♪ ADAM: TONIGHT ON TALKING POLITICS, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN SEEMS TO BE OFFERING NEW HAMPSHIRE AN OLIVE BRANCH AFTER DISMISSING ITS PRIMARY IN JANUARY.

CAN HE WIN BACK GRANITE STATE DEMOCRATS WHO MAY FEEL LEFT BEHIND BY THE PARTY?

AND IT’S SUNSHINE WEEK DEDICATED TO GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY.

HOW DOES MASSACHUSETTS MEASURE UP?

I WILL TALK TO ADVOCATES WHO ARGUE THERE’S A LONG WAY TO GO.

HAITIAN PRIME MINISTER ANNOUNCED HIS RESIGNATION TODAY FROM EXILE IN PUERTO RICO, GIVING INTO THE GANG VIOLENCE THAT KEPT HIM FROM RETURNING HOME.

THIS IS THE LATEST DEVELOPMENT IN DECADES OF CHAOS AND INSTABILITY IN THAT COUNTRY INCLUDING MULTIPLE VIOLENT COUPS, AMERICAN MILITARY INVOLVEMENT, THE CATASTROPHIC 2010 EARTHQUAKE AND THE ASSASSINATION OF THE PRESIDENT IN 2021.

IN THAT TIME, HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE HAVE LEFT HAITI FOR THE BOSTON AREA.

CONGRESSWOMAN AYANNA PRESSLEY WHO REPRESENTS MANY OF THOSE TRANSPLANTS JOINS ME NOW.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

WE APPRECIATE IT.

WE SPOKE EARLIER THIS WEEK WITH THE HEAD OF THE IMMIGRATION FAMILY SERVICES INSTITUTE IN MATTAPAN.

SHE MADE THE CASE THAT THE U.S. SHOULD BE DOING MORE TO STABILIZE THE SITUATION IN HAITI.

LET’S TAKE A LOOK AT HOW SHE PUT IT.

>> EVERYONE IN HAITI RIGHT NOW’S LIVES ARE IN DANGER.

EVERYONE IS SO WORRIED AND CONCERNED.

WE ARE CALLING FOR A SENSE OF URGENCY FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO DO SOMETHING.

TO AT LEAST PROTECT LIVES.

RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE DEAD IN THE STREET.

NOBODY CAN EVEN GO TO REMOVE THEM FROM THE STREET.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO ALL THE PLEAS OF THE HAITIAN COMMUNITY TELLING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO STOP PROPPING UP A GOVERNMENT THAT IS NOT FOR THE COUNTRY.

ADAM: CONGRESSWOMAN, ARE THERE THINGS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION COULD BE DOING THAT IT ISN’T TO HELP STABILIZE THE SITUATION IN HAITI RIGHT NOW?

>> FIRST I WANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE EXTRAORDINARY WORK OF THE ORGANIZATION THAT HAS BEEN STANDING IN THE GAP WHEN IT COMES TO THE MANY LAYERED CRISES THE PEOPLE OF HAITI HAVE BEEN NAVIGATING, ESPECIALLY THE NEW ARRIVALS.

I’M VERY PROUD TO REPRESENT THE THIRD LARGEST HAITIAN DIASPORA IN THE MASSACHUSETTS SEVENTH AND I COCHAIR THE HOUSE HAITI CAUCUS.

WORKING ALONGSIDE MY COCHAIRS OF FLORIDA AND NEW YORK RESPECTIVELY, WE HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THE PRIME MINISTER TO STEP DOWN.

WE ARE ENCOURAGED BY THAT STEP.

IT’S LONG OVERDUE.

ALSO BY THE CONFIRMATION OF A NEW AMBASSADOR WHICH JUST HAPPENED IMMEDIATELY.

ALSO CONTINUE TO ADVOCATE FOR THE REDESIGNATION OF HAITI AND HALTING ALL DEPORTATIONS.

WE SHOULD NOT BE SENDING ANYONE THERE AND DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP THE TRAFFICKING OF ARMS, OF GUNS TO HAITI.

THOSE GUNS ARE MADE HERE IN THE U.S., THEY ARE BEING TRAFFICKED AND SMUGGLED TO HAITI WHICH HAS CONTRIBUTED TO THIS LAYERED CRISIS OF ECONOMIC DEVASTATION, POLITICAL INSTABILITY AND GROWING VIOLENCE.

JUST WHEN WE THINK THE SITUATION COULD NOT GET MORE DIRE, IT GETS MORE DIRE WITH EACH PASSING DAY.

THE ASSASSINATION OF THE PRESIDENT, A SEVEN .5 LEVEL MAGNITUDE EARTHQUAKE, HURRICANES.

HAITI HAS BEEN DIGGING OUT THESE LAYERED CRISES FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

IT’S CRITICAL THAT WE ARE GETTING HUMANITARIAN AID INTO HAITI AND MAKING INVESTMENTS THAT WILL SUPPORT ECONOMIC AND DEMOCRATIC INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND WE HAVE TO REALLY MAKE SURE THAT THE RECOVERY OF HAITI, AND IT WILL HAPPEN, IS ONE THAT IS LED BY CIVIL SOCIETY, THAT IS HAITIAN LED AND THE TRADITIONAL GOVERNMENT IS ONE THAT IS REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE.

ADAM: DR. GABO DESCRIBED THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION PROPPING UP THE NOW COMPLETED ADMINISTRATION.

IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT THAT WE HAVE BEEN PROPPING HIM UP?

>> IN MY OPINION, WHAT IS FAIR IS THAT HAITI HAS NOT BEEN A PRIORITY AND THERE ARE MANY WAYS IN WHICH U.S. FOREIGN POLICY WHETHER YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAS CONTRIBUTED TO A HUMANITARIAN CRISIS WITH OUR IMMIGRATION CRISIS, A U.S. FOREIGN POLICY ROOTED IN COLONIALISM HAS IN MANY WAYS SUPPORTED THE DESTABILIZATION OF COUNTRIES, RESULTING IN THEM FLEEING AND COMING HERE.

FORTUNATELY WE ARE AT COMMONWEALTH THAT IS A SAFE HAVEN, THAT HAS A RIGHT TO SHELTER, AND NIMBLE, INNOVATIVE, HUMANE LEADERS THAT HAVE BEEN VERY CREATIVE AND MAKING SURE WE CAN RECEIVE THOSE MIGRANTS WHEN THEY COME HERE AND CENTER THEIR HUMANITY AND DIGNITY.

HOWEVER, IF WE REALLY WANT TO STOP THE FLOW OF NEW ARRIVALS, THEN WE HAVE TO GET TO THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM AND THAT DOES HAVE EVERYTHING TO DO WITH A U.S. FOREIGN POLICY.

WHAT WE HAVE TO FOCUS ON RIGHT NOW IS MAKING HAITI A PRIORITY AND WE HAVE TO SAVE LIVES.

THEY ARE STILL HAPPENING.

WE HAVE TO REDESIGNATE TPS STATUS FOR HAITI.

WE HAVE TO STOP THE TRAFFICKING AND SMUGGLING OF ARMS TO HAITI BECAUSE THAT’S HOW THE GANGS ARE ABLE TO EXACT AND PERPETRATE SO MUCH VIOLENCE TO THE PEOPLE.

ADAM: I CANNOT IMAGINE BEING SOMEWHERE ELSE AND BEING SENT BACK THERE RIGHT NOW GIVEN THE SCENES WE ARE SEEING UNFOLD.

>> TO SEND ANYONE BACK TO HAITI IS NOTHING SHORT OF A DEATH SENTENCE.

SO ALL DEPORTATIONS MUST BE HALTED.

ADAM: I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A BIG VOTE THAT WAS TAKEN IN THE HOUSE THIS PAST WEEK, A PROPOSED BAN ON TIKTOK WAS OVERWHELMINGLY PASSED.

YOU WERE A NO VOTE.

WHY DID YOU THINK THIS PROPOSAL TO BAN TIKTOK WAS THE WRONG WAY TO GO?

>> I VOTED NO ALTHOUGH I CERTAINLY AGREE WE NEED TO TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION TO ENACT GREATER OVERSIGHT OVER BIG TECH AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

I HAVE DONE A LOT OF WORK IN THAT SPACE TO SPEAK TO THE HARASSMENT AND THE MANY WAYS IN WHICH IT CONTRIBUTES TO MENTAL HEALTH CHALLENGES, ESPECIALLY FOR OUR YOUNG GIRLS AND CHILDREN.

WE NEED SOMETHING MORE COMPREHENSIVE.

WE SHOULD NOT BE TARGETING TIKTOK.

I THINK THE BILL THAT CAME BEFORE THE HOUSE IS REALLY THE WRONG APPROACH.

I DO HAVE CONCERNS AROUND PRIVACY AND DATA HARVESTING, BUT THOSE CONCERNS ARE NOT UNIQUE TO TIKTOK.

THIS IS REALLY ABOUT BIG TECH AND SOCIAL MEDIA PERIOD.

RATHER THAN TARGETING ONE COMPANY, WE NEED COMPREHENSIVE DATA PRIVACY LEGISLATION.

ADAM: WHAT ARE THE PROSPECTS OF SOME TYPE OF LEGISLATION BEING PASSED THROUGH CONGRESS?

IT SEEMS LIKE IT’S VERY TOUGH TO MAKE ANYTHING BIPARTISAN HAPPEN.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD OCCUR IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS?

>> I WOULDN’T BE IN CONGRESS IF I DIDN’T HAVE AN OPTIMISM BIAS.

THAT DOES GIVE ME SOME HOPE THAT FALL ON -- THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT FALL ON MANY LEVELS OF THE SPECTRUM THAT CAN ADDRESS THE WAYS SOCIAL MEDIA CAN BE HARMFUL AND RECOGNIZE THE POWERFUL ROLE IT PLAYS AS A NEW SOURCE, IN SUPPORTING SMALL BUSINESS AND HAVE THOSE CONCERNS AROUND NATIONAL SECURITY, PRIVACY AND DATA HARVESTING.

I THINK ENOUGH OF US SHARE THE SAME CONCERNS AND ALSO WANT TO SUPPORT THE WAYS IT IS POSITIVE AND DOES WORK THAT I THINK WE COULD GET THERE.

ADAM: I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO GET YOUR TAKE ON GOVERNOR HEALY’S PLAN TO PARDON MISDEMEANOR MARIJUANA CONVICTIONS IN MASSACHUSETTS, WHICH STILL HAS TO GET SIGNOFF FROM THE GOVERNOR’S COUNSEL.

SHOULD THEY GO ALONG WITH HER PLAN?

>> YES.

I WANT TO COMMEND GOVERNOR HEALY AS I DID PRESIDENT BIDEN WITH THE PARDONING.

THIS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO UNDO THE CRIMINALIZATION OF CANNABIS AND THERE ARE MANY MORE THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN FEDERALLY.

I HAVE A BILL CALLED THE FIXED CLEMENCY ACT TO ADDRESS PEOPLE WHOSE LIVES ARE IN LIMBO BECAUSE OF CANNABIS CONVICTIONS.

ALSO THE MORE ACT WHICH WOULD LEGALIZE CANNABIS AND EXPUNGE RECORDS FOR THOSE THAT WERE HARMED BY THIS WAR ON DRUGS.

AND UNJUSTLY CRIMINALIZED FOR NOW WHAT IS A MULTIBILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY.

SO I APPRECIATE GOVERNOR HEALY’S LEADERSHIP ON THIS AND THAT’S GOING TO GO ALONG WAY IN SUPPORTING THOSE THAT WERE ADVERSELY IMPACTED AND THRIVING AND SUCCESSFULLY BEING GAINFULLY EMPLOYED IN MAKING A POSITIVE CONTRIBUTION.

I COME INTO THE GOVERNOR AND PRESIDENT BIDEN ON THAT STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION WHEN IT COMES TO THOSE PARDONS, BUT WE HAVE MORE WORK TO DO.

ADAM: WHAT ARE THE PROSPECTS OF SOME OF THE LEGISLATION THAT YOU HAVE FILED?

IS THERE BIPARTISAN INTEREST IN THIS TOPIC?

>> THE MORE ACT DID PASS THE HOUSE BUT WAS STOPPED IN THE SENATE.

BY BILL THE FIXED CLEMENCY ACT WHICH WAS INTRODUCED IN PARTNERSHIP WITH HAKEEM JEFFRIES AND CORI BUSH IS GAINING TRACTION.

I HAVE SEEN INTEREST ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

ESPECIALLY AROUND ISSUES RELATED TO CANNABIS JUSTICE.

THAT DOES SURPRISE SOME PEOPLE, BUT THERE IS BIPARTISAN INTEREST THERE.

I’M GOING TO DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE SURE WE GET THAT GAVEL BACK IN THE HOUSE.

THAT HAKEEM JEFFRIES IS THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE AND I’M GOING TO CONTINUE TO WORK TO EXPAND OUR MAJORITY IN THE SENATE AND ABOLISH THE FILIBUSTER.

ADAM: CONGRESSWOMAN AYANNA PRESSLEY, THANK YOU.

TWO YEARS SINCE HIS LAST VISIT IN A FEW WEEKS AFTER HE GAVE THE STATES FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY THE COLD SHOULDER, PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN MET WITH SUPPORTERS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

HE GOT A WARM WELCOME EVEN FROM SOME OF THE LOCAL POLITICIANS WHO CRITICIZED HIM OVER HIS COURSE -- CHOICE TO DOWNGRADE PRIMARY STATUS.

POLITICO’S LISA KASHINSKY JOINS ME NOW.

YOU WERE THERE WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN ROLLED INTO NEW HAMPSHIRE.

WHAT’S THE RIGHT WAY TO CHARACTERIZE HIS APPEARANCE?

WAS IT AN APOLOGY?

WAS IT A PEACE OFFERING?

WAS IT SOMETHING ELSE?

>> IT WAS OFFICIALLY A FOLLOW-UP TO THE STATE OF THE UNION, A LITTLE BIT OF BATTLEGROUND STATE VISITS HE’S BEEN DOING THROUGHOUT THE PAST WEEK.

THAT WAS WHAT IT WAS OFFICIALLY.

UNOFFICIALLY IT WAS A WAY TO MEND FENCES WITH DEMOCRATS WHO REALLY STEPPED UP FOR HIM IN A STATE THAT HE COMPLETELY SHUNNED IN THE PRIMARY PROCESS.

ADAM: AND THAT WERE ALSO TICKED OFF THAT HE TRIED TO DEMOTE NEW HAMPSHIRE AND THEN DIDN’T COME TO THE STATE AT ALL DURING THE PRIMARY.

>> DIDN’T SET FOOT.

NO ADS, NO NOTHING.

AND HIS ALLIES NO MATTER HOW UPSET THEY WERE AND VERY PUBLICLY SO, THEY HAD BERATED HIM PUBLICLY FOR TRYING TO REORDER THE PRIMARY, THEY STILL STEPPED UP AND DID A WRITING CAMPAIGN FOR HIM THAT WAS SUCCESSFUL.

THIS WAS HIS WAY OF SAYING I WILL PRIORITIZE NEW HAMPSHIRE IN THE GENERAL ELECTION.

ADAM: WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF VIDEO THAT A REPORTER GOT, A PRIVATE CAMPAIGN EVENT IN WHICH JOE BIDEN EXPRESSES SOME OF THE GRATITUDE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> HEY FOLKS.

THANKS AN AWFUL LOT.

I CAN’T TELL YOU HOW MUCH I APPRECIATE YOU.

IT STUNNED ME THE RIGHT IN CAMPAIGN.

IT REALLY DID.

I WAS PRETTY TERRIBLE NOT TO BE HERE.

ADAM: THE LAUGHTER SUGGESTS MAY BE NERVOUSNESS BUT ALSO WILLINGNESS TO MOVE ON FROM THIS EPISODE.

IS THAT THE EVENT WHERE BIDEN SUGGESTED THAT NEW HAMPSHIRE MIGHT BE ABLE TO KEEP ITS DELEGATES?

>> THAT IS WHERE HE SAID HE EXPECTS.

HE WAS VERY CAREFUL NOT TO GET OF THE DNC’S PROCESS WHICH WILL DISCUSS NEXT WEEK WHETHER TO COUNT NEW HAMPSHIRE’S DELEGATES FROM WHAT WAS AN UNSANCTIONED PRIMARY.

THE PRESIDENT SAYS HE EXPECTS THOSE DELEGATES WILL BE SEATED THIS SUMMER.

HE DOESN’T ACTUALLY NEED THEM TO BECOME THE NOMINEE.

HE’S ALREADY THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE.

BUT IT IS KIND OF THAT OLIVE BRANCH TO MAKE SURE THIS HAPPENS.

ADAM: I WOULD THINK THAT IF THE PRESIDENT SAYS -- I’M THINKING THIS SCENARIO COULD PLAY OUT, THE DNC IS PROBABLY GOING TO FOLLOW HIS LEAD.

>> ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THEY FOLLOWED HIS LEAD IN CHANGING THE PRIMARY CALENDAR IN THE FIRST PLACE, PRESS OF -- PLUS A VERY KEY ALLY OF HIS, JIM CLYBURN, CAME OUT AND SAID FIND A WAY TO SEEK THE DELEGATES.

ADAM: I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE BECAUSE WE ARE EXPECTING THIS TO BE A VERY CLOSE ELECTION.

NEW HAMPSHIRE RIGHT NOW BASED ON A POLL OF REGISTERED VOTERS LOOKS TO BE RELATIVELY SECURE FOR BIDEN.

HE HAD 52% SUPPORT COMPARED TO 45% FOR DONALD TRUMP.

HOW IMPORTANT DO YOU THINK THIS CHARM OFFENSIVE/MENDING FENCES EXERCISE IS WHEN IT COMES TO BIDEN KEEPING THIS AS A LIKELY WIND FOR HIM?

>> IT’S VERY IMPORTANT.

EVEN IF HE WON THE STATE BY EIGHT POINTS IN 2020 OVER TRUMP, HE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE NEW HAMPSHIRE’S FOUR ELECTORAL VOTES THIS FALL IN WHAT COULD BE AN INCREDIBLY CLOSE RACE IN THE POLLS.

OTHER STATES SHOW HIM NOT IN AS GREAT OF A POSITION AS HE IS IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

WHILE THE STATE MAY BE SAFER FOR HIM THAN OTHER BATTLEGROUND STATES, HE CANNOT AFFORD TO LOSE IT.

ADAM: PRESIDENT TRUMP GOT A BOOST FROM CHRIS SUNUNU.

ANNOUNCED THAT HE WAS ENDORSING HIM AND WOULD CAMPAIGN WITH HIM.

WERE YOU SURPRISED THAT HE CHANGED HIS TUNE ON TRUMP?

>> IT’S NOT A TOTAL CHANGE OF TUNE.

CHRIS SUNUNU HAD BEEN SAYING FOR MONTHS AND HE WAS THE BIGGEST BACKER THAT NIKKI HALEY HAD WITH ANYONE WHO ENDORSED HER, PARTICULARLY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

EVEN WHILE CAMPAIGNING FOR HER, HE WOULD GET ASKED ON CNN AND BY ANY REPORTER WHETHER HE WOULD SUPPORT THE PARTY’S NOMINEE NO MATTER WHO IT WAS.

HE WOULD SAY HE WOULD SUPPORT THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE.

HE WOULDN’T SAY DONALD TRUMP’S NAME AND HE WOULD TRY TO SAY THAT TRUMP WOULDN’T BE THE NOMINEE.

BUT TRUMP IS NOW THE PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE, SO HE IS FOLLOWING THAT PATTERN AND NOW HE HAS JUST ATTACHED DONALD TRUMP’S NAME TO IT.

ADAM: I’M GLAD YOU MENTIONED IT.

HE HAD A LOT OF MEMORABLE LINES INVOLVING TRUMP INCLUDING A HOLES COME AND GO, THAT HE IS HERE TO STAY.

DO YOU THINK THAT TRUMP IS GOING TO TAKE UP SUNUNU ON HIS APPARENT WILLINGNESS TO CAMPAIGN WITH HIM IN NEW HAMPSHIRE?

>> THAT IS A TOUGH QUESTION.

JUST AS MUCH AS CHRIS SUNUNU HAS CRITICIZED DONALD TRUMP, HE HAS FIRED RIGHT BACK.

SEEING THEM TOGETHER WOULD REALLY BE SOMETHING.

ADAM: THAT’S AN EVENT THAT I’M HOPING MATERIALIZES BECAUSE IT WOULD BE SO PROFOUNDLY AWKWARD.

LISA KASHINSKY, THANKS FOR COVERING THIS STUFF.

FINALLY TONIGHT, IT IS SUNSHINE WEEK.

STARTED BY A GROUP OF NEWSPAPER EDITORS IN FLORIDA, SUNSHINE WEEK HIGHLIGHTS THE IMPORTANCE OF OPEN RECORDS ON GOVERNMENT TRANSPARENCY.

THAT IS SOMETHING WE COULD USE A LOT MORE OF HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

ACCORDING TO THE PROGRESSIVE NONPROFIT ACT ON MASS, 2023 WAS A BAD YEAR FOR GOOD GOVERNANCE ON BEACON HILL.

ACT ON MASS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR ERIN LEAHY JOINS ME NOW ALONG WITH JUSTIN SILVERMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR DIRECTOR OF THE NEW ENGLAND FIRST AMENDMENT COALITION.

LET ME ASK YOU WHY YOU CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT 2023 WAS A BAD YEAR FOR GOOD GOVERNANCE HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS.

>> WE ALREADY HAVE A PRETTY BAD REPUTATION AS BEING ONE OF THE LEAST TRANSPARENT LEGISLATURES IN THE COUNTRY.

2023 WAS KIND OF A BANNER YEAR FOR THAT.

JUST IN FEBRUARY, WE SAW THE SENATE PRESIDENT ELIMINATE HER TERM LIMITS.

WE SAW THE HOUSE DISMISSED AN AMENDMENT THAT WOULD HAVE MADE COMMITTEE VOTES PUBLIC WITHOUT EVEN HAVING A PUBLIC VOTE.

WE ARE ALSO SEEING THE LEGISLATURE TAKE FEWER AND FEWER ROLL CALL VOTES ON THE RECORD COMPARED TO PREVIOUS YEARS.

ADAM: WHEN THEY DO THAT, WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS OF TAKING ROLL CALL VOTES THAT ARE NOT RECORDED THAT THE PUBLIC IS NOT PRIVY TO?

OR NOT TAKING ROLL CALL VOTES.

WHAT ARE THE IMPLICATIONS POLICY WISE?

>> THEY ARE TAKING FEWER ROLL CALL VOTES WHICH MEANS MORE VOTES OFF THE RECORD AND FEWER VOTES GENERALLY SPEAKING.

THEY ARE ACTUALLY PASSING FEWER BILLS AND HAVING MORE POLICY ITEMS BE BOUND UP IN THE SAME MEGA BILLS.

THAT MEANS WE CAN’T REALLY SEE OUR LEGISLATORS VOTES OR STANCES ON INDIVIDUAL ISSUES NEARLY AS MUCH AS WE SHOULD.

ADAM: THOSE OMNIBUS PIECES OF LEGISLATION.

WE ARE NOT A MODEL STATE WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSPARENCY.

WE ARE THE ONLY STATE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU HAVE THE EXECUTIVE, THE JUDICIARY AND THE LEGISLATURE CLAIMING AN EXEMPTION FROM PUBLIC RECORDS LAWS.

WAS 2023 MORE OF THE SAME?

WAS IT WORSE THAN MOST YEARS TEND TO BE?

OR WAS IT POSSIBLY BETTER YET >> IT WASN’T BETTER.

CERTAINLY PAR FOR THE COURSE.

THOSE MAJOR CONCERNS STILL EXIST.

YOU STILL HAVE THE JUDICIARY AND GOVERNOR AND LEGISLATURE ALL CLAIMING EXEMPTION.

IT MAKES IT HARDER FOR US TO GET INFORMATION.

SO IT’S MORE OF THE SAME.

I WILL SAY THERE IS ONE EXCEPTION AND THAT’S WITH THE OPEN MEETINGS LAW.

WE HAVE SEEN A NUMBER OF SMALL TOWNS USE HYBRID MEETINGS, GIVING HYBRID ACCESS TO THEIR MEETINGS.

MEANING MEETING ONLINE AS WELL AS IN PERSON.

AND REALLY SHOWING THAT THIS IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE DOING STATE LINE.

THERE IS LEGISLATION CURRENTLY BEING CONSIDERED THAT WOULD MAKE THAT A REQUIREMENT AND WE ARE ALREADY SEEING THAT DONE IN A NUMBER OF PLACES THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

ADAM: THAT’S NOT THE DIRECTION GOVERNOR HALEY IS SUGGESTING GOING.

>> THAT’S A MAJOR CONCERN.

SHE HAS A MUNICIPAL EMPOWERMENT ACT.

SHE PROPOSES ALLOWING MUNICIPALITIES TO HAVE FULL DISCRETION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY MEET ONLINE OR IN PERSON AND REALLY THE MOST EQUITABLE WAY TO MOVE FORWARD IS TO PROVIDE BOTH FORMS OF ACCESS TO EVERYONE.

MANY TOWNS AND MUNICIPALITIES ARE ALREADY DOING THIS.

BUT WE NEED TO MAKE IT A CONSISTENT REQUIREMENT THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

ADAM: WHO GETS LEFT OUT IF YOU DON’T TAKE A HYBRID APPROACH?

>> ANYONE WORKING ODD HOURS, HAVE FAMILY COMMITMENTS, MAY NOT BE ABLE TO TRAVEL.

THERE’S LARGE COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE STATE THAT SIMPLY CAN’T MEET IN PERSON OR MUST MEET IN PERSON TO GET THAT KIND OF FACE-TO-FACE TIME THAT IS SO IMPORTANT TO HAVE WITH YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.

ADAM: I WANT TO GET BACK TO THE QUESTION OF PRACTICAL CONSEQUENCES.

WHEN WE TALKED EARLIER, YOU SUGGESTED THERE ARE CERTAIN PIECES OF LEGISLATION THAT WOULD PASS IF WE WERE MORE TRANSPARENT HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, THAT HAVE BEEN LANGUISHING.

WHAT ARE THEY?

>> ONE EXAMPLE I BRING UP ALL THE TIME IS THE HEALTHY YOUTH ACT.

FOR THE FIFTH TIME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THIS IS A BILL THAT WOULD REQUIRE SCHOOLS THAT ALREADY TEACH SEX ED THAT THE SEX ED THEY TEACH IT BE MEDICALLY ACCURATE AND LGBTQIA INCLUSIVE.

THIS BILL IS REALLY POPULAR.

WE KNOW PEOPLE SUPPORT CONSENT ORIENTED MEDICALLY ACCURATE SEX ED IN THIS STATE, BUT IT KEEPS BEING HELD UP SPECIFICALLY IN THE HOUSE WHERE JUST A FEW PEOPLE HAVE DISPROPORTIONATE POWER OVER WHAT PASSES.

ADAM: ARE YOU CONFIDENT THAT IF IT WERE JUST A SIMPLE QUESTION OF ARE THE VOTES THERE, THEY WOULD BE THERE.

>> 100%.

ADAM: ANY OTHER PIECE OF LEGISLATION FOR THAT BILL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

A BILL THAT WOULD PREVENT WAGE THEFT, WHICH IS ALREADY ILLEGAL.

THAT’S WHEN BUSINESS OWNERS CAN WITHHOLD TIPS FROM THEIR EMPLOYEES OR DON’T PAY THEM ADEQUATELY FOR THE HOURS THEY WORK.

ADAM: I FEEL LIKE I HAVE BEEN HEARING ABOUT THAT PIECE OF LEGISLATION FOREVER.

>> THAT BILL HAS A MAJORITY OF LEGISLATORS AS COSPONSORS.

IN THEORY THAT SHOULD PASS WITH FLYING COLORS.

BUT IT’S NEVER EVEN COME TO A VOTE IN THE HOUSE NEVER MIND PASS.

ADAM: YOU WROTE A PIECE FOR SUNSHINE WEEK TALKING ABOUT THE WAY SOME OF THESE ISSUES ARE PLAYING OUT NOT JUST IN MASSACHUSETTS BUT SOME OTHER STATES AS WELL.

WHAT ARE SOME STATES THAT PEOPLE SHOULD PAY ATTENTION TO, EITHER WHERE TRANSPARENCY IS ACCOMPLISHING GOOD THINGS OR WHERE A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY IS POSING BIG PROBLEMS?

>> THE SHORT ANSWER IS ALL STATES EVERYWHERE, OPEN GOVERNMENT, THESE TYPE OF TRANSPARENCY ISSUES AFFECT ALL OF US.

UNFORTUNATELY THE CHALLENGE IS JUST REMEMBERING THAT GOVERNMENT IS WORKING USUALLY BEHIND CLOSED DOORS AND MAKING DECISIONS THAT ARE PROFOUNDLY IMPORTANT IN OUR LIVES.

MOST OF US ARE BUSY GETTING TO WORK ON TIME, DOING HOUSEHOLD CHORES.

WE ARE NOT THINKING ABOUT GOVERNMENTS INVOLVEMENT IN OUR LIVES LIKE THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC, WHEN GOVERNMENT DECISIONS WERE AFFECTING OUR KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL OR BUSINESS IS CLOSING AND SO FORTH.

WE NEED TO REMEMBER GOVERNMENT IS AFFECTING OUR LIVES DESPITE NOT DOING IT IN THE OPEN AND WE NEED THESE KINDS OF TRANSPARENCY LAWS TO TELL US IMPORTANT THINGS ABOUT WHAT GOVERNMENT IS DOING.

THE FIRST STATE THAT COMES TO MIND OUTSIDE MASSACHUSETTS IS RHODE ISLAND.

THEY ARE DEALING WITH A MAJOR TRANSPORTATION HEADACHE WITH THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE REBUILT OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL YEARS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF REALLY IMPORTANT QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW DID THE BRIDGE GET TO THE STATE THAT IT’S IN, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE.

ADAM: THAT’S A BASIC FUNCTION OF GOVERNMENT.

>> YES.

ADAM: THE GOVERNOR IS CHARGING A BUNCH OF MONEY WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO GET PUBLIC RECORDS INVOLVING THE BRIDGE.

>> NEWS ORGANIZATIONS TRIED TO GET RECORDS GOING BACK TO THE MOST RECENT INSPECTIONS OF THE BRIDGE AND THEY WERE CHARGED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FOR THESE RECORDS.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID UNDER THAT PUBLIC RECORDS LAW, YOU CAN BE CHARGED THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE AND IN THE INTEREST OF TRANSPARENCY YOU SHOULDN’T BE, BUT IT’S ANOTHER REMINDER OF THE NEED FOR THESE KIND OF STRONG PUBLIC RECORD LAWS.

ADAM: THERE IS A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT ACT ON MASS IS SUPPORTING.

THEY COULD CHANGE THE WAY THIS ALL PLAYS OUT ON BEACON HILL.

CAN YOU DESCRIBE THIS LEGISLATION?

>> IT IS CALLED THE SUNLIGHT ACT.

IT WOULD MAKE COMMITTEE VOTES PUBLIC WHICH IS NOT THE CASE IN THE LEGISLATURE NOW.

IT WOULD MAKE WRITTEN TESTIMONIES PUBLICLY AVAILABLE.

IT WOULD MAKE COMMITTEE HEARINGS SCHEDULED AT LEAST A WEEK IN ADVANCE TO GIVE PEOPLE MORE TIME TO ACCESS THEIR GOVERNMENT AND GIVE INPUT.

IT WOULD ALSO SUGGEST THE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE TO PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.

ADAM: IS THAT LIKELY TO PASS?

GIVEN THE LEGISLATURE SAYS THEY ARE EXEMPT FROM PUBLIC RECORDS LAW, I WOULD THINK THEY WOULD BE LEERY OF SAYING THE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE IS SUBJECTED TO PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.

WHAT ARE THE PROSPECTS OF PASSING?

>> THE SENATE IS ALREADY ON RECORD IN SUPPORT OF THE FIRST THREE OF THOSE FOUR REFORMS.

IT’S CURRENTLY IN THE SENATE WHICH MEANS I THINK IT HAS DECENT PROSPECTS OF PASSING.

IT COULD BE A LITTLE BIT THORNIER FOR THE GOVERNOR.

GIVEN THAT WE ARE ONE OF ONLY TWO STATES THAT DOESN’T ALREADY SUBJECT THE GOVERNOR’S OFFICE TO PUBLIC RECORDS LAW, THERE IS A STRONG CASE TO BE MADE THAT WE SHOULD.

ADAM: ERIN LEAHY AND JUSTIN SILVERMAN, THANK YOU BOTH.

THAT’S IT FOR TONIGHT BUT COME BACK NEXT WEEK AND LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

TALKING POLITICS AT CHUBBY BGH -- AT WGBH.ORG.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT.

♪