"CONNECTING POINT" COMING UP STORIES WE'RE CONNECTING YOU WITH TONIGHT.

ONE WESTERN MASS CITY GRAPPLES WITH THE PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERN.

>> THERE WILL ALWAYS BE TIMES WHEN THE CALL COMES IN TOO LATE AND THE STRUCTURE CAN'T BE SAVED.

BUT WHAT ABOUT WHEN THE UNTHINKABLE HAPPENS AND THE HYDRANT ITSELF DOESN'T EVEN WORK?

NORTHAMPTON STATE SENATOR ON THE COVID-19 VACCINE ROLL OUT IN PERSON MASS.

>> THEY HEAR THEIR FOLKS WILL HAVE THE VACCINE AND ANOTHER MOMENT THEY WON'T.

IN ONE MOMENT THAT THEIR HOSPITAL WILL BE VACCINATING AND ANOTHER IT WON'T.

>> AND GREENFIELD'S STONE SOUP CAFÉ SERVES UP MEALS FOR THOSE IN NEED.

>> WELSH EVERYBODY SHOULD ACCESS THE MEAL AND THOSE THAT PAY SHOULD AND THOSE WHO CAN'T ARE WELCOME TO PARTAKE OF DELICIOUS RESTAURANT-ROT MOOD.

>>> DETAILS UP NEXT ON "CONNECTING POINT."

>>> SUPPORT FOR "CONNECTING POINT" IS PROVIDED BY OUR CONTRIBUTING VIEWERS.

>>> "CONNECTING POINT" AND THANKS FOR JOINING US ON "CONNECTING POINT."

I'M ZYDALIS BAUER.

>>> HOUSE FIRES ARE TRAGIC AT ANY TIME OF THE YEAR.

BUT WINTER FIRES THAT LEAVE THE INHABITANTS HOMELESS CAN BE ESPECIALLY DEVASTATING.

IN WHAT'S BEEN MAKING MATTERS WORSE FOR THE RESIDENTS OF NORTH ADAMS DURING A RECENT SPATE OF HOUSE FIRES HAS BEEN A LACK OF FUNCTIONING HYDRANTS.

IT'S BEEN AN ISSUE FOR SEVERAL YEARS BUT HAS RECEIVED RENEWED ATTENTION AS THE STATE GRAPPLES WITH ONE OF ITS COLDEST WINTERS IN SOME TIME.

"CONNECTING POINT"'S BRIAN SULLIVAN TRAVELED TO THE NORTHERN BERKSHIRES TO FIND OUT HOW THE STATE'S SMALLEST CITY PLANS TO TACKLE THE PROBLEM.

>> FIRE HYDRANTS ALONG THE SIDE OF THE ROAD MAY BE AS COMMON A SITE AS THE VEHICLES THAT DRIVE PAST THEM THE SAFE ASSUMPTION FOR MOST OF US WHEN WE SEE THEM IS THAT IN THE EFFORT OF AN EMERGENCY, A FIREFIGHTER WILL BE ABLE TO REMOVE THE STEAMER CAP, ONE OF THE SIDE CAPS, ATTACH A HOSE TO THE APPARATUS AND EVENTUALLY GET WATER TO FLOW OUT AT A HIGH ENOUGH VELOCITY TO QUICKLY EXTINGUISH A FIRE.

THERE WILL ALWAYS BE TIMES WHEN THE CALL COMES IN TOO LATE AND THE STRUCTURE WANTS O-THE CAN'T BE SAVE THE.

BUT WHAT WHEN THE HYDRANT ITSELF DOESN'T EVEN WORK?

IN RECENT YEARS, THIS HAS BEEN A RECURRING THEME IN NORTH ADAMS.

JUST WITHIN THE THREE ROADS THAT HOUSE THE 96 UNITS OF GRAY LOOK VALLEY APARTMENTS THERE ARE THREE NON-FUNCTIONING HYDRANTS.

ONE OF THEM DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM A FIRE THAT DESTROYED APARTMENT 193 IN JANUARY OF 2021.

ALL SIX UNITS NOW WILL LIKELY HAVE TO BE LEVELED DUE TO THE DAMAGE.

ELSEWHERE IN TOWN, THIS HOLE IN THE GROUND AND PILE OF RUBBLE ARE ALL THAT REMAIN OF A FAMILY HOME THAT STOOD HERE FOR DECADES ON THE CORNER OF VISAY AND SCHOOL STREET.

ALSO ON THE CORNER THIS NON-FUNCTIONING HYDRANT.

SO WHAT HAPPENED?

>> NORTH ADAMS LIKE MANY CITIES AND TOWNS ACROSS MASSACHUSETTS HAS HAD TO MAKE VERY DIFFICULT BUDGET CUTS OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DECADES DUE TO DECREASE IN FUNDING FROM THE STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

ONE OF THOSE LOSSES HAS BEEN IN OUR FIRE HYDRANTS AND FIRE HYDRANT INFRASTRUCTURE AND UMP THAT'S RESULTED IN SEVERAL FIRES IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS WHERE THE FIRE DEPARTMENT LASS NOT BEEN ABLE TO ACCESS A WORKING FIRE HYDRANT IN THE MIDDLE OF A POTENTIALLY CAT TRAFFIC FIRE.

>> NOW THESE WRAPPED UP HYDRANTS DOT THE SIDES OF THE ROAD LIKE BIG ORANGE POST-IT NOTES.

POSSIBLY BUILTER SWEET REMINDERS TO THE FIREFIGHTERS OF THE UNIT THAT THEY CAN AND CAN'T USE IN THE EVENTS OF AN EMERGENCY.

DEPARTMENT DECLINED COMMENT, THOUGH, WHEN WE REACHED OUT TO THEM.

BUT WE WERE ABLE TO MEET UP WITH THE WIDOW OF SOMEONE WHO SERVED ON THE DEPARTMENT FOR THE BETTER PART OF THREE DECADES.

SHE HAD NO PROBLEM DISCLOSING HER FRUSTRATION WITH THE SIGHT OF THESE ORANGE BAGS.

>> I SAW TWO TODAY ON MY WAY HOME FROM WORK.

AND I THOUGHT, WHY IS THIS HAPPENING?

WHY -- WELL, I UNDERSTAND THE FINANCIAL ASPECTS AND SETTING A PRECEDENT FOR GOING FORWARD WITH THE PROJECT.

IT'S AN IMMEDIATELY CONCERN.

>> MUCH OF NORTH ADAMS IS COMPRISED OF NEIGHBORHOODS THAT SURROUND WINDSOR LAKE.

HILLY, LOTS OF OLD HOUSES, HOUSES HOPEFULLY WITH A WORKING HYDRANT NEARBY.

LIKE THIS ONE 300 YARDS FROM A HOUSE THAT CAUGHT FIRE IN LATE FEBRUARY.

A STREET LIKE THIS ONE CAN BE FOUNDER ANYWHERE IN THE NORTHERN BERKSHIRES, OLDERS HOMES WITH OUTDATED HEAT BECOME PRIME TARGETS FOR HOUSE FIRES.

HAVING FUNCTIONING HYDRANTS WITHIN PROXIMITY MAY SEEM LIKE AN ISSUE OF COMMON SENSE.

BUT IN NORTH ADAMS IT'S BECOME AN ISSUE OF DOLLARS AND CENTS.

>> AT THIS POINT IT'S GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE A DEDICATED INFRASTRUCTURE PLAN TO BRING ALL OF THOSE NON-WORKING HYDRANTS UP TO WORKING ORDER.

IT'S GOING TO TAKE CAPITAL AND THE CITY IS GOING TO NEED TO RAISE THAT REVENUE THROUGH STATE AND FEDERAL GRANT MONEY.

>>> THE BAKER ADMINISTRATION HAS COME UNDER FIRE OVER THE ROLLOUT OF COVID-19 VACCINES IN MASSACHUSETTS.

THAT CRITICISM INCLUDES THE AVAILABILITY OF VACCINES IN SOME PARTS OF THE STATE AND BREAK DOWNS IN THE ONLINE SYSTEM USED TO MAKE APPOINTMENTS.

NOW A SPECIAL LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE OF HOUSE AND SENATE MEMBERS IS LOOKING AT CONCERNS RAISED OVER THE VACCINATION ROLLOUT.

NORTHAMPTON STATE SENATOR JO COMERFORD IS THE SENATE LEADER OF THE NEW JOINT COMMITTEE ON COVID-19 AND EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS AND MANAGEMENT.

AND "CONNECTING POINT"'S RAY HERSHEL SPOKE WITH HER ABOUT THE GOALS OF THE COMMITTEE AND HOW RESIDENTS' CONCERNS CAN BE ADDRESSED.

>> THE COMMITTEE HAS TWO MAIN GOALS, IF YOU WILL.

ONE IS A VERY SHORT-TERM POSITION OF WATCH DOG.

AND SO YOU SAW US STAND UP A QUICKLY, QUICK OVERSIGHT HEARING ON THE VACCINE ROLLOUT IN THAT SHORT-TERM CAPACITY.

OF THE COMMITTEE.

THE LONGER TERM CAPACITY IS EQUALLY IMPORTANT.

AND THAT LONGER TERM CAPACITY OF THE COMMITTEE SAYS, IN FIVE YEARS, 10 YEARS, 15 YEARS, WHEN THE COMMONWEALTH FACES ANOTHER DISASTER, IT COULD BE ANOTHER CONTAGIOUS, A NATURAL DISASTER.

HOW ARE WE AS A LEGISLATURE, AS A STATE, GOING TO BE MORE PREPARED?

MORE RESILIENT?

>> SENATOR, THIS JOINT LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE IS HELD ITS FIRST PUBLIC HEARING.

GOVERNOR BAKER WAS AMONG THE WITNESSES.

AND HE GOT GRILLED PRETTY WELL AT THAT PARTICULAR HEARING.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT WHAT YOU FEEL THE COMMITTEE LEARNED GATHERED FROM THAT HEARING THAT WILL HELP YOU MOVING FORWARD?

AND HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE THE WAY THE STATE HAS RESPONDED TO THE VACCINE ROLLOUT AND THE WEBSITE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE TRYING TO NEGOTIATE IT AND GET APPOINTMENTS?

>> YES, THE GOVERNOR DID FACE, I THINK, THE FULL MEASURE OF BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE MEMBERS' FRUSTRATION.

VIS-A-VIS THE VACCINE ROLLOUT WHICH WAS THE SUBJECT OF THE HEARING.

WE HAVE ASKED FOR NUMBERS OF FOLLOW-UP DOCUMENTS INCLUDING THE FLOWCHART FOR DECISION-MAKING AROUND THE VACCINES.

WE HAVE ASKED TO SEE THE CONTRACT WITH ALL OF THE VACCINE-RELATED VENDORS WORKING OUTSIDE OF THE STATE.

OUTSIDE OF THE STATE AS VENDORS OR CONTRACTORS, AS PART OF THIS.

WE HAVE ASKED FOR A DETAILED ACCOUNTING OF THE MONEY SPENT, THE STATE MONEY SPENT AND THE FEDERAL MONEY SPENT.

SO OVERALL I THINK IT WAS ACTUALLY QUITE PRODUCT STIFF.

IT SET THE STAGE FOR A SECOND HEARING.

WE HAVE ASKED BOTH THE GOVERNOR AND SECRETARY TO RETURN TO THE LEGISLATURE ON MARCH 16th FOR ADDITIONAL CONVERSATIONS.

AND AT THAT TIME WE WILL GO EVEN DEEPER ON THE TECH AND EVEN DEEPER ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND PREPAREDNESS.

>> SENATOR, HAS HOW MUCH HAS THE ROLLOUT AND THE ACCESS TO FOLKS GETTING APPOINTMENTS IMPROVED SINCE THIS FIRST WAS ESTABLISHED AND THE FIRST OBVIOUSLY VACCINES WENT OUT?

HOW MUCH BETTER ARE WE TODAY THAN WE WERE BACK THEN?

>> THE REAL DIFFICULTIES IN THIS ROLLOUT HAPPENED AT THE TOP OF WHAT WE CALL PHASE 2.

PHASE 2 IS WHEN WE BEGAN WITH THOSE 75 AND OLDER, MOVING THEN TO 65 AND OLDER AND THOSE WITH TWO EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITIONS OR CO-MORBIDITIES.

AND I THINK THE PHASE 2 ROLLOUT HAS BEEN A TRAVESTY, FRANKLY.

THE STATE SHOULD BEEN AND CAN DO 100% BETTER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE COMMONWEALTH WITH REGARD TO COMMUNICATION, WITH REGARD TO TECH INTERFACE, AND WITH REGARD TO ACCESSIBILITY OF VACCINE.

IN ADDITION TO THE TECH DIFFICULTIES, THERE HAVE BEEN NUMBERS OF CHANGE OF PLANS, WHICH HAVE MADE, AGAIN, THE USER EXPERIENCE OR CONSTITUENT EXPERIENCE VERY DIFFICULT.

SO PEOPLE HAVE NOT ONLY HAD TO REALLY DEAL WITH THE WEBSITE THAT IS BOTH BROKEN AND THEN WHEN IT WORKS, COMPLETELY DIFFICULT TO NAVIGATE, BUT THEY HEAR IN ONE MOMENT THAT THEIR LOCAL PUBLIC HEALTH FOLKS WILL HAVE THE VACCINE AND IN ANOTHER MOMENT THEY WON'T.

AND ONE MOMENT THAT THEIR HOSPITAL WILL BE VACCINATING AND ANOTHER MOMENT IT WON'T.

AND SO ON.

AS WE TWIST AND TURN THROUGH THESE CHANGES.

>> NOW, THE GOVERNOR IN MORE RECENT DEVELOPMENTS HAS INDICATED THAT HE'S GOING AHEAD WITH ALLOWING RESTAURANTS TO OPEN AT FULL CAPACITY VERY SOON.

ALSO BUNKED UP TOURNAMENTERS ON THE LIST FOR GETTING VACCINES.

DO YOU AGREE WITH THOSE PARTICULAR DECISIONS ?

>> I AM FILLED WITH GREAT CONCERN THAT THE GOVERNOR IS MOVING TOO QUICKLY BEFORE THE VACCINE HAS, WE HAVE HAD A SUFFICIENT AMOUNT OF VACCINE IN THE COMMONWEALTH TO GET US INTO A SAFER POSITION.

SO I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

WITH REGARD TO EDUCATORS, YOUR SECOND QUESTION, THE TEACHERS WERE IN THIS NEXT PHASE, THIS NEXT STEP IN PHASE 2.

SO THEY WERE IN THE ESSENTIAL WORKFORCE COHORT.

WHAT THIS DECISION TODAY DOES IS MOVE THEM TO THE TOP OF THAT COHORT.

I THINK HAND IN HAND, WITH THE DECISION TO ASK THAT THEY RETURN TO THE CLASSROOM, IT DOES MAKE SENSE TO ME THAT WE WOULD AFFORD TEACHERS THIS OPPORTUNITY.

LIKE IT MAKES SENSE TO ME THAT WE WOULD MAKE SURE THAT THEIR SCHOOL SYSTEMS HAVE EQUITABLE ACCESS TO THE KINDS OF SUPPLIES AND MODIFICATIONS AND SET-UPS THAT THEY NEED TO KEEP THE STUDENTS SAFE AND TO KEEP THE TEACHERS AND STAFF SAFE.

>> SENATOR, ONE LAST QUESTION.

THAT IS, WHAT MESSAGE WOULD YOU HAVE FOR THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE STILL FRUSTRATESSED OR STILL DISAPPOINTED WHO HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO GET AN APPOINTMENT FOR THEIR FIRST VACCINE YET?

AND THEY ARE TRYING TO BE PATIENT BUT IT'S BECOMING VERY, VERY FRUSTRATING.

WHAT'S THE MESSAGE TO THEM?

>> I WOULD OWN AND SAY THAT THERE IS -- THERE IS AN INSUFFICIENT FEDERAL SUPPLY AT THIS MOMENT TO MEET THE DEMAND.

BUT THAT DOESN'T EXCUSE THE STATE FROM HAVING A SET-UP ON TOP OF THAT FEDERAL SUPPLY THAT'S WORKABLE FOR PEOPLE.

AND I WOULD TELL THEM THAT MY COLLEAGUES AND I ARE COMPLETELY LASER FOCUSED ON THIS AND WILL BE THROUGHOUT THIS CRISIS.

UNTIL OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE VACCINATED SHOULD SHE CHOOSE TO BE VACCINATED UNTIL EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS VACCINATED.

>>> EVERY FRIDAY NIGHT "CONNECTING POINT" EXPLORES THE PEOPLE, PLACES AND IDEAS THAT MATTER MOST TO WESTERN NEW ENGLAND.

BUT IT DOESN'T STOP THERE.

YOU CAN FIND US ONLINE ANY TIME FOR EXCLUSIVE FEATURES AND CONTENT INCLUDING PART 2 OF OUR THREE-PART ONGOING DIGITAL EXCLUSIVE SERIES, "REMOTE LEARNING."

WHICH EXAMINES THE CHALLENGES AND TRIUMPHS OF BOTH PARENTS AND STUDENTS AS THEY NAVIGATE EDUCATION DURING COVID.

>> I PRETEND I'M MR. ROGERS EVERY DAY BUT WITH 10 TIMES THE ENERGY.

BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE I'M PUTTING ON A SHOW EVERY DAY.

AND I EVEN LIKE, I STUDIED THEATER.

SO IT FEELS LIKE I'M DOING A PLAY EVERY DAY.

>> THAT'S AVAILABLE ONLINE RIGHT NOW AT NEPM.ORG/CONNECTINGPOINT.

AND BE SURE TO CATCH THE FINAL INSTALLMENT OF OUR THREE-PART EXCLUSIVE DIGITAL SERIES "REMOTE LEARNING," AVAILABLE ONLINE NEXT FRIDAY.

>>> OVER THE LAST YEAR, THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC HAS AFFECTED NEARLY EVERY ASPECT OF OUR DAILY LIVES.

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE LOST JOBS OR HAD OTHER FINANCIAL HARDSHIPS, IT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO AFFORD FOOD FOR EACH MEAL OF THE DAY.

AND FRANKLIN COUNTY, STONE SOUP CAFÉ IS HELPING THOSE WITH FOOD INSECURITY EACH SATURDAY BY OFFERING A RESTAURANT-QUALITY MEAL AT A PAY WHAT YOU CAN PRICE.

"CONNECTING POINT"'S ROSS LIPPMAN VISITED THE CAFÉ RECENTLY TO SEE HOW STONE SOUP OFFERS MEALS TO THOSE IN NEED.

>> IT'S THE LAST WEEKEND IN FEBRUARY.

AND IT'S SNOWING.

AGAIN.

BUT COME RAIN, SLEET, OR ANY WEATHER OF ANY KIND, AT STONE SOUP CAFÉ IN GREENFIELD ON SATURDAYS, YOU CAN FIND KYRSTEN LEAVETT.

>> YES, BOILING!

>> IN THE KITCHEN MAKING LUNCH.

>> EVERYTHING HERE IS LIKE A DANCE.

>> LEAVETT IS EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND HEAD CHEF.

>> 70 PEOPLE THAT ARE READY TO LIKE DO SHOPPING ON THE MUSHROOMS BECAUSE I WANT THAT LIQUID, TOO.

>> OF THE PAY WHAT YOU CAN STYLE RESTAURANT SITUATED INSIDE THE ALL SOULS UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST CHURCH.

>> WE ARE NOT A SOUP KITCHEN.

THIS IS A MEAL FOR EVERYBODY.

WE BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD ACCESS THE MEAL.

AND THOSE WHO CAN PAY SHOULD.

IF THEY.

AND THOSE WHO CAN'T ARE WELCOME TO PARTICULAR OF THE DELICIOUS RESTAURANT-QUALITY FOOD.

>> ON THIS PARTICULAR SATURDAY, WHERE THE MENU CELEBRATES THE LUNAR NEW YEAR -- >> I AM HERE ALONE BECAUSE I'VE SENT EVERYBODY OUT THERE.

>> -- IS THE CAFÉ'S BUSIEST AND MOST POPULAR.

>> TODAY WE ARE GOING TO DO CLOSE TO 500.

>> WITH 500 MEALS TO SERVE, THE CLOCK IS ALWAYS TICKING.

>> WE WILL ADD ALL OF THE STIR FRIED VEGETABLES TO THIS.

>> AND LEAVETT'S TEAM OF VOLUNTEERS ARE MOVING FAST.

>> THERE'S LIKE A BIG HUSTLE THAT STARTS ALL AT ONCE.

AND EVERYONE KIND OF SNAPS INTO ACTION.

>> STONE SOUP CAFÉ CERTAINLY ISN'T IMMUNE TO THE FINANCIAL REPERCUSSIONS OF THE PANDEMIC AS RESTAURANTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY CLOSE EITHER PERMANENTLY OR TEMPORARILY THIS PAY WHAT YOU CAN CAFÉ HAS FOUND A WAY TO STAY OPEN.

AND IT'S MORE IMPORTANT NOW THAN EVER WITH FOOD INSECURITY INCREASING, THEY'RE ABLE TO SERVE RESIDENTS HERE IN GREENFIELD AND THE SURROUNDING TOWNS ACROSS FRANKLIN COUNTY.

>> WE PIVOTED VERY QUICKLY.

WE IMMEDIATELY RESPONDED TO THE COMMUNITY'S NEEDS.

PEOPLE SAW US STEP UP AND RESPOND.

AND THAT WAS A REALLY BIG DEAL.

>> BIG ENOUGH THAT BETWEEN VARIOUS COVID RELIEF GRANTS AND COMMUNITY DONATIONS, STONE SOUP HAS KEPT UP AS THE CAFÉ'S BUDGET DOUBLED TO A QUARTER MILLION DOLLARS WITHIN THE LAST YEAR.

BUT EVERY DOLLAR GOES BACK INTO THE FOOD.

FOR MORE VEGETABLES.

MORE NOODLES, AND MORE TO-GO BOXES.

>> IS THIS GOING OVER TO LISA?

>> THE PANDEMIC FORCING THE CAÉE TO RETHINK HOW IT SERVES ITS GROWING LINES.

NOW WAITING OUTSIDE.

>> THIS PROCESS THERE'S ABOUT SEVEN PEOPLE ON THE LINE.

AND WE HAVE TWO PEOPLE PACKING MEALS, TWO PEOPLE HANDING OUT MEALS, AND WE HAVE FOUR PEOPLE ON THE LINE TAKING ORDERS.

>> YOU WANT SOME CEREAL TO GO?

>> THE CAFÉ ALSO RUNS A FOOD PANTRY WHICH IS STOCKED WEEKLY.

>> EXCELLENT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YEAH.

NICE TO SEE YOU.

>> NO ONE LEAVES WITHOUT A MEAL.

EVEN WHEN THEY CAN'T BE FOUND.

>> AMY!

LOOKING FOR JONATHAN.

DID WE SEE WHERE HE RAN OFF TO?

HE'S USUALLY WAITING ACROSS THE STREET.

>> AND IF YOU CAN'T COME TO THE CAFÉ, THE CAFÉ WILL COME TO YOU.

VOLUNTEERS LIKE SHANNON PRESCOTT AND HER DAUGHTERS LAILA AND AMELIA ARE PILOTING STONE SOUP'S NEW DELIVERY SERVICE.

>> STONE SOUP.

YOU'RE WELCOME.

ENJOY.

THANKS.

>> WHEN THE PANDEMIC HIT, THE VERY FIRST THING WE KNEW WAS WHAT PEOPLE NEEDED DELIVERED MEALS.

SO WE OPENED UP THAT WHOLE NEW PROGRAM.

>> AS STONE SOUP CONTINUES TO ADAPT TO LIFE DURING AND AFTER COVID, LEAVITT SAYS THEY'RE NOW THINKING LONG-TERM.

>> SO THAT'S GOING TO BE FOR SOUP.

>> SHE DOESN'T SEE THE DEMAND FOR MEALS GOING DOWN ANY TIME SOON.

>> IN RURAL FRANKLIN COUNTY, THE ECONOMIC HIT FROM ALL OF THE UNEMPLOYMENT, FROM THE CHANGES THAT THE PANDEMIC WROUGHT, THE RECOVERY FROM THAT WILL TAKE LONGER.

>>> ACCORDING TO THE INNOCENCE PROJECT, IN 2017, BAD EYEWITNESS ITEM CONTRIBUTED TO 70% OF WRONGFUL CONNECTIONS LATER OVERTURNED IN THE UNITED STATES BY DNA EVIDENCE.

THIS SUNDAY, MARCH 7th, NEW ENGLAND PUBLIC MEDIA PRESENTS A 30-MINUTE SPECIAL AT SIX O'CLOCK P.M. ON WFCR 88.5-FM ENTITLED "QUESTIONING THE WITNESS."

IN IT REPORTER KAREN BROWN LOOKS AT THE EVOLVING SCIENCE OF EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY AND SHARES THE PERSONAL STORIES OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN CONVICTED WITH LITTLE TO KNOW EVIDENCE OTHER THAN AN EYEWITNESS REPORT.

I SPOKE WITH HER RECENTLY TO LEARN MORE.

>> WELL, THE BASIS IS THE SCIENCE OF EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY.

AND HOW THE SCIENCE HAS EVOLVED OVER THE YEARS TO CAST MORE DOUBT ON WHETHER EYEWITNESSES REALLY ARE THE END ALL AND BE ALL OF TRIALS AND WHETHER THEY SHOULD HAVE AS MUCH SWAY AS THEY ACTUALLY DO IN CONVICTING PEOPLE.

AND I HAVE TALKED TO A NUMBER OF PEOPLE IN MASSACHUSETTS WHO ARE EITHER IN JAIL OR WERE IN JAIL.

THEY BELIEVE BECAUSE OF FAULTY EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY.

AND SINCE I AM A SCIENCE REPORTER, AS WELL AS SOMEONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN INCARCERATEDDION AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE, I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA TO SORT OF MELD ALL OF THOSE ISSUES TOGETHER AND LOOK AND SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW AND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE PAST.

>> AS I WAS LISTENING TO THE SERIES, ONE THING THAT WAS PARTICULARLY ALARMING FOR ME WAS THAT A LOT OF THE STORIES YOU SHARED WERE LOCAL STORIES.

AND IT WAS TERRIFYING THAT THESE PEOPLE WERE CONVICTED OF A CRIME JUST REALLY BASED OFF OF AN EYEWITNESS REPORT, VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE.

WHAT WERE SOME OF THE SHOCKING THINGS THAT YOU LEARNED ALONG THE WAY WHILE DOING THIS PROJECT?

>> I MEAN, THAT IN ITSELF WAS SHOCKING TO ME THAT YOU CAN JUST HAVE ONE OR TWO REGULAR FOLKS WHO THINK THEY SAW SOMETHING, AND THAT BECOMES THE ENTIRE CASE.

I HAD THIS IDEA THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO SEND SOMEONE TO PRISON FOR LIFE, YOU HAVE REALLY AIRTIGHT EVIDENCE.

AND I THINK THAT HAS IMPROVED OVER THE YEARS BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE, WERE CONVICTED THREE DECADES AGO, AND WHEN YOU LOOK THROUGH THE TRIAL EVIDENCE, IT JUST SEEMS SO FLIMSY.

AND YOU JUST THINK, HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

BECAUSE I KNOW FOR ME, THE IDEA OF BEING LOCKED UP FOR SOMETHING, EVEN FOR SOMETHING I DID, MUCH LESS FOR SOMETHING I DIDN'T DO, IS A REAL NIGHTMARE.

AND YOU JUST WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THERE'S MORE EVIDENCE.

AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT PEOPLE WERE CONVICTING THEM THROUGH BAD MOTIVES.

BUT THEY JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE SAYS, I'M ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE THAT'S THE GUY, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE RIGHT.

>> AND ONE OF THE STORIES THAT YOU SHARED THAT STUCK WITH ME WAS THAT OF JAMES WATSON, WHO WAS RELEASED LAST YEAR AFTER 41 YEARS IN PRISON.

AND ONE THING THAT HE SAID WAS EVEN TODAY HE DOESN'T FEEL LIKE THE JUSTICE SYSTEM IS ANY BETTER.

AND HE STILL WORRIES ABOUT BEING WRONGFULLY CONVICTED.

BASED ON YOUR RESEARCH, DO YOU THINK THAT HE'S CORRECT FOR THINKING THE WAY THAT HE IS, THAT HE DOES?

>> I THINK ANYONE'S CORRECT FOR HAVING FEELINGS AND CONCERNS.

AND CERTAINLY HIS EXPERIENCE IS SUCH THAT THERE WASN'T MUCH EVIDENCE THAT PUT HIM IN JAIL FOR A LONG, LONG TIMING.

SO I ASKED HIM SPECIFICALLY, DO YOU THINK THE SYSTEM IS BETTER NOW?

AND HE JUST -- HE'S BEEN IN PRISON ALL THIS TIME BUT HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY REASON TO BELIEVE IT.

AND OVER THE LAST YEAR AND, OF COURSE, MANY YEARS, WE HAVE SEEN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM SEVERELY FLAWED.

AND MANY PEOPLE ARE PUNISHED FOR THINGS THEY SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED FOR TO AN EXTREME THAT THEY SHOULD NOT BE PUNISHED FOR.

SO I DON'T BLAME SOMEONE WHO FEELS LIKE THEY WERE WRONGED AND DOESN'T NECESSARILY ASSUME THAT EVERYTHING IS PEACHY AND WORKED OUT AT THE MOMENT.

>> AND THERE WAS ANOTHER STORY THAT YOU SHARE WITH VIA AND THE FACT THAT HE WAS ABLE TO BE CONVICTED WITH -- WITHOUT EVEN HAVING A CRAIG BACKGROUND WAS ALARMING FOR ME AS WELL.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HIS STORY.

>> REMONSON RECOVER VIA, HE WAS CONVICTED ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO FOR A HOME INVASION.

HIS LAWYERS IS ACTUALLY THE FIRST PERSON I TALKED TO WHEN I STARTED TO GET INTERESTED IN, DID I WANT TO DO A STORY ABOUT HIS CASE IN PARTICULAR?

AND I DECIDED ACTUALLY I THOUGHT THE ISSUES IN HIS CASE WARRANTED A BROADER LOOK.

BUT HIS LAWYER SAYS THAT HE WAS CONVICTED MOSTLY ON THE BASIS OF TWO EYEWITNESSES WHO WERE NOT HANDLED IN THE WAY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE BY THE POLICE.

THEY WERE ALLOWED TO BE TOGETHER IN THE BACK OF A CRUISER WHEN THEY IDENTIFIED HIM.

AND HE WAS IN HANDCUFFS WHEN THEY IDENTIFIED HIM AGAIN.

SO THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT KIND OF GO AGAINST WHAT THE SCIENCE SAYS YOU SHOULD DO.

THE POLICE SHOULD DO TO MAKE SURE AN EYEWITNESS IDENTIFICATION IS RELIABLE AND IT WASN'T DONE SO HE'S NOW LOOKING AT ABOUT 20 YEARS.

AGAIN, I DON'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION ABOUT WHO'S GUILTY AND WHO'S NOT GUILTY BUT IF YOU JUST LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE THAT IS PRESENTED, YOU CAN GET A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF HOW MUCH EVIDENCE IS NEEDED TO CONVICT SOMEBODY.

AND SOMETIMES IT IS VERY MUCH DOMINATED BY EYEWITNESS EVIDENCE.

>> AND THE INNOCENCE PROJECT THAT WAS FEATURED IN THE SERIES HAS FOUND THAT 70% OF WRONGFUL CONVICTIONS WERE THE RESULT OF BAD EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY.

DO YOU THINK THAT PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE IN MASSACHUSETTS TO IMPROVE THE ACCURACY OF THESE TYPES OF REPORTS?

>> MOST OF THE LAWYERS AND DEFENSE ATTORNEYS AND EXPERTS, AND POLICE OFFICERS, TELL ME THEY DO THINK THAT IT'S GOTTEN BETTER.

THAT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME COURT RULINGS AND SOME NATIONAL REPORTS AND SOME STATE REPORTS THAT REALLY TALK ABOUT THE SCIENCE OF MEMORY.

AND REALLY PUSH FOR INSTRUCTING JURORS IN THE COURTROOM.

THAT EVEN IF SOMEBODY SAYS I'M ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE, I SAW THIS PERSON, THAT'S NOT EVIDENCE THAT THEY'RE CORRECT.

THAT CONFIDENCE LEVELS ARE NOT NECESSARILY COMMENSURATE WITH ACCURACY.

OR THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE CONDITION OF THE WITNESS.

AND WERE THEY IMPAIRED IN SOME WAY?

AND ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THAT DEFINITELY HAS IMPROVED, PEOPLE HAVE TOLD ME.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT CASES DON'T FALL THROUGH THE CRACKS.

AND THAT ALSO DOES NOT APPLY TO PEOPLE WHO WERE CONVICTED BEFORE THESE RULINGS CAME OUT.

>> RESEARCHING ON THESE TYPES OF STORIES CAN BE VERY INTENSE AND TAKE A TOLL EMOTIONALLY.

HOW WAS IT FOR YOU TO HEAR ALL OF THESE STORIES FOR THIS PROJECT?

>> I MEAN, IT WAS VERY CONCERNING AND SAD, ESPECIALLY -- I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO TALK TO MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN PRISON BUT THAT'S VERY COMPLICATED.

ESPECIALLY RIGHT NOW.

TALKING TO JAMES WATSON WAS, ON THE ONE HAND, IT WAS VERY JOYFUL BECAUSE HE WAS OUT OF PRISON.

BUT HE LOST SO MANY YEARS.

AND HE REALLY TRIES TO HAVE VERY POSITIVE ATTITUDE.

BUT IT'S HARD NOT TO FEEL TERRIBLE.

AND I'VE DONE INTERVIEWS IN THE PAST WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN WRONGFULLY INCARCERATED AND I'VE ALWAYS BEEN STUNNED AT HOW POSITIVE AN ATTITUDE THEY SEEM TO HAVE.

THEY ARE VERY MUCH RELIEVED AND THEY'RE VERY MUCH TRYING NOT TO BE BITTER.

BUT OF COURSE THEY'RE STILL ANGRY AT ALL THEY LOST.

>> WHAT WAS YOUR BIGGEST TAKEAWAY AFTER COMPLETING THIS PROJECT?

>> IT'S INTERESTING TO ME THAT SCIENCE AND THE LAW ARE NOT BETTER INTEGRATED.

CERTAIN CORE PRINCIPLES THAT PEOPLE WHO STUDY CRIMINAL JUSTICE AND STUDY MEMORY THAT ARE SO CLEAR TO THEM, THEY SIMPLY, THEY'RE NOT IN LAW SCHOOLS LIKE LAWYERS ARE NOT TAUGHT TO UNDERSTAND THE PRINCIPLES OF EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY.

AT LEAST NOT IN MANY LAW SCHOOLS.

POLICE ARE NOT NECESSARILY TRAINED IN THAT WAY.

ALTHOUGH THAT IS CHANGING.

AND I INTERVIEWED ONE POLICE CHIEF WHO GOES AROUND DOING THOSE TRAININGS.

BUT I JUST WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE MORE OF A CHECKING IN FROM THE COURTS, LIKE WHAT ARE WE MISSING?

AND IT JUST GENERALLY DOESN'T HAPPEN THAT WAY.

>>> THAT DOES IT FOR "CONNECTING POINT" FOR MARCH 5th, 2021.

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