CRYSTAL: HI, EVERYBODY.

I AM CRYSTAL HAYNES.

TONIGHT ON "GREATER BOSTON," WE WILL DIG INTO MAURA HEALEY'’S PICK TO TAKE OVER THE MBTA, FOR LIGHT.

-- PHILLIP ENG.

HTEN -- THEN, THE CREATOR OF KNOW YOUR HAIRITAGE AND "ZARA'’S WASH DAY" ON HER EFFORTS TO CELEBRATE KIDS OF COLOR AND THE WAY THEY WEAR THEIR HAIR.

THERE IS A SHAKEUP JUST AROUND THE CORNER FOR THE MBTA.

AFTER A MONTHS LONG SEARCH, GOVERNOR HEALEY HAS ANNOUNCED HER LEAD THE EMBATTLED SYSTEM.

PHILIP -- PHILLIP ENG IS THE INTERIM PRESIDENT OF NEW YORK CITY TRANSIT.

HE WILL OFFICIALLY TAKE OVER AS GENERAL MANAGER ON APRIL 11, WHEN HE HOPES TO ESTABLISH, QUOTE, A NEW WAY OF DOING BUSINESS.

>> IT IS CLEAR THAT THE MBTA SERVICE IS NOT AT THE LEVEL IT NEEDS TO BE AND IT HASN'’T BEEN THAT WAY FOR FAR TOO LONG.

THE STATUS QUO IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

CRYSTAL: AND WILL TAKE OVER THE T AT A PARTICULARLY TROUBLED TIME FOR THE SYSTEM, WITH SLOW DANCE STILL IN PLACE ALONG MORE THAN A QUARTER OF THE SUBWAY SYSTEM -- WITH DSLOWDOWNS STILL IN PLACE ALONG MORE THAN A QUARTER OF THE SUBWAY SYSTEM AND INCLUDING A SERIES OF DEBTS, WHICH WERE A SUBJECT OF-- DEATHS, WHICH WERE A SUBJECT OF INVESTIGATION.

HOW WELL-SUITED IS PHILLIP ENG TO TAKE ON THESE CHALLENGES AND CAN HE, OR ANYONE, REALLY TURN THE T AROUND?

JOINING ME, FORMER MASSACHUSETTS TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY JAMES ALOISI AND DOUG MOST, THE FORMER EDITOR OF THE BOSTON MAGAZINE.

ALSO, DOUG IS THE AUTHOR OF A 2014 BOOK, "THE RACE UNDERGROUND: BOSTON, NEW YORK, AND THE INCREDIBLE RIVALRY THAT BUILT AMERICA'S FIRST SUBWAY."

JAMES: IT'’S A GREAT BOOK.

DOUG: THANKS, JIM.

I STILL REMEMBER THAT REVIEW.

CRYSTAL: I WANT TO START WITH YOU, JIM.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT WALKING INTO THE T AS SOMEONE WHO MANAGED THE LONG ISLAND TRANSIT SYSTEM?

JAMES: WELL, I SAW THE PRESS CONFERENCE TODAY.

I DON'’T KNOW PHIL ENG, EXCEPT FOR WHAT I READ ABOUT HIM.

I THOUGHT TODAY'’S PRESS CONFERENCE WAS A GOOD FIRST STEP.

I THOUGHT HE HANDLED THE QUESTIONS WELL.

HIS REMARKS WERE VERY MUCH ON POINT.

I THINK THE QUESTION FOR HIM WILL QUICKLY BE WHAT MANY OF US IN THE TRANSIT ADVOCACY COMMUNITY HAVE BEEN SAYING LOUD AND CLEAR OVER THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS, IF NOT MONTHS, AND THAT IS ONE PERSON IS NOT GOING TO MAKE THE KIND OF DIFFERENCE THAT MANY PEOPLE MAY MAGICALLY EXPECT.

AND WHAT'’S NEEDED AT THE T, MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE, IN MY JUDGMENT, IS A CULTURE TURNAROUND, BUT ALSO THE RESOURCES AND THE TOOLS SO THAT PHIL ENG AND HIS TEAM CAN ACTUALLY DO THE JOB.

THOSE RESOURCES INCLUDE MORE MONEY, ESPECIALLY ON THE OPERATING BUDGET SIDE OF THE HOUSE, AND THOSE RESOURCES INCLUDE, FOR HIM, I HOPE, A NEW BOARD THAT THE GOVERNOR WILL APPOINT THAT WILL BE ACTIVE AND EXPERIENCED AND SUPPORTIVE OF HIS EFFORTS.

CRYSTAL: WELL, HERE'’S THE OTHER QUESTION, TOO, DOUG.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IN YOUR RESEARCH AND EXPERIENCE THE DIFFERENCES OF THESE TRAIN SYSTEMS ARE, AND WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENCES AND HOW DO YOU MANAGE THEM?

THE MBTA IS ONE OF THE OLDEST TRANSPORTATION SYSTEMS IN THE COUNTRY.

YOU HAVE THE ABOVE TROLLEY SYSTEM, THE UNDERGROUND SUBWAY.

THE BUSES AND THE EXTENSIONS OF THAT.

IN THE LONG ISLAND TRANSIT SYSTEM, NOT AS COMPLICATED.

DOUG: YEAH.

TO TRY TO COMPARE BOSTON'’S T WITH THE LIRR IS ALMOST LIKE A FALSE COMPARISON.

IT DOESN'’T WORK.

THEY ARE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BEASTS.

AND I THINK PHIL ENG PROBABLY KNOWS THAT.

HE'’S NOT GOING TO TRY TO DO THINGS HERE THAT WOULD WORK ON THE LONG ISLAND SYSTEM, BECAUSE I THINK THEY ARE JUST TWO DIFFERENT SYSTEMS.

HAVING SAID THAT, I THINK THERE ARE COUPLE THINGS THAT HE'’S GOING TO ENCOUNTER HERE THAT HE IS PROBABLY FAMILIAR WITH.

BOTH CITIES HAVE A LONG HISTORY DEALING WITH THE CHALLENGES OF POLITICS AND FINANCES AND MONEY TO TRY TO GET TRANSIT PROJECTS DONE.

IT'’S ONE OF THE BIGGEST HURDLES THAT BIG CITIES FACE.

WE TALK A BIG GAME AND WE SAY THAT WE WANT TO IMPROVE TRANSIT, BUT WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, GETTING REAL MONEY APPROVED, BIG MONEY, TRANSFORMATIONAL CHANGE, IT'’S HARD.

I THINK, BOSTON, OVER THE YEARS, HAS PROBABLY GONE THROUGH SEVERAL BOXES OF BAND-AIDS, TRYING TO FIX ITS SYSTEM.

THOSE BAND-AIDS STICK FOR A WHILE AND THEN, LIKE ANY BAND-AID, EVENTUALLY, IT FALLS OFF AND A NEW WOUND APPEARS.

I THINK HE'’S GOING TO ENCOUNTER SOME OF THOSE CHALLENGES HERE.

AS JIM SAID, THIS JUST COMES DOWN TO A SYSTEM THAT NEEDS MONEY, NEEDS INVESTMENT.

THAT'’S THE ONLY WAY YOU'’RE GOING TO GET REAL REVOLUTIONARY, TRANSFORMATIVE CHANGE.

HE WILL BE ABLE TO FIND WAYS TO IMPROVE SOME ALERTS AND MAYBE MAKE SOME CARS BETTER, MAYBE MAKE A FEW TRACKS BETTER HERE AND THERE.

THAT WILL HAPPEN.

BUT BOSTONIANS ARE HUNGRY FOR BIGGER CHANGES THAN JUST THAT, AND THAT'’S GOING TO REQUIRE REAL INVESTMENT.

CRYSTAL: YOU MENTIONED MONEY.

THAT'’S A HARD PILL TO SWALLOW FOR A LARGE -- A LOT OF TAXPAYERS.

IT SEEMS LIKE THE T HAS HAD TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS POURED INTO IT, AND WE ARE STILL SEEING DEATHS, SERVICE DELAYS, SERVICE INTERRUPTIONS, SHORTAGES ON EVERY LEVEL.

JIM, HOW CAN WE ASK FOLKS TO PAY MORE MONEY, TO HAVE MORE MONEY POURED INTO THIS, SO THAT IT SEEMS LIKE PHILLIP ENG IS GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL?

JAMES: I DON'’T THINK WE NEED TO ASK ANYBODY TO PAY MORE MONEY IN ORDER TO HELP THE T GET MORE MONEY, AND LET ME EXPLAIN WHY.

I WANT TO SAY QUICKLY, THERE ARE TWO BUDGETS WE NEED TO ALWAYS BE MINDFUL OF, THE OPERATING BUDGET WHICH IS WHAT YOU USED TO PAY PEOPLE'’S SALARIES WITH AND THE CAPITAL BUDGET, WHICH YOU USED TO BUILD STUFF WITH.

THE OPERATING BUDGET, THE T HAS ALREADY SAID, IS GOING TO HIT A MASSIVE, SIGNIFICANT SHORTFALL NEXT YEAR.

WHY?

BECAUSE RIDERSHIP IS DOWN.

ABOUT 1/3 OF THE OPERATING BUDGET COMES FROM FAIR REVENUE -- FARE REVENUE.

WE HAVE RIDERSHIP AT AN ANEMIC LEVEL FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE STOPPED USING IT BECAUSE THE SERVICE IS SO LOUSY.

WE NEED A LEGISLATURE TO STEP UP AND TAKE ACTION THIS YEAR, TO SOLVE THAT OPERATING BUDGET CRISIS NOW.

THEY COULD DO TWO THINGS THAT WON'’T CAUSED THE TAXPAYER -- COST THE TAXPAYER OR THE FARE PAYER A NICKEL.

TAKE THE COST OF PARATRANSIT OFF THE BACK OF THE T AND SHIFT IT TO THE COMMONWEALTH.

THE COMMONWEALTH HAS THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THAT.

WE SHOULD BE DOING THAT FOREVER REGIONAL TRANSIT AUTHORITY IN THE COMMONWEALTH.

THAT SAVES THE T $140 MILLION EVERY YEAR, AND YOU DON'’T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING BUT SHIFT THE COST.

THE SECOND THING THEY COULD DO IS SHIFT A GOOD PORTION OF THE T'’S DEBT SERVICE TO THE COMMONWEALTH.

IF YOU TOOK THOSE ACTIONS, IT WOULD HELP TO SOLVE THE OPERATING BUDGET CRISIS.

IT WOULD AVERT IT.

AND YOU WOULDN'’T RAISE ANYBODY'’S TAXES OR FEES.

ON THE CAPITAL SIDE, THAT'’S TYPICALLY MONEY THAT IS BORROWED IN THE BOND MARKET, AND THAT NEEDS TO BE STEPPED UP AS WELL.

HERE'’S THE THING WE ALL NEED TO REMEMBER.

PHIL ENG SAID TODAY HE WANTS TO ACCELERATE STATE OF GOOD REPAIR WORK, TO HIS CREDIT.

HE ALSO SAID SOMETHING I TOOK AS A RED FLAG, WHICH IS I WILL WORK WITH THE RESOURCES I HAVE.

LET ME JUST SAY LOUD AND CLEAR TO HIM, TO THE GOVERNOR, TO THE LEGISLATURE, IF HE ONLY HAS THE RESOURCES THAT HE HAS TODAY, HE WILL FAIL, BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ENOUGH.

HE NEEDS THE RESOURCES AND A REVISED COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AGREEMENT AND FROM THE LEGISLATURE WILL NET NEW REVENUE, IN ORDER TO HIRE THE PROFESSIONALS WHO CAN THEN DO THE PROJECT MANAGEMENT, THE CONSTRUCTION MANAGEMENT, AND GET THE WORK DONE.

THOSE ARE THE HARSH REALITIES.

I'’M SURE HE KNOWS THAT.

HE IS A PROFESSIONAL.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS TO FOCUS ON WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE IN A CANDID WAY, AND WE NEED TO ASK THE GOVERNOR AND THE LEGISLATURE TO TAKE ACTION.

PHIL ENG WON'’T BE ABLE TO DO IT ON HIS OWN.

CRYSTAL: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT, DOUG?

DOUG: IT SOUNDS LIKE HE IS SAYING WHAT FOLKS WANT TO HEAR FROM HIM.

"I WILL WORK WITH THE BUDGET YOU GIVE ME."

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT'’S NOT FEASIBLE AT THIS POINT.

DOUG: FIRST OF ALL, I'’M GLAD, JIM, YOU REFERENCED A NICKEL.

THAT'’S WHAT THE VERY FIRST FARE WAS ON BOSTON'’S SUBWAY.

I THINK IT'’S IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER THIS SYSTEM, AND THIS IS SOMETHING FOR HARD -- SOMETHING THAT IS HARD FOR BOSTONIANS TO HEAR, THE SYSTEM WAS ESSENTIALLY BORN BROKEN WHEN IT FIRST OPENED.

IT WAS DESIGNED IN A WAY FOR NOWHERE NEAR THE CAPACITY THAT WE SEE TODAY, AND IT WAS DESIGNED WITH TUNNELS THAT ARE REALLY NARROW, THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO MAINTAIN, IN TERMS OF HAVING THEM HANDLE CARS AND TRAINS OF THE SIZE THAT WE WISH THEY COULD HANDLE.

THE CARS GO THROUGH THESE TUNNELS, WHICH HAVE A LOT OF SHARP TURNS, A LOT OF NARROW SPOTS, AND THEY CAN'’T ACCELERATE.

THEY HAVE TO GO SLOW THROUGH THESE PLACES.

WHEN YOU RIDE ON OTHER CITIES'’ SUBWAYS I WAS JUST, NDC RECENTLY -- IN D.C.

RECENTLY.

I'’VE BEEN ON THE NEW YORK SUBWAY MANY TIMES.

THOSE SYSTEMS ARE DESIGNED DIFFERENTLY.

THE TRAINS GO STRAIGHT LINES FOR A LONG TIME.

THE TURNS ARE NOT NEARLY AS SHARP AS IN BOSTON.

THERE ARE VERY FEW PLACES IN THOSE CITIES WHERE YOU HAVE TURNS LIKE WE SEE DOWN IN BOYLSTON STREET OR PARK STREET OR WHATEVER, WHERE THEY MAKE THESE SHARP TURNS.

THE TRAINS HAVE TO GO SLOW THROUGH THERE.

THEY JUST DO.

THE TUNNELS ARE DESIGNED IN A WAY WHERE WE CAN'’T HAVE LONG TRAINS.

WE HAVE THESE SHORTER TRAINS, ESPECIALLY WITH THE GREEN LINE, THAT MAKE IT CHALLENGING FOR PEOPLE.

WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE SYSTEM WE GOT, WE MAY NOT LIKE, BUT IT'’S THE SYSTEM THAT WAS DESIGNED AND BUILT FOR US BACK IN 1897.

SHORT OF DIGGING NEW TUNNELS, WHICH SEEMS PRETTY UNLIKELY, GIVEN THE COST AND SCALE OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT, THIS IS THE SYSTEM WE'’VE GOT AND WE NEED TO WORK WITH IT.

THAT DOESN'’T MEAN THERE CAN'’T BE IMPROVEMENTS AND CHANGES MADE.

BUT MASSIVE CHANGE THAT'’S GOING TO CHANGE THE GREEN LINE AND TRANSFORM -- IN A TRANSFORMATIVE WAY IS REALLY HARD.

IT'’S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH.

THIS IS BOSTON, FOR BETTER OR FOR WORSE.

THIS IS THE SYSTEM WE HAVE.

CRYSTAL: GOVERNOR HEALEY HAS BEEN SPEAKING ALONG -- A LONG TIME, AT LEAST PART OF HER INITIAL PITCH FOR ALL OF THIS, IN TERMS OF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION IN THIS STATE, IS GOING GREENER, GOING ELECTRIC, SWITCHING OUT THE CARS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

HOW CAN WE DO THAT WITHOUT THE CAPITAL SPENDING THAT -- I DON'’T KNOW THAT THE STATE IS POISED TO DO.

JAMES: THIS IS A GOOD QUESTION.

HERE'’S ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS THAT GENERAL MANAGER ENG IS GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH, AND IT'’S URGENT, AND IT'’S HAPPENING IN REAL TIME.

THE MBTA PUT OUT FOR COMMENT, PUBLIC COMMENT, ITS FIVE-YEAR P LAN FOR CAPITAL INVESTMENT.

THERE WILL BE PUBLIC HEARINGS IN APRIL.

IT INCLUDES NOT ONE PENNY, NOT ONE PENNY FOR ELECTRIC REPLACEMENT OF THE DIRTY DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES THAT WE STILL HAVE RUNNING OUR COMMUTER RAIL SYSTEM, TO REPLACE THEM WITH ELECTRIC MULTIPLE UNITS.

EVEN THOUGH THE PLAN FOR REGIONAL RAIL ELECTRIFICATION HAS BEEN APPROVED BY THE FORMER MBTA BOARD.

NOT A PENNY IN THIS FIVE-YEAR PLAN.

THAT MEANS OUR CURRENT INEFFICIENT DIESEL FLEET WILL CONTINUE TO EMIT BLACK CARBON SUIT WHEREVER IT TRAVELS -- SOOT WHEREVER IT TRAVELS.

THAT'’S A MISTAKE, AND I HOPE PHIL ENG CAN CORRECT IT.

IT'’S AGAINST WHAT THE GOVERNOR HERSELF HAS PLEDGED TO DO, WHICH IS TO MAKE TRANSPORTATION PART OF HER OVERALL CLIMATE APPROACH, TO REDUCE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS.

THERE ARE OTHER DEFICIENCIES IN THAT DOCUMENT, INCLUDING THIS NO NEW MONEY TO CONNECT THE RED AND THE BLUE LINES.

AND AS YOU MAY KNOW, ANYONE WALKING DOWN CAMBRIDGE STREET CAN SEE, THEY ARE BUILDING A NEW FACILITY ON CAMBRIDGE STREET.

THERE HAS BEEN HOPE AND EXPECTATION THAT THE NEW CONNECTION WITH THE RED AND BLUE WOULD ALSO SERVE THAT VITAL PUBLIC HEALTH CENTER.

WE'’RE NOWHERE NEAR MAKING THAT HAPPEN UNDER THE CURRENT MBTA PLAN.

MY LAST WORD ON THIS POINT, CRYSTAL, IS WE HAVE TO FIX THE T, BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO FORWA RD-PROOF THE T. FIXING THE T IS IMPORTANT, BUT FORWARD PROVING IT WITH INITIATIVES LIKE RED-BLUE CONNECTOR ARE EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

CRYSTAL: YOU ARE ONE OF THE EXPERTS ON THE HISTORY OF THE T AND OTHER SUBWAY SYSTEMS.

AS WE TALK ABOUT FORWARD PROVING THE T, IT SOUNDS LIKE A BIG JOB FOR MR. ENG.

DOUG: EVERYTHING JIM SAID, I AGREE WITH, OBVIOUSLY.

I THINK THAT IT'’S A CHALLENGE TO SORT OF FIX WHAT YOU HAVE AND, AT THE SAME TIME, FORWARD THINK.

THAT'’S GOING TO BE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE FOR ANY ADMINISTRATION, TO TRY TO DO BOTH AT THE SAME TIME.

CERTAINLY, THE TEA IS BROKEN RIGHT NOW.

NO ONE IS GOING TO ARGUE THAT.

I THINK THAT'’S GOING TO HAVE TO BE FILLED -- PHIL ENG'’S FIRST JOB, TO FIX, AS MUCH AS HE CAN, THE THINGS THAT PASSENGERS ARE REALLY FRUSTRATED WITH, THE SPEED OF THE TRAIN, THE TIMELINESS OF THE TRAINS.

JUST MAKING THE SYSTEM WORK ON A DAILY BASIS SO THAT PEOPLE CAN GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B.

THAT WAS THE REASON THE TEA WAS INVENTED IN THE FIRST PLACE -- THE T WAS INVENTED IN THE FIRST PLACE, TO GET YOU FROM POINT A TO POINT B IN A FASTER, MORE CONVENIENT, TIMELY MANNER.

THERE ARE GREAT PICTURES OF THE BOSTON SUBWAY IN THE LATE 1890'’S, BEFORE THE SUBWAY OPENED.

THEY HAVE PEOPLE WALKING FASTER THAN THE T COULD MOVE BECAUSE IT WAS SO CROWDED ON THE STREETS.

THAT'’S WHY THE T WAS NEEDED TO MOVE UNDERGROUND, BECAUSE IT WAS SO CONGESTED ON THE STREETS.

IT'’S SORT OF IRONIC, HERE WE ARE, MORE THAN 100 YEARS LATER, SOME PEOPLE ARGUE WE CAN WALK FASTER THAN THE T AGAIN.

IT'’S AT THAT POINT AGAIN.

DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE T IS NOW ON THE UNDERGROUND, NOT THE SURFACE.

CRYSTAL: JIM AND DOUG, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

JAMES: IT'’S BEEN A PLEASURE.

CRYSTAL: NEXT, DO YOU KNOW YOUR HAIRITAGE?

H-A-I-R-ITAGE.

THE QUEST TO FIND AND HONOR HER OWN LED ZENDRA WALKER TO CREATE KNOW YOUR HAIRITAGE.

SHARING WHAT SHE LEARNED WITH HER DAUGHTER INSPIRED HER TO WRITE THE CHILDREN'’S BOOK, "ZARA'’S WASH DAY."

NEXT WEEK, ZENDRA WILL STOP BY A COUPLE PUBLIC SCHOOLS TO READ THE BOOK TO STUDENTS.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

CRYSTAL: I FEEL LIKE THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT TOPIC, NOT JUST FOR GIRLS, BUT FOR BOYS OF COLOR, WHO MAY NOT HAVE THE LANGUAGE OR THE FOUNDATION TO UNDERSTAND HOW SPECIAL THEY ARE HERE IS -- THEIR HAIR IS.

ZENDA: ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'’S BEEN SO CLOSE TO MY HEART FOR MANY YEARS IS THIS TOPIC OF OUR HAIR, BUILDING OUR SELF-CONFIDENCE THROUGH OUR HAIRITAGE.

CRYSTAL: TALK TO ME ABOUT SOME OF THESE EXPERIENCES THAT LED YOU TO WANT TO WRITE A BOOK.

DOUG: -- ZENDA: AS A YOUNG GIRL, I WASN'’T ALWAYS VERY CONFIDENT ABOUT MY HAIR TEXTURE.

EVEN THOUGH MY PARENTS WERE VERY AFFIRMING AT HOME AND REALLY SHOWED US HOW PRIDEFUL WE COULD BE IN OUR JAMAICAN HERITAGE AND OUR HAIR CUSTOMS AND TRADITIONS, THERE WERE A LOT OF MESSAGES IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD THAT TOLD ME SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT, THAT MY HAIR WASN'’T BEAUTIFUL, THAT MY SKIN TONE, MY HAIR TEXTURE WASN'’T AS DESIRABLE IN THE WORLD AND WASN'’T SEEN AS BEAUTIFUL.

SO, I DID GROW UP WITH SOME OF THAT PUSH AND PULL.

HOW CAN I BE CONFIDENT ABOUT WHO I AM?

WHEN MY DAUGHTER, WHO IS NOW NINE, STARTED ASKING THOSE QUESTIONS ABOUT HER HAIR, "MOMMY, WHY IS MY HAIR OILY?

WHY DO YOU BRAID MY HAIR?

WHY ARE YOU PUTTING THESE ORNAMENTS IN MY HAIR?"

I KNEW I COULD GO DEEPER WITH HER AND HELP HER UNDERSTAND NOT JUST HOW WE CREATE THESE BEAUTIFUL AESTHETICS, BUT ALSO WHY.

THE WHY BEHIND ALL THESE CULTURAL HAIRSTYLES AND HOW IT LINKS TO OUR AFRICAN HISTORY.

CRYSTAL: I ALSO THINK ABOUT THAT CONNECTION.

I REMEMBER MY MOM SITTING ME DOWN IN THE MORNING, DOING MY HAIR, GREASING MY SCALP, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

THINKING ABOUT THAT WAS A MOMENT OF PEACE FOR US.

YOU SLOWED DOWN.

YOU FOCUSED ON THE TASK.

IT WAS A MOMENT OF CONNECTION.

I THINK THAT, ESPECIALLY IN BLACK AND OTHER BIPOC COMMUNITIES, IT'’S SUCH A SPECIAL THING TO EXPERIENCE THAT DOESN'’T GET TALKED ABOUT ENOUGH.

ZENDA: ABSOLUTELY.

IT'’S PART OF OUR HISTORY.

THE HAIRSTYLISTS IN PRECOLONIAL AFRICAN TRIBES AND IN DIFFERENT AREAS AND REGIONS IN AFRICA WERE SOME OF THE MOST REVERED PEOPLE, BECAUSE THE HAIRSTYLIST WAS SO CLOSE TO THE HAIR.

YOU HAD TO REALLY TRUST AND BE ABLE TO REALLY FULLY TRUST THAT PERSON WITH WHAT WE CONSIDERED WAS THE CLOSEST THING TO GOD, RIGHT.

SO, IT'’S A TRADITION WHERE, BECAUSE WE HAVE TEXTURED HAIR, CURLY, WAVY HAIR, THE TIME IT TAKES TO CREATE SOME OF THESE TRADITIONAL STYLES, IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT LONGER, SO YOU HAVE MUCH MORE TIME WITH YOUR LOVED ONE OR WHOEVER IS ATTENDING TO YOUR HAIR, TO REALLY BUILD CONNECTIONS, TO LEARN, TO REALLY FEEL THAT LEVEL OF SUPPORT AND COMFORT.

SITTING IN BETWEEN MY MOTHER'’S KENES -- KNEES, HAVING HER GREASE THE SCALP, THESE ARE THINGS THAT MANY PEOPLE OF AFRICAN DESCENT CAN RELATE TO AND FEEL NOSTALGIC ABOUT.

IT WASN'’T ALWAYS PLEASANT FOR SOME.

BECAUSE WITH TEXTURED HAIR, THE TINGLING -- DETANGLING PROCESS CAN SOMETIMES BE HARD, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU HAVE SENSITIVE SCALP, LIKE MY DAUGHTER.

CRYSTAL: YOU BE TENDER HEADED, LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER WOULD SAY.

ZENDA: EXACTLY.

AS ALWAYS -- THIS IS ALSO A WAY FOR ME TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE ON WHAT WASH DAY CAN BE.

IT CAN BE SOMETIMES FRUSTRATING, WHERE WE ARE WASH -- RUSHING TO DO ALL THESE THINGS IN THE WORLD, AND SOMETIMES IT IS SO TIME-CONSUMING AND WE GET FRUSTRATED WITH THE DETANGLING PROCESS.

SOMETIMES, IT'’S DIFFICULT.

SOMETIMES IT'’S NOT FUN.

BECAUSE OF THAT.

BUT HERE'’S WHERE WE CAN START TO CHANGE THE LANGUAGE AND REALLY TALK ABOUT HOW SPECIAL OUR HAIR IS AND WHY IT'’S ACTUALLY CURLY.

IT IS DESIGNED TO PROTECT US FROM THE HEAT.

IT ABSORBS THE SUNLIGHT SO THAT OUR DNA CAN BE PROTECTED.

ALL THESE MAGICAL THINGS.

WE HEAR THESE TERMS, BLACK GIRL MAGIC, BLACK BOY JOY, THESE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE REALLY TANGIBLE TO NOW TALK ABOUT AND ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATE WHEN WE SAY MAGIC.

CRYSTAL: I ALSO LOVE THE IDEA OF YOUR BOOK ALONGSIDE ANY OTHER HYGIENE BOOK THAT'’S OUT THERE FOR KIDS AND NORMALIZING THAT WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WASHDAY.

"ZARA'’S WASH DAY," TALKING ABOUT BRUSHING OUR TEETH, TALKING ABOUT GETTING READY FOR SCHOOL, AND HOW IT NORMALIZES THAT CONVERSATION AMONG ALL KIDS,S O THEN -- SO THEN IT'’S NOT A SITUATION WHERE A KID WITH TEXTURED HAIR WALKS INTO A SPACE THAT IS NOT AS DIVERSE AND GETS ASKED QUESTIONS THEY DON'’T KNOW HOW TO ANSWER.

WHEN THE CONVERSATION IS NORMALIZED, WHEN IT BECOMES A NORMAL THING FOR A KID LIKE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, FIVE, OH, YEAH, SHE MUST HAVE TO WASH HER HAIR ON SUNDAY, JUST LIKE I HAVE TO GET SHOTS AT THE DOCTOR.

I LOVE THAT FOR KIDS.

ZENDA: EXACTLY.

ALL OF US HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH WATCHING OUR HAIR.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAN CONNECT ALL OF THE DIFFERENT NATIONALITIES AND ETHNIC GROUPS.

WE ALL HAVE THIS HAIRITAGE WE CAN SPEAK TO.

I THINK IT CAN CONNECT US, BUT IT CAN ALSO DISPEL MYTHS ABOUT WHY YOU SHOULDN'’T TOUCH OUR HAIR OR WHY WE DON'’T HAVE TO WASH OUR HAIR EVERY DAY EVEN, AND IT'’S STILL HYGIENIC.

AND WE CAN REALLY APPRECIATE DIFFERENT PRACTICES AMONG ALL THE DIFFERENT ETHNIC GROUPS, AND REALLY JUST COME TO A BETTER UNDERSTANDING AND LIVE MORE HARMONIOUSLY IN THIS WORLD.

CRYSTAL: I IMAGINE YOU HAVE READ YOUR BOOK TO OTHER GROUPS, DIFFERENT GROUPS.

I KNOW YOU ARE COMING TO BOSTON PRETTY SOON.

WHAT HAS BEEN THE REACTION WHEN YOU READ IT TO GROUPS OF KIDS?

ZENDA: IT'’S BEEN SO OVERWHELMING.

WHEN I HIT THAT PUBLISH BUTTON AND SAW THE REACTION, I GOT HUNDREDS AND STILL DO -- HUNDREDS OF PICTURES FROM PARENTS, GUARDIANS, FROM CHILDREN ALL OVER THE WORLD, HOLDING UP MY BOOK AND SMILING AND SAYING HOW MUCH THE BOOK HAS CHANGED THEIR LIVES.

AND EVEN THE ADULTS ARE LEARNING FROM THE STORY AND HOW MUCH HISTORY IS BEHIND OUR HAIR.

SO, IT REALLY HAS BEEN RECEIVED WITH THE INTENTION I PUT FORWARD, WHICH IS THIS LOVE LETTER, REALLY, TO COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH WHAT'’S BEEN GOING ON IN THE NEWS, EVERYDAY LIFE, EVEN EXPERIENCES WITH DISCRIMINATION.

IT HELPS TO REALLY BUILD THAT CONFIDENCE THAT CHILDREN NEED, ESPECIALLY DURING DEVELOPMENTAL STAGES OF THEIR LIVES.

SO THAT THEY CAN APPROACH THE WORLD DIFFERENTLY, DEAL WITH CONFLICT DIFFERENTLY, BUT ALSO JUST KNOW THAT, WITHIN THEMSELVES, THEY CARRY AN AMAZING, COLORFUL, RICH HISTORY THAT THEY CAN BE PROUD OF.

CRYSTAL: I'’M ALWAYS CURIOUS, TOO, BECAUSE I KNOW THE WORLD OF CHILDREN'’S BOOKS IS SO SPECIFIC.

LANGUAGE IS SPECIFICALLY CHOSEN.

THE PICTURES ARE SPECIFICALLY CHOSEN TO CONNECT TO A CERTAIN AUDIENCE.

WHAT WAS THAT PROCESS LIKE FOR YOU?

ZENDA: IT WAS REALLY, REALLY INTERESTING.

I GET SO MANY MIXED REVIEWS IN GENERAL ABOUT, IS THIS MAIN CHARACTER, THE MOTHER, IS THIS YOU AND ZARA.

IT IS INSPIRED BY US, BUT THE CHARACTERS DON'’T NECESSARILY LOOK LIKE US.

I WAS VERY INTENTIONAL AND SPECIFIC ABOUT WANTING TO SHOW A CHARACTER WITH DEEPLY MYELINATED SKIN, A CHARACTER THAT YOU COULD HONOR THE TEXTURE OF HER HAIR.

I REALLY WANTED TO SPEAK TO AND WWANTED THIS TO RESONATE WITH THE REALITY OF WHAT GOES ON IN COMMUNITIES OF AFRICAN DESCENT, WHICH IS REALLY SHOWING THE BEAUTY OF THE BRAIDS, SHOWING THE ORNAMENTS, BUT ALSO SHOWING THE BEAUTY IN OUR SKINTONE AS WELL.

I WANTED IT TO BE EXPLICITLY CLEAR THAT THIS IS A CHARACTER OF AFRICAN DESCENT, BUT JUST BECAUSE IT'’S A CHARACTER OF AFRICAN DESCENT DOESN'’T MEAN THAT OTHER PEOPLE CAN'’T READ IT AND RELATE TO THE STORY AND THAT ARE NOT CONNECTED TO PEOPLE IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY, THAT THEY CAN ALSO SHARE THE BOOK WITH AND HAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THE TOPIC.

SO, I WAS VERY INTENTIONAL ABOUT THAT, AND I'’M REALLY PROUD THAT I COULD PUT IT OUT THERE IN THE WORLD AND HAVE SO MANY PEOPLE CONNECT TO THE MESSAGE.

CRYSTAL: I KNOW, AS A MOTHER OF A 20 MONTH OLD SON WITH EARLY HAIR -- CURLY AHAIR, I KNOW READING THESE BOOKS AND HAVING THAT SENSE OF CONNECTION -- ALSO IN FAMILIES WHERE THERE MIGHT BE MIXED ETHNICITY.

MY SON IS BIRACIAL.

BEING ABLE TO USE THAT TO EXPLAIN HIS WHITE RELATIVES -- EXPLAINED TO HIS WHITE RELATIVES IS SUPER IMPORTANT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

THE BOOK IS "ZARA'’S WASH DAY."

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

COME BACK TOMORROW.

WE WILL HEAR FROM THE AUTHOR OF "GHOSTS OF THE ORPHANAGE."

THE TRUE STORY.

PLUS, AHEAD OF ITS PREMIER HERE IN BOSTON, WE WILL HEAR FROM THE PLAYWRIGHT AND ONE OF THE STARS OF "K-I-S-S-I-N-G." THANKS SO MUCH FOR WATCHING.

GOOD NIGHT.

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