- [Donna] Troubling new numbers show teen suicide in North Carolina has almost tripled.

A new bill could make it faster and easier to get healthcare, plus a measure to require local sheriffs to cooperate with federal immigration officers.

And North Carolina has a new official state cookie.

This is State Lines.

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[upbeat music] ♪ - Hello, I'm Donna King, welcome to State Lines.

Joining us this week, Senator Vicki Sawyer of Aradel Count, Representative Ashton Clemmons of Guilford County, and political analyst, Joe Stewart.

Thank you for joining us today.

- Great to be here.

- Looking forward to our great conversation, I know it's been a busy week down at the General Assembly.

The biggest, though, news this week, in a press conference Thursday, Senate leader Phil Berger and House speaker Tim Moore, announced that they'd reached an agreement between the chambers to expand the federal Medicaid program in North Carolina.

It makes it the single largest expansion of a state entitlement program in the state's history.

Now, the lawmakers say the deal has a work job training program for enrollees, and some measures do loosen regulations on the healthcare industry.

So we're gonna be talking all about this deal, and of course, it's important that we really get to the meat of it because it's not filed yet.

And that's something that we've really talked about at length, we're really relying on what the lawmakers are saying that is in the deal.

My understanding is Governor Cooper's taking a look, see what he thinks, it's an important piece of the puzzle, he's been calling for this for quite a long time.

Now of course, Joe, break it down for us.

Tell us what you know about this.

- Well, this is probably not surprising.

I mean, the speaker and the president Pro Teme had said that they were in negotiations to try to come up with some agreed upon Compromise Package to expand the Medicaid eligibility as is allowed under the Affordable Care Act.

The Senate had some other things that it wanted to include in addition to expansion, changing the certificate of need the way the state regulates healthcare providers and health services across the state, they also wanted to on the Senate side, look at expanding the scope of practice for certain medical professionals.

What they would say would make the provision of medical services widely available for these now 600,000 people that will be eligible for healthcare under this expansion.

The House not as sure that that needed to be a part of this package, and ultimately, what the two leaders announced was that the package would include the some provisions relative to the certificate of need issue, but not the scope of practice issues.

Of course, the devil's in the detail, they announced that legislation would be forthcoming probably next week, maybe the week after, drafting does take a little while to get all of this accomplished.

The governor did weigh in and say, I'm interested to read what you're talking about.

But one notable facet of this was the leadership in the legislature said it would be tied, the expansion would be tied to the enactment of the budget meaning the governor, in effect would have to sign the budget, whatever's contained in that for the Medicaid expansion to take effect.

And the governor's immediate response was, we'll see.

You know, why not do it immediately with sort of the governor's response.

So next week or the week after, when we see the legislation we'll know more specificity, but I think this signals that the legislature is gonna take a vote on an expansion bill sometime in short order.

- Sure, and it's really been coming for a long time, you mentioned Governor Cooper, there's been a centerpiece of what he's wanted.

Only recently have Republicans kind of gotten on board and been talking about doing this, Representative Clemmons, tell me what this would mean for how many people would it serve, and what could it mean for them?

- Yes, I'm excited and I'm hopeful that this gets done quickly because as Joe said, it's 600,000 North Carolinians that are unnecessarily suffering every day that we don't get this passed.

And so, for example, the people in this gap are working North Carolinians, we're talking about for a single mom with two kids, if she makes between 21 and $28,000, she would be in this gap.

If she makes less than that, she would already have Medicaid, and if she were over that she would be able to buy it in the online system through the Affordable Care Act.

So we're talking about working North Carolinians who are barely struggling to get by, and I'm excited that we're all coming to finally get to the place where we can help those North Carolinians in that gap.

And it's really what we should do.

- Sure, and we still have a lot of unanswered questions, it could end up being many more than 600,000, you know, other states have expanded and found it to be much more.

And of course, you know that's something that a lot of people have questions about.

How are we gonna improve access?

You add 600,000 people to the roles, what can we do to make sure that it's worth more than just a piece of paper?

They actually get an appointment.

What are you hearing about this deal and what it could mean for access?

- Yeah, so that's been a senate position is worrying about access to healthcare.

I myself, it takes a month or so to get into my general practitioner and how do you, you know manage that with these new enrollees?

But I do wanna say what Ashton, or Representative Clemmons was saying, and and echo that sentiment, this is, is an entitlement program but one that is meant to, you know bridge those working poor.

And so hope, the fear, I think from some of my conservative folks was that, hey, they're gonna get on the healthcare and not get off.

This is not really this population we're talking about, we're talking about folks who need help and to get a bridge so they can get their economic freedom and do that through their healthcare.

- And it sounds like the Senate had been pushing for certificate of need reform for a long time and the version in the house did not have that.

But it sounds like there will be that it's one I don't wanna comment on the specifics on until we see the bill, because we really just know what was said yesterday.

But it sounds like that was part of the agreement which is a reform aimed at trying to have more access.

- And of course cost is something that we've talked a lot about.

The federal government says that they're gonna gonna kick in 90% of the cost, Senator Sawyer, who's paying the other 10%?

- I guess we are.

No, I kidding.

No, but you know, hospitals have an agreement, there is a hasp portion of that.

And so it really will help North Carolina.

And it's not the budgetary burden that we thought it would be maybe 10 years ago, I think the timing is finally right.

Now that we have Medicaid transformed, we have a fixed cost system.

The system was broken for many, many years and there was abuses in it.

So now that we can kind of have an understanding of what it truly costs to expand it, I think the timing's right to get it done.

- Sure, lots more on this to come.

I'm sure we'll be talking about this for quite a while.

So, you know, also, representative Clemmons, you were in a committee meeting judiciary committee meeting this week.

We talked about ICE.

So you know, on Wednesday a bill passed a state committee, the judiciary committee requiring North Carolina Sheriffs to contact US Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE if they can't confirm the citizenship status of someone who's in custody accused of serious felonies and violent crimes.

You know so.

It is an interesting bill.

It's something that's come up a lot.

I'm curious to hear what you think of it?

- Yes, so I'm on the Rules Committee, which we did hear this bill.

I am not on judiciary and do not have a judiciary background, just to be clear.

- [Joe] What you do know about rules?

- I do know, well, more or less, but no, and we did hear the bill in Rules and this is the third time this bill has come up in the General Assembly and been voted on in the House.

Both of the last two sessions, every Democrat has voted against this bill.

My biggest concern with the bill is that local elected sheriffs are elected by the people in their communities to do what their community feels is needed to keep their community safe, and that can and should look different in different communities, and this bill is taking away the ability of sheriffs to make those decisions.

And we heard clearly from people in the immigrant community that they feel this would make them less safe, less able to report things.

- Sure.

- Particularly, domestic violence is a big concern, and the economic impact of other states that have had similar bills.

So that's what we heard in committee.

That's where Democrats had fallen on it.

Of course, it didn't come yet to the floor for a vote, though I expect it soon.

- Let's hear from Rules Chairman, Destin Hall.

He had a few comments about it.

He is the bill sponsor on this piece of legislation.

- There's a long list of these examples, in cases where folks were in jails, they were charged with crimes, an ICE detainer was issued.

ICE wanted to come pick 'em up.

The sheriff let 'em go after they met their bond, pursuant to whatever they were charged with.

And they got back out and they committed some other offense, and many times serious offenses.

This bill would put a stop to that.

It certainly would put a stop to folks being able to get around these detainer requests.

Again, we're just talking about folks who are charged with serious crimes in our state.

This is not about going out and rounding anybody up.

It's not about trying to federalize our sheriffs.

- [Donna] So however, critics on this measure do say that they fear it will separate families, could frighten undocumented people into not reporting domestic violence, or maybe even moving out of the state.

So, Senator Sawyer, tell me what your thoughts are on this bill?

- Well, I opened up the Google, [everyone chuckling] and I was actually looking at Immigration and Customs of course, on the website.

And I'm like, who are these people?

Like, we're talking about these people, let's define them.

And the folks at Immigration and Customs Enforcement said that 92% of the people that they removed from the United States, actually had criminal convictions.

1,900 of those were homicide, 1,900 of others were kidnapping, and 42,000 were from assaults.

So we are talking about a population that is getting arrested, who is committing a crime, regardless of their citizenship status.

And I feel like we should be operating for the safety of our community in working with the federal government on deporting these individuals.

- Does this impact a lot of different sheriffs, because my understanding is, it may not?

- Right.

Right.

So it seems like in Raleigh we do all this all the time.

It's like we legislate to the bad, what some people say the bad actors, but no, so, you know, I'm very proud of our sheriff in Iredell County.

He cooperates with ICE, a lot of sheriffs do.

There are some, like Ashton had mentioned, that try to go outside of the law and will do things that, you know, just are, although they feel that it's the right thing to do, it's just not lawful.

- Sure.

Sure.

Well, they had a lot of speakers that came to this committee meeting, let's see, here's one of the witnesses that was there that spoke to members.

- This bill erodes public safety.

A 2013 study found that 70% of unauthorized immigrants and 44% of Latinx individuals, were less likely to communicate with law enforcement if they believed officers would question their immigration status, or that of the people they know.

This is especially damaging in situations where people are experiencing intimate partner violence and other violence which they seek to help, or to seek help or to be a witness in.

- Now he makes a point.

What do you think, Joe, tell me what your thoughts are on this?

- Well, you know, this may be one of those issues.

Unfortunately, this does occur in politics from time to time, where nobody's actually wrong.

I mean, everybody has a a perspective on this.

The law enforcement community wants to make sure that the people they provide protection to, are safe.

In many instances, someone whose documentation is not adequate to remain in the country, probably does need to be taken out given their criminal behavior.

In other instances, undoubtedly, people are inhibited to having conversations with law enforcement on issues like domestic violence, because of a fear that their status somehow gets them caught up in this system.

I think the greatest canard in all of this is that somehow we're gonna solve the immigration problem in this country by doing stuff at the local level.

The Constitution of the United States makes it very clear, this is Congress's responsibility.

We have a terrible situation on our southern border.

We have lots of people, hardworking, dedicated people in this state that are not documented, came here to escape terrible situations, either economically or politically.

We have employers that have jobs they cannot fill, for which there are lawful visa programs that are not being administered.

It is far past time for Congress to act on this, reform the immigration system for the entire country, and take this burden off of local law enforcement and our state legislatures who are trying to do the right thing, but really don't have responsibility for this area of public policy.

- Sure.

Great discussion.

Now, one of the stories that really caught my attention this week, Monday, the North Carolina Child Fatality Task Force, teen mental health.

There's been a troubling trend for youth mental health.

Suicide rates have nearly tripled for teens over the last 20 years.

Those numbers are now coming from a new report out this week by the North Carolina Child Fatality Task Force.

The suicide rate for a youth between the ages of 10 and 17 reached its highest rate in two decades.

In 2002, there were 2.1 suicides for the 10 to 17 age range per 100,000 people in North Carolina.

Now, compare that to 5.7 per 100,000 in 2021.

That's nearly triple the amount.

Plus the suicide is now the leading cause of death in North Carolina teens, behind motor vehicle accidents.

You know, this is startling.

As a parent, and certainly as a North Carolinian, this is alarming to me.

What's happening?

What can we do to help our young people?

Senator Sawyer, what are your thoughts?

- You know, as a parent of two daughters who are in their teenage and young womanhood, it plagues me every day and I worry about the health of them and their classmates.

And I looked even further into the numbers.

So for every one of those suicides, there's four hospitalizations, there's eight emergency department visits, there's 27 self-reported incidents, and almost 275 seriously considering taking that act.

So, just the numbers alone don't represent the amount of pain in our community and how it works out.

Now, I feel a little bit like old woman yelling at cloud here, but I do blame social media.

I do think that there's this alternative reality that has been created in these devices that these children are spending 8 to 12 hours a day, in some cases on.

And I feel like their reality is not what really happens in the world and when those devices are gone or they receive negative feedback from that reality that they live in, then that's when they have self-harming care.

- Sure.

So, not just a parent, though.

You're on the child fatality task force.

- Yes.

- What are your colleagues on that task force, what are they thinking can be done?

- Well, there's a lot of ideas about it.

I think you're gonna see the general assembly and continue with Medicaid expansion.

Part of that portion was to provide no CON for those mental health beds.

I think you're gonna see us as a general assembly come together and really focus not only our resources with dollars and manpower towards helping fix this problem.

- Sure.

Now, Representative Clemmons, you're a parent, a educator, longtime educator.

You've probably seen this eroding in teen mental health.

What are you seeing?

- For sure.

I mean, my 11-year-old daughter is in the beginning of this range and one in five North Carolinian high school students said that they seriously considered suicide.

I mean, that like sits on my heart every single day.

Representative Elmore and Representative Kristin Baker and Representative Donna White and I filed a bill yesterday, actually, that would add suicide prevention strategies to our already established instruction on mental health.

When my daughter was asking me about a friend who had talked about suicide and I didn't know in the moment what to say to her, but I talked to a guidance counselor later and she said, "You should tell her about the 988 hotline, so that all of our young people are equipped with a thing to say and a strategy to give each other.

So, I think that's a starting point that we are helping them have strategies, so they don't feel overwhelmed, but I also think our guidance counselors, our social workers and our nurses in schools are at the front line of how we provide support and we need to get more of them up to the state ratios, so that they are able to help our very clearly struggling children.

- Sure.

Sure.

Now, from a society standpoint, our workforce, our future workforce for North Carolina, what do you think this means?

- Well, this is definitely an issue that has to be addressed and I think we were looking at a number of factors.

I think social media has made life for young people far more complicated.

COVID created all kinds of sense of disconnect from society.

Young people did not have access to the infrastructure in networks of colleagues and friends that they've had historically.

One of the statistics in this that's particularly troubling to me, all four of us are the parent of a daughter and historically, these suicide rates had disproportionately been young men, but women are now closing the gap, as young girls are far more impacted by these societal pressures than they have in the past.

I think it is a holistic problem.

It necessitates a holistic solution.

Certainly more counseling, more awareness, the fact that there is a number now that can be called and so, you can immediately get services and such, but we're gonna have to reach out to our children, both boys and girls, to make sure they know that they are cared for and loved and make sure they have the resources they need to share concerns that they have that may be leading to suicidal thoughts.

This is really something we need to address as a state.

No one disagrees.

This is not a partisan issue.

We need to make sure our children are better cared for in this regard.

- Sure.

Very interesting.

I'm hoping that this trend will turn around very quickly, of course.

Also, this week, on Wednesday, North Carolina legislators took a step toward repealing the literacy test requirement in the North Carolina Constitution.

The House Judiciary Committee approved Bill 44, which would put the repeal to voters in the 2024 General Election ballot on whether to officially end the requirement that North Carolinians have to be able to read and write any section of the Constitution in English in order to register to vote.

The requirement was added in the state constitution in 1900 during Jim Crow.

Now, that literacy test provision is not enforceable, because it violates the Federal Voting Rights Act of 1965.

So interesting.

I did not really understand that this was still in North Carolina's constitution.

Give me the background.

- Well, it's interesting and we forget many times that there are these vestiges of a segregated society in North Carolina.

It's interesting.

The North Carolina legislative building, which is celebrating its 60th anniversary this year, if you go to the third floor, the gallery level where you can watch the proceedings of the House and Senate, there are restrooms on the front side of the building.

Small restrooms that were the original colored restrooms, because when the building was opened in 1963, there was a public accommodations law, but the building was segregated.

This is a part of our history that we should recognize.

The fact that the legislature wants to take up, in effect, putting right in our constitution what we really stand for and believe today, I think is an important thing.

It sends the right message.

We want an inclusive society.

We want people to feel free to express themselves at the ballot box.

We wanna make sure that there's integrity in our elections and that people who are saying who they are when they vote, all of that is important, too, but we don't want anyone to feel as though they're gonna be denied access to the ballot, because of their race or gender ethnicity.

- Sure, sure.

Representative Clemmons, what's the process from here, now that it's gone through this judiciary committee?

- Yes.

So, it will have to go to rules committee in the House and then, it would come to the floor of the House and then, go through committees and obviously, on the floor of the Senate and then, it would be up to voters of North Carolina, 'cause anytime we change the constitution, the voters have to have a say in that.

So, it's a steep hill still to go, but I am so glad Representative Brown and Alexander and our caucus and others have... Representative Alexander's been pushing for this for many, many, many years.

So, and it's really a stain on who we are as a state that needs to be fixed.

- And it's not enforceable.

- Right.

Yeah.

I mean, it isn't, so like, it's not actually meaning anything, except that it is a statement of where we used to be and we need to change it for who we want to be moving forward.

- Sure, sure.

Senator Sawyer, somebody told me that this may not be a slam dunk.

Have we ever tried to repeal this before?

- From my understanding, there was a vote, what, back in the 70s?

And I can't... Was that what it was?

And it didn't go, but to me, this is one of those things that I'm gonna look back and go, "I was a part of that," and I'm gonna be very proud to be a part of that.

As a Native North Carolinian and seeing how we've been growing and moving forward and progressing as a state, this is just one of those opportunities to say we did this and we are fixing what was wrong, as much as we can fix what happened in the past.

So, I'm excited to have this on the ballot and I am sure that voters will overwhelmingly support this.

- Right and it's a good opportunity for kids to see the process.

- Yes.

- I think.

One of the other measures that's been in the House is requiring university students to have three hours of basic civics, constitution, things like that.

Tell me what your thoughts are on that.

- Well, I always joke on the inside with some of my fellow legislators.

I think that you should have that before you email your legislature, [people laughing] because I do not know President Biden and I do not really go to Washington every week.

I promise you this, and so.

And all kidding aside, though, I do believe there is a lot of misunderstanding about how government does operate.

Even from those that purport to understand it.

So I think this is a great lesson in civics.

And I'm excited that it's gonna be around.

- Right, very interesting.

What are your thoughts on requiring students to have that three hours in college of basic civics constitutionalism?

- Yeah, I think for our university students, I think it makes sense.

It has a lot of, including MLK's letter from Birmingham Jail, so some really foundational documents to who we are.

I'm interested in the inclusion of community colleges.

- Sure.

- Because a lot of our community college students are paying by the hour, and really struggling to get by, and are getting certifications that are specific for specific jobs.

So I'm interested that they are both included right now.

And is that really, like when we talk about workforce issues... - Sure.

- And many community college students, every extra credit hour is a financial burden for them.

So yes.

- Of course!

- So I think we gotta look at that part of it.

- Sure.

- So we'll see about how it comes.

But it was in committee yesterday in the House.

- I think so.

- So yeah, moving, probably.

- That definitely caught my eye.

Tell me what caught your eye this week, what have we missed?

- Well, interesting, I will mention two things, one new thing and one old thing that's a new thing.

I went to the opening game for the Charlotte Football Club, 60,000 North Carolinians, a richly diverse crowd.

Who knew there was a sport you could play without using your hands?

And it was a fascinating example of how North Carolina's become a more modern place.

The old thing is the Lost Colony, the production on Roanoke Island since 1937.

They were shuttered during Covid.

Really spent the time refining the production.

They've put in this incredible new light show, I saw...

Whether you are a North Carolinian by birth or acquisition really, a rite of passage is to see the Lost Colony.

- Yeah!

- So make plans this summer to go to Roanoke Island and see the new production of The Lost Colony.

It's gonna be great.

- It is an amazing show.

- Yeah.

- I remember seeing that as a kid and taking my kids.

I think a lot of newcomers to North Carolina don't know about it, but it's definitely a must do.

- Can I give one shout out, Donna?

- Please, do it.

- So we voted again on the state cookie of North Carolina, the Moravian Sugar Cookie.

But the idea came from fourth graders at a school where I was a principal.

- I love that!

- Yeah, Brooks Global Studies in Gilford County.

And John Phillips was the awesome fourth grade teacher.

They do a huge North Carolina project.

And some of his students several years ago were like, this should be the state cookie, and wrote letters to Representative Hardester, who then...

This was while I was the principal, and then I came to the legislature.

So I'm giving a shout out to Brooks Global Studies for the state cookie.

- I love that, and the Moravian Star?

- Yes, that was added this session.

- In X number of years in the future, someone will run for the state legislature saying, in the fourth grade, I advocated for the cookie!

- Yes, that's right, yes, our future leaders, yes!

- Senator Sawyer, what cut your eye this week?

- Well, something that I'm working on to make children happier, is to extend the wait time from when you get your driver's license.

- Oh gosh.

- Right?

- So that we have had so many folks contact our office.

And during Covid it was hard for them to get into driver's ed training.

So we reduced the waiting time to six months from a year from the time you get your permit to now your license.

This bill now extends that for yet another year, but permanently makes that wait period only a nine month, which really aligns with the other Southeast states.

- It does.

- And so I'm excited for that.

- Oh, what are we gonna do about getting appointments?

That's the thing that we're running into.

- Well, it's gotta be all about modernization.

- Sure.

- In fact, we heard from the DMV commissioner recently in our committee.

And I have been very, very strongly saying, please modernize the DMV.

And that starts with some hard things that they need to get done.

But the General Assembly is invested over $90 million in that process over the last 10 years.

And so it's time for them to get moving on it.

- It is.

That's something we're talking about in our house a lot.

Well, we've gotta wrap it up here, the "State Lines" thank you so much for being here.

It was so nice to see you all.

But as we wrap up this week's "State Lines" we're all gonna go take a cookie break, you should too.

We were just talking about it.

The North Carolina House Committee has introduced a measure this week that makes the Moravian Cookie and the Moravian Star the official North Carolina cookie and star.

So these are really special treats, mainstay of North Carolina history.

And if you haven't made it out to the Triad and Winston-Salem to taste them, they are certainly worth the trip.

Have a great weekend.

- Thank you.

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