>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> WE ARE CONFIDENT WE WILL GET THIS DONE.

WE WILL GET THIS AID TO UKRAINE.

>> TIME IS TICKING IN UKRAINE'S DESPERATE FIGHT FOR SURVIVAL.

LITHUANIA'S FOREIGN MINISTER GABRIELIUS LANDSBERGIS JOINS ME FROM THE UNITED STATES WITH AN URGENT PLEA FOR AMERICA TO DO MORE.

>>> THEN, THE ENDLESS SUFFERING IN GAZA, AND STILL NO MORE ISRAELI HOSTAGES RELEASED.

THE DEADLY RAID ON AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL GOES ON ANOTHER DAY.

WE BRING YOU A NEW REPORT.

>>> THE CONFLICT, THE LOGIC OF IT COULD VERY EASILY LEAD US TO TOTAL DESTRUCTION.

>> GOING NUCLEAR.

RAFAEL GROSSI, DIRECTOR GENERAL OF THE INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY TELLS WALTER ISAACSON HOW HE IS TRYING TO KEEP THE WORLD SAFE FROM CATASTROPHE.

>>> PLUS -- >> IF WE COULD JUST OPEN UP, WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHAT COLORS AND IMAGINATIONS WOULD WE CREATE?

>> RYAN CALAIS CAMERON EXPLORES RACE AND MASCULINITY IN THE PLAY TAKING LONDON BY STORM.

♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

SUPPORTED BY A DETERMINED SET OF POWERFUL ALLIES FOR TWO FULL YEARS, THE STORY OF UKRAINE'S DESPERATE STRUGGLE FOR SURVIVAL NOW AS IT ENTERS ITS THIRD YEAR OF WAR IMPOSED BY RUSSIA IS A TALE OF FECKLESS POLITICS, LED MOSTLY BY THE TRUMP WING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY INSIDE THE U.S. CONGRESS.

LISTEN TO NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER JAKE SULLIVAN IN KYIV THIS WEEK ON THE PROSPECTS OF U.S. MILITARY AID RESUMING.

>> THE TIMING HAS ALREADY TAKEN TOO LONG, AND I KNOW THAT, AND YOU KNOW THAT.

I'M NOT GOING MAKE PREDICTIONS ABOUT EXACTLY WHEN THIS WILL GET DONE, BUT WE ARE WORKING TO GET IT DONE AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, AND PRESIDENT BIDEN IS WORKING THIS ON A DAILY BASIS TO TRY TO DELIVER THIS PACKAGE TO THE HOUSE.

BUT I CANNOT MAKE A SPECIFIC TRADITION TODAY.

>> A LOT OF BUTS THERE.

BUT TODAY SHORTLY AFTER SULLIVAN LEFT, KYIV CAME UNDER HEAVY MISSILE ATTACK FOR THE FIRST TIME IN SIX WEEKS, WHICH, AGAIN, HIGHLIGHTS THE DWINDLING SUPPLIES OF ITS ANTI-MISSILE DEFENSES.

AND IT WILL GET A LOT WORSE IF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP GETS BACK INTO THE OVAL OFFICE.

THE HUNGARIAN PRIME MINISTER QUOTED HIM AS SAYING HE WOULD NOT GIVE ANOTHER PENNY TO UKRAINE.

SO WHAT ABOUT UKRAINE'S NEIGHBORS NOW.

THE BALTIC STATE OF LITHUANIA HOSTS SOME OF THE ANTI-PUTIN RUSSIAN OPPOSITION, LIKE ALEXEI NAVALNY'S FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, WHO WAS RECENTLY ATTACKED BY THUGS IN THE CAPITAL VILNIUS, A CHILLING SIGN OF PUTIN'S IDEAS BEYOND UKRAINE.

GABRIELIUS LANDSBERGIS IS LITHUANIA'S FOREIGN MINISTER, AND ONE OF UKRAINE'S FIERCEST ALLIES.

HE IS CURRENTLY IN THE UNITED STATES TO DRUM UP URGENT SUPPORT.

FOREIGN MINISTER, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

SO YOU HAVE REPEATEDLY CHASTISED WESTERN ALLIES FOR ESSENTIALLY DOING TOO LITTLE TOO LATE FOR KYIV.

ARE YOU GETTING YOUR MESSAGE THROUGH NOW TO YOUR INTERLOCUTORS IN THE UNITED STATES?

>> WELL, THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT I'M IN WASHINGTON, ACTUALLY, WITH THE RATHER SAME MESSAGE.

THE STORY THAT WE ARE TELLING IS THE STORY OF HEROISM THAT EVERYBODY CAN SEE IN UKRAINE.

BUT ALSO A POSSIBLE STORY OF WESTERN FAILURE, OF OUR INABILITY TO HELP UKRAINE ENOUGH SO THAT IT CAN WIN THIS WAR.

AND THIS IS A VERY HORRIBLE STORY, AND IT'S A HORRIBLE STORY NOT JUST TO UKRAINE.

IT'S A VERY SAD STORY ALSO TO THE NEIGHBORS.

IT'S ALSO A VERY SAD AND HORRIBLE STORY TO LITHUANIA, WHERE WE'VE SEEN RUSSIA ENCROACHING, WHERE WE'VE SEEN RUSSIA WINNING WARS IN THE PAST, AND WHERE WE'VE SEEN COUNTRIES LOSING THEIR INDEPENDENCE TO RUSSIA.

AND I THINK THAT THIS STORY NEEDS TO BE REMINDED AS TO WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF UKRAINE IS UNABLE TO SUSTAIN THE WAR EFFORT.

>> AND WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF PUTIN WINS IS THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN THAT YOU'RE SAYING.

YOU KNOW, FOREIGN MINISTER, THAT SOME OF THE ALLIES IN NATO SAY OH, THE BALTICS ARE SCREAMING ABOUT THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING, AND WE DON'T SEE NECESSARILY WAR IMMINENT NOW.

IN FACT, IN FACT, LET ME JUST READ YOU WHAT'S GOING ON AT THE CURRENT SUMMIT.

YOU'VE GOT JOSEPH BOREL, HIGH REPRESENTATIVE OF THE EU FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS TODAY SAYING "THE CALLS FOR EUROPEAN LEADERS TO BE AWARE OF THE CHALLENGES THEY ARE FACING ARE GOOD, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO EXAGGERATE EITHER.

WAR IS NOT IMMINENT," WHILE JUST DAYS AGO CHARLES MICHEL OF THE EUROPEAN COUNCIL SAYS WE'RE FACING THE BIGGEST SECURITY THREAT SINCE THE SECOND WORLD WAR.

IT'S HIGH TIME WE TAKE RADICAL AND CONCRETE STEPS TO DEFENSE READY AND PUT THE EU'S ECONOMY ON A WAR FOOTING.

SO THESE ARE TWO VERY CONFLICTING AND CONTRASTING VIEWS OF THE RUSSIAN THREAT.

HOW DO YOU GET PEOPLE TO CONCENTRATE IF IT'S LIKE THIS NOW?

>> YEAH, IT'S VERY DIFFICULT DEBATE, HONESTLY.

AND WE'VE BEEN IN THAT DEBATE FOR AS LONG AS I CAN REMEMBER.

SPECIFICALLY, SINCE 2014.

WHERE AFTER THE MINSK 1 AND MINSK II AGREEMENTS HAVE BEEN SIGNED AND A CEASEFIRE WAS ACHIEVED, WE'VE BEEN TELLING TO EVERYBODY THAT WAS WILLING TO LISTEN THAT RUSSIA IS NOT GOING TO STOP.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN THE LAST OF THEM.

AND THE STORY WAS THE SAME.

WE WERE TOLD, LOOK, YOU HAVE TO COME DOWN.

YOU HAVE YOUR HISTORY BEHIND YOU.

WE CAN ARGUE WITH THE RUSSIANS, AND WE HAVE THIS AGREEMENT IN PLACE.

WHEN THE WAR BROKE OUT IN 2022, THERE WERE PEOPLE COMING OUT AND SAYING LOOK, THE BALTICS ARE RIGHT.

AND NOW YOU WILL HEAR THE BALTICS SAY EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

PUTIN IS NOT ABOUT TO STOP.

TODAY WE'RE HEARING A MESSAGE FROM MUTE PUTIN'S OFFICIAL WHO SAY THEY ARE GOING TO RECREATE THEIR ARMY, BASICALLY, POSSIBLY MOBILIZING ADDITIONALLY UP TO 500,000 TROOPS ADDITIONAL TO WHAT THEY CURRENTLY HAVE.

THEY ALREADY HAVE ONE-THIRD MORE THAN THEY HAD BEFORE THE START OF THE WAR IN 2022.

NOW THEY'RE PLANNING ADDITIONALLY TO MOBILIZE.

WHAT WOULD THEY NEED IT FOR?

I MEAN, THE QUESTION IS REAL.

IT'S ACTUAL, AND WE HAVE TO GET RIGHT NOW IS NOT COMING DOWN.

WE NEED MOBILIZATION.

I'M NOT SPEAKING ABOUT MOBILIZATION OF TROOPS, BUT POLITICAL MOBILIZATION TO SEND A VERY CLEAR SIGNAL TO PUTIN THAT WE'RE ABLE, CAPABLE AND GETTING READY.

>> SO I WANT TO KNOW FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, BECAUSE YOU DO HAVE A MUCH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE BEING BANG-UP AGAINST RUSSIA SHARING A 160-MILE OR KILOMETER BORDER, WHATEVER IT'S LONG.

IT'S A LOT CLOSER TO RUSSIA THAN THE UNITED STATES IS.

AS YOU KNOW, THE -- SORRY, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ESSENTIALLY TELEGRAPHED THAT IT DOESN'T WANT TO START, QUOTE, WORLD WAR III WITH RUSSIA.

AND YOU'VE HEARD PEOPLE COMPLAIN THAT THAT IS SLOW WALKING OF THE DELIVERY OF AID EVEN IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, OF MILITARY AID, JUST ENOUGH TO LET UKRAINE SURVIVE, NOT ENOUGH TO LET IT WIN OR SUCKER PUNCH RUSSIA BACK.

IT IS ABOUT POLITICS, RIGHT?

I MEAN, IT'S ABOUT POLITICS.

>> IT'S ALWAYS ABOUT POLITICS.

YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING.

AND I THINK THAT WHAT PUTIN MIGHT BE COUNTING ON IS A LACK OF POLITICAL DECISIONS.

HE KNOWS HE HAS NO CHANCE WINNING AGAINST THE COMBINED MIGHT OF NATO.

I THINK HE CLEARLY KNOWS THAT.

BUT HE MIGHT BE BETTING ON THAT WE'RE JUST TOO SLOW WITH POLITICAL DECISIONS.

HE BETS ON POLITICS.

AND THAT IS A PROBLEM.

AND WHEN IT COMES TO AVOIDING WORLD WAR III, DEFINITELY NOBODY WANTS WAR.

I HAVE NOT YET SEEN A PERSON IN WESTERN WORLD WHEREVER I TRAVEL WHO SAY LOOK, THE WAR WOULD BE A GOOD THING.

THAT'S A COMPLETE NONSENSE.

BUT AS THE SAYING GOES, YOU MIGHT NOT BE INTERESTED IN WAR, BUT THE WAR MIGHT BE INTERESTED IN YOU.

AND THE WHOLE DE-ESCALATETORY POLITICS WE HAVE MIGHT BE READ AS WEAKNESS BY PUTIN.

WE'RE NOT READY.

WE CANNOT MAKE AN AGREEMENT.

WE'RE JUST STUCK IN A DITCH SOMEWHERE IN POLITICALLY IN BRUSSELS OR WASHINGTON, SOMEWHERE ELSE.

WE CANNOT MAKE UP OUR MINDS HOW TO DEFEND UKRAINE.

AND I'M QUITE SURE THAT FOR PUTIN, IT READS AS AN INVITATION TO GO FURTHER.

THIS IS WHAT HE IS BETTING ON, THAT WE WOULD BE INDECISIVE.

>> FOREIGN MINISTER -- >> AND HONESTLY, I WOULD ADD TO THIS.

>> GO.

>> I WOULD ADD TO THIS JUST ONE POINT.

IT'S NOT JUST PUTIN WHO IS WOULD BE THINKING LIKE THAT.

ANY OTHER DICTATOR IN THE WORLD WHO HAS A TERRITORIAL AMBITION FOR A LAND GRAB OR A SEIZING AN ISLAND HERE OR THERE, THEY WOULD EXACTLY THINK THE SAME THING.

THEY ARE LOOKING AT THE LESSONS THAT THEY CAN TAKE FROM US NOW.

>> IT HAS BEEN SAID TO ME MANY TIMES THAT UKRAINE COULD WIN EASILY BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN REALLY DOING WELL WITH THE AMOUNT OF WEAPONS THAT IT HAS BEEN GIVEN.

IT WILL WIN OR LOSE BASED ON THE POLITICAL DECISIONS MOSTLY IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO YOU WILL NOT JUST I PRESUME BE TALKING TO THE CONVERTED, RIGHT?

TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE, ET CETERA.

WILL YOU BE TALKING TO REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS?

>> WELL, I WILL BE TALKING TO ANYBODY WHO WILL BE WILLING TO LISTEN.

THAT MEANS BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

TELLING THE STORY THAT WE STARTED WITH, TELLING THE STORY OF LITHUANIA'S INDEPENDENCE.

HOW DID IT HAPPEN THAT WE'RE INDEPENDENT?

HOW DID IT HAPPEN THAT FOR 30 MORE YEARS WE'VE BEEN SAFE AND SECURE UNDER ARTICLE 5, AND WHAT IT MEANS FOR UKRAINE TO BE OUTSIDE OF THAT SECURITY AREA, AND WHAT IT MEANS TO FEEL PUTIN ENCROACHING, AND WHAT IT MEANS TO FEEL THE WHOLE -- POSSIBLY THE WHOLE WORLD SECURITY ORDER UNRAVELING BEFORE OUR EYES.

THIS IS REALLY A STORY THAT I THINK THE COUNTRY JUST FROM THE FRONT LINE, THAT THEY CAN TELL THIS STORY.

AND UKRAINIANS ARE TELLING THE STORY VERY VIVIDLY WITH THEIR -- EVERY DAY BY FIGHTING.

BUT THEY'RE JUST TOO BUSY DEFENDING THEIR LIVES AND TOO BUSY DEFENDING THEIR COUNTRY TO BE HERE TO TELL THE STORY EVERY DAY.

SO THIS IS WHERE TRY TO HELP THEM AND HELP US AS WELL.

>> SO YOU IN THE BALTICS ARE SAYING -- AND I KNOW THE PRIME MINISTER OF ESTONIA SAID TODAY, I THINK, THAT IF ONLY EVERY NATO ALLY WOULD GIVE 0.25% OF THEIR DEFENSE BUDGET OR GDP TO SUPPORTING UKRAINE, IT WOULD WIN AND ALL THE WEAPONS WOULD BE NECESSARY.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT NEEDS RIGHT NOW, UKRAINE?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, TODAY IT NEEDS AMMUNITION, DIRELY.

AND EVERYTHING DEPENDS ON IT RIGHT NOW.

THEREFORE, THE CZECH INITIATIVE THAT WAS JUST ANNOUNCED, IT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE THAT WE STILL HAVE NOT DONE EVERYTHING THAT WE COULD.

AND LITHUANIA IS JOINING THE CZECH ANY WITH 35 MILLION EUROS SO THAT WE WOULD PROVIDE FINANCING TO CZECH REPUBLIC SO THAT THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO PURCHASE AND DELIVER THE AMMUNITION TO UKRAINE.

ANY COUNTRY THAT HAS A POSSIBILITY TO GET THEIR HANDS ON AMMUNITION THAT UKRAINE REQUIRES SHOULD BE DOING JUST THAT.

AND IF IT BOILS DOWN TO MOUNTAIN LION, I MOOEFN MY COUNTRY, WE CAN CHIP IN.

AND I'M SURE OTHERS CAN DO THEIR PART AS WELL.

WE STILL HAVE NOT EXHAUSTED ALL THE RESOURCES THAT WE HAVE.

>> THIS IS THE GERMAN CHANCELLOR OLAF SCHOLZ TODAY TALKING ABOUT RUSSIAN FROZEN ASSETS AND HOW IT -- THOSE COULD PLAY A ROLE AS WELL.

JUST TICK A LISTEN.

>> Translator: THE USE OF WIN FOR PROFITS FROM RUSSIA'S PROFITS IS ABOUT PROCEEDS THAT CAN BE USE WHICH NO ONE IS ENTITLED TO AND THEREFORE CAN BE USED BY THE EUROPEAN UNION.

AND IN MY VIEW, THEY SHOULD FIRST AND FOREMOST BE USED TO ACQUIRE THE WEAPONS AND AMMUNITION THAT UKRAINE NEEDS FOR ITS DEFENSE.

>> DO YOU AGREE?

AND WOULD IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> OF COURSE.

OF COURSE.

IT'S A GOOD ARGUMENT FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRIES WHO ARE SUPPORTING UKRAINE THAT WE ARE ALSO USING NOT JUST OUR TAXPAYER MONEY, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO EXPLAIN WHY WE'RE DOING THIS.

BUT WE'RE ALSO USING RUSSIAN MONEY, KIND OF TO SEND THE MONEY, TRANSFER IT, MAKE IT INTO AMMUNITION, MAKE INTO IT THE WEAPONS, AND SEND IT TO UKRAINE.

IT'S ONLY LOGICAL.

SO I FULLY SUPPORT CHANCELLOR SCHOLZ'S IDEA IN THIS POINT.

LOOK, AT THIS STAGE, WE REALLY NEED THE IDEAS OUT OF THE BOX.

FOR TWO YEARS WE'VE BEEN ENJOYING RED LINES TO OURSELVES.

WE'VE BURN EXPLAINING WHAT WE CANNOT DO.

NOW WE HAVE TO CHANGE THAT IF WE WANT UKRAINE TO WIN AND RUSSIA TO LOSE THIS WAR.

WE HAVE TO BE CREATIVE SUCH AS AN IDEA SUGGESTED BY PRESIDENT MACRON OF FRANCE WHERE HE SUGGESTED WE CANNOT EXCLUDE EVEN SENDING BOOTS ON THE GROUND TO UKRAINE IF THE SITUATION GETS WORSE.

AND I THINK THIS IS THE TYPE OF THINKING THAT WE SHOULD BE SEEING MORE RIGHT NOW.

>> OBVIOUSLY THERE IS ANOTHER TERRIBLE WAR THAT ACTUALLY IS ALSO NOT JUST AWFUL, BUT SUCKING A LOT OF THE ATTENTION AWAY FROM UKRAINE, AND THAT'S THE ONE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND GAZA.

EU LEADERS ARE DISCUSSING THAT.

WHAT DOES LITHUANIA WANT TO SEE COME OUT OF THIS SUMMIT WHEN IT COMES TO THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA, TO THE IDEA OF A CEASEFIRE, TO ALSO GET THE HOSTAGES, THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES OUT.

>> WELL, I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO SEE A UNIFIED EUROPEAN POSITION.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO FORMULATE A POSITION BECAUSE THE POSITION OF CERTAIN COUNTRIES WERE JUST TOO WIDE APART.

AND WE WERE TRYING TO BRIDGE IT.

WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE WAY FORWARD.

UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE NOT THERE.

AND IT'S QUITE CLEAR.

WE HAVE TO TELL THAT THE HOSTAGE HAVE TO BE RELEASED.

THAT'S A PARAMOUNT TO THE SAFETY OF ISRAEL.

AND YES, WE HAVE TO ASK FOR AT LEAST A TEMPORARY CEASEFIRE, ESPECIALLY WHERE WHEN THE SITUATION, HUMANITARIAN SITUATION GETS AS BAD AS IT IS RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS NOT THE POSITION OF -- NOT A UNITED POSITION OF THE EUROPEAN UNION, UNFORTUNATELY.

>> YEAH.

FOREIGN MINISTER LANDSBERGIS, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

AND NOW THE U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN IS IN EGYPT TODAY WHILE HE SAYS NEGOTIATIONS TO SECURE THAT CEASEFIRE DEAL IN GAZA ARE GETTING CLOSER, A DIPLOMAT WHOSE BEEN BRIEFED ON THIS MATTER TELLS CNN A LOT OF DIFFERENCES REMAIN.

AND BENJAMIN NETANYAHU INSISTS HIS MILITARY WILL GO ON THE OFFENSIVE IN RAFAH.

DEATH AND DESPAIR ARE EVERYWHERE IN GAZA WHERE NO END IN SIGHT.

ISRAEL'S RAID OF AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL IS NOW IN ITS FOURTH DAY.

CORRESPONDENT NADA BASHIR HAS THIS REPORT.

AND A WARNING, OF COURSE.

VIEWERS WILL FIND SOME OF THE IMAGES DISTRESSING.

>> Translator: I ONLY LEFT TO FIND FLOUR, TO FIND FOOD," THIS WOMAN SCREAMS.

WHERE ARE THEY?

HER HUSBAND, CHILDREN, AND OTHER RELATIVES ARE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND.

THEIR HOME DESTROYED IN AN ISRAELI AIR STRIKE WHILE SHE WAS GONE.

MOMENTS LATER, HER NEPHEW IS PULLED FROM THE RUBBLE.

BUT HE IS BARELY CLINGING ON TO LIFE.

IN CENTRAL GAZA, AS BOMBS CONTINUE TO RAIN DOWN, SO DO THESE FOREBODING LEAFLETS.

A WARNING FROM THE ISRAELI MILITARY FOR CIVILIANS TO FLEE SOUTHWARDS, DIRECTED AT THOSE LIVING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE THOUSANDS CURRENTLY SHELTERING IN THE NEARBY AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL COMPLEX.

THIS WAS THE SCENE AT THE BELEAGUERED MEDICAL COMPLEX ON MONDAY.

THE ALARMING SOUND OF ARTILLERY FIRE ECHOING THROUGH THE EARLY HOURS OF THE MORNING.

"NOBODY HAS BEEN ABLE TO REACH THOSE INJURED OR KILLED AT AL-SHIFA," THIS EYEWITNESS SAYS, FILMING DISCREETLY.

SOME 3,000 PEOPLE ARE BELIEVED TO HAVE BEEN SHELTERING IN AND AROUND THE HOSPITAL WHEN THE RAID BEGAN, ACCORDING TO THE PALESTINIAN HEALTH MINISTRY.

ISRAELI MILITARY VEHICLES SEEN HERE IN VIDEO FILMED BY A DOCTOR IN THE HOSPITAL HAVE SURROUNDED THE COMPLEX FOR DAYS.

ON TUESDAY, ONE CIVILIAN TRAPPED INSIDE SENT CNN THIS AUDIO RECORDING.

"THE HOSPITAL IS STILL UNDER BOMBARDMENT.

THERE HAS BEEN HEAVY SHELLING AND LIVE FIRE."

"ONE MAN WAS JUST LOOKING OUT OF THE WINDOW ON THE SECOND FLOOR WHEN HE WAS HIT BAY SNIPER AND KILLED.

THE ISRAELI MILITARY SAYS IT IS CONDUCTING WHAT IT DESCRIBED AS A PRECISE MILITARY OPERATION TARGETING SENIOR HAMAS MILITANTS OPERATING WITHIN THE HOSPITAL COMPLEX.

ISRAELI MILITARY SPOKESMAN DANIEL HAGARI ACCUSED HAMAS ON MONDAY OF USING THE HOSPITAL AS A COMMAND CENTER.

IT IS THE VERY SAME CLAIM MADE BY THE IDF AHEAD OF ITS RAID ON AL-SHIFA BACK IN NOVEMBER.

ON MONDAY, THE IDF RELEASED THIS VIDEO SHOWING A SAFE FULL OF CASH, AN ENVELOPE WITH HAMAS AND ISLAMIC JIHAD INSIGNIA, AND A SERIES OF WEAPONS PRESENTED AS EVIDENCE TO JUSTIFY ITS RAID ON THE HOSPITAL.

BUT MUCH LIKE THE IDF RAID IN NOVEMBER, LITTLE OTHER EVIDENCE WAS PROVIDED TO PROVE THE CENTER AT THE AL-SHIFA HOSPITAL.

HAMAS' MILITARY WING, MEANWHILE, HAS ACKNOWLEDGED THAT ITS FIGHTERS HAVE BEEN ENGAGED WITH FIERCE CLASHES WITH THE ISRAELI TROOPS IN THE AREAS SURROUNDING THE HOSPITAL.

ADDING THAT GAZA'S CIVIL POLICE CHIEF, WHO LED THE COORDINATION OF FOOD AND AID DELIVERIES TO THE STRIP WAS KILLED DURING THE RAID.

IN A STATEMENT, THE IDF SAID WEDNESDAY THAT APPROXIMATELY 90, QUOTE, TERRORISTS WERE KILLED.

THE IDF ALSO MAINTAINED THAT NO HARM HAD BEEN INFLICTED ON SIEVE I CAN'T BES OR MEDICAL STAFF IN THE HOSPITAL.

BUT TAYLORMADES FROM PALESTINIANS INSIDE AL-SHIFA TELL A VERY DIFFERENT STORY.

"WE WERE INFORMED BY THE ISRAELIS THAT ANYONE MOVING WITHIN THE HOSPITAL OR AROUND THE HOSPITAL COMPLEX WOULD BE TARGETED BY SNIPERS," THIS MEDICAL STUDENT SAYS.

WE CAN'T LEAVE THE BUILDING TO TREAT THOSE INJURED OUTSIDE.

SOME FAMILIES ATTEMPTED TO LEAVE, BUT THEY WERE TARGETED AND KILLED.

WHOSE WHO HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LEAVE CENTRAL GAZA ARE NOW FORCED TO MAKE THE UNCERTAIN JOURNEY SOUTH, WITH NO GUARANTEE OF PROTECTION OR SURVIVAL.

STRIPPED TO THEIR UNDERWEAR AND BAREFOOT, THESE YOUNG BOYS SAY THEY ARE THANKFUL JUST TO HAVE ESCAPED WITH THEIR LIVES.

RECOUNTING THEIR HARROWING EXPERIENCE, THEY SAY THEY WERE MET WITH ISRAELI TANKS AND FORCED INTO AN OPEN SQUARE WHERE THEY WERE INTERROGATED AND ORDERED TO UNDRESS.

OTHER MEN AROUND THEM THEY SAY WERE KILLED.

MANY EVACUEES HAVE BEEN BADLY WOUNDED.

LIMP, BLOODIED BODIES ARE CARRIED BY CART.

BUT THERE IS LITTLE CARE AVAILABLE IN THE SOUTH ANYMORE.

AND THERE IS NO TELLING WHETHER THESE MEN, LIKE SO MANY OTHERS, WILL SURVIVE.

>> NOW EARLIER THIS WEEK, WE AIRED A RECORD BY OUR COLLEAGUE JEREMY DIAMOND ABOUT A GROUP OF CANCER PATIENTS AND PREGNANT WOMEN WHO HAD BEEN TRANSPORTED BEFORE THE WAR TO EAST JERUSALEM FROM GAZA FOR CRITICAL MEDICAL CARE.

AFTER THEIR CARE WAS COMPLETED, THEY FACED DEPORTATION WITH THEIR BABIES BACK TO THE WAR ZONE.

TODAY, THOUGH, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT IS DELAYING THAT DEPORTATION FOLLOWING A TEMPORARY INJUNCTION BY THE SUPREME COURT.

THIS FOLLOWED AN APPEAL BY ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS ORGANIZATIONS WHO HAD SEEN DIAMOND'S REPORT ON CNN.

>>> WE TURN NOW TO BRUSSELS, WHERE WORLD LEADERS ARE GATHERED FOR THE FIRST EVER NUCLEAR ENERGY SUMMIT.

IT AIMS TO HIGHLIGHT THE POWER OF NUCLEAR ENERGY IN TACKLING THE CLIMATE CRISIS AND ENHANCING ENERGY SECURITY.

OUR NEXT GUEST, DIRECTOR GENERAL OF THE INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY, RAFAEL GROSSI, CO-CHAIRED THE EVENT, WHICH IS MORE URGENT THAN EVER GIVEN THE WARS AND TENSIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING AROUND THE WORLD, SUCH AS PUTIN'S INVASION OF UKRAINE AND WILLINGNESS TO CONDUCT MILITARY OPERATIONS THAT THREATEN THE MASSIVE NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS THERE.

JUST BEFORE THE SUMMIT, WALTER ISAACSON SPOKE TO RAFAEL GROSSI ABOUT THESE SERIOUS SAFETY CONCERNS.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, AND RAFAEL GROSSI, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> YES, MY PLEASURE.

HELLO.

>> YOU RECENTLY MET WITH RUSSIAN PRESIDENT PUTIN ABOUT THE ZAPORIZHZHIA NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN UKRAINE.

IT'S THE LARGEST I THINK IN EUROPE AND RUSSIA CONTROLS IT.

WHAT WERE YOUR CONCERNS AND WHAT DID PRESIDENT PUTIN SAY TO YOU?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS IS PART OF MY EFFORTS, ONGOING EFFORTS SINCE THE PLANT WAS -- CAME UNDER THE CONTROL OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION.

BUT WE HAVE BEEN WORKING THERE.

I HAVE ESTABLISHED A PERMANENT PRESENCE OF THE IAEA THERE.

AND I WAS IN KYIV AS WELL.

I MET WITH PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY.

AND THEN OF COURSE I NEEDED TO GO TO THE OTHER SIDE AND, YOU KNOW, WE DISCUSS A NUMBER OF THINGS.

WE DISCUSSED SOME TECHNICAL ISSUES, YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAID, THIS IS THE LARGEST, THE BIGGEST NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN EUROPE, SIX BIG REACTORS, SIX GIGAWATTS OF CAPACITY THERE.

AND MANY OF COURSE OPEN QUESTIONS, BECAUSE WE SHOULD NEVER FORGET THAT THIS FACILITY IS EXACTLY ON THE FRONT LINE OF THE WAR.

SO IT'S NOT IN THE VICINITY OR SOMEWHERE NEAR.

IT'S QUITE DRAMATIC IN THAT SENSE.

SO WE'VE HAD IN THE PAST SITUATIONS OF SHEDDING AT THE -- SHELLING AT THE PLANT.

AND BLACKOUTS.

IT'S VERY DANGEROUS BECAUSE THIS WOULD COUNT A COOLING FUNCTION THEREFORE POTENTIALLY LEADING TO A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT.

SO THERE ARE MANY, MANY ISSUES THAT WE NEED TO DISCUSS AND MY LAST TRIP TO SOCHI IN FACT, SOUTH RUSSIA WHERE WE HAD A LONG CONVERSATION.

PUTIN AND I PUT PAST A NUMBER OF MESSAGES OF THINGS THAT SHOULD BE DONE THERE.

AND ALSO LOOK INTO THE WIDER PERSPECTIVE OF THE PLANT AND OTHER EFFORTS TO BRING THE SITUATION TO A MORE STABLE PLACE.

>> SO YOU'RE IN SOCHI WITH PRESIDENT PUTIN SITTING WITH HIM FOR A WHILE.

TELL ME WHAT WAS THAT LIKE, AND WHAT ELSE DID HE DISCUSS?

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF HIS MIND-SET NOW?

>> WELL, I MUST SAY, THIS IS NOT MY FIRST TIME WITH HIM SINCE THE WAR STARTED.

I HAD A YEAR AGO MORE OR LESS A LONG MEETING IN ST. PETERSBURG.

AND THESE MEETINGS I MUST SAY OBJECTIVELY SPEAKING ARE VERY PROFESSIONAL, VERY THOUGHTFUL.

HE HAS A VERY, YOU KNOW, GOOD UNDERSTANDING NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY.

SO IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE A VERY THOUGHTFUL CONVERSATION OF SPECIFIC ISSUES RELATED TO THE FUNCTIONING OF THE PLANT AND ALSO SOME OTHERS THAT ARE OF A MORE GENERAL NATURE RELATED TO THE SITUATION THERE, THE SITUATION AROUND THE PLANT AND SO ON.

SO I WOULD SAY YES, IT WAS A VERY, VERY POINTED AND VERY METICULOUS TECHNICAL CONVERSATION.

>> YOU SAY HE IS VERY GOOD AT THE TECHNICALITIES OF UNDERSTANDING THE NUCLEAR PLANT.

HOW CONVINCE READY YOU THAT HE ABSOLUTELY WOULD WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE WAS NO BIG ACCIDENT AT THAT PLANT OR ANY OF THE OTHERS IN UKRAINE?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BIT OF SPECULATION, ISN'T IT?

BUT FOR ME, ONE VERY BASIC ONE COULD SAY COMMON SENSE RULE TELLS US THAT A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT THERE WOULD BENEFIT NO ONE.

UKRAINE, RUSSIA, OR THE REST OF EUROPE.

SO IT IS IN THIS SENSE FOR ME, FOR MY JOB, IT IS EASIER TO CONVINCE THE LEADERS TO DO CERTAIN THINGS OR NOT TO DO OTHER THINGS IN ORDER TO AVOID SITUATIONS THAT COULD SCALE UP TO SOME CONFRONTATION AROUND THE PLANT, WHICH WOULD BE OF COURSE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.

>> A YEAR AGO WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR ON THIS SHOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT TRYING TO ESTABLISH A ZONE OF PROTECTION AROUND THE PLANT.

HOW'S THAT GOING?

>> WELL, I -- THAT APPROACH CHANGED.

I WENT TO THE UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL A FEW MONTHS AGO.

AND INSTEAD OF TRYING TO ESTABLISH AT THE LIMITATION WITH THE TERRITORIAL CONNOTATION, WE MOVED INTO A BEHAVIORAL TYPE OF THING.

BASICALLY DON'T DO THIS, DO THAT, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT CAN BE EASILY UNDERSTOOD BY EVERYBODY AT A TIME WHERE THE SECURITY COUNCIL IS A PLACE WHERE AGREEMENTS ARE ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO GET.

I GOT WIDESPREAD IF NOT ABSOLUTE SUPPORT FOR THIS, WHICH WAS NOT A PROPOSAL BY THE RUSSIANS OR FROM THE UKRAINIANS.

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE IAEA WAS SAYING THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO NOW IF WE WANT TO AVOID A NUCLEAR ACCIDENT.

SO IT'S A VERY CLEAR SET OF CRITERIA THAT NEED TO BE OBSERVED.

AND THIS IS -- WHAT WE HAVE CONSIDERED INITIALLY AS A ZONE SANCTUARY, IF YOU WILL, AROUND THE PLANT BUBBLE, THIS AS I WAS SAYING AT THE FRONT LINES OF A WAR IS VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN.

MILITARY COMMANDERS ON ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER WILL -- YOU KNOW, IT WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO CONVINCE THEM NOT TO OPERATE THERE, TO MOVE THERE, TO DO CERTAIN THINGS.

SO I SHIFTED MY APPROACH INTO CERTAIN THINGS THAT NEEDED TO BE AVOIDED AT ALL COSTS.

AND OF COURSE I DON'T WANT TO JINX IT, BUT SO FAR WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO AVOID THE RISK.

NATURALLY, AND I WILL TO SAY THIS VERY CLEARLY, UNTIL WE COME TO THE END OF THIS STORY WITHOUT NUCLEAR ACCIDENT, HE WILL NEVER SAY THAT THINGS ARE OKAY OR STABLE OR WHATEVER, BECAUSE THEY ARE SIMPLY NOT.

IT'S A DAY BY DAY EFFORT THAT GO THROUGH.

>> YOU SAY THINGS ARE NOT TOTALLY STABLE.

THERE IS ALWAYS SOME WORRY.

WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST WORRY?

>> WELL, HAVE I TWO, BASICALLY.

ONE IS OF COURSE THE POSSIBILITY THERE ARE ALWAYS SOME EPISODES OF SHELLING, OF SOMETHING.

NOW WE HAVE THE APPEARANCE OF THE DRONES AND SOME DRONES ARE LOADED WITH EXPLOSIVES.

SO THAT IS ANOTHER THREAT THAT WE ARE SEEING.

THAT IS ONE, AND AS I MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, THE BLACKOUT.

SO THE POSSIBILITY THAT THIS STATION IS WITHOUT ANY POWER, ANY EXTERNAL POWER SUPPLY FOR LONG PERIOD OF TIME, THEN THE EMERGENCY GENERATORS RAN OUT OF FUEL, AND THEN YOU HAVE A MELTDOWN.

SO THOSE SCENARIOS ARE NOT IMPOSSIBLE.

AND THIS IS WHAT WE NEED TO AVOID.

AND THIS IS WHY WE HAVE OUR TEAM THERE, TEAM OF EXPERTS.

LIVES THERE, INFORMING US BY THE MINUTE WHAT IS THE SITUATION.

YOU MIGHT HAVE NOTICED THAT FROM ZAPORIZHZHIA, YOU VERY RARELY GET FAKE STORIES OR STRANGE STORIES.

AND IT'S BECAUSE THE IAEA IS THERE.

SO WE CAN SAY EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING, IF SOMEBODY SAYS WE ARE BEING ATTACKED OR WHATEVER.

OR THE CONTRARY, FIRE IS COMING FROM THE STATION.

I HAVE MY GUYS THERE.

SO THEY ARE TELLING ME EXACTLY WHAT IS GOING ON, WHAT'S GOING ON MORE TECHNICAL ASPECTS THAT WOULD BE PERHAPS A BIT BORING TO DESCRIBE HERE.

BUT ANY WAY, THE IMPORTANT THING IS THE IAEA IS THERE.

WE'RE NOT GOING ANYWHERE UNTIL THIS COMES TO A BETTER PLACE.

>> YOU SAY THAT EXPERTS FROM YOUR AGENCY ARE THERE.

I THINK YOU'VE DONE A COUPLE ROTATIONS IN THE PLANT.

WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN YOU'RE THERE?

WHAT'S IT LIKE?

>> WELL, THERE NORMALLY WHAT WE DO IS WHEN I PERSONALLY GO, THE PEOPLE THERE, THEY HAVE A TEAM.

THEY GO TO NUCLEAR POWER PLANT, ESPECIALLY ONE WITH SIX REACTORS.

IT'S A HUGE CITE, SITE, VERY BIG SITE, WHERE THERE ARE MANY SAFETY FUNCTIONS THAT WE NEED TO CHECK THAT ARE BEING PERFORMED WELL.

WE NEED TO CHECK THE WATER LEVELS OF THE COOLING FUNCTION.

WE NEED TO GO TO THE CONTROL ROOMS AND SEE HOW THIS IS GOING.

SO WE HAVE LIKE A CHECKLIST, IF YOU WANT THAT WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH EVERY DAY.

WHEN I GO, OF COURSE, I HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MEET THE MANAGEMENT, AND THEN WE CAN ADDRESS MORE GENERAL ISSUES AS WELL.

>> PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS THREATENED OR HINTED THAT HE MIGHT ACTUALLY USE NUCLEAR WEAPONS OR TACTICAL BATTLEFIELD NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN THIS WAR, ESPECIALLY I WOULD GUESS IF THE RED LINES LIKE CRIMEA WERE ATTACKED.

LIKELY IT IS, AND WHAT WOULD TRIGGER THAT, DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW THE USE OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS BY COUNTRIES THAT ARE LEGITIMATE POSSESSORS OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, BASICALLY THE FIFE PERMANENT MEMBERS OF THE SECURITY COUNCIL, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES ACCORDING TO THE TREATY OF NONPROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS, THESE COUNTRIES CAPPED THESE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

THESE WHAT THESE COUNTRIES NORMALLY HAVE IS A SETTER OF PRESENCE PAL SCENARIOS ACCORDING TO WHICH THEY WOULD RESORT TO USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

NORMALLY, THEY ARE NOT SO DISSIMILAR, I WOULD SAY, AND NORMALLY THEY ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE OBVIOUS THINGS, EUROPE BEING ATTACKED WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS, OR IN A MORE I WOULD SAY GENERAL SENSE, BEING AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT THAT WOULD MAKE THE POSSESSOR OF A NUCLEAR WEAPON USE IT.

THIS IS THE SITUATION.

THIS IS VALID.

THIS HAS BEEN REITERATED.

BY ALL.

AT THE SAME TIME, I WISH TO REMIND THAT THESE COUNTRIES SAID AND REPEATED THAT FAMOUS OLD FORMULA THAT I THINK WAS UTTERED BY SECRETARY GORBACHEV ADDRESSING PRESIDENT REAGAN, THAT A NUCLEAR WAR CAN NEVER BE WON AND MUST NEVER BE FOUGHT.

SO IF YOU UNLEASH A NUCLEAR CONFLICT, THE LOGIC OF IT COULD VERY EASILY LEAD US TO TOTAL DESTRUCTION.

SO MY IMPRESSION WOULD BE THAT THERE WOULD BE RESTRAINT.

OF COURSE THERE ARE SOME STATEMENTS WHICH ARE REGRETTABLE.

I WOULD NOT GET INTO THAT, OF COURSE, BUT WHAT I'M GIVING YOU IS THE PARAMETERS, THE PARAMETERS THAT DO EXIST AND THAT WE HOPE WILL BE RESPECTED.

>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THOSE PARAMETERS, YOU JUST SAID SOMETHING, WHICH IS IF THE COUNTRY FACES AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT, MEANING A THREAT TO ITS EXISTENCE.

DO YOU THINK CRIMEA IS AN EXISTENTIAL ISSUE FOR RUSSIA?

>> I WOULDN'T GO INTO THAT.

FIRST OF ALL, CRIMEA IS AN OCCUPIED TERRITORY ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW.

SO FRANKLY SPEAKING, FOR ME TO INDICATE WHAT WOULD BE THE POINT WHERE RUSSIA WILL RESORT TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS WOULD BE IMPRUDENT.

I WOULD SIMPLY SAY NUCLEAR WEAPONS HAVE NO PLACE IN GENERAL, BUT IN PARTICULAR, IN FAMILIAR THIS CONFLICT, I DON'T SEE THEM BEING USED.

I HOPE THIS WOULD BE THE CASE.

>> PRESIDENT PUTIN HAS SAID THAT HE IS PULLING OUT OF THE NEW START TREATY, WHICH IS A LONG-STANDING STRATEGIC ARMS TREATY ON NUCLEAR WEAPONS BETWEEN EAST AND WEST.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT ARE AND IS THERE ANY WAY TO PREVENT THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK THE IMPLICATIONS OF THAT IS THAT THE ARMS CONTROL AS OPPOSED TO DISARMAMENT, THE ARMS CONTROL STRUCTURES THAT PREPARE BETWEEN YOU SAID THE WEST.

I WOULD SAY THE UNITED STATES AND THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION ARE BEING ERODED.

AND THE PROCESSES THAT LED TO THESE DIALOGUE THAT EXISTED AND THE CONTROL REDUCTIONS ARE SIGNALS WHICH REACHED IN THE 1970s AND THE 1980s INCREDIBLE PROPORTIONS WILL CEASE TO BE REDUCED, WHICH IS NOT OF COURSE A GOOD THING.

I THINK IN GENERAL WHAT WE CAN SAY IS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, THEY SHOULD BE RETURNED TO THIS DIALOGUE AND THIS FORM COULD BE THE START, A NEW START OR ANY KIND OF AGREEMENT THAT MAY EXIST.

BUT IT IS CLEAR THAT THE NUMBER OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS MUST BE REDUCED AND ULTIMATELY ELIMINATED COMPLETELY.

BUT WE KNOW THAT IS NOT FOR TOMORROW.

>> FOR THE PAST 50 YEARS, THIS WHOLE NOTION OF HAVING A NUCLEAR ARMS NEGOTIATION PROCESS, WHETHER IT WAS START OR SALT OR THE INTERMEDIATE NUCLEAR WEAPONS TREATIES, IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF THOSE TREATIES, IT WAS A PROCESS WHERE THE SIDES SAT DOWN AND TRIED TO NEGOTIATE NUCLEAR ARMS.

NOW WE DON'T HAVE THIS PROCESS.

IS THERE ANY WAY YOU THINK WE CAN RESTART AT LEAST NEGOTIATIONS ABOUT NUCLEAR ARMS FOR THE SAKE OF HAVING THESE CONVERSATIONS AGAIN?

>> IT'S THE NEXT IMPORTANT.

I THINK THAT THE CONTEXT AND DIALOGUE IN DISPENSABLE.

NARROWING, IF YOU ALLOW ME, THE SPECTRUM TO WHAT WE ARE DOING AT THE MOMENT AS THE IAEA WE ARE THE ONLY CONDUIT FOR UP SOME TYPE OF CONVERSATION BETWEEN KYIV AND MOSCOW, BECAUSE THERE IS NO DIRECT CONVERSATION.

THERE WAS SOME IN THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR IN THE SPRING OF 2022.

THEN THEREAFTER, NO PROCESS TOOK PLACE.

AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING AGAIN AT THE LEVEL OF THE SUPER POWERS IS FOLLOWING THAT LOGIC OF TALKING PAST EACH OTHER AND SOMETIMES INCREASINGLY ALARMING TALK.

THERE IS A NEED OF COURSE ALWAYS FOR DIPLOMACY.

>> A SENIOR OFFICIAL IN PRESIDENT BIDEN'S ADMINISTRATION WHO RECENTLY SAID THAT RIGHT NOW IS WHEN THE NUCLEAR RISK IS MOST AFTER THE FOREFRONT.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT?

AND IF SO, WHY?

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSING HERE WOULD BE A CONFIRMATION OF THE GENERAL VALIDITY OF THAT ASSERTION.

WE ARE IN A WORLD WHERE DIALOGUE AMONG THE SUPER POWERS HAVE BROKEN DOWN.

WE SEE MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS, MORE NUCLEAR WEAPONS BRO DUCED.

WE HAVE A DIRECT CONFRONTATION WAR AT THE HEART OF EUROPE.

WE ALSO SEE AND HEAR THE CLOSURE TO MY OMISSION WHICH IS NONPROLIFERATION OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

WELL SEE COUNTRIES TOYING, PLAYING WITH THE IDEA OF DEVELOPING THEIR OWN NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON TOP OF THE NUCLEAR WEAPONS WE ALREADY HAVE.

SO THAT CONFIGURATION EXTREMELY CONCERTING FOR US.

OF COURSE, WE FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, OF COURSE, I CANNOT TALK TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE BEYOND MY MANDATE.

BUT ON OUR SIDE AND THE AREA OF PREVENTING PROLIFERATION, WEAPONS ARE EXTREMELY ACTIVE.

I JUST RETURNED FROM A TOUR IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

I WAS IN BAGHDAD.

I WAS IN SYRIA.

HAVE I AN OPEN PROCESS WITH IRAN AS YOU KNOW.

SO WE ARE TRYING TO REINFORCE THE NORMS OF NONPROLIFERATION WHEREVER WE CAN SO THAT THE LANDSCAPE DOESN'T GET ANY BLEAKER THAN IT ALREADY.

>> RAFAEL GROSSI, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> GREAT PLEASURE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> AND NEXT, TO THE WEST END, WHERE A HIT PLAY IS TAKING LONDON'S THEATER WORLD BY STORM.

IT'S CALLED "FOR BLACK BOYS WHO HAVE CONSIDERED SUICIDE WHEN THE HUE GETS TOO HEAVY."

THE PLAY FOLLOWS SIX YOUNG BLACK MEN MEETING IN GROUP THERAPY, MAKING FOR A VERY POWERFUL EXPLORATION OF RACE, MASCULINITY, AND MENTAL HEALTH.

IT'S THE CREATION OF PLAY RIGHT RYAN CALAIS CAMERON, AND I RECENTLY SAT DOWN WITH HIM ON STAGE AT THE GARRICK THEATRE TO DISCUSS THIS OUTBREAK HIT.

RYAN CALAIS CAMERON, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I WANT TO FIRST READ THE VERY INTERESTING NAME OF THIS PLAY.

>> OKAY.

>> "FOR BLACK BOYS WHO HAVE CONSIDERED SUICIDE WHEN THE HUE GETS TOO HEAVY."

IT'S SUCH A DRAMATIC, EVOCATIVE TITLE.

>> YEAH.

>> HOW DID YOU COME UP WITH IT?

>> WELL, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT OVER A DECADE AGO NOW I CAME ACROSS.

I WAS A DRAMA STUDENT.

I WAS LOOKING FOR MATERIAL THAT KIND OF SPOKE TO ME IN A KIND OF WAY IN TERMS OF TYPE I WANTED TO MAKE.

I CAME ACROSS FOR COLORED GIRLS WHO CONSIDERED SUICIDE WHEN THE RAIN BOW ISN'T ENOUGH.

>> THAT'S AMERICAN.

>> PUT ON IN THE 1970S IN NEW YORK.

AND I'D NEVER HEARD OF AT THAT TIME.

I WAS SO INSPIRED BY THE TEXT.

BY HOW IT MADE YOUNG BLACK WOMEN FEEL WHO COULD IDENTIFY THEMSELVES IN THIS.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

AS AN ARTIST, THIS IS SUCH A GOOD SPRINGBOARD.

IT TOOK ME A DECADE TO BE ABLE TO WRITE ANYTHING THAT COULD EVEN BE IN THE SAME KIND OF SPACE AS THAT.

BUT IT INSPIRED ME TO GO.

THERE ARE STORIES OUT THERE THAT NEED TO BE TOLD FOR PEOPLE THAT LOOK LIKE ME.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE YOU WHO ARE THE PROTAGONISTS OF YOUR PLAY.

>> YEP, YEP.

>> WHAT IS THIS CREATOR LOOKING THEATER SET SAY ABOUT HOW THEY'RE BEHAVING IN THIS SPACE.

>> YEAH.

THIS WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT HERE IS THE SECOND ACT WHERE THE YOUNG MEN ACTUALLY GET TO REALLY EXPRESS THEMSELVES.

AND THE WHOLE POINT OF IT IS WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOUNG MEN HAVE BEEN CONDITIONED BY SOCIETY TO BE LESSER THAN THEMSELVES, TO BE ALMOST LIKE HALF A MAN, YOU KNOW, NOT BEING ABLE TO CRY OR OPEN UP OR TO SPEAK ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS OR EMOTIONS.

WHAT IF WE COULD JUST OPEN UP.

WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHAT COLORS AND IMAGINATIONS AND MAGIC WOULD THAT CREATE?

AND THAT'S WHAT ACT 2 REALLY SHOWS US.

WHEN THESE GUYS REALLY GET INTO IT, THEY REALLY DO GET INTO IT.

>> I GUESS THE FOLLOW-UP WOULD BE, WHAT IS IT ABOUT BLACK BOYS THAT YOU THINK NEEDS TO BE TOLD THAT THEY CAN'T EXPRESS THEMSELVES, LIKE MAYBE WHITE BOYS?

>> OFTEN THE BIGGEST ISSUE IS ABOUT WHAT MEN SHOULD BE, RIGHT, AND HOW SOCIETY IS KIND OF FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS PUT MEN INTO A POSITION OF BRAUN AND BEING STOIC AND NOT BEING ABLE TO EXPRESS YOURSELVES THROUGH ANYTHING, THROUGH SONG, THROUGH DANCE.

AND YOU CAN DOUBLE, TRIPLE THAT WHEN YOU ADD BLACK MEN TO THAT AND THIS IMAGE, THIS NARRATIVE THAT SOCIETY, MEDIA AND ART GIVES OF WHAT A BLACK MAN SHOULD BE.

I THINK AS YOUNG BLACK MEN, WE CONSUME THAT.

AND WE GO OKAY, I NEED TO BE THIS IMAGE OF BLACKNESS, OR I'M NOT BLACK ENOUGH.

I PUT SIX YOUNG, AUTHENTIC, YOUNG BLACK BOYS ON STAGE TO WHOEVER YOU ARE, YOU ARE ENOUGH.

>> AND THIS IS FOR BLACK BOYS WHO ARE CONSIDERED SUICIDE THAT DECIDED OUR STORIES MUST BE TOLD AND OUR JOY FOREVER RISING.

>> SO WHAT ARE THE SIX STAGES OF BEING A BLACK YOUTH?

>> SO I'VE WRITTEN MONOLOGUES.

WHAT HAPPENS IS EVERY TIME WE CAST AND RECAST THE SHOW, I GET YOUNG BLACK MEN TO COME AND I GO TO THEM WHICH ONE OF THESE MONOLOGUES ATEAL TO YOU?

SO EVERY TIME WE DO THE SHOW, THE CHARACTERS FEEL DIFFERENT, BECAUSE I CAN'T DEFINE WHAT SIX VERSIONS OF BLACKNESS IS.

I JUST MADE DISTINCTIVELY DIFFERENT MONTH LOGS.

EVERY SINGLE TIME WE GET THESE YOUNG MEN TO POUR INTO IT AND SHOW HOW THEY ARE DIFFERENT.

WE'VE DONE THIS FOUR TIMES NOW.

AND EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS BEEN DIFFERENT.

>> WHEN YOU SAY FOUR TIMES, IT'S FOUR PRODUCTIONS ACROSS LONDON, WHICH HAVE GONE FROM SMALL TO NOW.

>> YEP.

>> ON THE WEST END AGAIN.

>> WE WENT FROM 80 SEATS TO 900 IN THE APOLLO.

AND AGAIN HERE IN THE GARRICK.

IT'S BEEN CRAZY, RIGHT.

>> IN A MINUTE, I'M GOING GET TO AUDIENCE REACTION.

BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU FIRST THE ORIGIN STORY, SO TO SPEAK.

I'VE READ THAT YOU WERE ON THE TUBE.

TRAYVON MARTIN HAD BEEN KILLED IN THAT HORRIBLE STAND YOUR GROUND INCIDENT IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> YEAH.

>> AND YOU HEARD PEOPLE TALKING THAN AND ABOUT TRAYVON.

WHAT DID YOU HEAR?

>> THAT WAS A DISCUSSION WHERE WHAT WAS BEING SAID WAS HE WAS A YOUNG BLACK BOY IN THE HOOD.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

>> IN A HOODIE?

>> IN A HOODIE.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

I REMEMBER THINKING I'M A YOUNG BLACK BOY AND I WEAR A HOODIE.

IS THAT AN EXCUSE?

IS THAT A REASON TO TAKE AWAY OUR LIVELIHOOD OR TO LOOK AT US AS LESSER THAN A HUMAN BEING?

AND I THINK AT THAT TIME I HAD THIS IDEA WITH THIS PLACE WELL IN MY HEAD.

BUT THAT WAS A MAJOR CATALYST FOR ME TO GO OKAY, I REALLY NEED TO START PUTTING PEN TO PAPER NOW BECAUSE THIS PLAY FELT URGENT IN THAT MOMENT.

>> I WONDER WHAT YOU FELT IN THAT MOMENT APART FROM SHOCKED THAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY THAT, BUT WERE YOU ANGRY?

BECAUSE I HEARD FOR YOU IT WAS LIKE EITHER YOU'RE GOING REACT BY PUNCHING.

THE PEN OR THE SWORD.

>> YEAH, FOR ME, IT WAS DISAPPOINTMENT.

BUT I SUPPOSE IN MY HEART IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I RAILROAD KNEW.

I THINK AT THAT PART IN MY LIFE I DID FEEL LIKE A SECOND OR THIRD CLASS CITIZEN.

I DIDN'T FEEL LIE I HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS MYSELF IN THE WAY I REALLY WANTED TO.

IT WAS MIXTURE OF ALL THE THINGS THAT MADE ME GO HOME THAT NIGHT AND GO OKAY, I REALLY NEED TOE PUT THIS INTO ART RIGHT NOW.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A COUPLE OF THE CHARACTERS.

ONE CHARACTER FEELS HE ISN'T BLACK ENOUGH.

HE SAYS "I THOUGHT I NEEDED TO BLACK UP."

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?

>> OH, 100%.

THIS IS WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT EARLIER IN TERMS OF IF YOU ARE FED A NARRATIVE OF WHAT A BLACK MAN IS SUPPOSED TO BE, AND THAT NARRATIVE COMES AT YOU EVERY SINGLE YEAR FOR YOUR WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE, THEN AT SOME POINT YOU GO IF I DON'T FIT INTO THAT BOX, THEN I'M NOT BLACK, RIGHT?

AND YOU HAVE THIS HUGE IDENTITY CRISIS.

IT COULD BE AS EARLY AS 9 OR 8 YEARS OLD WHERE YOU GO I DON'T KNOW WHERE I FIT IN THERE.

I JUST DON'T KNOW.

I FEEL LIKE AS A SOCIETY, WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT IN YOUNG PEOPLE.

I DON'T THINK WE THINK THAT SOMEBODY THAT AGE CAN ACTUALLY BE HAVING A MASSIVE MELTDOWN AND CRISIS.

BUT THAT'S WHAT MY CHARACTER IS HE IS GOING I'VE SEEN THESE DISTINCTIVE PICTURES OF BLACKNESS THAT NONE OF THEM OFFER ADIPOSE OF WHAT I AM OR WANT TO BE.

>> AND THERE IS ANOTHER CHARACTER.

SO MANY BLACK BOYS ARE ACTUALLY NERDY.

>> YEAH.

>> YOU WENT TO ENGINEERING SCHOOL.

>> EXACTLY.

IT'S ONE AND THE SAME THING IN TERMS OF YOU CAN BE THE BIGGEST NERD IN THE WORLD AND STILL AUTHENTICALLY BLACK.

WHERE DO YOU DO TO?

YOU CONTINUALLY FEEL LIKE YOU'RE NOT ENOUGH.

SO I WAS OKAY, COOL.

HOW MANY CAN GHAIF ME?

BECAUSE I WANT TO EXPRESS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE IN TWO HOURS.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT PARENTS?

>> THERE IS A LOT OF NARRATIVES THAT SPEAK ABOUT ABSENT FATHERHOOD.

I FEEL LIKE THAT'S BEEN DONE AND DONE AND DONE AGAIN.

I WANT TO TALK WHAT HAPPENS IF FATHERS ARE ACTUALLY IN THE HOUSE.

WHAT HAPPENS IF FATHERS HAVEN'T HAD FATHERS.

THAT IN ITSELF IS QUITE DIFFERENT R DIFFICULT.

AND I WANT TO REALLY LOOK AT THE NUANCES OF FATHERHOOD THAT I'VE NEVER REALLY SEEN DEPICTED BEFORE, AND HOW CERTAIN PARENTS CAN GET IT WRONG, EVEN WHEN THEY'RE TRYING TO GET IT RIGHT.

AND HOW THAT COULD LEAD TO SOMEBODY OR A YOUNG MAN HAVING TO DIE HIMSELF IN THAT PROCESS.

SO THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO WITH THIS PLAY IS HAVE THAT NEGOTIATION.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT YOU?

BECAUSE YOU HAVE FOUR YOUNG KIDS.

>> I HAVE FOUR YOUNG KIDS.

>> YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

>> HOW IS PARENTHOOD IN THIS WORLD?

>> IT'S DIFFICULT.

IT'S AS DIFFICULT AS ANY PARENT ANYWHERE RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE GOING THROUGH DIFFICULT TIMES.

AND I'VE GOT FOUR YOUNG BOYS.

THEIR JOURNEY AND THEIR LIFE IS VERY DIFFERENT.

THEY GREW UP IN A DIFFERENT AREA, THEIR SCHOOL IS DIFFERENT THAN THE KIND OF SCHOOL I WENT TO.

SO FOR ME IT'S MAKE SURE I GIVE THEM ENOUGH OF THE ROUGHNESS.

I THINK EVERY DAY ME AND MY WIFE SAY EVERY DAY AS IT COMES, WE'RE LEARNING.

>> YOU WERE ONE OF FIVE SIBLINGS.

AND YOU SPEAK A LOT ABOUT MOTHER I THINK MOSTLY WAS THERE FOR YOU.

HOW MUCH OF AN IMPACT, AND WHAT KIND OF AN IMPACT DID THAT HAVE ON YOU AND YOUR FAMILY?

>> HUGE.

FROM THE MAJORITY OF MY LIFE, MY MOM HAS BEEN MY BEST FRIEND AND THE CLOSEST PERSON TO ME.

I THINK IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING.

SHE WAS THE MATRIARCH IN THE HOUSE.

BUT I THINK FOR HER, ESPECIALLY WHERE I GREW UP, IT WAS QUITE DANGEROUS TIME.

AND, YOU KNOW, I FELT A LOT OF THE TIME ALMOST SUFFOCATED.

AND I THINK NOW AS A PARENT, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHERE SHE WAS COMING FROM AND THE KIND OF THINGS THAT SHE COULD SEE THAT I COULDN'T SEE.

AND ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS SHE WAS CONCERNED, HER JOB WAS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE FED, THAT WE WERE CLOTHED AND THAT WE HAD AN EDUCATION.

AND SHE EXCELLED.

AND I FEEL LIKE THE KIND OF STUFF THAT SHE HAD TO GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, AS A MOTHER, AS SOMEBODY WHO WAS WORKING TWO JOBS TO FEED US, ALLOWED ME AND MY SIBLINGS TO NOW GO AND HAVE THE CAREER THAT WE ARE HAVING.

SO, YEAH, THAT'S MY MOM.

>> WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD FROM AUDIENCES?

AND WHAT'S BEEN THE MAKEUP OF THE AUDIENCES?

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S ALMOST LIKE A CONCERT IN HERE.

IT'S ELECTRIC.

AND THERE IS A CERTAIN BEAUTY TO WITNESSING AUDIENCES WITNESS THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES ON THE STAGE, YOU KNOW.

AND HAVING A WHOLE ENTIRE EVENING THAT'S CATERED FOR THEM.

FROM THE MOMENT THAT YOU COME IN AND YOU HAVE ALL THE MUSIC IS BY YOUNG BLACK ARTISTS, AND YOU COME IN ON THE STAGE AND YOU GO WOW, THIS IS UNLIKE ANY WESTERN EXPERIENCE EVER.

I GREW UP IN A SPACE WHERE EVEN IF I WENT TO TAKE MY PHONE OUT, SOMEONE WOULD BE SHH, BE QUIET!

WHERE YOU COME IN HERE AND EVERYBODY IS LAUGHING ON THE FLOOR, ROLLING AROUND.

IT'S CRAZY.

>> SO THAT'S ENCOURAGED.

I REMEMBER THAT AT THE ROYAL COURT TOO.

>> THAT IS THE KIND OF SPACE THAT I WANT TO WATCH THEREIN.

YOU COME OUT, YOU SPENT YOUR MONEY, HAVE A GOOD TIME.

AND THE MAKEUP TELEPHONE AUDIENCE A NEW DIORAMA.

IT WAS MOSTLY I WOULD SAY ABOUT 1995 THAT SENT BLACK AUDIENCES WE WANT THIS SHOW.

DON'T CARE ABOUT A REVIEW, WE WANT TO COME AND SEE IT.

THE SHOW HAS GROWN.

IT NOW HAS AN AUDIENCE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

YEAH, IT'S FOR BLACK BOYS, WE WANT TO ALSO WANT TO COME AND SEE THIS PIECE OF ART THAT EVERYBODY IS SPEAKING ABOUT.

>> THE GOVERNMENT ITSELF IS NOT DOING WHAT IT USED TO DO, WHICH IS REALLY POUR MONEY INTO ARTS.

>> YEAH.

>> AND WE CAN SEE THAT SOME OF THE BIG PLAYS ON THE WEST END ARE MOVIE STAR PLACE.

>> YEAH, YEAH.

>> SO THEY BRING IN HUGE ACTORS AND ACTRESSES.

HERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNKNOWN, AND IT'S A MASSIVE HIT.

AND YOU'RE FILLING THE SEATS.

>> YEAH.

I FEEL LIKE LACK OF RESOURCES IS HITTING EVERYBODY TERRIBLY, ESPECIALLY THE SUBSIDIZED WHERE THERE IS LITERALLY CRUMBLE.

CERTAIN PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, THEIR WHOLE ENTIRE FUNDING HAS BEEN CUT.

SO IT IS A TIME WHERE AS A COMMUNITY, WE ARE ALL TRYING TO GATHER AROUND AND TOE HELP AND SUPPORT ONCE ANOTHER.

AND I THINK IN TERMS OF THE WEST END, I MEAN, IT'S COMMERCIAL.

GETTING BIG STARS IS PART OF THE HISTORY AND THE BLOOD OF WHAT COMMERCIAL THEATER IS.

AND IT'S A TESTAMENT THAT THEY REALLY TOOK A PLAN ON US.

WOULD YOU WANT TO RECAST AND GET SOME BIG NAMES.

THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT THIS PLAY THAT IS AUTHENTIC AND RAW, YOU KNOW.

LIVE THE EXPERIENCE.

NO.

AND I REALLY, REALLY FOUGHT TO HAVE THESE YOUNG MEN IN THERE.

AND NICO WAS LIKE YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.

LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS.

>> AND THAT'S THE PRODUCER?

THEY PRODUCE OTHER OF THE PLAY.

NOW WE'RE IN A POSITION THAT MAKES SENSE.

BUT BACK THEN.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE YOUNG MEN?

ARE THEY LONG-TERM ACTORS?

WHAT HAS IT DONE FOR THEM?

>> OH, MAN.

SO THIS WE WENT TO OUR SECOND I KNOW.

THE FIRST CAST WERE WHEN I MET ONE OF THEM, THEY WERE WORKING IN ANOTHER PLAY IN ANOTHER THEATER AS AN USHER.

>> AS AN USHER?

>> AS AN USHER.

ONE OF THEM WAS A PAINTER.

TWO OF THEM HAD JUST FINISHED SCHOOL.

ONE OF THEM HAD GIVEN UP ACTING, AND THIS TIME AROUND WE'VE GOT ONE OF THE YOUNG MEN, SHAQUILLE WHO WAS AN USHER LAST YEAR.

>> HOW DO YOU RECRUIT THEM?

HOW DO YOU FIND THEM?

>> IT'S AN OPEN CALL.

WE HAVE A REALLY GREAT CASTING DIRECTOR.

BUT IT'S ALSO A CASE OF I DON'T WANT TO -- IF YOU ARE YOUNG AND YOU ARE BLACK, YOU SHOULD HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO BE A PART OF THIS, BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR STORY, ESSENTIALLY.

>> AND DO THEY WANT TO STAY IN IT, IN ACTING?

>> OH, 100%, 100%.

NOW THEY'RE WEST END STARS.

>> THEIR HEADS ARE STILL ON THEIR SHOULDERS?

>> THAT'S MY JOB.

I MAKE SURE I KEEP THEM GROUNDED.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT SOMETHING RED THROW GRADE ABOUT SIDNEY POITIER AND THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

>> THAT WAS REVIEWED INCREDIBLY HIGHLY, INCREDIBLE PERFORMANCE.

IT CAME OUT AROUND THE SAME TIME AS "BLACK BOYS."

IT WAS A REAL MOMENT FOR ME OF HAVING THESE TWO PLAYS IN THE WEST END.

IT WAS LIFE-CHANGING.

>> TELL ME ABOUT SIDNEY POITIER AND CIVIL RIGHTS.

THIS IS VERY AMERICAN.

>> YEAH.

>> I'M INTERESTED IN ANYTHING I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.

>> BUT YOU DO KNOW ABOUT CIVIL RIGHTS.

>> I DO.

I DO.

BUT I DIDN'T KNOW A LOT ABOUT McCARTHYISM, RIGHT, AND THAT KIND OF CULTURE WHERE PEOPLE WERE LITERALLY HAVING THEIR CAREERS ENDED LIKE THAT.

AND OKAY, THERE IS SOME SIMILARITIES WITH THAT AND WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS CHARACTER OR THIS HUMAN BEING OF SIDNEY POITIER WHO IN THE MIDST OF ALL OF THIS IS STANDING THERE AND GOING I HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ABOUT MY INTEGRITY IF I'M GOING GET FURTHER ALONG IN MY CAREER.

I READ THIS IN AN ARTICLE WHICH WAS JUST ABOUT HOW GREAT SYDNEY WAS.

HOLD ON ONE SECOND.

THIS IS A DRAMA RIGHT NOW.

THIS IS A THRILLER, LITERALLY ABOUT FIVE LINES OF TEXT.

LET ME SEE WHAT I CAN DO HERE.

I FEEL A DIFFERENCE IN TWO PLAYS FOR ME WAS FOR "BLACK BOYS" LIVE THE EXPERIENCE.

AT THE TIME RETROGRADE, I HAD NEVER BEEN TO NEW YORK.

I DID ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF OF RESEARCH EVERY SINGLE DAY.

I CAN'T AFFORD TO GET A SINGLE THING WRONG ABOUT THIS BECAUSE THIS IS SOMEBODY ELSE'S LIVED EXPERIENCE.

I WAS SO NERVOUS PUTTING THE PLAY ON.

>> I HOPE TO SEE IT BECAUSE I MISSED IT.

BLACK BOYS, ARE YOU TAKING TO IT THE UNITED STATES, BROADWAY?

>> LET'S SEE, LET'S SEE.

YEAH, YEAH, CALL ME.

CALL ME.

>> RYAN CALAIS CAMERON, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> "BLACK BOYS" IS AN AMAZING EXPERIENCE.

AND NEAR LONDON DUE TO POPULAR DEMAND, ITS RUN HAS BEEN EXTENDED FOR AN EXTRA MONTH UNTIL JUNE 1.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, AN INSPIRING IMMIGRANT STORY AS WE CELEBRATE THE LIFE OF MARTIN GREENFIELD, WHO WAS CONSIDERED AMERICA'S GREATEST GENTLE MAN'S TAILOR.

GREENFIELD WAS SENT TO AUSCHWITZ AS A TEENAGER WHERE HIS FAMILY WAS KILLED.

HE LEARNED TO SEW THERE AND CREDITS THOSE SKILLS WITH SAVING HIS LIFE.

WHEN HE REACHED AMERICA, GREENFIELD WENT ON TO DRESS MANY PRESIDENTS, MOVIE STARS AND ATHLETES FROM HIS SHOP IN BROOKLYN.

>> THE FIRST SUIT GOING BACK TO EISENHOWER, CLINTON, MAYOR BLOOMBERG, ED KOCH.

THE BEST DRESSED PEOPLE ARE DRESSED BY ME.

>> AND IN AN AMAZING TWIST OF HISTORY, YEARS BEFORE GREENFIELD DRESSED PRESIDENT EISENHOWER, HE FIRST ACTUALLY SAW GENERAL EISENHOWER TOURING A LIBERATED AUSCHWITZ IN 1945.

MARTIN GREENFIELD DIED ON WEDNESDAY ON LONG ISLAND.

HE WAS 95 YEARS OLD.

THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP ON THE SHOW EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOOD NIGHT FROM LONDON.

♪♪