>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": THE NEARLY 30-YEAR CASE AGAINST SCENE ELLIS COULD SOON BE OVER AS SUFFOLK D.A.

RACHAEL ROLLINS MOVES TO DROP THE FINAL REMAINING CONVICTIONS AGAINST HIM RELATING TO THE 1993 MURDER OF A BOSTON POLICE DETECTIVE.

THE D.A.

JOINS ME.

THEN, LATER, A YEAR AFTER HE FIRST STARTED SOUNDING THE ALARM ABOUT COVID-19, WE'LL HEAR FROM THE PRESIDENT OF MASS GENERAL HOSPITAL ON THE RISKS AHEAD AS WE RACE TOWARDS HERD IMMUNITY, WE HOPE.

PLUS, BOSTON GLOBAL NFL WRITER BEN VOLIN ON THE PATRIOT'S TERRIBLE, NO GOD, VERY BAD 2020 SEASON AND BILL BELICHICK'S APPARENT SOLUTION: BUYING A WHOLE NEW TEAM.

>>> 28 YEARS AFTER HE WAS FIRST ARRESTED FOR A MURDER HE HAS ALWAYS MAINTAINED HE DID NOT COMMIT -- MORE THAN 21 OF WHICH HE SPENT BEHIND BARS -- SEAN ELLIS COULD SOON HAVE HIS SLATE WIPED CLEAN AFTER SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY RACHAEL ROLLINS TOOK STEPS TODAY TO DROP HIS FINAL REMAINING CONVICTIONS.

FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW HIS CASE, WHICH WAS CHRONICLED IN THE NETFLIX DOCUSERIES "TRIAL 4," INVESTIGATORS SAID BOSTON POLICE DETECTIVE JOHN MULLIGAN WAS ON DETAIL AND SLEEPING IN HIS CAR IN FRONT OF A WALGREENS IN ROSLINDALE WHEN HE WAS SHOT FIVE TIMES IN THE FACE AND KILLED, FOLLOWING A ROBBERY, BACK IN 1993.

ELLIS, THEN 19YEARS OLD, WAS QUICKLY ARRESTED AND TRIED FOR MULLIGAN'S MURDER.

THE FIRST TWO TRIALS ENDED IN HUNG JURIES, ALTHOUGH ONE JURY DID CONVICT ELLIS OF WEAPONS POSSESSION.

THEN, AT A THIRD TRIAL, HE WAS CONVICTED OF MURDER AND FIRST DEGREE ROBBERY AND SENTENCED TO LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE.

BUT LATER, TWO BOSTON POLICE DETECTIVES PIVOTAL TO THE CASE AGAINST ELLIS, WALTER ROBINSON AND KENNETH ACERRA, PLED GUILTY TO CORRUPTION CHARGES, AND A THIRD CORRUPT COP GOT IMMUNITY IN EXCHANGE FOR TESTIFYING AGAINST THE OTHERS, CASTING DOUBT ON WITNESS TESTIMONY AND PHYSICAL EVIDENCE THEY HAD FOUND.

IN 2015, HIS MURDER CONVICTION WAS OVERTURNED, ELLIS WAS RELEASED ON BAIL, AND A FOURTH TRIAL WAS ORDERED.

BUT THEN THREE YEARS LATER, PROSECUTORS DROPPED THE MURDER AND ROBBERY CHARGES.

BUT THE WEAPONS CONVICTION STILL STANDS, SO ELLIS IS STILL A CONVICTED FELON.

IN DECEMBER, HIS ATTORNEYS FILED FOR A NEW TRIAL ON THAT CHARGE, AND TODAY SUFFOLK D.A.

RACHAEL ROLLINS RESPONDED, ASKING A JUDGE TO APPROVE THE NEW TRIAL AND SIGNALING SHE WOULD THEN DROP THE CHARGES IF THEY DO.

IN IT SHE CALLED POLICE AND PROSECUTORIAL ACTIONS SURROUNDING THE CASE "DISGRACEFUL CHAPTERS IN OUR HISTORY," ADDING "THIS LEVEL OF MISCONDUCT AND INDIFFERENCE BY THE PROSECUTION TEAM, BOTH B.P.D.

AND THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE -- CANNOT BE CONDONED, IGNORED, OR TOLERATED.

WE MUST LEARN FROM OUR MISTAKES."

D.A.

ROLLINS JOINS ME NOW.

>> Braude: DISTRICT ATTORNEY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: FROM THE FIRST TIMECONSIDERED THIS YOU CONSIDERED THIS MATTER, DID YOU PRETTY MUCH KNOW WHERE YOU WANTED TO END UP?

>> NO.

I KNEW THAT I WAS REALLY JUST SHOCKED BY THE LEVEL OF CORRUPTION, BUT I KNEW THAT I WAS ONLY HEARING ONE SIDE OF THE STORY.

AND, YOU KNOW -- BUT NOW HAVING GONE THROUGH THE LONG, HARD PROCESS OF LOOKING AT EVERYTHING, IT IS REALLY JUST A SHAMEFUL CHAPTER IN OUR HISTORY AS LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> Braude: WHAT WAS THE PROCESS?

IN A SITUATION LIKE THIS, DO YOU CONSULT WITH PEOPLE OUTSIDE YOUR OFFICE?

WHAT TRANSPIRED?

>> SO NORMALLY, JIM, THERE -- AND OTHER D.A.s HAVE TO GET THE CREDIT FOR THIS.

I INHERITED AN OFFICE, A GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE HANDLED HOMICIDES BEFORE, AND MANY OF WHOM ARE AP APPELLATE SPECIALISTS, AND THEY WOULD BE AN INTEGRITY INTERNAL GROUP THAT TRY CASES.

THE PROBLEM IS, JIM, MANY D.A.

OFFICE'S BELIEVE I DON'T NEED INTEGRITY, I HAVE APPEAL.

AND, NUMBER TWO, I DON'T WANT ONLY LAWYERS MAKING THE DECISION.

I DONATE WANT AI DON'T WANT A GROUP OF PEOPLE SAYING, UPHOLD THIS CON CONSTRICTIONCONVICTION AT ALL COSTS.

I ASSEMBLED A GROUP AND WE METICULOUSLY WENT OVER THE DOCUMENTS, OF WHICH THERE WERE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PAGES.

SO WE HAD DOZENS OF BOXES FROM OUR THREE TRIALS AND ALL OF THE APPEALS, AND WE HAD THE INTERNAL APPEALS, AS WELL AS THE U.S. DISTRICT ATTORNEY OFFICE'S FILE.

AND I CAN CHOOSE TO, IF I WANT, TO SPEAK TO PEOPLE I TRUST GENERALLY ON THEIR THOUGHTS ON MATTERS, AND I'VE DONE THAT IN THE PAST.

>> Braude: DID YOU TALK TO MULLIGAN'S FAMILY IN THIS PROCESS, OR NO?

>> I DID.

I PERSONALLY DID.

AND MY OFFICE, OF COURSE, HAS BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THEM MANY, MANY TIMES.

THEY ARE THE VICTIMS IN THIS CASE, RIGHT?

HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THE SUPREME JUDICIAL COURT OR THE TRIAL COURT SAID ABOUT OFFICER MULLIGAN, WHATEVER HIS INTERNAL AFFAIRS OR ANTI-CORRUPTION FILES SAY THAT HAVE COME DURING HIS 20 YEARS OF SERVICE DURING THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT, HE IS A VICTIM OF HOMICIDE.

SO MY OFFICE HAS A CLOSE CONTACT WITH THE MULLIGAN FAMILY, AND I HAVE PERSONALLY SPOKEN WITH THEM.

>> Braude: WERE THEY OKAY WITH THIS DECISION BY YOU?

>> NO.

THEY ARE VERY UPSET.

THEY ARE UPSET -- I'VE ONLY SPOKEN THEM TO THEM SINCE BEING THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY ONCE, AS A RESULT OF SEAN'S ATTORNEY FILING THIS MOTION AND US MAKING A DECISION TO RESPOND, WHICH WE WERE LEGALLY OBLIGATED TO.

>> Braude: YEAH.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THEY WERE SPOKEN TO OR WHAT THEIR POSITION WAS WHEN THE MURDER AND THE ARMED ROBBERY WERE OVERTURNED, AND THEN NULL PROCESSED.

BUT I KNOW THEY WERE UNHAPPY THAT I WAS LOOKING AT ALL OF THE CORRUPTION AND THE PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT, AND THEY ARE VERY, VERY UPSET ABOUT THE RESULTS.

>> Braude: SO IF JUDGE ALMAN AGREES WITH YOU AND THE DEFENSE, NOT ONLY WILL THE CHARGES BE DROPPED, BUT THERE IS A DECENT SHOT THAT ELLIS WILL FILE A WRONGFUL CONVICTION CASE.

I'M GUESSING, BASED ON YOUR PLEADING, YOU AGREE HE WAS WRONGFULLY CONVICTED.

SHOULD HE BE ENTITLED FOR COMPENSATION FOR 22 YEARS OF HIS LIFE BEING TAKEN AWAY AS A RESULT OF THE WORK OF A BURCHL BUNCH OF CORRUPT COPS?

>> AND PROSECUTORS.

>> Braude: AND PROSECUTORS.

>> >> THAT IS NOT MY ROLE TO COMMENT ON THAT.

WITH RESPECT TO THE MATTER BEFORE ME, I WANTED TO BE -- I WANTED TO BE TRUTHFUL.

I DID NOT WANT TO WILLFULLY LOOK AWAY AND AVOID VERY HARD CONVERSATIONS ABOUT MAKING SURE THAT THE MISTAKES WE MADE WERE RECTIFIED AND MAKING SURE THAT THERE WERE POSITIONS AND POLICIES IN PLACE WHERE WE CAN NEVER HAVE ANOTHER SITUATION LIKE THIS AT THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT OR IN THE SUFFOLK D.A.

'S OFFICE.

I LEAVE IT TO SEAN'S VERY CAPABLE LAWYER TO SEE IF SHE IS GOING TO FILE A 1983 CLAIM AND BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> Braude: BUT YOU'RE NOT JUST A DISTRICT ATTORNEY.

YOU'RE A CITIZEN OF THE COMMONWEALTH.

YOU DON'T HAVE AN OPINION ON WHETHER TAKING 22 YEARS OUT OF SOMEONE'S LIFE IS WORTHY OF COMPREHENSION?

>> I CERTAINLY KNOW THAT THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE THAT THIS ATTORNEY HAS REPRESENTED WHO -- SHE'S BEEN SUCCESSFUL.

SHE IS AN EXCELLENT LAWYER.

>> Braude: OKAY.

>> LISTEN, THIS LEVEL OF CORRUPTION, I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS LEVEL OF CORRUPTION.

SO, YOU KNOW -- BUT THAT IS NOT MY PLACE TO SAY.

WHAT I CAN TELL YOU, JIM, IS I AM REALLY -- I WAS ASHAMED WHEN I READ THIS FOR THERE WAS VIRTUALLY NO INTEGRITY IN THIS PROCESS.

AND I BELIEVE THIS PLEADING THAT I FILED IS HOPEFULLY GOING TO START BRINGING INTEGRITY BACK, OR CERTAINLY WITH RESPECT TO THIS CASE.

>> Braude: SO A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, WHEN THE MURDER CASE, THE INTERIM D.A.

DECIDED NOT TO TRY THE MURDER CASE.

WILLIE GROSS, THE POLICE COMMISSIONER, HAD THIS TO SAY ABOUT THE DECISION.

>> SEAN ELLIS IS CULPABLE.

WHAT DOES THE EVIDENCE LOOK LIKE AFTER 25 YEARS, THE WITNESSES AND THE STRENGTH, AND A DECISION WAS BASED UPON THAT, NOT INNOCENCE AT ALL.

>> Braude: AND TODAY, IN AN ECHO OF WHAT COMMISSIONER GROSS SAID, SUPERINTENDENT AND CHIEF GREGORY LONG ISSUED A STATEMENT FOR THE BOSTON POLICE.

"THREE DETECTIVES NOT ONLY DISGRACED THEMSELVES, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THEIR CONDUCT WAS USED TO TARNISH THE REPUTATION OF THE ENTIRE DEPARTMENT, THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTMENT DOES NOT AND WILL NOT TOLERATE CORRUPTION.

RECOGNIZING THE ISSUES THAT SURROUND THIS CASE, THE BOSTON POLICE DEPARTENT'S BELIEF REMAINS THE SAME: THERE WAS SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT A CONVICTION FOR ILLEGAL FIREARM POSSESSION."

WHAT IS YOUR IS REACTION TO WHAT CHIEF LONG HAD TO SAY?

>> I'M ACTUALLY IMPRESSED WITH THAT STATEMENT BY ACTING COMMISSIONER LONG.

I WANT YOU TO KNOW I HAD A LONG CONVERSATION WITH HIM PRIOR TO FILING THIS BECAUSE I THINK THAT IS APPROPRIATE, TO TELL HIM WHAT I WAS CONCERNED WITH, AND WHAT I PLANNED ON DOING.

AND HE DID, UNLIKE OTHERS THAT HAVE NOT ACKNOWLEDGED FULLY.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A FULL ACKNOWLEDGMENT AND A FULL STOP OF THE CORRUPTION THAT WAS NOT ONLY DONE BY THESE THREE, BUT CONDONED, RIGHT, AND WIDELY KNOWN AND WIDESPREAD, AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS CANCEROUS THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE TIME.

>> Braude: YEAH, BUT, IF I MAY, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, HE IS CONDONING IT.

YOU PRAISED THE FIRST HALF OF WHAT HE SAID, HE GOES ON TO SAY, ESSENTIALLY, BY MY READING, DESPITE THAT CORRUPTION WHICH YOU OBVIOUSLY HIGHLIGHT, DESPITE THAT CORRUPTION, GUILTY AS CHARGED.

I REMEMBER YOUR RACE, WHEN YOU WERE RUNNING FOR OFFICE, WHEN A POLICE LEADERSHIP, AND NOT JUST HERE, CAN ALMOST NEVER AGREE THERE IS SUCH A THING AS A WRONGFUL CONVICTION, WHY CAN AN AVERAGE PERSON BELIEVE THAT THEIR JOB -- THEIR GOAL IS TO SEEK TRUTH RATHER THAN TO SEEK YET ANOTHER CONVICTION?

>> DO YOU WANT TO RUN FOR DISTRICT ATTORNEY, JIM?

>> Braude: NO, I DON'T WANT TO RUN FOR ANYTHING, BUT THANK YOU.

>> BUT HEAR ME, THOUGH.

I DO THINK WE HAVE TO GIVE CREDIT WHERE IT IS DUE.

THE COMMISSIONER SAID IT WAS DISGRACEFUL BEHAVIOR.

>> Braude: HE DID.

>> THIS IS THE STATUS QUO.

THIS IS WHAT OUR SYSTEM ALWAYS LIKE TO DO.

WE LIKE TO SAY DUKE AND FERROCK WERE TERRIBLE, BUT THESE CONVICTIONS, WE'RE GOING TO STAND BEHIND THEM.

IF WE HAD DONE WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE DONE AND SAID ANYTHING THESE WOMEN TOUCHED NEEDS TO BE DISMISSED, AND WE NEED TO PUT IN PLACES AUDIT FUNCTIONS SO IT NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN, WE WOULD HAVE SAVED THE COMMONWEALTH TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF WORK.

BUT WHAT WE DO IS WE ALWAYS LOOK FOR A WAY TO TRY TO CONDONE.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SAY RIGHT NOW IS THE NCAA HAS IT RIGHT SOMETIMES.

WHEN YOU ARE TAKING MONEY FROM A BOOSTER, JIM, AND I AM AN ALL AMERICAN ATHLETE DOING GREAT THINGS AND WE BOTH WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP ON OUR BASKETBALL TEAM, IT IS TAKEN AWAY WHEN THERE IS CORRUPTION, AND THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

I AM NOT GOING TO PUT MY NAME ON ANYTHING THAT CONDONES THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, THOSE TWO WOMEN WERE THE DRUG LAB WOMEN IN THAT SCANDAL.

HIS LAWYER THANKED YOU TODAY, AND I'M PARAPHRASING FROM ADRIAN WALKER'S COLUMN IN THE GLOBE, THERE ARE OTHER SEAN ELLISES SITTING IN JAIL.

HERE IS WHAT SEAN ELLIS HAD TO SAY WHEN HE WAS WITH ME IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR.

>> THERE IS A PROBLEM IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND WHEN I THINK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE WITHIN THIS CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, IT ISN'T ABOUT SEAN ELLIS.

IT IS ABOUT THOSE WHO CONTINUOUSLY BEING VICTIMIZED BY THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, I KNOW YOU AGREE WITH WHAT SEAN ELLISSETTE SAID,ELLIS SAID, BUT I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT HIS LAWYER SAID, WHY SHOULDN'T EVERY SINGLE CASE HANDLED BY THESE THREE CORRUPT COPS OR THE PROSECUTORS IN THE OFFICE BEFORE YOU, WHY SHOULDN'T EVERY ONE BE RE-EXAMINED TO SEE IF THERE ARE OTHER SEAN ELLISES.

ARE YOU DOING THAT?

>> WE ARE GOING TO BE REACHING OUT TO ANTHONY BENITDETTE, AND THE HEAD OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF CRIMINAL DEFENSE LAWYERS TO DISCUSS A STREAMLINED PROCESS OF THE CASES, AND THERE ARE THREE INDICTED, OR CHARGED, OFFICERS, DETECTIVE THAT WERE IN THIS CASE, AND THERE ARE OTHERS THAT HAVE SOME TAINT ON THEM AS WELL AS A RESULT OF THESE, AND WE WILL ABSOLUTELY BE WORKING WITH THE DEFENSE -- THE CRIMINAL DEFENSE PART TO LOOK INTO THOSE.

>> Braude: HAVE YOU EVER MET SEAN ELLIS, RACHAEL ROLLINS?

>> UM...I HAVE SEEN SEAN ELLIS ONCE IN PERSON, YES.

>> Braude: DO YOU HAVE ANY DESIRE TO TALK TO HIM?

>> UM...I HAVE -- I HAVE -- AFTER JUDGE ALMAN MAKES THIS DECISION, I WOULD BE VERY OPEN TO SPEAKING WITH HIM, AS I HAVE BEEN OPEN TO SPEAKING WITH ARNIE KING AND JAMES WATSON AND PEDRO VALENTIN, AND HOPEFULLY SHERON RAY WHEN HE COMES HOME, AND OTHER PEOPLE.

MR. FOXWORTH, I SAT DOWN AND MET WITH, AND HAD A RESTORATIVE JUSTICE CIRCLE WITH HIM.

SO I WENT TO A NON-PROFIT ONCE AND WALKED IN FOR A TOUR WITH MY SISTER, AND THE PERSON THERE SAYING HELLO, GREETING, WAS SEAN ELLIS.

AND THAT IS THE ONE TIME I'VE MET HIM PHYSICALLY IN PERSON.

WE HAVE ALSO SEEN EACH OTHER AT SPEAKING EVENTS AND OTHER THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> Braude: WELL, I'LL INVITE YOU BOTH ON WHEN THIS CASE IS RESOLVED.

BY THE WAY, HE SAID TO "THE ASSOCIATED PRESS" TODAY HE FINALLY FEELS FREE.

THOSE WERE HIS WORDS.

ADRIAN WALKER IN HIS COLUMN TODAY SAID, IN WHAT WAS AN UNUSUAL MOVE, YOU PERSONALLY SIGNED THE PLEADINGS.

UNUSUAL ITASSUMING IT IS UNUSUAL, WHY DID YOU SIGN THEM YOURSELF.

>> IF THERE IS SAY RETRIBUTION, AND THERE WILL BE, I MADE THIS DECISION AND I STAND BY IT.

I WOULD NEVER WANT SOMEBODY IN MY OFFICE, A YOUNGER LAWYER OR EVEN SOMEBODY WHO HAD NOT RUN FOR OFFICE AND HAD THE TITLE OF DISTRICT ATTORNEY -- WHEN YOU MAKE HARD DECISIONS, YOU STAND BY THEM AND YOU DON'T LET OTHER PEOPLE DO THEM FOR YOU.

YOU PUT YOUR SHOULDERS BACK, YOU GET YOUR HAND OUT, AND YOU SIGN THAT, AND THEN YOU STAND FIRM BEHIND YOUR DECISION, AND THAT'S WHAT I DID.

>> Braude: WHO DO YOU EXPECT RETRIBUTION FROM?

>> THERE WILL BE -- THERE WILL BE PEOPLE THAT ARE VERY UPSET ABOUT THIS, AS DISPLAYED I THINK EVEN BY THE STATEMENT BY THE ACTING COMMISSIONER.

THEY ARE FIRMLY ENTRENCHED IN THE BELIEF THAT WITH ALL OF THIS TAINT AND CORRUPTION AND LIES AND MISCONDUCT, THAT THEY CAN STILL WHITTLE THAT AWAY AND TRY TO BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ENOUGH FOR A CONVICTION.

AND, YOU KNOW, I BELIEVE THAT THERE WILL BE PUSHBACK AND THERE WILL BE FALLOUT, I DO.

>> Braude: RACHAEL ROLLINS, I REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR GENEROUS GIVING OF TIME.

THANKS SO MUCH.

TALK TO YOU AGAIN SOON.

>> YOU BET.

THANK YOU, JIM.

>> Braude: THREE MONTHS INTO THE STATE'S VACCINE ROLLOUT, GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER LAID OUT A TIMELINE TODAY FOR WHEN EVERYONE IN THE STATE WILL BE ELIGIBLE TO GET THEIR SHOTS.

BEGINNING ON MONDAY, PEOPLE 60 YEARS AND OLDER CAN START SIGNING UP FOR APPOINTMENTS, ALONG WITH SOME GROUPS OF FRONTLINE WORKERS, INCLUDING RESTAURANT, GROCERY, AND CONVENIENCE STORE AND PUBLIC TRANSIT WORKERS.

ON APRIL 5, PEOPLE 55 YEARS AND OLDER AND THOSE WITH ONE CO-MORBIDITY WILL BECOME ELIGIBLE.

AND TWO WEEKS AFTER THAT, A LITTLE OVER A MONTH FROM TODAY, EVERYONE 16 YEARS AND OLDER IN THE STATE WILL BE ABLE TO START GETTING THE VACCINE.

BUT WHILE AN END TO THIS LONG PANDEMIC MIGHT BE IN SIGHT, AS THE GOVERNOR EXPLAINED TODAY, WE'RE BY NO MEANS OUT OF THE WOODS.

>> THE ARRIVAL OF NOT ONE, NOT TWO, BUT THREE VACCINES THAT ARE ALL DEEMED TO BE ENORMOUSLY EFFECTIVE -- LIKE 100% EFFECTIVE -- AT ELIMINATING HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATH IN SUCH A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME IS NOT ONLY A WONDER BUT ALSO A REAL SENSE OF HOPE FOR PEOPLE.

WE DO NEED TO BE VIGILANT AND KEEP OUR GUARD UP BETWEEN NOW AND THE TIME WE CAN GET EVERYBODY VACCINATED.

WE ARE IN A RACE AGAINST TIME.

>> Braude: IT'S A RACE MY NEXT GUEST UNDERSTANDS ALL TOO WELL.

A YEAR AGO, WHEN THE VIRUS WAS FIRST TAKING HOLD IN THE U.S., THE PRESIDENT OF MASS GENERAL HOSPITAL WAS SOUNDING THE ALARM ABOUT JUST HOW BAD THE SITUATION COULD GET FOR HIS STAFF AND FOR THE COUNTRY.

>> MY CONCERN IS I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THIS IN ALMOST A WAR-LIKE STANCE.

>> Braude: NOW, MORE THAN 500,000 DEATHS AND 29 MILLION CASES LATER, IT'S CLEAR HIS PREDICTIONS HAVE PANNED OUT.

AND EVEN AS MILLIONS MORE ARE VACCINATED EACH DAY, DR. PETER SLAVIN IS WARNING THERE ARE STILL MAJOR RISKS AHEAD.

HE JOINS ME.

>> Braude: DOCTOR, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> Doctor: SURE, THANK YOU.

>> Braude: HEALTH CARE WORKERS DID TAKE A WAR-LIKE STANCE.

THE FEDERAL AND MANY STATE GOVERNMENTS DID NOT.

DID YOU EVER IMAGINE THAT A PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS COULD BECOME SO POLITICIZED?

>> Doctor: NOT REALLY.

IT WAS ONE OF THE MORE UNFORTUNATE ASPECTS OF THE PAST YEAR THAT THIS HUGE PUBLIC HEALTH CRISIS TOOK ON SUCH POLITICAL DIMENSIONS.

THERE WERE OTHER NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF THIS, THE LARGE NUMBER OF DEATHS WE'VE SEEN, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME AMAZING THINGS THAT HAVE COME ABOUT THIS.

EVERYBODY GETTING THE CHANCE TO SEE THE RESILIENCY AND COURAGE OF HEALTH CARE WORKERS AROUND THE WORLD, AND ALSO THE MIRACLE OF SCIENCE THAT HAS NOW BROUGHT US VACCINES JUST A LITTLE OVER A YEAR AFTER THIS BEGAN.

>> Braude: LET'S TALK ABOUT THE HEALTH CARE WORKERS FOR A MINUTE.

I WOULD ASK YOU AGAIN, COULD YOU EVER HAVE IMAGINED BEING IN A STATE OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS FOR A YEAR.

WHAT IS THE LONG-TERM IMPACT OF HEALTH CARE WORKERS, LIKE THE ONES WHOM YOU WORK WITH, WHO WERE UNDER INCREDIBLE STRESS 24/7, OCCASIONALLY FORCED TO WORK IN DANGEROUS CONDITIONS.

THAT DOESN'T JUST DISAPPEAR WHEN THE SWITCH IS FLIPPED.

>> Doctor: HEALTH CARE WORKERS HAVE BEEN THROUGH THE MILL THIS MAST PAST YEAR, ESPECIALLY EARLY ON WHEN WE DON'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT THIS VIRUS AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW WELL THE PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT WOULD PROTECT THEM.

IT WAS A HORRIBLE SITUATION FOR THEM TO BE IN.

THEY HAVE SEEN SO MUCH SUFFERING, AND PEOPLE SUFFERING ALONE, WITHOUT FAMILY MEMBERS AT THEIR SIDES.

NONETHELESS, I'M JUST AMAZED AT THEIR RESILIENCE.

I'VE BEEN SPENDING A LOT OF TIME VISITING STAFF AT THE HOSPITAL TODAY, THROUGHOUT THESE DAYS, AND I'M JUST AMAZED AT HOW IT SEEMS ALMOST BACK TO NORMAL NOW.

PEOPLE EXCITED TO TAKE CARE OF PATIENTS, COMFORTABLE WITH THEIR WORK ENVIRONMENT.

IT'S AMAZING TO SEE THEIR STRENGTH, COURAGE, AND THEIR RESILIENCE.

>> Braude: DO YOU EVER QUESTION YOUR OWN JUDGMENT IN A YEAR LIKE THIS, WHEN YOU, ESSENTIALLY, TO USE YOUR IMAGINARY, ARE SENDING THESE PEOPLE INTO BATTLE EVERY SINGLE DAY.

>> Doctor: THERE WAS REALLY NO OTHER CHOICE.

FORTUNATELY, WE NEVER RAN OUT OF P.P.E., AND WE ALWAYS HAD ENOUGH MASKS AND GLOVES AND OTHER EQUIPMENT TO PROTECT OUR STAFF.

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN HORRIBLE IF WE HAD.

THERE ARE ALWAYS THINGS YOU WISH YOU WOULD HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY OVER THE COURSE OF THE YEAR, BUT, AGAIN, I'M VERY PROUD OF OUR RESPONSE AND THE RESPONSE OF OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM.

THERE IS STILL A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE.

>> Braude: LET'S GO TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN, IF WE CAN FOR A SECOND.

WHEN A RESPECTED VOICE, LIKE THE FORMER HEAD OF THE C.D.C.

NODS IN AGREEMENT WHEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SAYS ANYBODY WHO WANTS A TEST CAN GET ONE, EVEN THOUGH THEY CAN'T, AND WHEN A RESPECTED DOCTOR AND RESEARCHER SITS THERE SILENTLY AND JUST SQUIRMS WHEN THE PRESIDENT SUGGESTS BLEACH AS A TREATMENT, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO A CYNICAL PERSON WHO SAYS TO YOU, WHY SHOULD I EVER TRUST THESE KINDS OF LEADERS AGAIN, DOCTOR?

>> Doctor: WE NEED LEADERS WHO ARE WILLING TO TELL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE THE TRUTH.

I'M THRILLED THAT OUR OWN ROCHELLE WALENSKY IS NOW RUNNING THE C.D.C.

I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT SHE WILL DO JUST THAT REGARDLESS OF WHAT POLITICAL PRESSURE SHE MAY BE EXPERIENCING.

SO WE NEED PEOPLE WITH THAT KIND OF SMARTS, JUDGMENT, AND CHARACTER TO HOLD POSITIONS LIKE THAT.

AND I'M FORTUNATE THAT WE NOW HAVE ONE.

>> Braude: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, WHAT SHE SAID IN A SECOND IN THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

WHAT ASSURANCE IS THERE THAT WE WON'T HAVE DEJAVU ALL OVER AGAIN WITH ANOTHER PRESIDENT WHO FINDS OTHER DOCTORS WHO ARE WILLING TO BE SYCOPHANTS RATHER THAN TRUTH-TELLERS.

>> Doctor: I HOPE WE WOULD HAVE LEARNED OUR LESSON THIS TIME AROUND AND REALIZE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NOT TAKING THIS AS SERIOUSLY AS IT SHOULD ORIGINALLY.

I'M VERY PLEASED ABOUT HOW OUR STATE GOVERNMENT HAS MANAGED THIS FROM THE OUTSET.

BUT THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT WE COULD HAVE DONE A LOT BETTER AS A COUNTRY.

>> Braude: LET'S RETURN TO DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, WHO IS HEAD OF THE C.D.C.

HERE SHE IS, I THINK YESTERDAY, WARNING ABOUT ANOTHER POSSIBLE SURGE AFTER THESE IN MY OPINION GROTESQUELY IRRESPONSIBLE SPRING BREAK EPISODES.

>> I'M PLEADING WITH YOU FOR THE SAKE OF OUR NATION'S HEALTH: THESE SHOULD BE WARNING SIGNS FOR ALL OF US.

CASES CLIMBED LAST SPRING, AGAIN IN THE SUMMER, AND THEY WILL CLIMB NOW IF WE STOP TAKING PRECAUTIONS AS WE CONTINUE TO GET MORE AND MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED.

>> Braude: AND LET'S ADD TO THAT, DOCTOR, THE VARIANTS.

HOW WORRIED ARE YOU?

>> Doctor: I WORRY ABOUT TWO THINGS.

ONE IS POLITICAL LEADERSHIP, LIKE IN TEXAS, THAT DOES NOT TAKE THE RIGHT STEPS, OR YOUNG PEOPLE, LIKE WE'VE SEEN IN FLORIDA, WHO ARE ACTING IRRESPONSIBLY.

THAT IS ONE BIG RISK.

AND THE OTHER ARE THE VARIANTS.

AND THE TWO GO HAND-IN-HAND.

ALL OF THE VARIANTS RIGHT NOW ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THE VACCINES, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE ONE COULD EMERGE THAT ISN'T.

AND THE LONGER WE GIVE THE VIRUS A CHANCE TO SPREAD WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY, THE MORE CHANCE OF A RESISTANT VARIANT THAT WILL EMERGE.

THOSE ARE THE TWO RISKS WE FACE.

I HOPE DESPITE THEM, WE'RE ABLE TO VACCINATE THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY BY THE END OF THIS SUMMER, AND CAN BEGIN TO RETURN TO LIFE AS WE USED TO KNOW IT.

>> Braude: DR. SLAVIN, WHAT DID YOU KNOW THIS YEAR THAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW BEFORE THAT YOU THINK WILL CARRY OVER INTO NEW BEHAVIORS, NEW METHODS OF HELPING PEOPLE IN A POST-PANDEMIC WORLD?

>> Doctor: AGAIN, I WAS REMINDED OF THE INCREDIBLE COURAGE AND DEDICATION OF PEOPLE IN HEALTH CARE.

I WAS ALSO REMINDED OF THE INCREDIBLE CAPACITY FOR INNOVATION THAT EXISTS, NOT ONLY COMING UP WITH NEW DIAGNOSTIC TESTS, TREATMENTS, AND VACCINES, BUT ALSO THIS CHAMBER THAT SOME OF OUR STAFF DEVELOPED THAT ALLOWED OUR STAFF TO DO TESTING OF PATIENTS WITH SOMETHING CALLED THE HEXAPOD.

I SAW THE INNOVATIVE SPIRIT OF THIS COUNTRY AND OF THE HEALTH CARE WORKFORCE AGAIN AND AGAIN.

IT WAS INSPIRATIONAL.

>> Braude: AND AS A PARTICIPANT IN TELEHEALTH, I SHOULD SAY, I'M ASSUMING THAT IS AT LEAST A PIECE OF OUR FUTURE AND ALLOWS -- >> Doctor: IT IS.

>> Braude: AND ALLOWS US TO TREAT FAR MORE PEOPLE.

>> Doctor: ABSOLUTELY.

TELEHEALTH PLAYED AN ENORMOUSLY IMPORTANT ROLE, WHEN PEOPLE COULDN'T COME IN TO SEE THEIR DOCTORS.

TELEHEALTH ENABLED THEM TO CONTINUE TO GET CARE.

>> Braude: DR. SLAVIN, THE LAST THING: SARAH ROSENTHAL FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY AND A GUY ON OUR RADIO SHOW, WROTE A PIECE ABOUT WHAT THEY CALLED COVID REPARATIONS.

AND THEY TALKED ABOUT GOVERNMENT COMPENSATION FOR WHAT THEY DESCRIBED VICTIMS OF PREVENTABLE COVID.

AND THEY TALK ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, THE LONG HAULERS.

PEOPLE WHO WILL BE SUFFERING LONG-TERM EFFECTS FROM THIS VIRUS, FROM CHILDREN, MINORS, WHO HAVE LOST PARENTS TO AGAIN WHAT THEY CALLED A PREVENTABLE COVID.

IS AN IDEA LIKE THAT WORTH CONSIDERING?

>> Doctor: I HAVEN'T SEEN THEIR ARTICLE.

I LOOK FORWARD TO READING IT.

IT IS A CONCEPT I'VE THOUGHT ABOUT.

IT IS HARD TO IMAGINE A SYSTEM OF COMPENSATION AND DISTINGUISH BETWEEN CASES THAT WERE PREVENTABLE VERSUS THOSE THAT WEREN'T.

THIS HAS BEEN A VERY SERIOUS VIRUS, EVEN UNDER THE BEST OF CIRCUMSTANCES, GIVEN THAT IT IS MORE CONTAGIOUS THAN INFLUENZA AND MORE DEADLY THAN INFLUENZA PROBABLY BY A FACTOR OF 10.

PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ARE GOING TO BE HURT QUITE BADLY BY THIS VIRUS.

I THINK IF WE HAD DONE THINGS BETTER, FEWER PEOPLE WOULD HAVE SUFFERED IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT I THINK IT IS HARD TO KNOW WHO THOSE DOCTOR, THANK YOU FOR YOUR THOUGHTS AND YOUR GOOD WORK.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> Doctor: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Braude: AND FINALLY TONIGHT, A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN SENDING IN DURING THESE PANDEMIC TIMES.

BOB SENT US THIS BEAUTIFUL PHOTO OF A NORTHERN FLICKER BIRD ON CAPE COD.

DAVID TOLD US THIS PHOTO OF HIS CAT, MANGO, "SPEAKS FOR ITSELF."

THAT'S ONE MISCHIEVOUS FELINE, DAVID.

AND, LASTLY, ANNE SAYS SHE FOUND THESE PAINTED ROCKS CELEBRATING ST. PATRICK'S DAY IN EASTHAM AND THAT THEY MADE HER SMILE.

THANK YOU ALL FOR SENDING THOSE IN.

IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU'D LIKE TO SHARE WITH US, USE THE ADDRESSES ON YOUR SCREEN.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

NEW YORK MAGAZINE'S REBECCA TRAISTER JOINS ME ON HER DEEP DIVE INTO THE ALLEGATIONS AGAINST NEW YORK GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO AND THE "TOXIC MASCULINE B.S."

THAT ONE FORMER STAFFER TOLD HER DISGUISES A VERY POORLY RUN PLACE.

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND STAY SAFE.

Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org