>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": WHILE JOE BIDEN'S FIRST STATE OF THE UNION WILL FOCUS HEAVILY ON PUTIN'S WAR ON UKRAINE, AS IT SHOULD,Ñi OTHERS ARE HOPING TO SHINE A LIGHT ON SOME BIG ISSUES HERE AT HOME, TOO.

AMONG THEM, CONGRESSWOMAN AYANNA PRESSLEY, WHO'S INVITED A WORKING MOM FROM HYDE PARK TO BE HER VIRTUAL GUEST TO HIGHLIGHT THE NEED FOR ACCESSIBLE AND AFFORDABLE CHILD CARE.

THAT WOULD BE CHRISTINA MORRIS, WHO JOINS ME, TOO, ALONG WITH LINDSAY McCLUSKEY FROM THE NON-PROFIT "CARE THAT WORKS."

THEN, LATER, HEAD OF SECURITY FOR THE ISABELLA STEWART GARDNER MUSEUM, ANTHONY AMORE, WHO ONCE TOLD ME HE KNOWS WHO PULLED OFF THE INFAMOUS HEIST, ON THE LATEST POSSIBLE BREAKTHROUGH MORE THAN 30 YEARS LATER.

AND, FINALLY, THE FILMMAKER AND ONE OF THE COURAGEOUS SOULS IN A NEW GBH DOCUMENTARY ON THE EXTREME SPORT OF -- ARE YOU READY?

-- WINTER SURFING.

♪♪ >> Braude: WHEN JOE BIDEN DELIVERS HIS FIRST STATE OF THE UNION LATER TONIGHT, RUSSIA AND UKRAINE WILL TAKE THE CENTER STAGE AS PUTIN'S FORCES BEAR DOWN ON KYIV AND TARGET CIVILIAN AREAS IN THEIR LATEST ATTACKS.

IT'S A VERY DIFFERENT SPEECH THAN THE ONE BIDEN WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNING TO GIVE, WHICH WAS REPORTEDLY FOCUSED LARGELY ON HIS DOMESTIC AGENDA AND HIS FAR-REACHING BUILD BACK BETTER BILL, WHICH INCLUDES PROPOSALS LIKE FREE PRE-SCHOOL, CHILD CARE SUBSIDIES, PAID FAMILY LEAVE, AND AN EXTENSION OF THE CHILD TAX CREDIT EXPANSION, ALL OF WHICH HAVE BEEN STALLED THANKS TO REPUBLICANS AND A COUPLE OF DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE, AND ALL OF WHICH CONGRESSWOMAN AYANNA PRESSLEY IS HOPING TO GET BACK INTO THE SPOTLIGHT.

TO THAT END, SHE'S INVITED, AS A VIRTUAL GUEST TO TONIGHT'S SPEECH, CHRISTINA MORRIS, A MOTHER OF FOUR AND A UNION CARPENTER FROM HYDE PARK, WHO'S HERE AHEAD OF THE EVENT.

WE'RE ALSO JOINED BY LINDSAY McCLUSKEY, A SENIOR STRATEGIST FOR "CARE THAT WORKS," A COALITION OF COMMUNITY GROUPS THAT ORGANIZE FOR GREATER ACCESS TO CHILD CARE.

>> Braude: IT'S GOOD TO MEET YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: CHRISTINA, 15 YEARS A CARPENTER, ODD HOURS -- I KNOW CONSTRUCTION IS ODD HOURS -- FOUR KIDS, THROUGH THE YEARS, HOW HAVE YOU FINED YOU FOUND AC ACCESSIBLE AFFORDABLE CHILD CARE.

>> I HAVE NOT, SO I HAVE HAD TO RELY ON MY BOYFRIEND'S MATERNAL GRANDMOTHER AND UNDER AUNT.

I START AT 6, AND CHILD CARE DOES NOT PROVIDE THOSE HOURS.

MY OLDEST IS 11, SO FOR THE PAST 11 YEARS, THAT'S WHAT WE'VE HAD TO DO.

>> Braude: CHRISTINA, OBVIOUSLY YOU WERE CHOSEN BECAUSE YOU WERE A BENEFICIARY OF THIS $300 A MONTH CHILD CARE, THAT IS DISAPPEARING, ASSUMING THAT THE BUILD BACK BETTER IS DISAPPEARING.

AND HOW DID THAT CHANGEFOR CHANGE FOR YOU?

>> IT RELIEVED A LOT OF STRESS REGARDING GROCERIES, AND IT CAME IN HANDY DURING THE SCHOOL YEAR, BUYING CLOTHES AND SCHOOL SUPPLIES.

AND ALSO Ii CAME IN HANDY AROUND CHRISTMASTIME.

AND ALSO IF I HAD ANY EMERGENCIES, QUICK THINGS I COULD FIX AT THAT MOMENT.

IT WAS PRETTY BENEFICIAL.

JUST A LITTLE STRESS RELIEVER.

>> Braude: IT WAS MORE THAN A LITTLE.

IT WAS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT MONEY.

CHRISTINA, WHAT IS CARE THAT WORKS?

>> CARE THAT WORKS IS A COALITION OF UNIONS AND COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE COME TOGETHER TO CONFRONT THE CHILD CARE CRISIS.

WE WERE WORKING TOGETHER BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

OUR WORK IS EVEN MORE RELEVANT NOW.

ONE OF THE PROJECTS THAT WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON IS LAUNCHING A PILOT PROGRAM THAT IS INTENDED TO MAKE CHILD CARE MORE ACCESSIBLE DURING THE EARLY MORNING HOURS, SO WOMEN LIKE CHRISTINA AND SO MANY OTHER WOMEN AND FAMILIES HAVE ACCESS TO CHILD CARE WHEN THEY NEED IT.

WE KNOW THAT SO MANY WORKING FAMILIES DON'T JUST WORK FROM 9 TO 5, AND THAT'S TYPICALLY WHEN MOST CHILD CARE IS AVAILABLE.

>> Braude: I THINK WE KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE CHILD CARE IS IN MASSACHUSETTS -- I THINK WE HAVE THE SECOND HIGHEST COSTS IN THE NATION.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE PILOT PROGRAM?

>> THE PILOT PROGRAM IS UP AND RUNNING FOR FAMILIES WHO MIGHT BE INTERESTED, IF YOU WORK NON-TRADITIONAL HOURS, OR IF YOU'RE INTERESTED IN A CAREER IN CONSTRUCTION BUT CHILD CARE HAS BEEN HOLDING YOU BACK.

YOU SHOULD VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT care.works.org.

NEU WE KNOWWE KNOW THERE ARE BARRIERS, PARTICULARLY FOR MOMS, BUT WE'RE EXCITED TO ELIMINATE ONE OF THOSE BARRIERS, WHICH WE KNOW IS CHILD CARE.

WE AREN'T ABLE TO SOLVE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS AT ONCE, BUT HOPEFULLY IF BUILD BACK BETTER DOES PASS, THERE WILL BE SOME SOLUTIONS ABOUT THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS.

>> Braude: CHRISTINA, I THINK YOUR KIDS ARE THREE TO SEVEN YEARS OLD, AND YOU HAVE AN ODD JOB, AND A JOB YOU HAVE LOVED FOR A LONG TIME, AND YOU HAD TO TAKE AN INVOLUNTARY TIME OFF BECAUSE YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH REMOTE LEARNING FOR YOUR KIDS.

HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH THAT?

>> ONE DAY AT A TIME.

YES, I HAD TO TAKE A LAYOFF IN SEPTEMBER OF 2020 FOR THE REMOTE LEARNING.

THAT WAS PRETTY STRESSFUL, JUST TO LEARN THE EDUCATIONAL PLATFORMS ALONG WITH MY CHILDREN LEARNING ALL OF THOSE PLATFORMS, AND AT THE SAME TIME TRYING TO KEEP THE TWO LITTLE ONES BUSY AND AWAY FROM THE TWO OLDER ONES.

IT WAS PRETTY STRESSFUL.

>> Braude: I CAN IMAGINE.

TO GET BACK TO WHAT I MENTIONED BEFORE, CHRISTINA, YOU MENTIONED WHAT YOU WERE ABLE TO DO WITH THE CHILD TAX CREDIT, AND FOR THOSE WHO AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION, IT IS ABOUT TO DISAPPEAR IF THE SENATE DOESN'T ACT, AND WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THE LOSS IF IT HAPPENS IN YOUR FAMILY?

>> WELL, I MOST LIKELY WILL HAVE TO BE A LITTLE MORE MINDFUL ON BUDGETING, AND MAYBE HAVING TO CHOOSE ONE THING OVER THE OTHER AS FAR AS, LIKE, MAYBE THE CHILDREN'S EXTRACURRICULAR EXTRA EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES, AND KEEP IN MIND WHEN I GO GROCERY SHOPPING.

IT IS THINGS I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO WITHOUT IT.

>> Braude: LINDSAY, BACK TO WHAT YOU'RE DOING, I THINK THE PILOT PROGRAM IS GREAT, BUT I ASSUME YOU WOULD AGREE THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO TAKE SERIOUSLY.

PILOT PROGRAMS AND EXTENDED PILOT PROGRAMS ARE NEVER GOING TO FILL THE HOLE.

I ASSUME YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WHAT WE NEED A UNIVERSAL CHILD CARE, AND A ROBUST SYSTEM OF UNIVERSAL CHILD CARE THAT NOT ONLY FUNDS OUR CURRENT SYSTEM BUT ACTUALLY GOES BEYOND WHAT OUR CURRENT SYSTEM DOES AND MEETS THE REAL NEEDS OF FAMILIES LIKE CHRISTINA'S AND SO MANY WHO NEED NOT ONLY WHAT IS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE, BUT WE NEED EVEN MORE.

WE NEED MORE HOURS COVERED, AND MORE RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO FAMILIES TO OFFSET THE COST OF CHILD CARE.

AND WE NEED ENOUGH MONEY IN THAT SYSTEM TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILD CARE PROVIDERS MAKE A SUSTAINABLE WAGE.

>> Braude: AS LIZ ELIZABETH WARREN CALLED IT FAMILY INFRASTRUCTURE, WHEN PEOPLE THINK ABOUT TRADITIONAL INFRASTRUCTURE, BRIDGES AND ROADS.

I KNOW THAT MAYOR WU HAS OPENED THIS OFFICE OF EARLY CHILDHOOD.

IS THAT PROMISING OR IS THAT A WAYS OFF?

>> I THINK IT IS GREAT.

I THINK IT IS GREAT.

AND I THINK THAT CITIES AND STATE LEADERS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY SHOULD BE DOING WHAT THEY CAN, AND THERE IS A LOT THAT THEY CAN DO.

BUT REALLY WHAT WE NEED IS FOR CONGRESS TO ACT AND TO PUT INTO PLACE A UNIVERSAL CHILD CARE SYSTEM THAT MEETS ALL OF THE NEEDS OF FAMILIES AND PROVIDERS.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, WE ARE NOT GOING TO GO INTO IT TONIGHT, BUT IN THE PAST WE SAID IT WOULD CAP THE AMOUNT OF YOUR INCOME, ASSUMING THIS BUILD BACK BETTER WOULD HAPPEN.

CHRISTINA, ON MY RADIO SHOW WITH MARGORIE EGAN, WE SAID NOW THAT HALF THE FAMILIES BENEFITED FROM THIS CHILD CARE CREDIT, THERE IS NO WAY CONGRESS IS GOING TO TAKE IT AWAY.

WE JUST DON'T DO THAT.

WE DON'T GIVE SOMETHING AND THEN TAKE IT AWAY.

WERE YOU UNDER THAT SAME ASSUMPTION WHEN IT STARTED, IT WAS HERE TO STAY FOR YOU AND YOUR KIDS?

>> NO.

I FIGURED IT WAS TEMPORARY, OR WHATEVER THE AMOUNT WAS THAT YOU GET BACK DURING THE TAXES, I FIGURED THAT IS WHAT IT WAS GOING TO BE.

I FELT LIKE IT WAS A TEMPORARY RELIEF.

I DID NOT THINK IT WAS GOING TO BE PERMANENT.

>> Braude: WELL, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN PERMANENT.

AND IF CONGRESSWOMAN PRESLEY HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT, IT WILL BE PERMANENT.

CHRISTINA, YOU'RE GOING TO THE STATE OF THE UNION TONIGHT VIRTUALLY.

ARE YOU EXCITED?

>> YES, VERY EXCITED.

>> Braude: ARE YOU REALLY?

I CAN'T TELL IF YOU ARE OR NOT.

>> I'M VERY EXCITED.

I'M GLAD TO SHARE MY STORY THAT SO MANY OTHER FAMILIES HAVE.Ñi I'M GLAD IT IS GETTING TO THIS LEVEL AND EVERYBODY CAN HEAR IT, AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BECAUSE I FEEL MORE WOMEN ARE TRYING TO GET INTO THE CONSTRUCTION, THE TRADES, AND THIS LACK OF OR THE AFFORDABILITY OF CHILD CARE, AND ALSO THE EARLY HOURS, IS PROBABLY THE NUMBER ONE REASON WHY THEY WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO DO IT.

SO I'M GLAD THAT THIS IS HAPPENING AND WE'RE BEING HEARD.

>> Braude: YOU'RE A GREAT ADVOCATE FOR ALL OF THOSE FAMILIES AND MOTHERS.

CHRISTOPHER NA,CHRISTINA, HAVE FUN TONIGHT -- I DON'T KNOW IF FUN IS THE RIGHT WORD.

AND THANK YOU, LINDSAY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: IN THE 32 YEARS SINCE THE ISABELLA STEWART GARDNER MUSEUM WAS ROBBED OF 13 WORKS OF ART, VALUED AT MORE THAN HALF A BILLION DOLLARS, THERE HAVE BEEN MANY THEORIES ABOUT WHO MAY BEçó RESPONSIBLE, BUT THESE DAYS INVESTIGATORS ARE FOCUSING ON ONE LEAD IN PARTICULAR.

AS BOSTON-25 NEWS FIRST REPORTED, OFFICIALS BELIEVE THERE MAY BE A LINK TO THE UNSOLVED 1991 MURDER OF JAMES "JIMMY" MARKS, A CAREER CRIMINAL AND CONVICTED BANK ROBBER, WHO WAS KILLED IN A MOB-STYLE HIT OUTSIDE OF HIS LYNN APARTMENT LESS THAN A YEAR AFTER THE GARDNER HEIST.

ANTHONY, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

MOST PEOPLE THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS CERTAIN IN LIFE, DEATH AND TAXES, AND I KNOW THERE ARE THREE, DEATH, TAXES, AND YET ANOTHER PERSON WHO MAY BE BEHIND THIS.

JAMES MARKS WAS MURDERED WHILE GOING INTO HIS HOUT IN 1991.

FILL IN THE BLANKS, IF YOU CAN.

>> HE WAS MURDERED IN FEBRUARY OF 199 1, SO IT WAS A YEAR AFTER THE GARDNER THEFT TOOK PLACE.

HIS NAME HAD COME TO US BACK AROUND 2010 FROM A TIPSTER WHO SAID THAT MR. MARKS HAD TOLD THAT PERSON THAT HE HAD ACCESS TO THE GARDNER ART.

THAT IS NOT AN EXACT QUOTE, BUT HE SORT OF GAVE THAT MESSAGE TO THIS PERSON.

SOME TIME LATER I WAS ABLE TO FIND OUT THAT MR. MARKS WAS A PERSON WHO HAD BEEN KILLED BY A PERSON OF INTEREST IN THE GARDNER DEATH, BY THE NAMEÑi OF ROBERT GARENTI.

I SPOKE TO HIS WIDOW, AND WE CONFIRMED THIS INFORMATION, AND WORKED WITH THE STATE POLICE AND THE LYNN POLICE, AND THE FACT THAT MARKS HAD BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE GARDNER PIECES AND ALSO HAD BEEN KILLED BY A PERSON WHO WAS A PERSON OF INTEREST RAISED OBVIOUS RED FLAGS FOR US.

AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, WE LEARNED THAT NOT LONG AFTER THE THEFT, GARENTI AND ANOTHER PERSON OF INTEREST, NAMED ROBERT, WERE IN THE AREA AT THE TIME OF THE ROBBERY.

>> Braude: YOU'RE HOPING THAT NOW THAT IT IS BACK IN THE NEWS, AND YOU'VE KNOWN ABOUT THIS FOR QUITE A WHILE -- NOW THAT IT IS IN THE NEWS, IT MAY PROMPT OTHER PEOPLE TO COME FORWARD WITH SOMETHING.

THE THING I DON'T GET -- I SHOULDN'T SAY I DON'T GET.

ROUGHLY A DOZEN YEARS AGO, THIS GUY, MARKS, WAS BRAGGING HOW HE HAD SOME OF THE PAINTINGS IN HIS ON APARTMENT ON THE THIRD FLOOR IN LYNN AND IT WAS SEARCHED AND IT WAS THERE.

ISN'T PART OF WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING IS BRAG TO YOUR COM COMPATRIOTS THAT I AM RESPONSIBLE.

ISN'T THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT, OR NO?

>> WE DO HAVE INFORMATION THAT WE'VE GATHERED OVER THE YEARS ABOUT CERTAIN PEOPLE WE HAVE GREAT INTEREST IN, HAVING BRAGGED, BUT NOT TO THE EXTENT WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO PINPOINT WHERE WE CAN FIND THE PAINTINGS RIGHT NOW.

WE SAID IN THE PAST AND ON YOUR SHOW, WE HAVE A GOOD IDEA WHO DID THIS.

WE BELIEVE WE KNOW WHO PERPETRATED THE HEIST, BUT GETTING FROM POINT "A," WHO PULLED IT OFF, TO POINT "B," WHERE ARE THE PAINTINGS TODAY, IS THE ROUGH HERE.

>> Braude: THIS IS WHAT PUTS ME TOTALLY OVER THE EDGE: YOU -- AND I ASSUME WHEN YOU SAY "WE," YEARWE," YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE F.B.I -- >> YES.

>> Braude: YOU BELIEVE YOU KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE BUT YOU JUST CAN'T GET FROM HERE TO THERE WITH PROOF.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> RIGHT -- WELL, WE CAN'T GET FROM THERE TO WHERE THE PAINTINGS ARE TODAY, WHICH IS THE ONLY QUESTION WE'RE TRYING TO ADDRESS.

>> Braude: WHAT DO YOU MEAN?

BECAUSE THE SUSPECTS ARE DEAD?

>> YES.

THE F.B.I.

MENTIONED YEARS AGO THAT THE SUSPECTS, THE ACTUAL PERPETRATORS, THAT PASSED AWAY.

BUT BEYOND THAT, JIM, THE ONLY GOAL HERE IS PUTTING THE PAINTINGS BACK.

AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I WORK AT THE MUSEUM, AND ARRESTS AND PROSECUTIONS AREN'T THE SORTS OF THINGS WE REALLY CARE ABOUT.

ON TOP OF THAT, THE STATUE OF LIMITATIONS EXPIRED MANY, MANY YEARS AGO.

>> Braude: WHY DON'T YOU SAY OUT LOUD THE PERSON WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, SINCE THEIR DEAD -- YOU CAN'T GET SUEED SUED FOR THAT.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY THE NAME?

>> WE BELIEVE IT IS A MUCH MORE AFFECTIVE WAY FOR US TO INVESTIGATE IT VIA GOING TO PEOPLE WE KNOW WHO ARE CONNECTED TO THOSE, INSTEAD OF PUTTING THESE THINGS OUT THERE AND GETTING FLOODED -- AND I MEAN FLOODED -- WITH CALLS NOT JUST FROM PSYCHICS AND WHAT HAVE YOU BUT FROM CON MEN AND THEORISTS.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS THE EXTENT TO WHICH WE RECEIVE CALLS FROM THOSE TYPES OF PEOPLE.

AND THEY ALL HAVE TO BE FOLLOWED UP ON, JIM, SO IT IS INCREDIBLY TIME-CONSUMING.

>> Braude: I, AS AN OUTSIDER, FOLLOWED THIS FAIRLY CLOSELY, AS I THINK EVERYBODY IN THIS COMMUNITY HAS, AND THE GUY I CAN'T GET MY MIND OFF, THERE WAS A 23-YEAR-OLD GUARD, ACCORDING TO YOU, NOT SOMEBODY ELSE, YOUR MOTION DETECTORS IN THE MUSEUM NEVER DETECTED THE THIEVES IN A ROOM WHERE THEY DID DETECT THIS GUARD.

AND YOU SAID PRIOR TO LETTING HIM BUZZ THE THIEVES IN, HE OPENED THE SIDE DOOR.

WHY IS HE STILL A FREE MAN?

THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE IS PRETTY OVERWHELMING, EVIDENCE, ISN'T IT?

>> IT CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

IT CAUSES ONE TO STAND UP AND PAY ATTENTION AND INVESTIGATE VERY THOROUGHLY, BUT IT IS NOT ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY ARREST SOMEBODY OR EVEN ACCUSE THEM OF A CRIME, JUST BASED ON THE CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE.

>> Braude: IS HE PART OF THE GROUP WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS, ACCORDING TO YOU?

>> I WOULDN'T COMMENT ON THAT.

>> Braude: I'M AMAZED AT HOW CALM YOU ARE.

WATCHING YOU NOW, ANTHONY, AND I'VE KNOWN YOU FOR QUITE A WHILE, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR ATTITUDE IS WE HAVE TO CONTINUE PURSUING WHAT WE'RE PURSUING, AND WE'LL FIND THE PAINTINGS NEXT WEEK, OR NEXT MONTH, AND IT HAS BEEN 32 YEARS.

UNLESS I'M MISREADING YOU, WHERE DOES THE LEVEL OF CONFIDENCE COME FROM?

IS IT HOPE OVER REALITY OR IS IT REALITY?

>> FOR ME, IT IS REALITY.

THE REASON IS, JUST BECAUSE I KNOW -- ALL I CAN DO, JIM, IS GIVE IT MY BEST EFFORT AND TRY TO DO EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO GET THE PAINTINGS BACK IN THE BEST WAY WE CAN.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M DOING.

THAT'S WHERE THE HOPE COMES FROM.

THAT'S WHERE THE CONFIDENCE COMES FROM.

I KNOW WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN.

THERE IS NO ONE I WON'T SPEAK TO.

THERE IS NO LINE -- WELL, THIS PERSON IS A DANGEROUS PERSON OR THIS PERSON IS UNSCRUPULOUS -- NO.

WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN.

SURE, WE COME UP WITH A LOT OF MISTRUTHS OR MYTHS ABOUT THE THEFT THAT CAUSE A LOT OF PROBLEMS.

PUBLICLY, I KEEP HEARING PEOPLE SAYING IF YOU COME FORWARD WITH ONLY ONE PAINTING, YOU GET NO REWARD, JUST CRAZY THINGS LIKE THIS THAT WE HAVE TO TRY TO COUNTER AS WELL.

AND WE'RE WORKING REALLY HARD.

AND I ALSO HAVE HISTORY TELLING ME THAT THESE THINGS DO COME BACK, AND THEY COME BACK A GENERATION LATER, AND PERSEVERANCE IS THE KEY.

>> Braude: I HOPE YOUR HOPE AND PERSEVERANCE IS REWARDED, AND I HOPE YOU'RE THERE THE DAY IT HAPPENS.

ANTHONY AMORE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: WHILE MY IDEA OF A PERFECT NEW ENGLAND WINTER DAY INCLUDES A COUCH, GOOD BOOK, AND A HOT CUP OF COFFEE AS YOU WATCH THE SNOWFALL OUTSIDE, OTHERS HAVE A VERY DIFFERENT VIEW.

FOR SOME REASON, THEY LOOK AT THE FREEZING OCEAN WATER ON ANY GIVEN JANUARY MORNING AND THINK, "LET'S SURF!"

AS CHRONICLED IN A BEAUTIFUL NEW GBH NEWS DOCUMENTARY ON THE EXTREME SPORT OF WINTER SURFING -- EXTREME TO ME, NOT THEM.

>> SOME DAYS YOU JUST SWIM.

I CAN'T EVEN GRAB ONTO MY HANDS.

>> Braude: AND WHILE SOME, LIKE ME, MAY NOT SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WINTER ON A SURFBOARD AND WATERBOARDING, STORIES LIKE THOSE OF PAM CHEVEZ OF PORTLAND, MAINE, MAKE EVEN ME SEE IT ALL A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY.

>> WHEN I LEFT MEXICO, OF COURSE, THE THING I THINK THAT I'VE BEEN MISSING THE MOST IS FAMILY.

SO, LIKE, BRINGING THAT BOARD WITH ME IS JUST LIKE...(sobbing)... HAVING MY MOM OUT THERE.

I'M SORRY.

I CAME HERE ALONE, SO IT'S JUST, LIKE, THAT FEELING -- IS LIKE JUST REMEMBERING WHERE YOU COME FROM AND, LIKE, THE PEOPLE YOU LEFT BEHIND AND, LIKE, THE ONES YOU MISS, ESPECIALLY YOUR MOTHER.

>> Braude: PAM CHEVEZ JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH GBH NEWS' GREG SHEA, THE FILMMAKER BEHIND THIS DOCUMENTARY.

>> Braude: GOOD TO MEET YOU, PAM, AND, GREG, CONGRATULATIONS.

IT'S GREAT.

>> THANKS, JIM.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> HI.

>> Braude: GRERKS LET ME START>> Braude: GREG, LET ME START WITH YOU.

THE ONLY THING MORE CHILLING IS WINDSURFING WHEN IT IS -4°.

HOW DID THIS ALL GET STARTED?

>> IT CAME FROM THOSE GUYS WHO WERE TAKING ON THOSE WAVES AT SALISBURY BEACH THE MORNING AFTER A SNOWSTORM, AND THOSE GUYS ARE MY NEIGHBORS.

ONE OF THE THINGS IN MY SHOW, WHO I WANT TO SHOWCASE, WHO ARE THESE GUYS.

I HAPPEN TO HAVE TWO NEIGHBORS WHO LIVE THREE HOUSES AWAY FROM ME IN EITHER DIRECTION, AND THEY ARE THE GUYS WHO GO OUT AND DO THIS.

I FOUND IT TO BE SUCH A CURIOSITY BEYOND JUST THAT ONE SENTENCE DESCRIPTIONS, LIKE, WHO ARE THEY AND WHY DO THEY DO THIS.

I MET EDGAR AND MELINDA AND PAM WHO HAVE AMAZING STORIES, AND THEY'RE ALL AROUND US.

THEY'RE NOT PROFESSIONAL SURFERS, BUT THEY ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT.

>> Braude: DO THEY EVER.

PAM, SPEAKING OF SURREAL, MEXICO CITY, WARM, YOU DON'T SURF.

YOU COME TO MAINE AND YOU DO SURF.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT TO ME?

>> (laughing) I THINK IT WAS OUT OFñr DESPERATION, IF YOU WANT TO SAY IT LIKE THAT.

BEING IN A NEW COUNTRY, NOT HAVING LEGAL PAPERS TO WORK QUITE YET, EVERYTHING GETTING IN ORDER AND JUST TRYING TO NOT GO CRAZY.

AND SUDDENLY YOU SEE ALL OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WATER, IT'S JUST, LIKE, PUSHED ME TO GIVE ME A SHOT.

>> Braude: THAT BEAUTIFUL CLIP ABOUT YOU TALKING ABOUT YOUR MOTHER.

YOU HAVE AN OWL ON YOUR CUSTOM SURFBOARD.

WHY IS THERE AN OWL ON THERE?

>> WHEN I WAS LITTLE, MY MOM USED TO CALL ME A LITTLE OWL IN MY NATIVE LANGUAGE IN MEXICO.

SO I DECIDED TO PAINT MY BOARD LIKE THAT SO I CAN REMEMBER WHERE I COME FROM AND HAVE MY MOM PRESENT ALL OF THE TIME, EVEN THOUGH SHE IS FAR AWAY.

YOU KNOW?

>> Braude: I DO KNOW.

YOU SAID IT BEAUTIFULLY.

PAM, HOW COLD IS IT WHEN YOU GO OUT THERE?

EVERYBODY IN GREG'S FILM PUT ON THIS NEO PRIM, WHATEVER THAT IS, AND IT'S GOT TO BE COLD DESPITE THE OUTFIT, IS IT NOT?

>> I MEAN, THE AIR IS COLD.

ONCE YOU GET IN THAT PENGUIN WETSUIT, IT IS REALLY NOT THAT COLD.

IT STARTS BECOMING REALLY WARM, ACTUALLY.

WE PERSONALLY DRESS UP BEFORE GETTING OUT THERE.

AND IT IS REALLY HOT WHEN I'M IN MY CAR, SO ALL I WANT TO DO IS JUMP IN THE COLD WATER.

>> Braude: CAN YOU FEEL YOUR BODY -- WHEN YOU'RE DONE DOING A HALF HOUR OF THIS, WHATEVER IT IS, CAN YOU FEEL ALL OF YOUR PARTS?

[LAUGHTER] >> Braude: I'M SORRY, IT IS SO ALIEN TO ME.

IT IS BEAUTIFUL IN THE FILM.

CAN YOU FEEL EVERYTHING, OR WHAT?

>> I MEAN, LIKE, IT IS DEFINITELY HARDER TO MOVE, RIGHT, BECAUSE IT IS SIX MILLIMETERS OR FIVE MILLIMETERS OF NEOPRIME.

PRIM.

YOU FEEL YOUR BODY, BUT YOU JUST DON'T FEEL THE COLD THAT MUCH.

BUT AFTER TWO HOURS, YOU START FEELING COLD.

WHEN YOU DON'T FEEL YOUR TOES, I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO GET OUT OF HERE.

>> Braude: WE'RE GOING TO GET BACK TO SOME OF THE IMAGES OF WOMEN SURFING WITH PAM IN A SECOND.

GREG, THE THING THAT CAME ACROSS TO ME AS A NON-SURFER, THERE IS A COMMON THREAD THROUGH EVERY ONE OF THESE PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A REALLY DIVERSE GROUP OF PEOPLE.

YOU FELT THAT, TOO, NO?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE FUN THINGS THAT KIND OF ORGANICALLY CAME ABOUT WHILE I WAS WORKING ON THIS.

IT WAS KIND OF BEAUTIFUL TO SEE -- I HAVE SEQUENCES IN THE FILM WHERE EVERYBODY KIND OF FINISHES EACH OTHER'S SENTENCES.

YOU HAVE A KID FROM THE WEST COAST, JAKE, WHO GREW UP IN CALIFORNIA, AND HE IS IN THE MILITARY, AND HIM AND PAM MAY NOT HAVE NECESSARILY THE MOST SIMILAR BACKGROUND, BUT THEY CAN RELATE TO DOING THIS KIND OF EXTREME FUN THING IN THE OCEAN.

>> Braude: LET'S GO BACK TO THAT PHOTOGRAPH WE SAW A MOMENT AGO, MAINE WOMEN SURF.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE NAME HAS CHANGED, BUT WHAT IS THAT EXACTLY THAT YOU'RE INVOLVED IN?

>> MORE WOMEN SURF NOW.

IT IS A COMMUNITY-BASED GROUP TO BRING MORE WOMEN IN THE WATER, GIVE THEM THAT CHANCE TO EXPLORE THE OCEAN AND CONNECT WITH THE OCEAN.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, IT IS ABOUT BRINGING THOSE WOMEN WHO DON'T HAVE THE SAME PRIVILEGE AS SOME OF US TO THAT EXPERIENCE BECAUSE IT IS DEFINITELY NOT A REALLY ACCESSIBLE SPORT, AND IT CAN BECOME REAL EXPENSIVE.

SO IT CHANGES TO BE MORE THAN JUST EXISTING COMMUNITY OF SURFERS.

IT IS NOW ABOUT ALSO BRINGING AND GROWING IT AND SHARING IT WITH PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALLY HAVE THAT ACCESS.

>> Braude: AND, PAM, YOU'RE ALSO, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, WORKING WITH PUBLIC SCHOOL KIDS, OR ATmhS(hPS á(T >> YEAH.

WE'RE HOPING, HOPING THAT IT GETS APPROVED, TO PARTNER UP WITH THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS IN PORTLAND TO CREATE A PILOT PROGRAM.

>> Braude: I WANT EVERYBODY TO SEE THE FILM, PAM, BUT FOR SKEPTICS, I KNOW IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO DESCRIBE AN EXPERIENCE LIKE THAT IN WORDS.

BUT TRY FOR 30 SECONDS.

WHAT IS IT LIKE WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE AND IT IS 5° AND YOUR ON A WAVE?

>> HONESTLY, IT IS PROBABLY THE MOST CALMING MOMENT OF MY DAY.

NOTHING ELSE EXISTS, AND IT'S -- IT GIVES MY MIND SOME PEACEFULNESS.

BEING NOT A NATIVE LANGUAGE SPEAKER, ENGLISH SPEAKER, WHEN YOU'RE IN THE OCEAN AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO COMMUNICATE OR YOU DON'T HAVE TO EXPLAIN YOURSELF A LOT, IT IS JUST LIKE A NICE BREAK TO HAVE.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT'S JUST LIKE -- IT BRINGS YOU BACK TO LIFE.

IT MAKES YOU FEEL LIKE YOURSELF.

YOU'RE JUST CONNECTING WITH THE WATER.

IT IS JUST YOU AND THE WATER.

AND WHEN THEN YOU REALIZE YOU'RE NOT ALONE, YOU CAN TURN AROUND AND JUST SMILE AT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AROUND YOU, AND YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE TO SAY WORDS, RIGHT?

IT IS JUST SHARING A SMILE.

>> Braude: GREG, BEFORE WE GO, YOU SAID HOW YOU'RE SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE WHO DO THIS.

I KNOW YOU WHO TO BE A PRETTY ATHLETIC GUY.

AND WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU WENT WINTER SURFING?

>> I ACTUALLY TRIED IT LAST WEEKEND.

>> Braude: YOU DID?

>> YES.

AND IT'S A LOT HARDER THAN IT LOOKS.

BUT I'M GOING TO KEEP TRYING.

>> Braude: THE PEOPLE ARE INCREDIBLE, AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THE HORRIBLE WEATHER DAYS ARE PERFECTLY BEAUTIFUL.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: TO WATCH THE FULL DOCUMENTARY, HEAD TO gbhnews.org, OR Youtube.com/GBHNews AND SEARCH "WINTER SURFING."

>>> THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

CONGRESSMAN JAKE AUCHINCLOSS JOINS ME ON REACTIONS TO TONIGHT'S STATE OF THE UNION AND THE LATEST EFFORTS TO AID UKRAINE AS RUSSIAN FORCES INCREASINGLY TARGET CIVILIANS.

PLUS, MAURA HEALEY ON HER RUN FOR GOVERNOR AND HER FINAL FEW MONTHS AS ATTORNEY GENERAL.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org