GAUTAM: TONIGHT ON GREATER BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS REPORTING MORE CASES OF WHITES PREMISED ITS PROPAGANDA THAN ALMOST ANY OTHER -- WHITE SUPREMACIST PROPAGANDA ALMOST ANY OTHER STATE.

HOW DID WE GET HERE AND WHAT WE DO ABOUT IT?

AND CALLIE CROSSLEY JOINS ME ON THE MOMENTUM THAT IS FINALLY GIVING NCAA WOMEN THERE DUE.

, AND A FIGHT FOR ACCEPTANCE IN A STORY FORM THE STAGE.

ANTISEMITIC MESSAGES HUNG OVER OVERPASSES, PASSED OUT AS PLAYERS AND GRAFFITI ON WALLS AROUND THE STATE AND THIS IS JUST SOME OF THE CASES OF WHITES PREMISED PROPAGANDA REPORTED IN MASSACHUSETTS LAST YEAR, ALMOST MORE THAN ANY OTHER STATE.

THAT IS ACCORDING TO NEW REPORT FROM THE ANTIDEFAMATION LEAGUE PUBLISHED THIS WEEK THAT ALSO FOUND WHITES OF PREMISES PROPAGANDA AT A RECORD HIGH ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

PHILIP MARTIN HAS BEEN COVERING THESE TRENDS AND HE JOINS ME TO DISCUSS ALONG WITH GREGORY FRIED , HE SPECIALIZES ON THE RISE OF ETHNIC NATIONALISM.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

HOW BAD IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?

PHILLIP: THIS IS A RECORD YEAR AND THE ANTIDEFAMATION LEAGUE PUTS REPORTS OUT EVERY YEAR ON EXTREMISM AND THEY’VE BEEN DOING THIS SINCE 2017 AND THIS IS A RECORD YEAR WITH OVER 7500 ACTS OF WHITES PREMISES PROPAGANDA BEING DISTRIBUTED AROUND THE COUNTRY.

MASSACHUSETTS, THE NUMBER OF INCIDENTS HAS DECREASED SOMEWHAT FROM LAST YEAR, BUT IT IS STILL VERY HIGH, MAKING MASSACHUSETTS THE FIFTH LARGEST -- I SHOULD SAY THE FIFTH STATE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE YOU FIND WHITE SUPREMACIST PROPAGANDA IN HEAVILY PROMULGATED.

AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS DISCUSSION YOU TALKED ABOUT OVERPASSES, WE’VE SEEN A LOT OF THAT FROM GROUPS LIKE THE PATRIOT FRONT.

AND WHAT IS CALLED THE NATIONAL SOCIAL CLUB, 131.

WE ARE SING PROPAGANDA DISTRIBUTED -- SEEING A PROPAGANDA DISTRIBUTED BY A PRISON GANG.

GAUTAM: 2018 THROUGH 2023 WE ARE SING INCIDENTS INCREASING ALL THE WAY UP TO 7546, INCREDIBLE.

IN MASSACHUSETTS IT IS WORSE.

FROM 11 INCIDENTS IN 2017 UP TO 339 IN 2023, A 3000% INCREASE.

DO WE HAVE A SENSE WHAT IS CAUSING THIS EXTRAORDINARY SURGE?

GREGORY: I THINK SOME OF IT IS POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM ON THE PART OF THE GROUPS THAT SINCE THEY HAVE A HISTORICAL -- SENSE THEY HAVE A HISTORICAL MOMENT TO MAKE THEIR MARK.

IT MAY BE BECAUSE MASSACHUSETTS AND THE GREATER BOSTON AREA IS A CENTER OF EDUCATION AND THEY ARE HOPING TO RECRUIT AMONG THE YOUNGER GENERATION.

AND IT MAY ALSO BE BECAUSE THEY SENSE THERE IS SOME KIND OF POLITICAL DRIFT IN THE AMERICAN NORTHEAST AMONG WHITE WORKING-CLASS FROM THE ONCE PROUD AND STRONG DEMOCRATIC ALLIANCE BETWEEN VARIOUS GROUPS TO DISAFFECTION WITH AMERICAN POLITICAL PARTIES NOW.

GAUTAM: IT IS EASY TO ASCRIBE ALL THINGS TO TRUMP, BUT IS THIS THE TRUMP EFFECT WHERE HE HAS TAKEN DOWN THE NORMS?

GREGORY: I DON’T THINK IT IS A COORDINATED EFFORT.

GAUTAM: I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT.

GREGORY: I THINK TRUMP HAS GIVEN PERMISSION TO PEOPLE TO BE RECEPTIVE AND TO MAKE SUCH KIND OF PROPAGANDISTIC OVERTURES.

I THINK THE BIGGER PROBLEM IS NOT THESE VERY FRINGE GROUPS BUT THE IMPORTATION OF SOME OF THEIR IDEAS INTO MAINSTREAM DISCOURSE.

IN RIGHT WING MEDIA AND BY DONALD TRUMP AND THOSE WHO FOLLOW HIM THEMSELVES.

IT’S ONE THING FOR THE NATIONAL SOCIAL CLUB OR THE PATRIOT FRONT TO BEHAVE IN THIS WAY.

IT’S ANOTHER THING FOR TUCKER CARLSON TO ADOPT THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY, WHICH IS IN ITS ORIGINS, A FASCIST, WHITE SUPREMACIST THEORY OF WHAT IS GOING ON IN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES.

AND WE SAW AT THE MARCH IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, WHERE THEY WERE CHANTING "JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US," THAT WAS A VERSION OF THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.

HAVING THAT BECOME MAINSTREAM IN AMERICAN POLITICAL DISCOURSE, THAT’S WHAT IS TRULY DISTURBING.

FOR ME, THESE OUTLIER GROUPS ARE KIND OF THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE.

AND NOT DIRECTLY WHAT WE SHOULD BE MOST WORRIED ABOUT BECAUSE THEY DON’T HAVE A SERIOUS POLITICAL PRESENCE OF THEIR OWN.

IT’S REALLY THE MAGA MOVEMENT WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED WITH, AS IMPORTING THOSE IDEAS IN A RESPECTABLE FORM.

PHILLIP: I THINK THAT’S RIGHT.

OPPORTUNISM AS A TERM IS APPROPRIATE.

IT’S NO COINCIDENCE THAT MAGA OPERATIVES, INDIVIDUALS, THE MOVEMENT ITSELF HAVE TARGETED TRANS AND GAY PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE.

YOU SEE THE PATRIOT FRONT AND OTHERS SEEING THAT AS AN OPPORTUNITY AND THEY PICK IT OR DISTRIBUTE LITERATURE AGAINST GAY AND TRANS PEOPLE, SHOW UP FOR EVENTS WHERE GAY AND TRANS PEOPLE ARE PRESENT.

IT’S NO COINCIDENCE ALSO THEY HAVE LATCHED ONTO THE DET -- DEI ISSUE, IT HAS BECOME FOR MUCH OF THE REPUBLICAN A SURROGATE ISSUE FOR RACE.

YOU REPLACE "DEI" AND PUT IN "BLACK PERSON" OR "LATINO PERSON," AND IT IS THE SAME TYPE OF EXCORIATION OR VILIFICATION ON PEOPLE BASED ON RACE, BUT NOW YOU HAVE A READY EXCUSE BY TALKING ABOUT, DECLARING YOU ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT THE PROCESS AND PRINCIPLES OF DEI.

THE FAR RIGHT HAS UNDERSTOOD THIS HAS BECOME A MAINSTREAM ISSUE AND ARE USING IT TO BASICALLY EMBED THEMSELVES FURTHER INTO THE MAINSTREAM.

THE PATRIOT FRONT, WHILE THEY ARE -- THEY ARE IN FACT A NEO-NAZI GROUPS, FORMALLY -- FORMERLY STORM FRONT NUMBERS THAT CHANGED THEIR TACTICS AND APPEARANCE TO WIN ACCEPTABILITY, THE SAME IS TRUE WITH THE LANGUAGE THEY USE.

THEY USE CERTAIN LANGUAGE TO CONVEY RESPECTABILITY.

THEY RARELY USE EXPLICIT NEO-NAZI LANGUAGE THESE DAYS EXCEPT ONLINE AMONGST THEMSELVES.

WHAT THEY TRY TO DO IS SPEAK IN TERMS OF -- AS WAS POINTED OUT -- WHAT WOULD BE MAINSTREAM PROPAGANDA.

GREGORY: I THINK THE GOLD STANDARD FOR THEM IS TO GET SOME OF THOSE IDEAS IMPORTED INTO WHAT WE WOULD THINK OF AS RIGHT WING MEDIA AND TALK RADIO ON FOX NEWS BY PEOPLE LIKE TUCKER CARLSON ON THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY.

BUT YOU HEAR THIS CREEPING INTO DONALD TRUMP’S OWN LANGUAGE.

YOU MENTIONED GAY AND TRANS PEOPLE.

THE DEI AS A SUBSTITUTE FOR DIRECTLY TALKING ABOUT RACE.

ALSO THE ATTACKS ON IMMIGRANTS.

PHILLIP: THAT’S RIGHT.

GREGORY: ALL THREE OF THESE ARE GROUPS THAT ARE EXTREMELY VULNERABLE AND POLITICALLY WEAK, AND THESE ARE EASY TARGETS.

IN MOVEMENTS LIKE THIS, NEOFASCIST MOVEMENTS, IT’S VERY IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO HAVE AN ENEMY THEY CAN TARGET WITHOUT WORRYING THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY A PRICE FOR IT.

PHILLIP: THAT’S RIGHT.

GREGORY: I THINK WHAT IS REALLY DISTURBING IS SOME OF THE MOST RECENT LANGUAGE OF DONALD TRUMP WHERE HE TALKS ABOUT THE POLITICAL OPPONENTS HIS MOVEMENT HAS AS "VERMIN," AS MARXIST AND FASCIST.

IF I CAN GET THE EXACT LANGUAGE -- I HAVE TO PARAPHRASE, BUT WHAT HE RECENTLY SAID IN HIS PATRIOTS’ DAY SPEECH, THE INTERNAL ENEMIES IN THE UNITED STATES ARE A GREATER ENEMY TO THE UNITED STATES THAN NORTH KOREA OR IRAN OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

THIS IS A CLASSIC FASCIST MOVE.

THESE KIND OF TROPES WE SEE IN EXTREMIST GROUPS GETTING IMPORTED INTO MAINSTREAM RIGHT-WING PROPAGANDA IS WHAT ALLOWS A NOW VERY POWERFUL POLITICAL MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES TO MOBILIZE THOSE KINDS OF TROPES.

PHILLIP: INDEED.

GAUTAM: PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN MASSACHUSETTS TEND TO THINK MASSACHUSETTS IS IMMUNE OR LESS SUSCEPTIBLE THAN THE REST OF THE COUNTRY.

WHAT DOES IT SAY THAT THE NUMBERS ARE HIGHER HERE?

I WAS DOING THE PER CAPITA ADJUSTMENT IN MY HEAD AND IT MADE MASSACHUSETTS SEEM WORSE.

PHILLIP: IN MASSACHUSETTS THEY SEE THE OPPORTUNITY TO UP AND THE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT MASSACHUSETTS.

MASSACHUSETTS ALSO HAS CONSERVATIVE ASPECTS TO THE STATE AND YOU HAVE PARTIES AND THE STATE THAT MIGHT BE SUSCEPTIBLE TO THESE TYPE OF MESSAGES.

THE PATRIOT FRONT ARE ESSENTIALLY TRYING TO CREATE A SITUATION IN CONTRAVENTION TO ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHAT THE STATE IS AND TRYING TO TURN LIBERAL DEMOCRACY ON ITS HEAD.

IT’S NOT ENTIRELY SURPRISING THAT THESE GROUPS, AGAIN, COMING OUT OF THE NORTHEAST, AND THERE IS A TEXAS GROUP BUT ANOTHER IS MASSACHUSETTS-BASED, THEY FIND IN THE STATE THERE’S THE POSSIBILITY OF TURNING SOMEONE AROUND.

THE FACT IS THAT THERE RANKS HAVE GROWN.

PATRIOT FRONT HAS EXPERIENCED GROWTH NATIONALLY.

BUT THEY KNOW EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

GREGORY: ONE OTHER THING I WOULD SAY ABOUT IT IS WE CAN’T NEGLECT THE INTERNAL POLITICS TO THESE MOVEMENTS.

THEY ARE ALSO COMPETING WITH EACH OTHER FOR PRESTIGE.

AND COMING TO THE LIBERAL NORTHEAST AS A PLACE TO ENGAGE IN CONFRONTATION AND CONFLICT CAN BE SEEN AS A BADGE OF HONOR AMONG THESE COMPETING GROUPS.

I THINK THERE IS SOME ELEMENT OF THAT IN IT AS WELL, THAT THIS IS A KIND OF ACT OF AGGRESSION AND DARING ON THEIR PART TO BE PRESENT IN THE NORTHEAST.

GAUTAM: THIS IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT, WE ARE TRACKING IT CLOSELY AND I AM SURE YOU WILL AS WELL.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

NEXT, RECORD HIGH VIEWERSHIP, TICKET PRICES AND NEW FANS, THAT’S PAR FOR THE COURSE FOR WOMEN’S IN C AA DIVISION I BASKETBALL.

THIS SEASONS SUCCESS COMES DESPITE NON--- LONGTIME NEGLECT FROM THE ASSOCIATION WHICH HAS SPENT A LOT MORE TIME AND MONEY ON THE MEN’S TEAMS.

CALLIE CROSSLEY HAS BEEN FOLLOWING ALONG AND JOINED ME TO DISCUSS.

SUDDENLY WOMEN’S BASKETBALL IS THE HOTTEST SPORT IN AMERICA, WHAT IS GOING ON?

CALLIE: WOMEN’S COLLEGE BASKETBALL SPECIFICALLY.

MARCH MADNESS IS A PARTICULAR CULTURAL PHENOMENON.

I AM NOT A SPORTS PERSON SO OUT THERE MILLIONS ARE LAUGHING THAT I’M HAVING THIS DISCUSSION WITH YOU BUT IT IS SUCH A BIG DEAL THAT EVEN THOSE ON THE PERIPHERY WHO BARELY PAY ATTENTION AND DON’T WATCH THE GAMES ARE REALLY INTO IT.

IT’S THE COVERAGE, THE PERSONALITIES, THE CINDERELLA POSSIBILITY OF IT, AND THE FACT THAT FINALLY WE ARE AT A POINT WHERE WOMEN’S SPORTS ARE GETTING THERE -- THEIR DUE AND AN AUDIENCE.

NOT WHERE THE MONEY SHOULD BE YET.

GAUTAM: IT’S ALWAYS BEEN MEN’S SPORTS UNTIL NOW WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE NATIONAL WOMEN’S SOCCER TEAM.

SUDDENLY WOMEN’S BASKETBALL -- CAITLIN CLARK SEEMS TO BE THE BIGGEST CELEBRITY.

IS THIS A CAITLIN CLARK PHENOMENON OR BEYOND THAT?

CALLIE: NO, WITH MARCH MADNESS SPECIFICALLY, I THINK SOME HAS SPILLED OVER TO THE WNBA, BUT MARCH MADNESS, IT WAS 1939 WHEN IT STARTED FOR MEN AND 1982 FOR WOMEN.

THERE WAS A LOT OF CATCH-UP AND A LOT OF THE BLANKET COVERAGE WAS MEN’S TEAMS.

JUST RECENTLY SOMEONE WOKE UP AND SAID PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN WATCHING THE GAMES FOR THE WOMEN.

ALSO THE INTENSITY OF THE COMPETITION BETWEEN THE WOMEN’S TEAMS HAS BROUGHT A LOT OF OTHER ATTENTION.

ALL OF THOSE PERSONALITIES, THE CULTURES ARE FABULOUS.

WHO CAN’T WATCH KIM FROM LSU WITH THE OUTFITS SHE IS WEARING ALL THE TIME AND SHE HERSELF BEING A PLAYER?

DAWN STALEY WITH SOUTH CAROLINA, THEY ARE IN A DEATHMATCH SITUATION.

THERE IS A LOT TO WATCH AND FOLLOW IN THE TALENT IS GREAT.

YES, CAITLIN CLARK HAS DRAWN MORE PEOPLE TO IT BECAUSE SHE HAS A CAN IMPRESSIVE RECORDS.

-- BROKEN IMPRESSIVE RECORDS.

GAUTAM: THE CHEAPEST TICKET FOR A WOMEN’S TRIBUTE SHIP GAME IS CURRENTLY $320, 38% MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE CHEAPEST MEN’S TICKET.

THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN MIND BLOWING 10 YEARS AGO, THE IDEA THE DIFFERENTIAL WOULD GO THAT WAY.

THIS IS NOT THAT THE INTEREST IN THE MEN’S GAME HAS DECREASED, THE WOMEN’S GAME INTEREST HAS INCREASED.

CALLIE: EVERYBODY HAS A PIECE OF IT.

$1 BILLION MORE WILL BE SPENT ON SPORTS BETTING THIS GO ROUND.

40 STATES NOW HAVE LEGAL GAMBLING BECAUSE OF THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURNING THE RULE IN 2018.

NOW WE HAVE THE HIGHEST TICKET PRICES FOR THE FINAL FOUR FOR THE WOMEN.

THAT IS A LOT.

THE MONEY, THERE IS SO MUCH MONEY.

NOT TO MENTION THE PLAYERS THEMSELVES HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE THEIR IMAGES NOW AND MAKE A PROFIT.

SHE’S GOT GATORADE, STATE FARM TO BEGIN WITH AND SHE’S NOT EVEN IN THE WNBA.

GAUTAM: I AM ALSO HAPPY TO LICENSE MY NAME AND LIKENESS IF ANYONE WANTS AT.

THE TRADITIONAL MEN’S COMMENTATORS HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED -- FINALLY, THIS IS REAL.

SKIP BAYLESS HAS SAID HE’S MORE INTERESTED IN THE WOMEN’S TOURNAMENT.

I COULD HAVE LOST SOME MONEY BETTING THAT THEY WOULD SAY THAT.

CALLIE: THE LANGUAGE OF MARCH MADNESS IS REALLY QUITE FEMININE.

GOING TO THE BIG DANCE, HAVING YOUR DANCE CARD PUNCHED, DANCING, THE GLASS LIVER FOR CINDERELLA -- COME ON.

IT’S INTERESTING IT’S ALWAYS BEEN FOCUSED ON THE MEN AT THIS TIME THE GLASS SLIPPER IS ON THE RIGHT FOOT.

GAUTAM: WILL THIS LAST?

CALLIE: YES, THE TALENT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THERE BUT THEY HAVEN’T HAD THE PLATFORMS TO DO IT.

DAWN STALEY HAS A 3.2 MILLION DOLLAR CONTRACT, FINALLY GETTING TO THE PLACE WHERE WOMEN’S COACHES SHOULD BE IN TERMS OF THE COACHING THEY ARE DOING FOR TALENTED PLAYERS LIKE ANGEL REESE AT LSU, THE ENTIRE SOUTH CAROLINA TEAM THAT DAWN STALEY COACHES.

I THINK WE WILL SEE MORE OF THAT AND PARTICULARLY THE TV COVERAGE AND THE BETTING, ABSOLUTELY.

GAUTAM: WILL THIS GROW BEYOND MARCH MADNESS?

CALLIE: I THINK SOME OF IT FOR THE WOMEN IS GOING OVER TO WNBA POPULARITY, BUT I WANT THAT TO JUST BOOST TO THE LEVEL OF INTENSITY -- SOME PART OF MARCH MADNESS HAS TO DO WITH ITS VERY CONFINED, YOU HAVE 68 TEAMS THAT GO DOWN TO THE SWEET SIXTEEN, WHICH WE KNOW WILL START TODAY FOR THE MEN AND TOMORROW FOR THE WOMEN, AND AFTER THAT, DOWN TO THE ELITE EIGHT AND THE FINAL FOUR.

OBVIOUSLY OTHER SEASONS, PROFESSIONAL BASKETBALL TAKES LONGER.

I THINK THE BUILD WAS THERE AND WE’VE SEEN INTEREST AND I AM EXPECTING IT TO NOT ONLY MAINTAIN BUT GO UP THREE OR FOUR TIMES LIKE THE MONEY IS.

GAUTAM: HOW IS YOUR BRACKET DOING?

CALLIE: I DON’T DO BRACKETS I TOLD YOU I’M ON THE PERIPHERY OF THE PHENOMENON MAKES IT A HUGE CULTURAL PHENOMENON FOR THOSE OF US WHO DON’T DO THE BRACKETS -- I DON’T WATCH GAMES, I WANT HIGHLIGHTS.

I AM JUST INTO IT IN THE MOMENT THE WAY I AM.

THAT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE WAY THIS PARTICULAR PHENOMENON HAS EMBEDDED ITSELF IN PEOPLE FAR BEYOND THOSE WHO ARE JUST SPORTS FANATICS.

GAUTAM: IT WILL BE AN EXCITING BIG DANCE FOR THE REST OF MARCH AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE REST OF IT.

CALLIE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

FINALLY, RHODE ISLAND NATIVE RANDY RICE HAS DEDICATED DECADES TO ADVOCATING FOR LGBTQ+ QUALITY.

HE SHARED HIS "STORY FROM STAGE ."

RANDY: IT IS THE WEDNESDAY BEFORE THANKSGIVING 2000 AND MY BOYFRIEND AND I ARE HOSTING OUR FIRST HOLIDAY TOGETHER.

AFTER LIVING APART FOR THE FIRST 5.5 YEARS, TOOK THE PLUNGE AND BOUGHT A HOME AND BEGAN LIVING TOGETHER.

I AM A CLEAR ACTIVIST, HIV-POSITIVE, I HAVE MARCHED, I HAVE DIVED IN AND WRITTEN LETTERS TO THE EDITOR.

I HAVE NOT THROWN CONDOMS A CATHOLIC BISHOPS BUT I HAVE HANDED OUT THOUSANDS OF CONDOMS TO SEX WORKERS.

ANGRY, AIDS, PROTESTING, WE ARE HERE, WE ARE CLEAR, GET USED TO IT -- ALL OF IT.

MY BOYFRIEND AARON BY HIS EXISTENCE AS A VISIBLY GAY BLACK MAN PREFERS NOT TO DRAW ADDITIONAL ATTENTION TO HIMSELF AND UNDERSTANDABLY SO.

WE ARE BOTH MAMA’S BOYS.

IT PRESENTS DIFFERENT LIENS EACH OF US BUT IT IS -- IT PRESENTS DIFFERENTLY FOR EACH OF US BUT IT IS A DEFINING CAP TOURISTIC.

WE ARE HOSTING OUR FIRST THANKSGIVING TOGETHER.

AARON’S MOTHER WILL TRAVEL FROM SOUTH CAROLINA TO JOIN US.

BORN IN 1927, SHE WAS BORN ON THE BORDER OF SOUTH CAROLINA.

HER GRANDFATHER WAS BORN INTO SLAVERY.

MAY GRADUATED COLLEGE IN 1946, AN ASTONISHING ACHIEVEMENT FOR A BLACK WOMAN AT THE TIME.

SHE HAD A LONG AND SUCCESSFUL CAREER IN HEALTH-CARE INDUSTRY AND HAS FOR DECADES BEEN A SUNDAY SCHOOL TEACHER AT FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH.

SHE IS A WOMAN OF DEEP, ABIDING FAITH.

GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE SAID OR BEEN TOLD STRAIGHTEN UP, HERE COMES MAY HAZEL.

[LAUGHTER] WHILE AARON CAME OUT TO HIS MOM AS A GAY MAN IN 1982, NIGHT AFTER NIGHT SHE PRAYS HE WILL FIND THE RIGHT WOMAN.

MAY AND I HAVE MET A HANDFUL OF TIMES AND WE SPEAK ON THE PHONE OCCASIONALLY BUT AARON HAS NOT TOLD HIS MOM EXPLICITLY WE ARE A COUPLE.

HE TELLS ME SHE DOESN’T WANT TO KNOW.

MAY, LIKE MANY MOMS COME UP PREFERS THE POLITE EUPHEMISM "FRIEND."

WHEN SPOKEN AS SOUTHERN CODE, IT IS TYPICALLY PRONOUNCED AS A TWO SYLLABLE WORD "FRAND."

[LAUGHTER] AARON SUGGESTED TO ME ONLY ONCE AND ONLY BRIEFLY THAT PERHAPS DURING HIS MOTHER’S VISIT WE COULD SLEEP IN SEPARATE BEDROOMS.

NOT A CHANCE WAS MY REPLY.

[LAUGHTER] IF I EVER VISIT YOUR MOM IN NORTH CAROLINA AND SHE WANTS US TO SLEEP IN SEPARATE BEDROOMS, FINE.

I WILL DO IT, IT WON’T MAKE ME HAPPY BUT I WILL DO IT.

HER HOUSE, RULES, BUT NOT IN OUR OWN HOUSE.

IT IS THANKSGIVING EVE, THE HOUSE IS CLEAN AND WE ARE READY.

WHEN MAY ARRIVES WE ARE ON OUR BEST BEHAVIOR AND DOING THE DANCE.

LIKE A VICTORIAN ERA DANCE WHERE EVERYONE IS MOVING IN TIME TO THE MUSIC BUT THERE IS NO TOUCHING AND NO EMOTION.

I RETIRE EARLY BECAUSE I WANT TO GIVE THEM TIME AND SPACE TO GO DOWN MEMORY LANE.

UNBEKNOWNST TO ME, AARON’S STRATEGY FOR AVOIDING THE OBVIOUS CONVERSATION WITH HIS MOM IS TO STAY UP LATER THAN HER FOR 10 NIGHTS IN A ROW.

[LAUGHTER] NIGHT ONE IS NOT GOING WELL.

THE CLOCK PASSES 11:00, THEN 11:30, MAY IS COMFORTABLE AND CHATTY IN THE GUESTROOM RIGHT NEXT TO OUR BEDROOM.

FINALLY, ACCEPTING THE INEVITABILITY OF IT ALL, AARON SAYS GOOD NIGHT, MOM.

HE REACHES FOR THE DOOR HANDLE OF THE ROOM MAY SAW ME WALK INTO TWO HOURS EARLIER.

I CAN’T HEAR HER BUT SHE IS ENERGETICALLY AND DESPERATELY POINTING AT THE BEDROOM DOOR AND WHISPERING SOUNDLESSLY "YOU SLEEP IN THEIR -- THERE?"

YES, MOM, GOOD NIGHT.

I AM TUCKED IN BED AND TRYING TO STAY OUT OF IT.

AARON IS PANICKED, HE IS CERTAIN HIS MOTHER IS PACKING AND CALLING A CAB TO THE AIRPORT.

YOU’VE GOT TO TALK TO YOUR MOM.

I CAN’T.

YOU GOT TO.

WE GO ROUND AND ROUND.

YOU WANT ME TO TALK TO YOUR MOM?

YEAH.

[LAUGHTER] OK, IT IS ALMOST MIDNIGHT BUT I AM UP.

I KNOCKED TWICE ON HER DOOR, CAN I COME IN?

YES YOU CAN COME IN.

WHAT WILL I SAY?

I SAY I KNOW YOU PRAYED THAT AARON WOULD HAVE A NICE PLACE TO LIVE AND HE DOES, I KNOW YOU PRAYED HE WOULD HAVE A GOOD JOB AND HE DOES.

I KNOW YOU PRAYED AARON WOULD FIND SOMEONE TO LOVE HIM.

MAY, YOUR PRAYERS CAME TRUE.

I LOVE YOUR SON.

ALL OF THE THINGS YOU PRAYED FOR CAME TRUE.

NOT LIKE YOU EXPECTED THEM TO BUT THEY DID.

AT SOME POINT AARON SAYS HE HEARD A SLAP.

-- HEARD US LAUGH AND THAT IS WHEN HE FELL ASLEEP.

[LAUGHTER] THE NEXT DAY, MY MOM ABBY -- THINK BETTY WHITE -- COMES OVER AND MEETS MAY FOR THE FIRST TIME.

SHE WALKS TO THE FRONT DOOR WITH CHRISTMAS PRESENTS UNDER HER ARM AND SHE ISN’T BEAMING AS SHE HUGS AND KISSES AARON.

ME, I AM WATCHING MAY WATCH MY MOM AND IT IS INTENSE.

MAY IS WATCHING MY MOM TREAT HER SON LIKE FAMILY.

THAT MOMENT, THANKS GIVING DAY, 2000, I KNOW WE CAN ALL DO THE WORK THAT LOVE REQUIRES.

THAT WAS 22 YEARS AGO.

TODAY MAY IS 95 YEARS OLD.

TWO YEARS AGO EXACTLY, FOR EVERY 14TH, 20 TO ANYONE, SHE CAME TO LIVE WITH US.

-- 2021, SHE CAME TO LIVE WITH US.

AND SHE WILL TELL YOU WHETHER YOU ASK HER NOT -- OR NOT, SHE HAS TWO SONS MY AARON AND ME.

[APPLAUSE] GAUTAM: YOU CAN CATCH MORE STORIES FROM THE STAGE MONDAYS AT 9:30 P.M. OR FRIDAYS AT 8:00 P.M.. YOU CAN ALSO CATCH STORIES FROM THE STAGE AT THE INTO THE WILD EVENT.

FOR TICKETS AND INFO, HEAD TO OUR WEBSITE.

THAT’S IT FOR TONIGHT, BUT COME BACK TOMORROW FOR "TALKING POLITICS."

ADAM AND HIS PANEL WILL DISCUSS IMMIGRATION.

HOW WILL LOCAL LAWMAKERS AND PEOPLE IN SHELTERS THE IMPACTED?

THEN, I TALK WITH JOHN SANTIAGO ABOUT REBUILDING TRUST.

THOUGH STORIES TOMORROW.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING, I AM GAUTAM MUKUNDA, GOOD NIGHT.

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