-The Vermont -!

House gives preliminary approval -to the renewable energy -standard, -bringing the bill -one step closer to law -as the Scott administration -continues to urge caution.

-The total costs of Vermont's -!

investment in renewable energy, -current -!

and future is sizable material -and therefore must be managed -at a pace that is affordable.

-Plus, Vermont's -congressional delegation -announces over $74 million -for housing projects.

-And we'll hear how one state -representative is working -to dignify the debt.

-Ahead on Vermont this week -from the Vermont -Public Studio in Winooski.

-This is Vermont this week -made possible in part -by the lintel foundation -and Milne travel.

-Thank you for -!

joining us on Vermont this week.

-It's Friday, March 22nd.

-I'm Colin Flanders.

-!

Joining us on our panel today, -we have Mitch Wertlieb -from Vermont Public.

-Calvin Cutler from Wcax -!

joining us remotely Anne Wallace -Allen from seven days.

-!

Thank you all for being with us.

-!

So we were talking a little bit -before the show, Calvin.

-I know you -as a political reporter.

- !

It's a really busy time of year.

- I'm a big March Madness fan.

-I think this is a bit -of a march madness -for political reporters -as we're nearing crossover -and in the coming hours.

-And one of the biggest bills -up for debate right now -is the renewable energy -standard.

-And I want you to talk -a little bit -!

about what that bill would do, -but also -what are the unknowns still?

-Because as far as I can tell, -there are more questions -than answers at this point.

-Yeah, indeed.

-I mean, this is the next big, -really big climate priority -for lawmakers -at the state House.

-And essentially what it does -is try to require -all of our energy -utilities to source -all of their power -from renewable, -whether that's renewable -!

resources, from hydro to solar -to wind, etc., and try to -build up more in state -renewable resources as well.

-But there's been, you know, -!

throughout this whole process, -this session, -!

there's been a big disagreement -about what -actually is the cost.

-And it's -tough to pin the cost, right?

-Because we are in the middle -!

of a dramatic energy transition, -electrifying everything -from heating to cars -to etc., everything else.

-And we don't know exactly -!

what the future will look like -in terms of that that market.

-But, you know, -the Scott administration -a few weeks ago had said that -it's going to be -about $1,000,000,000 -over the next ten years.

-We had new estimates -from legislative -!

economists this week that said -it was going to be about 150 -million to, -you know, 400 million ish.

-But I think one of the big -!

unknowns still is what it will, -!

how it will impact ratepayers.

-What does it mean -for your electric bill?

-And, you know, earlier -!

this week during the governor's -press conference, -we really heard him -come out swinging -against this, number one, -because of the costs.

-But in his eyes as well, -the cumulative costs -that we're seeing from, -you know, the clean heat -standard, -!

potentially from the new child -care tax.

-And so really, the governor -saw this as an opportunity -to continue to criticize the -legislature for overspending.

-But certainly the lawmakers -say that, you -know, -!

Vermonters are calling for this -and they want them -to be proactive on climate.

-So it's a really interesting -debate passed with 99 votes -!

now heads to the Senate.

Yeah.

-!

And in the Scott administration, -I mean, their point, -as you said, seems to be -!

that we just can't afford this -right now.

-And I imagine -on the other side of things, -there are people saying -we can't afford to wait here.

-Can you talk about that?

-Yeah, absolutely.

-And that's the other thing, -too, is we're seeing -and you know, Representative -Laura Sibilia, -an independent from Dover, -one of the biggest backers -of this policy.

-You know, -she's saying that -!

we need to make this transition, -we need to energize -and make our grid -more resilient.

-Green Mountain Power, -!

even in recent years, have said -!

that they are spending millions -and millions of dollars on, -you know, downed power lines -and outages -from extreme weather -!

that's fueled by climate change.

-And so many lawmakers and -!

many utilities as well see this.

-As you know, we need -urgent action on this now.

-So, again, it really is -this balance between pay now, -pay later.

-Yeah.

-And one of the big reasons -why we're in this -this crunch right now -!

as far as state spending goes, -is obviously -!

because the COVID funding that -we were relying on for years -has begun to dry up.

-We do have some good news, -though, on the federal -spending front.

-There was a press conference -this week from Vermont's -congressional delegation -who came back from Washington -with some good news -about some federal earmarks.

-Calvin, first, give us -a little background here.

-What are we talking about?

-Yeah.

-So these are basically direct -congressional spending, -you know, projects -that you can apply for -for your local -representative or senator -!

and that maybe they can make it -into the budget this year.

-!

We're getting about $74 million.

-!

In the past with Senator Patrick -Leahy, we've gotten -a bunch of money.

-!

But, you know, earmarks, though -!

the program recently came back -after being offline, maybe -I'll say for about ten years, -they were really -heavily criticized -for being ripe for corruption -and also for runaway -spending as well.

-!

But but certainly they're back.

-You know, there's a number -of projects that, you know, -Senators Welch and Sanders -and Congresswoman -Boland announced this week.

-Yeah.

-And Senator Sanders -at his press conference today -gave the pitch -for why these are important.

-I think we have a graphic -explaining his quote here, -but he essentially said -the funding -we are announcing -today will address -!

some of the most important needs -in every corner of our -!

It will address our health care -crisis.

-It will expand senior centers -and meal sites.

-It will help build -community centers, -fire stations, -improve water safety.

-!

The legislation will also begin -to address -!

the very serious housing crisis -that exists in virtually -every part of our state now.

- And I want to go to you.

- You've looked over the list.

-A lot of this is housing -related.

-What are we seeing here?

-What are some things -that stand out to you in -how big of a difference -will this make?

-!

Yeah, you know, in the old days, -it seemed as though these -this congressionally directed -spending -were also known as earmarks, -went for things like wages -or, as Calvin pointed out, -kind of things -!

that were viewed as boondoggles, -like very expensive -public buildings -and such things.

-And now increasingly, -we are seeing millions -!

and millions of federal dollars -going toward -housing in Vermont.

-So this event is really -a symptom or a sign -of what has become a crisis -!

in the state, no matter how much -!

money, COVID money, other money -we pour into housing.

-We still haven't met the need -and people are still unable -to find a place to live.

-!

As we can see through our own, -not only our housing, -our homeless crisis, -but the fact that -employers are having trouble -finding people -who are willing to move here -or able to move here.

-!

So this is a response to that.

-And there are -millions of dollars in there -!

for actual apartment buildings -and other types of housing -projects, affordable housing, -which -is what is the greatest need.

-And, you know, -!

all over the state in Bennington -and in Chittenden County -and not only housing itself, -but also some of the things -that go into housing like -water and sewer -!

infrastructure from mobile home -!

parks, electrical infrastructure -that is needed for housing.

-So you can really see here -how our needs are changing -and that we're sort of -!

going after every source we can -!

to find the money that we need -to build this this type -!

of infrastructure for the state.

-Yeah, that's right.

-And the delegation does say -!

that there could be more money -through this fund on the way.

-So as we wait to hear -how that settles out, Mitch, -I want to go to you.

-We did learn some new details -about another housing -related item this week, -and that's obviously -the emergency motel program.

-I know we spent -!

a lot of last week on this show -!

talking about this mad scramble -to figure out what to do.

-We now have some new details -!

fill us in on what we've learned -since last Friday.

-Well, there's been -!

so much confusion around this.

-And I think -where this all stemmed from -was the Scott administration -wanting to move people out -!

of the motel program and sort of -get them into other spaces.

-!

And there was a legal challenge -with all of this -because there were folks, -homeless advocates saying, -you know, people -that are in these motels now, -!

they need to extend their stays.

-And then there were -the Scott -!

administration was saying, well, -no, they have to show that -they are still vulnerable -!

and that that was the problem.

-So the Scott administration -set up these four shelters -kind of very quickly, -set them up around the state -and said -while folks -!

are trying to figure this out, -whether they are -in that vulnerable category, -they can stay at these other -shelters, -move out of the motels.

-But it turns out that people -weren't using these shelters -that were set up.

-!

They were basically vacant for -for the most part, -some people were using them.

-And it ended up costing -more for the state -to run these shelters -!

where people not using them than -the motel housing would have, -!

which is exactly the opposite, -I think, of what -the Scott administration -would have wanted.

-!

DCF, the Department for Children -and Families, was saying -that it was about $50,000 -a night to run -these other shelters -that were put up, -whereas the motel housing -!

program had most of these folks -stayed there.

-!

The difference would have been -about, -!

I think, more than $10,000 less.

-So this is turning out to be, -you know, unintended -consequences.

-And, you know, -there are still people -that need emergency shelter.

-Mayor Muriel -Weinberger in Burlington -!

is saying that we've got to keep -the Cherry Street location -open.

-And most people have been -going there in Burlington.

-But right now, -there's this idea of, -you know, -!

what do we do with these folks?

-Are they going to be able -to show that they are -in this vulnerable category?

-And the legislature -also recently passed -a law that extends -!

who becomes eligible for that.

-!

So they're arguing the advocates -!

for the homeless, that they're -!

they these people who are you're -moving out of the motels -and telling to go to these -shelters -should have stayed -in the motels.

-They would be eligible -under the new legislation.

-So there is a lot of crossed -wires here -and it's costing the state -more money at this point.

-!

It's not not a good situation.

-!

Yeah, this is a pretty bizarre -scenario -we're seeing where we force -people out of motel rooms -into carts to figure out -whether they can be in -the hotel rooms.

I think -we talked -!

to I talked to DCF commissioner -Chris Winters, -!

who said there's a lot of blame -to go around here.

-And I'm glad you raise -!

the point, too, in Burlington, -I was standing outside -of the Burlington -shelter on Monday night, -the same day, actually, -that the warming shelter -that Burlington ran -throughout the winter closed.

-!

And the biggest number of people -was on Monday night, people -!

migrating from the VFW shelter -to the Cherry Street shelter.

-So it's a great point -that this isn't an issue -that's going away.

-And Calvin, as Mitch said, -we are now in this space -of not only trying -to figure out the emergency -crisis today, -but how do we get ourselves -out of this scenario?

- What are we doing?

- What's what's going on?

-I mean, certainly there's -a number of housing bills -that are moving.

-You know, Representative -Theresa Wood from Waterbury -has been working on sort -of what they're calling -the general assistance -modernization, sort of -what's the next step -for the hotel motel program?

-There's about a request -!

for about $23 million this year, -!

but really what it tries to do -is, you know, -come up with a longer term -vision of what's the best way -to serve this, -you know, category, -!

this demographic of individuals -that really have a tough time -accessing permanent housing.

-So it sets up a, -!

you know, task force with people -who are have lived experience -!

and people who are homeless, but -!

also service providers, people -from the House and Senate.

-Just a real -big combination of people -to try to figure out what -what can we do?

-!

They want the emphasis to be on -community based shelters.

-But I think ultimately, -you know, -the lesson -that we've learned from this -this shuffling, -maybe I'll call it of -from hotels -to shelters back to hotels.

-!

This is a really tough program -that was never designed -to accommodate -for this many people.

-!

And, you know, be this flexible.

-!

And so what they really want to -do is make it more simple, -more accessible, -!

remove a lot of the bureaucratic -red tape -and the barriers -that people have to -!

communicating with this program, -with caseworkers, etc.. -!

I'm glad you said that, Calvin, -because I think -the other problem here -is a communication problem -I think a lot of -!

people use again, this was very -hastily set up these shelters -and a lot of people -just didn't even know -about transportation, -how to get there.

-What do I need to qualify?

-Am I supposed to go to these -shelters?

-Understandable, -!

because there's so many moving -parts here and legislation -changing and lawsuits -and what have you.

-But again, -I think there was a lot of -crossed wires -and miscommunication, -letting people know -about where they should go -and what the next steps are.

-And it is like -Calvin was saying, -this is a longer term problem -that's got to be figured out.

-Yeah.

-I'm so glad you mentioned -the communication issue, too, -because that's something -that stuck out to me, -even the communication -between lawmakers -in the Scott administration -figuring out -what's the legislative -intent of something that took -!

more than a week in this case.

-!

And it's it's pretty remarkable.

-You would you -!

would hope that they could just -!

kind of walk across the street -and hash it out.

-But it doesn't always happen -that way.

-So as this is also -this is clearly demonstrating -the need for more housing.

-But I think -it's also just a fact of -we need housing of all types -and to keep the housing -we already have in.

-And I want to come to you.

-I know there was a plea this -this week -from two Vermont cities -asking for help -in making sure that the homes -that are already available -stay that way.

-!

And I'm talking about Barre and -!

Montpelier, who are requesting -$3.5 million to help raise -some homes that are in flood.

-It's unclear -!

if this is going to go anywhere -this session, -but it's obviously a question -that's going to be coming up -!

continually as the state tries -!

to plot its way into the future.

-!

Can you talk to us a little bit -about the need here?

-Yeah, you know, -it's really interesting -to see Berry and Montpelier -working -so closely together -because that's not something -that you really saw -before the flood in July.

-!

And the two cities were affected -in a very similar way.

-!

And the city manager in Berry, -Nicholas Sterling Castro, -has really taken a leadership -role in a very specific area -of this housing conversation.

-And that is in saying -that houses in the in flood -areas can be repaired, -that it is possible -to build in these areas.

-But you just need to build -in a way -where -!

they're going to be resilient.

-!

And he points to the bus station -in Montpelier -as an example of a building -that was built -with flooding in mind -and in fact was -totally unscathed -in the July floods because -it's kind of on legs.

-And so -its systems are not affected.

-And he says that there's -a lot of ways to do that -with housing in Berry, too.

-He has actually -a really elaborate plan -for turning some of -the flooded areas into parks -that could be flooded again, -but also shoring up houses -!

that were affected by flooding -because Berry lost -!

about 60 houses to flooding in -July and they, like everybody -!

else, have a big housing crisis.

-!

The sticking point is the money, -because the governor has been -pretty clear from the start.

-In fact, from way -!

before the start, that the state -cannot afford -to spend money on stuff -like this, -that people have to find it -another way.

-And there is, -you know, a possibility -of getting federal money to -help with some of the -resilience work that Berry -!

would like to do on its houses.

-But there needs to be state -money spent on that, too.

-And so that is what -Berry and Montpelier, -a lot of advocates have been -joining together -and pushing for, -not just this week, -but in four months, saying, -you know, -!

we're not going to be forgotten.

-!

You need us to be in good shape -because this is with -the seat of government -and this is where -really important towns -and central Vermont.

-And so they're really keeping -their message out there -that we were hurt, -we have some needs.

-!

This is how we want to fix them -and we need some state help.

-And to your point about state -funding, -!

you also covered another story -this week, -a bit of an unusual one -where a group of people -were actually -coming to the state -asking to raise their -taxes.

Tell us about that.

-Yeah.

-So this started with -!

a press conference in November -where a very large coalition -of groups, including -like the Vermont -!

National Educational Education -Association, the ACLU -Alliance, and lawmaker -Emily Kornheiser, -who's the head of the House -Ways and Means Committee.

-They got together and said -that they would like to add -a 3% income tax -!

for people who are earning over -$500,000 a year.

-They also want to tax -unrealized capital gains, -although that part -kind of fell by the wayside -a little while ago.

-But the 3% surcharge -for the wealthy or for high -income earners -hasn't really gained -a lot of traction -in the legislature.

-In fact, -it looks like -it's not going to go anywhere -before the end of money bill -!

crossover, which is today.

But -it's not -going away anytime soon.

-It's it's the many people -who advocates say -!

that it would do a lot to close -the gap between the rich -and the poor in Vermont -!

and that the money could be used -for some of these programs -that right now -just don't have any funding -to help the poor.

-So recently, -a group of wealthy people, -many of them -sort of well-known like Ben -!

and Jerry from Ben and Jerry's -and David Blitzers Dorf, -!

who sold his energy company NRG.

-Alan Newman, -who started Magic Hat -!

and a bunch of other companies, -added his name to this list -and they got together -and signed a letter saying, -We want to be taxed more -!

and we think everybody should.

-Everybody who earns more -than half a million dollars -!

a year should have to pay this -3% income tax surcharge -and asked, you know, -why not just have -the wealthy donate -this money themselves or what -!

they advocates for this income -tax increase?

-It's because they think that -!

the government can actually do -a better job of assessing -what the needs are -and that philanthropy -is a little bit scattershot, -that it might not really get -!

to the heart of the structural -problems in our economy, -and they want everybody -to pay that rate.

-!

I will say that I have received -!

a barrage of emails from people -who declare -!

that they will leave the state -if they -have to pay any more taxes, -because Vermont is already -!

a state that taxes the wealthy -!

at a pretty significant level.

-I even talked -to a CEO who has always been -very active -!

in St Johnsbury but moved over -little to New Hampshire.

-He still plays in the St -!

Johnsbury Town Band, but he's, -you know, he left, -he says, because of taxes.

-And a lot of people -who called me from Florida -to tell me -!

that they were living in Florida -for six months and one day -because of Vermont taxes.

-I would say that -this is not a big deterrent.

-It's not that many people -to begin with -who earn more than $500,000 -a year in Vermont, -I think it's about 1800.

-And it's the attitude -of some of the advocates -for the taxes as well.

-Don't let the door hit -you on the way out.

-But the wealthy are saying, -well, -we actually serve on boards.

-We don't need a lot of money -to the Vermont -Community Foundation -and other philanthropies.

-So you wouldn't miss us -when we're gone.

-Yeah.

Yeah.

-And I'm -!

really glad you raised the point -about state spending, -because I want to come back -to you, Calvin.

-You mentioned at the top -that the governor kind of -came out swinging this week -and in state -!

spending was a big focus of his.

-!

And I know there's conversation -right now about -where are we going -to be coming up -for the with revenue -the wealth tax may be -one example.

-Talk to me -about what else is going on.

-Yeah.

-I mean, -I think this is really -one of the biggest issues -in the building -and certainly this year -it does feel different -!

because the COVID cash is gone.

-!

There's still really big ongoing -needs, housing, -!

opioids, you know, health care, -you name it.

-And so, as and mentioned, -Friday is crossover day -for money bills.

-And the House Ways and Means -Committee advanced a package -about $125 -million in new spending.

-And it has, you know, taxes, -including like the property -transfer tax.

-It creates a new tax bracket -for high income earners.

-!

You know, taxes, foreign income -and also the corporate -income tax as well.

-And these taxes are going -to a number of big proposals -that the legislature -has been working on -from an expansion of the -the criminal justice system -to expedite justice, -to more housing, -to also a big expansion -!

of Medicaid and doctor dinosaur.

-Really big initiatives -that lawmakers -have been working on -and say that the state -!

needs to make more investments -in because they need to meet -this moment.

-You know, Governor Phil Scott -and another Republicans -already coming out -!

criticizing this Spunt spending, -!

you know, concerned that it will -!

no matter where where you tax, -whether it be high income -earners or, -you know, lower income -Vermonters, they're concerned -just about what it will mean -for people down the line.

-So I think -!

the other part of this, too, is, -you know, -there's -all these policy initiatives -that, you know, -the Democratic supermajority -is looking to fund.

-As of right now, though, -none of these new taxes -are going toward -the $240 million -!

increase in the education fund -and the really big looming -property tax hike -that that lawmakers -are really struggling with.

-Yeah, and sticking -!

with the education for a moment, -I do want to make sure -that we point out that today -there was an announcement -!

that Vermont has a new education -secretary, -Zoe Sanders from Florida.

-What do we know about her -so far?

-Yeah.

-So this is a pretty big deal -in terms -of moving the ball forward -!

in the next steps of what should -!

our education system look like, -how do we fund it?

-Zoe Saunders is a long time -education administrator.

-She comes -from the state of Florida.

-She served in Fort Lauderdale -working in public education.

-!

She also served in Broward Count -school district in the -country, working with charter -schools as well.

-!

So she has a background of both -sort of school choice -and public education as well.

-You know, -I think she says her -big priority -!

is going to be putting students -first.

-!

But, you know, there's already -!

some folks I've talked to today -that are maybe -a little nervous or cautious, -maybe cautiously -optimistic about.

-Skeptical.

Yeah.

-!

That's maybe a better word about -!

where does she stand in school -choice here in Vermont.

-How does the CARSEN V making, -you know, decision -from the Supreme Court -come into that?

-And ultimately, -what is the government's role -and what's Aoki's role -going to be -in making sure that we have a -!

financially sustainable system?

-We are dealing with headwinds -!

of dropping student enrollment, -!

you know, infrastructure costs -for schools, -!

you know, a lot of big headwinds -facing the education system -!

and a funding formula that many, -including the governor, -!

says that it's run its course.

-Yeah, -!

and there's a lot of lawmakers -are kind of looking towards -the future of that system -and many other -And I want to come to you.

-There is one lawmaker -who's actually -looking to the past year, -and that's Representative -Ann Donahue.

-You had a really fascinating -!

story about a mission she's on.

-Can you tell us about that?

-Yeah.

-!

And Donahue is a representative -from Northfield.

-She was a Republican.

-She's a longtime -member of the House.

And -she's -!

got she's a lawyer by training.

-She's worked for many, -many years -as an advocate -for the mentally ill. -And she -!

she noticed in Hurricane Irene -I mean, Tropical Storm Irene -!

right afterward, that when the -!

state closed the state hospital -there, that -she wondered -what was going to happen -to the bodies of people -who had been buried there, -because around the 1890 -to 1910 or so, -people were buried -without really any record of -who they had been -or where they were.

-!

I mean, people who had families, -their families came -in, picked up their bodies.

-But for people who didn't, -they were just -buried on the hospital farm, -on a plot like a nice looking -area of the farm.

-And and -wanted to dignify -these people who, -!

you know, had been in state care -and were the state's -responsibility.

-So she started doing -some genealogical research -and she took a few years off -because her her full time job -as lawmaker and mental health -!

advocate was taking up her time.

-But she retired last summer -!

and she got into the genealogy -with her with a new interest.

-And she has been working -like reading over old copies -of the Burlington Free Press -from 120 years ago -to figure out who people were -when they died -!

and where they might be buried.

-And she she's asked the state -to help her -!

clean up the burial plot on the -the old Vermont State -Hospital farm.

-She introduced legislation -this year, -which is how I heard -about all this sort of -trying to get the state -historical society.

-This we have a state -archeologist -in Vermont involved -!

and they said, yes, absolutely.

-So she ended up -tabling her legislation -and now she has -enlisted the help -of this historical society.

-And the archeologist -is going to go up there -!

when the area is clear of snow.

-!

It's in Waterbury and find out -!

where these people were buried.

-!

And she said, you know, for her, -it's one thing -is that in the old days, -obviously, people weren't -treated that well.

-The people who were confined -to the state hospital, -sometimes against their will, -!

were often like unwed mothers.

-!

They were alcoholics, they were -adulterers, people like that.

-And they didn't have -a very good experience there.

-And the state -!

didn't really treat their bodies -with very much dignity -and respect.

-And she would just -she thinks that it would -it would just be a way -of honoring them -and of showing us -!

how far we've come, if we could -if the state could identify -!

where those people are and also -put up markers to tell people -!

who are, you know, in the area -who's buried there -and what their stories are in -the state -hospital farm is on it.

-It used to be a remote hill -and now it's right -next to a bike trail -and a recreation area.

-So it will -it does get some traffic.

-Fascinating.

Yeah.

-!

Thanks so much.

And and Mitch, -I want to end here with you.

-There's been a lot -of big sports news.

I think -as viewers -are watching this, we're -!

probably approaching halftime.

-!

If you're watching the broadcast -halftime with a close, - the Duke giving game.

- Tell us a little bit.

-!

Give us your your sports minute -here.

-Yeah.

I mean, don't -don't worry about the game.

-The action will happen in the -!

second half.

Keep watching us.

-I spoke with the head coach -!

for UVM, John Becker this week.

-And, you know, -folks are thinking back, -look, they're taking on Duke.

-That's a powerhouse.

-Burrell coming in -as the 13 seed.

-But he said, you know what, -we have nothing to lose.

-We're lose.

-We're companies -that our nerves came -during the championship week -!

when we had to win three games -or go home.

-Now we can let it all loose.

-!

Nobody thinks we're going to win -except for former President -Barack Obama, -!

who picked UVM to win this game.

-So we'll see if that happens.

-It would be the biggest upset -since 2005 -when UVM beat Syracuse.

-Yeah, thanks Obama for that.

-That's all -we've got for this week.

-Thanks so much to our guests -here, Mitch -Wheatley from Vermont Public, -Calvin Cutler from WQXR.

-And joining us remotely, -my colleague -and Wallace Allen from seven -days.

-It's really great -to have you all here.

-I'm Colin Flanders.

-Thanks for watching -and we'll see you next week.