♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> IT IS ON HAMAS TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT IS PREPARED TO ENGAGE IN THAT CEASEFIRE.

>> THE U.S.

STRUGGLES TO GET A CEASEFIRE DEAL BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS AS THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY SEEKS A LEADERSHIP REBOOT FOR THE DAY AFTER.

CARETAKER PRIME MINISTER JOINS ME FOR HIS FIRST INTERVIEW SINCE RESIGNING.

>>> PLUS, THE U.N.

GOES PUBLIC WITH ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL ASSAULT OF ISRAELI HOSTAGES.

>>> ANDES SEPARATION MOVES.

FOREIGN NATIONS DROP MORE AID INTO BESIEGED GAZA AS AGENCIES WARN OF EXTREME CHILD MALNUTRITION.

I SPEAK TO TWO JOURNALISTS ABOUT WHAT'S BEING REPORTED IN ARAB AND ISRAELI MEDIA.

ALSO AHEAD.

>> I THINK NIKKI HALEY VOTERS ARE THE BIGGEST WILD CARD OF THIS ELECTION.

>> IT'S SUPER TUESDAY, THE MOST IMPORTANT DAY OF THE PRIMARY SEASON.

"NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER MARCELA VALDES TALKING TO HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT THE AMBIVALENT VOTER WHO MIGHT BE SITTING THIS ONE OUT.

>>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

THE PROSPECT OF ANY RAPID CEASEFIRE BETWEEN ISRAEL AND HAMAS SEEMS TO BE DWINDLING.

ISRAEL IS NOT ATTENDING TALKS IN CAIRO.

HAMAS SAYS IT CAN'T MEET ISRAEL'S DEMAND FOR A LIST OF HOSTAGES, SAYING IT DOESN'T KNOW THE FATE OR LOCATION OF MANY OF THEM.

HERE IS U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN WITH THE QATARI PRIME MINISTER, A KEY MEDIATOR, IN WASHINGTON EARLIER TODAY.

>> AND HERE WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AN IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE THAT CAN BRING HOSTAGES HOME, THAT CAN DRAMATICALLY INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE GETTING INTO PALESTINIANS WHO SO DESPERATELY NEED IT, AND CAN ALSO SET THE CONDITIONS FOR AN ENDURING RESOLUTION.

AND IT IS ON HAMAS TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER IT IS PREPARED TO ENGAGE IN THAT CEASEFIRE.

>> AND ISRAEL HAS SAID THAT IF THERE ISN'T A DEAL REACHED BY THE START OF RAMADAN LATE THIS WEEKEND, THEY WILL LAUNCH THEIR OFFENSIVE INTO RAFAH, WHERE OVER A MILLION PALESTINIANS ARE SHELTERING WHILE THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA IS WORSENING EVERY DAY.

THE QUESTION OF THE DAY AFTER ALSO LOOMS.

THE UNITED STATES IS PUSHING FOR A REVITALIZATION OF THE BELEAGUERED PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.

CARETAKER PRIME MINISTER AFTER FORMALLY RESIGNING LAST WEEK, AND HE IS JOINING ME FOR HIS FIRST INTERVIEW THEN.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM FROM RAMALLAH IN THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK.

CAN I FIRST ASK YOU TO TELL US WHY YOU TOOK THIS STEP OF RESIGNING, YOU AND YOUR GOVERNMENT.

>> FOR A FEW REASONS.

ONE, THIS GOVERNMENT HAS BEEN THERE FOR FIVE YEARS.

THE SECOND, PALESTINIAN FACTIONS WERE INVITED TO MOSCOW.

15 OF THEM WERE THERE.

OUR GOVERNMENT HAS ONLY FIVE FACTIONS, AND WE WANTED TO HAVE AN ADVANCE PAYMENT FOR THE PALESTINIAN FACTIONS TO COME IN A UNIFIED POSITION SO THAT ALL PALESTINIANS WILL BE PART OF THE AFTER AND TOMORROW.

THE THIRD IMPORTANT ISSUE IS THAT THERE ARE NEW EMERGING REALITIES THAT HAS TO DO WITH GAZA, AND THIS IS A DOOR OPENING FOR THE PALESTINIANS TO COME TOGETHER AGAIN SO THAT A PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY WILL BE IN CHARGE OF ALL PALESTINIAN TERRITORY, JERUSALEM, GAZA, AND THE WEST BANK.

>> CAN I -- YOU SORT OF EXPLAINED IT, BUT I WANT TO MAYBE DELVE DOWN A LITTLE MORE ON SOME OF THE PARTICULARS.

BECAUSE IN YOUR RESIGNATION STATEMENT, YOU SAID "THE UPCOMING PHASE AND ITS CHALLENGES NECESSITATES NEW GOVERNMENT AND POLITICAL ARRANGEMENTS, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THE EVOLVING SITUATION IN GAZA, NATIONAL UNITY DISCUSSIONS, THE URGENT NEED FOR PALESTINIAN CONSENSUS BASED ON NATIONAL UNITY, BROAD PARTICIPATION, SOLIDARITY, AND AN EXTENSION OF AUTHORITY OVER ALL OF PALESTINE."

SO WHAT DO THESE ARRANGEMENTS LOOK LIKE?

AND WHO WILL BE THE LEADER?

>> WELL, IT ALL DEPENDS ON THE OUTCOME OF THE TALKS THERE HAVE BEEN THESE TALKS IN MOSCOW, AS I HAVE MENTIONED, AND IT HAS NOT YET BEEN CONCLUDED.

THERE ARE CERTAIN PREREQUISITES FOR HAMAS AND OTHER POLITICAL FACTIONS TO BE PART OF PALESTINE AND THE POLITICAL ARENA, AND THESE ARE STILL BEING UNDER DISCUSSION.

THERE WILL BE A FOLLOW-UP MEETING AFTER MOSCOW.

OUR PRESIDENT TODAY IS IN TURKEY DISCUSSING WITH THE TURKISH PRESIDENT AND OTHERS IN ORDER FOR US TO REALLY REACH A CONSENSUS.

AND AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID, AND YOU QUOTED ME CORRECTLY IN MY RESIGNATION, BECAUSE SIMPLY WE WANTED A GOVERNMENT TO BE IN CHARGE OF ALL PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES.

THE PROBLEM IS THERE ARE CERTAIN QUESTIONS THAT HAS NO ANSWERS YET.

ONE IS HOW LONG ISRAEL IS GOING TO STAY OCCUPYING GAZA.

AND THE OTHER WAS SORT OF HAMAS WE WILL HAVE ON THE DAY AFTER.

BY ALL MEANS THE PALESTINIANS, THEY NEED TO BE UNITED.

AND IS A SITUATION IN WHICH THE NEW EMERGING REALITY NEED TO BE LOOKED AT IN ORDER FOR US TO REALLY FACE THE CHALLENGES THAT ARE AHEAD OF US.

REMEMBER ONE THING, THE CHALLENGES ARE VERY SERIOUS THAT WE WILL HAVE A VERY SERIOUS SITUATION.

13,000 TO 15,000 ORPHANS, 281,000 HOUSING UNITS DESTROYED, 30,000 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED.

70,000 HAVE BEEN INJURED.

TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER IN ORDER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO FACE THE SITUATION THAT WILL BE FACING US THE MOMENT WE TAKE OVER GAZA, THE MOMENT THIS WILL HAPPEN.

>> PRIME MINISTER, THAT IS WHAT EVERYBODY IS LOOKING AT.

I WANT TO JUST PICK UP ON A COUPLE OF THINGS YOU SAID.

YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, 30,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED IN GAZA.

THAT COMES FROM THE GAZA HEALTH MINISTRY.

AND IT DOES SEEM TO DOVETAIL WITH THE ISRAELI FIGURES AS WELL, BECAUSE ISRAEL CLAIMS TO HAVE KILLED SOME 10,000 HAMAS FIGHTERS, AND THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY THERE, OR RATHER THE HEALTH AUTHORITIES SAY THAT 70 ODD% OF THE KILLED ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

SO THOSE ARE ROUGHLY THE SAME KIND OF FIGURES FROM BOTH ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN HEALTH AUTHORITY.

BUT WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU IS THIS.

TO REACT TO "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" REPORT FROM LAST WEEK, WHICH SAYS THAT THE HAMAS LEADER WHO ISRAEL BLAMES FOR OCTOBER 7th, YAHYA SINWAR, HIS GOAL IS FOR, QUOTE, HAMAS TO EMERGE FROM THE RUBBLE OF GAZA AFTER THE WAR, DECLARE A HISTORIC VICTORY BY OUTLASTING ISRAEL'S FIREPOWER, AND CLAIM THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PALESTINIAN NATIONAL CAUSE.

DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S A VIABLE POSSIBILITY?

>> WELL, LET'S GO BACK TO YOUR INITIAL QUESTION, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT.

THE NUMBERS THAT YOU HAVE QUOTED, IT SHOWS THAT ISRAEL IS COMMITTING SERIOUS GENOCIDE AGAINST OUR PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW, WHAT ISRAEL HAS ACHIEVED UNTIL NOW IS ONLY A TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF GAZA.

ISRAEL DID NOT RELEASE THE HOSTAGES.

ISRAEL DID NOT DO THIS AND THAT.

THE GOALS THAT THEY HAVE SET FOR THEMSELVES.

ONE THING THAT ISRAEL HAS ACHIEVED, TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF GAZA.

ACCORDING TO SATELLITE IMAGES THAT WE HAVE SEEN THROUGH THE WORLD BANK, EUROPEAN UNION, UNITED NATION, 45% OF GAZA HAS BEEN DESTROYED.

AND AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID, 30,000 PALESTINIANS, 75% OF THEM ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

THAT'S NOT WHAT I AM SAYING.

THAT IS WHAT UNITED NATION IS SAYING.

THAT IS WHAT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE OF UNITED STATES HAS SAID TO THE CONGRESS.

SO THE ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT ISRAEL HAS KILLED TENS OF THOUSAND OF HAMAS ACTIVISTS.

THOSE WHO ARE THE VICTIMS ARE INNOCENT PEOPLE.

THE VICTIMS ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN, AND THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN PUT TO STARVE.

THIS IS A REAL GENOCIDE THAT ISRAEL IS COMMITTING IN GAZA.

SO FOR WHATEVER THE HAMAS' STATEMENT IS GOING TO SAY, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN THERE IS A TOTAL DESTRUCTION.

AND STILL ISRAEL IS TRYING TO FORCE TRANSFER OUR PEOPLE OUT OF RAFA.

1.4 MILLION PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SQUEEZED INTO A LITTLE TINY GEOGRAPHY THAT IS CALLED RAFAH THAT IS THE REAL ISSUE.

REGARDLESS WHAT THE STATEMENT INTERESTS THIS PERSON OR NOT.

MY MAIN CONCERN TODAY IS THERE HAS TO BE AN IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE.

THIS KILLING SHOULD STOP.

GAZA TODAY IS A KILLING FIELD.

ISRAEL IS ACTING IN THE MODE OF REVENGE.

YOU CANNOT IMAGINE THE SITUATION THAT PEOPLE, 150 DAYS THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN STARVING.

TODAY UNITED STATES AND OTHER COUNTRIES HAVE BEEN DROPPING INTERNATIONAL AID AND DROPPING AID INTO NORTH OF GAZA.

HOW IT IS POSSIBLE THAT YOU DROP AID AT THE SAME TIME YOU ARE ALLOWING ISRAEL TO DROP BOMBS ON GAZA?

AID AND BOMBS DON'T WALK HAND IN HAND THAT IS WHAT THE REALITY.

THIS IS THE UGLY REALITY ABOUT GAZA.

THIS WAR HAS TO STOP.

THIS AGGRESSION HAS TO STOP.

AND THEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT STATEMENTS, WHO IS GOING TO BE VICTORIOUS.

NOBODY IS GOING TO BE VICTORIOUS IN GAZA.

GAZA IS A REAL DISASTER.

NOBODY IS GOING TO CLAIM THAT HE IS VICTORIOUS.

GAZA HAS LOST ITS MORALS.

GAZA IS NOW STANDING AS A CRIMINAL IN FRONT OF INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT.

GAZA IS NOW STANDING ACCUSED OF INTERNATIONAL COURT OF JUSTICE THAT IS COMMITTING GENOCIDE.

SO WHO IS GOING TO BE WINNING IN GAZA?

NOBODY.

THE PEOPLE OF GAZA ARE THE ONES WHO ARE LOSING.

OUR CAUSE IS LOSING, AND OUR PEOPLE ARE BEING VICTIMS.

AND EVERYBODY SP GOING TO BE DESTROYED OUT OF THIS ISSUE OF GAZA.

>> LET ME TRY TO BRING IT BACK CLEARLY THE WORLD IS WATCHING WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, AND THERE IS A LOT OF EFFORT TO STOP THIS.

BUT EVERYBODY IS ALSO LOOKING FOR WHAT HAPPENS OUT OF THIS DISASTER, OUT OF THIS RUBBLE.

AND I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU, AGAIN, ACCORDING TO "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL," PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MEETING HAMAS LEADERSHIP IN DOHA, THEY BASICALLY REPORT A MESSAGE THAT YAHYA SINWAR SENT TO THAT MEETING SAYING THAT HAMAS FIGHTERS WERE READY FOR AN EXPECTED ISRAELI ASSAULT ON RAFAH, AND THAT, QUOTE, HIGH CIVILIAN CASUALTIES WOULD ADD TO THE WORLDWIDE PRESSURE ON ISRAEL TO STOP THE WAR.

THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY CYNICAL AND CRUEL VIEW FROM PEOPLE WHO CLAIM THE MORAL LEADERSHIP OF THE PALESTINIAN CAUSE.

YOU HAVE SAID YOUR CAUSE IS IN DANGER.

SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENS.

HOW DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE DAY AFTER?

WHO WILL BE THE LEADERSHIP?

HOW DOES -- HOW DO YOU DISCUSS THAT?

WHERE ARE THE RED LINES, IF ANY?

>> WELL, THE DAY AFTER SHOULD NOT BE ONLY FOR GAZA.

THE DAY AFTER SHOULD BE FOR ALL THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES.

TODAY THERE IS AN UNFORTUNATELY WITH ALL THIS BLOODSHED THAT IS THERE IN GAZA, THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP IS ONE, SINGULAR ONE THAT IS LEGITIMATE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP REPRESENTED BY THE PALESTINE LIBERATION ORGANIZATION.

THIS IS NOW HAMAS HAS DECLARED THAT THEY ARE READY TO BE PART OF THIS.

AND WE WELCOME THAT BASED UPON THE POLITICAL PLATFORM OF THE PALESTINE LIBERATION ORGANIZATION, ONE.

SECOND, THE DAY AFTER, AS I SAID, MAYBE IT'S TOO EARLY TO THINK OF THE DAY AFTER, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW HOW LONG ISRAEL IS GOING TO STAY THERE.

NETANYAHU, THE PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL, HE IS INTENDING TO KEEP THIS WAR GOING AS LONG AS IT IS POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO KEEP SECURING HIS SEAT AS PRIME MINISTER.

THERE ARE SOME POLITICAL INITIATIVES.

THERE ARE FOUR IDEAS THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE DAY AFTER.

THE ARABS ARE LED BY SAUDI ARABIA AS COMING WITH A VERY GOOD INITIATIVE WITH VERY GOOD POINTS THAT DOES ADDRESS THE TOTALITY OF THE PALESTINIAN ISSUE THAT HAS TO DO WITH THE CREATION AND MANIFESTATION OVER TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

BUT A PALESTINIAN STATE ON THE BORDER OF 1967.

THAT'S ONE.

THE BRITISH IDEA DOES CALL FOR A RETURN TO NEGOTIATIONS.

THIS SP SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY NONSENSE.

WE HAVE BEEN IN NEGOTIATIONS FOR 33 YEARS.

NOW WE NEED TO GO TO OUR SITUATION IN WHICH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY DOES RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF PALESTINE.

THE THIRD IDEAS THAT ARE THERE BY THE EUROPEANS, THE SPANIARDS AND THE EUROPEAN UNION.

AND WE WELCOME THE EUROPEAN UNION INITIATIVE, BECAUSE IT IS IMPORTANT CALLING FOR AN INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE.

AND THE FOURTH HAS TO DO WITH SOME IDEAS THAT ARE NOT MATURE YET BY THE UNITED STATES.

THE UNITED STATES IS CALLING FOR DOING SOMETHING OR TRYING TO DO SOMETHING BEFORE END OF THE YEAR.

THAT SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IS IT.

AND HOW, WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE.

WHAT WE WANT FROM THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS ONE THING.

TODAY I SAY THERE IS UNFORTUNATELY THAT WE PUT AN END TO THIS ATROCITIES.

THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT WE PUT AN END TO THE SUFFERING OF THE PALESTINIANS.

THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY THAT WE MANIFEST A PALESTINIAN STATE THAT IS SUFFERING CONTIGUOUS ON THE BORDERS OF 1967.

THAT IS WHAT WE CARE FOR.

AND THAT IS WHAT THE DAY AFTER SHOULD LOOK LIKE.

IF YOU ASK ME ARE WE READY?

YES, WE ARE.

DO WE HAVE A PLAN?

YES, WE DO.

ARE WE READY TO ENGAGE WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY?

YES, WE ARE READY AND WE ARE ENGAGING.

WE ARE ENGAGING WITH SAUDI ARABIA.

WE ARE ENGAGING WITH THE UNITED STATES.

WE ARE ENGAGING WITH EUROPE, AND WE WANT THIS OPPORTUNITY NOT TO BE MISSED.

TODAY WE HAVE 100,000 PALESTINIAN -- AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID, 30,000 OF THEM HAVE BEEN KILLED AND 70,000 HAVE BEEN INJURED.

REMEMBER ONE THING.

THERE IS NO MEDICAL TREATMENT, THERE IS NO FOOD.

THERE IS STARVATION.

ISRAEL IS USING INTERNATIONAL AID AS A STRATEGIC WEAPON TO SERVE ITS GOALS, TRY TO PUSH PEOPLE OUT OF GAZA.

SO HERE, AS AGAIN, IT'S IMPORTANT TO FOCUS ON WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE IN THE WEST BANK.

780,000 JEWISH SETTLERS ARE ILLEGALLY HERE PLANTED BY THE ISRAELI COLONIAL REGIME.

SETTLERS ARE ARMED.

SETTLERS ARE USING TERRORIST ACTS AGAINST OUR PEOPLE.

32 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN KILLED AT THE HANDS OF THE SETTLERS.

SETTLERS ARE BUILDING SETTLEMENTS EVERY DAY.

THE INTENSIFICATION OF THE COLONIZATION PROGRAM HAS INCREASED BY 431% DURING THE TERM OF NETANYAHU.

SO WHY THINGS ARE AND THE GENOCIDE THAT ISRAEL IS COMMITTING IN GAZA, THERE IS ALSO ANOTHER WAR HERE IN THE WEST BANK THROUGH THE SETTLEMENT.

ISRAEL HAS PLANTED IN THE WEST BANK.

THE TOWN, 60,000 PEOPLE IS CLOSED WITH ONE GATE, ONE SOLDIER CLOSING THE WHOLE GATE.

SO PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING.

THE DAY AFTER SHOULD BE ABOUT ONE THING.

END OCCUPATION, ESTABLISH AN INDEPENDENT SOVEREIGN VIABLE STATE OF PALESTINE THAT LIVE SIDE BY SIDE WITH THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

THAT IS WHAT WE WANT, AND THAT IS THE ONLY SOLUTION THAT IS VIABLE.

WE CANNOT AFFORD TO GO BACK TO NEGOTIATIONS AS CERTAIN CAPITALS HAVE BEEN PROPOSING.

>> OKAY.

AND I THINK YOU KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF SUPPORT FOR IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY FOR THE END OF THE WAR AND ALSO FOR A PROPER DAY AFTER SOLUTION, AND THE TWO-STATE SOLUTION APPEARS TO HAVE THE MOST TRACTION FROM YOUR FRIENDS AND OTHERS IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.

BUT WHAT I WANT TO ASK YOU IS THIS.

ALSO, THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY IS NOT EXACTLY BEING THE GREAT DELIVERER OF GREAT GOVERNANCE AND GREAT SUCCESS TO THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

YOU SAY IT IS THE ONLY LEGITIMATE -- THE LEADERSHIP OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE, THERE NEEDS TO BE A CONSENSUS.

BUT THERE IS SO MUCH, YOU KNOW, POLL NUMBERS OF MAHMOUD ABBAS, THE CORRUPTION OF THE MEMBERS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS, HOW YOU GOING TO REVITALIZE THAT?

WHAT IS YOUR PLAN TO MAKE YOUR ORGANIZATION, YOUR LEADERSHIP A FUNCTIONING, GOVERNING ORGANIZATION?

>> YES.

LOOK, CHRISTIANE, YOU HAVE BEEN INTERVIEWING ME FOR THE LAST FIVE, SIX YEARS.

YOU ALWAYS BRING THE SAME QUESTION.

>> BECAUSE IT'S AN HONEST QUESTION.

THERE HAS BEEN NO ELECTIONS.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN -- EXCUSE ME.

YES, YOU ARE RIGHT, NO ELECTIONS.

I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU.

I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU.

IT'S NOT BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT ELECTIONS.

IT'S BECAUSE ISRAEL -- >> OKAY, OKAY, OKAY.

I'M LITERALLY -- WE'VE BEEN AROUND THIS.

I WANT TO KNOW HOW YOU'RE GOING TO REVIVE WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN DOES, THE REVITALIZATION?

YOU JUST TELL YOUR PEOPLE HOW YOU WILL REVITALIZE.

>> I AM ANSWERING YOU.

>>> OKAY.

>> IT IS VERY SIMPLE.

REVITALIZATION OF THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY MEANS ONE THING.

ALLOW US TO FUNCTION.

THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY HAS BEEN UNDER SERIOUS WAR AND SERIOUS SIEGE.

THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY FACES, AS I TOLD YOU, 700 IN THE WEST BANK.

HOW CAN YOU FUNCTION WITH THAT?

THE SETTLER TERRORISM.

PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY HAS BEEN UNDER FINANCIAL SIEGE.

ISRAEL IS DEDUCTING 60% OF OUR TAXES.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO PAY SALARIES FOR THE LAST FOUR MONTHS.

HOW CAN YOU FUNCTION WITHOUT MONEY?

HOW CAN YOU FUNCTION WITHOUT SECURITY?

THE ISRAELI ARMY IS ENCOURAGING INTO OUR VILLAGES, INTO OUR TOWNS, INTO OUR REFUGEE CAMPS EVERY SINGLE NIGHT.

6,000 PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN ARRESTED SINCE OCTOBER 7.

THAT MEANS THE ISRAELI ARMY HAS AT ENTERED AT MIDNIGHT 6,000 HOUSES.

PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES SHOULD KNOW THAT THE PALESTINIANS ARE UNDER OCCUPATION, AND THIS OCCUPATION SHOULD END.

THE ISSUE IS NOT ABOUT REVITALIZATION OR NOT.

THE ISSUE IS ABOUT OCCUPATION THAT SHOULD END AND LEAVE THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE TO RUN THEIR OWN AFFAIRS WITH THEMSELVES AND ALLOW US TO HAVE OUR OWN ELECTIONS.

REMEMBER ONE THING.

AGAIN, YOU REPEATED THIS QUESTION EVERY NOW AND THEN.

LET ME ANSWER YOU FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL.

WE ARE DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE.

WE WANT ELECTIONS.

AND WE WANT ISRAEL NOT TO VETO OUR ELECTIONS BECAUSE ISRAEL WANTED US TO HAVE ELECTIONS IN ONE PART OF PALESTINE WITHOUT JERUSALEM.

AND WE SAID NO WAY WE ARE GOING TO SURRENDER JERUSALEM AS A FUTURE CAPITAL OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

SO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, THE UNITED STATES, EUROPE, THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN THE DEMOCRATIZATION OF SOCIETIES INCLUDING PALESTINE SHOULD EXERT EVERY PRESSURE ON ISRAEL NOT TO VETO OUR RIGHT TO ELECTION.

THAT IS THE REVITALIZATION OF THE AUTHORITY.

THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS.

>> THE LAST TIME YOU HAD ELECTIONS, HAMAS WON IN GAZA.

AND THIS IS NOW WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

SO MY QUESTION TO YOU, WHEN YOU NEXT HAVE ELECTIONS, WILL HAMAS WIN AGAIN?

>> WELL, I MEAN, DO YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU -- >> I WANT YOU TO TELL ME WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING.

>> AND THEN WHOEVER -- WELL, I WILL TELL YOU.

THE PEOPLE ARE THINKING THE FOLLOWING.

PEOPLE THERE WANT AN END OF OCCUPATION.

AND PEOPLE THERE WANT ELECTIONS TO TAKE PLACE.

AND NOW I AM TELLING YOU THAT THERE IS A SITUATION IN WHICH PEOPLE ARE REGRETFUL THE PALESTINE CAUSE HAS BEEN TAKEN TO FROM THE FRIDGE TO THE OVEN.

-- >> OKAY.

>> -- AND END OCCUPATION.

AND THAT IS WHAT WE WANT.

AND THE ELECTION SERIES ESSENTIAL AND IMPORTANT PART.

WHOEVER WINS THE ELECTION, WE WELCOME THAT.

WE ARE A DEMOCRATIC STRUCTURE.

PALESTINIAN LIBERATION -- >> WE GET IT.

>> -- SINCE 1969.

SO WE ARE.

WE BELIEVE IN IT AND WE WANT IT.

>> PRIME MINISTER, CARETAKER PRIME MINISTER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>> AND AS WE KNOW, THE SCALE OF THE HUMAN SUFFERING BOTH ON OCTOBER 7th AND AS WE'VE BEEN DISCUSSING IN THE MONTHS SINCE IN GAZA IS STAGGERING.

AFTER 1,200 ISRAELIS WERE KILLED AND 240 WERE KIDNAPPED, OVER 30,000 PEOPLE KILLED IN GAZA.

A LARGE PROPORTION OF THEM WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

WE KNOW ALL THIS, AND WE'VE JUST BEEN DISCUSSING IT.

WE'VE ALSO TALKED ABOUT THE AID AGENCIES, WHICH ARE WARNING OF EXTREME CHILD MALNUTRITION, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE IN THESE PICTURES.

THE REALITY IS DEVASTATING.

WHILE UNICEF REPORTS THAT OVER A THOUSAND CHILDREN HAVE HAD ONE OR BOTH LEGS AMPUTATED.

MEANTIME, INSIDE ISRAEL, THE WOUNDS OF OCTOBER 7th HAVE NOT HEALED AND OVER 100 HOSTAGES ARE STILL HELD INSIDE GAZA.

AND THIS WEEK, AFTER A VISIT TO ISRAEL AND THE WEST BANK, A U.N.

TEAM REPORTED, QUOTE, CONVINCING INFORMATION THAT HOSTAGES HAVE BEEN SEXUALLY ASSAULTED.

THEY ALSO FOUND REASONABLE GROUNDS TO BELIEVE THAT SEXUAL VIOLENCE WAS COMMITTED DURING THE HAMAS ATTACK.

AND THEY HEARD, QUOTE, CONCERNS RAISED OVER CRUEL, INHUMAN AND DEGRADING TREATMENT OF PALESTINIANS IN DETENTION, INCLUDING SEXUAL VIOLENCE.

SO WHAT DOES EACH SIDE KNOW OF THE OTHER'S DEEP WOUNDS AND ONGOING TRAUMA?

HOW DOES COVERAGE DIFFER IN ARAB AND ISRAELI MEDIA?

OREN PERSICO IS AN ISRAELI JOURNALIST FOR THE INVESTIGATIVE MAGAZINE "THE SEVENTH EYE."

AND DAHLIA HATUKA IS AN INDEPENDENT PALESTINIAN JOURNALIST.

THEY ARE BOTH JOINING ME NOW, AND WE'RE VERY GRATE TO FEEL YOU ON THE PROGRAM.

I'M NOT SURE WHETHER YOU WERE ABLE TO LISTEN TO THE CARETAKER PRIME MINISTER FROM RAMALLAH, BUT LET ME ASK YOU, OREN, FIRST.

WHEN YOU HEAR THAT AND YOU SEE WHAT'S GOING ON, AND THE PICTURES WE HAVE JUST BEEN AIRING AS WE INTRODUCED YOU, HOW MUCH OF THAN PERSPECTIVE IS THE ISRAELI PUBLIC SEEING OR HEARING?

>> WELL, VERY LITTLE, UNFORTUNATELY.

I THINK YOUR VIEWERS, EVEN IF THEY ARE THOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY, SEE MORE OF THOSE PICTURES THAN PEOPLE HERE IN TEL AVIV, WHICH IS A COUPLE OF HOURS' DRIVE FROM GAZA.

IT'S NOT JUST THE PERSPECTIVE.

IT'S JUST DATA.

IT'S INFORMATION.

IT'S NATURAL FOR A COUNTRY TO SHOW ITS PERSPECTIVE OF AN ONGOING WAR, BUT THE ISRAELI PUBLIC ALMOST DOESN'T HAVE ANY NUMBERS PRESENTED TO THEM, NOT TO MENTION HUMAN STORIES AND EMOTIONAL STORIES ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN GAZA.

>> AND WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS, OREN?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT AN OFFICIAL CENSORSHIP, IT'S SORT OF A SELF-CENSORSHIP.

I THINK MOST OF THE ISRAELI PUBLIC DOESN'T WANT TO KNOW, AND MOST OF THE ISRAELI MAINSTREAM MEDIA OUTLET, NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT MOST OF THEM DON'T WANT TO UPSET THE PUBLIC, AND ALSO FEEL THE SAME WAY.

I THINK THE FEELING IS THAT IF WE KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, THE TERRIBLE HUMAN COST OF THE PEOPLE IN GAZA, IF WE KNOW ABOUT THAT, IT WOULD MAYBE DISTINGUISH OR HURT THE WAR EFFORT.

IF WE FEEL MERCY FOR THE OTHER SIDE, WE MIGHT NOT BE AS UNITED AS WE SHOULD BE DURING THE TIME OF WAR.

I THINK THAT'S THE LOGIC.

>> DAHLIA HATUKA, CAN I TURN TO YOU, ALSO AN INDEPENDENT JOURNALIST.

WHAT IS YOUR MEDIA SHOWING?

BUT BASICALLY, HOW ARE YOU PROJECTING WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN COVERING THE WAR VERY INTENSIVELY.

I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING NOT ONLY PALESTINIAN JOURNALISTS WERE ON THE GROUND WHO HAVE BECOME SORT OF EVERYONE'S EYES AND EARS TO WHAT'S GOING ON IN GAZA, BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THE INTERNATIONAL MEDIA HAS BEEN FORBIDDEN BY ISRAELI AUTHORITIES FROM ACCESSING GAZA.

AND GAZA'S JOURNALISTS CONTINUE TO BEAR THE BURDEN OF REPORTING ON WHAT'S HAPPENING THERE UNTIL THE POINT THAT THEY NO LONGER CAN.

I THINK ALSO IN TERMS OF ISRAELI MEDIA, PALESTINIANS FOLLOW ISRAELI MEDIA VERY DILIGENTLY.

WE HAVE EXPERTS IN HEBREW-SPEAKING MEDIA COURTESY OF HAVING SPENT TIME IN ISRAELI JAILS.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AN ESTIMATED ONE MILLION PALESTINIANS WHO WERE ARRESTED SINCE ISRAEL OCCUPIED EAST JERUSALEM, THE GAZA STRIP AND THE WEST BANK IN '67.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE DEEPLY IMMERSED IN ISRAELI POLITICS.

PALESTINIANS FOLLOW ISRAELI TV SHOWS.

SO THERE IS THIS SORT OF UNREQUITED LOVE I WOULD SAY.

ISRAELIS COULD CARE LESS ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON WITH PALESTINIANS.

I DON'T THINK THEY'RE AS AFFECTED.

THEY DON'T FOLLOW PALESTINIAN MEDIA LIKE PALESTINIANS CONSUME ISRAELI MEDIA.

EVEN WHEN THERE ARE INVESTIGATIONS TO PUSH ISRAELIS TO THINK LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE PIECE IN THE E MAGAZINE 972 ABOUT ISRAELI AIR STRIKES ON NONMILITARY TARGETS AND THE USE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE TO DO SO.

IT'S THE PEOPLE ON THE OUTSIDE THAT ARE FOLLOWING, AND NOT NECESSARILY OR NOT NECESSARILY ORDINARY ISRAELIS.

>> SO BEFORE I TURN BACK TO OREN, I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS, BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THE WEST BANK ON OCTOBER 7th.

AND I WONDER WHAT YOU SAW ON YOUR TELEVISION AND IN YOUR MEDIA.

I KNOW WE'RE GOING BACK NOW TO THE BEGINNING OF THIS ON OCTOBER 7th.

WHAT DID YOU SEE ON YOUR TELEVISION?

WHAT WAS THE REACTION WITHIN GAZA?

BECAUSE THE PALESTINIAN CENTER FOR POLICY AND SURVEY RESEARCH RECENTLY PUBLISHED OVER 90% OF PALESTINIANS POLLED BELIEVE, QUOTE, THAT HAMAS DID NOT COMMIT THE ATROCIIES SEEN IN THE VIDEOS ON OCTOBER 7th.

SO WHAT IS YOUR SIDE SEEING OF THE ATROCITIES COMMITTED ON ISRAELIS THAT DAY?

>> I THINK THAT PALESTINIANS ARE SEEING OR HAVE SEEN OR DID SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON OCTOBER 7th.

THAT'S WHY FOR A LOT OF US WHEN WE WOKE UP THAT DAY, WE KNEW WHAT WAS COMING.

WE KNEW THAT A WAR WOULD BE COMING.

WE DIDN'T KNOW THE EXTENT OF IT.

WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT IT WOULD LEAD TO THE DEATH OF OR THE KILLING OF 30,000 PALESTINIANS.

AND SOME OF THE OTHER STATISTICS THAT YOU MENTIONED EARLIER.

THE THING THAT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT PALESTINIANS ARE NOT A MONOLITH.

SOME HAVE PRAISED WHAT'S HAPPENING, WHAT HAPPENED.

SOME HAVE CONDEMNED IT.

SOME WERE SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

IT'S HARD TO PAINT EVERY PALESTINIAN WITH BROAD BRUSH STROKES.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT HOW THE MEDIA PORTRAYED IT, ALMOST ALL HAVE SAID TO VARYING DEGREES THAT OCTOBER 7th WAS A RESULT OF DECADES OF SIEGE ON THE GAZA STRIP, THE HOME DEMOLITIONS, THE CONFISCATION OF LAND IN OCCUPIED EAST JERUSALEM, THE RISING DEATH TOLL IN THE WEST BANK, AND RAMPANT ISRAELI SETTLER VIOLENCE.

SOME MEDIA OUTLETS, ESPECIALLY THE ONES AFFILIATED WITH THE RULING PARTY IN THE WEST BANK TOOK A MORE NEUTRAL TONE, EXPRESSING THE NEED FOR ACHIEVING PEACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE TO EVERYONE LIVING THERE THE AREA, FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE -- WE NEED TO DISTINGUISH BASICALLY BETWEEN PALESTINIANS LIVING IN GAZA UNDER A SIEGE AND WAR IS VERY DIFFERENT THAN FOR THOSE -- EXCUSE ME, FOR THOSE OF US WHO LIVE IN THE WEST BANK, EAST JERUSALEM, AND ISRAEL PROPER.

>> OREN, WHAT DO YOU MAKE AS A JOURNALIST AND AS AN ISRAELI, AND WHAT DOES THE PUBLIC SEE AND WHAT IS IT BEING TOLD ABOUT LET'S JUST SAY RIGHT NOW WHAT'S HAPPENING, THE FACT THAT ISRAEL IS HOLDING UP AID CONVOYS WHICH IS NOW FORCED.

I MEAN, IT'S JUST SO BIZARRE.

YOUR GREATEST ALLY TO NOW AIR DROP.

THIS IS LIKE A LAST-DITCH, LAST RESORT MEASURE TO TRY TO AIR SUFFERING CIVILIANS UNDER SIEGE BY YOUR COUNTRY.

WHAT -- AND BOMBARDMENT.

WHAT DOES -- WHAT IS -- HOW IS THAT BEING REPORTED INSIDE ISRAEL?

>> WELL, IT IS REPORTED, BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE DEMONSTRATORS WHO ARE TRYING TO PREVENT THE HUMANITARIAN AID TRUCKS TO ENTER GAZA, AND THAT'S NOT REPORTED AS SOMETHING NEGATIVE, JUST AS A NEWS STORY.

THERE IS NO SENSE OF EMERGENCY IN THE ISRAELI MEDIA THAT YOU SHOULD LET THE HUMANITARIAN AID INTO GAZA BECAUSE THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA IS NOT MUCH OF A STORY HERE.

OR WHEN THE NUMBER OF DEATHS, PEOPLE KILLED IN GAZA REACHED 30,000, YOU DIDN'T EVEN SEE THE NUMBER.

I MEAN, MAYBE IT WAS MENTIONED IN THE BOTTOM OF A NEWSPAPER ITEM OR END OF A NEWS PROGRAM.

BUT IT WASN'T THE LANDMARK.

AND WHEN THE HUMANITARIAN CONVOY WAS, YOU KNOW -- >> YES.

>> ALMOST 100 PEOPLE DIED WHEN THEY TRIED TO GET TO THE FOOD.

IT STARTED AS THE IDF SAYS IT WAS THE TRUCK DRIVERS WHO RAN OVER THEM OR WHATEVER.

BUT A FEW HOURS LATER, THERE WAS A TERROR ATTACK IN THE WEST BANK, AND IMMEDIATELY, THAT MADE ALL THE HEADLINES FOR THE ENTIRE NEWS CYCLE.

TWO PEOPLE WERE KILLED, INCLUDING THE ATTACKER.

AND THAT'S -- THAT'S A HORRIBLE THING.

IT'S A HORRIBLE STORY.

BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT BECOMES THE MAIN STORY, THE MAIN DISCUSSION POINT, AND THE NEXT DAY NOBODY EVEN REMEMBERS WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE CONVOY.

IT'S SOMEWHERE IN THE BACK OF THE NEWS CYCLE.

AND THEN PEOPLE IN ISRAEL DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE U.S. MIGHT BE CHANGING ITS TONE OF VOICE TOWARDS US, THE ENTIRE WORLD MIGHT BE ANGRY ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON IN GAZA.

THERE IS THIS GAP OF BASIC KNOWLEDGE ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.

AND WE SEE ISRAELI PUBLIC SEES ITSELF IN THE TELEVISION, IN RADIO, IN THE NEWS ALL THE TIME AS THE VICTIM.

IT BARELY SEES THE OTHER SIDE AS A VICTIM.

AND THAT'S HOW IT FEELS ABOUT ITSELF.

>> AND YOU'VE SPOKEN ABOUT AND OTHERS HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT THE SORT OF DOME OF DISCONNECTION WITHIN YOUR COUNTRY, THAT MOST PEOPLE STILL ARE BEHAVING AND ACTING AND FEELING AS IF IT'S OCTOBER 7th OR THE DAY AFTER.

THE TRAUMA IS STILL ABSOLUTELY, YOU KNOW, BOILING HOT.

IN THAT -- IN THAT KIND OF ENVIRONMENT, WHEN YOU HEAR, YOU KNOW, LET'S SAY THE U.S. OR OTHERS TALKING ABOUT THE DAY AFTER, AND WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN, OREN, IS THERE ANY SPACE GIVEN ON ISRAELI MEDIA?

BECAUSE CERTAINLY YOUR GOVERNMENT HASN'T REALLY PUT OUT A DAY AFTER.

IT'S JUST SAID ESSENTIALLY ENDLESS OCCUPATION.

AND THERE SEEMS TO BE NO PLAN.

AND WE'VE HAD EHUD BARAK ON WHO SAID THE SAME THING.

NO STRATEGIC PLAN FOR HOW TO RESOLVE THE BOTTOM LINE.

HOW IS THAT BEING RECEIVED?

>> WELL, THERE IS CRITICISM OF THE NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT, LIKE THERE WAS CRITICISM BEFORE.

BUT THERE IS SOME SORT OF SEPARATION BETWEEN THE GENUINE CRITICISM THAT THERE IS NO PLAN FOR THE DAY AFTER, AND NO CRITICISM ABOUT WHAT THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE IDF'S BOMBING IN GAZA HAS ON THE CITIZENS THERE, THE POPULATION THERE.

SO THE POLITICAL COMMENTATORS MIGHT VERY WELL BE VERY CRITICAL OF NETANYAHU AND HIS GOVERNMENT.

BUT SOMEHOW IT DOESN'T TURN INTO A REAL CHRISTENING OF THE NECESSITY OF THE WAY THE WAR IS GOING ON.

>> DAHLIA, I WANT TO GET BACK TO -- I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU HEARD ANY PART OF WHAT CARETAKER PRIME MINISTER WAS SAYING ABOUT THE NEED TO HAVE A CONSENSUS PALESTINIAN ENTITY FOR THE DAY AFTER.

AND I WONDER WHETHER YOU THINK THAT HAMAS HAS ANY ROLE IN THIS.

IT SEEMS TO BE LIKE A SACRED COW.

NOBODY ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE CAN CALL OUT THIS TERRIBLE VIOLENCE THAT THEY COMMITTED.

THE FACT THAT THEY ARE STILL SAY SAYING AS YAHYA SINWAR APPARENTLY SAID, LISTEN, WE'RE GOING KEEP GOING AND THE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES ARE GOING TO MAKE THEM STOP THIS WAR.

IT'S VERY, VERY CYNICAL.

IN ADDITION, THE ISRAELIS WHO WERE KILLED ARE BY AND LARGE NOT THE MILITARY, BUT THE CIVILIANS WHO WERE OF A DISPOSITION TO BE MORE PRO-PALESTINIAN RIGHTS AND TO HAVE HELPED IN MANY WAYS.

YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU FEEL PALESTINIANS SHOULD LOOK AT THE CONTINUED POTENTIAL INVOLVEMENT OF HAMAS IN THEIR DAILY POLITICS THE DAY AFTER?

>> I JUST WANT TO MAKE A NOTE REALLY QUICKLY THAT I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO GO BACK TO THE ISSUE OF THIS NOT BEING JUST ABOUT OCTOBER 7th.

THE DEHUMIZATION OF GAZA CIVILIANS HAS ITS ROOTS NOT JUST IN CURRENT TRAUMA, BUT IN A LONG DISENGAGEMENT FROM COVERING PALESTINIAN LIVES.

THERE IS A WILLFUL IGNORANCE AND LACK OF WILLINGNESS TO HEAR PALESTINIAN VOICES FOR MANY YEARS, CERTAINLY SINCE THE SECOND INTIFADA, IF NOT DATING BACK TO 1948.

THE ISSUE OF HAMAS.

ULTIMATELY, I THINK PALESTINIANS -- I DON'T THINK HAMAS IS A SACRED COW.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF HAMAS' STRENGTHS AND ITS VIOLENCE AND ITS, YOU KNOW, POSITIVES AND NEGATIVES, WHAT HAVE YOU.

LIKE EVERY ENTITY, IT PRETTY MUCH LIKE HOW ISRAEL IS, YOU KNOW, ALSO CARRYING OUT THESE ATROCITIES.

BUT FOR PALESTINIANS, I THINK THE REAL ISSUE IS WHETHER THEY'RE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN ELECTIONS.

I THINK THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY WANTED VERY BADLY.

AND THEY WERE REALLY EXCITED, ESPECIALLY THE YOUNGER PALESTINIANS TO PARTICIPATE IN SUCH AN EVENT.

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT HAMAS IS THERE AND ABOVE ANY KIND OF CRITICISM.

I HEAR PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT IT ALL THE TIME.

I THINK ULTIMATELY, WHAT THEY WANT IS VERY SIMPLE.

THEY JUST WANT THE OCCUPATION TO END.

THEY WANT THE POSSIBILITY OF A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, OR A ONE-STATE SOLUTION, IF THAT WOULD EVER HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.

BUT ULTIMATELY, I DON'T THINK PEOPLE'S MAIN CONCERN IS HAMAS.

I THINK PEOPLE'S MAIN CONCERN RIGHT NOW IS THE 30,000 LIVES AND THE FAMINE AND EVERYTHING HORRIBLE THAT IS GOING ON IN GAZA RIGHT NOW.

>> DAHLIA HATUKA, OREN PASCOE, THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THIS INVALUABLE INSIDE LOOK.

>>> TURNING TO THE UNITED STATES NOW, WHERE SUPER TUESDAY NOW IS EXPECTED TO DELIVER THE CLEAREST SIGN OF A TRUMP/BIDEN REMATCH.

WITH ALL EYES SET ON NOVEMBER, THERE IS ONE POWERFUL VOTING BLOC THAT BOTH PARTIES WILL BE TARGETING.

"NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE REPORTER MARCELA VALDES JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THE, QUOTE, AMBIVALENT VOTER AND THEIR ROLE IN THIS ELECTION.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

MARCELA VALDES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU WROTE A PIECE RECENTLY THAT WAS INTERESTING BECAUSE IT WASN'T THE UNDECIDED VOTER WHO IS ON THE FENCE ON WHETHER OR NOT TO VOTE FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN OR FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, BUT IT WAS KIND OF THE -- WELL, THE UNMOTIVATED VOTER, WHETHER OR NOT THEY WOULD GO TO THE POLLS.

WHAT MADE YOU GO AFTER THIS STORY?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT TRADITIONALLY CAMPAIGNS HAVE GONE AFTER THE SWING VOTERS, RIGHT, THE VOTERS THAT GO BETWEEN PARTIES OR CANDIDATES.

BUT AS THE UNITED STATES GETS MORE AND MORE POLARIZED, THE NUMBER OF SWING VOTERS DIMINISHES.

PEOPLE JUST DON'T WANT TO SWITCH TEAMS.

SO WHAT BECOMES MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO WINNING ELECTIONS IS TRYING TO CAPTURE THE VOTE OF WHAT I CALL AMBIVALENT VOTERS.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT VOTING.

THE BIG QUESTION FOR THEM ISN'T SO MUCH WHICH CANDIDATE DO THEY SUPPORT, BUT WHY SHOULD THEY BOTHER VOTING AT ALL.

AND THERE ARE MILLIONS OF THEM.

SO ON AVERAGE SINCE 1920, 42% OF THE AMERICAN ELECTORATE HAS DECIDED NOT TO VOTE.

AND EVEN IN 2020, WHEN WE HAD A HISTORIC TURNOUT RATE, WE STILL HAD MORE THAN 100 MILLION AMERICANS WHO DIDN'T CAST BALLOTS.

SO THERE IS A HUGE AUDIENCE OF POTENTIAL VOTERS THAT THESE CAMPAIGNS CAN FIGHT FOR.

>> SO 100 MILLION.

WHO ARE THESE AMERICANS?

IS IT DEMOGRAPHICALLY ONE, BY GENDER?

RACE?

GEOGRAPHY?

WHAT DO WE KNOW?

>> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I FOUND OUT IN MY RESEARCH FOR REPORTING FOR THIS ARTICLE IS AMBIVALENT VOTERS JUST AREN'T THAT DIFFERENT FROM OTHER VOTERS.

SOME PEOPLE IN THE PAST HAVE MADE A BIG DEAL ABOUT SMALLER DIFFERENCES IN, YOU KNOW, INCOME OR IN EDUCATION.

BUT THE TRUTH IS THAT THEY'RE MORE LIKE THE REST OF US THAN THEY ARE UNLIKE THE REST OF US.

FOR EXAMPLE, A THIRD OF THEM HAVE COLLEGE DEGREES.

ABOUT A THIRD OF THEM ARE WEALTHY.

MOST OF THEM ARE, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SIMILAR RATES OF MARRIAGE OR CHURCH ATTENDANCE OR HAVING JOBS AS THE REST OF US.

SO THIS NOTION THAT THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T VOTE ARE SORT OF POLITICALLY IGNORANT OR APATHETIC OR SOCIALLY ISOLATED IS JUST DOESN'T HOLD UP UNDER A LOT OF SCRUTINY.

AND I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT I FOUND OUT IS THAT THESE VOTERS ARE ACTUALLY PAYING MUCH MORE ATTENTION TO POLITICS THAN PEOPLE PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT.

SO ONLY ABOUT A QUARTER OF THESE AMBIVALENT VOTERS DON'T PAY ANY ATTENTION TO POLITICS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF THEM ARE PAYING SOME ATTENTION TO POLITICS.

SOME OF THEM ARE PAYING A LOT OF ATTENTION TO POLITICS.

SOME OF THEM KNOW MORE ABOUT THE POLITICAL SCENE THAN PEOPLE -- THAN YOUR AVERAGE AMERICAN VOTER.

OTHERS ARE KIND OF TUNING IN AND OUT.

BUT THEY ARE NOT NEUTRAL BYSTANDERS.

>> SO WHY DON'T THEY VOTE, THEN?

ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE PAYING ATTENTION TO SOMETHING, WHY NOT KIND OF FOLLOW THROUGH AND MAKE AN APPOINTMENT OR GET TO THE POLLING STATION OR MAIL IN YOUR BALLOT IF THAT'S AN OPTION, RIGHT?

WHAT MAKES THEM WANT TO VOTE?

WHAT MAKES THEM NOT WANT TO VOTE?

>> SO ONE THING THAT I THINK IS IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE IS JUST VOTING IN THE UNITED STATES IS NOT THAT EASY.

SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE LESS LIKELY TO VOTE IF THEY HAVE TO STAND IN LINE FOR THE POLLS FOR AN HOUR TO BE ABLE TO CAST THEIR VOTE.

VOTING IS NOT -- ELECTION DAYS ARE NOT HELD ON A SUNDAY.

IT'S NOT A NATIONAL HOLIDAY.

SO REALLY, WE'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO TAKE TIME OFF THEIR WORK, TO MAKE A SERIOUS INVESTMENT TO CAST A BALLOT.

AND FOR A LOT OF AMBIVALENT VOTERS, THAT DOESN'T FEEL WORTH IT UNLESS TWO THINGS HAPPEN.

AND ONE OF THEM IS THAT THERE IS A REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CANDIDATES, AND THE OTHER IS THAT THERE IS SIGNIFICANTLY ANXIETY PROVOKING OR DESTABILIZING EVENTS HAPPENING ON THE NATIONAL OR INTERNATIONAL SCENE.

SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN AMERICA ENTERS A WAR, OR WHEN THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE IN THE ECONOMY LIKE A RECESSION OR A PANDEMIC HAPPENS.

WHEN THE CHOICES ARE REALLY CLEAR AND THE STAKES OF NOT VOTING FEEL REALLY SIGNIFICANT, THEN THESE AMBIVALENT VOTERS DECIDE OKAY, IT'S WORTH IT FOR ME TO GO AND INVEST THE TIME AND CAST A BALLOT THIS YEAR.

>> OKAY.

SO THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF VERY IMPORTANT TOPICS COMING UP THIS FALL.

WHAT'S THAT TIPPING POINT BETWEEN THE DYNAMIC WHERE PEOPLE MIGHT BE UNENTHUSED ABOUT THE CANDIDATES VRZ REALLY FIRED UP ABOUT A TOPIC?

>> I THINK THAT THE TIPPING POINT IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO PREDICT.

BUT YOU'RE RIGHT THERE IS A LOT OF WARRING FACTORS GOING ON RIGHT NOW.

SO ON THE ONE HAND, WE DO HAVE THIS HIGH CANDIDATE CONTRAST.

WE DO HAVE A VERY ANXIETY-PROVOKING NATIONAL, INTERNATIONAL SCENE RIGHT NOW.

BUT THERE IS THIS OTHER FACTOR THAT AFFECTS AMBIVALENT VOTERS A LOT, WHICH IS WHEN THEY DON'T LIKE THEIR CHOICES, THEY DON'T ACT.

BASICALLY, IF THEY DON'T LIKE WHAT'S BEING SERVED FOR DINNER, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO COME TO THE TABLE.

AND RIGHT NOW MORE THAN HALF OF AMERICANS ARE EXPRESSING UNFAVORABLE RATINGS FOR BOTH BIDEN AND TRUMP.

AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD REALLY END UP AFFECTING THE VOTE.

AND THE OTHER CHANGE THAT'S HAPPENED SINCE THE LAST ELECTION WE HAD A HISTORIC TURNOUT IS DURING THAT ELECTION, THERE WERE A LOT OF SORT OF TEMPORARY MEASURES TAKEN FOR THE PANDEMICS THAT MADE VOTING A LOT EASIER.

THAT WERE DROP-OFF BOXES FOR BALLOTS, THERE WAS EXTENDED EARLY VOTING THERE WAS NO EXCUSE NECESSARY TO GET A MAIL-IN BALLOT.

I EVEN SPOKE TO SOMEBODY IN TEXAS WHO HAD DRIVE-THROUGH VOTING.

BUT THESE WERE MOSTLY TEMPORARY MEASURES.

AND SINCE THEN, EARLY VOTING HAS BEEN CURTAILED IN A LOT OF SWING STATES.

IT MIGHT BE HARDER TO VOTE THIS YEAR THAN IT WAS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC IN 2016.

>> SO WE NOW HAVE KIND OF AN AB TEST, RIGHT, OF WHEN AND WHERE STATES MADE IT EASIER FOR YOU TO VOTE AND WHAT THE TURNOUT IMPACT WAS VERSUS KIND OF THE STATUS QUO.

I MEAN, WHAT DO WE KNOW THAT ACTUALLY HAPPENS WHEN WE MAKE IT EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE?

>> WELL, WE KNOW FOR EXAMPLE THAT VOTING GOES UP IN COUNTRIES THAT HAVE ELECTION DAY AS NATIONAL HOLIDAY.

THAT'S A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT DOCUMENTED RESEARCH THAT WE HAVE ABOUT THAT.

AND BEING ABLE TO -- ANY TIME YOU LOWER THE EFFORT REQUIRED TO VOTE, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO CAPTURE THESE AMBIVALENT VOTERS, BECAUSE IT BECOMES EASIER TO SAY, WELL, IT'S NOT THAT MUCH OF A HASSLE.

I'LL END UP DOING IT.

THERE WAS A POLL BY 538 THAT FOUND THAT THE PEOPLE WHO NEVER OR RARELY VOTE WERE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO HAVE HAD TO STAND IN LINE TO VOTE FOR MORE THAN AN HOUR IN THE PAST.

SO THAT OBVIOUSLY AFFECTS PEOPLE'S CALCULATION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT'S WORTH IT TO CAST A BALLOT.

CIRCUMSTANCES THERE A BENEFIT TO ONE PARTY OVER ANOTHER WITH MAIL-IN BALLOTS?

>> SO THIS INTERESTING MISCONCEPTION ABOUT THE AMBIVALENT VOTE IS MANY PEOPLE SEEMED TO ASSUME THAT GREATER TURNOUT MEANS BENEFITS ALWAYS THE DEMOCRATS.

BUT THERE WAS A STUDY FROM PEW THAT FOUND PEOPLE WHO VOTED IN 2020, BUT DIDN'T VOTE IN THE MIDTERMS IN 2018 OR THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN 2016, THESE AMBIVALENT VOTERS WERE EVENLY DIVIDED BETWEEN BIDEN AND TRUMP.

SO I THINK IT'S A BIT OF A MISCONCEPTION TO THINK THAT OH, WELL, IF YOU HAVE INCREASED TURNOUT, THAT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BENEFIT THE DEMOCRATS.

NO.

THESE VOTERS, PRECISELY BECAUSE THEY DON'T VOTE THAT OFTEN CAN BE VERY UNPREDICTABLE IN THEIR POLITICAL OPINIONS.

>> SO IN STATES LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, MICHIGAN, WE HAD RESULTS WHERE BOTH DONALD TRUMP AND JOE BIDEN LOST A LOT OF POTENTIAL VOTERS THAT COULD HAVE SUPPORTED THEM.

IN JOE BIDEN'S CASE I THINK THERE WAS MORE THAN 100,000 PEOPLE WHO MARKED UNCOMMITTED, ALMOST A PROTEST VOTE.

AND IN TRUMP'S CASE, A LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE VOTED FOR NIKKI HALEY.

SO ARE THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE SIGNALING TO THEIR PARTIES THAT THEY'RE NOT HAPPY WITH THESE CANDIDATES, COULD THEY BECOME THE AMBIVALENT VOTERS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WHO CHOOSE NOT TO GO TO THE POLL AT ALL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK IN THE CONTEXT OF THIS REPORTING AND RESEARCH THAT I'VE DONE, I THINK THE NIKKI HALEY VOTERS ARE THE BIGGEST WILD CARD OF THIS ELECTION.

I MEAN, BARRING SOME TRANSFORMATIVE TURN OF EVENTS, SHE IS NOT GOING TO GET THE REPUBLICAN NOMINATION.

BUT SHE TOOK, YOU KNOW -- SHE'S TAKEN SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF VOTERS IN SOUTH CAROLINA, IN MICHIGAN, IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

AND THE QUESTION FOR ME IS WHAT ARE THESE VOTERS GOING TO DO AFTER TRUMP WINS THE NOMINATION?

ARE THEY ACTUALLY GOING TO GO OUT AND VOTE FOR HIM?

OR ARE THEY GOING TO DO WHAT SO MANY AMBIVALENT VOTERS DO AND EXPRESS THEIR DISSATISFACTION BY CHOOSING NOT TO VOTE.

>> YOU DON'T HAVE TO NECESSARILY SWITCH TEAMS AND VOTE OUT OF PROTEST FOR THE OTHER IN THIS CASE, GUY, BUT JUST BY NOT VOTING FOR YOUR TEAM, YOU ARE ASSISTING THE OTHER TEAM.

>> IT'S STILL -- IT'S STILL A CHOICE THAT SENDS A MESSAGE, DEFINITELY.

AND, YOU KNOW, NOT CHOOSING TO VOTE CANDIDATE FOR CANDIDATE A OR B IS AS CLEAR AS A CHOICE AS IF YOU HAD CHOSEN ONE OF THEM AND CAST A BALLOT FOR THEM IN A WAY.

IT'S DEFINITELY SAYING -- NEITHER YOU HAVE GOT ME EXCITED.

NOW THERE IS ONE FACTOR HERE THAT COULD BE SHIFTING THINGS A LOT, WHICH IS THAT THERE IS SOME INDICATIONS THAT HAVE COME OUT IN THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS THAT THESE AMBIVALENT VOTERS AND INDEPENDENT VOTERS MAY BE DRIVEN NOT JUST BY THINGS LIKE THE ECONOMY AND THEIR PERSONAL FEELINGS ABOUT CANDIDATES, THAT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF THESE VOTERS MAY BE ACTUALLY STRONGLY ISSUE-DRIVEN.

AND WE SAW THAT IN THE LAST MIDTERMS WHEN DEMOCRATS DID A LOT BETTER THAN EXPECTED.

AND THE REASON WHY WAS BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT OVERTURNED ROE V. WADE.

AND THERE WERE A LOT OF VOTERS WHO WERE CONCERNED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THEIR MEDICAL CARE FOR REPRODUCTIVE ISSUES.

SO ABORTION, MISCARRIAGES, IVF, THESE SORTS OF THINGS.

AND SO WE ARE ALREADY SEEING THIS KIND OF SHAPE THE WAY THE CANDIDATES DO THEIR MESSAGING.

SO AMBIVALENT VOTERS ARE NOT GOING TO BE RESPONDING VERY STRONGLY TO POSITIVE MESSAGES ABOUT THE CANDIDATES, YOU KNOW.

JOE IS A GREAT GUY, DON'T YOU LOVE THE DONALD, THOSE MESSAGES AREN'T GOING TO HAVE A BIG EFFECT WITH THEM.

HOWEVER, MESSAGES ABOUT YOU MIGHT BE LOSING SOMETHING THAT YOU CARE ABOUT, SOMETHING THAT YOU FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT IS IN DANGER.

MESSAGES THAT PROVOKE FEAR AND ANXIETY ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET PEOPLE TO COME OUT AND VOTE, DESPITE THEIR FEELINGS ABOUT THE INDIVIDUAL CANDIDATES.

AND THIS MIGHT BE ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE'RE NOT REALLY SEEING ANY OF THE CAMPAIGNS SELL MESSAGES OF HOPE, YOU KNOW.

THIS YEAR.

>> HOW DOES RACE PLAY INTO THIS?

I KNOW THAT RACES ARE NOT SORT OF MONOLITHIC BLOCKS, IF I TALK ABOUT THE LATINO VOTE, THE AFRICAN AMERICAN VOTE.

BUT DEMOCRATIC PARTY, FOR EXAMPLE, OVER TIME HAS RELIED MORE ON MINORITY VOTERS.

AND THERE ARE SHIFTING DEMOGRAPHICS IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE THE LATINO POPULATION IS GROWING FASTER THAN ANY OF THE OTHER SUBCATEGORIES.

BUT IS THERE KIND OF A DIAGRAM OR A CROSS SECTION OF AMBIVALENCE ACROSS DIFFERENT RACIAL CATEGORIES?

>> I THINK THE MOST SIGNIFICANT GROUP IN THIS CONTEXT WOULD BE THE LATINO VOTERS.

BECAUSE HISTORICALLY, THEY HAVE HAD THE LOWEST TURNOUT RATE OF ANY OF THE RACIAL AND ETHNIC DEMOGRAPHICS.

AND SO BUT AT THE SAME TIME, AS YOU POINT OUT, IT'S A GROWING ELECTORATE.

VERY QUICKLY GROWING.

SO IN THIS YEAR, THERE WILL BE ALMOST FOUR MILLION LATINOS WHO ARE NEWLY ELIGIBLE TO VOTE.

SO EVEN IF 40% OF THEM VOTE, SO 60% OF THEM STAY HOME.

BUT ONLY 40% OF THEM CAST BALLOTS, THAT'S STILL MORE THAN 1.5 MILLION NEW BALLOTS.

THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY PEOPLE TALK SO MUCH ABOUT THE LATINO VOTE AND FIGHTING FOR LATINO VOTE.

ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THIS IS A DEMOGRAPHIC THAT IS VERY COMPLICATED POLITICALLY.

THEY POLL VERY HIGH FOR DEMOCRATS, BUT THE TRUMP SUPPORT AMONG LATINO HAS BEEN GROWING STEADILY.

AND BECAUSE OF THE LOW TURNOUT, WHAT'S REALLY GOING TO MATTER IS WHICH CANDIDATE CAN GET THEIR SUPPORTERS TO COME OUT MORE.

LIKE SURVEYS, THE KIND OF SURVEYS OF OPINION AREN'T NECESSARILY GOING REFLECT WHAT HAPPENS AT THE BALLOT BOX, BECAUSE IT REALLY DEPENDS ON WHO IS WILLING TO STAND IN LINE TO CAST BALLOTS.

AND I SAW THIS IN 2020.

I WAS IN FLORIDA DOING REPORTING A MONTH BEFORE THE ELECTION.

AND FLORIDA ENDED UP GOING TO TRUMP THAT YEAR BY ABOUT 3%.

IT'S NOT A LOT.

BUT WHAT I SAW A MONTH BEFORE ELECTION DAY WAS SERIOUS DOOR-KNOCKING CAMPAIGNS BY CONSERVATIVES TO TURN OUT CONSERVATIVE LATINOS.

THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN DIDN'T DO ANY DOORKNOCKING.

THEY WERE DISCOURAGING DOORKNOCKING BECAUSE OF THE PANDEMIC.

BUT WITH AMBIVALENT VOTERS, THESE KINDS OF FACE-TO-FACE NUDGES MAKE A REALLY BIG DIFFERENCE BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT INCLINED TO TAKE THEMSELVES OUT TO VOTE WITHOUT SOME KIND OF EXTRA MOTIVATION.

>> AND YOU ALSO LOOKED AT LATINO VOTERS IN WISCONSIN IN 2020.

IS THERE SOMETHING WORTH LEARNING FROM THAT?

>> I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE TEND TO THINK OF LATINO VOTE AFFECTING PLACES LIKE CALIFORNIA OR FLORIDA OR ARIZONA.

BUT THIS DEMOGRAPHIC HAS GROWN SO MUCH THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES THAT THEY'RE ACTUALLY AFFECTING ELECTIONS IN PLACES WHERE YOU MIGHT NOT EXPECT IT.

SO THERE WAS A VERY INTERESTING STUDY THAT CAME OUT OF UCLA THAN SAID THAT IN WISCONSIN, LATINO VOTERS MAY HAVE BEEN THE X FACTOR.

THERE WERE -- BIDEN WON THE STATE BY ABOUT 20,000 VOTES.

AND THERE WERE MORE THAN 150,000 REGISTERED LATINOS AND PRECINCTS THAT HAD MORE THAN 50% OF THEIR REGISTERED VOTERS IN THAT PRECINCT.

LATINOS WERE MORE THAN FOUR TIMES AS LIKELY TO GO FOR BIDEN THAN TO GO FOR TRUMP.

IT'S HARD TO SAY ANY ONE THING MADE A DIFFERENCE FOR 20,000 VOTES.

BUT IT'S POSSIBLE THE LATINOS DELIVERED WITH WISCONSIN FOR BIDEN THAT YEAR.

>> WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE KIND OF MARGINS, THESE TINY GROUPS THAT MIGHT BE MOTIVATED THAT SWUNG THE ELECTION, I ALSO WONDER ABOUT THE YOUNGER VOTERS.

AND YOU LOOKED A THE 18 TO 34-YEAR-OLDS IN 2016.

AND HILLARY CLINTON FAMOUSLY DID NOT GET THE VOTE SUPPORT FROM YOUNGER FEMALE THAT SHE NEEDED AT THIS TIME.

HAS THAT CHANGED?

ONE OF THE THINGS WE SEE IN ALMOST ELECTION AFTER ELECTION IS SURE YOU CAN POUR A LOT OF MONEY INTO TRYING TO MOTIVE YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY JUST DON'T END UP COMING OUT WHEN IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

THAT A FALLACY?

HAS THAT CHANGED?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW ONE PROFESSOR I SPOKE TO AT UC IRVINE WHO IS A SPECIALIST IN THIS TOLD ME THE MOST PREDICTABLE THING ABOUT THIS YEAR'S ELECTION IS THE YOUNGEST VOTERS WILL VOTE THE LEAST.

IT'S WHAT'S TRUE EVERY SINGLE TIME.

BUT A LITTLE WEAKNESS IN THIS AREA CAN STILL MAKE BIG DIFFERENCES, ESPECIALLY FOR THE DEMOCRATS.

SO IT'S TRUE THAT THEY TURN OUT LESS, BUT FOR BIDEN IN 2020, ALMOST HALF OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED WHO REPORTED VOTING FOR HIM WERE UNDER THE AGE OF 50.

HE GOT 60% OF THE YOUTH VOTE.

WHEREAS HILLARY CLINTON, BEFORE HAD ONLY GOTTEN 55% OF THE VOTE.

THINGS AREN'T LOOKING SO GOOD FOR HIM THIS TIME AROUND.

IN THE RECENT POLLS FROM GALLUP, THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE BIDEN THE LEAST ARE THE PEOPLE UNDER 34.

SO IF HE LOSES THIS VOTE, WE COULD HAVE AN OUTCOME THAT LOOKS A LOT MORE LIKE 2016.

WHEN TRUMP WON, OF COURSE.

>> MARCELA VALDES, STAFF WRITER AT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" MAGAZINE, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR INVITING ME.

>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, WE REMEMBER TWO CRAFTY CENTENARIANS, THE LEGENDARY IRIS UPFELD PASSED AWAY ON FRIDAY AT 102.

SHE FOUND FAME IN THE '80s WITH HER BIG GLASSES AND BOLD OUTFITS.

AND IF IRIS WAS A TRENDSETTER, THEN JULIE LYNN CHARLOTTE, WHO WAS 101, WAS A TRAILBLAZER.

SHE DESIGNED THE POODLE SKIRT.

YEP, THERE WAS ONE.

IT BECAME A STAPLE IN CLOSETS.

THE FUTURE QUEEN ELIZABETH SPORTED ONE FOR HER FIRST HOEDOWN IN CANADA.

AND NOW THERE IS A CHANCE TO OWN A PIECE OF FASHION HISTORY.

THE SHIRT THAT MADE COLIN FIRTH A STAR AND A HEARTTHROB IS UP FOR AUCTION FROM THE BBC'S "PRIDE AND PREJUDICE" TV SERIES.

MR. DARCY'S WET SHIRT IS EXPECTED TO FETCH THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

AND I'M JUST GLAD IT BHAUNZ IN THIS WET T-SHIRT -- CONTEST.

THAT'S IT FOR NOW.

THANKS FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.