THE PANDEMIC WAR THIS WEEKEND, PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS ARE WARNING WE STILL HAVE A LONG ROAD AHEAD.

BECAUSE WHILE A THIRD OF THE VACCINE IS BEING SHIPPED OUT AS I SPEAK, THE SINGLE DOSE SHOT FROM JOHNSON & JOHNSON, THE COMPANY HAS FEWER THAJ FOUR MILLION DOSES TO GO AT THE MOMENT WHICH LIKELY WON'T MAKE A HUGE DENT IN THE COMING WEEK.

MASSACHUSETTS GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER SAID THIS MORNING THAT HE EXPECTS THE SAID WILL ADMINISTER THE FIRST J & J SHOTS NEXT WEEK WITH.

SO COVID CASE RATES FOLLOW FALLING IN THE STATE, THE NUMBER OF BUSINESSES THAT GOT TO OPEN THEIR DOOR WIDER TODAY WITH INDOOR PERFORMANCE SPACES AND RECREATIONAL FACILITIES ALLOWED TO OPERATE AT 50% CAPACITY.

AND NO MORE CAPACITY LIMITS AT ALL FOR RESTAURANTS.

ALTHOUGH DISTANCE AND TIME RESTRICTIONS REMAIN.

AND WHILE SOME HAVE HAILED THE MOVE, MANY OTHERS INCLUDING THE HEAD OF THE CDC WHO'S ALSO STILL ON BAKERS ECONOMIC REOPENING ADVISE RAE BOARD BY THE WAY, AREN'T EXACTLY SEEING THE WISDOM OF ROLLBACKS LIKE THIS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> I AM REALLY WORRIED ABOUT REPORTS THAT MORE STATES ARE ROLLING BACK THE EXACT PUBLIC HEALTH MEASURES WE HAVE RECOMMENDED THAT PROTECT PEOPLE FROM COVID-19.

PLEASE HEAR ME CLEARLY.

AT THIS LEVEL OF CASES WITH VARIANTS SPREADING, WE STAND TO LOSE THE HARD-EARNED GROUND WE HAVE GAINED.

>> Braude: STILL THE GOVERNOR DEFENDED HIS MOVE THIS MORNING.

>> WITH RESPECT TO EVERY DECISION WE HAVE MADE ABOUT EITHER RESTRICTING WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO OR LETTING UP A LITTLE BIT ONxD WHAT PEOPLE CAN DO, ALL OF THOSE DECISIONS SINCE THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS PANDEMIC HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT.

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR EVERYBODY TO UNDERSTAND THAT THIS IS A CONSTANT BALANCING ACT.

WE WILL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THE DATA AS WE GO FORWARD.

AND AS WE HAVE IN THE PAST, MAKE ADJUSTMENTS IN OTHER DIRECTIONS IF WE NEED TO BASED ON WHAT HAPPENED.

>> I'M JOINED BY TWO MASSACHUSETTS MAYORS ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THIS DEBATE, SOMERVILLE MAYOR JOSEPH CURTATONE WHO ANNOUNCED TODAY HE WILL NOT SEEK A TENTH TERM IN NOVEMBER IS STICKING WITH THE CITY SCHEDULE TO KEEP RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE FOR AT LEAST ANOTHER COUPLE OF WEEKS, WEYMOUTH MAYOR BOB HEDLUND IS MOVING FORWARD WITH THE STATE'S REOPENING.

MAYOR HEDLUND, MAYOR CURTATONE, GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

>> HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> HELLO, MAYOR.

>> STARTING WITH YOU MAYOR CURTATONE, BY MY COUNT, I DON'T KNOW, 340 SOME CITIES AND TOWNS SEEM TO BE CONTENT WITH WHAT THE GOVERNOR DID IN OUR STATE.

BOSTON, A PIECE OF CAMBRIDGE AND SOMERVILLE ARE NOT.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH WHAT THE GOVERNOR IS PROPOSING?

OR IMPLEMENTING.

>> YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD IN THE BEGINNING.

IT HAS BEEN, YOU KNOW, THE ENTIRE PROCESS.

NOT HEEDING THE CLEAR WARNINGS AND CAUTION OF EXPERTS.

HOW THE GOVERNOR IS REOPENING, WE HAVE THE FOURTH HIGHEST DEATH RATE IN THE COUNTRY, MASSACHUSETTSWIDE.

IF THIS IS THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL, I SEE TWO PROBLEMS, ONE IT GIVES ACTUALLY THE CHANCE TO KEEP TRANSITION DOWN AND THERE ARE NEW VARIANTS BECOMING MORE PREVALENT IT IS A BIG RISK RIGHT NOW, WE PUT PEOPLE'S LIVES AT STAKE.

AND SECONDLY WE STILL DON'T HAVE A VACCINE ROLLOUT PLAN.

GIVING ACCESS TO THE PEOPLE HIT HARDEST BY THIS PANDEMIC, AGAIN THIS IS ANOTHER HEAD SCRATCHER THAT REALLY FLIES IN THE FACE OF THE CAUTIONARY WARNINGS OF EXPERTS.

>> Braude: MAYOR HEDLUND, WHERE IS MAYOR CURTATONE WRONG?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I'M NOT A DOCTOR, JIM, I'M NOT A PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERT.

WE HAVE TO KIND OF BE JACK OF ALL TRADES WHEN ARE YOU THE MAYOR, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OF THE TOWN.

WE RELY ON PEOPLE THAT HAVE SPECIALTIES.

I RELY ON NOT ONLY MY HEALTH DEPARTMENT BUT I ALSO, WE HAVE A PARTNERSHIP WITH-- HOSPITAL, WE ARE IN CONSULTATION WITH PROFESSIONALS THERE, THE HEAD OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE THERE, THE PIPT EXTENDS TO HAVING AN AMBULANCE SERVICE RUN BY THE HOSPITAL HERE IN TOWN, NEW VENDORS.

WE PARTNERED WITH THEM ON A VACCINATION SITE.

AND JUST FROM ALL THE INPUT A GET FROM THE MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS I'M HAPPY THE DECISION THIS MADE AND WE'RE CALLING IT A ROLLBACK BUT IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAS NOW ALLOWED, IT'S REALLY INCREMENTAL.

SOME OF THE PROVISIONS AREN'T EVEN GOING TO RESULT IN ANYTHING.

HAVING A-- 12% CAPACITY REALLY ISN'T GOING TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE-- COME BACK OR ANY MAJOR IMPACT THERE.

>> Braude: BUT MAYOR, BUT MAYOR, RESTAURANTS AT FULL CAPACITY WITH TIME LIMITS AND SIX PER TABLE.

SOME RECREATIONAL FACILITIES THAT WEREN'T OPEN AT ALL NOW GOING TO 50%.

WHEN YOU SAY YOU ARE NOT A PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERTS, WALENSKY, DR. WALENSKY AND DR. FAUCI WERE SAYING THIS WEEKEND THAT EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DOING IS EXACTLY WHAT WE SHOULDN'T BE DOING IN AMERICA.

UNTIL THE RATES GO DOWN EVEN FURTHER.

>> JIM, LET ME RESPOND TO, THAT THREE POINTS, NUMBER ONE, THE TRENDS ARE GOOD, WE BELIEVE.

AND WE'RE COMFORTABLE IN LOOKING AT THE TRENDS.

OUR HIGH I THINK WAS IN DECEMBER, DEALING WITH ABOUT 100 CASES A DAY, WE ARE DOWN TO 19 PER DAY.

WE TRUST OUR NEW PRESIDENT WHEN HE TELLS US THAT THE SUPPLY CHAIN IS IMPROVING ON VACCINATION, FOR THE VACCINE.

BUT IN TERMS OF THE RESTAURANT OPENINGS, THE EXAMPLE YOU USED, I THINK WHAT THE GOVERNOR CAME OUT WITH BEFORE DIDN'T MAKE SENSE WHEN YOU WERE COMPRESSING HOURS AN HAVING PEOPLE DPRES IN A SHORTER TAME FRAME.

I THINK EXTENDING THE RESTAURANT HOURS IS A GOOD THING.

NOT ONLY FOR THE ECONOMY-- .

>> Braude: BUT MAYOR HE IS NOT EXTENDING THE HOURS.

HE IS SAYING YOU STILL CAN ONLY STAY 90 MINUTES.

YOU STILL REQUEST ONLY HAVE SIX AT A TABLE.

LET ME PUT UP A CHART BY THE WAY, THIS IS A COMPARISON FOR "THE NEW YORK TIMES" AND COVID TRACKING PROJECT, OF THE TREND IN CASES NATIONALLY AND IN MASSACHUSETTS.

AND I'M NOT A PUBLIC HEALTH EXPERT EITHER.

BUT THEY LOOK PRETTY SIMILAR TO ME AND AM IS WHERE WALENSKY AND FAUCI ARE SAYING HOLD.

>> I CAN GO BACK TO YOU, IF I CAN FOR A SECOND.

THE FLIP SIDE IS I'M DRIVE DOWNING MASS AVENUE AVENUE ON SATURDAY, EVERY THIRD OR FOURTH STORE FRONT IS VACANT.

PLACES I USED TO SHOP AT, USED TO EAT AT.

DON'T YOU HAVE TO CREATE A BALANCE SINCE THESE NUMBERS ARE GOING DOWN, THAT ALLOW PEOPLE TO WORK AN ALLOW SMALL BUSINESS OWNERS TO STAY AFLOAT?

>> WELL, I'M GLAD YOU USED THE WORD BALANCE, THE GOV LIKED TO USE BALANCING ACTINGS I LIKE TO CALL TAY BLOOD CALCULUS.

THE POINT, I COMMEND THE GOVERNOR FOR BEING RESPONSIVE TO MUNICIPAL LEADERS LIKE MAYOR HEAD DUND -- HEDLUND AND OTHERS TO GIVE DIRECT FINANCIAL SUPPORT, THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE, A COUPLE MONTHS AGO.

$668 MILLION.

YOU CAN'T HAVE A FULL SUSTAINABLE RECOVERY IN THE ECONOMY WITHOUT A HEALTHY SOCIETY.

AND THE APPROACH FROM THE GOVERNOR AND ADMINISTRATION IS AS LONG AS WE HAVE COSTS GO BACK TO CAPACITY, WHICH IS IMPORTANT, WE WANT TO MAINTAIN THE STABILITY OF THAT SYSTEM.

WE ARE OKAY SO WE CAN OPEN UP A LITTLE BECAUSE WE CAN TREAT MORE SICK PEOPLE.

THE PROBLEM WITH THAT BLOOD CALCULUS IS, INEVITABLY, MORE PEOPLE WHICH WE COULD HAVE AVOID READY BECOMING MORE SERIOUSLY ILL AND CONSEQUENTLY MORE PEOPLE DIE, HIGHEST COVID DEATH RATE IN THE NATION.

WHY IN A AREA SO RICH IN RESOURCE, MEDICAL CAPACITY, IT SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

>> Braude: LET ME-- MAYOR CURTATONE, I WANT TO GET MAYOR HEDLUND BACK IN THIS IF I CAN FOR A SECOND.

MOST PEOPLE, I MEAN PEOPLE LIKE MAYOR CURTATONE AREN'T TALKING ABOUT WAITING MONTHS.

I THINK YOU POSTPONED SOME OF THE REOPENINGS A COUPLE OF WEEKS.

WOULD A COUPLE MORE WEEKS MAYOR HEDLUND TO MAKE SURE THAT THIS TRAJECTORY CONTINUES DOWN, NOT MAKE SENSE AND I'M SHORT ON TIME.

>> IT IT MAY, THAT SAY VALID POINT.

WE HAD INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS HERE WITH OUR SCHOOL DEPARTMENT.

WHETHER OR NOT IT MAKES SENSE JUST TO WORRY ABOUT REOPENING NEXT YEAR RATHER THAN JUST FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS AT THE END OF THE SCHOOL YEAR BUT WE'RE COMFORTABLE HERE IN TOWNHALL.

WE'RE GOING BACK TO FULL AND ENDING REMOTE, COMING BACK TO FULL ATTENDANCE IN TOWNHALL ON THE 139 OF THIS MONTH.

SO WE'RE PRETTY CONFIDENT WE CAN DO THAT AND GET BACK TO SOME LEVEL OF NORMALCY.

>> MAYOR CURTATONE, I ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT YVMENT ARE YOU NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION, QUICKLY IF YOU CAN.

>> THERE IS NO POLITICAL OR PERSONAL CALCULUS.

FOR ME WHERE I AM AT RIGHT NOW, I WILL BE-- THROUGH MY COMMUNITY WITH COVID, RECAPTURE THE WINS, PUTTING NEWS A POSITIVE DIRECTION, MAKE SURE IT WORKS FOR EVERYBODY.

I'M 18 YEARS ON THIS JOB.

I'M NOT TIRED OF THE JOB.

I COULD DO THIS ANOTHER 20 YEARS.

I DON'T THINK I SHOULD, I WILL GIVE EVERYTHING I HAVE, AND KEEP US HEALTHY, SAFE AND ALIVE.

>> Braude: I READ IN THE GLOBE YOU HAVE NO SPECIFIC PLANS.

YOU HAVE NO SPECIFIC JOB.

SO COME NOVEMBER WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO, WATCH JEOPARDY, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH YOURSELF.

>> I GUESS, HAVE I TO FIGURE OUT WHAT I WANT TO DO WHEN I GROW UP.

HAVE I NO IDEA.

BUT LISTEN, I COULD DO THIS ANOTHER 20 YEARS.

I DON'T THINK I SHOULD.

I HAVE BEEN BLESSED TO DO ONE OF THE MOST MEANINGFUL, AND I'M SURE MAYOR HEDLUND FEELS THAT TO BENESS IT IS THE MOST MEANINGFUL WORK I WILL EVER DO.

I WILL HAVE TIME TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

>> Braude: WE WISH YOU LUCK, BEFORE WE GO MAYOR HEDLUND WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE PERFORMANCE OVER 18 YEARS OF THE MAYOR OF SOMERVILLE.

>> WELL, I MET HIM WHEN HE FIRST WENT IN AND THAT WAS A QUICK 18 YEARS, CAN I REMEMBER BEING OVER THERE HIS FIRST YEAR ON THE JOB.

I WANT TO BE SURE AT THE NEXT MAYOR'S SERKS MEETING THAT WE ARE BOTH TOGETHER AT BEFORE HE LEAVES, I WILL BUY HIM A NICE SOLD SAM ADAMS TO CELEBRATE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

AND I WILL DRINK WHAT WITH YOU, MAYOR.

I WOULD BE HONORED.

>> I WOULD APPRECIATE IT.

>> Braude: WELL, I WILL RAISE A GLASS TORYOU TO, MAYOR CURTATONE.

GOOD LUCK IN THE FUTURE, SURE WE WILL SEE OF BEFORE YOU LEAVE, MAYOR HEDLUND GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU, APPRECIATE IT.

>> Braude: THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS STILL THE PARTY OF TRUMP, AT LEAST THAT WAS THE MESSAGE AT CPAC OVER THE WEEKEND-- MASSIVE CHROME-PAINTED STATUE AND ALL.

PLUS, A NEARLY 90-MINUTE SPEECH FROM THE MAN HIMSELF, WHERE IT SEEMED LIKE HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE UP FOR LOST TIME IN PACKING IN AS MANY ELECTION LIES AS POSSIBLE: >> THIS ELECTION WAS RIGGED.

ILLEGAL ALIENS AND DEAD PEOPLE ARE VOTING.

ACTUALLY, AS YOU KNOW, THEY JUST LOST THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> Braude: NOPE, THEY DIDN'T.

BUT AS HE WENT ON, FOR SOME REASON, THIS MOMENT STAYED WITH ME.

>> TRUMPISM.

IT MEANS STRONG BORDERS.

IT MEANS NO RIOTS IN THE STREETS.

IT MEANS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Braude: NO RIOTS, LAW ENFORCEMENT, EXCEPT FOR JANUARY 6?

AND WHILE TRUMP DID PROMISE TO UNITE THE PARTY, HE ALSO OFFERED UP A HIT LIST OF EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN WHO SUPPORTED HIS IMPEACHMENT AND CONVICTION.

>> THE DEMOCRATS DON'T HAVE GRANDSTANDERS LIKE MITT ROMNEY; LITTLE BEN SASSE; RICHARD BURR; BILL CASSIDY; SUSAN COLLINS; LISA MURKOWSKI; PAT TOOMEY; ADAM KINZINGER; DAN NEWHOUSE; ANTHONY GONZALEZ; LIZ CHENEY.

GET RID OF THEM ALL.

>> Braude: I'M JOINED BY DAVID GERGEN, WHO SERVED AS AN ADVISOR TO PRESIDENTS FROM BOTH PARTIES, NIXON, FORD, REAGAN AND CLINTON, AND IS NOW WITH THE HARVARD KENNEDY SCHOOL.

DAVID T IS GREAT TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, THANK YOU.

>> SO IN AN AK OF JOURNALISTIC RESPONSIBILITY BUT PERSONAL MASS KISM, I WATCH FOUR OR FIVE YEARS OF CPAC YESTERDAY.

TO ME IT WAS SAME AS IT EVER WAS, WHAT WAS YOUR TAKE AWAY, DAVID?

>> WELL, I THINK SOME THINGS HAVE CHANGEDMENT ECK VEESLY DONALD TRUMP STILL HAS THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN HIS GRIP, HIS CULT REMAINS, YOU KNOW, VERY SUPPORTIVE OF HIM.

>> I THINK ONLY FOX ACTUALLY CARRIED HIM LIVE.

CNN DID NOT.

MSNBC DID NOT.

AND IN THE PRINT PAPERS TODAY, IF YOU LOOK AT, IS HE ON THE FRONT PAGE OF THE "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" BUT BACK ON PAGE 14 ON "THE NEW YORK TIMES."

AND HE'S ON THE INSIDE OF THE "BOSTON GLOBE."

AND THE GLOBE THE PIECE ABOUT TRUMP IS LINKED TO A PIECE ABOUT KIZZINGER WHO IS THE REPRESENTATIVE WHO HAS BEEN TAKING HIM ON SO BRAVELY.

SO I THINK THAT HIS GRIP ON THE NATIONAL IMAGINATION IS SLIPPING.

I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE HARDER FOR HIM BECAUSE, ESPECIALLY IF HE TURNS OUT IN TERMS OF HIS MESSAGE, IT WAS A LOT OF WHAT WE HEARD BEFORE.

VERY COMPETITIVE.

HE CAN'T BE JUST A ONE TRICK PONY AND EXPECT THE PRESS TO COME COVER HIM AND EXPECT THE COUNTRY TO GO WITH HIM.

I THINK HE HAS TO HAVE MORE TO SAY.

AND I THINK RIGHT NOW HE DOESN'T.

HE'S JUST SORT OF WINGING WITH.

WITH OLDIES BUT GOODIES N HIS CASE THE OLDIES BUT BADIES.

>> DAVID, EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT HIS GRIP ON THE NATION, THE KEY FOR HIM IS ALWAYS BEEN HIS GRIP ON THE LOYALISTS, THEY WERE WATCHING FOX NEWS, THEY WEREN'T TURNING TO MSNBC OR THE NEW YORK TIMES TO READ ABOUT WHAT HE HAD TO SAY.

AND WHILE A LOT OF HIS PEOPLE WHO ARE HOPEFUL, WHO ARE NOT CRAZY ABOUT TRUMP, LET ME PUT UP A POLL THAT SHOWS WHILE 68% OF THE ATTENDEES SAID THEY WANTED HIM TO RUN, ONLY 55% SAID THAT THEY WOULD SELECT HIM IF HE RAN IN 2024.

BUT THE GUY WHO CAME IN SECOND, WELL OVER EVERYBODY ELSE, RON DESANTIS IS SORT OF LIKE A TRUMP KNOCKOFF, CON TEMP SHUS-- CON TEMP SHUS OF THE PRESS, OF COVID RESTRICTIONS, BULLYISH, SO IT SEEMS TO ME AT LEAST IN HIS CORE CONSTITUENCY, IS HE PRETTY SOLID, NO?

>> I THINK TRUMP IS RECEIVING A LITTLE BIT OF THAT REARVIEW MIRROR.

I THINK TRUMPISM IS ALIVE AND WELL IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND WHOEVER CAN CLAIM THAT MANTLE I THINK HAS GOT A VERY GOOD CHANCE TO BE THE NOMINEE OF THE PARTY IN THIS NEXT TIME OUT.

BUT HAVE I TO SAY, ON THE 68% WHO SAID THEY WOULD LIKE HIM TO RUN AGAIN, THAT WAS TREATED ALMOST UNIVERSITILY AS LESS THAN HE HAD HOPED.

THAT IT WAS A DISAPPOINTMENT TO ONLY HAVE 68%.

AND SO YOU KNOW, I THINK THESE THINGS ARE OPEN TO MULTIPLE INTERPRETATIONS SOMETIME.

BUT I HAVE TO TILL, I DO THINK THAT-- FROM THE NATIONAL STAGE FOR TWO MONTHS, THAT HAD TO COME OUT AND GIVE A 90 MINUTE ADDRESS THAT WENT NOWHERE, THAT IT ONLY TALKED ABOUT THE PAST AND DIDN'T TALK ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE-- I DON'T THINK IT IS A VERY BREATHE-TAKING REA SHEERNS IT SEEMS TO ME IT SORT OF IS A VERY MIXED BAG AND THAT HE MAY BE MORE VULNERABLE THAN HE LOOKS ESPECIALLY WHEN THE LAWYERS GET THROUGH WITH IMHAD, IF HE GETS KNOCKED AROUND BY THESE INVESTIGATIONS AND THEIR LEAKS AND ONE THING AND ANOTHER, IT IS NOT AS OBVIOUS AS I THINK IT WAS BEFORE THAT HE REPRESENTS THE LONG-TERM FUTURE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

IF HE IS THE LONG-TERM FUTURE, I THINK HE'S GOING TO TAKE THE PARTY DOWN THAT ROUTE.

>> SO WHEN PEOPLE LIKE CRUZ, FOLLY AND THE OTHERS WERE PRAISING HIM TO THE SKY, THAN BASED ON THE SCHOOL OF GERGEN THEY WERE PRAISING HIM TO THE SKIES TO KEEP LOCKED IN.

>> YES.

>> Braude: THE TRUMP CONSTITUENCY SO THAT WHEN HE DOESN'T RUN WHICH IS WHERE YOU SEEM TO BE GOING, THEY PICK UP THAT PIECE OF THE ELECTORATE S THAT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON.

WHO IS THE NEXT PERSON IN LINE.

AND WHO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S GOING TO BE THIS STRUGGLE.

AND IT WAS SMART OF-- I OBJECTED TO A LOT OF WHAT HEAD TRUS HAS SAID AND DONE HERE RECENTLY BUT I THOUGHT HE WAS SMART TO SORT OF SAY BASICALLY, TO GET INTO THAT LANE.

YOU KNOW, LET TRUMP HAVE THE INSIDE LANE, BUT BE ONE LANE OUT AND YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND WHEN WE LOOK AT THESE NUMBER FORCE DESANTIS, WHICH ARE LIKE-- HE WAS THE ONLY SORT OF DOUBLE DIGIT OPPONENT OF TRUMP, IT IS WORTH REMEMBERING THAT THAT CPAC GATHERING WAS IN FLORIDA.

THAT IS HIS HOME STATE.

>> Braude: TRUE.

>> SO I IMAGINE THE CROWD IS HOME PEOPLE.

>> Braude: SO DAVID, I PLAYED THE TRUMP'S LISTING OF THE NAMES OF ALL THOSE REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORTED IMPEACHMENT AND CONVICTION.

I WOULD ARGUE HE PUTS THEM IN ANSWER GREATER PERSONAL DANGER AND THEIR FAMILIES IN GREATER DANGER, NOT THAT HE GIVES A DAMN ABOUT IT THAN THEY WERE BEFORE.

BUT IF THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE PULLED TOGETHER, THE SASSES, THE KINZINGER, THE ROMNEYS, ON AND ON AND SAID CAN YOU GIVE US A FEW MINUTES OF YOUR TIME WHAT IS YOUR ADVICE?

YOUR ADVICE SOUNDS LIKE IT WOULD BE KEEP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND WAIT HIM OUT.

IS THAT WHERE YOU ARE?

>> OH, YEAH.

I THINK TO GET SOME SEPARATION, TO NOT BECOME THE-- TO THE BASE, THAT WOULD BE FOOL HARDY.

THE QUESTION IS CAN YOU TAKE TRUMPISM AND LIGHTEN IT UP OR MAKE IT MORE ACCEPTABLE TO THE MIDDLE OF THE COUNTRY, AND BE MORE COMPETITIVE.

I THINK IF THE ELECTION WERE HELD AGAIN TODAY, JOE BIDEN WOULD BEAT TRUMP BY MORE THAN HE DID LAST TIME.

I WOULD RECKON HE WOULD BE UP IN DOUBLE DIGITS EASILY.

LOOK AT THE NATIONAL POLLS.

I THINK THE PERSON WHO PLAYED THIS THE BEST, JIM S REALLY THE PRESIDENT.

IT DOES SEEM TO ME THAT BY STAYING ABOVE THE FRAY, NOT GETTING DOWN IN THE MUD WITH TRUMP, HE'S NOT-- HE DOESN'T GET INTO THE TRUMP STORIES.

GIVE TRUMP A LANE BY HIMSELF.

STAY OUT OF IT AND BE THE GUY WHO IS TRYING TO DELIVER AND BE THE CANDIDATE OF THE FUTURE.

LET TRUMP BE THE CANDIDATE OF THE PAST.

I THINK THAT'S BEEN A PRETTY SMART STRATEGY SO FAR.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF BIDEN.

HERE HE IS ON SATURDAY TALKING ABOUT THE COVID RELIEF BILL.

>> WE HAVE NO TIME TO WASTE.

IF WE ACT NOW, DECISIVELY, QUICKLY AND COLDLY, WE CAN FINALLY GET AHEAD OF THIS VIRUS.

WE CAN FINALLY GET OUR ECONOMY MOVING AGAIN.

AND THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY HAVE SUFFERED FAR TOO MUCH FOR TOO LONG.

>> Braude: WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS GO IT ALONE STRATEGY?

I MEAN HE WOULD ARGUE THE DEMOCRAT WAS ARGUE WE HAVE NO CHOICE.

THE REPUBLICANS WERE NOT COMING.

REGARDLESS, UNLESS WE WERE WILLING TO CUT THE PACKAGE BY TWO THIRDS, WHAT IS THE IMPLICATION IN TERMS OF THIS COUNTRY AND ITS DEMOCRACY OF A GO IT ALONE RELIEF, $2 TRILLION RELIEF PACKAGE.

>> WELL, I THINK FOR THE OPENING PLAY HERE, WORKING OUR WAY THROUGH THIS EPISODE, HE HAD NO CHOICE AND HE HAD DONE THE RIGHT THING BY CHOOSING TO GO IT ALONE.

AND I THINK THE REPUBLICANS KNOW THAT IF THEY BLOCK THIS BILL THEY BLOCK THE HELP FOR SO MANY PEOPLE AND THE ECONOMY THEN TAKES A SWOOP DOWNWARD AND WE SEE SPIKES AGAIN IN COVID, THEY'RE GOING TO BE BLAMED FOR THAT.

I THINK THEY WANT TO STAY AWAY FROM IT.

IT'S ALSO TRUE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS OUT THERE WHO SUPPORT THIS COVID BILL, THEY'RE NOT BEING ACTIVISTS ABOUT IT, THEY SPRORT IT.

AND IT'S GOT, WHAT IS THE SUPPORT LEVEL IN THE COUNTRY NOW, IT'S LIKE 75% OF THE COUNTRY FAVORS THIS, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT IN A LONG TIME.

HE DOESN'T HAVE THE BIPARTISAN VOTES BUT I THINK HE HAS THE BIPARTISAN VOICES OF THE COUNTRY, AND SO I THINK HE'S WISE TO GO AHEAD, I THINK IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO TO START WITH.

TO PROVIDE SOME RELIEF.

BUT I ALSO THINK IT'S A POLITICALLY RIGHT THING TO DO.

HAVING SAID THAT, I DON'T THINK YOU WANT TO GET INTO A HABIT.

IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BE A BIPARTISAN PRESIDENT, THERE ARE OTHER WAYS YOU CAN BEGIN TO ESTABLISH SOME RELATIONSHIPS, FOR EXAMPLE LEE "HAMILTON," HE HAD AN AGREEMENT WITH THE PRESIDENT THAT HE COULD BRING IN THE LEADERSHIP ON THE NATIONAL SECURITY FRONT AND AT LEAST ONCE A MONTH AND MAYBE TWICE A MONTH.

JUST TO TALK.

AND THAT WAS IMPORTANT, ADAM KINSINGER, WHO IS ONE OF THE TEN, HIS DIS TRICK IS ED DIRKSON'S OLD DISTRICT, HE WAS THE REPUBLICAN LEADER WHEN LYNDON JOHNSON WAS PRESIDENT, JOHNSON WOULD CALL DIRKSON EVERY SINGLE DAY, WORKING SESSION, TO SEE HOW THINGS WERE GOING, HOW IS IT GOING, THAT INCREASED THE SENSE OF TRUST AND WE'RE PARTNERS, WE'RE IN THIS TOGETHER.

I THINK BIDEN IS WELL SUITED TO THAT, EVEN THOUGH HE DOESN'T HAVE THE VOTES, SO IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE TRICKY.

BUT I DO THINK HE'S GOT, THERE IS A SINCERITY ABOUT HIM, A NICE GUY QUALITY THAT I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE FIND APPEALING AFTER FOUR YEARS OF WHAT WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH.

>> Braude: SO DAVID GERGEN, WE ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT T SOUNDS LIKE WE LIKE YOU TOOK APP OPTIMISM PILL BEFORE THE SHOW THAT MADE MY NIGHT, ACTUALLY.

SO I AM WORRIED ABOUT THE IMMEDIATE FUTURE OF SMALL D DEMOCRACY ARE YOU NOT, APPARENTLY, ARE YOU?

>> I AM?

A.

YES, IS LET'S PIT IT THIS WAY, I THIS A LONG-TERM OPTIMISM, IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT IS COMING, THE GENERATION THAT IS COMING UP NOW, THE YOUNGER PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE INNER STRENGTH OF 24 COUNTRY, THE RELITTLE SENSE, OUR HISTORY OF COMING BACK WHEN WE HAVE BEEN UNDER EXCRUCIATING EXISTENTIAL THREAT, THREE OR FOUR TIMES.

LIKE FOUR TIMES, THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN UNDER EXISTENTIAL THREATS WHEN WE WERE FIGHTING, THE CIVIL WAR, THE GREAT DEPRESSION AND WORLD WAR TWO.

IN EVERY CASE WE TOOK SOME REAL HITS BUT WHEN WE PULLED OURSELVES TOGETHER, WE CAME OUT OF IT.

I THINK WHAT WE HAVE SEEN ON THE VACCINE FRONT IS THAT NOBODY COULD HAVE DONE WHAT WE HAVE DONE.

AND IN THE BEGINNING WE FUMBLED.

WE STUMBLED ON THE VACCINE FRONT.

BUT IN THE END UNITED STATES REALLY CAME THROUGH.

AND THE UNITED STATES RESEARCHERS REALLY CAME THROUGH, PULLED THE WORLD TO SAFETY.

I THINK THERE ARE SOME GOOD THINGS GOING ON.

AND WE, IF WE CAN GET BACK INTO OUR GROOVE OF TRYING TO ACT AS ONE PEOPLE INSTEAD OF ALL SPLIT UP AND ANGRY AND-- THERE IS SO MUCH HATRED, DO I THINK WE'VE GOT A REAL CHANCE TO PULL AMERICA BACK.

AND SO I WOULD LIKE TO MAINTAIN THAT HOPEFUL FRONT THAT THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT YOU AND I BOTH HAVE BEEN SEVERELY DISAPPOINTED BY THE LAST FOUR YEARS AND I THINK WE LOOKED INTO THE ABYSS MORE THAN ONCE DURING THE TRUMP YEARS.

>> WELL, I JUST HOPE A LITTLE BIT OF YOU, DAVID GERGEN RUBS OFF ON ME, GOOD TO SEE YOU AS ALWAYS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, A CANINE THEMED EDITION OF WHAT YOU SENT IN IN THESE PANDEMIC TIME, KATHERINE TOOK THIS SWEET PICTURE OF HER TWO LAZY DOGS, ANN SENT THIS PICTURE OF HER PUP QUOTE PONDERING THE FUTURE.

OBVIOUSLY A LOT TO PONDER, THANK YOU BOTH FOR SHARING, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEND IN, PLEASE DO SO WITH THE A RED-- ADDRESSES ON YOUR SCREEN, THAT IS IF TOR FONT, I STAY SAFE AND STAY TUNED FOR INFORMATION ON HOW YOU CAN SOFORT THIS SHOW AND OTHERS ON GBH.

PLUS A SPECIAL THANK YOU GIFT WE'RE OFFERING NOW FOR YOUR CONTRIBUTION.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH