CRYSTAL: HI, EVERYBODY, I AM CRYSTAL HAYNES.

TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, WE START WITH A DISCUSSION ON BANKS THIS WEEK.

THE LATEST ON INFLATION NUMBERS.

ARE WE OVER THE HILL JUST YET?

HISTORIAN ELIZABETH COBBS JOINS ME ON HER LATEST BOOK ON HOW WOMEN THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAVE INSPIRED, INFLUENCED, AND PUSHED FORWARD THE WOMAN'’S MOVEMENT.

THERE IS A LOT OF FEAR SWIRLING AROUND THE FINANCIAL WORLD AFTER TWO U.S. BANKS FAILED IN JUST THE PAST SIX DAYS.

BUT WHAT EXACTLY IS GOING ON HERE AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR YOU AND ME?

LET'’S START AT THE BEGINNING, FIRST, SILICON VALLEY BANK COLLAPSED ABOUT A WEEK AGO AFTER TOO MANY OF ITS CUSTOMERS STARTED WITHDRAWING THEIR MONEY.

A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER, ANOTHER FINANCIAL INSTITUTION, THE CRYPTO HEAVY SIGNATURE BANK FAILED AS WELL, SENDING THE INDUSTRY INTO TURMOIL.

AND THE INSTABILITY OF IT ALL HAS TAKEN ITS TOLL ON THE STOCK MARKET HAS SEEN LOSSES ACROSS THE BOARD SINCE NEWS OF THESE FAILURES BROKE.

BOTH BANKS ARE UNDER FEDERAL CONTROL AND REGULATORS PLEDGED TO COVER ALL OF THE INSTITUTION'’S DEPOSITS, NOT JUST THE AMOUNT THEY ARE LEGALLY INSURED FOR, FROM TREASURY SECRETARY JANET YELLEN TO THE PRESIDENT HIMSELF, THEY ARE TRYING TO REASSURE THE COUNTRY.

>> I WILL ASK CONGRESS AND THE BANKING REGULATORS TO STRENGTHEN THE RULES FOR BANKS TO MAKE IT LESS LIKELY THIS KIND OF BANK FAILURE WILL HAPPEN AGAIN AND PROTECT AMERICAN JOBS AND SMALL BUSINESSES.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS.

AMERICANS CAN REST ASSURED THAT OUR BANKING SYSTEM IS SAFE.

THERE DEPOSITS ARE SAFE.

CRYSTAL: THERE IS STILL A LOT OF MISTRUST IN THE SYSTEM HERE AND PLENTY OF FINANCIAL ANXIETY AS INFLATION CONTINUES TO RAISE THE COST OF EVERYDAY NECESSITIES LIKE GROCERIES AND ENERGY.

SO WHAT CAN WE DO TO KEEP OUR MONEY SAFE AND IF THERE IS A LIGHT AT THE END OF THIS INFLATION,, WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS.

JOINING WE NOW TO DISCUSS THIS IS RON LIEBER, AUTHOR OF THE NEW YORK TIMES COLUMN, AND DAN PRIMACK, BUSINESS EDITOR AT AXIOS.

RON, I WANT TO START WITH YOU.

I FEEL LIKE THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE FOLKS ARE JUST REALLY OVERWHELMED WITH THE INFORMATION, FOLKS WHO DON'’T STUDYING THE BUSINESS MARKETS INSIDE AND OUT.

AND WHAT EFFECTS DOES THE FAILURES OF SVB AND SIGNATURE HAVE ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW AS IT STANDS?

RON: THE STOCK MARKET HAS NOT MOVED ALL THAT MUCH IN THE LAST FIVE DAYS.

I WAS JUST CHECKING IT FOR A COLUMN I'’M WRITING.

IF YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT THE OVERALL INVESTMENT, WHICH IS HOW MOST PEOPLE LOOK AT THE BUSINESS WORLD WHO DON'’T WATCH IT EVERY DAY, YOU KNOW, THEY SEE WHAT THE S&P 500 STOCK INDEX IS DOING, THAT HAS NOT MOVED SO MUCH.

BANKING STOCKS HIM A DIFFERENT STORY ENTIRELY AND WHEN THE BANK STOCKS START TO MOVE AROUND A LOT, PEOPLE GET SCARED AND THEY WONDER WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THEIR MONEY AT THE BANK.

CRYSTAL: AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE SAW SOME FOLKS LOCALLY HERE IN THE BOSTON AREA LINED UP AT THE FEW BRANCHES OF THE BANK THAT WE HAVE HERE AND THEY WERE TAKING THEIR MONEY OUT, VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

SHOULD FOLKS BE WORRIED AT THIS POINT ABOUT THEIR INVESTMENTS?

DAN: INVESTMENTS, MAY BE.

SVB A COUPLE YEARS AGO BOUGHT SOMETHING CALLED BOSTON PRIVATE, WHICH WAS A BIG, PRIVATE BANK BASED IN MASSACHUSETTS WE HAVE A LOT OF STARTUPS.

SVB BANKED STARTUPS.

I UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE LINED UP.

IF YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL WITH MORE THAN 250,000 DOLLARS, LAST THURSDAY AND LAST FRIDAY MORNING, THERE WERE BIG QUESTIONS WHETHER YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO GET YOUR MONEY OR WHETHER THAT WOULD DISAPPEAR.

I THINK THOSE WERE LEGITIMATE QUESTIONS FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE.

THEY CAME IN ON SUNDAY NIGHT AND SAID WE ARE GOING TO COVER THOSE DEPOSITS EVEN IF YOU HAVE $20 MILLION.

$20 MILLION IS BASED CRYSTAL: SHOULD FOLKS BE THINKING ABOUT MOVING THEIR MONEY AROUND?

AS WE TALK ABOUT, THE STOCK MARKET HAS NOT MOVED AS MUCH IN RECENT DAYS.

FOLKS MIGHT BE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR 401(K)S. DAN: ON THE MONEY SIDE, IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN $250,000 IN A BANK AND THERE IS NO EXTRA INSURANCE ON IT -- IF YOU HAVE $300,000, $500 MILLION IN A BANK, AND THE SECOND HALF IS NOT INSURED, YOU SHOULD MOVE IT FOR LIFE.

THAT IS A CONSERVATIVE THING TO DO.

IN TERMS OF INVESTMENTS, THE MARKET HAS NOT MOVED THAT MUCH.

IF YOU HAVE PORTFOLIO BANK STOCKS, THAT'’S A BIT PROBLEMATIC AND THERE ARE RISING RECESSION RISKS.

SIX MONTH AGO, EVERYONE THOUGHT WE WOULD HAVE A MILD RECESSION IN THE U.S.

IN THE BACK HALF OF THIS YEAR.

EVERYBODY GOT A LOT MORE BULLISH.

NOW, THERE'’S MORE QUESTIONS.

CRYSTAL: DO YOU THINK WE COULD SEE OTHER BANKS WITH SIMILAR, I GUESS, BUSINESS PRACTICES, AS THE TWO FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS THAT WE HAVE SEEN?

SHOULD WE WORRY ABOUT OTHERS FAILING?

RON: IT COULD HAPPEN.

I TRY AND STAY OUT OF THE PREDICTION GAME.

HERE IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING TODAY IN PARTICULAR WITH THE REGULATOR NUDGING A BUNCH OF GIANT BANKS TO PUT A BUNCH OF MONEY TO WORK AT FIRST REPUBLIC TO TRY TO SHORE IT UP.

IT SURE SEEMS LIKE THE REGULATORS ARE GOING TO STOP AT BASICALLY NOTHING TO KEEP EVERYTHING FROM SPINNING OUT OF CONTROL, RIGHT?

WHAT WE SAW OVER THE WEEKEND IS THAT THEY WERE GOING TO STEP IN.

THEY WERE GOING TO STEP IN NOT JUST AT THE $250,000 SORT OF GUARANTEED FDIC LEVEL, BUT THEY WERE GOING TO GUARANTEE EVERY LAST DOLLAR, RIGHT.

BUT THAT DOESN'’T GUARANTEE THAT IF THERE IS A BANK PROBLEM TOMORROW, IN A WEEK, IN A MONTH, THAT THEY WOULD DO THE SAME THING, BUT POLITICALLY, IT WOULD BE PRETTY HARD AT THIS POINT IF A BANK ANYWHERE NEAR THE SIZE OF THE ONES THAT HAVE ALREADY GONE UNDER, IF THEY GET IN TROUBLE, IT WOULD BE DIFFICULT POLITICALLY NOT TO BACKSTOP THOSE CUSTOMERS WHO HAVE THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY, BUT AGAIN, TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, 99% OF THE PEOPLE WATCHING HERE, THEY DON'’T KEEP ANYTHING CLOSE TO 250 THOUSAND DOLLARS SITTING AROUND IN A BANK ACCOUNT AND FOR THOSE FOLKS, IF THERE BANK HAPPENS TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, IN A DAY OR TWO, THE FDIC OR ANOTHER BANK HAS TAKEN OVER AND THINGS SORT OF CONTINUE ON PACE.

THE REAL CONCERN IS LESS ABOUT INDIVIDUALS AND MORE ABOUT BUSINESSES, KEEPING MONEY IN ACCOUNTS.

WHILE YOU MIGHT THINK, I DON'’T OWN A BUSINESS, BUSINESSES EMPLOY PEOPLE.

THE BIGGER CONCERN IS LESS INDIVIDUALS.

IT WAS INDIVIDUALS LINING UP OUTSIDE THE BRANCHES.

IF THE COMPANY HAS NEXT WEEK OR NEXT MONTH'’S PAYROLL SITTING IN THE BANK, THEN WHAT HAPPENS?

THERE IS THE SO-CALLED MORAL HAZARD THING.

IT WOULD BE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TO HAVE BAILED OUT A BANK CALLED SILICONE VALLEY BANK AND THEN NOT BAILOUT ONE IN PITTSBURGH OR CLEVELAND IF IT WERE TO GO UNDER.

CRYSTAL: WE KNOW JANET YELLEN SPOKE WITH THE SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE TODAY.

WE WILL HAVE YOU RESPOND AND REACT TO WHAT SHE SAID.

>> I CAN REASSURE THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE THAT OUR BANKING SYSTEM IS SOUND AND THAT AMERICANS CAN FEEL CONFIDENT THAT THEIR DEPOSITS WILL BE THERE WHEN THEY NEED THEM.

THIS WEEK'’S ACTIONS DEMONSTRATE OUR RESOLUTE COMMITMENT TO ENSURE THAT OUR FINANCIAL SYSTEM REMAINS STRONG AND THAT SAVINGS REMAIN SAFE.

CRYSTAL: I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.

WE ALSO KNOW THAT MASSACHUSETTS SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN WAS CRITICAL OF WHAT HAS BEEN DONE -- WHAT SHE CALLED THE DEREGULATION OF SORT OF THE BANKING SYSTEMS, AND SHE FLAT OUT SAID TO REPORTERS TODAY THAT JEROME POWELL AND OTHERS ARE THE REASON WHY SILICONE VALLEY BANK WAS ABLE TO DO WHAT THEY WERE DOING, THEY WERE RECKLESS IN THEIR INVESTMENTS, ACCORDING TO HER.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED.

>> LOOK, IT'’S TRUE THAT REGULATIONS LOOSENED A COUPLE YEARS AGO IN SUCH A WAY THAT A BANK PRECISELY THE SIZE OF SILICONE VALLEY BANK HAD LESS OVERSIGHT AND FEWER RULES.

THE QUESTION OF HOW THAT MIGHT CHANGE GOING FORWARD IS A MUCH MORE COMPLICATED ONE.

THE POLITICAL REALITY AND THE REGULATORY REALITY BEING WHAT IT IS.

BUT I THINK YOU CAN MAKE A PRETTY GOOD CASE THAT HAD WE BEEN IN A 2015 REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT, AT THE VERY LEAST, THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN MORE GOVERNMENTAL SCRUTINY OF THE BANK.

NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE OTHER PEOPLE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, ANALYSTS WHO WERE SOUNDING ALARMS IN THE DAYS AND WEEKS BEFOREHAND, BUT THEY DID NOT REALLY HAVE THE POWER TO FORCE THE BANK TO DO ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY.

CRYSTAL: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS?

DAN: PEOPLE IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR, SOME PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THIS.

THE REASON THE SVB SPIRAL STARTS IS BECAUSE THEY ANNOUNCED THEY WOULD SELL A BUNCH OF STOCK.

THE ONLY REASON THEY WERE ABOUT TO DO THAT IS THAT PRIVATE SECTOR ORGANIZATIONS, PARTICULARLY MOODY'’S, WAS ABOUT TO GIVE THEM A BIG DOWNGRADE.

MOODY'’S HAD FIGURED THIS OUT.

THAT IS THE KICKOFF.

IT IS PART -- IT IS POSSIBLE THAT MAYBE SOME OF THIS WOULD HAVE GOT CAUGHT BUT THE REALITY IS, AND THIS IS SOMETHING WARREN SUGGESTED TODAY, SILICONE VALLEY BANK, IT'’S NOT LIKE IT DID NOT HAVE A REGULATOR.

IT DID.

THE SAN FRANCISCO FED WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WATCHING FOR THIS SORT OF THING AND THERE ARE QUESTIONS RIGHT NOW AS TO HOW DID THE SAN FRANCISCO FED NOT SEE WHAT MOODY'’S SAW, NOT VINCI WHAT CERTAIN VENTURE CAPITAL FIRMS SAW IN A STORY A COUPLE WEEKS BEFORE THIS ALL HAPPENED.

CRYSTAL: THANK YOU FOR THE CORRECTION ON THE NAME.

LET'’S TALK ABOUT INFLATION BECAUSE I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING THAT'’S -- FOLKS CONTINUE TO DEAL WITH THE EFFECTS OF INFLATION AND IN THE CORRECTIONS FOR INFLATION, YOU KNOW, I AM FROM A FAMILY OF REALTORS AND THEY CERTAINLY FELT THAT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT MORTGAGE RATES AND THE PRICE OF EGGS.

ANYONE -- THAT'’S ALWAYS THE EXAMPLE FOLKS TAKE.

DO EITHER OF YOU THINK THAT THERE IS RELIEF IN SIGHT?

I WILL START WITH YOU, RON.

RON: I THINK IT'’S POSSIBLE.

THE RAPID RISE IN INTEREST RATES IS WHAT CREATED THE PROBLEMS ON THE BOOKS OF SILICON VALLEY THAT CAUSED THEM TO DO WHAT THEY HAD TO DO.

THE FED HAD BEEN RAISING INTEREST RATES BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT THAT THAT WOULD TAMP DOWN INFLATION AND IT WORKED A LITTLE BIT BUT MAYBE NOT AS MUCH AS THEY HAD HOPED AT LEAST AS THE NUMBERS INDICATE IN RECENT WEEKS.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW?

THEY HAVE A CHOICE ON THEIR HANDS.

THEY CAN CONTINUE TO RAISE RATES, BUT THAT HAS AT LEAST SOME POSSIBILITY OF CAUSING MORE PROBLEMS AT OTHER BANKS WITH SIMILAR BALANCE SHEETS.

OR THEY CAN PUT A STOP TO IT BUT IF THEY PUT A STOP TO IT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN AT THAT POINT IF THEY STOP RAISING RATES WITH THEIR EFFORTS TO TAMP DOWN INFLATION?

IT IS A DELICATE DANCE AND THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS DO NOT MAKE IT ANY EASIER.

I DO NOT ENVY THEM.

CRYSTAL: DO YOU THINK YOU CAN CORRECT TOO MUCH?

DAN: ON THE INTEREST-RATE SIDE?

YOU CAN.

PEOPLE WHO ARE SHAREHOLDERS AT SILICONE VALLEY BANK WOULD SAY YOU CORRECTED TOO MUCH.

THE FED IS IN A NO WIN SITUATION.

THE FED HAS DUAL MANDATES, ONE IS TO KEEP INFLATION LOW AND THE OTHER IS TO KEEP EMPLOYMENT HIGH.

RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE IN CONFLICT WITH ONE ANOTHER AND THE SPANKING THING IS THIS -- THIS BANKING THING IS THIS THIRD VEIL HERBAL -- VARIABLE.

IT IS NOT ONE OF THE MANDATES PER SE BUT IT IS ALSO A SUPERVISORY ROLE SO IT HAS TO CARE AND IT IS NOT IMMUNE TO IT.

I THINK IT WAS CLEAR TWO WEEKS AGO WITH THE FED WAS PLANNING TO DO.

JAY POWELL SAID WE ARE GOING TO KEEP RAISING RATES.

I THINK RIGHT NOW, I WOULD NOT BET ON THIS.

CRYSTAL: THAT'’S RIGHT.

SARAH DO WE ANTICIPATE THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH THE BANKS -- NOW, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT POSSIBLY HAVING MORE INFLATION RATES.

HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE SOMEONE AT HOME IF YOU WERE -- WHO ARE WATCHING -- OR SOMEONE WHO IS IN YOUR LIVING ROOM, HOW WOULD YOU ADVISE THEM?

KEEP CALM?

IT IS ALL GOING TO WORK ITSELF OUT?

SURE YOU GET A LOT OF PHONE CALLS FROM FOLKS ASKING FOR FINANCIAL ADVICE OR JUST WAYS TO RIDE IT OUT.

I WILL START WITH YOU.

RON: IT IS VERY RARE THAT RUN FOR THE HILLS HAS TURNED OUT TO BE PRUDENT ADVICE IN RETROSPECT.

I HAVE BEEN GOING BACK TO ALL OF THE STAY CALM COLUMNS I'’VE WRITTEN IN 2008, 2011, 2015, 2016, 2018, AND THERE WASN'’T ANYTHING EMBARRASSING IN ANY OF THOSE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MARKETS, I JUST LOOKED AT SOME DATA THIS MORNING.

OVER THE COURSE OF 47 YEARS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU STUCK IN A U.S. STOCK MARKET FUND AND LEFT IT, THE RETURN IS 1400% OVER THAT 47 YEAR PERIOD.

IF YOU DECIDED TO GO TO THE SIDELINES, JUST WAIT UNTIL THINGS GET A LITTLE MORE CALM AND THEN YOU WILL GET BACK IN.

IF YOU MISSED THE 10 BEST TRADING DAYS OF THOSE 47 YEARS, YOUR RETURNS DROPPED FROM 1400 AND CHANGE TO 600 AND CHANGE.

RIGHT?

SO MOST OF US OUT THERE ARE NOT EXPERTS.

EVEN THE EXPERTS GENERALLY DO NOT OUTPERFORM THE PERFORMANCE OF AN OVERALL STOCK MARKET INDEX SO IF PEOPLE THINK THAT THEY HAVE TO DO SOMETHING, RIGHT, I WOULD SUGGEST THE FOLLOWING.

DON'’T JUST DO SOMETHING.

STAND THERE.

TAKE A DEEP BREATH.

TRY TO STAY THE COURSE.

CRYSTAL: FOR FOLKS FREAKING OUT, WHAT DO YOU TELL THEM?

DAN: I TELL THEM I DON'’T GIVE ADVICE.

IF YOU HAVE A GOOD MATTRESS, SHOVEL LITTLE THINGS IN THERE FOR A RAINY DAY.

I GENERALLY AGREE WITH RON.

EVEN WITH SVB AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST WEEK, PEOPLE WHO HAPPEN TO OWN STOCK OR BONDS IN THE BANK, IT IS VERY BAD FOR THEM.

IF YOU WERE A GENERAL INVESTOR, GENERAL MARKET INDEX, YOU HAVE NOT REALLY FELT THIS.

YOU FELT IT IF YOU HAVE BEEN WATCHING ENDLESSLY BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF VOLATILITY BUT IN THE END, YOU HAVE NOT REALLY -- THE HEADLINES HAVE BEEN BIGGER THAN WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO YOUR ACCOUNTS.

CRYSTAL: RON LIEBER AND DAN PRIMACK, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

NEXT UP, WHAT DO BEYONCE AND ABIGAIL ADAMS HAVE IN COMMON?

A LOT MORE THAN YOU MIGHT THINK.

BOTH WERE NOT AFRAID TO FIGHT FOR THEIR OWN PLACE IN HISTORY AND FOR THE ADVANCEMENT OF THEIR FELLOW WOMEN.

SEPARATED BY GENERATIONS BUT UNITED BY A COMMON GOAL, THESE TWO WOMEN IN MANY, MANY OTHERS THROUGHOUT U.S. HISTORY, DID THE WORK OF WHAT HISTORIAN ELIZABETH COBBS REFERS TO IN HER LATEST BOOK AS FEMINIST PATRIOTS.

ELIZABETH JOINS ME NOW.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

ELIZABETH COBBS, I APPRECIATE IT.

I LOVE THIS CONVERSATION, ESPECIALLY AS YOU FRAME THESE WOMEN, ABIGAIL ADAMS AND BEYONCE , AND THROUGH THIS FEMINIST PERSPECTIVE, BUT ALSO THE WAY THAT THEY AFFECT CHANGE THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

ELIZABETH: THANK YOU.

THEY REALLY ARE PART OF A WONDERFUL STORY.

THIS IS ONE OF OUR BEST STORIES AS A COUNTRY, THE STORY OF FEMINISM WHICH WAS BORN REALLY IN BOSTON, BORN IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

FROM ABIGAIL ADAMS TO BEYONCE, WOMEN AND MEN HAVE REALLY ADVANCED THAT HISTORY.

CRYSTAL: TALK TO ME ABOUT WHEN YOU WERE PUTTING TOGETHER THIS BOOK AND YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT SELECTING THE WOMEN AND THEN ALSO FRAMING THE CONVERSATION OR THE ARGUMENT IN THE BOOK.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT PROCESS.

RON: THERE -- ELIZABETH: THERE WERE KIND OF TWO PHASES OF IT.

THAT IS WHERE SCHOLARS START, FIGURING IT OUT OURSELVES, AND I WANTED TO VISUALIZE THE RUNGS ON THE LATTER, THE FIRST STEP THAT WOMEN PUT THEIR FEET ON AND THE NEXT STEP AND THE NEXT STEP THAT GOT US TO WHERE YOU AND I CAN HAVE THIS CONVERSATION BECAUSE WOMEN WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SPEAK IN PUBLIC, NOT ALLOWED TO KEEP THEIR OWN WAGES, NOT ALLOWED TO OWN PROPERTY.

ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

SO EACH CHAPTER TELLS THE STORY OF KIND OF THAT PROGRESSION.

IT STARTS WITH THE RIGHT TO LEARN.

THAT SOUNDS SO BASIC BUT ASKED MALALA IN PAKISTAN WHO WAS SHOT IN THE HEAD FOR WANTING TO GO TO HIGH SCHOOL.

THAT IS ALL ABIGAIL ADAMS WAS ADVOCATED FOR.

SHE WAS AN AMBITIOUS WOMAN.

I WAS HER FIRST REAL DEMAND.

LET GIRLS GO TO SCHOOL.

USE GENERATION TELLS THAT STORY BUT I TELL IT EACH TIME THROUGH TWO PEOPLE BECAUSE I THINK THAT WE REMEMBER STORIES BECAUSE OF PEOPLE, RIGHT.

LIVES AND STRUGGLES AND OBSTACLES AND HEROISM AND SUCCESSES AND TRAGEDIES THAT EVERYBODY CONFRONTS THAT MOVE OUR HEARTS.

EACH CHAPTER HAS TWO WOMEN AND ONE OF THEM AS A PERSON I CALL THE FACE OF FEMINISM AND SHE IS A CIVIC MINDED PERSON WHO SAYS THINGS NEED TO BE BETTER AND THEN THERE IS ANOTHER PERSON WHO IS THE -- WHY WE SHOULD ALL CARE.

WHY ANYBODY CARED.

THESE WERE NOT TRIVIAL ISSUES.

CRYSTAL: TALK TO ME ABOUT INCLUDING SOMEONE LIKE BEYONCE IN THIS CONVERSATION.

I IMAGINE AS AN HISTORIAN, YOU HAD A PLETHORA OF WOMEN TO CHOOSE FROM.

I MEAN HISTORICAL FIGURES TO CHOOSE FROM BUT INCLUDING BEYONCE, WHAT WAS YOUR THOUGHT PROCESS IN THAT?

ELIZABETH: JUST LOOKING AT THE PICTURES YOU HAVE GOT UP, ALREADY THINKING SHE IS SUCH AN AMAZING PERSON.

I WAS VERY INTERESTED -- I THINK THAT WHERE WE COME TODAY, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

WE HAVE EQUALITY IN LAW SO HOW DOES FEMINISM ADVANCE, THIS NOTION THAT NOWADAYS, BY THE WAY, 91% OF AMERICANS SAY THAT HE BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN IS VERY IMPORTANT.

-- EQUALITY BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN IS VERY IMPORTANT.

HOW DO WE GET TO THE POINT WHERE IT IS IN THE WATER, IN THE AIR?

AND EVEN WHEN PEOPLE ARE SHY TO CALL THEMSELVES FEMINISTS, THEY STILL BELIEVE IN THE VALUES?

BEYONCE IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF THE STORY.

SHE STARTS OUT AS A GIRL, NINE YEARS OLD, 10 YEARS OLD, 15 YEARS OLD, AND SHE'’S WORKING ON WRITING MUSIC AND THE MUSIC SHE IS WRITING, FROM THE VERY FIRST SONG SHE WRITES, ARE ABOUT WOMEN'’S INDEPENDENCE, ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF BEING YOUR OWN PERSON, STANDING ON YOUR OWN FEET.

SHE SAID IN ONE INTERVIEW, MAKING SURE YOU HAVE A LIFE BEFORE YOU BECOME A WIFE.

SHE IS JUST THIS PERSON WHO REALLY EMBODIES THIS THREAD OF FEMINIST VALUES IN ALL DIFFERENT SIZES AND SHAPES AND GENRES.

SHE IS A WOMAN WHO WEARS TINY, SKIMPY SKIRTS.

THAT IS FEMINISM.

THAT IS HER CHOICE.

THAT IS HER RIGHT.

AND TO BE TREATED WITH RESPECT AND DIGNITY HOWEVER SHE CHOOSES TO LIVE HER LIFE.

CRYSTAL: YOU WRITE DOWN FEMINISM THROUGH THE GENERATIONS, THROUGH THE YEARS.

DO YOU FIND THAT THERE ARE PHASES OF WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE?

I'’M THINKING IN MY LIMITED KNOWLEDGE OF THE SUFFRAGE MOVEMENT AND HOW EACH SORT OF HEAD OF THAT MOVEMENT CHANGED AND MOVED THE NEEDLE FORWARD AS TIMES CHANGE.

ELIZABETH: THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.

WE ALL HAVE THIS IDEA OF THERE WAS THE VOTE AND THEN THERE WAS -- DURING THE 1960'’S AND 1970'’S, AND HERE WE ARE.

IT IS A GENERATIONAL BATTLE.

AFTER THE RIGHT TO LEARN CAME THE RIGHT TO SPEAK, TO SPEAK IN PUBLIC, AND THAT WAS ADVANCED BY WOMEN ABOLITIONISTS, ACTUALLY.

THAT WAS THE SUBJECT THEY WANTED TO SPEAK ON, ESPECIALLY TO BE ABLE TO SPEAK ABOUT A PARTICULARLY HARD AND HEAVY BURDEN THAT SLAVERY IMPOSED ON WOMEN.

ON WOMEN'’S BODIES, TO BEAR THE NEXT GENERATION OF ENSLAVED PEOPLE.

THAT WAS THE WAY THE SYSTEM WORKED, SO THESE WOMEN WANTED TO SPEAK ABOUT THAT AND THAT RIGHT TO SPEAK IS SOMETHING THEY FOUGHT VERY HARD FOR.

PEOPLE WHO SPOKE THROUGHOUT THE NORTHEAST.

HARRIET JACOBS, WHO WROTE A BOOK ABOUT IT, HAD BEEN ENSLAVED AND WROTE ABOUT HER EXPERIENCES AS A WOMAN.

THAT WAS CONSIDERED SCANDALOUS.

TO WRITE ABOUT THE THINGS THAT AFFECTED WOMEN IN PARTICULAR WAS CONSIDERED GAUCHE AND THESE WOMEN WERE VERY BRAVE IN DOING THAT.

EACH GENERATION DOES EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

THE RIGHT TO PETITION, THE RIGHT TO VOTE, THE RIGHT TO EARN MONEY, THE RIGHT TO EQUAL TREATMENT, THE RIGHT TO SAFETY, WHICH IS WHERE I CONCLUDE, WHICH IS SOMETHING WE STILL DON'’T HAVE.

CRYSTAL: I THINK OF ALL OF THESE WOMEN AND HOW MUCH WORK AND HOW MUCH THEY SACRIFICED FOR WOMEN TO BE WHERE THEY ARE.

THIS IS WOMEN'’S HISTORY MONTH.

WE JUST HAD INTERNATIONAL WOMEN'’S DAY, EQUAL PAY DAY, CONVERSATIONS LIKE THIS.

SHOULD WE HAVE GONE FARTHER?

I HAD A RECENT CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE ABOUT HOW IT WAS THE 1970'’S WHEN WOMEN WERE ABLE TO HAVE THEIR OWN CREDIT CARDS AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'’T REALIZE THAT THAT WAS THE TRUTH, THAT THAT WAS A REALITY.

DO YOU THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT WOMEN HAVE ACTUALLY COME FARTHER THAN WE HAVE?

ELIZABETH: YOU KNOW, SINCE THE DAYS OF JOHN ADAMS, ANTI-FEMINISTS, AND JOHN ADAMS CAN CATEGORIZE AS ONE -- WE WRITE THE LAWS SO WE WILL NO LONGER BE THE VASSALS, THE SLAVES OF YOUR SEX.

HE SAYS I CANNOT BUT LAUGH.

HE ALSO SAYS WOMEN HAVE SUFFICIENT NUMBER OF RIGHTS.

THIS WAS IN A NERO WHEN AS A WOMEN -- IN AN ERA WHEN AS A WOMAN, YOU HAD NO CUSTODY OVER YOUR OWN CHILDREN.

THAT SEEMED ENOUGH.

EACH GENERATION HAS PUSHED THEIR MARKER AHEAD AND OFTEN, IT HAS BEEN THE CASE THAT PEOPLE IN THE SAME GENERATION WILL SAY THAT WOMEN GOT IT GOOD ENOUGH.

ONE OF THE WOMEN I FEATURED AS A FEMINIST WAS A WELL-KNOWN ANTIFEMINIST BECAUSE LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE, IN HER GENERATION, SHE IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THE EQUAL PAY ACT OF 1963, THAT IS OK.

THE CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 19 624, THAT IS OK.

EVEN RUTH BADER GINSBURG'’S LAWSUITS THAT MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR WOMEN TO BE -- TO DO SUCH THINGS AS READ A CONTRACT UNDER LAW, SEX DETERMINATION LAWSUITS, ANTI-FEMINISTS LIKE PHILLIPS SHIVELY SAID THAT IS ALL OK -- PHYLLIS SHIVELY SAID THAT IS OK.

CRYSTAL: WHAT LESSONS DO YOU THINK MODERN-DAY FEMINISTS CAN LEARN FROM THE WOMEN IN YOUR BOOK AND OTHER WOMEN YOU HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT?

I THINK YOUR HARRIET TUBMAN BOOK IS ONE OF MY FAVORITES AS WELL AS ELIZABETH: THANK YOU.

-- AS WELL.

ELIZABETH: THANK YOU.

I WRITE NOVELS AS WELL AND THERE IS NOTHING MORE THRILLING THAN WALKING THE FOOT APPS OF A PERSON LIKE HER WHO WAS SUCH A HERO FOR US ALL, ALL AMERICANS.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE TO TAKE AWAY IS THAT FEMINISM WAS PART OF THE MOST ELEMENTAL ASPECTS OF AMERICAN HISTORY.

WOMEN'’S HISTORY IS NOT A SIDE DISH.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING YOU PUT ON THE PLATE TO MAKE IT LOOK FANCY.

WE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THINGS LIKE THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION, THE ABOLITION OF SLAVERY, THE NEW DEAL AND THE CREATION OF SYSTEMS LIKE SOCIAL SECURITY UNLESS WE UNDERSTAND THE WAYS THAT FEMINISTS WERE VERY MUCH PART OF ALL THOSE MAJOR TRANSFORMATIONS OF OUR ECONOMY, POLITICAL SYSTEMS, OF OUR SOCIETY.

SAY IT LOUD, SAY A PROUD.

I AM A FEMINIST BECAUSE I YOU, ALL OF LAST, REALLY DO BELIEVE THAT YOU QUALITY BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN IS TERRIBLY IMPORTANT.

CRYSTAL: I DO WANT TO READ THIS EXERT FROM FEARLESS WOMEN.

THE IDEAS OF FEMINISM ARE FIRST ARTICULATED WHERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND BY WOMEN WHO WERE PERSONALLY INVOLVED IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

IT IS NOT ACQUAINTED AND SAT THESE IDEAS COME FROM THE IDEA THAT A MAN, ONE MAN, SHOULD NOT STAND FOR ALL OF US, WHETHER HE IS KING OR WHETHER HE IS HUSBAND.

THAT ALL HUMANS, BECAUSE WE HAVE REASON, HAVE A RIGHT TO EQUALITY, TO LIVE, TO LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

THAT SUMS UP SO MUCH OF THE IDEA OF FEMINISM THEN, BUT ALSO NOW.

ELIZABETH: IT DOES.

FEMINISM IS A NEWISH WORD.

WORDS GET REINVENTED.

AT THE TIME, -- AT THE TIME OF ABOLITION, SUSAN B ANTHONY USED A WORD LIKE COLOR PHOBIA TO REFER TO WHAT WE CALL TODAY RACISM.

IN THE SAME WAY THAT FREDERICK DOUGLASS CALLED HIMSELF A WOMAN'’S RIGHTS MAN, WHICH IS THREE WORDS, AND FEMINIST IS JUST A WORD THAT HAS COME TO US SINCE THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY THAT PEOPLE LIKE ELEANOR ROOSEVELT FOUGHT FOR, BETTY FORD, WIFE OF PRESIDENT FORD, FOUGHT FOR.

IT HAS BEEN A BIPARTISAN, NONPARTISAN AMERICAN TRADITION FROM THE START.

CRYSTAL: ABSOLUTELY.

ELIZABETH COBBS, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THE BOOK IS FEARLESS WOMEN, ABIGAIL ADAMS TO BEYONCE.

THE BOOK AGAIN IS FEARLESS WOMEN: FEMINIST PATRIOTS FROM ABIGAIL ADAMS TO BEYONCE, AVAILABLE NOW.

THAT IS IT FOR TONIGHT BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR TALKING POLITICS.

ADAM AND HIS PANEL WILL DIG INTO WHAT TENSION BETWEEN ELIZABETH AND KAMALA HARRIS TELLS US ABOUT CULTURE AND DEMOCRAT ANXIETY AS WE HEAD TOWARD 2024.

PLUS, A STATE AUDITOR ON HER CONTROVERSIAL PLAN TO AUDIT THE STATE LEGISLATURE.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

I AM CRYSTAL HAYNES.

GOOD NIGHT.