>> FROM OUR STATE HOUSE STUDIO IN MONTGOMERY, I'M TODD STACY.

WELCOME TO CAPITOL JOURNAL.

THE ALABAMA LEGISLATURE RECONVENED TODAY FOR THE 16TH DAY OF THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

THAT PUTS US INTO THE SECOND HALF, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF NUMBER OF MEETING DAYS.

WE'LL START IN THE SENATE TONIGHT, WHERE LAWMAKERS SPENT MUCH OF THE DAY DEALING WITH OLD BUSINESS LEFT OVER FROM BEFORE THEY WENT ON SPRING BREAK.

TWO CONTROVERSIAL BILLS THAT ORIGINATED IN THE SENATE BUT WERE LATER AMENDED IN THE HOUSE CAME BACK UPSTAIRS TO BE CONSIDERED FOR FINAL PASSAGE.

SENATE BILL 1 FROM SENATOR GARLAN GUDGER SEEKS TO CRACK DOWN ON BALLOT HARVESTING BY MAKING IT A CRIME TO PRE-FILL ANOTHER PERSON'S ABSENTEE BALLOT APPLICATION.

SUPPORTERS SAY THIS CAN HAPPEN ON A MASS BASIS IN WHICH PEOPLE GET MAILED PRE-FILLED ABSENTEE APPLICATIONS.

OPPONENTS SAY SUCH INSTANCES ARE VERY RARE AND DON'T REQUIRE A LEGISLATIVE SOLUTION.

ULTIMATELY, THE REPUBLICAN SUPERMAJORITY PREVAILED AND SENT THE BILL TO THE GOVERNOR.

>> IS -- IS IT A PENALTY FOR SOMEBODY TO HELP SOMEBODY FOR FREE?

>> NOTHING.

>> NO, NOTHING.

>> SOMEBODY CAN TAKE 1500 APPLICATIONS BY THE TIME I GOT THROUGH THIS BILL AND PASS THEM OUT TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS ALL OVER THE STATE.

OKAY?

BUT WHEN YOU GET THROUGH, YOU CANNOT HAVE THAT BALLOT APPLICATION -- NOT THE BALLOT, BALLOT APPLICATION, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IN THIS BILL -- PREFILLED WITH THAT PERSON'S NAME OR WHAT PARTY THEY'RE AFFILIATED WITH.

THERE'S A LOT OF PRESSURE WITH SOME PEOPLE THAT SAY "I WANT YOU TO VOTE THIS WAY," AND HAND THEM THE APPLICATION.

YOU CAN'T DO THAT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE IT BLANK.

>> SENATE BILL 129 FROM STATE SENATOR WILL BARFOOT DEALS WITH DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION POLICIES, OR DEI.

IT WOULD PROHIBIT CERTAIN PUBLIC ENTITIES, INCLUDING COLLEGES, FROM HOUSING DEI PROGRAMS OR OFFICES.

IT WOULD ALSO PROHIBIT THE PROMOTION OF DIVISIVE CONCEPTS IN SCHOOLS AND PUBLIC ENTITIES.

>> MY INTERPRETATION, BECAUSE OF THE WAY I WOULD LIKE TO INTERPRET IT, I'M JUST SAYING THAT, OKAY, A PROGRAM CAN BE PUT ON.

BUT IT CAN'T BE -- IT CAN'T BE A PROGRAM THAT'S EXCLUSIVE FOR ONE SEGMENT.

IT MAY TALK ABOUT ONE SEGMENT.

IT MAY TALK ABOUT THIS, BUT ANYBODY IS OPEN TO ANYBODY TO COME, OR WHO DON'T WANT TO COME.

>> YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S AN EVENT THAT IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNATED FOR, YOU KNOW, FEMALE, YOU KNOW, PARTICIPATION, THAT IT'S -- IT'S SOMETHING THAT IMPACTS FEMALES MAYBE MORE THAN MALES, THERE'S NO EXCLUSION OF MALES.

MALES ARE CERTAINLY WELCOME TO COME TO THAT EVENT.

EVEN THOUGH IT'S DESIGNATED, OR IT IS, YOU KNOW, MIGHT BENEFIT SPECIFICALLY WOMEN.

BUT -- BUT, YOU KNOW, MALES ARE CERTAINLY ABLE TO COME TO THAT.

>> THAT BILL PASSED BY A VOTE OF 24-5 AND ALSO GOES TO THE GOVERNOR.

IN THE HOUSE, LAWMAKERS MOVED METHODICALLY THROUGH A CALENDAR OF MOSTLY NON-CONTROVERSIAL BILLS.

SOME TOLD ME THAT WAS A WELCOME DEVELOPMENT AFTER A TENSE FIRST HALF OF THE SESSION.

FIRST ON THE CALENDAR WAS HOUSE BILL 230 FROM REPRESENTATIVE MARGIE WILCOX.

IT WOULD REMOVE THE REQUIREMENT THAT CORPORATIONS FILE AN ANNUAL REPORT WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE.

THAT REQUIREMENT IS OUTDATED AND DUPLICATIVE, WILCOX ARGUED, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW FILED WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE.

THE BILL IS MEANT TO CUT RED TAPE AND SAVE SMALL BUSINESSES MONEY.

>> BACK IN 2022, WHEN WE PASSED THE BILL LOWERING THE THRESHOLD FOR PEOPLE -- FOR BUSINESSES THAT HAD TO FILE THE BUSINESS PRIVILEGE TAX, WE UNINTENTIONALLY CREATED A REPORT THAT THEY HAD TO GO TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE AND FILE.

AND ONE OF MY CONSTITUENTS CALLED ME A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, JUST VERY UPSET THAT AS A SMALL BUSINESSPERSON, HE WAS HAVING TO GO OVER, ESTABLISH SOME MORE PAPERWORK, AND DO THAT REPORT, AND FELT LIKE IT WAS AN EXTRA STEP THAT BUSINESSES SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GO THROUGH.

>> SO IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE REMOVING REGULATIONS, RIGHT?

>> YES, SIR, WE'RE TRYING TO STREAMLINE -- >> WHY ARE YOU ALSO AGAINST REGULATIONS?

>> WELL -- >> YOU -- YOU'RE A PARTY OF RULES AND ORDER, BUT YOU DON'T LIKE REGULATIONS.

HOW CAN YOU HAVE IT BOTH WAYS?

>> WELL, WE'RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR BUSINESSES -- ALABAMA IS A BUSINESS-FRIENDLY STATE.

AND WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR BUSINESSES DON'T SPEND A LOT OF -- AS MUCH TIME ON PAPERWORK AND MORE TIME GENERATING REVENUE.

>> OH, IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY NOW.

THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE, RIGHT?

>> YES, SIR, TIME IS MONEY WHEN YOU'RE IN SMALL BUSINESS.

I CAN ATTEST TO THAT.

I WAS A SMALL BUSINESSPERSON.

>> AND YOU HAVE A PROFITABLE BUSINESS.

BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE NO PROBLEM DOING -- REGULATING -- GOING TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S OFFICE AND GETTING OUT YOUR LITTLE INFORMATION, DIDN'T YOU?

>> WELL, THAT'S AN EXTRA STEP THAT I DON'T THINK THAT IS NECESSARY.

AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY I BROUGHT THIS.

THIS IS SUPPORTED BY THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT BUSINESSES, THE ALABAMA RETAILER'S ASSOCIATION.

>> THAT BILL PASSED UNANIMOUSLY AND GOES TO THE SENATE.

ALSO ON THE FLOOR TODAY WAS HOUSE BILL 65 FROM REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA DRUMMOND.

IT SEEKS TO CRACK DOWN ON VAPING AMONGST MINORS AND REGULATE THE VAPING INDUSTRY TO ROOT OUT DANGEROUS PRODUCTS.

DRUMMOND HAS TRIED FOR YEARS TO PASS SIMILAR LEGISLATION TO NO AVAIL.

BUT TODAY, THE BILL PASSED UNANIMOUSLY ON THE HOUSE FLOOR.

IT NOW GOES TO THE SENATE.

I'LL SPEAK WITH REPRESENTATIVE DRUMMOND IN MORE DETAIL LATER IN THE SHOW.

THE SENATE FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMITTEE MET TODAY TO CONSIDER MOSTLY NON-CONTROVERSIAL LEGISLATION.

ONE BILL THAT GENERATED DISCUSSION WAS SENATE BILL 167 FROM SENATOR MERIKA COLEMAN.

IT WOULD PROHIBIT ANY STATE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT INCENTIVES FROM BEING GIVEN TO COMPANIES WHO HAVE ENGAGED IN HUMAN TRAFFICKING OR HAVE VIOLATED THE FAIR LABOR STANDARDS ACT.

AND IF COMPANIES ARE FOUND TO BE IN VIOLATION OF EITHER, ANY INCENTIVE DOLLARS COULD BE CLAWED BACK BY THE STATE.

COLEMAN GOT FEEDBACK TODAY FROM FELLOW COMMITTEE MEMBERS WHO HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT AN AMENDMENT.

>> IN THE EVENT THAT A BUSINESS IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA RECEIVED SOME TYPE OF PUBLIC FUNDING, A SUBSIDY, IF IT IS FOUND THAT THAT -- THE SUPPLIERS, THE COMPANY ITSELF, THEY HAVE TURNED A BLIND EYE TO HUMAN TRAFFICKING OR IF THERE HAVE BEEN SOME CHILD LABOR ISSUES, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE RECAPTURE THOSE FUNDS.

THERE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE THE LARGER CORPORATION ACTUALLY OWNS THE SUPPLIER ALSO.

I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT ANYBODY THAT'S IN VIOLATION HAS TO, YOU KNOW, THEY -- THEY HAVE TO ADHERE TO THE SAME RULES.

>> BEING A SUPPLIER OR BEING A SUBSIDIARY, ARE VERY -- VERY DIFFERENT THINGS.

I MEAN, THERE ARE -- THERE ARE PROPERTIES THAT ARE TOYOTA, MAZDA TOYOTA SUPPLIERS THAT ARE IN VIEW OF -- I MEAN, THEIR BUILDING, YOU KNOW, THE MAZDA TOYOTA PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SEE THAT ALL THE TIME.

THEY'RE NOT GOING TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE THAT BUILDING, WHO THEY'RE HIRING OR WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE PENALIZED BECAUSE THE SUBSIDIARY IS A BAD ACTOR.

>> THAT BILL WAS APPROVED BY THE COMMITTEE AND NOW GOES TO THE FULL SENATE.

WHEN WE COME BACK, I'LL SIT DOWN WITH STATE REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA DRUMMOND TO TALK ABOUT HER VAPING LEGISLATION.

AFTER THAT, STATE REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIP RIGSBY IS IN THE STUDIO TO DISCUSS HIS LEGISLATION REGULATING REIMBURSEMENT PAYMENTS FOR PHARMACIES.

STAY WITH US.

>> YOU CAN WATCH PAST EPISODES OF CAPITOL JOURNAL ONLINE AT APTV.ORG.

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KEEP UP WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH CAPITOL JOURNAL.

>> WELCOME BACK TO CAPITOL JOURNAL.

JOINING ME NEXT IS STATE REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA DRUMMOND FROM MOBILE.

THANKS FOR COMING ON THE SHOW >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> ALWAYS ENJOY HAVING YOU ON.

ONE OF A LOT OF THINGS TO TALK ABOUT, BUT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE BILL THAT YOU HAD ON THE FLOOR TODAY.

IT'S BEEN THERE BEFORE.

HAVING TO DO WITH VAPING.

HOUSE BILL 65, WHEN IT COMES TO MINORS.

WALK THROUGH WHAT YOUR BILL DOES >> FIRST, IT PROHIBITS MINORS FROM UNDER THE AGE OF 21 FROM HAVING ACCESS TO VAPING PRODUCTS.

AND YOU WILL SEE A VERY CREATIVE DEFINITION, FOR THOSE ONES ON THE SHELVES THAT ARE THROWAWAYS.

BUT THE BIGGEST THING THIS BILL IS GOING TO DO, IT'S GOING TO REGULATE VAPING OF THOSE ILLEGAL ITEMS THAT WE'RE FINDING ON CONVENIENCE STORE SHELVES AND OTHER PLACES THAT ARE VERY ACCESSIBLE TO YOUNG PEOPLE.

I MEAN, THESE ITEMS ARE BEING PUSHED BY FOLKS IN CHINA AND MEXICO, AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S INSIDE OF THEM.

>> THESE ARE THINGS YOU KIND OF SEE AT LIKE A GAS STATION OR SOMETHING, AND THEY'RE FLASHY -- >> AND THEY COME IN ALL KINDS OF FLAVORS.

AND THEY'RE MARKETED TO YOUNG PEOPLE.

SO THIS IS A VERY COMPREHENSIVE BILL.

IT IS GOING TO GIVE ALABAMA THE TOOL TO REGULATE.

WE'VE HAD, FROM ALL THE WAY TO THE BEACHES IN SOUTH ALABAMA TO THE WIREGRASS, TO HERE IN MONTGOMERY, ALL THE WAY TO HUNTSVILLE, TO THE SPACE CAMP.

I'VE GOTTEN CALLS WHERE CHILDREN ARE EITHER GETTING SICK OR THEY'RE DYING.

IT'S TIME FOR ALABAMA -- IT'S REALLY IN A CRISIS MODE AS IT RELATES TO YOUTH OF THE STATE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DATA, THE DATA SHOWS THAT TOBACCO USE IS DOWN, AND VAPING IS UP.

WHAT THIS BILL WILL DO, IT WILL NOT ONLY PUT BOOTS ON THE GROUND, WHICH WILL GIVE FUNDING TO ABC AND ALEA TO GO INTO THE ESTABLISHMENT AND ALL THESE ILLEGAL PRODUCTS JUST SHOWING UP ON THE SHELVES, THEY WILL HAVE THE TOOLS THEY NEED TO REMOVE THEM.

>> VAPING IS AMAZING.

IT HAS EXPLODED AMONG THE YOUTH.

I SAW THE DOCUMENTARY ON NETFLIX ABOUT JEWELL AND WHAT THEY WENT THROUGH.

THERE'S WIDE AGREEMENT THAT SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE TO CRACK DOWN ON TEEN VAPING.

I REMEMBER LAST YEAR, THIS RAN INTO SOME CONTROVERSY BECAUSE THERE WERE SOME TOBACCO COMPANIES KIND OF INVOLVED.

BECAUSE THEY'RE KIND OF MOVING TO THE VAPING SPACE.

>> WELL, LET ME -- LET ME TELL YOU.

THERE WAS A STORY IN ANOTHER PUBLICATION, BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING, A LOT OF MISINFORMATION WAS PUT OUT ON MY PARTICULAR PIECE OF BILL.

MY GOAL IS JUST TO REMOVE THE ILLEGAL STUFF.

I'M NOT TRYING TO PUT ANYBODY OUT OF BUSINESS.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE A PREMARKET REGISTRY WHERE PEOPLE HAVE TO REGISTER WHO ARE IN THAT BUSINESS.

WE HAVE 1,800 PRODUCTS CURRENTLY ON THE REGISTRY THAT ARE PRODUCTS THAT HAVE BEEN FDA APPROVED.

WHAT IS HAPPENING BECAUSE WE ARE NOT REGULATING IT IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA, THOSE IN THE BUSINESS, THE BAD GUYS, THEY'RE BUYING ILLEGAL PRODUCTS FROM CHINA AND MEXICO.

AS A RESULT OF MY BILL IS HAPPENING AGAIN, I HAVE GOTTEN STUFF SAYING "YOU'RE CREATING A BLACK MARKET."

THE FOLKS, THE ILLEGAL PLAYERS, THEY'RE BUILDING A CAMPAIGN OF MISINFORMATION.

IF THEY'RE LEGAL, THEY CAN GET ON THE REGISTRY.

BUT THEY'RE NOT.

THESE ARE PRODUCTS COMING FROM ELSEWHERE THAT CONTAIN SO MANY ILLICIT THINGS THAT MAKE OUR CHILDREN SICK AND MAKING THEM DIE.

THOSE ARE THE ITEMS THAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET OFF THE SHELVES.

>> I SEE.

WHAT ABOUT SCHOOLS?

WOULD THIS BILL HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HELPING SCHOOLS ADDRESS THE PROBLEM?

I REMEMBER IT WAS A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, WE KEPT HEARING FROM PRINCIPALS AND SUPERINTENDENTS ABOUT -- THEY LOOK LIKE LITTLE THUMB DRIVES.

AND CRACKING DOWN ON THAT.

ANY -- ANY WAY TO HELP THE SCHOOLS?

>> WELL, I WORKED WITH THE SCHOOLS ON THIS BILL, BECAUSE NOW YOU WILL SEE IN THE BILL, THE SCHOOLS WILL ALSO HAVE A TOOL FOR THAT YOUNGSTER WHO'S A REPEAT OFFENDER.

BEFORE, THE SCHOOLS DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING THAT IF KIDS WERE ON CAMPUS THAT WERE VAPING, THEY WOULD HAVE TO SUSPEND THEM, AND THEN THEY WOULD SEND THEM TO MUNICIPAL COURT, WHICH IS AN ADULT COURT.

THE BILL WILL HAVE THEM GO TO JUVENILE COURT WHERE THEIR RECORDS ARE EXPUNGED.

AND IF THE KID KEEPS VAPING, THE FIRST TIME THEY GET A WARNING.

THE SECOND TIME, THEY GET COMMUNITY SERVICE.

AND THE THIRD TIME IF THAT KID PERSISTS, INSTEAD OF HAVING HIM SUSPENDED LIKE IF HE WAS DRIVING ON THE INTERSTATE, HE WOULD HAVE TO PAY A $50 FINE -- $100 FINE, I'M SORRY.

$100 FINE.

AND THE SCHOOLS WILL HAVE THE TOOLS TO BE ABLE TO REGULATE IT ON THEIR CAMPUS.

AND THE BOARD OF EDUCATION, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I AM VERY PASSIONATE ABOUT, THEY WILL HAVE FUNDING IN THIS BILL TO CREATE A CURRICULUM SO THAT THEY CAN TAKE YOUNG PEOPLE THROUGH A VAPING EDUCATION PROGRAM, NOT ONLY FOR THEM, BUT ALSO FOR THEIR PARENTS.

>> WELL, AND ALSO, I KNOW WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS BEFORE.

TEEN VAPING IS OBVIOUSLY A PROBLEM.

AT THE SAME TIME, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE USED SOME OF THESE PRODUCTS TO GET OFF CIGARETTES, AND, YOU KNOW, END A DECADES-LONG, YOU KNOW, CIGARETTE ADDICTION.

ISN'T THERE A PLACE FOR THESE PRODUCTS TO BE ON THE MARKETS FOR ADULTS WHO TRULY WANT TO STOP SMOKING?

>> AND THAT'S WHAT MY GOAL IS.

YOU OR ANY OTHER ADULT, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN THE DECISIONS THAT YOU MAKE.

>> IT'S ABOUT MINORS.

>> MINORS.

WHEN YOU SEE THEM, THEIR BRAINS ARE ALREADY VERY FRAGILE.

AND WHAT IS HAPPENING, THEY'RE CREATING LIFELONG ADDICTION.

WE HAVE GOT TO REGULATE THIS.

I MEAN, WHEN I SAY THAT I GOT A SCHOOL SYSTEM IN THE WIREGRASS THAT CALLED ME, AND IT WAS A CITY COUNCIL MEMBER WHO'S ALSO A VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER, AND HE HAD JUST TAKEN THREE KIDS TO THE HOSPITAL.

ONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE DIED HAD HE NOT HAD THE APPROPRIATE DEVICE IN -- IN THEIR POSSESSION TO BE ABLE TO INJECT THIS CHILD.

>> FROM A VAPING -- >> FROM A VAPING PRODUCT.

THEY'VE GOT ALL KINDS OF STUFF IN THESE VAPING PRODUCTS, AND THE REALLY, REALLY SAD THING, WE DON'T KNOW THE LONG-TERM EFFECT OF THESE PRODUCTS.

IT CAN'T BE GOOD.

SO I'M NOT REALLY INTERESTED IN THOSE WHO ARE ADULTS THAT ARE VAPING.

I'M ONLY INTERESTED IN MINORS.

>> IT PASSED THE HOUSE TODAY.

NOW WE'RE IN THE SECOND LEGISLATIVE SESSION SO IT GOES TO THE SENATE AND WE WILL BE WATCHING IT UP THERE.

IT'S ALWAYS INTERESTING IN THE SENATE.

>> IT'S ALWAYS INTERESTING IN THE SENATE, BUT WHAT WE'RE DOING NOW, WE'RE WORKING HARD TO MAKE SURE WE EDUCATE THOSE SENATORS, BECAUSE I'M SURE THEY'RE SEEING THE SAME THING.

WE HAVE THE SAME CONSTITUENTS.

AND THIS IS A PROBLEM THAT ALABAMA HAS GOT TO REGULATE.

WE HAVE A PREMARKET REGISTRY RIGHT NOW THAT'S BEEN ADMINISTERED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE.

AND WE NEED THE ILLEGAL PRODUCTS OFF THE SHELVES.

THAT'S -- THAT'S THE SHORT OF IT.

>> WE'LL BE WATCHING.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

BUT THANKS AGAIN FOR COMING ON THE SHOW.

>> AND THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> YOU CAN WATCH PAST EPISODES OF CAPITOL JOURNAL ONLINE ANY TIME AT ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION'S WEBSITE, APTV.ORG.

CLICK ON THE ONLINE VIDEO TAB ON THE MAIN PAGE.

YOU CAN ALSO CONNECT WITH CAPITOL JOURNAL AND LINK TO PAST EPISODES ON CAPITOL JOURNAL'S FACEBOOK PAGE.

>> WELCOME BACK.

JOINING ME IS STATE REPRESENTATIVE PHILLIP RIGSBY.

I WANTED TO HAVE YOU ON BECAUSE ONE OF YOUR BILLS IS REALLY TOPICAL RIGHT NOW.

HAS TO DO WITH PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGERS.

KIND OF CONTROVERSIAL.

IT WAS IN COMMITTEE I GUESS BEFORE YOU ALL WENT ON SPRING BREAK.

BUT I WANTED TO GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT THIS BILL IS, AND WHAT THE REASON BEHIND IT IS.

>> SURE.

SO AS A PHARMACIST MYSELF, I OWNED A RETAIL PHARMACY UNTIL FEBRUARY OF LAST YEAR.

MY PHARMACY EXPERIENCED LOW REIMBURSEMENTS, UNDERPAYMENT FOR THE PRESCRIPTIONS THAT I WAS PROVIDING FOR PATIENTS.

AND BECAUSE OF THOSE UNDERREIMBURSEMENTS, I WAS NOT ABLE TO KEEP THAT PHARMACY OPEN AND SOLD IT IN FEBRUARY OF LAST YEAR.

I CURRENTLY OWN A COMPOUNDING PHARMACY THAT'S NOT CONTRACTED WITH ANY COMMERCIAL INSURANCES.

SO THIS BILL WOULD NOT AFFECT ME AT ALL.

IT WAS AN INDUSTRY BILL BROUGHT TO ME BY THE ALABAMA PHARMACY ASSOCIATION, AND IN PHARMACIES RIGHT NOW, PHARMACIES ARE BEING ASKED TO DISPENSE MEDICATIONS UNDER COST OF WHAT THEY'RE PAYING FOR THOSE MEDICATIONS.

BECAUSE OF THE UNDERREIMBURSEMENTS, WE'RE LOSING PHARMACIES IN THE STATE OF ALABAMA.

AND SOME PEOPLE SAY, IS THAT IMPORTANT?

PHARMACIES SERVE ABOUT 5,000 CITIZENS EACH AREA THEY'RE LOCATED.

AND THERE IS GOING TO BE AN ISSUE FOR RURAL PHARMACIES, BECAUSE SOMETIMES THEY ARE THE ONLY PHARMACY LOCATED IN THAT COMMUNITY.

AND THAT LOSS OF ACCESS FOR PATIENTS TO EITHER MEDICATIONS PHARMACIES NOT CARRYING BECAUSE THE REIMBURSEMENTS ARE TOO LOW, OR BECAUSE OF THOSE PHARMACIES CLOSING AND NOW THOSE PHARMACIES HAVE LACK OF ACCESS.

THAT SPURRED THE BILL THAT WE HAVE NOW, HB-238.

AND WHAT THAT BILL DOES, IT PROVIDES A FAIR, TRANSPARENT, REIMBURSEMENT MODEL WHERE THE PHARMACIST IS PAID WHAT'S CALLED AN ACTUAL ACQUISITION COST, THAT ALABAMA MEDICAID USES SINCE 2007, PLUS THE COST OF DISPENSING THAT PRESCRIPTION.

A LOT OF PEOPLE GOT VERY -- I'LL SAY CONFUSED, ABOUT THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION BECAUSE THE NARRATIVE WAS TURNED THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE A TAX ON PRESCRIPTIONS.

>> I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S WHAT IT'S BEEN SAID.

A $10 TAX ON YOUR -- ON EVERY PRESCRIPTION.

SO HOW DO YOU RESPOND TO THAT?

>> YEAH, SO WHAT MOST PATIENTS UNDERSTAND IS WHEN THEY GO TO THE PHARMACY COUNTER AND THEY HAVE A $10 COPAY, WHEN THEY HEARD THE WORD TAX, THEY THOUGHT THAT $10 COPAY WOULD TURN INTO A $20.64 PRESCRIPTION, THAT THE PHARMACY WOULD ADD THAT TAX OR FEE ON TOP OF THEIR CURRENT COPAY.

THAT CAN'T HAPPEN.

PHARMACIES CAN'T CHANGE THEM.

BUT IT CHANGED THE REIMBURSEMENT MODEL.

INSTEAD OF CALCULATING THE PRICES THE WAY THAT THEY ARE CALCULATED NOW, THIS BILL SET UP A NEW CALCULATION MODEL WHICH IS CALLED A COST-PLUS MODEL THAT COVERS THE COST THAT THE PHARMACY PAYS FOR THE MEDICINE.

OF IF THAT'S ALL THEY WERE PAID, A NET ZERO RETURN.

AND NO BUSINESS CAN OPERATE ON A NET ZERO.

BUT THE $10.64 FEE WAS TO COVER THE COST OF FILLING THAT PRESCRIPTION.

THAT'S YOUR RENT, PAYROLL, LIGHTS, THE COMPUTER SOFTWARE.

AND THAT $10.64 IS NOT PROFIT IN THE PHARMACIST'S POCKET.

I HEARD THAT, THAT THE PHARMACISTS ARE TRYING TO GET RICH FROM THIS.

BUT THAT COVERS THE COST OF FILLING THAT PRESCRIPTION AND THAT'S WHAT THE BILL DOES.

NONE OF THAT IN THIS BILL.

THERE'S NO VERBIAGE OF TAX IN THE BILL.

BUT IT SAID THAT THE PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGER HAD TO PAY THE PHARMACY THE COST OF THE MEDICINE PLUS THE COST TO DISPENSE THE MEDICINE.

AND THAT'S ALL IT SAID.

THE OPPONENTS OF THIS BILL TWISTED THAT.

WHEN THERE'S A LACK OF EDUCATION OR A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING, THAT BREEDS FEAR.

AND I THINK A LOT OF PATIENTS AND A LOT OF CITIZENS FELT THAT FEAR WHEN THEY HEARD THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE AN ADDITIONAL TACTICS.

AND AS A CONSERVATIVE LAWMAKER, I WOULD NEVER SUPPORT ANYTHING THAT WOULD INCREASE, ESPECIALLY HEALTH CARE COSTS BECAUSE I'M A HEALTH CARE PROVIDER.

I GOT INTO THE PHARMACY TO SERVE PATIENTS.

THE PROBLEM THAT WE'RE SEEING, PHARMACIES ARE NOT BEING ABLE TO SERVE PATIENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO KEEP THEIR DOORS OPEN BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT BEING PAID FOR THE PRESCRIPTION AND THE SERVICES THAT THEY'RE PROVIDING.

AND THAT'S WHERE HB-238 CAME FROM.

>> SO IT GOT THROUGH COMMITTEE.

WHERE ARE WE NOW?

WHERE'S THIS BILL NOW?

DO YOU EXPECT IT TO HAVE THE LEGS THAT IT NEEDS TO PASS IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SESSION?

>> I DON'T -- I DON'T THINK AT THIS POINT THAT'S GOING TO BE WHERE WE HEAD WITH THIS PIECE OF LEGISLATION.

I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE TABLE WITH ALL THOSE WHO ARE INVOLVED, THE PBM'S, THE INSURANCE, PHARMACIES, WHOLESALERS.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE DISCUSSION -- >> A LOT OF PEOPLE AT THE TABLE WHEN IT COMES TO THE CHAIN OF INDUSTRIES, PEOPLE THAT ARE INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS.

>> WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE A MEETING THIS MORNING WITH THE SPEAKER, AND WE HAD ABOUT 35 PEOPLE IN THAT ROOM.

>> WOW.

>> IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF INGENUITY, A LOT OF DISCUSSION, TRANSPARENCY.

THAT WAS ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS BILL.

IT DID INCREASE SOME TRANSPARENCY WITH REBATES AND PREVENTING SPREAD PRICING, WHERE AN EMPLOYER PAYS ONE COST FOR THE MEDICINE AND THE PHARMACY IS REIMBURSED A LOWER COST, AND THE PBM KEEPS THE PROFIT IN THE MIDDLE.

AND SO THERE'S OTHER THINGS ABOUT THIS BILL, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS.

WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT PREVENTING PHARMACIES FROM CLOSING.

WE'RE GOING TO BE TURNING A HUGE LABOR FORCE WORK BILL, WORKFORCE LABOR BILL.

>> RIGHT.

>> AND WE CAN'T BE FOR A WORKFORCE AND ALLOW PHARMACIES TO CLOSE.

>> WELL, OKAY.

COMING OUT OF THAT MEETING, GIVEN ALL OF THE INDUSTRIES INVOLVED, YOU TALK ABOUT HOSPITALS, PHARMACY, ALL OF IT.

DO YOU FEEL LIKE THERE'S UNDERSTANDING TO WHAT YOU WERE ORIGINALLY SAYING ABOUT THE PROBLEM?

IS THAT -- IN TERMS OF PHARMACIES BEING ABLE TO SURVIVE AND -- BECAUSE IT IS A BUSINESS AT THE END OF THE DAY.

YOU'VE GOT TO TURN SOME PROFIT.

DO YOU THINK THERE'S UNDERSTANDING ABOUT THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM?

ANY AGREEMENT THERE?

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LOT OF EDUCATION.

I THINK THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE MANY ASPECTS TO THIS BILL.

IF YOU START LOOKING AT THE SUPPLY CHAIN FROM THE MANUFACTURER TO THE WHOLE SELLER TO THE PBM, TO THE INSURANCE, THE PATIENT, PHARMACY.

THERE'S A LOT OF STEPS WHERE, YOU KNOW, PATIENT -- OR PERSON A MAY NOT KNOW WHAT PERSON B IS DO.

PERSON B MIGHT NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT PERSON C IS DOING.

WE NEED TO HAVE ALL THE DISCIPLINES AT THE TABLE TO UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND ALSO, THE PEOPLE OF ALABAMA HAVE TO BE EDUCATED ON HOW PHARMACIES ARE REIMBURSED.

MOST PATIENTS UNDERSTAND THEY GO TO THE PHARMACY, THEY USE THEIR INSURANCE CARD, THEY PAY A COPAY.

UNFORTUNATELY, PATIENTS ARE SEALING THOSE COPAYS GO UP.

HEALTH CARE COSTS ARE GOING UP.

PRICES OF PRESCRIPTION ARE GOING UP.

MANUFACTURING PRICES ARE GOING UP.

AND I HOPE THAT WE CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT ALL THAT, NOT JUST THE REIMBURSEMENT MODELS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN THIS BILL.

BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, WHY IS HEALTH CARE COSTS GOING ON?

WHY ARE PREMIUMS GOING UP?

AND I THINK THERE'S -- A LOT MORE SMARTER PEOPLE THAN ME WHO CAN COME TO THAT TABLE AND START TO HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS, AND MAYBE GET DOWN TO WHERE WE CAN HAVE A SOLUTION AND NOT JUST A FIX.

AND I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS WE DIDN'T WANT TO HAPPEN WITH 238.

WE THOUGHT THAT WAS GOING TO BE A -- A LONG-TERM SOLUTION, BUT THERE JUST SEEMS TO BE A MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT HOW THAT BILL WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO REEDUCATE NOT ONLY THE INDUSTRY, AND UNDERSTAND ALL THE ASPECTS OF THAT, BUT REEDUCATE THE CITIZENS AND THE PATIENTS, TO UNDERSTAND WHY ARE IT IS PHARMACIES ARE LOSING MONEY.

WHY PHARMACIES ARE CLOSING.

WE'VE LOST 300 PHARMACIES IN THE LAST SIX YEARS IN ALABAMA.

WE'RE ANTICIPATING ANOTHER 50 TO 75 THIS YEAR IN ALABAMA.

UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF THOSE ARE GOING TO BE IN RURAL ALABAMA.

AND THOSE -- THOSE COMMUNITIES DON'T HAVE THREE AND FOUR PHARMACIES LIKE WE DO UP IN HUNTSVILLE.

WHEN THAT ONE PHARMACY LEAVES, THAT'S AN ACCESS ISSUE, AND WE WANT TO PREVENT THAT.

I HOPE WE CAN FIND THOSE SOLUTIONS.

I'M HOPING WE CAN FIND WAYS THAT WE CAN NOT ONLY KEEP ACCESS FOR PATIENTS, BUT ALSO SUPPORT THE INDUSTRY THAT I'VE COME TO LOVE, WHICH IS PHARMACY.

>> WELL, I DO THINK YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS A PHARMACIST IS VERY HELPFUL IN THIS DISCUSSION MOVING FORWARD, AND WE WILL.

WE WILL FOLLOW THIS.

IT'S A PRETTY BIG DEAL.

WE'RE OUT OF TIME.

THANK YOU FOR COMING TO THE SHOW.

>> I APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME.

>> WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> ST. STEPHENS WAS CHOSEN AS ALABAMA'S FIRST SEAT OF GOVERNMENT AND SERVED AS THE CAPITAL BETWEEN 1817 AND '19.

THEY MET IN THE DOUGLAS HOTEL.

THE SETTLEMENT SAT OVERLOOKING THE TOMBIGBEE RIVER.

THIS IS AN HISTORICAL PARK AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL SITE.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW FOR TONIGHT.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL BE BACK TOMORROW NIGHT AT THE SAME TIME RIGHT HERE ON ALABAMA PUBLIC TELEVISION.

AND FOR THOSE IN THE MONTGOMERY AREA, DON'T FORGET THAT TOMORROW IS THE BATTLE FOR GOAT HILL LEGISLATIVE SOFTBALL GAME.

THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE WILL FACE OFF AT RIVERWALK STADIUM FOR STATE HOUSE BRAGGING RIGHTS.

THE GAME BEGINS AT 5:30.

TICKETS ARE $10, AND THE PROCEEDS GO TOWARDS THE BIG OAK RANCH.

FOR OUR CAPITOL JOURNAL TEAM, I'M TODD STACY.