>> Braude: TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON": AFTER ANOTHER DAY IN THE HOT SEAT FOR SUPREME COURT NOMINEE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, FIELDING QUESTIONS AND ATTACKS FROM REPUBLICANS ON THE SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE, I'M JOINED BY LAW PROFESSOR NJERI MATHIS RUTLEDGE, WHO STUDIED AT HARVARD LAW SCHOOL WITH JUDGE JACKSON AND WAS AT TODAY'S HEARING.

THEN, LATER, SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY CANDIDATE, BOSTON CITY COUNCILOR RICARDO ARROYO, WILL MAKE HIS CASE TO BE THE CITIES OF BOSTON, REVERE, WINTHROP, AND CHELSEA'S, TOP PROSECUTOR.

AND, FINALLY, STATE REPRESENTATIVE TRAM NGUYEN AND LEVERETT WING, PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

OF THE COMMONWEALTH SEMINAR, ON WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING TO PROTECT ASIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITIES A YEAR AFTER THE ATLANTA SPA KILLINGS.

♪♪ >> Braude: IT'S BEEN A FULL DAY OF SENATE QUESTIONING FOR JUDGE KETANJI BROWN JACKSON, WHO, IF CONFIRMED, WOULD BE THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN ON THE SUPREME COURT.

BUT WITH DEMOCRATS CLEARLY HAVING THE VOTES TO GET HER THROUGH, FOR REPUBLICANS TODAY WAS LESS ABOUT HER CONSIDERABLE QUALIFICATIONS, AS A HARVARD LAW GRADUATE WHO'S SERVED AS A FEDERAL DISTRICT AND APPEALS COURT JUDGE, PUBLIC DEFENDER, AND MEMBER OF THE U.S.

SENTENCING COMMISSION, AND MORE ABOUT SCORING POLITICAL POINTS AND SETTLING OLD SCORES.

>> WHAT FAITH ARE YOU, BY THE WAY?

>> SENATOR, I AM PROTESTANT.

>> COULD YOU FAIRLY JUDGE A CATHOLIC?

HOW WOULD YOU FEEL IF SOMEBODY UP HERE ON OUR SIDE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU ATTEND CHURCH TOO MUCH FOR ME OR YOUR FAITH IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT TO ME, AND THEY WOULD SUGGEST THAT IT WOULD AFFECT YOUR DECISION.

WOULD YOU FIND THAT OFFENSIVE?

>> SENATOR, I'M -- I'M -- >> I WOULD IF I WERE YOU.

I FOUND IT OFFENSIVE WHEN THEY SAID IT ABOUT JUDGE BARRETT.

>> CRITICAL RACE THEORY FRAMES ALL OF SOCIETY AS A FUNDAMENTAL AND INTRACTABLE BATTLE BETWEEN THE RACES.

IT VIEWS EVERY CONFLICT AS A RACIAL CONFLICT.

DO YOU THINK THAT'S AN ACCURATE WAY OF VIEWING SOCIETY AND THE WORLD WE LIVE IN?

>> SENATOR, I DON'T THINK SO.

>> IS CRITICAL RACE THEORY TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS?

IS IT TAUGHT IN KINDERGARTEN THROUGH 12th?

>> SENATOR, I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T THINK SO.

I BELIEVE IT'S AN ACADEMIC THEORY THAT'S AT THE LAW SCHOOL LEVEL.

>> Braude: BUT THROUGHOUT, JUDGE JACKSON MADE IT CLEAR SHE'S NOT IN THIS TO PLAY POLITICS, NOR TO SET POLICY.

>> I AM ACUTELY AWARE THAT AS A JUDGE IN OUR SYSTEM, I HAVE LIMITED POWER AND I AM TRYING IN EVERY CASE TO STAY IN MY LANE.

>> Braude: I'M JOINED BY NJERI RUTLEDGE, A LAW PROFESSOR AT SOUTH TEXAS COLLEGE OF LAW HOUSTON, WHO ATTENDED HARVARD LAW WITH JUDGE JACKSON AND WHO WAS AT TODAY'S HEARING.

>> Braude: IT'S SO GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: I AM SO JEALOUS THAT YOU WERE IN THE ROOM YESTERDAY AND TODAY, LIMITED ATTENDANCE, AND WHAT IS THE ATMOSPHERE LIKE AT A MOMENT LIKE THIS WHEN YOU'RE PHYSICALLY THERE?

>> THE FIRST DAY FELT ELECTRIC.

IT ACTUALLY WASN'T VERY CROWDED THE FIRST DAY.

I THINK I WAS ABLE TO GET IN AT 3:00, WHICH WAS PERFECT TIMING, BECAUSE I GOT TO HERE PROFESSOR LISA FAIRFAX'S INTRODUCTION.

I WENT TO LAW SCHOOL WITH LISA AS WELL, WHO WAS ONE OF HER ROOMMATES.

AND I GOT TO HEAR JUDGE JACKSON.

AND ONCE JUDGE JACKSON RAISED HER RIGHT HAND AND TOOK THE OATH, I FELT VERY EMOTIONAL.

EVEN THOUGH I HAD KNOWN THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT IT REALLY FELT REAL, AND THE WEIGHT OF IT ALL WAS REALLY QUITE, QUITE MOVING.

>> Braude: NOT SURPRISINGLY, EVERY DEMOCRAT WHO I SAW TODAY DURING THE 30 MINUTES IS VERY SUPPORTIVE.

HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE REPUBLICAN LINE OF QUESTIONING TODAY?

>> VERY DISAPPOINTING.

>> Braude: WHY?

>> I THINK DESPITE THE FACT THAT THEY SAID THEY WERE GOING TO DO A FAIR HEARING, AND IT WASN'T GOING TO BE A CIRCUS, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY HAVE ENGAGED IN A SMEAR CAMPAIGN, CALLING JUDGE JACKSON A DEFENDER OF TERRORISTS, AND SHE IS SOFT ON CRIME AND SOFT ON CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, AND ALL OF THOSE RIDICULOUS THINGS.

IT IS HIGHLY OFFENSIVE BECAUSE JUDGE JACKSON IS A MOTHER.

SHE HAS BEEN A FEDERAL JUDGE FOR OVER A DECADE.

AND SHE HAS A PROVEN RECORD OF BEING FAIR, EVEN-HANDED, AND UPHOLDING THE RULE OF LAW AND THE CONSTITUTION.

SO ALL OF THOSE NARRATIVES WAS REALLY A FORM OF POLITICAL THEATER, AS IF THEY'RE TRYING TO REFER TO THE MID-TERMS AS THEY GET READY TO CALL ALL DEMOCRATS AND ALL PROGRESSIVE PROSECUTORS SOFT ON CRIME.

I THINK THAT IS VERY DISAPPOINTING AND A DISSERVICE TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BECAUSE WE CAN'T KNOW MORE ABOUT JUDGE JACKSON IF THEY'RE SO BUSY SETTLING OLD SCORES AND TRYING TO DO THEIR PRE-CAMPAIGN SPEECHES.

>> Braude: CHUCK TODD FROM MEET THE PRESS SAID IT IS GOING TO BE LIKE CROSS-EXAMINATIONING BIDEN IN THE MID-TERMS.

IF THEY COULD BLAME JACKSON ON INFLATION, THEY WOULD DO THAT TOO.

I'M GOING TO LEAVE THAT WITH WHAT THE JUDGE SAID.

HOWEVER, THERE WAS A LOT OF CRITICISM OF TWO REPUBLICAN SENATORS TODAY, ASKING THE JUDGE ABOUT USING THE TERM "WAR CRIMINALS," AND BOTH TIMES SHE SAID, REFERENCING RUMSFELD AND PRESIDENT BUSH, AND BOTH TIMES SHE SAID SHE DIDN'T RECALL THE EXACT LANGUAGE.

AND WHILE THERE WAS A LOT OF CRITICISM ON LINE FOR THOSE QUESTIONS, I LOOKED IT UP, AND SHE DID SAY IN A BRIEF THAT THEIR ACTIONS -- THEIR ACTIONS DID CONSTITUTE WAG CRIMES.

SO THAT IS FAIR GAME, IS IT NOT?

SHE IS ENTITLED TO ANSWER.

AND THAT IS FACT-BASED, SO THEY'RE ENTITLED TO ASK, AREN'T THEY?

>> I THINK IT IS FAIR GAME, AS LONG AS IT IS NOT TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SAYING YOUR ACTIONS ARE GOING TO AMOUNT TO WAR CRIMES VERSUS YOU'RE A WAR CRIMINAL.

I THINK THEY TRIED TO SAY SHE CALLED THE PRESIDENT A WAR CRIMINAL, WHICH IS A LITTLE BIT MUCH.

AND IT IS A BIT MISINGENUOUS IN LIGHT OF HOW HABEAS CORPUS WORKED AT THAT TIME.

MOST OF THE TIME WHEN PEOPLE WERE RELEASED FROM QUANTANAMO BAY, IT IS BECAUSE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE AND THE MILITARY TRIBUNAL.

TO TRY TO PUT ALL OF THAT ON HER SHOULDERS, AND TALKING ABOUT RECIDIVISM, AND YOU'RE LETTING THEM OUT SO THEY CAN TERRORIZE THE COUNTRY AGAIN IS A STRETCH AND A MISCHARACTERIZATION.

>> Braude: YESTERDAY SENATOR BLACKBURN BROUGHT UP CRITICAL RACE THEORY, AND MISREPRESENTED SOMETHING JUDGE JACKSON HAD SAID IN A SPEECH ABOUT WHAT SHE INCORPORATES INTO HER THINKING WHEN SHE IS DOING SENTENCING, SUGGESTING CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS PART OF IT.

YOUR LAW SCHOOL CLASSMATE, NOT ONLY JUDGE JACKSON, TED CRUZ, BRINGING UP CRITICAL RACE THEORY AGAIN, TAKING IT TO THE POINT THAT, YOU KNOW, DID YOU KNOW WHETHER IT IS TAUGHT IN GRADES "X" THROUGH "Y"?

WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

>> I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REACTION IS OF THE GENERAL AMERICAN PEOPLE -- >> Braude: HOW ABOUT YOU?

>> HUM?

>> Braude: HOW ABOUT YOU, I'M ASKING?

>> I WAS OUTRAGED.

IT IS REALLY QUITE BRILLIANT HOW THE REPUBLICANS CAN TAKE A TERM AND MAKE IT SUCH A HOT BUTTON ISSUE, LIKE CRITICAL RACE THEORY, LIKE ASSUMING THAT EVERYONE WHO IS A DEMOCRAT IS SOFT ON CRIME.

CRITICAL RACE THEORY, AS JUDGE JACKSON ACCURATELY DESCRIBED, IS SOMETHING THAT WE TALKED ABOUT IN LAW SCHOOL.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING WE'RE TEACHING IN "K" THROUGH 12.

IN "K" THROUGH 12, WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF ALL PEOPLE, INCLUDING BLACK HISTORY.

BUT IT HAS BECOME SUCH A HOT BUTTON ISSUE, THAT WHEN TED CRUZ AND MARSHA BLACKBURN TALK ABOUT CRITICAL RACE THEORY, THEY'RE JUST TRYING TO TALK TO THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JUDGE JACKSON.

JUDGE JACKSON IS NOT A POLITICIAN.

SHE IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR POLICY.

IF THEY WANT TO ASK HER ABOUT HOW SHE VIEWS THE CONSTITUTION, THAT'S FAIR GAME.

BUT TO TALK ABOUT THINGS LIKE CRITICAL RACE THEORY, WHAT IS NEXT, GAS PRICES?

>> Braude: WELL, I HAVE A FEELING THAT GAS PRICES WERE NOT REALLY WHERE THEY WERE GOING.

I THINK IT MAY HAVE REFLECTED THEIR CONUNDRUM ABOUT THE FACT THIS IS A BLACK WOMAN.

AND WHILE THEY ALL WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO SAY HOW CHARMING THIS BLACK WOMAN WAS AND HOW THRILLED THEY WERE TO MEET HER -- THE ONLY OTHER QUESTION I HEARD THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY, I THOUGHT, ABOUT RACE WHEN WE SENATOR CORNYN FROM TEXAS ASKED THE QUESTION WHETHER SHE CELEBRATED WHEN CLARENCE THOMAS WAS NOMINATED, AND SHE ABUSED AND SHE SAID, "I BELIEVE I DID."

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY THAT ANSWER FROM THE JUDGE?

>> NO.

YOU KNOW, JUDGE CLARENCE THOMAS' NOMINATION WAS VERY COMPLICATED FOR THE BLACK COMMUNITY BECAUSE HE WAS REPLACING JUSTICE THURGOOD MARSHALL, JUST LIKE JUSTICE AMY CONEY BARRETT REPLACED RUTH BADER GINSBURG, AND THEY WERE TOTALLY DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

AND SO WHILE I'M SURE THERE WAS A PART OF EVERYONE -- YOU KNOW, I ACTUALLY WORK WITH PEOPLE WHO KNOW JUSTICE THOMAS PERSONALLY, AND THEY SAY REALLY GREAT THINGS ABOUT HIM AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, HE IS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN JUDGE WITH A DIFFERENT IDEOLOGICAL BACKGROUND, AND WE'RE NOT MONOLITHIC.

SO FOR THAT, HIS ACHIEVEMENT, OF COURSE SHE WOULD CELEBRATE HIM.

>> Braude: I'M NOT SURE ANITA HILL WOULD CELEBRATE HIM GETTING THE NOMINATION.

>> PUTTING THAT ASIDE, I THINK SHE HAS BEEN ON RECORD SEGUNDO AS SAYING SHE DOESN'T FULLY UNDERSTAND HIM.

>> Braude: AS YOU KNOW, THREE REPUBLICANS VOTED FOR HER FOR LOWER COURT NOMINATIONS.

MERCMERMERCOWSKI AND LINDSEY GRAHAM.

IF SHE BECOMES A JUDGE ON THE SUPREME COURT, WITH ONLY DEMOCRATIC VOTES, DOES IT COMPROMISE HER EFFECTIVENESS OR CREDIBILITY?

>> NO, BUT IT WILL BE SEEN AS A SLAP IN THE FACE.

FOR A BRILLIANT JUSTICE -- A BRILLIANT JUDGE, WHO IS VERY QUALIFIED, AND WHO IS VERY FAVORED, AND WHO HAS RECEIVED BIPARTISAN CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT ON THREE SEPARATE OCCASIONS, FOR US TO HAVE TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE KAMALA HARRIS HAS TO CAST THE DECIDING VOTE WOULD BE VERY BITTERSWEET.

IN WEREN'T SENSE, ONE SENSE, SHE IS GOING TO BE A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, HOW DARE THEY DENY THIS BRILLIANT PERSON TO BE ON THE SUPREME COURT.

THEY'RE GOING TO KEEP THEIR SUPER CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY.

SHE HAS BEEN QUALIFIED.

SHE IS ENDORSE BIDE THE FRATERNITY ORDER OF POLICE.

AND SO I WOULD FIND IT VERY OFFENSIVE AND TROUBLING IF THEY TOOK THE PARTY LINE AND SAID NO.

>> Braude: QUALIFIED, SHE IS.

NJERI RUTLEDGE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Braude: NEXT UP, THE SUFFOLK COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY RACE IS HEATING UP.

BOSTON CITY COUNCILOR AND FORMER PUBLIC DEFENDER RICARDO ARROYO ANNOUNCED HIS RUN LAST MONTH, GOING UP AGAINST INTERIM DISTRICT ATTORNEY KEVIN HAYDEN, WHO ANNOUNCED HE WILL BE SEEKING A FULL TERM, AS WELL.

RICARDO ARROYO JOINS ME NOW.

>> Braude: IT IS GREAT TO SEE YOU, COUNSELOR.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING MERE.

>> Braude: WHY DO YOU THINK THEY SHOULD FIRE INTERIM HAYDEN, AND HIRE YOU?

>> WE MADE A DECISION IN 2017, FOR THE TOWN TO MOVE IN A MORE PROGRESSIVE DIRECTION.

I THINK RACHAEL ROLLINS HAS DONE SO MUCH OVER THE YEARS TO MOVE US TO EQUAL JUSTICE IN THE COMMONWEALTH, AND I THINK I AM THE CANDIDATE THAT WILL CONTINUE THAT WORK.

>> Braude: IS THE SUGGESTION THAT KEVIN HAYDEN DOESN'T CARE, IN YOUR ESTIMATION, ABOUT THE RACIAL DISPARITIES THAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING AS MUCH AS YOU DO?

>> I WOULDN'T SAY HE DOESN'T CARE.

BUT IT IS A MATTER OF THE POLICIES.

MY LIFE HAS BEEN DEDICATED TO THE SYSTEM OF JUSTICE.

AND WE NEED TO REQUIRE BEST POLICIES AND IMPLEMENTATION, AND, FRANKLY, I WOULD SAY I HAVE PLANNED OUT POLICIES, AND HAVE POLICIES AND THE TABLE THAT CONTINUE TO WORK.

[INAUDIBLE] I SUPPORT THE POLICIES THAT RACHAEL ROLLINS HAS PUT IN PLACE AND I WILL NOT DISRUPT THEM.

>> Braude: WHEN YOU SAY THE POLICIES OF RACHAEL ROLLINS, FOR MOST VIEWERS IT IS THE 15 LOWER LEVEL CRIMINAL OFFENSES SHE SAID SHE WOULD NOT PROSECUTE.

WHEN I ASKED HAYDEN ABOUT THAT, HE SAID HE BELIEVES DEEPLY IN DIVERSIONARY PROGRAMS AND WILL PROBABLY BE DOING THE SAME THING, ALTHOUGH HE WOULDN'T GIVE A STAMP OF APPROVAL TO HER SPECIFIC PROGRAM.

THAT'S NOT ENOUGH?

>> NO, THAT IS DEFINITELY NOT ENOUGH.

THERE ARE 13 COURTS, INCLUDING THE JUDICIAL COURT AND THE APPELLATE COURT, AND UNLESS YOU HAVE WRITTEN POLICIES LIKE RACHAEL ROLLINS DID HERE WITH THE 15, AND I AM REFERENCING THE 15 -- I ACTUALLY CREATE THAT DO NOT CHARGE WITH POLICY -- WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THAT, THAT ALLOWS US TO HAVE POLICIES THAT THE A.D.A.s AND THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S IN THOSE COURTROOMS CAN BASE THEIR DECISION-MAKING ON.

IT IS NOT WHAT MY DECISION-MAKING IS ON BECAUSE I CAN'T BE AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE DISTRICT COURTROOMS, AND NEITHER CAN HE.

AND SO WHEN HE SAYS HE DOESN'T HAVE A WRITTEN LIST, THE REALITY IS WE GET 20,000 TO 25,000 CASES IN THE COMMONWEALTH AND YOU NEED WRITTEN POLICIES TO ADDRESS THAT.

>> Braude: TO BE CLEAR -- I DON'T WANT TO BEAT THIS TOO LONG, BUT RACHAEL ROLLINS HERSELF TOLD ME WHEN SHE WAS D.A., IT WAS A REBUTTABLE PRESUMPTION, IT WAS NOT AN ABSOLUTE.

IN FACT, SOME OF THOSE 15 CRIMES WERE PROSECUTED UNDER HER.

>> IN FACT, ONE IN FOUR.

SO THE REALITY IS THE PROCESS -- AND, AGAIN, IT GOES BACK TO A WRITTEN FORMAT -- YOU HAD TO GO BACK TO THE D.A., AND SAY I THINK THIS IS WORTHY OF BREAKING OFF THIS LIST.

>> Braude: COUNSELOR, THE OTHER NIGHT WHEN KEVIN HAYDEN WAS HERE, HE MENTIONED SOMETHING CALLED A RAPID INDICTMENT PROGRAM HE IS INITIATING SO GUN CRIMES CAN BE EXPEDITED, DO YOU SUPPORT THAT INITIATIVE?

>> OF COURSE.

BUT THAT DEALS WITH CASES THAT ALREADY BEFORE THE COURT.

I'M PROPOSING A TASK FORCE THAT IS FOCUSED ON NON-FATAL SHOOTINGS.

IT IS ANYWHERE FROM 4% TO 17% ON NON-FATAL SHOOTINGS (indiscernable) AND WE SHOULD FOCUS MORE RESOURCES ON SOLVING THOSE AND PUTTING THAT TOGETHER.

I BELIEVE WE CAN PUT A TASK FORCE TOGETHER TO DO THAT.

>> Braude: THE GANG DATA BASE IS VERY CONTROVERSIAL.

KEVIN HAYDEN SAID HE WOULD LIKE IT TO BE MUCH MORE NARROWLY TAILORED.

YOU WANT TO DUMP.

THERE ARE SOME -- MAYBE KEVIN HAYDEN, BUT I'VE HEARD OTHERS SAY IT HAS GOT TO BE NARROWED, BUT IT HAS HELPED SOLVE MURDERS.

YOU DON'T BUY THAT?

>> THE D.P.D.

HASN'T TOLD ME THAT.

FOR SEVERAL YEARS I'VE BEEN GOING UP AGAINST THE GANG DATA BASE TO PROVE IF IT IS AFFECTIVE OR NOT (indiscernable) FRANKLY, THEY'RE NOT SURVEILLING CRIME.

THEY'RE WATCHING BASKETBALL.

SO THE FEDERAL APPELLATE COURT CAME BACK WITH A DECISION ON THIS AND TOOK THE GANG DATA BASE TO TASK IN THE SENSE THAT IT WAS INDISCRIMINATE.

AND I HAVE SAID THE SAME.

THE ISSUE WITH THE LIST IS IN THE LAST YEAR THEY ADDED UNDER 108, AND IT USES THE OLD FORMAT FOR PUTTING THESE NAMES ON THERE, AND YOU CAN'T HAVE FOCUSED DETERRENTS WITH A NON-FOCUSED LIST.

THERE IS SOME REAL QUESTIONS IN CIVIL LIBERTIES AND THE CONSEQUENCES.

SO I DO NOT SUPPORT -- >> Braude: YOU KNOW -- >> JUST BECAUSE YOU BROUGHT THIS UP, WE ASKED THEM DIRECTLY, AND WE WENT BEFORE THE CITY COUNCIL IN MARCH OF LAST YEAR, AND WE ASKED THEM DIRECTLY, CAN YOU TRACE THE GANG DATA BASE FOR SOLVING ANY CRIME, AND THE ANSWER WAS NO.

>> Braude: YOU MENTIONED RACHAEL ROLLINS, AND I WOULD ARGUE AT LEAST A SIGNIFICANT ACTION DURING HER TIME WAS THE INTEGRITY BUREAU THAT LED TO THE RELEASE OF MEN, ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY OF COLOR, WHO HAD SPENT MORE THAN 20 YEARS IN JAIL.

THE MOST RECENT WAS THE STEPHEN PENA CASE, 28 YEARS IN JAIL.

THE JUDGE, WHEN HE ORDERED A HEARING ON THE QUESTION OF A NEW TRIAL, SAID THERE WAS PROSECUTORIAL AND POLICE MISCONDUCT.

WHEN I ASKED KEVIN HAYDEN IF HE WOULD AGREE WITH MR. PENA'S REQUEST FOR A NEW TRIAL, HE SAID HE WANTED TO HEAR BACK FROM HIS INTEGRITY REVIEW BUREAU TO SEE WHAT THEIR CONCLUSION WAS.

WOULD YOU, AS D.A., CONSENT TO A NEW TRIAL FOR MR. PENA?

>> YES.

AND I'VE ALREADY COME OUT WITH THE DATA THAT THE IS DECISION IS MADE.

I WOULD CONSENT TO A NEW TRIAL, AND I WOULD DO THAT NOW.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS IS THAT THE JUDGE MADE IT VERY CLEAR THERE WAS PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT IN THIS CASE.

AND THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME POLICE MISCONDUCT IN THE CASE IN THE WAY THAT EVIDENCE WAS HANDLED.

ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE SEEN FREQUENTLY, WHEN WE HAVE THESE CASES, WE TALK ABOUT MR. PENA, AND HOW GREAT IT IS THAT SOMEBODY WHO HAS SERVED TIME IS BEING RELEASED, BUT WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THE PROSECUTORS AND TCE POLICE WHO LED TO THAT WRONGFUL CONVICTION.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ACTION ON THAT.

IF THEY HAVE, IN FACT, PERPETRATED FRAUD ON MR. PENA.

>> Braude: RICARDO ARROYO, I LITERALLY HAVE 20 SECONDS LEFT.

THERE WAS A STORY IN THE GLOBE ABOUT ANTI-VAXXERS PROTESTING IN FRONT OF YOUR MOTHER'S HOUSE.

THEY SURELY WOULD SUPPORT IT IF IT WAS DIRECTED AT SOMEBODY'S MOTHER, BUT YOUR COLLEAGUES SAID HE IS CONCERNED ABOUT THE EQUAL TREATMENT OF PEOPLE OF COLOR -- >> THERE ARE SEVERAL LAWS ON THE BOOKS RIGHT NOW, THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT WITH NOISE ORDINANCES -- THERE ARE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT LAWS IN WHICH THEY COULD DO THAT.

THEY DON'T NEED THIS ONE TO DO THAT.

THIS ALLOWS PEOPLE TO PROTEST FROM 9 A.M. TO 9 P.M., 12 HOURS OF A 24 DAY.

AND NOBODY'S FAMILY MEMBERS SHOULD BE TARGETED.

BUT THIS LAW TO ME IS NOW RETAIL LERDRETAILERED.

>> Braude: RICARDO ARROYO, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> Braude: THIS PAST WEDNESDAY MARKED ONE YEAR SINCE A GUNMAN SHOT AND KILLED EIGHT PEOPLE AT THREE DIFFERENT SPAS IN AND AROUND ATLANTA.

SIX OF THE VICTIMS WERE WOMEN OF ASIAN DESCENT.

AND ALTHOUGH THE SHOOTER CLAIMED HIS ACTIONS WERE NOT RACIALLY MOTIVATED, IN THE YEAR-PLUS SINCE, ATTACKS AGAINST ASIAN-AMERICANS SKYROCKETED, THANKS, AT LEAST IN PART, TO PRONOUNCEMENTS LIKE THIS: >> I WOULD LIKE TO BEGIN BY ANNOUNCING SOME IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENTS IN OUR WAR AGAINST THE CHINESE VIRUS.

IT'S NOT RACIST AT ALL.

NO, NOT AT ALL.

IT COMES FROM CHINA.

THAT'S WHY.

IT COMES FROM CHINA.

I WANT TO BE ACCURATE.

>> Braude: BUT AS A RECENT "BOSTON GLOBE" OP-ED NOTES, "EVEN AS THESE ATTACKS HAVE CONTINUED, ASIAN COMMUNITIES HAVE PERSEVERED AND RALLIED."

HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, BOSTON ELECTED ITS FIRST ASIAN-AMERICAN MAYOR.

AND EIGHT STATE HOUSE MEMBERS IDENTIFY AS ASIAN-AMERICAN AND PACIFIC ISLANDER, THE MOST IN THE GOVERNING BODY'S HISTORY.

BUT ACCORDING TO THE AUTHORS OF THAT OP-ED, WE CAN AND SHOULD BE DOING MUCH MORE.

I'M JOINED BY STATE REPRESENTATIVE TRAM NGUYEN, WHO CO-AUTHORED THAT OP-ED, ALONG WITH LEVERETT WING, PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

OF THE COMMON SEMINAR, WHO ALSO JOINS US, AND NORTHERN EASTERN UNIVERSITY CHIEF-OF-STAFF STEPHEN CHAN.

>> Braude: IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> Braude: THE HATE CRIMES ARE UP, AND THEY'RE NOT JUST UP, IT IS ASTRONOMICAL INCREASES, ARE THEY NOT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE'RE SEEING INCREASES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AS WELL, HERE IN THE COMMONWEALTH, IT IS NOT JUST AGAINST THE ASIAN-AMERICANS, BUT WE'RE SEEING HATE CRIMES INCREASE OVER ALL.

>> Braude: BUT IN TERMS OF ASIAN-AMERICANS, I THINK I READ, WHAT, 350% INCREASE IN A YEAR IN NEW YORK CITY, MORE THAN 500% IN SAN FRANCISCO.

AND REPRESENTATIVE, THE PRIMARY VICTIMS OF THESE ATTACKS ARE WOMEN, AM I NOT RIGHT ABOUT THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND SENIORS, TOO, UNFORTUNATELY, THE MOST VULNERABLE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

>> Braude: ON THAT NOTE, THE NATIONAL ASIAN PACIFIC WOMEN'S FORUM PUT OUT THESE STATISTICS THAT ARE JUST JAW-DROPPING.

74% OF A.P.I.

WOMEN HAVE EXPERIENCED RACISM AND DISCRIMINATION IN THE PAST YEAR.

HAVE YOU, REPRESENTATIVE?

>> LOOK, I HAVE NOT BEEN A VICTIM OF A HATE CRIME, BUT I HAVE BEEN A VICTIM OF HATE SPEECH.

I THINK MANY OF US, PARTICULARLY AT THE IN THE A.P.I.

COMMUNITY ARE FAR FEW FAMILIAR WITH US BEING PERPETUAL FOREIGNERS, YOU DON'T LONG HERE.

I REMEMBER AN INCIDENT WHEN I WAS IN FRONT OF THE COURTHOUSE IN SUFFOLK COUNTY, AND I WAS STANDING OUT THERE WITH A CLIENT OF MINE, SHE IS A NEW IMMIGRANT, AND I WAS EXPLAINING THE LAW IN VIETNAMESE, AND THIS BIKER RODE BY AND SAID, GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

YOU DON'T BELONG HERE.

THAT IS JUST ONE OF MANY INCIDENTS THAT HAPPENED TO ME AND I'M SURE TO MANY OTHERS.

>> Braude: LEVERETT, I WAS RIGHT WHEN I SAID IT IS THAT PORTION THAT IS DIRECTED AT ASIAN-AMERICANS IS A PRODUCT OF TRUMP DRUMMING UP THIS ANAMOUS OVER COVID?

THAT IS THE GENESIS OF THIS, IS IT NOT?

>> FOR THE COVID HATE, BUT WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THESE TYPES OF THINGS HAVE BEEN PERPETRATED AGAINST THE ASIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY, STARTINGSTARTING WITH THE CHINESE EXCLUSION ACT, AND THE JAPANESE IN INTERMMENTS.

WHEN FOLKS ARE LOOKING FOR A SCAPEGOAT, SOMEBODY TO BLAME, THAT THE ASIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY HAS BEEN, UNFORTUNATELY, FRONT AND CENTER.

WHAT THIS WAS WAS JUST ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE A.P.I.

COMMUNITY BEING TARGETED FOR SCAPEGOATING.

>> Braude: YOU KNOW, LEVERETT, WHEN YOU SAY THE ASIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY HAS BEEN FRONT AND CENTER, THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY MANY OTHER COMMUNITIES OF COLOR THAT EXPERIENCE HATE IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU'RE DOING A LOT OF OUTRAGE TO OTHER COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, AND IT APPEARS TO ME, AT LEAST FROM YOUR OP-ED, YOU'RE GETTING A PRETTY GOOD RECEPTION.

IS THAT A FAIR CHARACTERIZATION?

>> YEAH.

THAT HAS BEEN ONE OF THE FEW SILVER LININGS TO ALL OF THIS.

WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO CREATE BETTER, STRONGER ALLYSHIPS, MORE UNDERSTANDING, MORE COMMON NALTCOMMONALITY BECAUSE THESE ARE THINGS WE'VE BEEN GOING TOGETHER, WITH GEORGE FLOYD AND AHMAUD ARBERY.

THE COMMUNITIES HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COME TOGETHER -- I'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR MANY YEARS, IN A WAY I HAVEN'T SEEN FOREVER.

IT IS A SMALL SILVER LINING TO THIS, BUT IT IS A SUBSTANTIAL ONE.

>> Braude: REPRESENTATIVE, YOU STARTED -- THE THREE OF YOU IN YOUR OP-ED TALK ABOUT SOLUTIONS, NOT JUST PROBLEMS.

YOU MENTIONED AT THE BOSTON FOUNDATION, THE ASH SHANE BUSINESS EMPOWERMENT COUNCIL IS HELPING BUSINESSES PARTICULARLY HURT BY THE PANDEMIC.

I WANT TO FOCUS ON SOME LEGISLATION I KNOW YOU'RE INVOLVED IN.

YOU CITE NEW YORK STATE, CALIFORNIA, AND I WAS UNAWARE OF EITHER OF THOSE EFFORTS, SERIOUS PUBLIC MONEY BEING DIRECTED AT THE ASIAN-AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

YOU ALSO THINK THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE REFORM OF HATE CRIMES STATUTES IN THIS STATE.

TO WHAT END?

TO DO WHAT?

>> SO LEVERETT BROUGHT UP THE AHMAUD ARBERY CASE, THAT WAS AN IMPETUS FOR THE HATE-CRIME BILL WE HAVE IN THE IN IN THE LEGISLATURE RIGHT NOW.

WE DID A DEEP DIVE INTO OUR OWN LAWS TO SEE IF THAT WERE TO HAPPEN HERE IN MASSACHUSETTS, WOULD WE BE ABLE TO HOLD PERPETRATORS ACCOUNTABLE?

AND WE STARTED WORKING WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE AND SENATOR HEINZ TO DO A DEEP DIVE TO SEE IF THERE ARE GAPS.

CERTAINLY WE IDENTIFIED SOME GAPS.

AND OUR LAWS ARE OVERLAPPING, AND THE JUDGES HAVE A DISINCENTIVE TO DEAL WITH HATE CRIMES.

AND WE DEALT WITH THE ISSUE OF OF MIXED MIXED MIXED MOTIVATION.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE ATLANTA KILLINGS, WHERE HE SAID I HAD A BAD DAY, BUT IT WAS WAS -- WE WANTED TO CLARIFY IF A CRIME IS COMMITTED IN HOLE WHOLE OR IN PART, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PURSUE THAT AS A HATE CRIME.

HATE DOES NOT NEED TO BE THE SINGLE MOTIVATING FACTOR IN ORDER FOR US TO DO THAT.

>> Braude: LEVERETT, I ONLY HAVE A MINUTE LEFT, BUT THERE IS ONE OTHER THING ON YOUR SOLUTIONS LIST, WHICH IS INITIATING MORE DIVERSE CURRICULUM IN THE SCHOOLS.

BRIEFLY TELL US WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN.

>> IT IS MORE INCLUSIVE -- AS YOU MENTIONED, IT IS MORE INCLUSIVE.

IT IS A WIDER NET.

IT EDUCATES EVERYBODY ABOUT ALL OF US.

PEOPLE TALK ABOUT ETHNIC HISTORY, ETHNIC STUDIES.

WE'VE BEEN LEARNING ETHNIC STUDIES FOR YEARS.

BUT WHAT ETHNICITY HAVE WE BE LEARNING.

FOR EXAMPLE, I LEARNED THAT COLUMBUS DISCOVERED AMERICA.

THERE WAS THE CUTE LITTLE LINE ABOUT THE MAN MANIFEST DESTINY THAT MADE SOME FEEL CUTE AND INNOCENT.

WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT MORE INCLUSIVE SO ALL OF OUR STORIES ARE TOLD AND ALL OF OUR HISTORIES ARE TOLD SO WE LEARN MORE ABOUT EACH OTHER AND WE CAN SEE OUR COMMONALITIES.

>> Braude: I WISH YOU GREATNESS IN ALL OF YOUR WORK.

THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

NICE TO BE HERE WITH MY FRIEND, LEVERETT.

>> SAME HERE, REPRESENTATIVE.

>> Braude: THAT'S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW.

I'LL BE JOINED BY RHODE ISLAND CONGRESSMAN DAVID CICILLINE, A