- [David] Online sports betting is officially live in North Carolina.

We break down the opportunities and concerns surrounding this new law and what it all means for you.

This is "State Lines".

- [Announcer] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.

[bright upbeat music] ♪ - Welcome to a "State Lines" special on sports betting, I'm David Hurst.

As of this past Monday, March 11th, you can now bet on sports from your phone right here in North Carolina.

Let's take a look at how we got here and the impact it could have on our state.

- I already know who's winning the March Madness tournament, so if you wanna go ahead and lock your pick in.

- [David] For sports fans like Jason Schmitt and Chris Dambro- - It's worth it.

- [David] Online sports betting is coming live just at the right time.

- I think it's perfect timing.

March Madness, everybody's gonna be watching something.

- He went and pushed the guy too.

Did you see that?

- [David] They say it's going to make this year's tournament even more interesting.

- Now we don't have to just rely on the bracket pools, we can bet game by game, which is even more exciting.

So those 16 seed versus a one seed, you can finally bet on that win and maybe make bank.

- The leading scorer for your team right now.

- [David] The two friends are no strangers to sports betting.

They each have done it when visiting other cities and states where it's legal.

- You get a little bit of skin in the game, you get more buy-in and you know, we're emotional about our money, so anytime money's involved, ups the ante a little bit for any viewing experience.

- [David] States began legalizing sports betting in 2018 when the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a federal ban on sports betting.

In North Carolina, state lawmakers passed legislation to legalize online sports betting in June of 2023.

Governor Cooper signed the bill into law the following week.

The law gave the North Carolina Lottery Commission one year to set up rules around sports betting.

Online sports betting went live at noon on March 11th with horse racing and in-person sports books become available at a later date.

Bettors can choose to make bets on at least eight betting sites.

As of March 11th, these operators have been approved for licenses by the North Carolina Lottery Commission.

- State of North Carolina's home to a number of professional sports franchises.

It is the capital of NASCAR.

It is the capital, frankly, of college basketball as well.

We've seen tremendous engagement from the state already.

We fully expect for this to be a state that sets a new bar in terms of fan engagement and player engagement.

- [David] The operators will be responsible for giving 18% of their gambling revenue to the state.

North Carolina is expected to receive about $130 million in tax revenue in their first year.

That money will go toward the Department of Health and Human Services for gambling addiction education and treatment programs, North Carolina Amateur Sports, 13 public universities, the North Carolina Outdoor Heritage Advisory Council, A major events fund to help bring sporting events and festivals to the state and the state's General Fund.

- It allows fully regulated gaming, which includes player protection and deposit verification, all those things that mandated by the state and importantly North Carolina tax revenue to be generated on those customers who might be betting on other sites that frankly don't offer any type of tax or player protection.

- [Commentator] Now Shay's got a step.

Shay!

- [David] The new sports betting law passed with bipartisan support but the opposition is also bipartisan.

- Unfortunately, it's gonna call into question, you know, drop passes and miss shots and bad calls by the referees, which we all like to scream about.

But it's gonna draw into question if those things are motivated by sports gambling and somebody positioning themselves to get a large payout by throwing a game.

And I hate to be cynical and raise that kind of issue, but it's a real effect and impact.

- [David] Those against the new sports gambling law are concerned that increasing access to sports betting will lead to more gambling addictions.

- And that's really the human cost of gambling and gambling addiction.

And with the onset or launch of sports gambling in North Carolina this week, it's very clear and the full expectation is that we're gonna be seeing a lot more gambling addiction and gambling addiction related problems in our state.

- Well, what was the score for the first game we went to?

- [David] For Jason Schmitt and Chris Dambro, they understand the risks of gambling and have limits in place.

- Definitely setting limits.

You know, usually, you take some just from the paycheck, put it aside and don't go over that.

- I approach it where I started with a set amount of money and I can only add more money into that account a certain amount per year.

And so if I'm just gonna go and blow it all on one game and I lose, that's on me.

- [Commentator] Counted.

- The new law also allows eight sports venues in North Carolina to operate in person sports books.

One of those sites is PNC Arena, home to the Carolina Hurricanes.

We sat down with hurricane's general manager and President Don Waddell about what this law will mean for the Hurricanes and this site for years to come.

Getting ready to host another sellout crowd, Carolina Hurricane's general manager, Don Waddell, is always thinking about the fan experience.

- I think it's a win-win for everybody.

- [Commentator] Gets it to Barnes.

Oh, game over.

- [David] With sports betting now legal in North Carolina, he wants fans at PNC Arena to be able to take advantage if they want.

- It's like going to the concession stand to get something to eat.

You know, maybe during a game between periods, they may wanna go place a wager on something that's gonna happen in a hockey game or a basketball game.

- [David] The hurricane's official sports betting partner is Fanatics Betting and Gaming.

- Launching on the horizon of March Madness, but then also it's a very exciting year for the Carolina Hurricanes as well.

You couldn't pick a better market for a company like ours to go live in.

- Waddell says it's a partnership that made sense with Fanatics already partnering with the Canes on licensing apparel.

- Certainly, they're not one of the big players yet in the gambling space but they are putting all their resources and their planning and strategy toward building up the gaming industry.

So we thought it was a good partner for us and that's why we chose them.

- [David] Fanatics Betting and Gaming will work with the Hurricanes to bring in in-person retail sports book to the PNC Arena.

The sports book will likely look similar to what Fanatics has opened in Nationwide Arena, home to the Columbus Blue Jackets.

The retail sports book will be part of the plan to make upgrades in and around PNC Arena, which includes restaurants.

and a potential sports and entertainment district.

Right now, the only retail sports books operating in North Carolina are at the three tribal casinos.

Along with PNC Arena, the new sports betting law allows in-person sports betting at seven other professional sports venues.

Timelines have not been announced for when these sports books may open, but Don Waddell says PNC Arena Sports Book will likely open in time for the next hurricane season.

- We've talked about, we just bought the backyard bistro across the street, and we talked about putting it there, but with that many people, you know, we put a couple million people through this building each year, we just felt there was more important to put the cage in the kiosks here in the arena.

- [Narrator] In the meantime, fanatics says fans can expect a smooth experience placing bets from their phone.

- And so if you look at an average customer's phone in the state of North Carolina, they've got Uber and Airbnb and Spotify, these 21st century brands and apps and products.

And so in addition to doing all the other basic stuff well, we want to make sure that our app, irrespective of skill level, is commensurate with the other apps that customers use in their day-to-day lives.

- [Narrator] An important part of the process for both partners is emphasizing responsible gaming.

- So being able to set up limits, whether that be deposit limits, spending limit, time limit based on day, week, month.

We wanna make sure we're excelling and pushing the envelope of innovation when it comes to responsible gaming.

- Certainly the messaging's gonna be very strong that, you know, responsible gambling is very important to all of us and should be important to the community.

- [Narrator] All in an effort to improve fan experience, which Waddell says he hopes will lead to even more sellout crowds.

- You know, it's just like other things that have happened here.

You know, when the lottery first came into North Carolina, you know, everybody thought it was gonna cause this big problem and you know, it's worked out pretty well for where the money's going for education.

So I think this is just gonna be another enhancement to not only help the state, but again improve our fan experience.

- And now not everyone is in favor of this new law.

Opponents of sports betting say this could bring about some negative consequences, one of those being problem gambling.

The state is responding by allocating a portion of the revenue from sports betting to resources around education and treatment.

We spoke with Kelly Crosby, with the North Carolina Department of Health and Human Services about their plan to curb problem gambling.

And we're here talking about the idea of problem gambling.

Can you first define to us what problem gambling is?

- Yeah, so gambling in and of itself is an inherently risky behavior, which is why it's regulated.

But people can gamble and have a fun time.

But problem gambling is when it really starts to affect your life in significant ways.

So you start to lose control of it and your spending, it starts to affect your emotions, it starts to affect your relationships and your daily life activities, and that's when you know it's creating a problem in your life.

- Are there certain demographics or communities that are most at risk of problem gambling?

- Yeah, so gambling and problem gambling can affect all populations, but there are... Just like with other addictions, because problem gambling can be an addiction, we know that some people are biologically predisposed.

It means their brain reacts to certain ways, like if they get ahead of dopamine when they win big.

So some folks are pre-dispositioned to being more affected by those reactions.

If you grew up in a culture where you were very early on exposed to gambling, right, if it was just part of the culture of your family that people gambled, you're more susceptible to starting gambling yourself.

Young people are more susceptible to gambling, so their minds are very elastic.

They're learning, they're very affected by that hit of joy or dopamine when they win something, males are actually at higher risk.

People who are using alcohol are actually at higher risk for developing problem gambling behaviors.

Gambling affects about 5% of the adult population and about 10% of the youth and adolescent population, which is really huge.

And sports betting in particular, it has that monetary component.

So folks are even at higher risk of developing problem gambling behaviors because of that monetary component.

Because when you lose money, you're looking for more money, right?

You wanna make up your loss and you never know when you're gonna win.

But there's actually a belief with sports betting that there's some sort of skill involved.

Like you'll pick the right thing and you know, but it's really...

It's not, it's a chance.

But that notion that there's something you can do about it, you could be really good at it, for example, is really risky.

- What are some red flags or potential indicators people should look out for to avoid falling into problem gambling?

- Yeah, so if you find yourself spending increasing amounts of time gambling as opposed to the other things you would do, so it starts to take over more and more of your life.

You may be spending a lot more money than you realized, you may be chasing a loss.

So that means you lost money and you keep playing until you earn that back or you earn more.

You find yourself emotionally attached to it so you're actually irritable or depressed or down if you're not connected and if you're not gambling.

And the only thing that makes you feel better is to gamble or you have to gamble longer or you have to win and it makes you feel better.

So that shows that you're getting really overly connected.

In more extreme situations, people start to lie about what they're doing.

They try to hide the behavior from their friends or family or their workplaces.

Some people start to borrow money, spend the mortgage money on gambling instead, or borrow their parents' credit card.

So those are some of the more extreme behaviors when you know you really have a problem.

- And you all are getting about $2 million a year of revenue from the sports betting, are there any other programs or resources you wanna share that you're working on that may curb problem gambling?

- A lot of that money will go to just expanding what we already have, right?

We likely will need more education and outreach to colleges, universities, young people.

We will need more clinicians and therapists who are well trained in problem gambling.

We'll need more peers to staff that peer line.

So the things that we're doing are really evidence-based.

They're the things that we know actually work, but now we'll be able to purchase more of those.

I hope that doesn't mean the demand for those goes up, but I think we're predicting that it will unfortunately.

It's just going to be easier to gamble now.

The North Carolina problem gambling line has a 1-800 number.

You can also text morethanagame.nc.gov.

If you go to that website, you actually find the text line, the 24/7 call line, and you can find resources in local communities.

Like I said, we provide lots of resources to high schools, middle schools, to colleges.

We've actually in... Last year, we started partnering with another risk management group who actually uses sports figures, who themselves had problem gambling behavior, sports gambling problems, and they actually go to colleges and universities across the state, letting folks know about the journey, about resources that are available to them.

But resources that are available to all North Carolinians, morethanagame.nc.gov, 24/7 call line.

You can talk to peers, you can get counseling, you can just learn more if you have questions.

And you can find out there too, if you're a community group and you're worried about your school or your community, how you can get grants to do some prevention campaigns and education campaigns in your community.

- Joining me here in studio are two individuals who helped pass the sports betting law.

I'm joined here by Representative Jason Saint of Lincoln County.

Next to him, Senator Paul Lowe of Forsyth County.

Gentlemen, welcome.

- Thanks for having us.

- Hello, thank you.

- Let's talk sports betting.

- Yeah, let's do it.

- Representative Saint, we'll start with you.

You and some of your colleagues have been working to pass this type of legislation for quite some time.

What got it across the finish line, this past session?

- Really just educating members about what it means, the revenue that's leaving our state, that sports betting was already happening.

It was going offshore.

We weren't protecting consumers, we weren't protecting taxpayers here in our state.

By letting them do that, by just encouraging that, by not having it, not letting it be legal or letting them very easily cross over the line into Virginia, Tennessee, or when they traveled, they'd go sports bet.

They were finding ways to do it.

All we said was, hey, let's, one, bring some transparency into it, into the process.

Make sure that our state collects that revenue and we can stop paying for roads in Virginia and Tennessee and elsewhere.

- And Senator Lowe was that a lot of this, this is already going on in our state?

- People are doing that is the exact same thing.

It is already going on.

I was one of those people that said, hey, you know, why let those folks go to Virginia or to South Carolina?

Hey, they can do it right here in our state and we can collect the revenue.

- And what kind of impact Senator Lowe, will that revenue have on an average North Carolinian?

There's a good bit of the revenue going towards our state.

What kind of impact will that have?

- I mean, I can't get down in the weeds and give you the exact numbers, but it will be significant and we need all the resources we can do as it relates to our roads, education, et cetera.

So those are things that we constantly continue to work at when it comes to our education system.

It's never enough.

I mean, that's really the reality of it.

We're always working to do better, and this is just one thing that will help us do a little bit better.

- It's important to remember too, that we're not supplanting anything.

We're shoring up our institutions.

Our HBCUs, their athletic programs, our colleges that are not Carolina and NC State because they're big revenue makers, but you know, UNC Charlotte, where I'm a graduate from, Appalachian, you know, even Elizabeth City State University, are gonna get to share in a part of that revenue and help with their athletic programs.

So that'll be a big shot in the arm to them.

We're also putting money into getting kids outdoors.

If we're gonna make money off sports, let's make sure that kids are really benefiting from it.

We're sending money to every county, so they'll have money to put into their recreation programs.

So we just, we wanna make sure that the state benefits from it.

That is the main thing.

We knew that it was already happening, so let's actually do some good with that money and bring it back to the state.

Of course, the rest will go into our general fund, which helps pay, like Senator Lowe said, pays for things like roads and education and healthcare and so forth.

So it will generate more revenue, I think, for the state, but it'll also generate more economic activity because as you look at the sites that these things will be located at, you know, yeah, you can do it on your phone too, but there's also physical location.

So be, you know, people, there were jobs associated with this.

That's why it became an easier sell once our members in the house and Senate started to understand that this is actually a huge economic impact to the state, more than just the revenue coming off of it.

Everything that will go along with that will matter.

And so I think folks were just, they're ready for it.

And if you've seen all the advertising, if you might have noticed, it means there's a market out there that people are, you know, we've got healthy competition right now.

We've got eight license out there, they're competing for those folks who wanna play.

- There was some opposition though, from some of your colleagues in the house as well as some outside groups saying that this would create addiction gambling, problem gambling.

What's your response to some of those concerns?

- So, one, I think that's a false narrative, just to be quite honest, because it, like, we know if you're an addictive gambler or someone who's wanting to gamble so bad that you can't stop yourself, you're doing it, you're doing it already.

But what we allow with our bill is that we put some transparency on that.

We will actually know, I think that's probably the bigger things that they're afraid that we'll actually know who's now betting and who's not betting.

And then it lessens their argument.

As we look at other states who've already implemented sports betting, they haven't gone to hell in a hand basket.

Those states are still functioning.

Yes, problem gamblers exist.

This gives us a way to identify who those people are and get them help.

- Senator Lowe, your response to some of the opposition?

- Well, I would say the same thing.

I mean, there are people that have problems with this.

The way our system is set up, it's set up so those folks will be identified and help can be offered to those folks that have problems with addiction.

You know, addiction is a tough thing to deal with at any level in anything.

But I think that we've done some good things with it, and I think that we're gonna be able to move with this in a very, very safe fashion.

- And to that point, for both of you, $2 million a year of this revenue will go towards education and treatment programs around problem gambling.

Do you believe that's enough?

- So we'll find out.

I mean, that's what we'll know.

We'll see if that's enough or if it's too much or whatever.

And if it's not enough, we can always go back and add money to that.

So, but at least we start the process of identifying where problems may exist and identifying those people who need help and we can start to get them that help.

- Senator Lowe, what's next on the horizon?

What do you see?

There were some discussions about retail casino expansion, about online platform gambling.

Where do you guys go from here?

Are there opportunities for expanding this any further, especially during this next short session?

- I think that in this short session, I don't wanna be premature.

There are some things that, we've had discussion about VTL machines and other kinds of things like that, and there's, I don't know if I'm talking too freely.

There's some gray area between these sweepstakes facilities and there's been a lot of discussion about what we should do.

And one of the bigger problems is you can't regulate what really isn't legal.

And there's some things that are gonna have to become legal so that we can actually regulate it in a safe fashion.

And that's something that we're gonna have to do more education on in terms of our ranks as a legislature and really have some real discussion to see where, what folks really want to do, what will happen in a short session?

I don't think that's gonna be something we'll tackle, but maybe.

- [Jason] Yeah, I'd say maybe.

I mean, Senator Lowe is absolutely correct.

There's an underground economy out there because we've, we've not been able to regulate sweepstakes.

We've not, we've not put the, the best foot forward in, in, in trying to find out what's really happening.

We know it's happening.

You can talk to any sheriff across the state.

They know it's happening, and they have a real problem with trying to enforce the law because there's no, no clear direction.

There's no clear way to, to know.

So you can go county to county, and you get very different interpretations, very different approaches.

Again, this is a revenue issue.

I think when we looked at it on the study, it was somewhere around $1.8 billion.

That's a lot of money to our state.

When you, when you're talking about a 32, 33 billion dollar budget, that's considerable and, and again, it's this underground economy that's not being one, monitored and, and not being enforced and, and which means that consumers end up on the losing end, really and so what, what will happen, I think, whether it's in the short session or in the long session next year, is that this, this is not going away.

Simply putting your head in the sand and saying, "We're just gonna ignore the problem."

Doesn't, doesn't address it and so same with a problem, you know, addiction, addicted gamblers.

If, if you pretend it's not there, that doesn't mean it goes away.

It will be here.

I think that at some point in time, we do take it up.

I think, I think VLT's probably has a, the video lottery terminals probably has a better chance at, at, at bubbling up and, and doing, something happening in the short session versus casinos.

Casinos, you know, somewhat controversial.

Although looking at the results from the last primary, I don't think so.

Given the candidates that prevailed.

So, so there's a, there's an appetite across the state.

There's folks who are certainly totally opposed, but there are also folks that understand that, that this, this revenue, this underground economy is happening.

We must find a way to deal with it.

- And we've talked a good bit about the idea of responsible gaming.

Any tangible takeaways for folks who may be watching?

Any, any tips or any just bottom line messaging that you have on that topic?

- Yeah, well look, be responsible.

I mean, it's, you know, we're not here as a state to, to interfere in your personal life and tell you what to do.

It's like anything else.

You know, you, you can go too far on anything.

I, I'm, I'm also a video gamer, right?

And if I buy all the games and I spend all the money on Fortnite, then, then that's not very responsible.

We, we expect people, particularly adults, to be adults and adults are the only ones, only ones that can play.

We just expect you to self-regulate.

However, if you do get in trouble, there, there's going to be some options for you and some help for you.

- Senator Lowe, any thoughts from you?

- Well, I, I think the same thing and I think that you can, you can overload on anything, you know, and I think that we have to learn how to be responsible, and I think this is entertainment for a lot of people and like any entertainment, I think that you have to learn to be careful with it and to, to do what's appropriate for you and your family.

- Gentlemen, we've got about two minutes left.

I'll give you each kind of a minute of final words.

Representative Sam, we'll start with you.

Any final takeaways on this topic?

- Yeah, I think the, the one, one big takeaway that we're gonna see is that, you know, our fiscal staff, they're, they're not, they're not great prognosticators as to how much money's going to come in.

That's not their fault.

That's just not the business they're in.

We were estimating revenue somewhere, you know, somewhere 150 million.

I think it's gonna be much more.

If we look at other states, they have hit windfalls.

Their estimates have always been way lower than what actually comes in and you see all the advertising.

Again, that means that there's a market out there, people who want to be engaged in this, it is their form of entertainment and, and they'll participate and the state will be the beneficiary for it.

- Senator Lowe, we'll give you the final word.

- Well, when I, when I look at it and I look at major sporting events on television, and I see the advertising that is beginning to happen in our state, it says to me that there's some, a lot of money in this.

I don't know what, I don't have a crystal ball.

My staff doesn't have a crystal ball.

His staff doesn't have a crystal ball, so we don't know exactly what it's going to be, but I think it's gonna be good for our state and I will say that.

- Pull up social media, it's already everywhere.

Especially- - It's, yeah.

- On the eve of Selection Sunday, the, the ACC Tournament, March Madness.

- Yes.

- It's coming at a interesting time.

- It's coming at a clip.

We, we'll see the benefit of that too.

I mean, we're, we're a basketball state.

- Yes.

- We love basketball.

I, I think folks are gonna be having a good time when it comes around.

- Well, we'll see.

Gentlemen, thank you for joining us.

Thank you for your time and insight on this topic and thank you at home for watching.

Please email your thoughts and opinions to statelines@pbsnc.org.

We read every email.

I'm David Hurst.

Thanks for watching, we'll see you next time.

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