>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," THE PUSH TO CLOSE THE HUGE RACE GAP IN COVID VACCINATIONS.

WE'LL HEAR FROM TWO BOSTON COMMUNITY LEADERS ON WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND WHAT MORE NEEDS TO HAPPEN.

THEN, LATER, TWO SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS STEPPING UP WHERE THE STATE HAS FALLEN DOWN: SIMPLIFYING THE VACCINE SIGN-UP PROCESS AND HELPING MANY PEOPLE EASILY FIND APPOINTMENTS WITHOUT SPENDING ALL OF MARCH ON THEIR COMPUTERS.

AND, FINALLY, REMEMBERING SOME OF THOSE LOST TO COVID.

GOVERNOR CHARLIE BAKER HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT VACCINE EQUITY SINCE DAY ONE, BUT TWO AND A HALF MONTHS INTO THE STATE'S ROLLOUT, CLEAR DIVIDES REMAIN.

STATEWIDE, BLACK AND HISPANIC PEOPLE MAKE UP 8% AND 12% OF THE POPULATION, BUT JUST 5% AND 4% OF THOSE WHO HAVE GOTTEN AT LEAST ONE DOSE, RESPECTIVELY, WHILE WHITE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN THEIR FIRST SHOT ARE NEARLY EVEN WITH THEIR SHARE OF THE POPULATION.

AND IN BOSTON, BLACK AND HISPANIC PEOPLE MAKE UP 25% AND 20% OF THE POPULATION, BUT JUST 18% AND 9% OF FIRST DOSES, WITH WHITE PEOPLE GETTING AN OUTSIZED SHARE OF THE VACCINATIONS.

NUMBERS LIKE THOSE HAVE PROMPTED A RENEWED PUSH FROM THE GOVERNOR IN RECENT WEEKS TO WORK WITH LOCAL LEADERS AND COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS TO CLOSE THE GAP.

AS HE HIGHLIGHTED YESTERDAY FROM THE MORNING STAR BAPTIST CHURCH, WHERE THE MATTAPAN COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTER HAS BEEN RUNNING A CLINIC FOR THE FEW WEEKS.

>> WITH THIS CLINIC, THEY'RE WORKING TO BREAK DOWN BARRIERS TO THE VACCINE AND TO IMPROVE HEALTH OUTCOMES FOR PEOPLE HERE AND ELSEWHERE.

WE RECOGNIZE THERE'S A HESITANCY AROUND THE VACCINE, AND MUCH OF THIS HESITANCY IS BORNE OF GENERATIONS OF SYSTEMIC RACISM AND DISPROPORTIONATE ACCESS TO QUALITY MEDICAL CARE IN BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES.

THESE TRUSTED NEIGHBORHOOD-BASED INSTITUTIONS ARE A KEY PART OF HOW WE OVERCOME THAT CHALLENGE.

>> YOU CAN TRUST THIS CHURCH, YOU CAN TRUST THESE INSTITUTIONS, AND YOU CAN TRUST THIS VACCINATION.

PEOPLE ARE DOING WELL HERE, AND PEOPLE ARE CONTINUING TO COME.

THE NUMBERS ARE RISING MORE AND MORE.

>> Braude: THE MORNING STAR BAPTIST LOCATION IS ONE OF SEVEN VACCINE SITES BEING RUN BY THE COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS IN BOSTON.

AND THE MAN YOU JUST HEARD WAS BISHOP JOHN BORDERS, WHO JOINS ME NOW, ALONG WITH SANDRA COTTERELL, C.E.O.

OF CODMAN SQUARE HEALTH CENTER, WHICH IS RUNNING ANOTHER SITE OUT OF RUSSELL AUDITORIUM IN DORCHESTER, ALONG WITH BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER.

>> Braude: SANDRA AND REVEREND, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW -- IT IS GREAT TO SEE BOTH OF YOU.

TWO ISSUES CONFRONTING PARTICULARLY COMMUNITIES OF COLOR ARE ACCESS AND HESITANCY, AND YOU'RE BOTH ADDRESSING BOTH.

CAN WE START WITH ACCESS FOR A SECOND.

REVEREND, HOW DID THE CHURCH BECOME A VACCINATION SITE?

>> A REPRESENTATIVE AND COMMUNITY RELATIONS FROM B.M.C., BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER, ASKED IF WE WOULD BE CONCERNED, IF WE WOULD BE WILLING TO CONSIDER MORNING STAR AS A VACCINATION SITE.

THE CONTEXT IS VERY INTERESTING BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN CLOSED TO PUBLIC WORSHIP SINCE MARCH OF 2020.

SO THIS, IN MY OPINION, WAS A CRUCIAL STEP FORWARD IN OPENING AGAIN TO THE COMMUNITY, TO THE PUBLIC, FOR PUBLIC WORSHIP.

AND THEN WHEN I THINK ABOUT ALL OF THE VARIOUS FUNERALS THAT WE'VE HAD, WHERE WE COULD NOT HAVE CONGREGANTS GATHER, IT WAS HEARTBREAKING, SO WE JUMPED AT THE OPPORTUNITY.

ALSO, THERE WERE MANY SENIORS FROM THE MATTAPAN COMMUNITY INTERESTED IN THE VACCINE.

>> Braude: SANDRA COTTERELL, HOW DID RUSSELL AUDITORIUM BECOME A VACCINATION SITE?

>> SO WE STARTED DOING TESTING AT THE RUSSELL AUDITORIUM.

SO IN THE EARLY PHASES OF COVID, WHEN THE RUSSELL BECAME OUR TESTING SITE, AND WE ALSO WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE THAT A LOCATION THAT WAS ACCESSIBLE TO THE COMMUNITY, BUT THAT COULD ALSO BE A PLACE TO DO A LARGE NUMBER OF VACCINATIONS.

AND THE HEALTH CENTER IS A BUSY PLACE, AND SO SINCE THAT HAS BEEN A GREAT LOCATION FOR OUR TESTING SITE, WE CONVERT THAT THAT INTO OUR COMMUNITY VACCINATION SITE.

AND IT HAS AMPLE PARKING, AND IT WAS A GREAT LOCATION AND IT PROVIDED BETTER ACCESS FOR OUR COMMUNITY.

>> Braude: AND, SANDRA, CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, THE PEOPLE YOU'RE VACCINATING ARE A PRODUCT OF OUTREACH?

YOU'RE REACHING OUT TO THE PATIENTS OF THE CODAM SQUARE HEALTH CENTER AND HOPEFULLY GETTING RESPONSE FROM THEM.

HOW MANY ARE YOU VACCINATING NOW, AND WHAT IS THE ULTIMATE IN TERMS OF NUMBERS?

>> THE SITE ITSELF IS VACCINATING ABOUT 100 TO 150 A DAY, BUT HAS THE CAPACITY TO DO A THOUSAND A DAY.

WE HOPE WE RAMP UP TO THAT THOUSAND IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, BECAUSE WE REALIZE THE QUICKLY WE GET MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED SOONER, THE SOONER WE ARE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE REACHING OUT TO A LOT OF OUR PATIENTS WHO ARE STILL 75PLUS, THOSE THAT ARE IN 65 TO 74, AND THOSE WHO HAVE TWO OR MORE CO-MORBIDITIES.

SO WE'RE CALLING EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM WITH ALSO OUTREACH FROM B.M.C.

CALLING, AND WE'RE ACTUALLY ACTIVELY BOOKING THEM.

SO RIGHT NOW THERE ARE ABOUT 5,000 PATIENTS THAT WE'RE OUTREACHING TO SCHEDULE THEM FOR THAT LOCATION.

>> Braude: REVEREND BORDERS, PEOPLE ARE BOOKING THEM AT THE CHURCH THROUGH BORTION BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER?

>> WELL, BOSTON MEDICAL CENTER DOES HAVEN'T AN ONLINE FORM THAT PEOPLE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF, BUT THEY'RE DIRECTING PEOPLE MAINLY TO THE STATE'S WEBSITE -- >> Braude: I SEE.

>> -- AND PEOPLE ARE SIGNING UP ALL OVER THE STATE.

WE BEGAN WITH A HOPE TO VACCINATE 100 PEOPLE A DAY.

I LOOKED AT THE REGISTRATION TODAY, AND THERE WERE 247 PEOPLE SIGNED UP FOR A VACCINATION TODAY, AND WE'RE LOOKING AS RAMPING UP TO 500 PEOPLE A DAY, POSSIBLY.

>> Braude: REVEREND, HOW DOES IT MAKE YOU FEEL WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE COMING INTO THE CHURCH FOR WHAT IS LIKELY IN MANY CASES LIFE-SAVING HELP?

>> I'M VERY EXCITED.

WE'VE ALWAYS BEEN CONCERNED ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

WE'VE DEALT WITH A LOT OF CRISES AND MAJOR EVENTS IN THE MATTAPAN COMMUNITY IN THE BOSTON AREA OVER THE YEARS.

WE'VE DEALT WITH A LOT OF FUNERALS OF MURDERED VICTIMS AND GANG MEMBERS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO TO BE A PART OF THE HEALING PROCESS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

WE'RE NOT JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE SPIRITUALITY OF PEOPLE.

BUT WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR BODIES AND THEIR STOMACHS.

AT ONE SIDE OF THE BUILDING TODAY, AS I LEFT THE CHURCH JUST AN HOUR AGO, AND A GENTLEMAN WALKED IN TO RECEIVE A FOOD BASKET FROM OUR FOOD PANTRY.

AND THEN I SAID, THANK YOU VERY MUCH, ABOUT TO CLOSE THE DOOR BEHIND HIM, AND HE SAID, NO, WAIT A MINUTE, I'M ALSO HERE FOR MY VACCINATION.

WHEN YOU PUT THOSE THINGS TOGETHER, THAT IS VERY POWERFUL.

>> Braude: SANDRA, IF I COULD TURN TO YOU, LET'S TALK ABOUT HEFLT SEE HESITANCY FOR A MINUTE.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE NUMBERS ON THE SHOW, AND THE HUGE DIVIDE BETWEEN PEOPLE OF COLOR, AMONG BLACK AMERICANS, AND WHAT THEY HAVE LIVED THROUGH AND PEOPLE BEFORE THEM HAVE LIVED THROUGH, WHICH MAKES IT PAINFULLY UNDERSTANDABLE.

BUT I'M GUESSING YOU'RE EXPERIENCING LESS OF THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE DEALING WITH PATIENTS WHO ARE FAMILIAR, AND I ASSUME TRUST YOU?

IS THAT A FAIR ASSUMPTION?

>> I THINK THAT'S A GREAT ASSUMPTION.

I THINK THAT THE HEALTH CENTER HAS BEEN SERVING THE COMMUNITY FOR OVER 40 YEARS.

AND THEY KNOW THEY'RE PROVIDERS.

THEY KNOW THE STAFF.

AND I THINK THAT GOES A LONG WAY IN TERMS OF BREAKING DOWN THOSE BARRIERS OF CONCERN.

AND I THINK, ALSO, MAKING SURE THAT THERE IS ACCESS AND EASY ACCESS.

ATIME YOU PUTANY TIME YOU PUT A BARRIER IN FRONT OF SOMEONE, THAT COULD MAKE IT DIFFICULT.

BUT REACHING OUT TO PEOPLE, AND ONCE THEY SAY THEY'RE READY, THAT GOES A LONG WAY IN TERMS OF WHEN THEY CAN GET THAT APPOINTMENT AND GET IT QUICKLY.

AND I THINK THE MORE AND MORE OF US WHO TAKE THE VACCINE IN THE COMMUNITY AND SHARE OUR STORIES WITH FAMILY AND FRIENDS, THAT WE'VE TAKEN IT, AND WE WANT THEM TO TAKE IT, AND PEOPLE LOOK AT REALLY RETURNING BACK TO SOME LEVEL OF NORMALCY -- ALL OF THAT COMBINED HAS GONE A LONG WAY, I THINK, IN TERMS OF BREAKING DOWN SOME OF THE CONCERNS AROUND HESITANCY.

WHEN I WALK THROUGH THE HEALTH CENTER AND PATIENTS TALK ABOUT WANTING TO SEE THEIR GRANDCHILDREN, WANTING TO GET OUT AND ABOUT AGAIN, WANTING TO GET RID OF THEIR MASKS, THOSE ARE ALL REAL AND TRUE STORIES.

AND I THINK ENGAGING WITH PEOPLE AND BRINGING THAT SENSE OF HOPE I THINK GOES A LONG WAY.

I THINK, AS THE REVEREND SAID, TRUSTED INSTITUTIONS, TRUSTED ORGANIZATIONS, COMMUNITY HEALTH CENTERS, CHURCH LEADERS, AND OUR PROVIDERS THAT THEY KNOW GO A LONG WAY.

>> Braude: REVEREND, WHAT DO YOU SAY TO AN INDIVIDUAL -- LET'S SAY ONE-ON-ONE -- WHO SAYS, I KNOW YOU, I TRUST YOU, I DON'T TRUST THE VACCINE?

>> YOU'RE LEADING TO TWO CONCERNS THAT I HAVE.

I'LL ANSWER THAT QUESTION IF I MAY BEGIN WITH THIS: THE TWO CONCERNS THAT I HAVE ARE THAT THOSE OF THE YOUNGER GENERATION ARE NOT INTERESTED IN TAKING THIS VACCINE, OR AT LEAST THEY WANT TO FIND OUT MORE AND MORE ABOUT THE J & J VACCINE BEFORE THEY TAKE ANY VACCINATIONS.

SO WHAT HAPPENS AFTER WE HAVE VACCINATED THE 75-YEAR-OLDS AND UP, THE 65-YEAR-OLDS AND UP, AND THE 55-YEAR-OLDS AND UP, WILL WE THEN BEGIN TO SEE A DECREASE OF EXPOSURE AND SUPPORT BECAUSE OF THE HESITANCY BECAUSE OF THAT YOUNGER GENERATION?

WE'RE GOING TO USE SOCIAL MEDIA AND A LOT OF ONE-ON-ONE CONTACT TO REACH THAT YOUNGER GENERATION, BUT THAT IS ONE CONCERN I HAVE.

AND THE OTHER CONCERN I HAVE IS THAT BEING A STATEWIDE VACCINATION SITE, MORNING STAR, I SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING FROM AROUND THE CITY, BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE PEOPLE FROM MY OWN COMMUNITY.

I WOULD LIKE TO SATURATE THE PEOPLE OF MATTAPAN, DORCHESTER, AND ROXBURY, WHO WOULD COME TO MORNING STAR FOR THEIR VACCINATION.

>> Braude: REVEREND, ALL I CAN SAY IS HERE IS TO SATURATION.

I HOPE IT HAPPENS.

I WANT TO COMPLIMENT YOU BOTH ON YOUR TERRIFIC WORK AND I HOPE BOTH OF YOUR EFFORTS BECOME A MODEL THROUGHOUT THE CITY AND THE STATE.

SANDRA AND REVEREND, IT IS REALLY GREAT TO SEE YOU BOTH.

THANKS.

>> THANKS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: AS WE'VE SAID, WHILE VACCINE HESITANCY IS ONE REASON WE'RE NOT SEEING EQUITABLE VACCINATION NUMBERS, ANOTHER MAJOR BARRIER FOR MANY HAS BEEN THE REGISTRATION PROCESS ITSELF, SPECIFICALLY THE STATE'S WEBSITE, WHERE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE LOG ON ALL AT ONCE TO VIE FOR THE SAME LIMITED SLOTS, AND END UP DEALING WITH SITE CRASHES AND ASTRONOMICAL WAIT TIMES, WHICH FLUCTUATE FROM MORE THAN A DAY TO FIVE MINUTES AND BACK AGAIN IN JUST A FEW SECONDS.

OH, AND EVEN IF IT IS WORKING, THERE ARE A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT SIGN-UP PAGES THAT ALL REQUIRE YOU TO MANUALLY PUT IN DIFFERENT INDIVIDUAL INFORMATION, OFTEN WAITING TO TELL YOU THERE ARE NO APPOINTMENTS AVAILABLE AFTER YOU'VE COMPLETED ALL THE STEPS.

AND THAT'S JUST THE EXPERIENCE OF PEOPLE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE HOURS OF TIME AT A COMPUTER TO EVEN TRY.

YET DESPITE ALL OF THE MANY, MANY COMPLAINTS, THE STATE HAS BEEN SLOW, AND AT TIMES RELUCTANT, TO CHANGE.

SO OTHERS HAVE STEPPED IN TO FILL THE VOID, LIKE OLIVIA ADAMS, A SOFTWARE DEVELOPER FROM ARLINGTON WHO CREATED MaCovidvaccines.com IN EARLY FEBRUARY, WHILE ON MATERNITY LEAVE, I SHOULD NOTE: AND SOFTWARE ENGINEER DAN CAHOON, WHO MADE THE VACCINE TIME BOT ON TWITTER.

THEY BOTH JOIN ME NOW.

>> Braude: OLIVIA AND DAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PEEG HERE.

>>PEEG HERE.

BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: OLIVIA, WHAT DOES THE WEBSITE DO THAT THE STATE WEBSITE DOES NOT.

>> I THINK COVID VACCINES WILL SCRAPE A BUNCH OF WEBSITES THAT SHOW YOU VACCINE AVAILABILITY ALL ACROSS THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS.

IT WILL CHECK EVERY MINUTE.

DOES C.V.S.

HAVE ANY AVAILABILITY?

AND IT TELLS YOU RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE IF THERE IS ANYTHING AVAILABLE AT THE MOMENT.

>> Braude: BY THE WAY, I'VE BEEN TO YOUR SITE MANY A TIME.

IT IS VERY SIMPLE, I SHOULD SAY, WHICH IS A COMPLIMENT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Braude: WHY DIDN'T THE STATE DO WHAT YOU DO?

>> SO THEY DID, UM, ABOUT A WEEK AFTER I PUBLICIZED MY SITE AND IT BECAME PRETTY WELL-KNOWN IN THE AREA, THE STATE RELEASED THEIR OWN VERSION OF THE WEBSITE, CALLED vacsfinder.org.

BUT IT DOESN'T FIND AS MANY LOCATIONS AS MY WEBSITE DOES, THOUGH.

>> Braude: DAN, LET'S MOVE TO YOU.

YOUR TWITTER BOT, EXPLAIN HOW THAT WORKS?

>> I THINK IT WORKS SIMILARLY TO AN ELEVATED SITE.

IT BASICALLY GOES ON TO THE MASSACHUSETTS WEBSITES AND IT REFRESHES THE PAGE AND IT LOOKS FOR APPOINTMENTS.

AND WHEN IT FINDS A DROP OF NEW APPOINTMENTS, THEN IT SENDS OUT A TWEET ALERTING PEOPLE TO THE NEW APPOINTMENTS SO THEY CAN CLICK ON THE LINK AND GO STRAIGHT TO THE SITE AND SIGN UP THAT WAY.

>> Braude: I KNOW THE STATE IS NOT DOING THAT.

THEY'RE NOT SENDING OUT NOTIFICATIONS ON TWITTER OR ANYTHING ELSE, TELLING YOU THAT THERE IS AN APPOINTMENT AVAILABLE AT THIS SITE.

AND, IN FACT, YOU SAY HOW MANY, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT IS CORRECT.

I DON'T THINK THE STATE HAS A NOTIFICATION SYSTEM, AS FAR AS I KNOW.

I SAW THAT NEED AND FULFILLED IT WITH A TWITTER BOT BECAUSE IT IS EASY, AND PEOPLE CAN SIGN UP, AND IT'S PRETTY EASY TO JUST SUBSCRIBE TO TWEETS.

>> Braude: OLIVIA, I READ YOU WERE GOING TO MEET, I THINK IT WAS SEVERAL WEEKS AGO, WITH SOME OFFICIALS FROM THE COVID WHATEVER IT IS CALLED, COMMUNICATIONS CENTER.

HOW DID THAT GO?

>> THEY MET WITH ME TO INFORM ME THEY WERE COMING OUT WITH THEIR OWN VACCINATION FINDER WEBSITE.

AND WE SHARED INFORMATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THEY SAID THEY WOULD BE GETTING IN TOUCH, AND I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THEM, SO -- >> Braude: THEY HAVE NOT REACHED OUT TO YOU AS A FOLLOW-UP?

>> NO.

>> Braude: I DIDN'T KNOW THAT.

DAN, HAVE YOU HEARD FROM ANYBODY IN THE STATE COVID INFRASTRUCTURE?

>> NO, I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM ANYBODY.

>> Braude: OKAY.

THERE IS A STORY IN TODAY'S GLOBE, WHICH I'M SURE YOU BOTH READ, ABOUT ANOTHER SET OF REAL PEOPLE, AND I MEAN THAT TO DESCRIBE YOU, AND I KNOW, OLIVIA, YOU'RE DOING WORK WITH THEM, TOO, A BUNCH OF VOLUNTEERS CALLED MASS COVID HELP.

IN THAT STORY, IT SAYS THE COVID COMMAND CENTER FOR THE STATE URGES PEOPLE NOT TO USE UNAUTHORIZED, NON-OFFICIAL SOURCES, EVEN THOSE THESE ARE THE SOURCES THAT GOT THEM APPOINTMENTS.

OLIVIA, STARTING WITH YOU, YOU WERE AN UNAUTHORIZED, NON-OFFICIAL SOURCE AS WELL, CORRECT?

>> YES.

AND I THINK IT IS EASY TO KNOW WHAT WEBSITES, LIKE MINE AND DAN'S, THAT THEY ARE RELIABLE BECAUSE WE TAKE YOU STRAIGHT TO THE AUTHORIZED SITE TO SIGN UP FOR A VACCINE APPOINTMENT.

WE DON'T DO IT FOR YOU.

HOWEVER, THE GLOBE ARTICLE TODAY TALKED ABOUT A GROUP OF VOLUNTEERS WHO ARE SIGNING UP PEOPLE FOR THEM ON THEIR BEHALF.

AND WHILE WE, OF COURSE, WANT TO BE CAREFUL OF PEOPLE SCAMMING OTHER PEOPLE AND SHADY BEHAVIOR LIKE THAT, I KNOW DIANA PERSONALLY, AND WE ARE WORKING VERY CLOSELY TOGETHER.

I CAN TELL YOU THEY ARE WORKING WITH THE BEST OF INTENTIONS TO HELP THOSE WHO CAN'T NAVIGATE THE VACCINE APPOINTMENT SYSTEM THEMSELVES, PEOPLE WITH UNRELIABLE NETWORK, THAT WORK LONG HOURS AT THEIR JOBS, AND THEY CAN'T SIT AND CLICK REFRESH FOR FOUR HOURS TO TRY TO GET VACCINATED.

AND THIS IS A QUESTION OF LIFE AND DEATH, TO BE FRANK.

>> Braude: AND MAYBE THEY SHOULD SAY BE CAUTIOUS ABOUT OFFICIAL SOURCES, RATHER THAN NON-OFFICIAL SOURCES.

DAN, I WANT TO DESCRIBE MY EXPERIENCE THIS MORNING, WHICH IS NOT ATYPICAL.

JUST BEFORE I STARTED MY RADIO SHOW, I WENT ON THE STATE'S WEBSITE, AND WENT INTO THE WAITING ROOM THAT WAS MUCH CELEBRATED.

WHEN I WENT ON AS FIRST, THERE WAS A NINE-MINUTE RATE.

AND THEN IT WENT TO A 31-MINUTE WAIT, AND THEN A 1-MINUTE RATE, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN WHAT CAME UP WAS A PAGE THAT LOOKED EXACTLY LIKE THIS ONE, WHERE IT SAID THERE IS GREATER THAN A DAY WAIT.

AND 10 SECONDS LATER IT WENT DOWN TO EIGHT MINUTES.

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

I'M SERIOUS.

I DON'T MEAN THAT FACTITIOUSLY.

OBVIOUSLY THAT IS NOT POSSIBLE, SO WHAT IS HAPPENING?

>> YEAH.

SO I DON'T EXACTLY KNOW HOW THEY'RE CALCULATING THOSE NUMBERS.

MY BEST GUESS IS THEY'RE PROBABLY TAKING A STAB AT ESTIMATING BASED AT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE LOOKING AT THE WEBSITE, HOW LONG IT IS BEFORE YOU CAN SEE IT.

BUT, YEAH, I THINK CERTAINLY IT IS A BIT FRUSTRATING TO SEE NUMBERS FLUCTUATE SO WIDELY AND NOT GO DOWN IN SORT OF A MANNER THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT.

>> Braude: FRUSTRATION -- THE WORD USED IS CALLED A "EUPHEMISM" IS THE PROPER TERM FOR WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED.

OLIVIA, MY SENSE IS THERE ARE TWO PANDEMIC IN THE STATE, COVID-19 ITSELF AND THE REFRESH PANDEMIC.

I JUST DON'T GET THIS.

GOVERNOR BAKER WAS ON OUR RADIO SHOW A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO, AND I ASKED HIM WHY WE DIDN'T HAVE A CENTRALIZED PRE-REGISTRATION SITE.

YOU REGISTER, EXPLAIN WHAT YOUR CONDITIONS ARE, HOW OLD YOU ARE, AND THEN THE STATE REACHES OUT TO YOU BY PHONE, E-MAIL, BY TEXT, SOMETHING LIKE THAT, AND HERE IS WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAD TO SAY TO ME.

>> Governor: WE ARE LOOKING AT THAT.

AND I'LL PROBABLY HAVE MORE TO SAY ABOUT IT OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

WE HAVE WAY MORE SITES, A LOT MORE PEOPLE, AND IT IS A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED TO SET THIS UP IN MASSACHUSETTS', THE WAY YOU WOULD SET IT UP IN A SMALLER STATE.

>> Braude: IN FAIRNESS TO THE GOVERNOR, I MENTIONED WEST VIRGINIA, WHICH IS A SMALLER STATE, VERY NEARBY VIRGINIA, HAS THE PRE-REGISTRATION STATE.

ONE, WHY DON'T WE HAVE IT?

AND, TWO, WOULDN'T THAT ADDRESS THE EQUITY SYSTEM, WHERE LOW INCOME PEOPLE, EVEN IF THEY HAVE ACCESS TO A COMPUTER, DON'T HAVE ALL DAY TO KEEP REFRESHING AND REFRESHING AND REFRESHING, RIGHT?

>> YES, IT WOULD SOLVE THE EQUITY ISSUE, OR CERTAINLY TAKE A LARGE STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION, BECAUSE IT WOULD ALLOW US TO FIGURE OUT WHO WE SHOULD GET VACCINATED AND PRIORITIZE THEM.

WHEN WE RELEASE EVERYONE 65 OR OLDER WITH TWO CO-MORKDZ,CO-CO-MORBIDITIES, WE HAVE WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

SO DIANA AND I I ARE TRYING TO CREATE A SYSTEM THAT WILL BE A FULLY AUTOMATED, PRE-REGISTRATION SYSTEM.

YOU PUT IN YOUR INFORMATION, WE LET YOU KNOW WHEN YOU'RE ELIGIBLE, AND THEN YOU GET AN APPOINTMENT, EITHER BY A HUMAN OR A ROBOT, WHEN THINGS SETTLE DOWN.

I THINK THAT IS THE WAY THAT IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE.

IT IS HARDER TO DO IT THE WAY WE ARE DOING IT BECAUSE WE HAVE TO HOOK INTO 100 DIFFERENT SYSTEMS.

WHEREAS IF THERE WAS ONE CENTRALIZED STATE SYSTEM, IT WOULD CUT DOWN ON A LOT OF THE COMPLEXITY.

>> Braude: I THINK IT IS A CULTURE OF DECENTRALIZATION ALL THE WAY FROM THE TOP.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SAID THE STATES NEED TO FIGURE IT OUT, AND THE STATES SAID WE HAVE A LOT TO FIGURE OUT, AND HEALTH SYSTEMS, YOU FIGURE IT OUT, AND C.V.S., YOU TAKE THIS AND FIGURE IT OUT.

AND SO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY IS 100 DIFFERENT PLACES TO TRY TO SIGN UP FOR AN APPOINTMENT.

>> Braude: LAST QUESTION FOR YOU BOTH.

STARTING WITH YOU, DAN, WHEN YOU GO HOME AT NIGHT, AND THERE IS NOT A REPORTER TALKING TO YOU OR A TELEVISION CAMERA, WHAT DO YOU SAY ABOUT THE STATE OF THE -- THE STATE'S VACCINATION ROLLOUT SYSTEM?

>> I THINK CERTAINLY THAT IT IS A BIT FRUSTRATING RIGHT NOW.

AND I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT GETTING A LOT BETTER WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, LIKE THE PRE-REGISTRATION SYSTEM.

>> Braude: VERY DIPLOMATIC.

HOW ABOUT YOU, OLIVIA, IN THE PRIVACY OF YOUR OWN HOME?

[LAUGHTER] >> WELL, I HAVE TWO KIDS RUNNING AROUND AND MY HUSBAND, SO IT IS NOT TOO PRIVATE.

BUT WHAT I SAY IS I CAN'T BELIEVE IT IS US REGULAR CITIZENS THAT ARE MAKING THE MOST IMPACT RIGHT NOW, THAT ARE MAKING THE INNOVATIONS AND PUSHING THESE IDEAS FORWARD.

IT REALLY SHOULD BE THE STATE, QUITE FRANKLY.

>> Braude: THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I SAY IN MY HOUSE, TOO.

AND I DON'T HAVE ANY OF THE SKILLS EITHER OF YOU DO.

OLIVIA AND DAN, IT IS A PLEASURE TO MEET YOU BOTH.

I KNOW I SPEAK FOR EVERYBODY WATCHING, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR WORK.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: FINALLY TONIGHT, REMEMBERING SOME OF THE PEOPLE BEHIND THE COVID DEATH TOLL AS WE COME UP ON NEARLY A YEAR SINCE THIS PANDEMIC STARTED, WITH THE HELP OF THE "FACES OF COVID" TWITTER ACCOUNT.

LIKE 76-YEAR-OLD BRIAN CLARIDGE OF HINGHAM, WHOSE FAMILY WROTE THAT HE GAVE THE MOST TERRIFIC HUGS AND WAS ALWAYS WILLING TO HELP AND OFFER ADVICE, AND THAT THEY FEEL GRATEFUL THAT HE WAS ABLE TO MEET THEIR DAUGHTER.

AND JOSEPH GILLIS OF WESTBOROUGH, WHO LOVED SPENDING TIME WITH HIS FAMILY, FROM ATTENDING ALL OF THEIR SPORTING EVENTS AND ACTIVITIES TO LISTENING TO SMALL, EVERYDAY STORIES.

HE ALSO LOVED ALL BOSTON SPORTS TEAMS AND GOLFED UNTIL THE AGE OF 90.

IF YOU LOST SOMEONE YOU LOVE TO THE PANDEMIC AND WOULD LIKE TO SHARE THEIR STORY, PLEASE VISIT Twitter.com/faces of Covid.

THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

SUFFOLK COUNTY D.A.

RACHAEL ROLLINS JOINS ME FOR HER FIRST INTERVIEW SINCE SHE WAS CLEARED IN AN INVESTIGATION INTO A WOMAN'S ROAD RAGE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST HER.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE REPORTS CLAIMING ROLLINS IS ON THE SHORT LIST FOR U.S. ATTORNEY, THE WORK HER OFFICE IS DOING TO REVIEW PAST CASES IN WHICH OFFICERS' CREDIBILITY HAS BEEN QUESTIONED, AND MORE.

PLUS, THE GEORGETOWN LAW PROFESSOR WHO WANTED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT HOW D.C. POLICE OPERATE,SO ROSA BROOKS BECAME A COP.

SHE CHRONICLES WHAT SHE LEARNED OVER HER FOUR YEARS ON THE FORCE IN THE NEW BOOK, "TANGLED UP IN BLUE."

THAT AND MORE, TOMORROW AT 7:00.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND STAY SAFE.

♪♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org