>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": I'LL TALK WITH JASON TIBBETTS, A BROCKTON NATIVE LIVING IN ODESSA, UKRAINE, WHO'S CHOOSING TO STAY AND SUPPORT THOSE FIGHTING FOR FREEDOM.

PLUS, TWO PEOPLE WHO KNEW AMERICAN JOURNALIST BRENT RENAUD WELL.

RENAUD WAS SHOT AND KILLED BY RUSSIAN TROOPS IN UKRAINE YESTERDAY WHILE TRYING TO COVER THE REFUGEE CRISIS.

AND PUTIN'S BRUTAL ATTACKS ARE NOT ONLY ALIENATING RUSSIA, AMONG OTHER WORLD LEADERS, THEY'RE ALSO TURNING MANY RUSSIANS BEYOND HIS BORDERS AGAINST HIM, TOO, INCLUDING THE MAJORITY OF THOSE LIVING IN THE U.S., ACCORDING TO A NEW SURVEY.

WE'LL LOOK AT THAT, AND HOW PRESIDENT BIDEN'S PRO-UKRAINIAN EFFORTS ARE BEING PERCEIVED, WITHALns SUn POLLSTER DAVID PALEOLOGOS.

♪♪ >> Braude: OVER A WEEKEND WHERE THE BIGGEST AMERICANS WAS LOSING AN HOUR TO DAYLIGHT SAVING, PUTIN'S ASSAULT ON UKRAINE HAS INTENSIFIED, WITH RUSSIA TARGETING MORE RESIDENTIAL AREAS, INCLUDING BOMBING AN APARTMENT BUILDING IN KYIV.

AND IN MARIUPOL, WHICH HAS BEEN LEVELED BY PUTIN'S FORCES, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF UKRAINIANS REMAIN STRANDED WITHOUT FOOD, WATER, HEAT, OR A WAY OUT.

A FEW HUNDRED PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO FLEE SAFELY TODAY, AFTER DAYS OF ATTACKS ON REFUGEE CARAVANS.

NEARLY THREE MILLION PEOPLE HAVE LEFT UKRAINE SO FAR.

ALTHOUGH, REMARKABLY, SOME REPORTEDLY AROUND 200,000 ARE NOW MAKING THEIR WAY BACK TO UKRAINE TO STAND WITH THE MILLIONS WHO HAVE STAYED TO PROTECT THEIR COUNTRY.

IT'S JUST THE LATEST EXAMPLE OF THE AWE-INSPIRING BRAVERY WE'VE SEEN FROM THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP THEM.

AMONG THEM IS BROCKTON NATIVE JASON TIBBETTS, A FORMER U.S. ARMY MEDIC, WHO JOINS ME NOW FROM ODESSA, WHERE HE'S BEEN LIVING AND TEACHING ENGLISH FOR THE PAST 10 YEARS.

>> Braude: JASON, IT IS GOOD TO MEET YOU.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: SO IT IS LATE AT NIGHT IN ODESSA, A STRATEGIC PORT CITY ON THE BLACK SEA, AND WHAT'S THE SITUATION THERE NOW?

>> UM, WELL, AT THIS TIME OF NIGHT EVERYBODY KEEPS LIKE LIGHTS OUT.

WE HAVE A CURFEW THAT STARTS AT 10:00 P.M., AND SO WE'RE LIKED LOCKED IN OUR BUILDINGS FROM 10:00 P.M. UNTIL 7:00 IN THE MORNING.

DURING THE DAYTIME, THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR IN THE CITY.

THERE ARE MESSAGES EVERY DAY, OF COURSE, THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE ATTACKED.

AND FRIENDS AND WELL-WISHERS AND PEOPLE WRITE, I HEARD ON THE NEWS, I HEARD RUMORS, SO THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR.

THE CITY IS MOSTLY A GHOST TOWN, FULL OF ELDERLY PEOPLE, CHILDREN, AND PEOPLE WITH NOWHERE ELSE TO GO REALLY AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

>> Braude: DO YOU FEEL THAT FEAR YOURSELF?

>> NOT AS MUCH AS THEY DO.

I SEE IT IN THEM, AND, TO ME, IT'S, UM, A LITTLE BIT STRESSFUL TO KIND OF DEAL WITH A LOT OF THOSE MESSAGES THAT I GET ABOUT KIND OF WORRYING AND THE EVERYDAY THAT WE'RE KIND OF EXPECTING IT.

BUT I DON'T FEEL A LOT OF THE FEAR.

I FEEL A LOT OF SYMPATHY, I SUPPOSE, FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE.

I SUPPOSE I'LL FEEL FEAR WHEN THE TIME ACTUALLY COMES, BUT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, NO.

>> Braude: WHICH AMAZES ME.

BEYOND BEING, AS YOU KNOW, THE MAYOR OF ODESSA SAID AS RECENTLY AS FRIDAY THAT AN INVASION, AN ATTACK, BY THE RUSSIANS IS IMMINENT.

I'M SURE YOU SEE THE SAME IMAGES WE DO, OF PREGNANT WOMEN MURDERED AT THE HOSPITAL, CHILDREN BEING KILLED.

HOW DO YOU WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND THAT AFTER BEING IN THIS COUNTRY FOR 10 YEARS UNDER -- IN A TOTALLY DIFFERENT WORLD?

>> YOU CAN'T WRAP YOUR HEAD AROUND IT.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE TO LOOK AT THOSE IMAGES AND TO SEE THAT THAT WOMAN -- TO SEE THAT WOMAN BEING CARRIED OFF OR FAMILIES BEING SHOT, AND JUST THE EVIL THAT WOULD COMMIT SUCH ACTIONS, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO.

IT'S JUST COMPLETE SADNESS THAT SOMEONE COULD DO THAT AND SADNESS THAT A LIFE COULD BE EXTINGUISHED, THAT A BABY COULD DIE EVEN BEFORE IT HAS A CHANCE TO TAKE A BREATH OUTSIDE OF ITS MOTHER'S BELLY.

IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN THE PROUDEST MOMENT OF HERE LIFE AND YET COMPLETELY DESTROYED.

>> Braude: YET DID SPITE THE VIOLENCE ALL AROUND YOU, AND THE VIOLENCE COMING TO YOUR CITY RELATIVELY SOON, YOU'VE CHOSEN TO STAY.

WHY?

>> SOMEONE HAS TO HELP.

I WAS A MEDIC, AS YOU MENTIONED, IN THE MILITARY.

THAT HARDLY QUALIFIES ME TO BE THE BEST PERSON TO HELP OUT HERE, OR TO DO KIND OF THE MOST USEFUL THINGS, BUT WITH SO MANY PEOPLE LEAVING AND PROTECTING THEIR OWN FAMILIES, THERE HAS TO BE SOMEONE WHO CAN, YOU KNOW, MAYBE LEND A HAND.

AND IF I WERE TO LEAVE, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING, ON MY OWN CONSCIENCE, THAT I WOULD BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH.

>> Braude: HOW DO YOU PREPARE -- ARE YOU PREPARING?

>> YES, OF COURSE.

>> Braude: WHAT ARE YOU DOING?

>> FIRST OFF, PREPARING IN THE SENSE OF I'VE CONTACTED THE LOCAL MILITARY HERE.

AND I WILL, WHEN AND IF AN ATTACK COMES -- THEY WILL CONTACT ME, TELL ME WHERE TO GO, WHERE I CAN WORK, WHERE TO HELP OUT.

SO I GUESS THAT'S ABOUT IT.

AS FAR AS ME PERSONALLY PREPARING, IT IS BUYING A LOT OF OATMEAL, A LOT OF TUNA, TAPING UP THE WINDOWS, AS YOU WOULD IN THESE SITUATIONS.

AND BEING READY FOR KIND OF A LONG HAUL.

AND DOING WHAT I CAN AT THAT POINT IN TIME.

BUT I SUPPOSE THAT YOU CAN'T REALLY BE PREPARED, OTHER THAN JUST AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE STAY CALM, BE READY, AND WHEN THE TIME COMES, ACT.

>> Braude: I'M SORRY TO STAY ON THIS SAME TOPIC, BUT IT IS SO -- I CAN'T -- I CAN'T GET THE HEROISM THAT I SEE IN THE KINDS OF THINGS YOU SAY -- YOU'RE GOING TO GO TO BED IN A LITTLE WHILE.

>> YEAH.

>> Braude: DO YOU NOT GO TO BED WITH TREPIDATION THAT YOU COULD BE WAKE KEN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT BY THE SOUNDS OF A MISSILE LANDING NEAR YOU.

OR DO YOU JUST GO TO BED AND GET UP AGAIN AND DO IT AGAIN.

HOW DO YOU DO THIS?

>> I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T SLEEP AT ALL.

THEY'RE UP ALL NIGHT AND POSTING, WAITING FOR THAT TO HAPPEN.

WE KNOW THAT THE ROCKETS COME AT 4:20, 4:00 A.M., AND THAT'S THE MOST COMMON TIME FOR RUSSIA TO LAUNCH THE ATTACK ON CITIES.

I SUPPOSE FOR ME, PERSONALLY, NO, I LISTEN TO SOME CALMING MUSIC AND TRY TO KIND OF GET AWAY FROM SOCIAL MEDIA FOR ABOUT 30 MINUTES OR SO BEFORE BED BECAUSE WHAT CAN YOU REALLY DO?

RUNNING AROUND IN CIRCLES AND BEING FEARFUL OF SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAPPEN TOMORROW, OR MIGHT NOT HAPPEN TOMORROW, ISN'T GOING TO DO ME ANY GOOD OR THE PEOPLE I TRY TO HELP ANY GOOD.

SO, NO.

I WAKE UP A LOT.

I WAKE UP ABOUT TWO OR THREE TIMES, BUT I'M ABLE TO GO BACK TO SLEEP AT LEAST.

>> Braude: YOU GOT TO KNOW UKRAINIAN PEOPLE UP CLOSE FOR THE 10 YEARS USED BEEN THERE.

COULD YOU HAVE FORESEEN AN OLD MAN KNEELING DOWN IN FRONT OF A RUSSIAN TANK, OR A RETIRED UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR, A WOMAN IN THIS CASE, BUILDING MATTER OF FACTUALLY MOLOTOV COCKTAILS IN HER BACKYARD TO DISTRIBUTE TO HER NEIGHBORS -- COULD YOU HAVE IMAGINED THIS KIND OF HEROISM?

>> NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT.

I COULD TELL YOU THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHEN I FIRST CAME TO THE COUNTRY, WERE SUPPORTIVE OF RUSSIA.

THEY WOULD LOOK BACK ON THE SOVIET UNION, AS PEOPLE MIGHT DO WHEN THEY GET TO OLDER YEARS, KIND OF THE PAST WAS BETTER, AND CERTAINLY THERE WAS A LOT OF POSITIVE FEELING.

YOU KNOW, EVEN PEOPLE THAT I PERSONALLY KNOW A FEW WEEKS AGO HAD POSITIVE FEELINGS TOWARDS RUSSIA.

BUT ALL OF THAT POSITIVE FEELING IS GONE.

THERE IS NONE OF THAT NOW.

THERE IS JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE OUR LAND.

WHAT YOU HAVE DONE IS JUST PURE EVIL.

AND THE PEOPLE THAT MIGHT HAVE LIKED TO GLORIFY THE SOVIET UNION, OR MIGHT HAVE EVEN LIKED VLADIMIR PUTIN AND THOUGHT HE WAS SOMEHOW A BETTER LEADER, NO.

AND THE COUNTRY AND THE PEOPLE HAVE REALLY UNIFIED.

AND I'M SO SURPRISED, SO SHOCKED, AND SO PROUD OF HOW THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE HAVE STOOD UP TO AN ARMY THAT IS SO MUCH BIGGER, SO MUCH STRONGER, BUT CERTAINLY NOT THAT WELL ORGANIZED.

>> Braude: AS I SAID, YOU'RE A BROCKTON KID.

DO YOU THINK THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT IS DOING ENOUGH TO HELP THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE?

>> NO, I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT.

>> Braude: WHAT ELSE SHOULD IT DO?

>> I THINK THEY NEED TO BLOCK THE SKIES.

THAT IS WHAT UKRAINE CONTINUES TO ASK.

I UNDERSTAND -- PERSONALLY, I FEEL THAT BIDEN'S COMMENTS ABOUT WORLD WAR III ARE CREATING A LOT OF FEAR THAT DOESN'T NEED TO BE CREATED.

I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE SITUATION WITH RUSSIA.

IF WE LOOK BACK AT WHAT RUSSIA DID WITH JORDAN, GEORGE, AND WHEN RUSSIA BROUGHT THE TANKS TO RUSSIA, AND YOU LOOK AT WHO WAS THEN THE PRESIDENT OF GEORGE GEORGIA AND WHAT HE SAID AT THE TIME, IT WAS LEAKED THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS GOING TO SEND MILITARY TO GEORGIA, AND CHENEY -- THEY WERE GOING TO LAUNCH CRUISE MISSILES, AND RUSSIA STOPPED AT THAT POINT IN TIME, WITHIN 40 MINUTES OF THAT INFORMATION BEING LEAKED.

SO WHAT VLADIMIR PUTIN IS SAYING AND THE THREATS HE IS MAKING, THEY'RE COMPLETELY HOLLOW.

THEY'RE NOT REAL.

HE IS NOT A MADMAN, BUT HE KNOWS IF HE MAKES THOSE THREATS, WE WILL BACK DOWN.

AND THAT IS, UNFORTUNATELY, CURRENTLY THE SITUATION.

AND AT WHAT POINT ARE WE GOING TO STEP IN?

AT WHAT POINT ARE WE GOING TO HELP, LIKE YOU MENTIONED, 80 CHILDREN HAVE NOW BEEN KILLED IN 16 DAYS.

LIKE YOU SAID, PREGNANT WOMEN, FAMILIES BEING MASSACRED.

A COUNTRY THAT HAS HELPED US.

WE HAVE SIGNED THE BUDAPEST ACCORD WITH THEM.

IN THE 1990s, UKRAINE HAD THE THIRD MOST NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN THE WORLD.

AND WE SIGNED AN AGREEMENT WITH THEM THAT WE WOULD PROTECT THEIR SOVEREIGNTY IF SOMETHING HAPPENED.

AND WHERE DOES THAT EVEN -- WHAT DOES OUR WORD EVEN MATTER AS A COUNTRY IF WE DON'T KEEP THE AGREEMENTS WE MAKE?

AND HOW CAN WE TELL OTHER COUNTRIES TO DEMILITARIZE OR TAKE THEIR NUKES AWAY IF WE DON'T KEEP THE THINGS THAT WE PROMISED?

AND I WAS CERTAINLY NO FAN OF BUSH, BY THE WAY, NOT A FAN OF HIM BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION, BUT WE NEED TO PROTECT UKRAINIAN SKIES AND STAND UP TO VLADIMIR PUTIN.

BECAUSE IF WE DO NOT AND HE IS ABLE TO TAKE UKRAINE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE THINK THE RESULT IS GOING TO BE, IN ALL HONESTY.

THAT MR. PUTIN IS GOING TO GO BACK TO RUSSIA WITH A LOST WAR?

THERE ARE ONLY THREE RESULTS HERE: HE IS EITHER GOING TO -- IF THERE IS A CHANCE THAT HE COULD POTENTIALLY LOSE, HE'LL TURN THE COUNTRY INTO ASH, IN MY OPINION, BEFORE HE GOES BACK TO HIS OWN COUNTRY WITH A LOSS.

AND IF HE IS ABLE TO TAKE THIS COUNTRY, IT IS GOING TO BE A STRONGER RUSSIA, THAT IS THEN GOING TO TURN THEIR EYE TOWARDS MOLDOVA AND THE OTHER NON-NATO COUNTRIES, IF WE SAY NAME IS SOMEHOW THAT LINE, AND HE'LL CONTINUE TO GROW.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A CHANCE WHERE RUSSIANS DO NOT SUPPORT MR. PUTIN.

THEY'RE VERY NEGATIVE AGAINST HIM.

IF RESTAND UP TO WE STAND UP TO HIM NOW, I THINK WE'LL SAVE A LOT OF LIVES.

>> Braude: JASON, THANK YOU TO YOU AND YOUR UKRAINIAN NEIGHBORS.

>> THANK YOU, AND GREETINGS FROM UKRAINE.

>> Braude: AMONG THE MANY KILLED IN UKRAINE OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS IS AMERICAN JOURNALIST BREND REYNOLDS.

>> Braude: AMONG THE MANY KILLED IN UKRAINE OVER THE PAST FEW DAYS WAS AMERICAN JOURNALIST BRENT RENAUD.

ACCORDING TO HIS REPORTING PARTNER, JUAN ARREDONDO, THEY WERE SHOT AT AFTER PASSING A CHECKPOINT IN IRPIN, IN A CAR, AS THEY WERE ON THEIR WAY TO FILM REFUGEES FLEEING THE FIGHTING.

JUAN ARREDONDO WAS WOUNDED AS WELL BUT SURVIVED.

HE AND RENAUD HAD BEEN WORKING ON A FILM FOR "TIME" STUDIOS ABOUT THE GLOBAL REFUGEE CRISIS.

UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS SAY RUSSIAN FORCES WERE RESPONSIBLE.

RENAUD WAS A 2019 HARVARD NIEMAN FELLOW AND PEABODY AWARD-WINNING DOCUMENTARIAN WHO WORKED FOR HBO, NBC, AND THE "NEW YORK TIMES," AMONG OTHER OUTLETS.

HE OFTEN TEAMED UP WITH HIS BROTHER TO COVER SOME OF THE MOST DANGEROUS CONFLICT ZONES IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING THE WARS IN IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN, THE HAITI EARTHQUAKE, AND CARTEL VIOLENCE IN MEXICO.

>> HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU THINK THAT YOU'VE KILLED?

[Speaking through interpreter] >> 15 PERSONS.

>> HOW OLD WERE YOU THE FIRST TIME YOU KILLED SOMEBODY?

[Speaking through interpreter] >> 15 YEARS OLD.

>> DO YOU HAVE ANY REGRETS ABOUT WHAT YOU DO?

[Speaking through interpreter] >> IN THE BEGINNING, YES, BUT NOT ANYMORE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DO THIS TO MAKE MONEY, WHY SHOULDN'T I?

>> Braude: THAT'S THE THE 2001 DOCUMENTARY "ARMING THE MEXICAN CARTELS," WHICH WON A DUPONT-COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY JOURNALISM AWARD.

I'M JOINED BY CORRESPONDENT CHRISTOF PUTZEL, WHO YOU JUST SAW IN THAT CLIP, AND ANN MARIE LIPINSKI, WHO GOT TO KNOW RENAUD WELL AT THE HARVARD NIEMAN FOUNDATION, WHERE SHE IS A CURATOR.

>> Braude: I THANK YOU BOTH FOR BEING HERE.

CHRISTOFF, YOU DESCRIBE HIM AS THE BEST WAR JOURNALIST EVER.

WHY?

>> Braude: BECAUSE BRENT HAD COURAGE LIKE NOBODY I HAD EVER SEEN, YET AT THE SAME TIME HE HAD THIS HEART TO GO INTO WHERE HE KNEW HE WAS NEEDED.

HE WAS SO INCREDIBLY CAREFUL AND FOCUSED.

AND THIS IS A COMBINATION WHERE YOU HAVE -- WHERE YOU SCORE A 10 OUT OF 10 IN ALL OF THOSE.

I DON'T KNOW MANY PEOPLE THAT CAN DO THAT, AND THAT'S WHAT MADE BRENT SO GOOD.

>> Braude: I HEARD YOU SAY IN SOME INTERVIEW, AND THIS HAS STAYED WITH ME, THAT NO MATTER WHERE HE WAS IN THE WORLD, NO MATTER WHAT THE CONFLICT WAS, HE LOOKED LIKE HE BLENDED IN.

WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> BRENT WAS A CAM CHAMELEON.

HE COULD GO TO ANY COUNTRY, ANY CHECKPOINT, ANY COMMUNITY, AND SOMEHOW HE LOOKED LIKE HE BELONGED.

EVEN IN AFRICA, THIS IS A WHITE GUY FROM LITTLE ROCK, ARKANSAS, AND HE COULD WALK IN AND MADE PEOPLE FEEL LIKE HE BELONGED THAT AND HE WAS WORTHY OF THEIR STORY.

>> Braude: ANNE-MARIE, WHAT CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT BRENT'S WORK?

>> I GOT A CALL TODAY FROM KEVIN CALLARD FROM "THE BOSTON GLOBE," AND HE SAID, I KEEP READING THESE QUOTES FROM YOU, AND YOU KEEP USING THE WORD "HUMANITY" TO DESCRIBE BRENT.

I DON'T KNOW WHEN WE WERE TOGETHER IF I EVER THOUGHT ABOUT HIM THAT WAY, BUT REVIEWING THIS WORK AND REALLY THINKING DEEPLY ABOUT HIM IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS, IT JUST KEEPS COMING TO MIND.

AND THE EXCELLENCE IN THE WORK IS NOT THE RESULT OF, YOU KNOW, SOME TECHNICAL PROWESS HE POSSESSED, THOUGH HE DID POSSESS THAT, BUT HE JUST HAD SUCH A FUNDAMENTAL EMPATHY AND HUMILITY.

AND IT JUST CAME THROUGH.

AND I THINK TO MEET BRENT AND HEAR THE FOCUS OF A STORY HE IS DOING, WOULD BE TO FEEL SO IF NOT INSTANTANEOUSLY, EVENTUALLY SO COMFORTABLE THAT YOU WEREN'T TALKING TO A CAMERA.

YOU WEREN'T MAYBE EVEN TALKING TO A JOURNALIST.

YOU WERE TALKING TO SOMEBODY WHO WAS DEEPLY INTERESTED IN YOUR STORY.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT REALLY COMES THROUGH IN HIS WORK.

>> Braude: I READ YOU SAID IN THE GLOBE, HE IS ONE OF THE KINDEST PEOPLE YOU HAD EVER MET.

THE PHOTOGRAPHER WITH HIM ALSO WORKED WITH HIM IN THE NIEMAN PROGRAM AND IS RECOVERING.

>> I FINALLY WAS ABLE TO TALK TO JUAN, AND HE PHONED ME.

HE IS STILL HOSPITALIZED.

HE ENDURED A SECOND SURGERY, SO HE HAS A LITTLE WAYS TO GO, BUT THE HOPE IS THAT HE RECOVERS AND CAN BE RETURNED TO THE U.S.

SOON.

>> Braude: CHRISTOFF, THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF RUNNING INTO A BURNING BUILDING OR CHOOSING TO WORK IN A WAR ZONE IS TOTALLY ALIEN TO ME, AND I'M GUESSING TO MANY OF OUR VIEWERS.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE WHY YOUR FRIEND CHOSE THAT?

>> BECAUSE BRENT CARED MORE ABOUT THE STORY AND THE TRUTH THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

WE ALL HAVE OUR VALUES.

YOU KNOW?

AND THIS WAS AT THE TOP OF BRENT'S VALUE LIST.

HE WOULD GO STRAIGHT IN THERE, FULL COURAGE, HAVE HIS WITS ABOUT HIM, AND COME OUT WITH THE STORY BECAUSE PEOPLE TRUSTED HIM.

AND THAT WAS HIS TALENT.

AND WHY WOULD SOMEBODY DO IT?

BECAUSE THEY CARE THAT MUCH.

BRENT'S LEVEL OF EMPATHY WAS SO DEEP, HE FELT SO CONNECTED TO EVERYONE, AND ALSO KNEW IF HE REALLY FELT IF HE DIDN'T GET THE STORY, A LOT OF PEOPLE WOULD NEVER HEAR IT.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, ANNE MARIE, WE ALL KNOW THAT PUTIN IS BUSY MUZ MUZZLING JOURNALISTS AT HOME AND KILLING THEM, AND ARE WE DOING ENOUGH TO PROTECT PEOPLE LIKE BRENT RENAUD WHEN THEY DO THEIR WORK?

>> WELL, I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE REFLECTING ON IS THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY WHO HAVE HELPED CREATE A CLIMATE FOR THE KIND OF BRUTALITY AND DISDAIN THAT SO MANY JOURNALISTS MEET WHEN THEY'RE OUT IN THE FIELD.

SO SOME OF THOSE BEARING RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH JOURNALIST ARE NOW WORKING ARE ALL THOSE WHO DISMISS JOURNALISTS QUITE PUBLICLY AS SO-CALLED FAKE NEWS, AND LET LEADERS AROUND THE WORLD TO DO AS THEY WILL.

>> Braude: SPEAKING OF FAKE NEWS, WHEN YOU HERE VLADIMIR PUTIN USE DONALD TRUMP'S FAKE NEWS TERM, ANNE MARIE, HOW DOES THAT STRIKE YOU?

>> IT IS PRECISELY WHAT I WAS JUST TALKING ABOUT.

WE SEE IT IN PUTIN.

BUT WE SEE IT IN THE PHILIPPINES AND HUNGARY AND POLAND, WHERE THAT RHETORIC BECAME SO COMMON PLACE AND ACCEPTED.

>> Braude: ANNE MARIE, EVEN ABOVE AND APART THE FROM THE TRUMP EFFECT, FOR LACK OF A BETTER EXPRESSION, DID THE GOVERNMENT PASS -- WHEN PEOPLE LIKE PUTIN CONSIDER CIVILIANS TARGET, A RESOLUTION MEANS NOTHING, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

YOU'RE NO SAFER THAN THE CIVILIANS WE'VE SEEN SHOT DEAD IN THE PAST THREE WEEKS.

>> Braude: CHRISTOFF, WHEN PEOPLE LIKE ME, AT NIGHT, SIT ON OUR COUCH, AND WE FEEL HELPLESS WHEN WE WATCH WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE INNOCENT UKRAINIAN PEOPLE, AND WE WATCH WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR GOOD FRIEND, BRENT RENAUD, WHAT DO WE DO TO SUPPORT WORK LIKE HIS?

TO HELP PROTECT PEOPLE LIKE HIM, IF WE CAN?

WHAT CAN WE DO?

>> KEEP WATCHING THE NEWS.

THINK ABOUT SOMEBODY LIKE BRENT, WHO WAS ONLY ABLE TO DO WHAT HE WAS ABLE TO DO BECAUSE HE REACHED DEEP INSIDE OF HIMSELF TO SEE WHAT HE WAS CAPABLE OF AND JUST WENT FOR IT.

AND ALL OF US HAVE THAT ABILITY IN OUR OWN WAY.

EVERYBODY WATCHING AT HOME RIGHT NOW, WE'RE WATCHING ONE OF THE SCARIEST MOMENTS IN MOST OF OUR LIFETIMES THAT WE'VE EVER SEEN.

I UNDERSTAND THAT FEELING POWERLESS -- I KNOW IT WELL -- BUT THAT'S WHEN WE REACH DEEP INSIDE AND FIGURE OUT WHO YOU ARE AND WHAT DO YOU DO WITH WHAT YOU KNOW?

>> Braude: ANNE MARIE, WHAT CAN WE DO?

>> I AGREE, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO ALSO VERY PUBLICLY AND CONSISTENTLY FIGHT BACK AGAINST THE KIND OF DISMISSIVE HOSTILITY THAT WE HAVE HEARD LEVELED AGAINST THE PRESS, THAT WE HEAR THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, BUT EVEN IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTION WILL NOT PROTECT PEOPLE FROM -- JOURNALISTS FROM SOME OF THE ILL-WILL THAT THEY HAVE EXPERIENCED.

I THINK JOURNALISTS NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF ARTICULATING THE WORK THAT WE DO.

I THINK THEY HAVE NOT BEEN TRANSPARENT ENOUGH ABOUT THE WORK THAT WE DO.

AND I THINK TO EMULATE THE WORK THAT BRENT STOOD FOR, THE VALUES THAT HE POSSESSED.

ONE OF MY COLLEAGUES WAS TALKING ABOUT ONE OF THE THINGS HE REMEMBERS ABOUT BRENT, AND HE SAID SOMETHING TO HIM THAT CHANGED THE WAY THAT HE THOUGHT ABOUT HIS WORK.

AND HE SAID, IT'S OKAY TO WATCH YOUR SUBJECTS.

I THINK THERE ARE TRADITIONS WHERE WE FIGHT BACK AGAINST THAT IN JOURNALISM, AND WE IMPOSE DISTANCE, BUT IT IS NOT ALWAYS APPROPRIATE.

I THINK YOU SEE IN BRENT'S WORK HIS ABILITY TO LOVE THIS SUBJECTS.

>> Braude: THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

I APPRECIATE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: PUTIN'S BRUTAL ASSAULT ON UKRAINE HAS HAD MANY UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES SO FAR.

AMONG THEM, UNITING MOST OF THE WORLD AGAINST HIM.

THAT INCLUDES THOSE WITH UKRAINIAN AND RUSSIAN ROOTS HERE IN THE U.S.

ACCORDING TO A NEW SUFFOLK UNIVERSITY "U.S.A. TODAY" POLL, WHICH FOUND A VAST MAJORITY OF BOTH GROUPS OPPOSE THE INVASION.

AND THOSE OF RUSSIAN DESCENT STRONGLY FAVOR UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, BELIEVING VLADIMIR PUTIN SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM OFFICE, BY A MARGIN OF NINE TO ONE.

THE MAN BEHIND THOSE NUMBERS AND MANY MORE IS DIRECTOR OF SUFFOLK POLLING, DAVID PALEOLOGOS, WHO JOINS ME NOW.

>> Braude: DAVID, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: I THINK THIS WENT UP A SECOND AGO, RECENT FEELINGS OF UKRAINIANS LIVING IN THE U.S., 87-3.

I SAID A LOT OF RUSSIANS CAME TO THIS COUNTRY TO ESCAPE SOVIET UNION COMMUNISM.

THE NUMBERS AREN'T THAT SURPRISING -- IS IT OR ISN'T IT?

>> NOT THAT SURPRISING.

BUT THE INTENSITY LEVEL IS REALLY HIGH.

PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY OF UKRAINE HAS UPPED THE IN INTENSITY IN TERMS OF HIS ANTI-RUSSIAN STANCE.

A LOT OF THESE FOLKS HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS BACK IN RUSSIA.

SO I EXPECTED THE OPPOSITION, BUT I DIDN'T EXPECT IT TO BE THIS HIGH.

>> Braude: I WAS ALSO SURPRISED -- AND MAYBE I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN -- THAT MY MAJOR TAKE-AWAY FROM YOUR PIECE IS ON MOST, BUT NOT ALL ISSUES, UKRAINIANS HERE AND RUSSIANS HERE VIEW BOTH THIS INVASION AND THE KEY PLAYERS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WAY.

DID THAT SURPRISE YOU AT ALL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT WAS INCREDIBLE.

I MEAN, OVER EIGHT IN 10 DISAPPROVE OF PUTIN, WANT HIM REMOVED FROM OFFICE.

EVEN 70% OF RUSSIANS HERE WANT HIM CHARGED WITH WAR CRIMES.

AND WHEN WE ASK THEM TO, YOU KNOW, DESCRIBE VLADIMIR PUTIN IN ONE WORD, THEY CAME UP WITH EVERY SUPERLATIVE THAT IS HATEFUL.

AGAIN, THIS IS A PERSON WHOSE RELATIVES ARE STILL IN RUSSIA, WHO IS THE PRESIDENT OF THAT COUNTRY.

AND THAT KIND OF CONSISTENCY I DID NOT EXPECT.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, WE SPOKE EARLIER IN THIS SHOW TONIGHT TO A YOUNG MAN FROM BROCKTON WHO IS A TEACHER NOW AND HAS LIVED IN UKRAINE FOR 10 YEARS.

AND HE, WITH A PASSION, FELT THAT HIS COUNTRY, THE UNITED STATES, WAS NOT NEARLY DOING ENOUGH.

A MAJORITY OF RUSSIANS LIVING IN THE UNITED STATES -- 70%, I THINK IT WAS, OF UKRAINIANS IN THE UNITED STATES, ALSO FEEL THAT THE UNITED STATES IS NOT DOING ENOUGH TO HELP THE UKRAINIANS, CORRECT?

>> THAT'S ABSOLUTELY TRUE.

THIS IS A PROBLEM, AND THIS IS REALLY WHERE THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN RUSSIAN HERITAGE AND UKRAINIAN HERITAGE.

SEVEN IN 10 UKRAINIANS SAY THE U.S. IS NOT DOING ENOUGH.

ONLY ABOUT 50% OF RUSSIANS SAY THE SAME THING.

SO THERE IS A BIG GAP THERE.

WHEN WE ASK THE QUESTION ABOUT WHAT SHOULD THE UNITED STATES DO, YOU KNOW, THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE UKRAINIANS WERE SAYING THREE-QUARTERS TIGHTER ECONOMIC SANCTIONS, MILITARY HARDWARE, BUT UKRAINIANS WANT U.S.

TROOPS.

THE MAJORITY OF UKRAINIANS WANT U.S.

TROOPS IN THE NATO REGION, AND OVER ONE IN THREE WANT U.S.

TROOPS ON THE FRONT LINES TO FIGHT RUSSIA.

THAT COULD BE A TIPPING POINT IN TERMS OF A PUBLIC OPINION.

>> Braude: EVEN THOUGH THERE IS A 20-POINT GAP ABOUT THE U.S.

DOING ENOUGH, WHEN IT COMES TO, WHICH IS A NATURAL SEGUE TO ME, OF HOW BIDEN IS DOING HANDLING THIS CONFLICT, ONLY 40% OF RUSSIANS IN THE U.S. APPROVE.

35% OF UKRAINIANS APPROVE.

AND THAT WAS -- BY THE WAY, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THIS IS AFTER THE CONFLICT STARTED, CORRECT, THOSE NUMBERS?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

WE MADE A VERY IMPORTANT DECISION AFTER FEBRUARY 24th, WHEN THIS HAPPENED, TO GO INTO THE FIELD AND SCRAP A COUPLE OF MID-TERM POLLS AND TO SWAP THOSE OUT, NOT KNOWING WHETHER THE CONFLICT WOULD BE OVER IN A WEEK AND THE POLL WOULD BE USELESS OR WHETHER OR NOT IT WOULD BE AN INFLECTION POINT FOR SOMETHING BIGGER.

YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

BIDEN'S NUMBER IS LOWER THAN THEY ARE AMONG THE AVERAGE AMERICAN VOTER.

AND THEY'RE NOT ALL AMERICANS, BUT ON THE FLIP SIDE, THERE IS A LOT MORE UNDECIDEDS, TOO.

THEY HAD A WAIT AND SEE ATTITUDE, AND THE DISAPPROVAL ATTITUDE BE WASN'T AS HIGH AS IT IS IN THE U.S. NOW.

>> Braude: YOU WROTE A PIECE BEFORE THE CONFLICT STARTED SAYING THIS COULD BE A TIPPING POINT FOR JOE BIDEN.

IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE YOU SEE, EVEN IF IT IS ONLY CREEPING AT THIS POINT, THAT THERE IS A RALLYING AROUND THE FLAG AFFECT, OR NO?

>> YEAH -- IT DEPENDS ON HOW IT RESOLVES ITSELF.

SO THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR JOE BIDEN TO DO WHAT HE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO WITH AMERICAN VOTERS, WHICH IS CONVINCE THEM THAT HE IS A STRONG LEADER.

AND IN OUR POLLING, ONLY 35% OF VOTERS SAID HE IS A STRONG LEADER.

THIS IS THE KIND OF OPPORTUNITY THAT JOE BIDEN COULD STEP UP AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE AND POTENTIALLY CHANGE THE TRAJECTORIES OF CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATES THIS NOVEMBER.

>> Braude: FOR HIS BENEFIT AND FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE.

DAVID PALEOLOGOS, THANKS, AS ALWAYS.

>> OF COURSE.

>> Braude: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW.

THANK YOU FOR Captioned by WATCHING, AND PLEASE STAY SAFE.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org